looks good

release date? 2020? :P

if platers were as good as a 1200, I would cop em




nice work
I was going to do a Bryce rendering of something like

I reckon it'd be to big for a controller ... may as well stick with the techy 12's really.
kontrolprodj.com
something like this, without the mixer section obviously, would make a great controller.

why use that when you can use tt?

I'd say 1 reason for me is the no needles and no dirty control vinyl.

Serato/Rane should do a deal with technics.... instead of them releasing another shitty CD turntable just make the ultimate controller for Serato based on the 1200, with buttons like the pics above to control aspects for each deck

Hi guys - Thanks for the responses. This thread was actually made after I posted the same one in GENERAL DISCUSSION because I got confused as to which forum it should go in. Anyway, the other thread addresses the comments/questions you posted here. Here's the thread: www.scratchlive.net

PS: ekwipt, your reason is a good one and one of many why this could be a highly desired product. More reasons are tactile control over RSSLs GUI via aluminum buttons and trackpad/clickwheel in center, impervious to vibrations/skips, one-piece robust construction without lots of individual pieces (ie: tone arms, headshells, cartidges, needles, weights, etc.) - the only moving part is the large spinning platter so you have the hands-on control just like 12" vinyl.

PSS: digital_steve, that controller you pointed out (and all the others) is very toy-like, cramped, and cluttered. Most everyone agrees the WANT the large platter control of a 1200 (or at minimum a CDJ1000).

I think the main reason vinyl stays around is tactile control. The two elements being hands on control of the speed, and needle dropping.

personally I would make the 'label' spin as well. plus a spindle, thats where I control speed with the 1200, mostly.

And I would add a fader to control song position. each notch could equal 1.8 seconds to get a pretty good emulation of needle dropping.

I think that would get you as close to turntables as possible.

AKIEM, I was thinking about this afternoon. Tell me what you think about this: A hotkey that would enable the surface of the platter to be touch sensitive so that wherever you touch it with the tip of your finger it would put you right to that position of the file track (just like needle position). You could even have it where you drag your finger across the platter and it to would variably scroll to those positions with the track. Then just release the hotkey so the surface platter returns to normal (toush sensitive OFF) and back to spinning so you can manipulate it while spinning. Just like vinyl on 1200s.

I think that might be over kill. It might cost too much as well.

I magine a knob placed near where the cart rests now on 1200. each click moves 1.8 or so seconds. that would give you about one groove per click. so it would be sorta like skipping around with the needle.

It's hardly toy-like, it's solid metal and comes with rack-ears.
I dunno about cramped ... maybe more cramped than techy 12's but then that's the point... smaller and portable.
I'm also not sure about cluttered ... it looks like a pretty minimal design to me.

It's cool that everyone (apparently) wants large platter control of a 1200 ... maybe they should try using a 1200.
This device looks like a good solution to me, although the mixer section becomes a bit defunct with SSL.

I'm not a scratch/turntablist DJ, but I imagine those tiny jogwheels on the KONTROL:DJ piece would be useless for them. Not to mention that they aren't motorized either so you would loose the spinning platter "feel" of 1200s. I agree though about the nixer functions being not needed for RSSL users and if they were removed it might clear out some space around the left side pitch fader.

I'd suggest a turntable then.

Looks like someone is starting to get the right idea on this: futuremusic.com

"Starting" being the key word though. It's still a small, non-motorized platter.

More: www.cortex-pro.com

Looks pretty cool. It is definitely critical that the platter be 10"-12" i think, and also motorized.

and stable.


I think Rane should just give in and do it right

dont you guys want to kill your enemies?

I do

I'm all for a "direct" connect controller (no time encoded cds or vinyl). Good start so far Soulsonica :) First thing I'd change is swap the CUE and PLAY buttons. cue should be on left, play on right....and oh move the kill button somewhere else.

Working on some variations now. Will post for Rane inspiration asap.

Bump. Keep this hot. We need an industry standard controller! ;-)

Soulsonica™, put two faders on it, one for speed and one for pitch. we are in the future, and those are two different things now.

I like the idea and the concept images are incredible but I think it's better to use a TT or a CDJ than a controller because you also have the option to play vinyl or cd's just in case you need to. Not to mention, I think most DJ's who use SSL already have CDJ's or TT's and don't want to have to buy MORE equipment.

I think the advantage would be a cheaper platform if it did not have the CD drive and the audio workings. The focus could be on the Rane quality instead, that industry standard type shit. And it could still be a controller for rack mount CD or DVD drives.

Yes, I would also like if there was one created that duplicated the size of the cdj800 also along with the tech1200 size. I wish there was a controller exactly like the pio that didn't need the control cd (and not the POS Numark ICdx, tried it and returned it ) lol

Sounds reasonable to me. The biggest design priority of a Rane/Serato controller to me would be "industrial strength", in contrast to the cheap plastic playtoys offered by other companies. Also servicability (it would be nice, for example, to be able to do easy field-replacements of wear parts like buttons and other controls).

would it be rugged enough to check it on a plane? otherwise we would need cases for them anyway. Also flight cases are the perfect hight to make a platform that sits on top of your average table hieght.

usb linked, to use one port, yes



keeping expense low yes.
But one function that a real turntable has is song position information, you can look at the record and know where you are. I dont think that function should be lost even if you can look at the computer. I would like a P1 type knob that controlled song position, 1.8 seconds per click, which would mimic grooves. And I think (dont know what it would cost but) a song selection display right on the turntable would be a great advantage. If you could select songs from the turntable then you could work without looking at the computer. I think forced reliance on the computer screen is a big disadvantage.

It sounds like you guys may be thinking of, working on platform that also has a mixer on it? I dont think the mixer and turntable should be integrated, unless there is a turntable option without a built in mixer.

I'd still like to see something along the lines of the kontroldj surface kontrolprodj.com but without the mixing section and with some extra knobs/sliders for SSL usage.

The reason for this is space and portability ... if the console is some huge, moving platters, all singing - all dancing console then that's great ... except you won't be able to play out with it.

Decent, touch sensitive, static platters plus all the knobs/sliders needed for ssl in one sturdy, portable unit. Cheaper to make, cheaper to purchase, easier to take out!

if its large moving plater why wouldnt you be able play out with it?

to me, hands on control of the moving plater is the absolute best method for precise control. it is thee best interface possible.

If it's a massive controller then how would you fit it into a booth, which would presumably have pre-existing gear.

Moving platters would be cool, i personally don't think it'd be functional as a 'take out' device is all.

first it would take the place of CDJs if it could control a dual rack mount cd player, second it would take the place of turntables all together.

as much as I love my 1200s and I do mean love, the technology is two decades outdated. and the main thing that keeps them around is hands on precision control. when that can be properly replicated, then there is no further reason for them. outside of the analog sound, dif story.

so, there could be plenty of room in the booth for a controler that takes the place of both cd and tt

I wasnt talking about a replacement, because not everyone used SSL.
I'm just saying if it's to big, it's a pain to carry and it won't fit in a booth that already has decks and cd decks set up.

Firstly, props to Soulsonica. Yes. Yes. Yes. A Rane industrial strength Technics 1200mk3 emulator that can be used to control SSL would be unbelievable. I would buy two of these today if they existed. No issues with needles/ dirt / skips/ dodgy turntables at the club etc. Full vinyl control to SSL via direct control or midi (in v1.8) = please!

NB: If the Rane device supported full midi out then all of the other digital djs (who use alternative software to SSL) could use it with any midi capable mixer = Rane can capture some of that very large emerging market.

I am heading out on tour very soon thru UK,Europe and Australia and would love to be able to bring my own Rane turntables to remove all issues with dodgy decks, needles, etc. It needs to be kept light, but solid, with the same feel as technics 12s. Weight is a big issue - I need to be able to take 2 x Rane Controller Turntables and the TTM57 in one coffin case...

Sizewise, the device should be same size as technics 12s or CDJ1000s. It needs to emulate the feel of turntables very closely if it is going to get any traction with the djs who are used to real turntables. So it needs a full size, spinning platter. Full size does make it difficult to fit in a booth, but if the size is the same as technics or cdj then swapping in/out is possible.

The only company that has come close to this kind of product is the Numark CDX. That device feels great (really great), but there's obviously no direct control to SSL. The potential for the Numark iDX with direct control of SSL was great too, but the iDX platter ain't cutting it. Likewise there are many reported issues with the Vestax VCI... The technology is obviously already out there for control platters - let's please see reliable rane bring it to the booths worldwide.

Mechanically clamping two TTs together into a single, handled device for easy transport and protection of the playing surface is a REALLY great idea. As is the single cable between two TTs so a different single USB/FireWire port connects two TTs to a single computer.

Please keep displays [of song, effect, needle position, etc] off of the control surface (leave it in the software).

Feature request: Physical SSL Cue buttons x 3 minimum.

Pricewise: If it costs more, I am happy to pay more. I know I can trust R.A.N.E. at every gig. Really Always Nice Equipment.

Dave
Flow Dynamics
www.flowdynamics.com.au

I agree with you about everything except:


I believe that at least a 'song selection' display should be included on the deck because it is the only thing you need to operate without looking at the computer.

I think Rane should shoot for a '1200 killer', a post analog standard.

After stability, I believe that the reason SSL has been so successful is 'vinyl simulation' (well because it is vinyl). So that if you are going to replace the 1200 and the CDJ you need to try and take from those the better parts.

For emulating 1200s, I think the two most important elements are the precision of the literally 'hands on the music' control, touching the vinyl. And the ability to skip around the track by lifting the needle. If these two things can be emulated properly, DJs will finally leave the 1200.

plus the ruggedness of the overall platform, which should go without saying if it were to come from Rane.

And it if it could control a rack mount dual cd drive, all bases would be covered.



anyway here is my rendering
i79.photobucket.com


Platter Control Section
The classic Start•Stop, 33/45, maybe I will change them to round in a second rendering.

The Start and Stop knobs control the start and wind down speed of the platter, so you can still get the wind down 'effect' without power down.

The Reverse Platter button. (do not overlook this concept) The platter will spin in reverse, counter clock wise, but the song can still play forward. This probably wont do any good but for new DJs or DJs who can learn to use it in reverse. The idea is that it would allow you to operate with symmetry, one spins clockwise, and the other counter clockwise which my be a more intuitive way to operate.


Song Position
The Song Position knob controls the song position and is indicated by the clock. The original concept was to use a Fader to even better emulate song position. I will probably change that in a second rendering.

Speed/Pitch
Yes, it might look crazy to have two faders but check the reasoning. With Analog Speed=Pitch. With digital the two functions can be the same function, BUT they can be two separate functions therefore there should be separate controls for each. One controls the Speed(BPM) and the other controls the Pitch(Key). I put a couple option switches along side.

Cue Buttons
Same as whats on the 57

Song Crate Selection
Two knobs select the Song or the Crate.
yes this would be limited, but it would make it possible to completely operate the system without the computer GUI. I think that functionality is very important, the further you can get away from the computer keyboard and the gui, the closer you are to emulating the analog method. And better emulation of the analog method increases the platforms chances for universal adoption.

Center Controller
Controls the speed of the platter, perhaps assignable to perform other functions

peep i79.photobucket.com

very nice AKIEM, I hope thy do one similar to the cdj 800/1000 size too. :-)

yup, I always thought they should be 12" but since using cdj, I think 10 or 9 is fine, especially for space.


would you pay extra to select songs and position from the deck? I would, thats worth $100 to me.

Is the platter going to spin like a TT? Or will it be touch sensitive like a CDJ? If it's touch sensitive like a CDJ you should be able to spin it from the sides to speed it up or slow it down without actually "scratching" [just like a CDJ] OR you could use pitch bend buttons.

I think a spinning plater is the ONLY solution.

ok, now i'm starting to like where this is going. Here's my issue....

If it spins, you need to be able to slow down slightly. On a TT you can just rub your finger against the little nubs on the side of the platter. To speed it up slightly, I favored grabbing the spindle and giving it a little twist with my fingers. What will be the solution on this controller? Pitch bend buttons would solve the issue for me. What do you guys think?

yup, I use the spindle to control speed, sometimes the platter edge for more effect. Im thinking that trying to emulate control with the spindle might be too difficult mechanically and take away from sturdiness and accuracy of tracking the disc part.

Imagine if the side of the platter could be made to give the same delicate control as the spindle. Maybe with enough torque, and the right kind of plastic that wont be tacky to the touch it could work right. Ive got some other ideas on that to.

It would be good to be able to adjust the friction, the slip of the disc sitting on the platter, perhaps thats what the center piece could control.

How do you feel about pitch bend buttons?

I could never get them to work for me. I guess people use them, but I think they would rather touch the plater. or I guess use the laptop. what do you think?

well, that was my biggest issue with the technics sl-dz1200's CD player [www.atbmusic.com]

It was easy to slow it down slightly by touch the side of the platter but it was such a bitch to speed it up without spinning the platter too much. Due to this and a number of other issues I had to get rid of them. I've since switched the to CDJ-1000's and do not experience any of those issues.

But the CDJ-1000 and the SL-DZ1200 are two different animals in that the platter on the SL-DZ1200 spins and FEELS just like turntable as opposed to the stationery touch-sensitive platter of the CDJ-1000.

In my opinion, if the platter is going to spin pitch bend buttons are ESSENTIAL. If it doesn't spin, it should be touch-sensitive ON THE TOP but not the side just like a CDJ-1000. For those who are unfamiliar... When you touch the top of the platter you are able to manipulate your track just like a record but when you spin the platter from the side, it ONLY adjusts the speed and/or pitch slightly.

It's the ability to make SLIGHT adjustments that are key.

I agree that if it is static platter (my personal preferance) it'd be nice if the platter was touch sensitive like the pioneer CDJ's.

Akiem I photshoped your controller and added some bits, from already available CDJ's etc....

img511.imageshack.us

I like the loop and the display but I think AKIEM's layout is more conventional in that the buttons are in the same places as on most cd players and TT's

AWESOME! Very glad to hear and see the interest in this. The concept renderings are fantastic. I certainly hope Rane is working on this. Think about it: All the proven benefits of the 1200 without, plus an INDUSTRY STANDARD/BULLET PROOF tool built with features made for the future of digital DEEJAYing, and WITHOUT sketchy needles/tonearms/weights, etc.

Keep the ideas pumping here and keep this HOT.

Can we also somehow incorporate some type of clause upon purchasing these which requires buyers to show proof of a minimum of 5 years DJ experience?

LOL. I wish.

Damn microwave DJ's

Why? The idea behind this equipment doesn't do anytype of magic beat matching. It's still a turntable and you still have to know how to beat match and control your decks properly.

(BTW, I'm over 15 years DJing exoerience, so I'm not biased.

yeah good point

Pitch Bend buttons is a must.

The platter, spindle, and record were not designed to bend the pitch.

i would like to keep it as simple as possible...no reason to have 5 cue buttons---they are on the laptop---same thing will all the knobs that are in the settings.

I agree in keeping it simple, but I also have the desire to keep the laptop as untouched as possible. Essential/basic navigation of the RSSL GUI via the controllers would allow the laptop to just kind of disappear into the background, only visually referencing it for what's on screen (tracks and cover art!) without really having to touch the keyboard at all. I like to keep my hands active on the platters and the mixer as much as possible (not starring at a keyboard/mouse - clickitty, click, click, clicking around).

bump

ahum... not bad this was bumped... never see this one before..

although the ideas are great, i think i would still use a turntable... but just because i really love it... but i would defo buy the akiem versions :)

so, to add some ideas, i would try to do to the controller what the serato guys employed since forever: make it simple...

so:

- use one button to swap crate/file
- use the second button to swap between prepare and file window
- use one button to toggle 33/45 rpm
- use 2 different modes in rev (spins the disk counter-clockwise or spin back letting the music go
- i would use the option switches alongside the pitch/tempo to be assigned by the user... some might want to reset the tempo, others to lock the key
- i'd move the display to the center of the platter - i think it looks very cool on the cdjs and here i wouldn't be much different

:)

:)

I've got some very old CDJs that have pretty good pitch bend buttons on them. It would be quite wonderful to see some pressure-sensitive pitch bend buttons on this thing.
Very interesting stuff, here.

___It doesn't play vinyl records.___

Am I the only DJ who cares about this?

It's ironic that you do considering your screen name is "MIDIhendrix".

Please go back and carefully read through each of the posts on this topic one more time (in this thread and other related threads). The idea behind this type of concept product is specifically rooted in MIDI - NOT vinyl. If you still have a need/desire to play out vinyl, then no, I'm guessing this is not for you.

Bottom line is that this idea is intended for those who still wish to have true turntable type tactile controll, but are not playing vinyl anymore. The benefits are you gain all types of features via MIDI and lose all types problems associated with traditional vinyl/turntable (all of which are covered in detail within the posts).

Blasphemy!

:)
just blutack a tonearm on it midihendrix

Play vinyl records... LOL. You clicked on a title that said "controller" and expect it to play vinyl.

However, a rubber layout with custom buttons (for Hot Cues, Loops) that goes over a turntable would be nice.

yeah that's what i'd thought.

You all are F*ing up the balance.

Rane & Serato have developed that incorporates very little computer; you have all the equipment to completly ditch SSL and be fine without.

its going to take a new product

and the best copy of the 1200 is the MR1200:
www.mono211.com

I've added my own thoughts and ideas to what Soulsonica and AKIEM showed in their images. What I want to have is a controller with a 10"/9" moving platter. It will have a slipmat and a real vinyl which is locked with a spindle lock (similar to Denon). The platter will mimic the feel of the Technics platter. This controller is smaller and easier to transport than a real turntable and it's more stable. You don't have to worry about bad phono cables, pickups, tonearms, calibration and record wear. The movement of the fake vinyl is transmitted to SSL via USB. A set of buttons like those that can be found on the TTM57 SL can for example control cue points and loops. A special fader under the display controls the track position. Instead of using the needle to drop to a position within the track you use the fader instead. The length of the fader represents the whole song. The beginning of the fader will always represent the beginning of the track. So if you load a song and the fader is positioned wrong relative to the playing track. You can pull the fader to the beginning and then be able to position it correctly

My version of the SSL controller! Nothing is in scale and alignment/proportions is not the best. This shows the idea roughly.

img141.imageshack.us

nice work
I like the "fader drop" that would mimic real dropping.
I was going to do that og but then switched to a knob.

Thanks AKIEM!

There are some great ideas in here!

Personally, if their controller didn't mimic the feel of a 1200 platter exactly, I wouldn't fuck with it. Now, I know, some of you are saying, "then stick with your 1200"--and if this thing doesn't have the feel of a 1200, then believe me, I will--but I still think it would be cool to be able to control a lot of the features of SSL with hardware instead of on a laptop (I also think never having to worry about feedback again would be nice).

The point I'd like to bring up is this: what about ditching the laptop altogether? It maybe a drastic move, but if there was some way to interface an ext HD and either incorporate more screen space into the controller OR have a video out so all you need to bring is a small LCD, I think that would be great.

Just a thought...

And getting back to the 1200-feel thing: personally, the ability to speed up with the spindle and slow down with the side of the platter is critical for me. I hate pitch bend buttons :P

yup.

Well, Stanton just released their controller which basically covers everything everyone posted in this thread... enterthesystem.com

Now please, Rane, make one better for SSL!

Better link with all the info for just the turntable controller... enterthesystem.com

wow... thas some crazy shit.. maybe its just me.. but i think i'll stick with my 1200's..

You'll never know probably they are on the process of building one.

Its close, too many buttons for me. one to select the cut, one to select the position... and some cues

close to 'the vision' tho!

RANE?!

RANE should look in this thread and make a better one. Better quality and less buttons with more intuitive control. C'mon RANE!

I think Vestax has released a vinyl turntable that has serato hot keys on it

Looks like Serato decided to team up with Numark...

www.skratchworx.com <- click

Part of me likes to think Stanton and Numark have been cruising this forum for ideas, but another part of me says it really doesn't take a genius to figure out a product like this is needed and given the overwhelming explosion of DVS popularity, it was only a matter of time til we saw it. That being said, the "genius" part now needs to come from someone like Rane because we all know the Stanton and Numark attempts are just that - "attempts", and it's obvious (and somewhat expected) that they have missed the mark right out the gate. We also know that the are most likely sloppily designed, built with inferior materials, and will have a lifespan of about six months. These both look like plastic toys for little boys. Rane needs to build true instruments for real professionals. All that being said, yes, it's many times nice to be the first one out with a new innovative product, it's much more important to be the first one out with one that gets it right. Rane, this is your chance to "get it right". We all know you can!

I think the title says it all.....wait, what?

Pioneer just added their controller to the mix


forums.pioneerdj.com

i don't see any of the products by brands like numark or stanton just attempts - i believe that at some point, someone has to put something out in the market and those first steps are the ones that will dictate a better product in a not so far future...

.. i see them like fashion designers putting in front of us something we all talked for ages but never exactly saw it physically... the same way some bands/artists/producers come up with an innovative sound no one really likes but so many get influences from there and build something audible...

so fair play to them, as more and more brands will follow with better gear as days go by...

I want something that looks like a lump of coal with a motor on it. I want microwavers to reject it because "it doesnt do anything", while it becomes the standard. I want something that is boring, conservative and looks "non-innovative". I want something that flips one switch on the 1200 - from analog to digital, nothing more. Something that realizes -DJing is not about a hundred blinking lights and gadgets, its about controlling the speed of music and not much else except flicking it off and on real fast. My 1200s are going to be looking at two decades pretty soon, and I want the same thing, just the digital version. Assuming theres no format past 'digital' I want the platform that will last the rest of my DJ career. It's Tehcnics arena, and they probably thought they were going to kill it with the CD joint - nope. If they are scared to do it - RANE step up! its yours now. Really Im disappointed it wasnt done several years ago, could have been. Analog is out, digital is in, so why do I still have 1200s (30+ year old tech) under my hands, why are they still standard???? that is the only question that needs to be answered!!! when you know the answer to that question - you control the whole market and the future!!!!!!!!!!!

and I forgot to add that I want the resale value to be about $20 less retail.


okay, and if you have to, put a midi card in it so you can plug however many button gadget in next to it. you can do that right? chain usb midi through it?

Amen.

If Technics (Panasonic) was real smart and paying attention to what's going on, they could actually be the one to capitalize bigtime and pull this off as well by taking their already time tested proven foundation and building upon it for this digital age. The core is already done for god's sake, just update it.

Zzzzz.

PS: The whole "blinking light wiz bang ufo arcade game" nonsense route so many manufactures have chosen to go down is one major reason I respect Rane (and a few other like-minded companies) so much because they have shown to be consciously aware to steer free of such gimmickery. Geez. People (mainly kids) are so easily impressed. Idiocracy.

Just saw this bizarre press release and am blown away: www.numark.com

" NUMARK AND SERATO ENTER STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP
Collaboration to Deliver New Class of DJ Hardware and Software Interactivity

Cumberland, R.I. (Jan. 17, 2008) – Numark, the world’s leading manufacturer
of products for the DJ market, announces the formation of a strategic
partnership with Serato, the world's leading provider of DJ software. The
agreement marks the first joint effort between Serato and Numark, and
promises new levels of performance for DJs.

Numark and Serato have combined forces in an effort to drive the integration
of high-performance software and hardware into the DJ experience. With its
time-tested legacy of innovation, Numark has leveraged its ability to match
its highly recognized hardware expertise with Serato’s software prowess.
Together, Numark and Serato have created a powerhouse DJ software and
hardware combination.

The results of the Numark and Serato strategic partnership can be seen in
person January 17-20 at Winter NAMM 2008 booth 6400 in Anaheim, CA. Of
particular note, the new product—Numark’s NS7 motorized software
controller—is completely unique to both companies. Officials of Numark and
Serato were quick to point out that the NS7 is a first-of-its-kind DJ
software controller. With extremely high resolution real vinyl control, the
NS7 achieves the most accurate and precise software control available. An
integrated high quality audio interface locks to the included Serato "Itch"
DJ software to deliver the best possible sound.

Numark's new alliance with Serato will usher in a new era of DJ software and
hardware from both companies. "

Why in the hell would Serato choose to get in bed with what is quite possibly one of the world's cheesiest DJ gear manufacturers is beyond me. It's like Rolex deciding to partner up with Swatch to make all of their watch bracelets. Slippery slope here. :::shakes head:::

Serato and Numark???

Akiem shakes his fist at the gods

Can't get a single page on this to open, right now. Is EVERYONE on this?

Loading fine here. The text from it was copied/pasted above if you still can't open though.

wtf?

(in huge letters): |–––>>> A M E N ! <<<–––|

.

www.scratchlive.net

you are describing classic djing.

djing these days is a lot more about controlling the speed of a record!!

You're right, it is - but I think you might be confused on what Akiem is saying here in regards to what we want THIS PARTICULAR DEVICE to do/not do. Other "modern" aspects of DJing can be handled by other devices, but the actual controller of the digital world we are all begging for should be just that, "a controller" and nothing else. Professional, bulletproof, minimal, standardized. Cheap plastic toys with dozens of flashy lights and fly-by-night gizmos are 1) for kids/hobbiest and not professionals, and 2) are not long-term industry solutions.

Hope the Godz are watching over us.

So a controller the size of a regular piece of vinyl, has a start and stop button and maybe reverse?

how about 'reverse forward' - the plater rotates counter clock wise, the music plays forward.

now you're just trying to mess with me

no really, if there where an option, some people might prefer counter clockwise rotation. probably kids just starting, not trained yet.

think about it, direction is a limit of vinyl.

I happen to think, if I were just starting and had the option, I would set one deck clockwise and the other deck counter. perfect symmetry.

I would even take that further and give the decks symmetric controls and a mirror map option.

I was going to do that with my original drawing but went simple to start, the independent pitch/speed control was enough.

I guess the turntable is just well engrained standard on the DJs mind.

Is 12" actually needed to make the control platter worthy?

Do we need the spindle in the middle?

There will be no needle....so you are taking away a fundamental element from turntablism?

If there is a pitch slider will it control the speed of the moving platter as well as the software? A rotary encoder could do quick movements plus it could be easier to do finer pitch adjustments and then have two pitch up/down buttons for nudging the tracks in the mix. (rather than running your finger on the side of the platter)

For good reason. how many mechanism are there that could represent movement of audio? A spindle, a belt loop, wire loop. Its a good thing the Victrola plater overtook the spindle thing, imagine carrying boxes of a hundred spindles to the set.

The flat plater must be perfect it has been around since before electricity, outlasted magnetic tape, digital tape, digital discs, and the shit is still right here with us in the laptop age. I call that perfection.


If we are talking about a permanently installed deck instead aiming for a portable deck, I would say go for the 12. It could still be smaller then the record player, no need for the tone arm. I think we could get buy with 10 because it would work with most DJs sweet spots, maybe. I cant really imagine 7 being good for anyone other then DJs who normally work with 7. If any one believe 7 is enough why not 6, or 4 and you see where that lead. I guess 12 is harder to make a stable platter, but....




yes


I dont think so. What function do you loose? What tricks need the needle? lift=cut, some rubber band sound coming off it, what else? I cant think of very many tricks that the needle lets you perform.

Look what Turntablism could gain in return; use of the entire plater, reverse forward, more heavy handed tricks.

I think needle dropping could be approximated well enough with a rotary song position knob. And to make it more true, a song position fader to get that x/y axis feeling of needle drop.




I think people would appreciate the pitch slider controlling the speed of the actual platter, but I bet we would be fine without it. I guess that would save us money, the motor would need only spin at 33 (unless enough cats are dead bent on 45). The pitch could be wire only. We could have a make it switch between +/- 16, 8, 4 or whatever for finer, less finer. One function I had in mind for the two sliders, they would be assignable, one could be course and the other fine. You could put a curve on them. How about key steps?

Two of them because in the digital age Pitch and Speed dont necessarily need to be the same thing. One controls speed and the other controls pitch. (my old ass would leave it connected tho I cant even fuck with pitch lock)

A rotary could be used, is a fader nostalgia?

personally I dont think it needs any buttons, put all the buttons on mixers or extra box things, maximize standard. The only reason for buttons on the actual deck is for the sake of proximity to enhance performance. So aside from the essential start/stop pitch, hell them two, we could have several well placed buttons, rotary and fader, ALL completely user assignable. You plug in your laptop and all the buttons conform to your personal assignments.

I think I will start advocating for a pure symmetry that would allow for mirrored decks.

I think in the future the standard will eventually evolve into one deck only, engage whichever virtual deck you mean to manipulate, But features such as 'reverse forward' and 'mirrored functions' could help keep two decks around (wink to the bottom line people)

hey, can anyone tell me if i stop building overviews half way will i be able to continue from where i stopped?

boogieb, no. But you could post in the Help section... or even better search the forum... or even better better... read the manual?

This is grown man talk, your question is OFF TOPIC, so please husssshhhh and keep it moving :)

the 'needle dropping'/'track postion' horizontal fader looks like it'd have to be motorized: not keen on the idea.
i'd suggest using a scanning laser diode head (readily available CD player technology) cleverly mounted in the spindle or perhaps where the popup light used to be (or the two points in tandem): projecting the trajectory & location of the needle point across the vinyl & perhaps a joystick or rotary encoder instead of the pivoting positional tonearm.
If the scan & refresh rate was fast enough, the vinyl top is the display; cuepoints, loop regions, text... porn & all! :)

^^^^kinda like that tascam thing that will let you scratch with a slipmat

how about this?
i79.photobucket.com

The science behind this one is symmetry.
The symmetry allows for mirrored operation which means what is on the left side on the left deck is on the right side on the right deck and so on.

Software controlled switch selection, profile saved on your laptop.

Plater Clock Wise(normal) / Counter Clock Wise / Mirrored.

Fader controls Pitch+Speed(normal) / Pitch / Speed

And lots of buttons for people who like buttons.

not kidding on the lots of buttons thing!
Jesus!

personally, I dont think it really needs any buttons, but you might as well put them on there if you have open platform. As long as they arnt blinking and shit they shouldnt bother you if you dont use them. But notice how they are placed, at the top in a row if you like them close to the plater, perfect for cues. And at the bottom in twos for start/stop, up/down, etc. type actions.

for me the left hand fader would get in the way of my hand when i'm bending the platter as i tend to rest my hand on the deck
yeah... lots of buttons are annoying
I say buttons for play/stop like the technics 1200... buttons for for the cues, pressable rotary pot for tune selection/deck load, pressable rotary for autloop length selection/loop. maybe 3 buttons foor manual loop in/out/reloop... personally i'd just stick with auto loop

Have it set up as only one deck as well... you can control both decks via input reverse. you could possibly add a button on the deck for input reverse

Even cleaner/more minimal setup

I got so hyped about a REAL CONTROLLER that I went ahead and started trying to transform my 1200 into a digital solution. (made the mistake of starting at 3AM)

photo
i79.photobucket.com
i79.photobucket.com

video
video.google.com





preemptive:
yes, I know that I 'ruined' the deck
-Ive got three sets of 1200s

no, I dont think you should mount buttons on a 1200 and expect good tracking
-this was for the fun of it and illustration

no, I dont think this mod is a real solution
-A real solution would be standard, Im not carrying my decks, Ive got a 57 to carry

Cool Akiem, thinking outside the square. nice one

Cool...

Super DIY Kudos Akiem. Nice crack it man.

Wake up Rane. The future DJ world is your oyster, just sitting there waiting for you to take it.

AKIEM: Ya know 12 of those buttons will fit in the area where my [start/stop button] USED to be, haha :)

Next thing I'm thinking about is modifying the Post assembly that accomodates the stroboscope/Power on/off switch.
Don't play 7'' jukebox records anyway so that adapter holder is gonna be something else. In goes the Midi Over USB, 2 PC keyboard ccts & a USB Hub. Done!

word, lets see it

now, Im dreading doing the next table because I know how long it takes now, :(

(maybe a REAL controller drops first!!!!)

Akiem, any possibilities of a guide of the mod? I would do it in a heartbeat if I had some guidance. The guys in the machine shop @ school could whip up something crazy.

wow the akeim is king for also yous do a mods in the sl1 insides the 56 mixer wears the piktures for it i likes

I just made a new thread for it
scratchlive.net

yes, I can talk you through it. I dont really have flicks of the inside, but its pretty easy to describe.

thanks soon-2-be-ex-FS2user, you're the king too! (of something, er... I guess)
hahaaa

I totally disagree that you've ruined the deck, with the right buttons, tracking wouldn't suffer.

maybe, I thought about using some type of spring standoff things, but I dont know how the buttons would feel. as it is right now, you cant tap them as hard as on the 57 without problems

yeah. maybe some rubber standoffs.

another rendition
i79.photobucket.com

With this one the focus is on making it usable for both turntable and cdj users. and again aiming for a 'standard'

three modes
Analog(vinyl)- The pitch fader controls the speed of the plater. The software is controlled by the movement of the vinyl. like analog turntable

Digital(CD)- The software is controlled digitally precise by the pitch fader seting, not the speed of the plater. This gives you the CDJ digital precision. The movement of the vinyl would have whatever breaking/accelerating digital effects set by the parameters.

Hybrid- The pitch fader controls the speed of the plater, but the software ignores the movement of the vinyl and is maintained by the digitally set speed of the pitch fader. If a great enough difference between the digital setting and the actual movement of the vinyl is detected, digital control is overridden and the software is controlled by the vinyl movement.

What this means is that the speed is determined precisely by the pitch fader. If it is +2% the software will play at precisely +2% regardless of any analog wow/flutter imprecision. This is the appeal of the CDJ. But if you touch the vinyl, it will kick into analog control. The software would monitor the vinyl movement and kick into analog when a big enough difference is detected between the analog movement and the digital control.

This would be the best of both systems, CDJ like digital precision and analog control when needed.


sticker system
The vinyl has a pre-marked 'sticker' that marks the software play head (just like putting a sticker on real vinyl). The LED array around the edge would mark the cue points. turntable style

Flip the vinyl and there is no 'sticker'. The LED display would light up moving around marking the play head. 12 o'clock would be the cue point. SSL style.


3 analog output modes

1. outputs the right or the left virtual deck only, two decks and a mixer style.

2. outputs virtual deck one and two through separate channels, one deck style.

3. outputs virtual deck one and two through the same one channel, itch style.


By having the audio return to the deck and output analog as if it were an SL-1 or an itch device you are able to use whatever mixer you choose which I think is important for finding a standard solution.


This deck has a has a default settings stored in its memory, when you plug in your computer it loads your settings, no need to switch all types of stuff when you play on someone else decks.

Very close... I'd need more assignable, medium-sized buttons though. Those tiny ones would be extremely annoying, especially in the dark.

what if they glow or have a title that is backlit? that would make it easier

Easier to see perhaps, but not to press. If they were just a bit larger...

glowing buttons, flashing lights all that yeah.... its Rane Like

but what do you guys thins about the modes 'Hybrid'?
or the audio returning to the deck?
or cues lighting up?

www.skratchworx.com

AMEN to that!

It would be be pretty cool if thats why they are killing the 1200 (far from a good bet)

i looks kinda like a turntable turned ipod... I think it's a great idea though. it should atleast be a 10" platter. did Rane or serato respond to any of these concepts?

I don't get it... if the platter were accurate with its movements in relation to the program (and why wouldn't it be?), what purpose would this mode serve?

Even accurate motors suffer from wow & flutter.
en.wikipedia.org
Also digital control of the pitch is more accurate then analog, especially when matching by number.

these things seem to be what keeps CDJs from using turntables.
scratchlive.net

this would be the best of both worlds, digital precision for the pitch control, and analog control to the touch

aiming for a standard

What do you think about the Vestax VCI 300?

I think the jog wheels are small and static.

Holy delayed reactions, batman!

will the allen & heath xone 4d work with serato?

Yes but not he soundcard, you need a sl1 plugged into it

I think I would be great if serato software implementet a internal mixer, so you can use 1 channel to output and the other for headphones.

This way you could use and Midi controller and not carry any Mixer or tt's.

I love TTs, but I'm getting old of carrying it.

cheers!

+1 Padu, it's definately the way of the future

-1 I hope SSL attempts internal mixing; its not the purpose of the software...

and lugging the coffin everywhere keeps me in shape!

ok I will try to speed things up!

+1 two individual decks Rane yes

Watchwww.youtube.com

I'd like to see a modular, jog-less (Twitch like) unit

Maybe they will make it now.....

:/

So how'd that work out?

Still kinda slow.

Lmao what'd ya set a date in your calendar to remind you to post in this thread :)

no, but this time I was looking for something else :)

😂

🤣

🤣

:-D

LOL

Shh! The bots are gonna find us!