M44-7

I love my m44-7's

you will get tons of people saying m44-7s. they are great, i used them for a majority of my dj career. the only problem i have with them is the dust build up. so i recently switched to white labels and ortofon pinks and i have not looked back.

me too, i have 4 cause they so good.

"Ortofon Concorde S-120 Cartridge Kit -299.99
www.guitarcenter.com

dont waste your money on these. not worth it. and the stylus replacements are 55$

shure m447s are the cheaper and obvious choice.

m44-7

I use the Shure SC35C

soundapproach.com

I love my whitelabels, sound great with regular vinyl and track perfectly in SSL. 44-7s are great needles as well though. The dust buildup does drive me crazy using them.

I'm actually considering purchasing the Shure WHLB as I found them on sale for $74.00. But really I am in the learning stages with turntables, and not sure if I want to speak $150 on cartridges.

SHURE WHLB FTW!

i think I'm going with the m44-7's, they are all around great needles, thanks for the comments!

M44-7s are great! But as everyone may know from using them, the dust build up is pretty extensive.
The concord style cartridges may have connection problems which is a bummer because the whole cartridge has to be replaced which is by itself as expensive as, if not more than, the stylus.
I'd go with the OM style cartridges for concord or stick with the classic M44-7s.

I can run my 44-7's for 4 hours without cleaning the needle. I just have to remember to do it at the beginning of each show.

ok, now what about the 44G vs 44-7?

I have both the 44G and 44-7. The 44G sound a bit quieter and cleaner than the 44-7s when put at the same output level (Sound is very subjective, so keep that in mind). I put 44G on my left and 44-7 on my right TTs for about an year. The 44G gave out sooner than the 44-7 even though I scratch mostly with my right TT. When the 44G is in need of replacement, you can instantly tell by the sound quality and the tracking. The 44-7 will last longer, even with extensive cutting. . .

44-7's and the q-bert's.

Scllab, thanks for the info, i have been using stanton 500's the past five years so pretty much anything other then those will be an upgrade... 44-7's are on the xmas list...

+ 1

Ortofon Nightclub OM S mounted on the Technics headshells

had these for 15+ years, just keep buying new styli

I stick with the M447's but if you're really budget conscious get the SC35C's. They were the standard before the M447's and sound better. The only benefit that the M447's have over them is less record wear.

For basic playing around and occasioanal club use (I'm not a heavy scratcher), would Stanton 505.V3's work ok?

i have used the Stanton 500's for about 5 years now, they don't get daily use, but it seems ever since i put everything in the coffin last year they don't hold there grove as well, and heavy scratching will make it jump, after watching qbert last night i broke out sir scratchy seal and after 10 minutes i got annoyed by the skipping, the needles are super worn and all sorts of bent, hence the reason why I'm finally getting new needles... but for the price i really haven't had any complaints, and i have used them for gigs...

Cool... I had a set of M44's i had for about 3 months, used them like 8 times then sold them to a friend who needed them... and i use cue points a lot (so there's not a lot of pick up and needle drop anyhow).. i finally bought a set of 1200's of my own and now i have no needles.

+1

M44-7 :)

Hey all, I'm new here (and to Djing in general). Been digging around but haven't found an intro thread, if there is one, sorry for posting this paragraph here. Thanks for having me, please excuse my green-ness, I'll mostly be a fly on the wall at first but I do have some questions.

Most of my music is MP3 (70gb@+-192kbs), but I also have a crate of vinyl.

Generally speaking I've read that people like OM cartrages, more specifically q-berts, Ortofon pinks, Digitrack's, with some others peppered in. I read here that people are really liking the Shure M44-7's...

I've got one Vestax PDX-2000, with another on the way. The one on the way's going to need a needle...

Will I be happy with any of the needles I've listed in this post? Should I be looking for something specifically? Should I get one, or a set and use the concorde I already have as a spare?

Thanks in advance,

-Ryan

Hey Ryan!

Welcome to the forum and congratulations for starting a great hobby. If you are just starting, I recommend that you don't focus on the cartridges too much. You don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for cartridges and end up not pursuing this hobby. I'd recommend you get the same cartridge -- at least for now -- and focus more on the technical aspects of dj'ing.
This is the typical answer you would get. But if you want the real answer, I'd say go with the OM style, especially the M44-7's. The concord style is more expensive than the OM headshell mounts. The concord also have common connection issues. Once having this issue, you'll need to return it (if the store lets you) and get a replacement concord. What a hassle! However, for the OM headshells, a common connection issue can be solved by replacing the colored connection wires which come in two pairs for each cartridge purchase! The OM headhshell also gives more freedom for DJs to apply their own personal preference as they could control the degree created between the headshell and the cartridge.
Overall, M44-7's are classic! But as with any DJ equipment, the price is not cheap. The M44-7's will last you a long time. Mine lasted for about 9 months with extensive scratching. The M44-7's also have very low record wear so you'll be saving your favorite vinyls.

This is my opinion so take what you'd like.
The important message you should take from this is that you should be committed and should focus more on the technical aspects rather than the equipment aspect to become the world's #1 DJ! DJ'ing requires a lot of commitment and patience. GOOD LUCK! Hope to hear good news from you soon. And welcome once again.

+1

scllab and Maskrider,

Thank you. Although I don't plan on being fantastic, or even being able to call myself a DJ, I'll definately be putting more energy into this hobby. I began about 5 years ago but had to drop it because college demanded more attention, and as with any hobby, it's not cheap.

If anyone has advice on where to begin a more formal education from reading about topics online, I'd be very interested in how-to's or sites with a focus on n00bs as apposed to clogging up threads here asking questions.

Thanks again for the advice guys,

-Ryan

no worry's it gives us something to do while at work all day! but seriously, you don't need the best cartridges starting out, when i started with vinyl i had some really crappy gemini belt driven decks with the worst needles on earth, but i taught myself how to scratch and rock a party with those (nightmare btw) when i finally sold those (thank god) i got a pair of stanton st-100's with stanton 500's carts and that has lasted fine for the past 5 years, now that i have started gigging again and out of lazyness of leaving the carts on in the coffin... take yours out btw, they are all sorts of bent and really don't hold the grove anymore, i could replace the styli, but with a bun in the oven i have a feeling that my djing expenditures are about to be severely cut so I'm getting what i can now and give ideas out for Xmas... you don't need the best stuff to start out, its kinda sad that fewer and fewer peoples first mixers are not from radio shack... those were the days...

M447 with M44G tips. Try it you'll be surprised

Hey Ryan, you could just go on youtube and search for it. Not trying to be an ass or anything but it's really easy to search for tutorials. I personally like watching ellaskins on youtube. Not much for the learning part anymore but he's very funny. VERY FUNNY. He's also well versed in most, if not all, DJ equipment. He posted reviews and tutorials on both equipment use and DJ techniques. This isn't a advertisement -- just a friendly suggestion (but what's the difference right?).
You could also check out the book, How to DJ Right: The Art and Science of Playing Records by Frank Broughton and Bill Brewster. I suggest you go to your local bookstore and read a few chapters there with a grande Americano from Starbucks (or another bookstore coffee shop if Starbucks didn't take it over YET). The book is a pleasant read. It's my staple book for the restroom and I seem to learn new things every time I let loose. I loved reading books and watching videos for learning and I could tell you that nothing compares to actually doing what you've read or watched. As my Biology professor states, "Read the book, watch the animations, do the homework and you'll get an A"



That sounds too good to be true...

www.instrumentpro.com

Youtube is your Friend so don't you forget about it.

Best.Needles.Ever.

Clean loud sound for vinyl or CV, closest match to the 680HP

i like Ortofons... Concords...

right now i'm using one Nightclub and one Qbert.

Thanks for the leads all

I really appreciate it

Though most of it has to do with my shitty maintenance, I've been thinking of trying something else other than the 447. The dust build up on that thing drives me crazy and I'm constantly removing dust from it. I think I will give the white labels a try since it seems good alternative.

I was a nothing but 44-7 man for years... then around 1996 I started getting into dance music, and while Id still cut, it was drastically reduced how much it happend.

other things started to come into play with needle selection (pre-DVS)

*sound quality.
The 44-7 just didnt have it compared to the 680...
Pretty much why Shure dropped the 35x...which is an amazing needle.

*cue burn.
top40/hiphop 12" are 4.99-7.99 each and can be scooped up anywhere, I used to
do alot of my single shopping at newbury comics....Dance records, some cost as
much as 30.00 or are more on the rare side (say for that unreleased white label)
the last thing you want to do is make those records unplayable by dropping
a heavy drill of a needle in the groove and chewing it all up

*delicacy & longevity
One reason I veered away from the 35x & 447 was my recognition of my own
stupidity...I think Ive given shure over the years hundreds of dollars thanks
to my: watch, sleeve.finger, record edge, midi controller... you name it
catching the side of that stylus that floats our there in the breeze and yanked
the hell out of it, bending it, rendering it useless.
Ortofon had seemed to solved this with the guards around their styli,
as well as an longer headshell handle.

for a beginner Id recommend a Ortofon, they have taken the guess work
out of alot of the fine calibration of balancing the tone-arm...
if you mount their needle, mid line on their headhsell its THIER recomended
balance. (which for some is a tad "light")

as mentioned ALWAYS go with OM style.
I really cant think of a good reason for concorde unless the companies start making
the interface for the tone-arm ring rounded (like the headshells) and not flat
[which results in endless connection problems, and broken rings from over-tightening)

having said all that...we are NOT in the PRE DVS world anymore.
I carry a pair of 35xs (which stick as well as 447s but sound like 680El)
but they are the most fragile needles out there...
I carry the ortofon OM mount Digi-carts.
they put out a very HOT signal, and will chew through your cvs faster (like the 447)
but if your comfortable buying new CVs every few months (which, why shouldnt we be???) than I think its a good option...
The ortofon carts are really almost interchangable for DVS use.
some migh stick a tad bit better than the next, but not much!
they all chew records, and all have high-output with decent stick.
so, unless your dropping real wax dont kill yourself over that stuff.

at the end of the day the best advice I can give is ALWAYS ALWAYS have a backup
pair of needles, and at LEAST one pair of backup styli at AL TIMES!
no matter what you use!!!

i think alot of the 'dust buildup' problem with 44-7 is a 'your turntables arent set up properly' problem. your cutting the cv up, but you think its dust.

alo of the dust is actually a matter of using the same record for hours.

as we all know there is a magnet in the 1200...that's 1 contributing factor.

if you are using a felt slip mat, every time you slide the record across it
it generates static electricity, X2 if you have a plastic sheet.
so thats another reason.

add those two to the already dusty nature of a dj booth
(take a look at a back of an amp rack that isnt cleaned weekly...you'll
see what I mean)

this is a recipe for dust-disaster.
I tried groove glide for a month, and all that does is hose-down the dust and turns
it into GUNK.

heres my dust proof plan"
1. groove glide no more than once a month.
and after applying let your needle ride the entire groove 3-4 times.
(this digs out all the dust you just turned to gunk, and then rubbed it in with a
cloth disc)

2. use the start track from 1st cue point option
this allows you to start you tracks from 1/2 way into the cv.
this will force you to pick the needle up more often (if you arent after every
track anyways!)

3. swipe it/
it doesen't take Chris Angel to perform the slight of hand to clean the shit
off your needle after every track. as your bringing your needle back
to the mid-point of the record slide your finger across the styli removing
and excess gunk...dont go all Consuela' on it...but just whats obvious.

4. wipe me down.
every couple of tracks, take the record off the platter and wipe it down
real quick...even if its with your shirt.
this will break that static charge building between your slipmat and record
and give you a fresh clean slab to work with.
(you know its bad when the slipmat, and sheet comes up with it)

it might seem like alot to do...written out like this.
but most of it I do without even thinking about it now-a-days and its has killed
my dust issue...or at least brought it to a sloooow crawl

m44-7

various Ortofons. right at the moment i've got a DJ-S with a Qbert stylus on one side and a Nightclub S on the other. I've got a fresh pair of Qberts incoming though so the others will be relegated to backup status.

M44-7

If you keep 5 grams on them dust doesn't interfere with serato.

But most people will tell you not to put that much weight on them. but i need the EFFING needle. to stay in the effing groove.

Mines stay in the groove at 3 with no problem

look at the height of the tone arm or you have some heavy ass hands. use vinyl break records for a while to recalibrate those hands. playing in relative mode can make you lazy.

M44-7

I see there are no s-120 fans?

you may find 1 or 2 here

I use these as my primary and M44-7 as my backup

I perfer the Ortofon Concords over the M-447. Like what was posted earlier the 44's build up dust way to easy.

i love my m44-7 ..... i use Ortofon Concorde s .... as my back ups

s120s are extremely overpriced, and since you are using these for cv and not real vinyl, why spend that much money?

44-7's.. While on the subject, the guys using technics headshells, what do you use to protect your needles when transporting them? I just switched from cdjs and I'm having trouble finding a case.

When I bought my 44-7's, they came in a little plastic tube each, I just used a single plastic tube for both (they snap in the endcaps).

the shure blue cart case

co-sign.

a MUST HAVE, unless u buy a package from ortofon,
then they give u a case

ive got the Shure Blue Cart Case too. it's nice but it doesn't work so good for the Ortofons i use. i get by though.

My hands are good, I'm just saying that if you keep your needles heavy, dust wont stick to them, atleast not as much. or none.

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll use those tubes. I still have them. Just never looked at them closely to realize they snap in the caps.

BE CAREFUL with those.


They come open really easily, and can ruin your needles. If your transporting them, dont just throw them in your bag. put them like, in the front or side pocket of your backpack

Yes yes yes! I sold them a while back but I forgot all about that... Also you might consider gluing the plastic holder to the ribber cap, because it can pop out inside the tube.

T

Thats a WAAAAY good idea. I think im going to do that withen the next 20 minutes.

Cool.. Thanks again!!

The Ortofon OM Scratches are my favorite by far. I've used em all, including the 44-7s

m.guitarcenter.com

do concordes significantly build less dust than OM?

Hell yeah. I've destroyed a pair of needles like that once this year already, and have had several close calls.

Needed to get some new needles for back-up.Got a pair of the S-120's and have been breaking them in for the last week. Putting maximum weight on the them and leaving them on vinyl for over 24 hours.

My review after 2 days of djing with them: They still don't hold as good as M44-7's, It also takes a lot more weight to get them to stay in the groove.

The cantilever on the m44-7 is longer, so it has more suspension/ more forgiving than the S-120.

A majority of everyone here spins in Relative mode, so a needle skipping every so often isn't too bad. But when you're trying to scratch, it is very noticeable.

m44-7's /thread

I might be the only one here using Stanton 890, but I also have Ortofon Qbert and om nightclub. Also using Stanton Groovemaster. My choise would be Stanton 890. It's perfect for mixing and scratching better than Ortofon Qbert. When I play out I strictly use Stanton 890.

m44-7's when i had vinyl, now its s-120s. Difference? not much mang.

Just got a back-up pair of M44-7's, putting the S-120's for sale.

Can't front. I've recently came up on a pair of the Ortofon Q-Berts & I haven't looked back at my M44-7s since. Completely skipless & a ultra-high output for the win.

Do the Q-berts really skip less then the m44-7s?

the biggest hurdle to get over with ortofon is breaking them in, and getting a proper amount of weight on the headshell.

my boy uses those blue OM ortofon "DJ"
has since like 99 or something....
those damn things dont move. but he has them SOOOO heavy
they chew through records like a hot knife through buttter.
I think he has the Technics headhsell, with that extra square weight tied in.

the thing is, if you look at all the shure headshell mounts they all have that lever
design, so it allows the styly to move in both x,y & Z directions

where as the ortofons really only move on the x/y (left and right) becuase
of the short, flat styli... which is ideal for the average scratch cat.
but sometimes doesent have enough give for certain cuts

My girlfriend have used the q-berts for at least 3 years now and they skip pretty bad unless you put a lot of weight on them. Seriously M44-7's are hands down the best.

The OMs were more a compromise from Ortofons to appeal to the traditionalists. In my opinion, they Concords are the way to go. the physics of the design lend to tons of downforce without much weight at all. find the right setting and they glide really smooth and don't skip. go too heavy and they won't skip but they'll chew up the wax.

quick question for the Ortofon people. when you buy a brand new Ortofon, is the aluminum case just in an outer cardboard sleeve or should it also be shrink-wrapped. just trying to find out if my new pair are factory fresh or what.

I think they come in a cardboard sleeve
I honestly forget.

If the ortofon Concords would just change their connection to rounded rather than flat they'd be a great alternative...But I personally felt like I was always having connection issue with a 1200...and I know alot of people had the same.
it also often resulted in over-tightening of the tone-arm right and it breaking.
[if you look at all other headshells, ever the OM they are rounded and make
a precise bridge fromt the headshell to the tonearm.
where as the flat dont quite reach in come cases, were talking crotch-hairs here
but 1 of the 4 connections would drop at any given time.

Josh - the older ones were flat but my Qberts and Nightclubs are rounded connectors.

so, I guess you have to choose your concords wisely :)

haha... dumb luck. i was having the problems you mentioned with my old DJ-S's and PRO-S's.. i just bought the Nightclub becuase i heard the sounded the best in the line and the Qberts were kind of an impulse buy.

M-447zzz

When they're set & calibrated right.. but it's honestly a preference thing between the 44-7s or the Q-Berts. BOTH pairs are legit. 200* DMC USA Supremacy Champ DJ SPS showed me how he sets the weights for his Q-berts & I've been a believer ever since.



Has your girl changed her styluses in the 3 years since she's copped them? I change mine up about every 6 months & haven't had any problems with skippage. Most Serato based DJs don't change their needles up as much as they should.

*2008 Champ*

Agreed. Not fun to have a needle crap out mid-set. I have backups with me always but it still sucks. the sound on mine was warbling the way it does when it's got a clump of dust on it... only no dust. couldn't figure it out until it just went silent.

i change mine (when I use shure) waaay too much.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
because im an idiot and Im always breakin/bending dem on shit.

Yep, changed them out and broke them in and the only way for them to not skip like the m44-7's is to weight them down with about 6 grams as oppose to 3 grams on the 44-7's. Which equals way more record wear. Also with 44-7s when taken cared of, can last me 3+years on a single pair of Stylus. If you can share your set-up technique, that would be awesome.

Thanks

I used these on new years. They were a friends brand new needles. They have to be the worst needles I've ever used. Weight or no weight they do not hold well. I've never seen the tonearm move back n forth so much in my life. They held scratching well but just doing the simplest scratches the tonearm was moving back n forth. I really expected more however the sound quality was ace. Has anyone tried these and had this experience?

www.pssl.com

The needles also kept losing connection. Maybe the tonearm needed to be cleaned. I expected more from Ortofon/Serato. When I would move the record back n forth the needle would not stay in place it kept moving back n forth. I'd stick with the shures or go with the Ortofon/Serato Concordes.

Ortofon are NOTORIOUS for needing to be broken in....
and yes, they are are on the light side...the OM's you can slide the needle out towards
the end of the headshell to create a little more downwards force.

It sucks though that they are all pushing this needle so hard and its not performing so well....I did notice price came way down.

yeh i really was let down cuz i was thinkin bout getting them. With the way they performed i'll pass. I don't mind dust build up with the shures. They are still #1 best scratch needles and they hold extremely well for the price.

all needles are notorious for needing to be broken it. sounds like that was only part of Teniq's issues. Sounds like they needed to be setup a little better.

no plastic, bought several of em, that's how they come

Shure M44-7 + the blue case

Whitelabels work well too

i love my WL

stanton diablo clear's

They still make the diablo's

 haha i like this XD

I spent the extra money and i do own the s 120 concourd and I also own the shure m447....Now from my experience doing both needles at a venue for 6 hours, i have had more problems with the m447 than my concourd between the dust build up and just plain durability and its not like i have to lick the needles like i do the shure i just put on and play and out of habit clean off the dust every once in awhile but the s120 are battle tanks

for me its 50-50 between the 120's or the M44-7's. got both but when using my tech 12's i go with the 120's. but when using someone elses tt's, i'll use the 44-7's due to absolute reliability under any conditions.

+1

I like the M44-7s, I had Concordes before and had to replace the stylus way more often. I just like M44-7s so much more. I can't even remember all the reasons anymore haha

My concordes last, just picky about what vinyl I use with em.

this

Hey i need to get some new needles i have some ortofon concordes and i was looking at these i think there the ones your talking about
www.123dj.com

are these better?

When the needles run out do i have to buy a whole new needle or can i just buy the little needle part?

Im new to turntables

depends on if ur spinning on ur own decks or someone elses. Its been stated before that the m447's are good for djing under any conditions. As with any needles, it be a good idea to get a backup set of the stylus'.
Be a good idea to get a case to carry either headshells or concords or both. I know the shure blue case will not carry the concords, but check around and see which will carry both.

I just spin on my own decks

I wanted those m447s because everyone says there good and have a hot output

Yeah i want to get a back up set idk which to get lol either the same concordes or some m447s

don't buy these from 123dj.com to expensive, i've seen them for around high $70. Concords are ease of install but you cannot go wrong with the 44-7's

didn't know that www.sears.com sold n44-7's!

Really?ima look for some on other websites to see where i can find some cheaper thanks for letting me know since i dont know much about turntables lol.

I just got the White labels and I've been pretty satisfied with them. They sound better the my M447's. I haven't spun a 4 hour gig with them so I can't comment on their durability and wear. I was going to get some Ortofons but the replacement tips costs WAYY too much for me. The White Label replacement tips cost the same as M44-7's and have better sound quality.

bump.

i'm in the market to buy new joints. i've had m447's for the past 12 years. lol. i would like something different, out of sheer boredom.

any new reviews on newer needles?

what are the best sounding in big room clubs?

Ditto

I made the same mistake man...
learn from my $$ spent and mediocre experiences with other needles.

I know have 5 different needles....
44-7 for serato, 35x for vinyl play/recording

its like 1200s, they are the standard for the reason.

Im using pink ortofons at the mo have pro s in my bag aswell and dont seem to have any probs with them just keeping my record and neddles nice and clean and its fine


But i was at the BPM show last week and was talking to the ortofon bloke there and the serato s120 are a very good choice for using serato just because of the way they are designed the cart is not like any of the other concord carts with the internal design with the canter leaver system and the way it reads the grove and it has a very healhty 10mv output voltage as my pinks are only 7mv From what i was told the s120s need very little setting up to get a good tracking unlike others and from looking at the cart its self has a vry slight diferent design so the needles cant be used on other carts or vice versa because of the design

Ortofon S-120s - liking them. Good signal for Serato, good sound for vinyl.

i was thinking of getting the pink ortofons or the s120s. @ Joshua Carl, you think? Just buy another pair of M44s??

I have Pink Om style, and Pink Concordes, as well as the red digis
and I even have the old blue & Black & yellow tips fropm back in the day.

I just found them to be harsh on vinyl (concordes especially)
and is your doing some scratching the 44-7 will def hold the groove a bit tighter than
even the pink OM style scratch carts on some of the more wiley cuts (think rubs and shit like that)

before serato dropped alot of EDM guys wouldnt touch the 44-7 because of the harsh output
(result the birth of the 35x)
Ironically now, we are LOOKING for solid output....

having used them all, I wish i had just bought back-up 44-7 & 35x Styli than all the Ortofon stuff... Im not in no way saying its a bad needle. but for my particular style the combo of those 2 needles is a perfect fit.

ok. u make perfect sense. u use the 35x in the clubs tho? oh nice vid btw on that calvin harris track.

Thanks...

I use the 35x when im doing actual vinyl, or ripping vinyl into SSL
the signal is good, but not as good as the 44-7s signal.

plus they are harder to come by now a days... especially last minute
(IE needle breaks on friday, need a replacement on Sat)

yeah i just want a needle with superior sound. ie., more bass, clearer highs. i stuck with 44-7s for so long that i never bothered to look and shop around for others. now, here i am about to just buy another pair. lol #go figure.

yeah... that all comes from our hardware now.

and seeing how MP3s are not a lossless/uncompressed format.
we wont have that again until/unless the DVS start supporting all the lossless formats.
and more importantly, the services start providing that format...

check this out, it will break your heart.
Watchwww.youtube.com
(i know loudness is different... but how many waveform do we see that look like this)

i know, ive actually seen this before. all my files look like that. shame.

SO ive decided to go with the 44-7 but i see 3 different models, pre-mounted, regular, and a comp? How do I decide which is right for me? using SSL, and maybe some light scratching.

to save yourself the headcahe as someone new to needles and get the Pre-mounted.

though, you should be familiar with the anatomy to trouble shoot mid-gig

Check this out fellas, I came upon a lick for two new Shure M35S cartridges and 6- SC35C tips, I never used this one, what's the best setting for em and do they have a long break in period? All for under $80