Hi Beggsy.

If you are wanting touch sensitive platters, then that is quite a bit feature for you, there may be a number of smaller benefits to the DX, but something like platters in your instance sounds like they're a biggie.
I'd suggest having a go on the S4 to see if you like it, as only you can tell if you want it or not. From experience the amount of features something has doesn't equate to it being the right controller for you.

As for plugging your CDJs into the DX, you can do this, as the DX acts like a mixer when ITCH is running.

Sounds like Denon products overall...haha.

I would recommend jumping on the Native Instruments forum and then post questions about exactly what you are trying to accomplish with the product. Also what type of music you are playing...etc. From there you can get a better idea if it is even necessary. Also the jogwheels on the S4 aren't that much bigger but the scratching is pretty accurate.

as for stability, the lastest version of itch is pretty stable! 1.6 that shipped with the dx was full of bugs which have now been fixed,

the s4 is also new, so you will probably have the usual teething problems for a few months with the software. best to check out the NI forums to be sure, and see what others are saying.

i havent used the s4 but love the dx, its not cluttered with pointless buttons. everything just seems in the right place. the only annoying think is the absence of touch sensitive platters.

Thank you very much guys!

Danny

Do you think Serato might step up their game with itch and offer DVS control for a nominal upgrade fee?

Beggsy,

You should see if a local shop has a S4 demo in stock to play with and see what you like. The problem here is the Xone DX is really for the "house DJ" rather than the "scratch DJ." If you like the clutter free ITCH User Interface and more of a focus on the hardware, perhaps the VCI300 and NS7 are better fits compared to the S4. Personally, the Traktor interface is just too cluttered.

One other thing to think about... the S4 sampler section is what I think people really get salivating over... however the turn off to me is the torturous task of always having your beatgrids perfectly aligned to ensure a flawless performance. If you are more of a hands on DJ, this may really (in the end) drive you more nuts. I really do not want to spend my time fixing beat grids instead of actually planning my set. I do not want to avoid songs I have not "tested" the beatgrid for precise accuracy relative to the other tracks I am playing. I just prefer having manual control. If you choose to operation that way, my bet is the S4 sampler is really not going to be any good to you.

Another important consideration that often gets overlooked is support. I have used VDJ, Serato and Traktor. Hands down Serato has the best service I have EVER seen in any technology company. Their help is personalized to the situation. It is not scripted or reading from the manuals. You get support from guys who are actually USING the software in test labs and live gigs. Not that other companies do not have support employees who use their products, but Serato team really understands what it means to provide SUPPORT and SERVICE. I wont take you down this rabbit whole, but I have plenty to say about NI and VDJ support. But perhaps the best support is the kind you never really need to use. :)

Maybe this has given you a little something more to think about. Like cnewton says, give 1.7.1 a try and see what you think. I have found 1.7 really made me fall in love with the Xone DX as the best overall DJ solution I have ever owned. So maybe it will do the same for you. It will still have the 'scratching" limitation, but since you can hook up CD/Turntables to the channel inputs, hit SHIFT+CUE for the channel and throughput the signal to ITCH... that might give you what you need when you need to do the scratching.

Best of Luck..... and definitely share what you learn/come up with during your journey of exploration. :)

Xone DX + traktor pro 4 = the best machine

I think that might be true if the dj wants more automation in their sets. I don't like a bunch of automation in my set, so I prefer the itch workflow and more tactile options with the xone dx. I also like being able to see a good portion of my library while watching the decks turn. That way I can be looking ahead on my list for my next list while watching the track wave form.... Without having to touch a thing.

Again just my humble opinion. :)

Great points, but really the grids are grids in any software. Itch has a far better system with warpable grids, but if your grid is off in Itch or Traktor you "sync" is going to be off. I assume what you do in Itch is pitch bend (or line up wave forms). The same applies to the incorrectly gridded trakcs in Traktor. I just recently purchased the S4, I am also a huge fan of Itch -- but NI really hit it out of the park wi the the S4. You can also pitch bend samples to get them perfect for you liking. The traktor S4 GUI has also been stripped down of a bunch of unncessary icons and is much easier to look at. Not quite as good as Itch, but it's def. an improvement.

I was "in lust" with The DX and I'm a huge fan of Itch. I had a Xone 42 and was ready to jump on the DX but the no-sensitive jog wheels killed it for me. I've been playing with my VCI-300 for a while now and just got the S4. I'm glad I did. I posted a review on "The S4 Thread" on the mian forum.

NI has really raised the bar in the controller world. I'm excited to see Serato's response. Competition is a good thing for us the consumers with both prices and products.

Good luck.

^ also, if your a die hard fan of Itch -- you can always wait around a bit and see what the Numarl 4 Channel product is that was teased on Skratcworx a few weeks ago. It was explained to be an NS7 type controller, but smaller without spinning platters.

Ya it seems the DX is great for us house DJs but not the scratch DJs out there. Numark has a few new VDJ Controllers out there now. Which is a surprise. I noticed in the newest version of VDJ you can control up to 8 decks and have 12 sample slots. It is pretty crazy.... but no xone dx m means I'm not waisting my tim too much wih it. ;)

Are you saying you have Midi-mapping for this?

I have the S4 and will be getting the DX by the end of the week.

There are maps available from allenj and heath as well as all over the net from 3rd parties like mixarchitect.

@DJChad72, Sounds good I'll check them out but since the S4 software version is so new I was wondering there was something specific to Traktor Pro S4 and Xone:DX mapping. I'll check it out.

I still have some reservations about the longevity of the build quality of the S4 starting with platters.

I can tell you the mappers for Traktor Pro and Xone DX worked so so... Nothing really compared to ITCH in my book.... But both traktor and itch were new to me. So the learning curve for Traktor was far greater for me given it's buried features and the fact the maps didn't exactly react as the buttons elude to on the xone dx. So I found myself at home with itch much faster.

I agree with you on the toughness of the S4. I think if you reviewed the findings of X1 users, you might get a hint of how well the S4 will stand up to punishment. It just looks far too plastic to hold up as dj gear that gets lugged from booth to booth. The xone dx feels so solid and heavy... And you can tell it is metal or a hardened fiber.... When there is a chill in the air, it is cold to the touch. Plastic generally does not chill so easily when there is a faint heat source inside.

I just received the DX today and I can tell you so far with limited use, the sound through the headphones is so much better than the S4 and output volume is so much stronger.

If you dont know already, you can go into ITCH setup, select mixer or playback tab and adjust the headroom to get more power out of the master output. Just remember negative numbers = louder output. :) I truly agree. I used a NI Audio4DJ and it did not seem as " powerful" as it promised.

Sweet man. That's good to read. Alot times the soundcard or features are compared in products by whats written on paper vs. real world results. Good to see someone posting a comparison.

Have you listended to the NS7 and compared it with the DX. I always thought that sounded great. The best set up i've ever had was an Audio 8 thru a Xone:42. Aahhhh, that was the sound of sex.

Ok, I need some insight please. I own a DX and I am about to trade it in for an S4 because of problems with my DX. I am curious to know if going from the DX to the S4 would be considered a downgrade in your opinion. I am really curious about the build quality of the S4. I also read that the sound output from the master and the headphones is not as loud as the DX. Should I just get a new DX or try for the S4. I do not scratch, so the platters are not the issue. Are there any owners of both here? If so please chime in with an opinion. I really appreciate the input. Thanks.

Also is any of the S4 made of metal? Or is it all plastic?

I do not own the s4, but my instincts tell me to stay with the DX. The 10.6.5 upgrade for mac and the 1.7.1 update have really made the dx solid. I mostly have no sound issues when playing. I think latency still needs a tune up, but still very stable. So be sure to try both of those if you have not already. It may change your tune.

I already own the DX but I have had some bad luck with the replacement units that I have received, so they are offering a refund. I have looked at the S4, the DN-MC6000, and I have a DX and personally I love my DX, but I have owned 4 different DX units in 5 months and each has had it own problem right out of the box. I am so pissed!!!!! I want a good DX, but am tempted to try the S4.

Just want to get some insight on the S4. I cannot have them both, so........
S4 has no booth out, no XLR, no AUX, or Cue connections. I have also heard that the DX has much better sound quality and headphone sound. Anybody else? Thanks for the input btw ;)

Is amazing, 4 units in 5 month... really Allen & Heath must recognize the problems with this product. Is beautifull, robust, good sound, but too many problems to work normally, and the price is very high!!!!!!

it´s a professional product ???...

I will get my new unity the monday...

A new DX or a new S4?

To be honest 2 of the units had simple button problems out of the box. hotcue was stuck down and the other was the library rotary would get stuck down. A simple thing but I wanted it replaced. One unit has a faulty master RCA sound issue! Hard decision.

Keep in mind a hand full of people having issues does not constitute a bad product. The major of user do not even follow forums or use online. People tend to estimate large number of users with issues to try and push the priority of their own issue.

Not trying to offend anyone by that, but that is the general reality.

Agree completely! I still love the DX and Serato is great given my circumstances.

just had another great night with the DX! its a good product!

Is anyone using any other additional equipment as addons to the DX setup?

Wow - luckee_d you seem to be really unlucky with these issues. Very sorry to hear.

I can't comment on your decision other than I'd get whatever feels right for you.
We do have a large and growing DX community, and although there have been some teething problems, the return/damage rate is pretty low. You probably count towards a good portion of them :-(

Anyhow. Your best bet in my eyes is to get your hands on an S4 and see for yourself. We'd certainly only want happy customers, so having an unhappy one is not good at all.

Hope you manage to get things sorted asap! 5 months is way too long!

Thanks Matt-C for your considerations, :)

Unlucky yes, and probably costing AM&S a ton on shipping. Hence the reason why I am considering something else. I love the DX... And I really do think that ITCH is going in the right direction and I cant wait for the 2.0 release. I am at a crossroads with a decision to make and a hard one... They are offering a refund and I am half tempted to take it. Then again I am half tempted to request a new DX! A&H and Serato is great people!!! I did see the S4 today and I do like it, but the DX seems more pro to me, the S4 doesnt even half a Freakin booth output! WTF? So I am thinking long and hard over the weekend. Decisions decisions...

Can you even let me/us know of any new features or controllers in the works? Please? By chance, do you know if they will make a standalone sample controller for ITCH? Maybe for samples and loops? Something I could use with the Xone DX?

I know you cant tell too much but anything would help me in my decision process =]
Thanks Matt-C

I wouldn't bother with an S4 myself, I have been using Traktor for the last 2 years along with ableton, however, after playing with the CDJ2000s and Rekordbox and loving the simpleness of it I started to look at other things.

I ended up playing with a DX the other day with 1.7.1 and fell for it immediately, it is pretty much identical to Rekordbox, although I do realise itch was here first, and with the BEATGRID and coloured waveforms it made it a joy to use.

It took me 24 hours to decide I was going to buy into Serato.

I have bought the DX this morning with fingers tightly crossed that 'mixtape' will work with it when itch 2.0 arrives. If not I will be gutted, but I will just sell the DX and buy whatever comes next.

I went back to Traktor last night, and it seemed a real mess to be honest, and that was what made me decide to jump.

I like the S4, but it is a bedroom tool, nothing more imho.

I thought it was a bedroom tool too, but people argue it is not and is pro!

Well, it is not lit well enough to use in a club without having a light on it, and it is very plastic.

Agree!

I haven't played on the S4 but it feels and looks like a toy. definitely not very pro feeling at all.

If the DX isn't working out, what else would one recommend? I like 4 deck control and also ITCH. Are there any other mixers that support software that you can recommend?

Well I have owned both the S4 and the DX.

Let me see if I can weight in on this conversation.

*Sound Quality - To my ears the DX wins hands down.
*Build Quality - The DX is more robust, heavier, and a lot more metal.
*Longevity - Well that is up in the air but but I would think that the DX would last longer due to its counterpart has a heavy plastic makeup (although X1's have the same make-up and there have not been any complaints.) BTW, I had to return my 1st unit due the platter covers were floating around in the box during unboxing.
*Feel - I just feel more naturally at home with Serato - Colored waves, intuitive layout, not many hidden/buried commands, love its library organization, editing something as simple as BPM is as simple as it should be, etc. iTunes auto loads each time in ITCH but in S4 you have to click on iTunes library for it load then there is the wait time for it.
*Looks - I personally love the look the Xone:DX - I really don't like the look/feel of the platters on the S4 - I have not quiet put my finger on why but....just not feeling them
*Performance I have not had any issues so far with performance on the DX. On the S4 due to my unfamiliarity with TP S4 there is a learning curve.
*Booth Out I don't know about you guys but this is very important to me and something that bothered me for so long about the VCI-300 - BTW I did a recording at 128kbps from the booth out of the DX and the sound quality was amazing!
*XLR Output OMG - need I say more
*Case - It fits in my existing VCI-300 case *with some modding
*Whitelabel - self explanatory
*Serato Support - self explanatory

So for me the Xone:DX is a much better fit for the reasons above and probably many more I just didn't feel like typing.

What's missing or what I would like?
(1) The obvious - An F'n Sampler ala SSL Sampler with the same functions.....but I can still route Abelton thru the DX and trigger all my Drops/Samples with my Denon DN-HC1000S
(2)F'n Video.....lol
(3)Jog/Scratch wheels like on the VCI-300


The 2 major selling points for me were Sound Quality (OMG) and Booth Output.


*** All the above is my opinion and because it works for me and my application does not mean it will work for everyone - Make sure you choose what's important to you and your business. I am not an expert on Traktor as I pointed out so keep that in mind

After seeing a very low-priced online ad for a used DX unit, and within 4 hours of research, my educated guess is that DX owners are seemingly more curious about the S4 seeing as it is cheaper, offers an active platter, proper pitch sliders, built-in sampler, and overall offers more for less. I am a loyal Serato guy and am ONLY holding back from NI simply because I don't have time to manage multiple libraries, hardware, or re-learn other software for which I would essentially be doing the same thing with! I have faith that Serato will continue to improve its products along with its great support service. HOWEVER, It troubles me to find out that the folks at A&H do not respond to their posts as good or as clear as the Serato support : ). In particular, the dial sensitivity issues, the tapping issues, and things which a ~1000£ unit should NOT encounter - to be blunt, major functional issues that were embarrassing! This is why I am waiting for the next 4 channel Itch controller in which I hope will blow the S4 out of the water! And hopefully, D&M Holdings (mother company of Denon,A&H,and many others) will pay attention to their mistakes. I know Serato/Rane listens and responds much faster and better ; ) Even Vestax were great at handling my VCI-300 issues and not too long after, an MKII was their answer! Where is the A&H DX MKII? Were the plans hi-jacked by Numark? Please, answer our prayers! Just think of all the Scratch Live users with itchy hands waiting for this!! For me, NI Traktor S4 + new versions of Traktor on the horizon may cast a shadow on Serato!

Traktor sells so well as most people use a pirated copy.

The only way to test the water with Serato is by buying into it at £500+

If you have been using a hooky copy for a year with a cheap £150 controller when something like the S4 is announced you probably will jump on board.

I think most people on here have probably tried Itch and Traktor and are using Itch, I bet there are hardly any users on the NI boards that have tried Itch properly.

Hi pdang


Sorry if anything's been missed, the Serato forums are a new way of supporting customers to us here at A&H and we're still finding our feet : ?
Please post links to these posts, or any threads you'd like me/us to respond to within these forums and I'll get right on it - thanks : )

The so called 'tapping' issue was replied to, at length, in more then one thread and all customer's who contacted me directly as requested had the issue resolved some time ago - we didn't believe, at the time, that the problem represented a 'major functional issue' in use as you suggest, this appears to be borne out by the small number of customers returning units with complaints related to this symptom (we're talking single figures here); many other users also confirmed that they did not experience problems. In any event, production changes were made very early on to ensure this could not continue to be an issue for any other owners.

If you have any hardware issues, there are also established support systems in place at: allen-heath.helpserve.com
If you refer to the A&H forums - please see the comment above the Post Reply field.

MkII? DX has only been shipping for 12months now, so future development shouldn't be ruled out...does anyone know how long was the VCI around for before Vestax released the MkII?
FYI: D&M don't govern R&D programming at A&H; they may be our corporate owners, but design and development is all still maintained, independently, by our team here at the UK facility.

I hope this helps clarify some of your concerns - but if you have a particular issue with your own unit; post a link to that thread here, or PM me with your real name or email address, so I can track any tickets sent into the A&H system.

Cheers
Al

I certainly don't want a MKII of the DX to be released, there is a reason products from Allen & Heath, Rane and Pioneer (in the DJ world) hold their value so well, and that is because they are not superseded every 12-18 months.

This means that we can upgrade through their range without loosing hundreds every time we do.

Not sure this is correct. If you check these forums you will find quite a few Itch users that have jumped ship to the S4. The NI boards have a lot of people that have tried both as well. The feature set of Traktor is hard for Itch to compete with in it present state.

There is definitely something to be said about LACK of features just as much as there is about an abundance of features. There is a critical point in which software becomes TOO much to manage in a live situation. For me Traktor and VDJ have crossed that point and gone too far beyond it for someone to just go from CDJ's to Software.

You can go from a pair of CDJs to a DX MUCH faster than you can CDJ to S4, in my opinion. It is true if you dont like something on the S4, you can alter the mapping. However again if someone is still using CDJs it is because they are resistant to the overly complexity of the software setup.

ITCH is anything but complex. Although you cant customize mappings, you also dont waste hours screwing the map up only to revert back to the factory map! lol

The CDJ DJ is also worried that other DJs will think they are "cheating" (kid you not, best friend still uses CDJs because he thinks the wave forms are cheating!) Well in ITCH just hide the wave forms and dont use SYNC. FIXED.

It is true with TS4 and S4 you can do the same... however to use the samples, you have to use the beatgrid and spend hours making sure they are perfect prior to your performance. Which to me will keep those hardcore CDJ fans away from the S4, but there is still a chance they could do a DX as it is more closely can minic their traditional setup.

To me the S4 is more for the DJ who is willing to completely cast away all the old paradigms of DJ mixing.

For me personally, I need to be in control of my own mixes. I cant give up too much control otherwise it feels like someone else's foot is on the gas... and all i have is a brake and steering wheel. I need to have control of all 3. With the S4 you really need to be prepared to give up alot of control in order to use the samplers.

I think I like the S4 method. With all the other things I have to worry about when DJing it would be great to not have to stress about a sample coming in offbeat.

True but it requires a lot of prework to ensure the grids are right. Otherwise you are taking a risk on the fly to make sure all the grids are 100% all the way through.

I just picked up an S4. I have a TTM57sl and still use serato. Both are are real fun so I am not choosing which one is better but to help you clarify some things that might help you with your decision...

-I never used Traktor till about 2 weeks ago. It takes a little more of an adjustment period cause there are alot of features to learn. Realistically, it took me 3-4 days and now I know it like the back of my hand.

Beatgridding-I was also concerned about this. I never used beatgridding and on Serato I would mix by ear cause that's just how I learned. I can tell you it literally takes like 2 minutes tops to beatgrid a song. The great thing is Traktor does a great job at analyzing tracks and gridding them correctly so alot of time you wont have go and beatgrid every song

There have been some issues with the S4. The headphone jack seems to act up at times and I might send it back to get fixed once I can find a break from my gigs. Still rarely happens and I'm still happy with my purchase. Why...?

Cause its fun!!! That's what it all boils down to. It's just alot of fun. I scratch alot and I think for Serato DJ's who like to do tricks and cut here and there...it opens up alot of doors. Typically up to this point I would download music and put my set together before a big show and that was it. I've been playing for maaaad years and battled when I was younger and bla bla bla. I still enjoyed djing but there wasnt a whole lot new techniques for me to freak or anything new to learn. Not saying that i mastered everything but some things just weren't fun for me. I use Ableton and produce my own tracks but am I really going to launch scenes in a live set? For others this may be an excellent tool, but for me not really. I would much rather produce my own remixes and tracks in Ableton and play them...simple as that. I'm sure the bridge is going to come up with some crazy ish for me to use but for now I don't really have a need for it.

So bottom line...playing on the S4 is loads of fun. I have maaad respect for Serato and will still use Serato. Aside from all the technical features and extra bells and whistles each piece of software/hardware comes with what should matter is "am I going to have fun freakin this thing live?" If the answer is yes, thats what you should be using. This will allow you to be way more creative naturally and come up with some sick material.

Pick one up and try for a week. You can return it so what do you have to lose? I can tell you within a couple of days you will KNOW if its for you. I urge you and everyone to give it a shot if youre considering it. I was real hesitant but now I'm glad i picked one up.

also...peep this out

www.djtechtools.com

Wow, there's a lot of good feedback in this thread. I have been having the DX/S4 debate for nearly a month now and after reading this and days of research I am going with the DX. I DO NOT like plastic feeling hardware.. especially when it costs a grand. Plus I don't really scratch so it's an easy decision. Thanks all!

I love the Xone DX.. new Pioneer looks sweet, but A&H hands down = Pro!

I am with you SS. LOVE the DX.

It will be interesting to see if the club scene adopts a single controller OR if they just start offering a sound mixer with XLR, 1/4" or RCA cables on an empty space.

It would be super smart of Serato to offer clubs the pick of their ITCH hardware line up. They get 1 free and any other hardware would be a noticable discount. I would think that would get alot of DJ's attention to know if they get to know ITCH, they can walk into any CLUB plug in and WERK! :)

Hola. This is my first post on this forum.

I recently picked up an NI S4, presumeably to replace my Xone Dx. After spending some time with it, I've decided that the S4 is going to be what's going. For a lot of reasons (many stated here), I just think that the Xone DX is the better machine. However, I do want to try to keep using the new Traktor Pro S4 software, as I am "Traktor guy," and like the new functionality (though I hate the gray scale over the old yellowish colors on the GUI).

The mappings from my old Traktor Pro more or less let me operate my DX in S4. I do want to do some remappings using the hotcue cues for the sampler decks, but we'll see if I get that far...

In the meantime, I have a MAJOR problem! I can't get any sound to come out of the headphones of my DX while using S4! As S4 no longer has an icon on the GUI for headphone volume, I'm not sure what else to do. I've obviously troubleshot enough to know that it isn't the headphones or my DX. Has anyone else had this problem?!

It seems at first glance that either NI didn't think to make it's software "friendly" enough to be used with other hardware... Or did I just screw up?

When you complete the mapping for the S4 on DX let me know, I'd be interested in copping a copy...