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WHERE exactly in the ID3 tag are the cue points and loops stored?

Product
Scratch Live
Version
1.9.2
Hardware
Rane SL1
Computer
PC
OS
Platform
-
AnthonyNok 12:59 PM - 5 November, 2010
Product: scratchlive
Version: 1.9.2
Hardware: scratchlive-sl1
Computer: pc
OS Version: xp
---

Hey Guys,

WHERE exactly in the ID3 tag are the cue points and loops stored? Which field?

Also, what is the particular reason to strictly use ID3 v2.3. Is it ok to simply convert the MP3 to ID3 v2.3 or do you have to erase all tags THEN convert to ID3 v2.3?

Side Question: How do you really know if a MP3 is the stated bitrate? With all the up and down conversions / encoding, unless your ripping it yourself from the source, is there any way to know for sure that the file is up to par and true to it's tagged bitrate?

Thanks.
victor_M 1:14 PM - 5 November, 2010
HERE exactly in the ID3 tag are the cue points and loops stored? Which field?

They are kept on the MP3 themselves. Sorry don't know where in the file. I do know id3 v2.3 stores the info in header of the file.

Also, what is the particular reason to strictly use ID3 v2.3. Is it ok to simply convert the MP3 to ID3 v2.3 or do you have to erase all tags THEN convert to ID3 v2.3?

v2.3 is more robust than the prior version. I use a program called mp3tag to copy my info from older version too 2.3. No issues.

Side Question: How do you really know if a MP3 is the stated bitrate? With all the up and down conversions / encoding, unless your ripping it yourself from the source, is there any way to know for sure that the file is up to par and true to it's tagged bitrate?

The only true way to do know your getting a excellent rip is to buy the CD or vinyl and rip it yourself..
I usually use my ears. Some record pools grab 128bit mp3 re encode it to 320 and BAM!! you think your getting a high quality file but in reality it's a Ferrari with a Hyundai accent engine.

Hope this helps.
AnthonyNok 4:26 AM - 7 November, 2010
Hey Vic,

As for WHERE cues and loops are stored, I wanted to make sure if I erased the ID3 tags, that it wouldn't effect the stored info.

In regards to ID3 v2.3 I was curious to know, why not 2.4. And what is the difference?

MP3 file quality really comes into play when playing bigger and professional venues fro the most part.

Thanks!
Konix 5:07 PM - 7 November, 2010
Most Serato info is stored in the General Encapsulated Object (GEOB) tag. This isn't a typical tag and most (if any?) programs cannot show/display this info.
AnthonyNok 12:13 PM - 11 November, 2010
Ok so you can totally wipe a tag and all Serato related info will be intact. Cues and loops. What else does it store?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 2:27 AM - 12 November, 2010
If you strip your tags via iTunes this information will be lost. I am not too sure about other tag editing software but I assume this would be the same.

Cue points, loops and overview information is all saved to the file itself in this tag.
AnthonyNok 1:44 PM - 12 November, 2010
In conclusion:

Cue points, loops and overview info is stored in the (GEOB) party of the ID3 tag. You cannot physically see it change it manually, so clearing basic fields (artist, comments etc) is safe.

Yet, if you strip the file of the ID3 tag and choose "NONE" in iTunes, you will lose stored SSL info.

Is this correct?
Konix 1:49 PM - 12 November, 2010
Correct.
ninjagaijin 2:01 PM - 12 November, 2010
I had a nasty scare recently by converting using itunes all my tags to id tag v2.3, then using Mixed In Key to scan the keys. All this was done a year or two AFTER scanning with serato overviews. Now by accident I started converting some tunes to 2.3 again a second time, and for some of these tunes, it has made a glitch audio part at the very end of the file which produces the 'invalid audio' error message. I managed to fix by lossless transcoding from mp3 to wav file after removing the glitchy ending in Audacity beta. This is a bad way to go though since it wastes space. I don't know a good program to use that keeps the index intact while cutting or editing mp3 files, I used to use mp3directcut but have been finding it is pretty useless.

So a lesson, if you convert to id2.3, don't do it twice.

Guess itunes spazzed out about some tag it didnt like or the overview or something.. otherwise could have been the double tagging, taking/writing the old tag data as audio (glitch noise) and copying to new 2.3 tags on top. That's my guess anyway. Either way extremely frustrating. Lucky I have a backup, but still, I prefer not to have to waste time on stuff like replacing damaged files from itunes/mixed in key/serato compatibility issues. I've taken 6 months off mixing already to get my Serato database in order and i'm barely half way there (said to myself could start mixing again when at least half way finished). All of it sucks really in comparison to the creative side. At least i'm past the technical woes and onto Serato crashes (don't try removing one tag data and adding another seperate tag data onto the same wav file thereby erasing and writing the same file's data at the same time upon closing, almost always crashes me out and causes me to lose database changes - have to re-load each changed tune to get the data back to the database and exit again to save - took me ages to figure out why this was causing crash), databse management and computer optimisation. It just seems like such a huge chore before the freedom of Serato's endless possibilities. Sick of all this work!!
ninjagaijin 2:02 PM - 12 November, 2010
oops so in summary I would ask so its possible some programs that OVERWRITE sections of tag could destroy this hidden component? I lost some cue points and overviews this way and many corrupt mp3s using Rapid Evolution writing too many tags sections..
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 9:18 PM - 15 November, 2010
This is correct. I would suggest not stripping or converting tags in 3rd party software unless you are prepared to loose your overviews, cue's and loops.
AnthonyNok 10:14 PM - 15 November, 2010
Quote:
This is correct. I would suggest not stripping or converting tags in 3rd party software unless you are prepared to loose your overviews, cue's and loops.


So new rule:

DO NOT covert ID3 versions (ie. v2.2 to v2.3). Even in ITUNES, MP3TAG, or MEDIAMONEKY. You may loose your stored SSL info.

This is a definite? or a chance?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 12:30 AM - 16 November, 2010
Converting tag versions in any program could cause this information to be lost. As all of these 3rd party programs do things differently its hard to say whether they will remove Scratch LIve data or not. I would say that in any case, stripping and converting tags will cause you to loose your overviews, cues and loops and you should be prepared to loose these if you are stripping or converting tags using 2rd party software.

Cheers,

Sam.
AnthonyNok 12:59 AM - 16 November, 2010
Hey Sam,
Can you covert tag versions in SSL?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 1:11 AM - 16 November, 2010
Unfortunately this is not something that you can do within Scratch Live currently. You will need to use iTunes or something similar. There is an article which explains how to do this here:

www.serato.com
AnthonyNok 1:14 AM - 16 November, 2010
So best practice would be to make sure your files are ID3 v2.3 from the start to avoid any future problems with the tags.

Thanks!
Serato, Forum Moderator
Samuel S 1:54 AM - 16 November, 2010
No worries. I'll close this thread off for now but let me know if you run into any further issues.

Cheers,

Sam.