Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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So... is the beat detection really this bad?
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

So... is the beat detection really this bad?

Thuht 4:32 AM - 25 September, 2010
I started out on virtual dj, and then moved to traktor. It was really easy to adjust the beatgrid in virtual dj the rare time that it got it wrong, and in traktor it was a little more difficult- I hoped that it didn't detect the tempo wrong. Usually it was ok though.
I'm considering getting some Numark V7s, which would mean I'd switch to Itch. Not my first choice, but I respect Serato, so I'm willing to consider it. If I like it, I'll swich.
I downloaded it from the site, and I gotta say, the first thing I did was load up a track to see how well it detected the beatgrid. I was a little disappointed- i thought it was an easy one. I loaded up a second one, and then I was REALLY disappointed.

Am I doing this wrong, or is the beat detection really that off?

I've posted links to some screenshots I took. I circled in red what *i think* it's saying is the beat. I've circled in blue the actual beat.
img245.imageshack.us
This one is totally off- not a one beat is even close to the actual beat.

img203.imageshack.us
This one's not as bad, it got the first beat at least. But the others are way off- it said the tempo was 30 bpm slower than it really is!

Thoughts?
seratosnatch 6:26 AM - 25 September, 2010
Is this a new tune or a vinyl rip? If the song has a consistent bpm and it is not a vinyl rip, I'd say the detection is definitely off. You'd have to manually fix it. I think the bpm detection is not very precise on many tracks with 1.7.
bigdik magee 7:40 AM - 25 September, 2010
You may want to re-analyze all of your tracks with ITCH especially now with the new beat grid. (or just turn it off) -BDM
Thuht 7:58 AM - 25 September, 2010
Quote:
Is this a new tune or a vinyl rip? If the song has a consistent bpm and it is not a vinyl rip, I'd say the detection is definitely off. You'd have to manually fix it. I think the bpm detection is not very precise on many tracks with 1.7.

Well, the first one is "Alejandro" by Lady Gaga (you can see in the picture)- it's a digital release, and the second one is even newer. It's Mike Posner's "Cooler Than Me," ripped from my promoonly cd.
These work with my other DVSs, so I'm pretty sure it's ITCH. I'll check out how accurate the rest of the "recent" library is.

Quote:
You may want to re-analyze all of your tracks with ITCH especially now with the new beat grid. (or just turn it off) -BDM

This is actually the first time I've ever used serato software on this library, so I'm not sure if it would do any good to analyze them all at once, instead of just re-analyzing that one track (which I did). I could turn it off, but then I don't get to take advantage of the beat-synced loops and effects, or the tempo or beat syncing.

Thanks for the feedback guys!
djcerla 8:12 AM - 25 September, 2010
Beatgrid in ITCH is more powerful than Traktor's; however, it's in its early stage and there are quirks to be ironed out. BTW I'm not using beatgrids, much more fun without IMHO.
seratosnatch 8:35 AM - 25 September, 2010
I agree with Djceria..it could be a really good beatgrid once it gets in form.
Subliminal 4:00 PM - 25 September, 2010
I've got the same problem, unfortunately with one of my latest favorite tracks :(

I just noticed the new beatgridding function in ITCH after reading this topic, but how does it work exactly? How can I change the bpm without having to use the 'tap' button?
czar 4:38 PM - 25 September, 2010
"Winner? Its a Tie – Traktor has more advanced grid controls but Itch’s flexible grid is a desirable feature."

www.djtechtools.com

by the time itch gets better traktor will be better too.
kraal 5:34 PM - 25 September, 2010
Quote:

by the time itch gets better traktor will be better too.

right as the world turns
Thuht 9:14 PM - 25 September, 2010
Yeh, so basically it means that the software isn't mature enough for my needs. With a little more polish, maybe. But it would be a wise move to make the V7 work with more softwares out there, since the software is free anyway- they wouldn't be losing any money. It'd appeal to more people.
Subliminal 9:17 PM - 25 September, 2010
Quote:
I've got the same problem, unfortunately with one of my latest favorite tracks :(

I just noticed the new beatgridding function in ITCH after reading this topic, but how does it work exactly? How can I change the bpm without having to use the 'tap' button?

Saw the tutorial on this website. It seems to have the correct bpm now :D
seratosnatch 10:00 PM - 25 September, 2010
there ya go ;)
D-RoC71 5:01 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
"Winner? Its a Tie – Traktor has more advanced grid controls but Itch’s flexible grid is a desirable feature."

www.djtechtools.com.


It looks like ITCH lost to Traktor. 6-1......
kraal 5:08 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
"Winner? Its a Tie – Traktor has more advanced grid controls but Itch’s flexible grid is a desirable feature."

www.djtechtools.com.


It looks like ITCH lost to Traktor. 6-1......

yeah from a review by someone who beleives in total customization. lot of 'missed' information due to not being familiar with ITCH
Subliminal 5:19 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
there ya go ;)

Busy with correcting the bpm with some acapellas I downloaded the other day. It's a hell, most of the times the beat detection is way off...
kraal 5:24 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
there ya go ;)

Busy with correcting the bpm with some acapellas I downloaded the other day. It's a hell, most of the times the beat detection is way off...

cause they have no beat ... if the bpm is set from where you downloaded them from it is was not to re-analyze
djcerla 6:26 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
"Winner? Its a Tie – Traktor has more advanced grid controls but Itch’s flexible grid is a desirable feature."

www.djtechtools.com.


It looks like ITCH lost to Traktor. 6-1......


No. It totally DOESN'T look like. More 3-3.
Numark, Support
sbangs 6:38 PM - 27 September, 2010
Its worth noting that DJ Techtools sells Traktor and promotes it.
So they do have to be sensitive to that software. I think ultimately the question is really what works best for you.
kraal 7:05 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
Its worth noting that DJ Techtools sells Traktor and promotes it.
So they do have to be sensitive to that software. I think ultimately the question is really what works best for you.

yes and more features is only important if you plan on using them
D-RoC71 8:15 PM - 27 September, 2010
Hey... back in the day no one used a laptop... now almost everyone uses them and their software.
If everyone thought " Laptop/software features is only important if you plan on using them" .... I wonder if Serato or any other DJ software will be existent.
kraal 8:21 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
Hey... back in the day no one used a laptop... now almost everyone uses them and their software.
If everyone thought " Laptop/software features is only important if you plan on using them" .... I wonder if Serato or any other DJ software will be existent.

you completely missed the point of what i am saying........

my point is a lot of thiese side by side reviews go feature for feature and give the winner to the one with the most features..... but if YOU do not plan on using these extra features there is no point in choosing software because it has more features
D-RoC71 8:31 PM - 27 September, 2010
I get your point...but what I'm saying is that ITCH doesn't really have much options so what exactly can you use? How do u know if you're going to use the features if you don't have it.
For example...who thought that someone can actually use the beatgrid.... sample cells... key lock...etc until it was introduced to them.
I mean you can stay as common as you would like but I expect DJ softwares to be as innovative.
So basically, what you're saying is that The Bridge is pointless if you're not going to use it? But wouldn't it be cool to learn to know how to expand your artistic abilities???
kraal 9:41 PM - 27 September, 2010
Quote:
IThe Bridge is pointless if you're not going to use it? But wouldn't it be cool to learn to know how to expand your artistic abilities???

read what you want .. that is NOT what i said i am done going back and forth with pointless arguing -- MOOOVIN'
D-RoC71 10:10 PM - 27 September, 2010
yeah yeah...absolutely....
Dj SammySmalls 2:17 AM - 11 October, 2011
Dont get mad or anything ITCH but i thinkks it is just ITCH lol Scratch seems to be get it right most of the time
D-RoC71 3:13 PM - 11 October, 2011
Quote:
Dont get mad or anything ITCH but i thinkks it is just ITCH lol Scratch seems to be get it right most of the time


Have you seen TORQ????
Dj SammySmalls 11:57 PM - 11 October, 2011
Nope, don't you have to buy it??
djcerla 3:19 PM - 12 October, 2011
I think BPM detection in ITCH is very good; the best on the market being Mixmeister BPM. a free app that I use when ITCH cannot detect BPM or for maximum precision when I do mashups on a DAW.
breakermixer 3:44 PM - 12 October, 2011
Quote:
I think BPM detection in ITCH is very good; the best on the market being Mixmeister BPM. a free app that I use when ITCH cannot detect BPM or for maximum precision when I do mashups on a DAW.

You think the Itch BPM detection is better than Mixed in key?
djcerla 4:07 PM - 12 October, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
I think BPM detection in ITCH is very good; the best on the market being Mixmeister BPM. a free app that I use when ITCH cannot detect BPM or for maximum precision when I do mashups on a DAW.

You think the Itch BPM detection is better than Mixed in key?


Don't know, however, Mixmeister is perfect.
breakermixer 5:26 PM - 12 October, 2011
OK. Then I have to do some tests when I have time.
Dj SammySmalls 5:47 PM - 12 October, 2011
Mixmeister, is that the name of the app? for MAC?
breakermixer 5:53 PM - 12 October, 2011
www.macupdate.com
Antony Ellis 7:28 PM - 12 October, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think BPM detection in ITCH is very good; the best on the market being Mixmeister BPM. a free app that I use when ITCH cannot detect BPM or for maximum precision when I do mashups on a DAW.

You think the Itch BPM detection is better than Mixed in key?


Don't know, however, Mixmeister is perfect.


Do you just analyze with Mixmeister then and not Itch? I presume if you re-analyze with Itch then it would just be back to square one?
djcerla 7:58 PM - 12 October, 2011
The application is free and it's called Mixmeister BPM.

I only use it when ITCH detection fails (leaving a blank BPM value). In my experience this happens 2-3% of the times. Usually the algo proves pretty spot on to decimals.
breakermixer 12:07 AM - 13 October, 2011
I scanned some tracks from Hip Hop, Funky, Deep House, Electro House and Jungle. The first result are from Mixed In Key, the second from Itch and the last from MixMeister.

I used a old version of Mixed In Key so I can´t compare with Itch and MixMeister.

Comparing Itch and MixMeister you can see the difference in points:

(Talib Kweli-Get By) 90 - 90.09 - 90.10 +1 Points.
(James Brown-Funky Drummer) 96 - 95.98 - 95.88
(Dr. Dre-The Watcher) 98 - 97.59 - 97.57 -2 Points.
(Jocelyn Brown-Somebody Else's Guy) 103 - 103.14 - 103.15 +1 Points.
(Seba Recalde-Deepure) 123 - 123.00 - 123.00
(Afrojack and others-The Way We…) 128 - 128.36 - 128.00 -36 Points.
(David Guetta Feat. Usher-Without You) 128 - 128.00 - 128.00
(Village People-In The Navy) 128 - 126.61 - 127.27 -66 Points.
(Flash And The Pan-Waiting For a Train) 135 - 135.02 - 134.89 -13 Points.
(Foul Play-Being With You) 155 - 155.07 - 155.06 -1 Points.
(LTJ Bukem-Horizons) 158 - 157.92 - 157.92

The tracks highlighted in blue had problems with the beat grid. Pic: www66.zippyshare.com
djcerla 12:27 AM - 13 October, 2011
Actually, ITCH detection has decimals. Just double click the value in Library to see them.
breakermixer 12:56 AM - 13 October, 2011
Oh yes, I know. The first data without decimal is from Mixed in Key not from Itch.
djcerla 7:40 AM - 13 October, 2011
Quote:
Oh yes, I know. The first data without decimal is from Mixed in Key not from Itch.


uh sorry I misread
darkside2551 11:55 AM - 18 October, 2011
Hey Thuht itch has a problem detecting beats on songs that start with just vocals, here's how to fix that
1. delete the beat grid completely by hitting "Delete" while in edit beat grid mode
2. hit "X" on the first real downbeat (The drum kick)
3. adjust from there,it should be right on if the bpm is correct

img593.imageshack.us
horrible song to "test" serato's beatgrid on,she just talks for 30 seconds

img820.imageshack.us
cooler than me is off because the bpm isn't right.....its actually 130 BPM
sometimes you have use (Or have) BPM Counting Skills and not rely on software all the time.
Mr. Goodkat 7:27 PM - 18 October, 2011
ssls(bridge version) sems to be slightly more accurate to me, although its prolly the same.
Quote:
I scanned some tracks from Hip Hop, Funky, Deep House, Electro House and Jungle. The first result are from Mixed In Key, the second from Itch and the last from MixMeister.

I used a old version of Mixed In Key so I can´t compare with Itch and MixMeister.

Comparing Itch and MixMeister you can see the difference in points:

(Talib Kweli-Get By) 90 - 90.09 - 90.10 +1 Points.
(James Brown-Funky Drummer) 96 - 95.98 - 95.88
(Dr. Dre-The Watcher) 98 - 97.59 - 97.57 -2 Points.
(Jocelyn Brown-Somebody Else's Guy) 103 - 103.14 - 103.15 +1 Points.
(Seba Recalde-Deepure) 123 - 123.00 - 123.00
(Afrojack and others-The Way We…) 128 - 128.36 - 128.00 -36 Points.
(David Guetta Feat. Usher-Without You) 128 - 128.00 - 128.00
(Village People-In The Navy) 128 - 126.61 - 127.27 -66 Points.
(Flash And The Pan-Waiting For a Train) 135 - 135.02 - 134.89 -13 Points.
(Foul Play-Being With You) 155 - 155.07 - 155.06 -1 Points.
(LTJ Bukem-Horizons) 158 - 157.92 - 157.92

The tracks highlighted in blue had problems with the beat grid. Pic: www66.zippyshare.com


non quantized tracks could give you different answers from every program out and still be off.
R-A-C 8:48 PM - 18 October, 2011
overall the grids need a few more manual corrections compared to traktor pro but the actual speed is good.
at least i don't care about the grids. as long as the speed is right i'm good.
Papa Midnight 4:28 AM - 19 October, 2011
You want to have fun? Beat-Grid "James Brown - The Payback", lol.
R-A-C 3:19 PM - 19 October, 2011
Quote:
You want to have fun? Beat-Grid "James Brown - The Payback", lol.

hehe, old songs are better quantisized in an external app before :-P
djcerla 3:49 PM - 19 October, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
You want to have fun? Beat-Grid "James Brown - The Payback", lol.

hehe, old songs are better quantisized in an external app before :-P


don't dare to do it orJames Brown's ghost would come haunting your DJ room in Paranormal Activity style ;)
R-A-C 6:15 PM - 19 October, 2011
Quote:

Quote:
hehe, old songs are better quantisized in an external app before :-P


don't dare to do it orJames Brown's ghost would come haunting your DJ room in Paranormal Activity style ;)

hahaa :-P
RodrigoVolta 10:45 PM - 22 November, 2011
I use MIK5 to analize my files. It's the best solution at now, in my opinion.
Some songs, specially DEEP HOUSE or EURODANCE, Itch calcules wrong BPM! Song true BPM is 130 and if calculated with ITCH it's showed at 98, for example!
VirtualDJ, Traktor, Torq, MIK or BPM Analyzer calculates the true BPM, for example, 130 and not 98 for HOUSE or EURODANCE!! ITCH calculate several songs with correct BPM, but mostly the calculate is very wrong!! It's a software bug and not songs problem!!

;-)
djcerla 10:51 PM - 22 November, 2011
Quote:
Some songs, specially DEEP HOUSE or EURODANCE, Itch calcules wrong BPM! Song true BPM is 130 and if calculated with ITCH it's showed at 98, for example!


I have a very different experience: many techno/hard dance tunes (with big boomy bassdrums) around 140-150 BPM, have NO BPM calculated at all; this is pretty strange because the downbeat is very, very clear ;)

But when a BPM detection actually happens, it's amazingly precise, and matches Mixmeister detection (the champ) up to second decimal digit. I virtually have no instances of song BPMs grossly miscalculated.
selkie 11:08 PM - 22 November, 2011
Its so so easy to put a beatgrid by hand that I wouldn't mind ITCH having not auto beatgrid or bpm at all...

simply put a beat marker at the first clear beat, and then on other 1 beat, then delete the second beat marker, go to the end of the song and nudge the beatgrid acordly...

It's so easy you can do it with the track playing in a live session
RodrigoVolta 11:56 PM - 22 November, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Some songs, specially DEEP HOUSE or EURODANCE, Itch calcules wrong BPM! Song true BPM is 130 and if calculated with ITCH it's showed at 98, for example!


I have a very different experience: many techno/hard dance tunes (with big boomy bassdrums) around 140-150 BPM, have NO BPM calculated at all; this is pretty strange because the downbeat is very, very clear ;)

But when a BPM detection actually happens, it's amazingly precise, and matches Mixmeister detection (the champ) up to second decimal digit. I virtually have no instances of song BPMs grossly miscalculated.

Yes, most of my music techno and psy musics ITCH has calculated correctly and very accurately, even as the MIK or BPM Analyzer! But as I have many songs from various genres, I've ended up opting for MIK and not by ITCH. MIK calculates any song with exact precision and when they are loaded in it automatically fits the ITCH Beatgrid! For me is working great!

I do wish ITCH has the same accuracy and efficiency than the MIK or MixMeister! It would be perfect! ;-)

But I am absolutely certain that the team of developers are doing their best to achieve this goal!
RodrigoVolta 12:03 AM - 23 November, 2011
Quote:
Its so so easy to put a beatgrid by hand that I wouldn't mind ITCH having not auto beatgrid or bpm at all...

simply put a beat marker at the first clear beat, and then on other 1 beat, then delete the second beat marker, go to the end of the song and nudge the beatgrid acordly...

It's so easy you can do it with the track playing in a live session

It's a good idea, but I have no patience to do this ... hahaha ... I prefer the automatic mode, it is more practical. While some music is beatdgrid out of position, I make the adjustment manually. But after the music is calculated by MIK, the Beatgrid fits perfectly! Unfortunately some songs have spaces "mute" in the beginning and at the end, causing errors in fitting the Beatgrid. I'll look for some software that can eliminate these blank spaces at the beginning and end of songs. It would help a lot! :-)

We have to make technology work for us and not us to it! haha ..