Ortofon needles go out fast in my experience, I would replace needles at least a few times a year when I had them.

Haha yeah, I know about that. I don't know though, I know a place where they let middle schoolers learn how to DJ and they replace their M44-7 needles less than I was replacing my Ortofon needles. They wouldn't bend they would just run out really fast. They would look fine but would lose the sharpness and then wouldn't be able to play records, and definitely not serato vinyl.

My Ortofon Digitracks wore out a lot faster than my Whitelabels and my SC35C's. And they cost a whole lot more even with my discount at the pro audio shop I work at. And when my Digis are worn they tend to distort the tone a lot more than my similarly worn Shure needles. I say Shure all the way.

When they work they are awesome, I am trying to make a switch to the ortofon s-120's, bought 2 of them, one of them works perfect and would highly recommend, then I go to turn on the other table with the second s120, it isn't putting out a stereo signal... Swapped them around, swapped needles, swapped turntables... Nada. Go to get a replacement one.... Same result mono signal... The Serato branded needles are... Useless in Serato. Hopefully third time is the charm, pretty sad though considering the price of these...

For balance, I've never had a moment's trouble with my S120s, on TTXs, Stanton STR8-150s,Vestax PDXs and Technics. I've used Stanton and Shure over the years, but I'm a Concorde convert.

Yeah, I am just having some bad luck with the cartridge. The one that does work, the signal is much stronger than my DJ-S concordes and on par with the m447's, if not better. That one alone makes it worthwhile to invest in the s-120's, IMO, as soon as I get a second one that works that is...

Sadly I bought a matched pair of S120's, both needles have "fallen" out after bedding in for the last week or so. They are not bent, the rubber mounting inside the needle holder isn't fixed very well, not in the same way as all the other needles in their range.

I raised the issue with Ortofon and they told me to basically "go away" because I didn't buy them from the only approved store in my country.

The carts are fantastic when they work, but if like me you get a bad set, they are totally rubbish. I now have a pair of Pro S needles on the S120 carts, they work perfectly.

Ortofon didn't like me talking about this on Facebook and had me blocked and all posts removed.

They REALLY don't like to be told that their new products has flaws .....

BUYER BEWARE !

make sure that you only buy from their webshop or from the approved store and NOWHERE else, if you do then do not expect any help or service from Ortofon ... I have just discovered that !! I have £250's worth of rubbish and can't do anything about it ... I bought from a non approved seller (I didn't know this) and there's no warranty at all ! They refuse to help and have blocked me from talking about it on any social media.

Their quote (I can say who from as it got me into trouble yesterday but email me directly if you want to know who and I'll forward the email.

"That is fully the customer’s responsibility to ensure the product purchased at the specific seller is backed-up by warranty.

You bought the product to a lower price, that is your responsibility and not Ortofon’s to handle with the consequences of the decision you made. "

Makes sense IMO, basically buying second hand. You never know if they used them or not.

Not bought second hand, bought from one of the largest DJ suppliers in Italy , if not the largest - they are just not on the ortofon "special list", which by the way has only one store in Italy, Spain, Germany ................. not sure about oz, but i guess it will be the same.

Oh and they were sealed new, unregistered serials numbers etc. confirmed by Ortofon themselves.

They only care that the retailer gets the maximum amount of cash for them (offering no discounts), the issue is that the product failed after only one week and I can't do anything about it.

Why Serato would partner with them I don't know, as this product line is crap, the S120 needles are really poorly constructed and by reading all the complaints about them on this forum, I can see many users are in the same position .... I wonder if they had any support from Ortofon ... I know Serato has helped a couple of users out, but I haven't seen any evidence (yet) that Ortofon have helped.

Shure Whitelabels or M44-7's (for control vinyl).

I've always disliked Ortofon cartridges, bought my first one in 1979 and immediately hated the hyped-up-sounding high-end. Also the stylus tip actually came off when setting the needle into the groove on a record after a short time. I think the next cartridge I bought was a Shure M95ED (I'm talking about home hi-fi type cartridges here).

That was actually the last time I spent my own money on anything from Ortofon.

Ortofon: crap in 1979, crap in 2013.

There is a reason that manufacturers have 'authorized dealers'

Ortofons aren't for errybody....

Yep, i stay awat from ortofons as well. They fucked up the connector pins on my 1200s and oushed them back too far so they barely made contact with the cartridge pins. I just use M44s

*Pushed

The OMs with Technics headshells are the obvious solution to a problem like this.

Say that *ish again, they ain't hear you the 1st time...

But wait...

That would mean somebody might have to manually MOUNT a cartridge to a Headshell...

#Dealbreaker...

Because your DUMB AZZ bought it from an UN-Authorized DEALER, so that is the REAL problem, vs you trying to slam their product, (which has worked GREAT for me, and countless others for YEARS), because you bought it from a cheap 2 dollar TRICK cuz you were looking for a BARGAIN.

What LEGIT company do YOU know would give you SUPPORT when you bought from a BOOTLEGGER?

You can't make this stuff up...

Hold up. They were not bootlegs. He is saying they were actually Ortofon cartridges and there is only ONE authorized dealer in the country. What Ortofon is doing is raising the price to authorized dealers so they can cover their asses when their fucked up products fail - and they will. Just look around. It isn't hard to see that Ortofon has bad and less than ideal feedback compared to Shure.

nm

I can go on all day about how bad my experience with Shure is. Ortofon, on the other hand, has treated me well for 15yrs.

You would be in the minority.

That may be true, but do the majority of djs actually know what they are doing when it comes to needles? Not you, per se, but 'djs' in general.

I sold audio/dj gear for 3yrs and I can count on one hand how many guys knew what they were doing when it came to needles. In a lot of cases, they would pay extra for me to mount the cartridge on the headshell for them.

If the overwhelming majority of problems are due to user error, does that automatically make Ortofon a lousy product?

For once I have to wholeheartedly agree with Johnny:

The ortofon styli does wear out faster. Why? No idea. That alone isn't a good thing in general.

nm

Again, maybe you have experienced that.

I, on the other hand, literally have a box full of Ortofon tips (~30 or so) that still work fine but I opted for a new set (since I had sweet discounts at the time). How many old Shure styli do you have around that you could still use? I have zero spare Shure styli. When they die, the cantilever is bent or the diamond tip breaks off.

We can go all day comparing our stories. I choose not to.

nm

I have a set of pinks scratch , blue djs and the black pro s and don't seem to have any problems with any of them , I have used the s120 and they are ok think the have a slightly higher output volt when I was looking in to it
But with all the needles I have never really been bothered to upgrade
But was looking at some shure m44-7 to add to the collection

:-)

Well that's no fun!

I never said they were BOOTLEGS, I said he bought from a BOOTLEGGER...

Meaning someone who somehow got the product, and is selling it for a lower than expected cost with little or no warranty.

Hell, how do we know that these particular needles weren't in the "Failed" batch, sitting in the "Destroy" bin, when someone decided to "Redirect" them to your friendly neighborhood "Homeboy Shopping Network".

If Ortofon isn't willing to back the person that sold it, I'm sure there's a GOOD reason for it.

LIke I said, they ain't for errybody...

This is what I'm sayin....^^^



Precisely.

You buggin'...

A correctly mounted Ortofon will last MUCH longer than a Shure...

Anyday...

But again, Ortofons aren't for errybody....

/End Thread...

this

The same way we don't know if these were in fact defect free.

We can assume all day long one way or another. Again, I choose not to.

nm

They obviously were NOT defect free.... Or are you saying it was End User error?

Again,

Ortofons ain't for errybody....

I'm not going back and forth with you Grammer Girl. I'm not AKIEM or Bezzle.

:)

Have a nice day.

nm

Sounds like he got the batch from "glue recall day"


People assume that because it's "new and in packaging" that it's legit.

I don't complain when my "Genuine Apple" battery that I bought off eBay from China for $60 swells up after 3 months. Sure, it came in Apple packaging, but that doesn't mean it's from a batch that passed Apple's quality control.

This is exactly why manufacturers have 'authorized dealers'. This is also why you can find the 'same' product for under dealer cost. AT one point Pioneer actually went as far as to post a 'non-authorized dealer' list. There is a reason it's called "gray market".

old ortofons destroy records( other than maybe just playing records at home). i remember knowing it was time to change stylii when i had plastic from the record all over the record.

LOL, checkout Girl "6" still using my own tactics against me...

You never win.

Say that *ish again!

But forreal, there ain't NUFFIN' wrong with shopping for a deal, hell ALL of us ask each other where's the best place to buy "such and such"...

BUUUTTT, you have to be fully aware of what you're plunking your money down for...

Are you paying 20% less because it doesn't even include a manufacturer's warranty?

What's their return policy?

What's their rep?

Is there a brick and mortar site that you can bumrush if you're not satisfied, or are you stuck with an internet address and PO Box?

You HAVE to take all that into account...

Now, yeah dude bought from an "Unauthorized Dealer", yet want to complain to the company? Where they PROBABLY never saw a dime of your purchase in the 1st place?

That's like someone who has a copy of a MIX THAT YOU were selling, yet he has an "Unauthorized Copy" because you see that it's a CD from a bulk pack, as yours normally has this super hype artwork that you are PROUD of, yet he has a paper CD holder, but he comes to YOU for a REPLACEMENT CD...

Cuz his is scratched....

C'mon son....

LOL cellphone and a warehouse, as we used to say

447 for scratch

44G for mix

I recommend N44G's.. you can just replace the tip I think of a 447 cart.. although the carts MIGHT* be a little different too. They are at least black where the bits are white on the 447s..

Slightly better audio quality for mixing..

For ripping, I just bought some of the last new stock available in the world for Stanton FS 890 MP4.. 2x elliptical for ripping, 2x spherical for mixing and two carts/headshells in a nice box..

Also get your M447H if u CAN still, as the technics headshells are going out of stock everywhere since out of production.

So the headshell mounted versions are getting rarer.. as are the technics headshells/wires by themselves.

They are WAY more reliable (and the wires are the right length and fit snugly) with Technics headshells than the ortofon ones or the other technics imitations

P.S. I use 447's for playing out, 44G's for home and spare sets of both when they were on special locally here recently.. $29 AUD per needle :)

If you are like me and live in Australia, since 2011 we have some incredible new consumer laws. Manufacturer's warranty is ABOVE the standard Australian laws, which mean that regardless what warranty is stated with the product, items sold in Australia to Australians are backed by our own law. Which is 'reasonable time'. There's no set rule of timeframe.. so for instance, if something is rated to last 10 years, you would reasonably expect it to last 8-12 years. If it broke after 5-6 years, you'd be covered to get a free replacment, exchange OR refund, whatever you want.

It's awesome. I'm STILL dealing with motherboard and other dodgy RMA stuff from before 2011, that I have no rights for. I just have to keep sending it back every 2 years before the official warranty for each replacement runs out, as the things keep breaking. Whereas stuff bought post-2011, it breaks once, you lose your trust in a company, you can run straight back to the store and show the fault and get your cash back on the spot. To go elsewhere, to buy another brand, to not buy it all if you want.

So things in Australia are sweet now for shopping.. I've returned light bulbs that only lasted a couple of weeks and stuff.. and keep receipts for EVERYTHING of any value. Not to mention, resale is a lot safer now.. if you include the receipt and warranty is transferable..

Just a heads up for those like me in Australia who used to have to buy new crap every time we got ripped off or dodgy people not replacing DOAs..

I brought a pair of brand-new S1 20s from a authorize dealer got them from Sam Ash They work like a charm For three months then the styli in one of the cartridges Just came out And I brought them already pre-mounted Not saying it is not a good cartridge But the style is shitty and don't last

yup and now they are discontinued

i had the same issue with my S 120s brought them from GC and returned them 4 times. each time one works the other doesn't. it was a matched pair so that is the only way i could exchange them. last set i got worked, and after a month one cart stopped. basically wasted cash but luckily my ex paid for them. been using my m44s ever since

Same experience I got S120 OMs pre mounted for Christmas and well the left styli actually came off in my first practice session so one is already going back to GC in the morning. Im not to happy about that never had a styli break off on the first day...its not my first pair of concord style needles either

Oh snap.

i guess you can buy replacements, i looked last nite, but 60$? for a stylus that may or may not fall out? shure's arent sexy, but they work.

Ortofons have a great track record. Things always get suspect when companies "Partner" with other companies to put "Branding" on items to increase sales. Something always gets diminished.

Whitelabels are....

m447s arent. 50 year old tech and they still work fine.

I just brought some m447's and I am happy as hell no disrespect but by all means people please buy the m447's you can't go wrong with them brand-new S1 20s just sitting in the damn case

My friend has the S-120s, and the stylus did fall off. However, I have had a pair of Q-Berts (white/black) for several years, going through about 2 styli a year, and have had nothing but a positive experience with them.

Same here, alerts are just a proper fit, not that they scratch very different then other scratch concordes, but using concordes on the vest axes with the straight tone-arm sucks, besides on the vestax 3000mix and the technics, . I allways prefer heads hellhound above Concorde.
Shitty job to align and stuff, but I'm gonna try a straight carbon arm on a vestax. A bit longer
, well you need to calculate it off course , but examples enough.

The review I've read were positive about the sera to stylus, but a read never to use any cleaning stuff for your cantilever and tylustip, since demiwater all of a sudden can have a bad influence on the inside of the stylus. Strange since most hi-fi people's use clean water with ISOpropanol. Only use a carbon brush and your records may only cleaned with the anti-static brush, which have many brand names , and only clean the record with a machine(money) and not by hand. Quite sure that this is added short ago. and hold the stylus upside down to clean the tip is how I allways did it. And the effect of a brush is quit limited , when you just scratched with the record..... i don't think salty sweaty fingers are healthy. the problem of pushing dirt in the grooves is allways there when using vinyl. I use pebbles with water, quite a lot of the solution after using a record for two times.
but a stylus which falls off .... Have you checked what the problem is: stylus too large or Concorde too small, and if you hold him in place by two tiny piece at the left and right side, how does it sound..... Or take the vestax way glue them together... vestax is a master in glueing some sme adapters with real glue and the screw is tinyyyyy, while they break of at a 3000mix. But a bit hot glue... Or some silicon kit. But a normal store will give you a new stylus, they have to. Good luck greets richard

IMO Ortofon concords look feminine, like a Mazada Miata or Mitsubishi Eclipse. The OM's look slightly better, because they are on headshells, but they don't really fit the headshell like a M44-7. Especially on a 1200 or the Plx. Ortofons look alright on those spaceship looking turntables.

Feminine looking lol, thats why I've never even tried them... M44-7, if it ain't broke...

Wow, you've got to have some SERIOUS insecurities to even notice something like that.

Maybe. I think its more of the psychology of the delicate look which changes the feeling of interacting with the hardware.

One of the worst situations I've ever dealt with was trying to deal with a concord without the handle and rest - had to kinda finger the arm...

M44-7 is the opposite of that.

nm

I'm a designer by heart, I've been doing industrial design since I was 16. I use to be to also be an architect. So it's just in my nature to look at things in human scale, weather small or big.

I seriously wish I didn't notice certain aspects of objects and I will normally choose function over fashion. But when function is equal, visual aesthetics are hard to ignore.

We all have a natural instinct for human relation in design. That's what dictates are fashion sense and what you feel looks right and what looks wrong. Like a fat dude in a Miata, functionally it's fine, but visually it looks odd.

M44-7's look correct on a 1200 or PLX, because the square edges of the turntable and the bulkiness of the counter weight. Concords look feminine because of it's sleek tapered design.

Yup!

Sorry for the grammar, constructing paragraphs on an iPhone is always fun. Hopefully you get my point. There's a lid for every pot, so if you're into the Concord look, good for you.

seems if anything they are very phallic in design.

LOL....the direction this conversation took.

@Niro - You having explained your history w' Architecture and Design makes your original comment about the Concorde's femininity make perfect sense. I thought you were going somewhere much more childish than that. I can respect your point of view.


Word. Yeah, I not only like the look, but also find their design functional....
especially with real vinyl.

You mean like a cats phallic?

lol

Pencil penis phallic.

might wanna google for future uses of the word phallic

Well I googled 'cat phallic' and got this:
nsfw gallery.catcollection.org

Then I google imaged that and got this:
nsfw arawak-distribution.com

So yeah. If you are thinking a feline pussy cat penis is a symbol of masculinity - ok, everyone has their own opinion - lol.

NM

Meow.

but i didnt. phallic is not always tied to cats. thats just weird.

www.google.com

here's the definition, and there is no mention of cats

lol there's no mention of concords either lol

or oranges or tigers lol

Correct, so whats the 'phalic connection' again?

And your thumb and index finger manoeuvering a small brightly decorated phalic symbol all night is a plus why?

lol

Gotta admit Akiem was on point with the cat phallic.

niro said that they looked feminine, i was just saying concords are actually kinda phallic in shape. like a obelisk layed sideways.

They do look feminine.

And they are phalic in shape, in particular they look like a cat penis.

And cats are often regarded as a 'feminine' species so there is no contradiction.

If it is a contradiction, that's fine - there is no reason we can't hold two contradictory concepts to both be true depending on context and perception.

Phallic symbols are generally not looked on as feminine, but to appease your massive internet ego, I'll agree with you.

Then the concord should not be looked at as a phallic symbol. It tapers from the base and is more akin to a cat phallic. The white label would be phallic.

One of the big reasons never jumped on the wagon.



$25 (on special) -$35 replacement stylii ($AUD) is a good reason too. M44G's worth a look in too, if planning on playing real wax any time also.



You realise you can only use spherical stylii on the straight arms, which means pretty much you can only use SCRATCH PINK concordes?

A lot of people prefer the size of non-Concorde heads.

2 years later and I cry at having got tips at the cost of $25 AUD ($20 USD). The Shure replacement styli are all double in price now, so it's actually more cost effective to go with Ortofons from here on out (unless Shure wise up and decide to cut their prices - unlikely).

Cost is now $69 for a 447 replacement in AUD.
But only $45 for a 44G??

there are a few vendors that will sell the 447 stylus for less when brought in bulk. may want to check around and try to do a group order with other djs

ha - what an ironic thread.. I've had the S120's since they came out and i have to say they are by far the best sounding needle Ortofon has put out, and as far as for the SHURES, yea good luck finding them at a reasonable price, last i checked a M44 cart, just the cart no stylus was going for over $300, gtfoh!

and i don't know why people are crying about ortofons killing the records, shures are just as bad, all needles wear your grooves out, and its how you play, stop blaming the carts and be more delicate with your equipment.

In my experience the concords eat records compared to the 44-7s

i dont care much about control tone records so if they get ate so be it. but in my experience ortofon hasnt eaten up my records anymore than the shure ones

I don’t actually use serato for regular djing anymore (I did for a while but I’m here now for the speaker info and stellar conversation).
I wouldn’t be worried about burning serato records either. The concords are louder which might be more important for serato.
I’m pretty uptight about record wear as I’ve been spinning a lot of the same records for 25 years and I plan to play them for another 25 at least :)

The M447 cartridge is around 9.5mV, louder than any Ortofon I am aware of (apart from perhaps the Qberts? I forget).

You can get Jico replacement 447 styli for a reasonable price, however there are three options to choose from. 'Standard' and 'DJ' are the main ones to consider, standard is more similar to older N447 styli (1.5-3g tracking forces), whereas the 'DJ' model requires 2.5-4g or something like that.

Will give the Jico's a try.

Jico standard for real records

Ortofons have two carts louder than the Shure S120 and the Qbert

I can personally vouch for the JICO stylii. I just got two for my M447 carts and they sound amazing. Tracking is excellent and they are the real deal. I'll be buying my stylii from JICO going forward. The two I got off Amazon don't have the stylus guard on them. The official JICO website sells a two pack for $84 that include the guard, but it's about $22 shipping. Alittle over $100 for two stylii for my Shure M447 is an ok deal to me. They last a long time from what I hear and have excellent record wear. Shure(JICO?) 4 Life!

That's probably why Shure had to stop the stylus business while Ortofon just renewed their line, hahaha hahaha

After listening to the Mojaxx comparisons, I'm thinking I might pick up a pair of mk2 Concorde DJ sometime when got $$

soundcloud.com

I have the Digital MK2 model and they are basically identical to my S120 concords in every way except for they have a much better view of the stylus tip

Nice! I got the DJ Mk2 based on real vinyl sound, but will definitely consider the Digital Mk2 for DVS only if don't end up getting Phase instead

Same here, alerts are just a proper fit, not that they scratch very different then other scratch concordes,

but using concordes on the vest axes with the straight tone-arm sucks, besides on the vestax 3000mix and the technics,

I allways prefer heads hellhound above Concorde.

Shitty job to align and stuff, but I'm gonna try a straight carbon arm on a vestax.

A bit longer, well you need to calculate it off course, but examples enough.

The review I've read were positive about the sera to stylus, but a read never to use any cleaning stuff for your cantilever and tylustip,

since demiwater all of a sudden can have a bad influence on the inside of the stylus.

Strange since most hi-fi people's use clean water with ISOpropanol.

Only use a carbon brush and your records may only cleaned with the anti-static brush,

which have many brand names , and only clean the record with a machine(money) and not by hand. Quite sure that this is added short ago. and hold the stylus upside down to clean the tip is how I allways did it.

And the effect of a brush is quit limited , when you just scratched with the record.....

i don't think salty sweaty fingers are healthy. the problem of pushing dirt in the grooves is allways there when using vinyl.

I use pebbles with water, quite a lot of the solution after using a record for two times.
but a stylus which falls off ....

Have you checked what the problem is: stylus too large or Concorde too small, and if you hold him in place by two tiny piece at the left and right side, how does it sound.....

Or take the vestax way glue them together... vestax is a master in glueing some sme adapters with real glue and the screw is tinyyyyy, while they break of at a 3000mix.

But a bit hot glue... Or some silicon kit. But a normal store will give you a new stylus, they have to. Good luck greets richard
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