should be a sticky!!

I have been following these guidelines for a while now.

the only thing I haven't done really that much is the turning everything into 640x360 videos.
It is hardly noticeable on the ones I have seen played out live. Plus there are some projectors that still do 4x3 aspect ratios that being used in some venues like the one I play at every Friday & Saturday night.

I'm just looking towards the future more than anything. I'd rather not re-crop all my videos in 2 years.

Also, uncheck your friggin "interlace video" box if the video is deinterlaced already PLEASE.

Ah-fucking-men.

Thank you.
Sticky this please.

One thing. If the video is 4x3 I can't make it 640x360 unless smash releases the secret to TNS. I tried a little bit and it just cut off stuff or stretched the video.
Everytime smash posts tns vs 4x3. I download the tns and delete the 4x3 stuff.

I use Premiere, so I don't have to worry about stretching videos. It doesn't try to fit the video the resolution.

Do you just chop it off then?

I've tried doing it with the ivtc, but it seems to chop it. Smash seems to somehow squish the pixels together without making them look squished.

I was wrong about the tns from smash.

I did a little comparison and here is what I came up with
img841.imageshack.us

The video looks cropped and looks like there is some ghosting going on too.

Crooklyn has the most strict standards for releasing videos.......you show me 1 video from crooklyn clan in the last two years that wasn't 640x480 or 640x360 with improper formating/resolution and I'll give you a dollar.

And I'll give you $2 if you can show 1 recent smash vid that was improperly formatted..........

PIcs or it didn't happen........

I don't think he's talking about pools. It's the rookie editors who do it.
maybe some pools. I know I don't do that anymore. I'll admit I used to, but it's because everyone did. I have old smash stuff that is 640x480 where it should be 640x360, but they are replacing those.

He was pretty much directly pointing it at the following....

"You see it on Crooklyn Clan, Strictly Hits, all of them. Even SmashVidz sometimes "

And yes, the old format for smash was 640x480, but I was saying recent while he was saying "smashvidz does it sometimes".....

He was basically implying that the editors on the above mentioned sites have "no idea what they are doing" which.......Im not sure about Strictly Hits, but is incorrect for CC and Smash.......

I did all of my vob rips at 720x480 from PO. I'm slowly going back through and redoing mine with cropping and frame size at 640x360. I don't have a dedicated machine for it so I'm having to do it all on my MBP when it's not being used for djing. Of course I'm also not doing video edits either.

Wait, really? You think in the last 2 years ALL of the videos on CC have had nothing wrong with them?

Here's one: DJ2Hot did one of "Money To Blow" Discotech remix.
i30.tinypic.com

And SV has gotten better recently, but you can ask Marx yourself how many times I've sent him messages on gchat about videos having issues. A few that spring to mind are the "Hit Me On Twitter" video, the "Soul Survivor" video. In fact, here's a screenshot from the "Soul Survivor" video with the original and then the "fixed" version.

i31.tinypic.com

NOW, to Marx' credit, when I pointed this out he took the video down and replaced it with a proper version soon thereafter. But my point remains -- this is an issue.

You can keep your money, BTW.

Sorry it was for the Money To Blow Cuz I'm The Ish, not the Discotech remix.

+1

Projectors are still the most common I find. If there is a combination of projector and LCD screens, I'd still rather have the giant projection screen look the best. I've messed with my projector to try and get it to do proper widescreen, but all it does it squish the 4:3 down, no matter what output resolution or projector setting I try.

All my recent rips and edits are now 16:9 when called for, as inevitably everything will be 16:9....

Shit, in the recent "Party Mover 10" video by Biggie, there are two entirely different aspect ratios in the video. The Gwen Stefani part is REALLY stretched out and the rest of the video is okay except for the EXTREME ghosting that you can see in the picture from the first clip.

I mean, Gregg... do you really think that all CC videos are free of problems? I mean... that's just two in the last ten minutes I've come up with. I can do another 50 if you'd like.

Even the labels arent free of this problem.

Watchwww.youtube.com

This new video by Flo Rida has the wrong aspect ratio.

Well you made a lot of good points in your initial post and I agree with everything except your comment about them not knowing what they are doing.

I could see it possible for a few mistakes for smash when you're putting about about 15-20 videos a week, not to mention with snipz/xtendz/etc you're adding about 4-5 additional edits per video. A simple mis-key in your script could change a lot of things. I highly doubt that Jeezy was put out intentionally like that.

Not sure about the vids you mentioned, you can't tell shit from the previews on CC, but I know that videos are thoroughly screened and quality control is very tight before they are released on CC. I mean, you're paying 5-7$ a vid, Who wouldn't get pissed if a video they bought was crap.

not too worried about that one.........i dont see that one going in my crates..........

Those aren't previews. Those are the actual CC videos. You wanted me to produce a CC video from the last two years with a bad ratio and I did 2. I know the screening process well -- I was on CC for a long time (Benny C). I know things slip through the cracks too.

I'm not complaining about SV, and I'm sure that the Jeezy video wasn't intentionally put out that way. I hope you don't think I meant that.

My point: if you aren't properly encoding EVERYTHING (which even I occasionally find a problem with a video I've done. I just did one for "Fuckin Em All" by Mickey Avalon that had a bad ratio) then, yes, you don't fully know what you're doing. If you consistently put out videos that have a bad aspect ratio (as some editors do), then I feel safe in saying you don't know what you're doing.


You're missing my point. The video that was released by Flo Rida or his label or whomever has problems. It's not JUST amateur editors who have this problem.

hmmm what can I say Benny....shit happens.

And TnS stands for Tilt & Scan. We do not squish the video, if we did it would jack up the AR. It also isn't simply cropped, we do crop but tilt up & down so the main active picture remains.

ooooooooohh i got your point, but my point was it sucks and i'm not playing it............lol

Well, fair enough. :)

I think you might end up playing it though.... I think it's gonna end up being a huge track.

ehhh maybe I shouldn't be saying that, I guess I appreciate any video that comes out............what I meant to say was, it wouldn't go well with what I play..............

so do you just crop some from top and some from bottom?

look at the link


www.djpumaproductions.com

what do you play.

I think it will work in the top40 area.

As far as Greg & CC are concerned, he just knows its not that easy to post any video on CC.

Every single video company in this world has some to show for it.

As you said yourself you have made mistakes & have gone back & fixed them. Now if no one knows they are wrong I guess no one can hit up said company & request a corrected version (just as you did in the past).

But from now on if anyone has any doubts we all know we can hit up the AR master Benny C ( eX CC artist)

i play a lot of house/mashups, but just my own personal opinion on flo rida.......he had a few decent club singles, now every track that's comin out from him even with the help of other big names on the cut, I just aint feelin it...........

it probably will be chart topper but that doesn't me i'll like it.......lol

lol @ "The AR Master"

Promo Only has been bad lately also, not just the remixers. Lots of 16:9 videos stretched to 4:3

David Guetta - Memories
Chiddy Bang - Opposite of Adults
Katy Perry - California Gurls

U can usually fix it but then the chyron looks all squished.... Maybe they're not getting worse, I'm just getting better?

One rule I set for myself is I never talk publicly about private conversations...burp

ZING!

I love you Marx hahah

Promo Only has problems too.

The only way to really make sure that the videos are properly AR'd is to do it yourself.

+1

which is why I laugh when people are looking to "batch encode" a library of VOBs

correct & tilt up & down. that is a bad example & because that video has so much text, it shouldn't have a TnS.

Taking it down now.

life is a journey of lessons learned

I love the TNA I mean TNS marx, keep em coming. I hate 4x3.

You don't like your boyfriend fat. I see what you're saying now. lol

(just a joke, don't cry)

Lots of good info here.

If you have any kind of issue with a video then E-mail support, the editor in question will learn of the mistake and a fixed video will be issued. The editors will do this but they wont like it, so they'll have to sharpen up.

If you're noticing repeat offendors then you have a choice, you don't have to buy from those editors, each site has an extensive list of editors, and their skill and technical knowledge will vary.

I agree with your advice on AR and FR, this is basic information that any editor should follow, although projects with multiple video sources present an issue.

Full screen versus widescreen, the obvious choice is to leave this as is, even if downsizing. However the best solution is to apply some common sense, sometimes cropping down works, sometimes it doesn't, and in the end you've got to question whether the extra work is worth it (it can be a very long proccess in some cases).

There's no reason to stretch any videos on your display, simply play everything in its original AR.

FWIW: My personal preference, if a video was originally 640x480, is to leave it at that resolution. I'm glad SV is giving the option of the original along with their tns versions.

There are also a fair number of 4:3 projectors still being sold, and they're not disappearing anytime soon.

Aside from that, the original post (and the thread about IVTC) ought to be required reading for anyone doing video edits or running a video service.

I agree with the concept but few things look cheesier than a chryon cut off by cropping. Argue what you will, but I will live with the bars on -some- videos because of this. Otherwise let the cropping begin!

I've started ivtc'ing and cropping the po vobs I have and sometimes I have to get it just right so I don't crop parts of the letters in the po chyron/text. I have to get it right in the black space between the text lines (for 640x360) only.

Oh, and two more things.

If you are using a piece of software that automatically leaves on "Frame Blending"... TURN IT OFF.

In fact, I'm guessing that this:

i30.tinypic.com

Might actually have been frame blending, not a frame rate issue.

Second:

TURN OFF DEINTERLACING. Unless you're actually trying to deinterlace the video, just please uncheck it. It makes a world of difference.

Thanks agian.

many sources come like that period, nothing you can do about it buddy. but those are basics of video any editor should know.

Man, I completely co-sign EVERYTHING Benny C has said in this thread. I understand some people could get defensive about some of the things said here, but really, if you aren't following these rules, you simply are doing it wrong. I know that sounds assholeish, but it's true. To Marx's credit, (and as I said in my IVTC tutorial) SmashVidz is one of the only services I've seen get it right 99.9% of the time. Of course they make mistakes. I've made mistakes too. It happens. But to make these mistakes every time simply means you need to update your encoding techniques.

I say this stuff not to be a dick, but rather because we need a community who completely knows what they're doing with video. If everyone starts following these guidelines, there will be no more bad videos floating around out there. I can only dream... haha

Yep, unfortunately there are some labels who don't know any better and they blend frames. Hell, I've even gotten my hands on some digital delivery format stuff from labels and they're STILL screwed up. Props to you, though, Marx. I can tell you guys know what you're doing.

well alot will be better in the future with square pixels & a big reduction in random framerates. But once that comes, the computers will be able to handle 60fps without a problem, then there will be 3d. it will never stop.

Appreciate it

For 60fps videos, I'm already doing two encodes. I do one at 60fps for future and one at 30 for right now. Unfortunately even my new i5 MBP can't handle the 60fps videos in VSL without getting jittery. I have a feeling that's a VSL issue, though, seeing how my CPU is only hitting around 50%.

yeah i cant wait to see all the fake 60fps videos that will just be copied frames grrrrr.

I love it how everyone is jumping into agreement with the author of this thread, as if the idea of working with a correct AR and frame rate etc are some sort of recent revelation.

I believe most editors know and follow the basic rules of editing, and indeed follow some of the more advanced practices. If anyone edits for any site or even just for themselves..you should know this, if you don't you're a cowboy and need to go back to video school...

think you mean Google School

60fps. can i see a sample.

mostly seen on independent videos right now. I'm done for the week, but if someone doesn't beat me i'll post a sample next week.

Then find a better source. If your source sucks, bust your ass to find a proper one. If it has blended frames, don't use that source.

That's a basic that any editor should know.

And in that example of frame blending I showed, its not like I had to work hard to find it -- it was free. And clean. And 720p. So its not like the editor who used that "Like A G6" video couldn't get it from the same place I did.

I know the 720p g6 source you speak of. I have the same one.

Not all videos can be had like that and not all of us have access to the labels.

Your screenshot of the G6 video was a remix, so the editor must of sped of the video to match the audio which in turn blends the fields. Its either that or cut out active frames which some do perfer but will give u a jagged look.

You want to talk about a jacked up video, Jason Derulo - What cha Say. Now I challenge you to find that high quality source without the missing frames. I would put money on the table that you can't. I bet the post house even has a shit copy as we got 4 copies and all have the same problem. But one of the directors assistants probably messed it up and by the time anyone realized it was way too late. It basically looks like it was rendered at 29, the rendered again back to 24. Now when post houses takes that and brings it back up to 29 ya got one hell of a problem.

Whatever at this point people aren't reading.

I would like smash to say how to properly ivtc a 29.97 video.

Brett does a fine job.

I stil feel there's something missing and I understand if you don't want the trade secrets out.

I'd love to be able to do that on a mac.

buy a PC...







had to do it...

I have a mac running bootcamp, so I sort of had a pc, but yeah still funny, ha ha.

As I told you via gchat, the screencap I provided was the same speed, 130 BPM, from the original BPM. You can speed them up without it being jacked or jagged. As for the screencap -- I can provide you literally frame after frame that has issues. It's not the video, its the editor.


Okay, that's fine. I'm not talking about Whatcha Say. If a really perfect copy isn't out there, then it isn't. Work with what is available. Even the 23.97fps or 24fps that is available, clean, etc, has duplicate frames -- then you might be fucked. We all are. I just looked at a 24fps version and yup -- duplicate frames.

What I'm saying is that at the very least do your best to find a perfect copy. The "Like A G6" that I posted was obviously available (and sped up to the same speed too) -- it takes just a minute to find it. Don't deinterlace. Don't frame blend.

When people first started sharing MP3s I remember I had a friend who was all about 320 kbps MP3s. He kept saying "lets ALL save the quality of the mp3". I sort of laughed him off. When you go on certain torrent sites, if you transcode an mp3 up from 192 or 160 to 320, they shun you -- and for good reason. You are providing a community of people up with music that is "fake" quality. It's not correct. That's what I'm pointing out. Do your damnedest to SAVE quality all through the process -- don't let it be compromised by human error. We can ALL get the scene better if we work hard. Video DJing is only going to get more popular and more common. Soon enough we'll have (as Jordan Laws said) more Trust Fund DJs out there -- lets not give them a head start. Be proud of your work. Do your god damn best to make it right.

G6 was an example I don't know the specifics, all I'm doing is speculating.

I can speculate again, maybe your perfect copy wasn't out yet blahblah.

I don't like circles, I'm not arguing, but you feel a little to strong about some things you simply can't control. But yes editors do mess up, just like anything that a human does.

This is boring m8, this is the end for me.

Im so guilty on some of these things.
one of the main reason I waited so long before jumping into strictly hits.

I was trying to suck up as much knowledge and feedback as I could before I actually
start getting money for edits Ive done...
Im fortunate to have some buds who have no problem letting me know when I do something the wrong way, and not be dicks about it.

Ive been using the vegas to do my ivtc pulldowns.
(theres a setting in avi uncompressed 2-3-3-2 ivtc pulldown)

at first I was a bit hesitant,
then 3 weeks ago, at my day job I ended up with the head of Boston university's
film production department in my office with a broken wrist.
I seized the oppertunity to get some free education... after talking and talking
I just decided to break out my laptop and get some feedback, and talk about quality
ect ect ect.
admittedly, for our applications she was a bit in the dark.
when I launched VSL and showed her how we manipulate the videos/audio in real time she was shocked...
then I of course had to explain what it is we ARE doing when we say video remix.
so, I showed her one of my more impressive vegas workflows.
and we got talking about quality...

and of course we came to the same conclusion we all always have.
source material, and getting what we are editing "back to factory"
so we have as close to a raw file as we can get.

so, I went on to show her the 2-3-3-2 pulldown to avi in vegas.
then opened the original vob, and the uncompressed avi and talked about the results.
we agreed the 5th duplicate frame is in fact gone, and as Benny mentioned we
were getting a ghost-like shot. not on playback so much, but on pausing the frame
in quicktime (but not in vlc) she pointed out as well that could be from frame blending...

it was yet another educational day, and I got invited to audit any of the department's classes on post production... so Ill be sure to be bringing back
any knowledge I can pick up.
but Ill tell ya, the community here seems to know just as much as the people with
the 50,000 college education!

JC, can you give some more insight on the 2-3-3-2 pulldown. So when you take a vob that is 29.97 you don't ivtc it before editing, you layout your timeline in vegas and render to unc avi (the edited product) but use the 2332 pulldown setting?

yeah... I read and read and read a bunch of non-dj video sites.
did all sorts of renders...
(theres a few different pulldown options)

matter o fact Im still trying to figure out which blending method is best
(using gaussian)... and the difference haveing the de-blocking filter on and off.

but yeah.
basically load the 29.97 into vegas (make sure the template is 2997 and the ratio u want.
use the cropper/pan to adjust the frame the preview window.

ya know...Im just gonna take some screenshots, and post em...
you guys can maybe fine tune THE SETTINGS.

get with me on AOL to talk some more.
> DJJOSHUACARL <

No, u have to render an uncompressed avi.

here ya go,
Puma and I worked out some if the finer details to get rid of that Ghosting.
(when working the 23.976 file in vegas(after u have done the pulldown)
>right click on the video timeline
>switches
>disable re-sampling
[leave this ON when your doing your 29.97 to 23.976 ivtc conversion]

heres a screen shot.
i129.photobucket.com

the vob on the bottom is a 29.97 vob

the one on top is the 23.976 using the ivtc.
there is NO de-interlacing, no special plugins, just the vob rendered using the
insert IVTC 2-3-3-2 pulldown template in vegas's AVI setting.
then using that file for editing, and rendering out the mp4 in vegas.

heres another shot showing the 2 differnt ways I personally get to an end result.

the same method as we spoke about.
vob to uncompressed avi + ivtc pull down in vegas.
then avi dropped back into vegas (usually for editing)
then rendered back out @ 23.976 mp4

then, the 1 step mediacoder orig vob with the ivtc script loaded in the avi synth tab
(not, its not washed out, i have my preset set with the saturation turned down a little)
this is just literally, load, set ur crops, make sure your resize is correct.
go into the reaLtime asjusts (here u can see if u need a true de-interlace) and adj
the contrast, color, saturations ect ect ect
then click start, done.
for those videos that you arent gonna edit at all.

all 4 files are here.

i129.photobucket.com

I think the 2-3-3-2 Vegas method should be fine IF and ONLY IF you are just doing straight edits with no speed changes.

The reason I advocate so strongly for performing the ivtc BEFORE working with videos is because if you change speed in your editor, it's only manipulating actual active frames and not playing with duplicates (which will just screw the video up even further than it already was).

well, after hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of reading, re trying, tweaking ect ect ect.

heres where I am at.
feel free to chime in, and correct anything im re-spewing thats not accurate.

so, in vegas... the biggest problem Im encountering is Ghosting in the VOB to Uncompressed AVI movment(where the ivtc pulldown is)
Im wondering if theres an ignore pulldown flag checkbox im missing.
playback looks good, smooth, nice. but if you pause it, and advance the frames
certain images will pop up with ghost trails, again; nothing rediculous.
but like alot of us... why settle when you KNOW perfection is out there?

mediacoder has an avi synth script tab in it.
the only line i put in was the decimate (5)
this DID in fact do the job, all the arifacts will go away, choosing the de-interlacer
(if needed) seems to where a little quality is lost)
blend seems to blend too much (u can see it in the chryons)
yadif seems to have an issue matching the colors on the images
(IE an image, every few frames with have black and white elements)

so, last night... for 4 hours I tried getting the Megui/dgindex method going.
man, that first time was a nightmare!
everytime I put in a new line, id get an error, then have to goto doom9 and read why
turns out that I needed to load EVERY DLL file I would be using in the script.
in the end I got it working.
the only things I wasnt thrilled about, even though It looked great.
I had to apply BOTH the DEINT and the YADIF deinterlacers (yes, it was actually an interlaced video)
deint alone left me with a 1-2pixel artifact on the bottom of the screen
and yadif alone left me with that off set color issue, just like in media coder.
using them both fixed both the issues.

Im just starting to tool with Virtual Dub now
(thats REALLY what I want this workflow for)
and the only thing Im not sure about it UNCOMPRESSED AVI settings
Its very simple to use....my mind says "too simple"
nothing is THIS EASY!!!
drop script. click save AVI. done?
files that ran about 4 minutes I was getting 8-12GB AVI's
with this is was only 5gb... is there any way to ensure were getting one?


its funny if you go back a year, I knew NONE of this crap.
thanks Brett for opening pandora's box.

Haha, I know man, it's sometimes frustrating but, like you said, why settle when you know perfection is out there? :)

But yes, Virtual Dub is simple. Trust me, you're not doing it wrong... it really is that easy ;) Load the AVS, save as uncompressed, then edit with your uncompressed file! Yes it's a big file but I just discard those when I'm done (if I ever need to edit again, I can just re-generate the uncompressed file again.. takes 2 minutes).

The file size of uncompressed files will vary. Since each pixel is literally uncompressed, that means the file size depends not only on the length, but also the actual resolution and frame rate. Uncompressed, a 4-minute video @ 640x480, 29.97 is going to be a lot bigger than a 4-minute video @ 640x360, 23.976 (for example). Hope that helps!

Brett B,

have you been able to just use the decimate 5 for videos and not tdeint.

It seems like every vob I try will still show interlacing artefacts if I don't choose tdeint.

In vegas, with the help of Joshua Carl, I was able to take a vob, use the 2332 pulldown in vegas and it removed the 5th frame, but if you chose the "disable resample" in vegas (frame blending off basically) it will still show interlacing artefacts.

interlace it outside vegas

de

Yes, you need to use TDeint as it basically decombs the video for you. If you're really ballsy, you can use Telecide() which is literally JUST a decomber, but if the video strays from the 2:3 cadence in any way you'll still get artifacts. That's why for most people I just recommend using TDeint since it'll adapt to pretty much anything.

yeah, this was the big push for me trying to use vegas to run that 2-3-3-2 pulldown

in most of the videos I do in vegas I dont get too much ghosting only the ones that
have tons of artifacts on the 29.97 vob.

like puma said,
doing a pulldown, and NOT having to de-interlace it will, as I understand it
will give you a great, true progressive output.

if you do the pulldown, get rid of the 5th frame, and STILL have interlacing
that means the video it in fact interlaced AS WELL AS upconverted from 23.976
to 29.97... and therefor warrants a treatment of IVTC and De-interlacing.

please for a second dont think this is all knowledge Ive had cooped up in my brain
Im simply re-gurgitating what ive picked up in the last 6 months or so surfing pro
video forums and such.

btw, I dropped the AVI from virtual dub in vegas:
640x354 (i guess leaving it at 360 would have left me 3pixel 2x black bars?)
x24 23.976 fps alpha=none field order=none (progressive scan), Uncompressed

so YAY for virtual dub!

That is why you need to crop before setting the a/r in the script.

Keep tweaking em down until all the black is gone, then set the (0, 60, -0, -60) crop

[nerd voice] Careful to not confuse interlacing and combing. What you're talking about here is a combed video, which just needs decombed (TDeint handles that). [/nerd voice]

But word, vdub is amazing. Been using it since.. oh man.. 2001?



Yes, absolutely right. If you are not making your final output exactly 640x360 (or some other 16:9 resolution) then your videos will likely end up being stretched upon playback, depending on your settings. It's best to just get everything to the same resolution as Benny C said, that way you don't ever have to even think about it.

Now granted there are some videos where you have to leave the black, that aren't quite 640x360 (usher omg, drake find your love) why they were shot this way I have no clue.

Here you go (don't worry mods, just a 10sec sample):

30fps: www.djbrettb.com
60fps: www.djbrettb.com

I neeeeeed to stress that MOST videos are not 60fps. So please don't start encoding all videos like this.

In case anyone was wondering, to achieve this (again, this only applies to certain videos that were actually shot at 480i60 for NTSC, or 576i50 for PAL) my script looks like this:

LoadPlugin("F:\Video\Apps\DGIndex\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("F:\Video\Plugins\Decomb.dll")
MPEG2Source("video.d2v")
Bob()
Crop(whatever)
Lanczos4Resize(640,480)
ConvertToYV12()

Bob() takes the two fields per frame, separates them, and then resizes them x2 vertically, which gives us 60 individual frames. I'll do a video tutorial explaining this in greater detail if anyone is interested.

I had to LOAD all my plugins (is there a way to load them all by default)
my script looked like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Joshua\IVTC\dgmpg158\DGDecode.dll")
LoadCPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\TDeint\TDeint.dll")
LoadCPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\TIVTC.dll
")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\Decomb.dl
l")
mpeg2source("03.Travie.McCoy.Feat..T_Pain._.The.Manual__Vip_Files.Net_
_.d2v")
crop(14,0,-14,0)
tdeint()
decimate(5)
lanczos4resize(640,480)
Crop(0,62,-0,-64)
converttoyv12()
yadif()

I needed to have all those loaded for all the plugins to work.
ugh.

u can see how I cropped.
maybe I did do it before the resize...Ill have to look again.

but this is what I ended up with (30 second clip)
this is using virtual dub to make the avi
then rendering the mp4 out of vegas. (sans going back into megui for the render)
www.sendspace.com

So it looks like Vegas resized back to 640x360 and since it was only a few pixels, it wasn't noticeable.

But in cases where I have to crop more than (0,60,-0,-60), I use the AddBorders feature. It works exactly like you think. For example, if I need to do Crop(0,72,-0,-72) on a video, I follow that with AddBorders(0,12,0,12) which adds black borders and brings us right back to 640x360 with no resizing.

yeah, in vegas I set it at 640x360 (obviously)
and noticed the 6 pixels of black (2 and 4)
just grabbed it and fit it to the existing 640x360 template.

Why not prep and deinterlace within Vegas, and then render out to an uncompressed AVI?
Then import the AVI back in for editing, I've never noticed Vegas do a bad job at this, although I am running the latest version.

It seems like a lot of the problems emerge from trying to do everything in one instance.

We aren't doing it in one instance. What joshua carl is talking about is taking the vob and ivtc'ing in vegas with the 2332 pulldown, render to unc avi. Take that avi and edit in vegas for the actual edit.

Yeah chris thats exactly what I was talking about.

but, a 29.97 file needs to be IVTC back to 23.976
and the vegas method of this, while it gives you a fluid good looking avi
it has ghosting like whoah in some cases.

where as megui, has no ghosting, but produces a sharper, grainy picture
(not "always" good) but there are ZERO artifacts...

so, 1 step work in realtime with vegas and get some ghosting

or use the script method, which in the end will give you a sharper, better video for editing....

virtual dub seems to give you a good avi.
and u can apply the megui ivtc script.
I think my workflow will be virtual dub vob to avi (unc)
avi to vegas for editing
render from vegas (people talk about black loss and such, but if you go with 2.222 and 32 floating pixel u get none really)
only with 8-bit + 1.000 (linear) do u see washed out blacks.

and to completely honest.
we're obviosly a bunch of dudes looking for the best possible resolution.
but at the end of the day, on the screens, the level we are already at
we are certainly splitting hairs alot.

I use ConvertToRGB() instead of ConvertToYV12() in my Avisynth scripts for converting to unc with vdub, and I've never seen any black loss.

And yes I fully agree that right now we are splitting hairs... but in a few years? We'll start to see clubs upgrading to complete 1080p HD setups with HDMI going to every TV. Then the crowd will absolutely see the difference. So it's best to just have the best possible material from the start, so that later when everyone else is worrying about re-encoding all of their crap videos, we'll already be ahead of the curve ;)

oh, I meant that VEGAS's stigma for rendering mp4's has always been washed out
colors and untrue blacks.

+1

this has been working GREAT for me

To save the project, I replace the avi with the VOB, and only keep the VOB on my hardddrive. If I ever need to redo the edit, I can regenerate the avi from the VOB

you can SOOOOO see why 60 is the proper encode in that.

I dont think ive ever seen that video look so good.

question is...

how do you figure out if its 480i60 576i50 ?

Good question.

Well, last night I tested out the telecide() vs tdeint().
Telecide worked for a vob I had. I'll post up a sample. I don't have screen shots of the comparison, but it's pretty minimal, but it seemed the telecide was a little sharper

Wow, it really does. It almost looks too good, if that's possible.

Basically the same way you figure out whether a video is 24 or 30fps. Use bob() instead of tdeint() and if there are two duplicate frames, then it's a 30p video. If there are consistent individual frames, then it's probably a 60i video. It's pretty easy to tell when you just play the VOB... if the motion looks extremely fluid (like live TV or a home video) then it's probably 60i (important to note that you must be using a bob deinterlacer when watching in order to even see this).

It definitely looks sharper. :) I have been trying to use that more and more when possible. This is something I learned more recently.. I'm still figuring things out as I go along too! But again, only problem with telecide is if the video cadence is even a little less than perfect, the whole thing gets thrown off.

Benny C, sorry for hijacking your thread. LOL

No worries man, the more talk about improving video quality the better.

Yeah I checked the entire video to make sure it looked smooth and it did.

I wish megui and avisynth could work in real time.
I hate having to adjust crop, save, reopen preview, crop again, over and over until it's perfect.

Agreed. It sucks but well worth it :)

so, what happens when the dvd vob is @ 25 fps, and a video like this is
60i ...then what?

50i or leave it at 25?

thats what I figured. I tried the BOB

and it left me with a slow motion video

It's the same thing, just 50fps.



Your encoder probably muxed the MP4 at 30 instead of 60. Try remuxing at 59.94fps and it should work!

I hadnt even gotten that far, just dropping the script into megui
gave be double frames.
(its the pump up the jam video as well)

is there a chance that a 60i video, at some point by the DVD company
got so jacked up in processing to the dvd that you cant get it back to 60i?
(Its thats not a video service dvd, its a consumer grade dvd...)

if you place your plugins in the AviSynth 2.5\plugins folder they will autoload. if they are in other locations then you will need the LoadPlugin command.

yeah...I read that, and did that.

someone mentioned on doom9 that if it doesen't u might need registry repair :(

just try a reinstall with the latest version

It's entirely possible. Could you post the whole avisynth script?

I had the same problem.. did a reinstall and they were all there!

sure..
I actually trimmed it down to bare bones... just to see if it would play at reg speed

4 files, all played in almost slow-mo.
none had duplicate frames (except the time I tried to do pump up the jam)

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Joshua\IVTC\dgmpg158\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source(Beastie.Boys.Intergalactic.d2v")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\Decomb.dl
l")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\TDeint\TDeint.dll")
lanczos4resize(720,480)
Crop(0,0,-0,-0)
converttoyv12()
decimate (5)
tdeint()

Ive re-installed 3 versions.
3.5 3.4 and 3.2 (the most downloaded from the site)

and I still need to load the plugins, even though all are int he megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\

It worked yesterday... I dont know what I changed...I was looking for a 1/2 speed option in the player or something.

thanks guys...I think im gonna look into a good registry cleaner

I usually put tdeint and decimate above the first crop

Yep, always put TDeint() and Decimate(5) before you do any altering to the videos. Otherwise TDeint might get confused about the interlacing.

For 60i videos, this is pretty much my exact script:

LoadPlugin("DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("video.d2v")
bob()
Crop(whatever)
Lanczos4Resize(640,480)
ConvertToYV12()

you also want to make sure converttoyv12() is the very last line of the script. you want all processing to be done in the native color space, not in yv12.

awesome...

well it didnt hurt I went and grabbed CCleaner.

11gb OF CRAP!

Thanks Brett!

yeah... no dice... must have clicked a setting somewhere

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Joshua\IVTC\dgmpg158\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\Decomb.dl
l")
LoadPlugin("C:\users\Joshua\IVTC\TDeint\TDeint.dll")
mpeg2source("Beastie.Boys.Intergalactic.d2v")
decimate (5)
Crop(0,0,-0,-0)
lanczos4resize(720,480)
converttoyv12()

still getting slow motion.
I might try a remove, then complete re-install of megui.

wow...
I even broke it down to only:

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Joshua\IVTC\dgmpg158\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("Beastie.Boys.Intergalactic.d2v")

and its still loadin in slo-mo in the megui viewer (and output)

Im wondering if it has something to do with DGIndex

Is there anyway to get dgindex to read other files, mov, mp4, avi,mpg?

jc, my megui always played in slow motion (1/2 speed???). are you saying that the megui preview was playing at full speed for you before?

oh yeah, as of yesterday it was.
and more importantly my outputed file is on slow motion.

what versions is everyone using?
I was gonna do a vob-avi in virtual dub...then ill know if its that or dgindex.


side bar:
if u click on tools/script creator you can choose all these settings in realtime, and it will output a script for you!!!
cropping, de-interlacers, decimates!!!

re-installed...
reg cleaned.
seems to be working....
maybe my MeGui player didnt play at full speed in the first place.
I could have sworn it did...

maybe im just a bonehead.

Haha, hmm, MeGUI has never played full speed for me :)

how can you ensure that the keyframes are ideal for VSL?

Ive done a few videos now, they look great, but even in quicktime searching through
the track Im gettin some lag...
Ill probably just revert to goin avi to mp4 in vegas...

I use sorenson and you can set how many keyframes, when I used to use vegas I would end up getting like 20 to 25 avg.

yeah... doing the vob to avi, avi to ______________ i can get the files just how i like.

but when usiing megui to goto an mp4 i didt see a spot for keyframes.

I saw the tut on avi to mp4 with megui, but I like sorenson.
once again another step in this mad mad process, but worth it in the end.

I still have tons of po crap I need to render to mp4. It's so much easier to just drop them in a program and convert them all to 640x480, but they'll look like ass.

FMylife.

this seems like the biggest thread jack of all time.

Our bad dj lad, but it's all relevant.

Maybe we need a sticky of proper encoding techniques for videos.

No, it's totally fine. As I said, the more discussion about proper encoding the better.

quick question. when going from vob to uncompressed avi for editing you guys using virtual dub, what settings are you using?

i'm using my avisynth script (courtesy of brett b) but wanted to know what you guys are doing next in virtual dub (i.e. file->save as avi, video->full processing mode, audio->direct stream copy, etc).

much obliged

Thats what Im doing..
while I am/was a strong purveyor of the Vegas 2-3-3-2 pulldown method
I could not defeat the ghosting issue on some of the videos... it wasnt insane.
shit, not too many people noticed for a solid year now.

but now I switched to the script virtual dub method.

I do my edit in vegas and render straight from there
(using the 32 floating bit x 2.222 video setting with a .1 contrast boost/black restore)

working like gangbusters

damn i feel so behind, yall are talkin astrophysics to me

ive been on this forum reading and searching non stop for a week since i just got vsl

this is serious nerd talk here man.

OCD and Perfectionists at its finest.

check out doom9 to, its a good video forum for production and such

i'm sitting here with premiere, after effects, virtual dub, scratchlive forums, adobe help all open. yep some serious nerd talk going here lol.

hey, im down with the nerds, i need to learn some how - just wish it was faster for me - i dont have enough nerd freinds who are into vid production

Im feelin the same way to!