if thats the future, id rather slit my wrists

lol but think about it... with Midi controllers everywhere now, this form of djing should be on the rise... right??? its creative as hell give it that atleast...

A good friend of mines is beginning to do something similar with 2 Traktor X1's - and just a line into the mixer (uses crossfader in Traktor - not the mixer). He's got one X1 mapped as his mixer for fades, EQ's gains, etc, and the other mapped for effects.

Traktors effects are light years ahead of Serato but I think 2.1 beta is making progress in the right direction

Pretty sweet for "not really DJing:" (automix button pushing).

^agree
now dont get me wrong ppl can get creative with turntables and cdj's but NEVER with a midi controller mapped like this dude (cool arcade buttons btw) so idk why this form of ''djing'' isnt quite accepted...

street fighter dj. coming to a club near you.

Stop hatin' ... He actually did a good job.

I remember thinking he same thing of CD DJs, but they do just a good a job if not better in many cases than those who stick to TTs (like me)

He's just a different type of DJ. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh...almost forgot...djdalite, here's your razor

agreed.

and complete waste of a rane mixer..

i honestly thought it sounded like shit.... but thats my own opinion. i also thought having 16 arcade buttons next to a 57 deserves a lynching...

Talent is talent... E.G is talented...

This type of midi dj-ing is already common place - if you only read the voices of protest on this forum, you may think not...

But venture to other dj forums around the net, you will see there is a growing sub-culture which has already embraced this..

I just want to hear what it would sound like without the sync being used.

i understand what your saying but i figured to bring it to the attention of the serato fam even though its 50/50 on the like and dislike of his routine that is original and extremely creative... its 2010 i think while most of us hate this concept its time to stop hating on it and embrace that this type of djing from the looks of it is here to stay...

thats actually a big question of mine, are they mixing the tracks?
i see no tempo adjustment tools

All I saw him doing is was juggling cues with the sync on.Now Im not hating because he is talented and very good at what he is doing but it sound almost to perfect.Maybe someone here has traktor and they can give us there feedback.

well its simple really... its all sync but good timing of the button pushing is still needed... even if ur not fully onbeat with the button pushing traktors sync and tempo correction will keep things together no matter how hard you work it. i dont think it would sound nearly as good with sync turned off because most of his routines (if not all, online) are with sync fully engaged... but that shouldnt make his routine automatically wack if thats where ur going with this...

Why not? If the sync is on and that's the case, how is this any better than what most Ableton cats have been doing (better) for years? I see nothing impressive here. Did it soud good? Sure, to throw on in the background while doing something around the house or sitting on the porch drinking beer, I could listen to it...but it was like watching paint dry. And with sync on it's even more of a snoozer. Yet if somebody doesn't like this "automatically" they're "hating" or they're not with the times. Just black and white when it comes to their opinion and up for discussion when it comes to yours.

Seriously, it's like watching a guy playing a video game, I don't care if he's good at the game...like my brother who is awesome at his X-Box, I'd rather smash my head against the wall then zone out watching...what...his...game...is...doing ..on... screeen...What is this guy doing different than my brother? He's playing pre-programmed sounds that are synced to his game controller, no different than one of those music games.

People need to ease off with the "get with the times" argument. "That's where it's headed" Who cares, there will be markets for both, just because others don't like to watch a guy on stage playing with his joystick, doesn't mean they're a dinosaur.

It's like when I have to Dj internal mode, I don't need any fancy controllers to pretend I'm doing something "creative" or "innovative" , I make the shit do backflips with key commands, but cot damn it must be boring as hell to watch me just standing there.

A lot of people love the music I produce, whether it's original or remix type stuff, I try to push the limit as far as technological advancements allow, they jam to it in their cars, play it at parties, but I guaruntee you not one of them actually wants to see me sitting there at the boards staring at the screen pushing buttons making the shit for more than 5 minutes. Maybe other engineers would, but regular people... not so much.

And before I get called an angry bitter hater from 1902, like I said...this is something I would listen to. But within 4 seconds I was bored to tears since i already knew what he was doing. Could you watch some guy on Youtube doing baby scratches for more than 4 seconds if you can already flare, crab, twiddle, etc?

Imagine if you weren't a DJ and were confronted with this performance in a club.

That's the best way I can think to put this or any other new technology performance into perspective. For the dancefloor, for the most part, it's the end result and not the process that counts.

As a DJ, you might not like to watch it. But as long as the floor is full then that's all that matters to the performing DJ.

These "button pusher" arguements are moot - especially when many here already have midi controllers...

+1

That's exactly my point, no regular person is going to want to watch this. By the looks of this thread some Dj's don't even want to watch it. So there's no point in silly arcade buttons or controllers when you can just premake this shit anyway and press play. That's essentially all this guy is doing, triggering pre programmed/mapped out sounds. But put a dude like Enferno on stage, people actually want to watch.

Can someone explain why he needs a Rane scratch mixer?

I'm not against the MIDI Dj's, quite the contrary, I'm saying just because people aren't impressed by this guys stuff, especially when you factor in the sync...you can't call them haters.

Every noob Dj who just posted their fisher price "my first MIDI controller" video link, and bought them because everyone else did... "what does the bridge do again? I so need this" think it's us who are behind the times when MIDI controlled performances are nothing new, hell a 19" rack dual was essentially a primitive version of that. Just because these cats just found out about these gadgets YEARS after the fact all of a sudden it's us that need to get with the times when it's actually them if they just found out about this shit.

These are the SAME "Dj's" who go on spouting off bullshit to veteran Dj's about "the times" with their expertise and then a week later you see "My first gig next month? HELP!". Dude, you were never even a PART of the times to come tell me about whether I'm behind, ahead or on the dot.

This is nothing personal against anyone in this thread (especially not Scratchworx), just trying to set the record straight from some of us who aren't as blown away as these microwave technologists who are just seeing all this shit for the first time.

No offence taken at all. It's all good discussion here.

I think it's difficult for us to look at a DJ from any other perspective than our own DJ one. Yes, watching Ean totally focussed on his MIDI fighter might not be entirely riveting, but it's the crowd that matters and what they think. DJs are the worst people to go to a club as a punter, and that's exactly what I encounter on forums. We need to detach from our own agendas and think about what the crowd wants. And most of the time, all they want is great music and generally couldn't give a toss about how it's delivered to them.

So at the end of the day, regardless of your opinion of the technology, Ean would rock a club with that set. And that my friends is all that matters. He plays to his audience, and you play to your with the tools that work for you.

Another important thing to remember is that no matter how sad this may sound at this point the whole "this isnt DJing thats not real" ect ect ect isnt even a debate anymore. Its not worth bitching about everything is heading in a future direction and no matter how you hold onto the way it was and the way it should be its NEVER EVER going to go back to the way it was, you can continue to do things the way you want to and thats fine but all the arguing complaining and bitching in the world isnt going to turn back the hands of time and make the culture what it was

Where did I say anything about any of that, matter of fact, where did anybody in this thread "bitch ad complain" about the future?





See that's what I'm talking about here, there seems to be some sort of auto-response, if somebody doesn't like a particular Dj's presentation or isn't impressed by what he's doing, it's that he has different ideas on technology. Why would I cite Enferno if this was my problem? I have always been about technology, I made the move to CD's when all my vinyl-saur buddies made fun of, when they finally moved to CD's I was already on Serato (which I had been DYING to try out since before it even had it's patent) And when I saw Enferno doing what he was doing maybe 5-6 years ago, I was like "Damn!! why didn't we have that in the 90's when I was with a Rock band and had severe limitations?". I had to lug around an MPC 2XL with a shitty syquest drive, a Korg keyboard, no real options as far as what he wave to day to lock with the rest of the band, I hated it because I had all these crazy ideas in my head that worked in the studio with multi-tracking, but we didn't have the resources on the road. I am a technology junkie. the bridge is something I've dreamed about for ten years because of what I just explained in a band situation. And I don't care if everybody thinks "ALS. mixtape is gay" I can't WAIT to get on it.

As far as I know I have never said anything about advancements in technology in this thread, to the contrary I eluded to the fact that I think what he's doing is primitive. Yet as I said, I'll get called the one who's" behind" by new Dj's who are only discovering these little toys and i do mean toys now.

We are Dj's, on a Dj forum, discussing Dj technology...yet somehow our opinions are irrelevant because "the crowd doesn't care anyway?" I'm sorry but I call bullshit, my opinion is much more relevant than the person who doesn't even understand this technology since it is our feedback and needs that shape the market for these gadgets. The more we give in to "oh...the crowd doesn't care anyway" the more the actual performance is deleted from the culture...with this attitude we are helping to kill our own scene.

With all due respect, I disagree with Dj's being the worst punters. maybe in some cases, you have the dudes that go out to the clubs, head straight for the booth, try to talk accesories and all the gigs they play and blah blah blah, and if they don't get love they go in the corner trash talk the guy about how all his mixes suck and they had that "edit" first (even though if you asked them to chop their own track they'd first have to post 12 discussions on a forum about "how to record their mix" before they even got to that level of what is the most god awfully simple in production technology)

And then there's people who have been in the club scene all their lives, there's me who goes to a bar and doesn't even want to look at the Dj booth, and even if i know the Dj...he's the last dude i want to talk to. I watch crowds. I watch how they react to new tunes, I watch what they drink, i watch what they wear. I play full 6 hour Open Fpormat nights, Rock nights, Hip Hop Nights, Reggae, Retro....You think I don't know what people want? I am a working Dj and have been since 92. I've watched scenes come and go and come back again, I've also watched the crowds interest slowly move away from the Dj to the "host" or the celebrity VIP, and why? Because the Dj isn't doing SHIT! I myself am guilty of this.

I was the one who said the crowd doesn't care in one of my first posts, but it was in relation to shit that goes over their heads, it's also in relation to a guy standing there doing nothing and I draw that from my own experience. I got to a point in my life where I hated my gigs, because they were no longer there to see me, they were there to see the club. But I realized...I haven't given them a a reason to see me. I've had the same complaints from bar staff and bouncers about other Dj's "Wow...the crowd really lights up on your nights, you put on a show Shamann...the other guy doesn't, none of us even know his name"

So you see they do care if you give them something to care about. But the more we shrug our shoulders and say "ah fuck it, they don't care anyway" the harder it will be to actually wrangle them in when the actuall impressive shit comes around. This guy isn't playing Shakira records in a bar somewhere where they really don't care, he's playing a "performance" type set like a frigging video game... Pre-programmed, pre-planned, autosynced up boredom at a podium like Guy Smiley thew game show host. The only difference with a video game is there's actually more random shit going on so it is more entertaining. Again, it's not fear of technology, I would be much more impressed watching what some of these Ableton geniuses can do. There are guys who can blow him out of the water just using Ableton and a mouse, let alone when they start adding their keyboards etc.

And at the end of the day to further hammer in my point, if nobody cares about all that turntable-jugga-jugga look at me shit, how do you explain Dj AM, Vice, Klutch, Spinbad, A-Trak (and countless other popular Dj's) and the turn out to those parties like "Do Over" and shit like that?

Forgive me for the essay, waiting on dinner to cook LOL. I doubt anybody's even gonna read all that shit. ;p

IMO there isn't any skill involved there.

Wow, i seriously got off track there, too many points that had nothing to do with what I was originally saying. It's like this, at the end of the day if the guy rocks sets...so be it, good for him and his people that are entertained by that. Like I said, I would deffo download a mix like that and listen on the porch. But as a Dj on a Dj forum I'm not going to get called out by some newjacks because they're ignorant to what other amazing tehnologies are out there, because they're too busy being self impressed with their Fisher Price "My First MIDI Controller" while I no longer am.

Again Bezzle...where is anybody bitching and complaining about the future?

because their all complaining about button pushing....the future of djing is in button pushing and automation

Maybe the lynching comment, but others just aren't as impressed with the set. My own reasons for the comment you quoted, too basic... I understood right away what was going on. like I said, why would i sit there and watch a guy repeatedly doing babies when I understand more advanced cuts? But where am i saying anything about the future? I've repeatedly said I am for technology and to the contrary think what he's doing nothing new, except it's being done from an arcade game controller from 1983....yeah, future!

i wasnt directing the comment on anyone in particular, just puttin a thought to keyboard

Is it really? This is what I'm talking about, some of you really have no idea how long even better technology has been out. But a guy does it from a toy you've never seen before and all of a sudden it's "the future"

Everybody make way for the future!! Cue points, FX and loop rolls guys, i know you've never seen them before, err...wait..oh yeah, we have them on Serato so maybe you guys have....but these have AUTOSYNC!!! Future guys...future.



;p

while im not a ''newjack'' dj... im very well aware of the midi dj's out there that exist and rock set/parties... now while the midi controller isnt new so to speak, its becoming more popular and more accesible to the dj... 50 dollar midi controller now would cost hundreds back in the day so it itst new just more affortable for ppl have a crack at it and do things like on the vid... its easy to think this isnt the future but 5-10 years ago was the equipment hes using this portable? efficient? affortable? easy to use?

Dont forget Ns7 and its equivilents are still midi controllers

even look at products like the dicers that turn the acutual turntable into a heavy ass midi controller

i really enjoyed this mans set. I understand alot of you old schools guys use turntables but honestly how many new turntables have been release over the past couple of years. Not to mention that how many vinyl albums dropped this year lol.
Dont get me wrong i love my tables but controllerism has been around for awhile now. So many different midi controllers alone dropped this year. I understand alot of people arent ready for change but its coming guys, its just the way it is. That midi fighter that hes using is dope and cheap it does the job. Check out the djtechtools.com site and get some insight of whats going down

theres alot of new vinyl out acutually, hell they sell it in FYE and Best Buy now

isnt fye going out of business

i think most CD stores are lol

lol year itunes etc.. taking over shit now real over head on putting product out there anymore just click and download more cost affective

typo yeah no over head anymore with jewel cases and cds more cost affective just click and download

That's kind of my point, as I said 19" dual racks were pretty much caveman MIDI controllers. Most of what dude is doing in that video you don't even need a controller Dropz, so I don't know why you think the debate is about portability or cost of said controller. Too many people are being mezmorized by accesories these days and calling out people who have seen alternatives, just because they think it's some old school vs. new school thing when it's not the case.

The only difference between that video and what we can do with Serato is a few FX and autosync. Know your shortcuts, now your program and trust me, with a little slight of hand you can make even the basics look like "the future" LOL.

The Bridge is where you're going to see some real creativity shine, so many more doors opened, so much more opened to improvization vs. these preproduced to the tee, then watch me hit buttons type sets. And from what I remember from the promo videos, the features we know about are just the beginning.

I'm the best at pluggin' an iPod to the main system and playing uninterrupted, unmixed music. My crowd loves me.... cause they're idiots.

Oh yeah, I must be the best at what I do because they don't know any better.

Oh yeah, and before I forget, that also makes me a DJ.

SMH at scratchwackx opinion.

... and everyone else's opinion who think what he's doing takes skills....

PS. Controllerism isn't DJing or it would be called DJing... not controllerism.

Yes. Some DJ's use MIDI stuff TO ADD TO THEIR DJ tools.... but they're still DJ's.

Its a form of djing... nowadays u dont even need to turntables or even a mixer to be considered a dj... ive seen ''dj's'' use an apc40 with ableton and they consider themselves a dj just like everyone else... if the midi controller can do everything for you (mix, pitch bend, select tracks, fx ect ect) is that not djing? or should this be under the controllerism bracket?

Just because I consider myself Jesus Christ... doesn't make it so. I am, however, God.

Fixed.

People often confused "playing music" with DJing. A jukebox will never be a DJ... and it plays music.

a jukebox doesnt juggle cue points or adds fx, or changes tempo, mixes the songs together either...

or gets emotionally excited by pushing a button or twisting a knob....

^^^ Haha ^^^

:)

I don't understand this thread, isn't this what everyone will be doing once they get the bridge anyway? This wasn't my favorite set, but I'm all for diversity in the club scene.

Also, I don't think the average gamer would be able to pull of this set, just coming from from dj-hero. I believe Mr Golden would have to practice/perfect this set more than once to get these results.

This set might not be DJ'ing in the classic sence, but personally I prefer this to a jesus pose...

The things I've read in this thread, are the same arguments people was telling me once I moved from vinyl to SSL.. ;-) I mean, let the dude do his thing, this style of playing is fairly new, at least in a "historical" sence. Leave it some time, and I'm sure well see some nice stuff in the future. I remember being stoked when I first saw this one -> Watchwww.youtube.com

www.gamertagpics.com

Not many turntables need to be released anymore, it's an established technology. There is no point for Technics/Vestax or whoever to be releasing a constant stream of updates when they don't need to. Their development money goes a lot further if they keep the product on sale.
MIDI has been around forever but the new form of controllers is only just really taking off, hence the consistent stream of new controllers coming into the market. Eventually when all the companies have their formats established I would expect the consistency of updates to stop.

oj...that u??

your right those guys twisting the knobs and pushing buttons will never be on the level with the guys moving a disk with their wrist

I rather watch somebody playing Street Fighter 4 on a High Level game.....This is old news just like what the others mention people using Ableton have been doing this for quite awhile.


Good programming though.

I wasn't talking about Dj Hero.



That's what makes it less impressive. Had there been more improv I would've been more impressed. There is nothing new in what he's doing. Ableton dudes have been doing much more complicated shit than this for years...on the fly

ill stick with my ipad midi lol

There's only one way to push a button. There is an infinite amount of ways to manipulate a record.

Real talk

I made this as a general point, whether it's DJ Hero, Battlefield, or any other console game, it does not matter. He might look like gamer, but I still think anyone would need quite a bit of music experience to do this thing.

But, yeah It does not look that impressive compared to a real tablist, I absolutely agree. I assume that might be one of the reason visuals have done well for a lot of these midi guys.

And gizmo/skratchworx is right: For the dancefloor, for the most part, it's the end result and not the process that counts.

i always call REAL djs as real-time dj's
and everybody else who thinks that he is a dj as non real time dj's

djing for me means that i'm mixing on the fly and i'm not working 3days on every fucking set and just after the 8th recording my mix sounds right....
i simply hate automixing djs and what fucks my mind the best is that they think they are always perfectly matching the beats with traktor, but what a fuck if i can hear that it is out of phase??? they always say that i'm wrong.... oh god but i can mix without breakbeating with an analog piece of plastic and one mixer....

i hate wavies!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon six - you're better than personal insults.

Let me try and explain my feelings a little better. I fear people may think I'm some sort of button pushing advocate over everything else. Far from it.

Let's say I got to play a Hip Hop gig - maybe warming up for a DMC event or something. If I were to turn up with a MIDI fighter and button-push my way through MOP, WU Tang etc etc, I'd probably be dragged outside, hung from a lamp post and beaten like a piñata. Well certainly some of the places I go anyway.

Certain scenes have certain styles inherent to their culture. Hip Hop DJs have credibility if they use vinyl, be it real or control. I'd sure as hell never insult a Northern Soul crowd by turning up with anything but classic 7" vinyl either.

But in this EDM world, anything goes. Vinyl has little relevance to the latest wave of club kids, who routinely download all their music (ideally legally but probably not) and have no physical media at all. They're not tied to the old ways, nor do they expect new DJs to be using vinyl either. For this crowd, it's absolutely fine for DJs to embrace all technology and use it all to the fullest. For a new and progressive audience, new technology isn't as frowned upon as more established and traditional scenes.

I think more than anything, the golden rule of DJing still comes into play - the DJ plays to the crowd. If that Hip Hop crowd demands turntables, then that's what must be used. If however, the new progressive sub indie glitch tech house crowd wants to see a laptop DJ hammering buttons rather than old fashioned turntables, then so be it. As ever, the crowd decides what is OK and what isn't - not the DJ.

Why do you think Qbert still rocks real vinyl? Can you imagine the trepidation Z-Trip felt the first time he decided to use SSL? These VIP DJs use what the crowd wants to see. Likewise Ean Golden is a busy and respected DJ by doing what he does. His audience loves it - if they didn't, he'd be out of work.

No DJ should be so arrogant that they think they can turn up and play whatever they want with whatever gear suits them. Likewise if Qbert or Z-Trip turned up with CDJs or heaven forbid an Ableton controller and decided to play Techno, they'd be bottled off the stage. The crowd are not idiots. They simply expect the DJ to respect them and play what they want to hear. The audience determines the success of the DJ. Just because they don't like what you might play, it doesn't make them idiots - it means you failed as a DJ and misread the crowd.

Nobody is saying you have to use it, but it has its place. You just have to use the right tool for the task at hand, but above all make sure the audience is happy with it too.

i dig it for what it is...people say it isn't skillful...skills aren't the end all be all...the best athletes aren't always the best (football, soccer, etc) player

oh and don't let the fear from striking out keep you from playing the game

a stitch in time saves nine

I don't see a link here to Ean's web page so i'll post it for people to have a look at. You'll have a chance to see that Ean is not just a one trick pony, more over he is a pioneer in his field. Best of all he helps other people to learn new skills.

www.djtechtools.com

turntablists check this one out...DJ Craze

Watchvimeo.com

Old school djs still have their place and I listen to some great sets with just decks and CDJs and use them myself.

I use both and Traktor runs rings around Serato. Hands down. Try the demo get used to the interface then enjoy being able to analyze tracks without unplugging hardware (why serato why??).

No one forces you to use the sync button, but for speed of mixing it can be very handy

The only thing serato has in it's favor is the Video plug-in, even that's a bit whack, being highly format limited.

If Serato moved away from programing on the quicktime API they could add more formats. But I don't reckon thats going to happen.

That was a great little set and a cool way to utilize the technology. I thought the use of cue points and track selection was very creative. Better than I can do anyways. I'd like to see more.

Yeah, he's actually doing shit, that's dope. Do you people read threads before you come in with stuff like this though? Seriously, everyone from myself to anti-controllerist Sixxx himself never said they had a problem with this.. multiple times. The point is, put Craze beside a dude with a joystick in front of any crowd and guess who's going to be more fun to watch for more than 2 minutes. Don't hand me this stuff about "only to Dj's" as if every single person in this crowd is a Dj...


Watchwww.youtube.com


Or this one

Watchwww.youtube.com

Or these

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com





or (you get the picture)





So old school Dj's are people who use turntables and new school Dj's use buttons?

Jesus Christ.








Really? I thought that if I didn't I was going to get in trouble if I didn't, and after all this time that I've been using it too. Thanks for setting me straight. You've changed my opinion on auto-sync users forever now that I know it's actually optional.

If this is what you think the issue is, you clearly don't get it and are better off not trying to educate us in the future. Sorry dude.

Something...anything...

But I can't take the "crowd doesn't care anyway" argument, it's selling Djing short...it's selling the crowd short. Like I said, my opinion is my opinion from personal experience, my gigs suffered drastically when I "accepted" the "crowd is just a mindless bunch of fucks anyway, they don't care" attitude.

Literally last week one of my best friends came by all drunk and flat out said to me "you know why I stopped coming to your gigs? You don't look like you have fun anymore, you don't mix it up or nothing, you don't even play records anymore" and this is coming from a guy that knows shit all about Djing, but he knows about partying. He's wrong about my play style since I got my groove back a while ago, but he didn't know that... alot of people didn't know and it's why i rarely them make it out to jams anymore, they can put quarters in the jukebox much closer to home.

Give people more credit, give them a show, they'll thank you for it.

That sounds like it has alot less to do with your equipment and more to do with your enjoyment on what your using....the crowd DOSENT care if your using 1200s and vinyl or all midi in tracktor unless its and on stage performance where your the focal point of their vision. Most clubs ive been in have a DJ booth and you have no idea what hes using, all you hear is the final product. So ya if your in the DJ booth moping because your using MIDI controllers and not "mixin it up" ya your final product will relflect that when it comes through the speakers and the crowd will know but if your on an IPAD with a SNEScontroller but your back there havin the time of your life the crowds gonna be happy with the product

My biggest beef with this isnt even the fact that its button pushing.. its that it just sounds like ass. Its a messy clusterfuck of sounds with no musicality or rhythm. Give jazzy jeff or someone a setup like this and it'd sound pretty good but nowhere near as impressive to me as rocking turntables.

Actually it's not Bezzle, I know you like to play devil's advocate, but you're out of your element. Most clubs you've seen? You're what six months into your first residency? In a town of how many now? You're way off. Like I said, my buddy knows shit all about Djing, for all he knew i was having the time of my life... but it's a much different show when I'm standing there like Guy Smiley at a podium playing exactly what the crowd wants from their radio playlist, to me actually doing something different to set me a part.

Contrary to forum "in crowd" rules I like playing to the floor, I take requests... although people just let me do what I do for the most part. That's not the problem, I lost my identity. Do you understand that?

It's early (actually late, I haven't slept so I misread that) I thought you were saying we'd be arrogant if we showed up and just played on whatever's there. I was going to say that's what makes a true Dj to me, not the gear of choice or crutch that they can't perform without, but being able to show up and adapt to whatever is in front of them.

When my laptop took a drink I played off CD's for 3 weeks, I didn't even need to (I could'a got a loaner) but I felt like doing it for a sort of breather, it was fun and at no time was i stressed out by not having what I'm used to so it was party time regardless.

You do realise you dont have to work in a club to walk in and see how its set up right, ive been going to clubs for over 14 years ive been clubbing all over the south east from texas to Fl from the gulf up to memphis, so ya ive seen a few Dj booths and i have vast experience at being a club goer so i know what im talking about there. Mabye its different in canada but down here 99% of patrons have no clue what the DJs using because hes not in sight of the general public, hes either up high off the floor or in a seperate booth

(ps its my second residency but its the first where im the headliner ;) )



Once again your talking about what your playing and not what equipment you are using

And once again, you have no idea what I.. or you are talking about so stop trying to catch me in something. I don't care how long you've been going to clubs, as a Dj you don't have the experience to understand what I'm saying and it's clear since I'm going to have to spell it out for you, it had nothing to do with moping or what was visible.

My buddy was seeing me at my work gigs, not my specialty gigs. "Work" as in disc jockey for hire, play for the patrons. I would show up to bars where they had what they had and I would play on it, regardless of brand, format etc.I did my job and I did my job well enough that I was always asked to stay at said bars, go in to the other bars that were owned by the same team etc. I was like a nomad playing on whatever was there. Some smaller spots wouldn't have turntables etc, I would leave the records at home and I got into the habit of this, "they don't care anyway! Fuck it!" I got so comfortable with being the go to guy at these bars filling in for whoever fucked up whatever gig, got comfortable with less than stellar residencies because they were easy. Nobody knew my name so it's not like it hurt my "career", I got paid to play Top 40 with no imagination... easy fucking money! yeah! But then I started to realize, yeah...they don't know my name, they're not here for me, they're here for the bar. Thing was I had been doing this so long that I realized my calendar was full of gigs like that, and not full of gigs where people I actually knew were. I was no longer Dj Shamann...I was just "the Dj" I lost my identity.

That's not very attractive to people who want a night out on the town, who's going to travel across to the other side of a five borough city with 2200 bars in the core as an obstacle on the way, to some bar with some guy playing Lady Gaga records because "that's what the people want to hear". Even though I was actually playing a wide variety of music people no longer cared, because of me saying exactly that... "ah they don't care anyway".

There are some cats that are cool with that, and the more that actually give in like that the more the scene suffers and the more people really won't care since there is an exact carbon copy version closer to their house, so it's no longer a unique experience. But after I realized what was happening I realized that I wasn't cool with that. I switched up the play, and now I'm back in action.


You focused on the one minor detail from my buddy that said "you don't even play records anymore" even though there was more to what he said...and even though I said he doesn't know shit about Djing.... you translated that into I must play from 1200's only, when I've repeatedly said it's not about that... just so you could argue the point. A point that you clearly didn't understand.

+1

I am beginning to hate the 1/32 loop roll, sounds like shit, un-natural like the software is fucking up UNLESS its done on a fade in or fade out.

I have no real problem with DJs who want to rock Midi and push buttons (its just not me). The club I spin at now, most of the DJs use controllers and Itch or even Virtual DJ and line out. I feel stupid dragging in a HEAVY set of 1200s and mixer to do my thing, does the crowd care? Probably not but when I rock a good set with my control vinyl it males ME feel good.

My friend Eddie Fowlkes who I spoke about earlier in this thread is going to rock Midi controllers & Traktor at our Detroit House Music Picnic in a few weeks, I'll see if I can record video.

Probably not but when I rock a good set with my control vinyl it MAKES ME feel good

Oops No misquote

No your the one whos not grasping the point...My entire point is that the crowd does not care what equipment you are using to play the music, their worried about what is comming out of the speakers, where in that entire post did you make any evidence that they care what equipment your using???

It was never about what I was using, that's what I'm saying...I was never arguing that...you were. You assumed I was moping around because I was unhappy with the gear, I told you it wasn't...you kept on.

ok.lets break this down, my original point as you illistrated here





is that the crowd does not care at all what equipment you are using, do we agree on this if so go to page 6 AKA: Ending, if not go to page 8: please let me know where in your rebuttals you show any evidence of the contrary, keeping in mind the entire theme to this thread is about equipment\controlerism

Dude...seriously. You quoted me talking about something, you misunderstood it...I told you it wasn't about what you think it was. you came back and said "oh yes it is". you don't even know what you're arguing anymore.

ey ey ey.....ok you win you know the point i was trying to make better than i do, i misunderstood my own thought and what i typed really want what i was trying to convey, you obviously have a better grasp in what im thinking than i do and i was mistaken in thinking that i wanted to convey that the audience dosent care what equipment your on obviously i was really talking about something else and didnt realise it LOL

You came in and assumed it was about my moping around because of the equipment i was using. I said it wasn't. You came back once again said...



So what is it Bezzle, am I miserable because of the equipment I'm playing on...or am i miserable not because of what i'm playing on... but because of what I'm playing? Am I even miserable at all? See what I'm saying? You never grasped the original point so you tried to pick out small things and argue them because that's what you do, but you just ended up confusing yourself.

Ummm, pot...kettle...black?

It's you who assumed you knew what my mood was in, in what booth and what my buddy meant, and when I told you it wasn't...you again begged to differ.

Heres what your buddy said...the reason he dosent come see you is as such




So right there you have someone telling you your not having any fun, and as i said in the fiirst original post IF YOUR NOT HAVING FUN IT WILL SHOW IN YOUR FINAL PRODUCT!! If your not having fun behind the decks your mix is going to lack energy












Heres what you posted



You entire post started out with "But I can't take the "crowd doesn't care anyway" argument, it's selling Djing short"....In the middle of a thread dealing with equipment, in the middle of people saying that the crowd dosent care if your using midi controllers or turntables or if people are or arent "real" DJs because they push buttons so the argument SHOULD pertain to equipment thats why my next post was about the CROWD NOT CARRING WHAT YOUR USING, i just assumed your post would have some kind of relevance the the conversation it was posted in the middle of and not a random bitch about music selection and droppinjg to the crowds level



Your right i must have misinterpretted " You don't look like you have fun anymore ", he obviously meant your were having a GREAT time and really enjoying yourself while performing

Dance monkey dance! lol

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!1




you know the answer but you dont realise the question.....we ALL know im a devils advocate, but has anyone bothered to figure out who the devil is


MUAHAHHAHAHA

I used to genuinely think this kind of thing was the future. In 2002 I wrote the first DJing tutorial for Ableton 1.0, I used to hack up my MIDI controllers and write middleware and drivers for them, spent a zillion hours chopping up all my songs into phrases, I wrote elaborate effects and control patches, the whole 9 yards.

Then I came to realize that an extreme level of control is overrated. Generally speaking I think it's better to just play songs people love and let *them* express *themselves*. My $0.02.

rs

I also told you my buddy was drunk and he doesn't know shit about Djing. you should be less concerned with how he conveys his thoughts as a drunk civilian than you should be concerned with mine as it's me in the thread who elaborated more than once. As I said, you focus on the wrong detail and blow it up into something else.



I also said this right after it...



As I said, don't focus on what my drunk buddy said but my thoughts after it..




From the perspective of who Bezzle? From a guy who doesn't know how to explain anything about Djing. Fun could mean that I stopped drinking in the booth and started taking things more seriously so I could do my job first class, which could be boring to my drunken buddy. it could also mean that I'm taking less risks with my music...he also said "mixing it up" which also could mean my playstyle instead of how much juggling or what technical scratch I'm doing. What do you think Bezzle since you're so good at deciding what everyone means... what was a drunken civilian who doesn't know anything about Djing was referring to when talking about how i mix it up? Me actually mixing up the play instead of playing all the top hits and playing whatthe easy sheep route, or was he was he referring to whether i was doing enough triple click flares?

I know exactly what he was talking about and followed up with a story and then AGAIN...a further explanation. You weren't there...yet you're still sarcastic enough to know what he was "obviously" talking about?

See what I'm saying Bezzle? you focus on the wrong thing and it sent you on a wild goose chase. All you had to do was read me say "it's not because of that" and that should've been it. Instead you analyzed the second hand words from a drunk you never met to form your opinion on what I was saying and telling you wasn't the case right here and now. You focused on the one sentence from my buddy which was just a lead in to the bigger picture... which you obviously missed.

I'm talking about why it's not good for the scene to dismiss crowds and you're trying to catch me in a fuck up so you can be right about what mood you think I was in and why. Especially when I clearly told you it had nothing to do with that.

And YOU of all are the last person to talk about staying exactly on topic dude...seriously!

;)

i think there are a lot of closed minded scratchlive users. Thinking that the only way to djing is using 2 turntable. The game have changed a lot these days and ppl are looking for more creativity, dont get me wrong u dont want to go to the club bashing button all night when ppl want to dance but rather than just mixing one track into another but mix it up a lil. Whether its scratching, button mashing, using effects, introducing the song over the mic. Come on, we are entertainers and we all have different ways of showing our differentiability.

That was from almost the beginning of thread Bezzle, so don't tell

Too many assumptions and generalizations thrown around.

1. Scratchnsniff already said it. Some crowds DO CARE what you use and how you use it. Come to Cali if you don't believe me. It's no coincidence that I have a kid hitting me up every month asking if I know anyone who will do an even trade .... his CDJ's for turntables.

2. I'm not anti-controllerism. I could care less for it. It really doesn't affect me. I'm just against the idea that controllerism alone makes you a DJ. Pushing buttons to me is boring... even when Craze did it as he never once touched the damn record on that demo on that video you posted. And, before you comment on that video and my opinion of it - go check out that thread.

3. I'm not against DJ's pushing buttons. First, however, come skills. Then, you can ADD to those skillz with other tools. The DJ has been pushing buttons for many years (making beats on stage using an MPC). But you gotta make it interesting. Different. Creative.

4. I'm God.

5. I'm also Satan.

I said anti-controllerist, as in the MIDI only cats, if you mistook me, it was not my intention to speak for you. It wasn't really meant that seriously either.





???????

Watchvimeo.com

lol wut? hes not enjoying it because OF the equipment..




I am speechless. I really don't think that applies to anything outside of your town.

Looks like he's doing some record toucching in that one

Yeah I'm not sure where Bezzle's train of thought was on that, but the train was definitely on the wrong track...and a few hours late....































And had a bunch of dirty homeless men trying to hop on the back of it.

;p

Ok so please clarrify for me here

So you REALLY think everyone in the crowd knows the exact equipment being used by the dj in the booth?? You really think that if yuor rocking a party hard on something other than techs that people will dismiss your show and leave?? Do you think that if you let 2 DJs record a mix in private one using Techs 1200 and one using an NS7 that a random club goer would know which one was done with which piece of equipment??Or do you NOT think that someone having fun in the booth is going to have a better final product than someone whos bored and ready to get out of there??

My bad... I thought you posted the one from the other thread. lol

fixed :P

I can clarify this for you.....

A turntable is a hard piece to miss. I know when I'm setting up and people see me setting up the turntables they come up and ask questions. I also know that many people respect me because of them (and my skills on them, of course). And, I also know that while many in the crowd don't care, there are a bunch of regulars that do care.

[qyote]Do you think that if you let 2 DJs record a mix in private one using Techs 1200 and one using an NS7 that a random club goer

This isn't a Pepsi vs Coke test dumbo.... people actually want to interact with the DJ out here in the clubs.

oh damn... i sure fucked that up.. hahaha

hey ive come up im djing several bedrooms now lol

Writing an essay every post against midi controllers isn't going to change anything...

I guess some of you guys have blinders over your eyes if ya don't see midi djing is blowing up. Many here confusing the orginal question with "what djing style makes a better dj" & "is using midi controllers more fun than turntables"

Venture to other dj forums once in a while or even closer to the Itch forums...

The scence is evolving whether you like it or not...

i find myself agreeing with RR alot more now adays and that disturbs me...ill need some time for intraspection (NM)

Apparently you're the one with blinders on if you think we're writing essays against MIDI controllers.

Seriously, how many times has this been established?

I suprised you didn't write an essay as a reply... Lol.

hahahahahaha. Exactly.

Venture out into the world and you'll see just how old and primitive this shit really is. if you think this is evolution it's you that needs to get with the times...whether you like it or not.

hahahaha

Another exa

wow... stupid forum... that should read: exactly...

If it huwts your wittle bwain, don't wead it

;p

lol

I think either that gig was the best think that happened to you - cuz your perspectives seem to be changing OR you are maturing OR you just losing that Bezzle mojo...

nah im just going to chalk it up to brain damage frome excessive drinking at my gigs and lack of sleep lol

It might hurt your fingers more - typing a mini novel and still failed at convincing anyone-- Bezzle has you writing paragrahs all
morning..

hahaha

ssssssh!!!!!

What's even funnier about this statemeent is that you consider going to forums as "venturing out" as if it's on the cutting edge of technology vs. actually being out in the world experiencing it for years.

Yeah i'm going to a place where half the topics are "help.. how do I record my mix?!?!" and "you mean I'm not supposed to leave the rubber on my turntables?". Yeah, real cutting edge beacons of information there. Like I said, a bunch of fisher price "My First MIDI" controllers and now everyone is all of a sudden tomorrow's technologist.

Convincing anyone what?

that noone cares what equipment your using!!!! Its all in yuor head as a dj

And I've got both of you responding right back, who got who doing what? i'm hear for my own entertaining reasons. i know it flies over both your heads though.... that's okay, keep up with your research on forums, one day you'll be a Dj too!

When did they start putting rubber on turntables?? I think your confusing the itch forum for DJing discussion (the place your in now lol)

Yup....

If it's in your head that I was talking about that...So be it

;)

As in when did turntables start coming with rubber? Ummm..I dunno, 40 years ago?

As in, when did users ask such questions? i dunno...two days ago?

I have seen some of the best 'DJs' and selectors on reggae soundsystems who never beatmatch or blend songs. Its just about tune selection.
The danger I feel with digital DJing, serato CV, Ableton or whatever is that there is too much choice, the MP3 library is too big and it becomes a question of ego and performance rather than record selection.

But as far as performance skills go.... turntablism has to have it.
basically I am nowhere near Kentaro but could get feasibly close to Ean Golden (as long as he shows me what to do...)

in the itch forums??

think about it??

I've never been to the Itch forums, think about what?

Choice is good, if we all used the same thing it would be even more stale than it already is. ; )

What type of equipment would come with rubber...in the itch forum...itch being the serato product designed to be used with midi controllers.......

Unless you're talking another type of itch forums, I wouldn't be laughing at someone who didn't take their rubber off. ;p

But since you're talking about Serato, only the VCI's have rubber on them don't they? What does that have to do with users here..in this forum, not knowing enough to take the rubber off their turntables?

Lol @ the real world - how is the air up there in canada...

Nah choice is good but too much record choice can be limiting! How many times can you hear 7 nation army with an accapella ontop?

my point is if you are using an IPAD w/ an SNES controller you are going to sound like shit and an Internet Enabled JUKEBOX would be a MUCH better DJ and by your logic would rock the crowd HARDER than you ever could.

How would you sound like shit?? Using an ipad as a controller is sending timecode midi signal to the SL software, you know what else does this?? Thats right a turntable with timecode vinyl, you manipulate the midi image the same way in both cases with forward to backward movment, and what are you doing when you hit a button on your SNES controller? Your sending a midi note to the SL software to activate cue and loop points...you know what else does this EXACT same thing?? TTM 57 sl and HC1000. All the sound is processed outside of the manipulation hardware so both will sound identical. So how would you NOT be able to rock a crowd with this?? The answer is you can and the only people who would be bitching are other DJs who do things differently

facepalm....shaman you really need a nap...follow me on this, heres the original post



He told you to venture to the itch forums......the itch forums are for controllers ala something like the NS7..no rubber on controllers.....he told you to look in another forum and you answered with



ummm if you were talking about a user in THIS forum you
A) didnt stick to the original post
B) You ARE in a place where "half the topics are "help.. how do I record my mix?!?!" and "you mean I'm not supposed to leave the rubber on my turntables?". " yet you began the sentence with "Yeah i'm going to a place where ", which would mean you WOULDNT go to a place like that yet here you are

These are not the only forums where people ask stupid questions Bezzle, he said other Dj forums first, I've seen way worse questions than in here ;)

I do need a nap but I leave for tour tomorrow and have some last minute cramming to do.

lol ya ill admit i missed where he said another dj forum i thought he just said itch

I couldn't understand why you didn't get the turntable/rubber thing.

LOL

Ah well, no biggy...































































(smalls is da illest)

lol the really messed up thing is on this forum i really can picture someone buying a midi controller and not realising you have to take it out of the box or plug it in or something lol then you end up with threads like "HELP!!!! Im new and just bought an NS7 and i still SUCK!! I put the box near my computer and nothign happens WHEN IZ DA BRIDGE COMMIN OUT!!!! WILL TRADE MUSIC FOR INFO"

this thread sucks now

too much bitching

...look, see now im bitching, fuck

I NEED IT NOWZ..I DUNNO WHAT IT DUZ BUT I NEE-EEEEE-EEEEEEDz IT!11!!11

I wasn't referring to the sound quality. I'm referring to the fact that even if you could blend or beatmatch with said setup.. it'd be boring as all fuck -> sound like shit. Might as well just have virtual DJ on autopilot doing the same thing.

How would it be any more difficuly\boring than a real turntable, you manipulate a pitch and a platter the same way you do on a technics

Classic. Hahaha

Chances are high no one will even read this far but here it goes anyway:

First of all- I am stoked that the video sparked so much love and hate on both sides. That's a great sign- it means this type of djing is hitting a nerve. I switched to djing with a mixer and a controller over 6 years ago (after playing with turntables since 96) and we have come a long way since then. This video is one more step towards creating a dj interface that is musical, fun and exciting to watch.

SYNC

I used sync about 50% of the time on the drops in instances where it gave me time to do other things. I have 4 controls at the bottom of the midi-fighter which match turntables (pitch, tempo +/-) so manual beat matching is used when its needed.

In the times when there is no time for manual beatmatching or no benefit to the mix then I use the miracle of addition and subtraction to help me out a little bit.

An interesting side note- Many Serato djs basically use sync and dont even realize it. They match the BPMs visually as Serato display's the relative BPM of the playing track and then match the waveforms visually to line up the phase. After this VISUAL SYNC they then adjust the phase and BPM more precisely by ear to get the blend perfect.

How people can criticize folks for using a single button press to accomplish a VISUAL SYNC more precisely is beyond me. When Sync is used, additional adjustments to tempo or phase are almost always needed in the club as no 2 tracks line up perfectly. It's this final step that is most critical and can not be skipped. How you get to that 2nd step; visualy, by by ear or using a button should not really matter.

CHALLENGE

The challenge here was to dj with only 16 buttons per deck and do some creative and interesting things with it. I encourage you try something new sometime- it may not stick but you will grow as a performer.

I practiced this routine for at least 1 month, and there is no disputing that the mixes pulled off are very challenging to do- even when sync is used from time to time. We have a contest on DjTechTools.com where people can take the songs and create their own mix interpretations. I encourage everyone to completely show me up and do something 10 million times better on turntables, CDJ's, guitars or whatever you happen to enjoy. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is:

*how did the music sound
*how expressive was the performance
*did you have fun?

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

BUT -using our eyes and hands - NOT letting the 'puter do most of the work. I have had a few klippty klop mixes to prove it - LOL.

I'm on vacation Ean Golden. I will post a proper response to the garbage you posted when I'm back to DJ mode.

"Now tracking discussion"

hot garbage...... i dj with my heart not by BPM range!

Ean, great post. I would encourage others to post vids of something creative they are doing. I was skeptical of the whole controllerism movement at first until I tried it. It seems sometimes I have more fun with an X1 and a mixer with Tpro than I do with a pair of CDJ's or decks etc...

is your name DJ MICROWAVE?

That is exactly what I was think. You just put it in much more "HR" friendly words. I was just gonna say, "I think what Ean Golden does is F. R. E. S. H. fresh fresh fresh yo, that's fresh!. If you didn't know of Ean before this thread then you been sleeping. I don't personally ONLY use controllers, I MUST have TT, their the most essential part of my set up. But that's me. The button pushers are here, get on board or get the hell out the way. And when "The Bridge" enters the scene (if it ever does) I believe we will see just how dope this shit is.

Here's some of the world top "button pushers" in my opinion:
DJ AKD
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ Enferno
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ Rafik
Watchwww.youtube.com
Even Craze is doing pushing a couple buttons
Watchwww.youtube.com

im not saying you CANT push buttons but homie is playing a video game not djing!

as far as sleeping on this dude, na i have seen some of his tutorials for "WACKTOR". VERY microwave IMHO!

Ean keep on doing what you have been doing.

We will see a lot of these cat's using the Dicer in 6 months or sooner. Hope they find out about the history of the dicer and the midi-fighter.

Embrace technology like you embraced Serato, be a foward thinking dj. Serato introduced midi to SSL because they saw it was going to be the future of dj-ing.

Peace to all the dj's

All the hatred we see here is the reason why I set up the "Midi Fight Club"-Party in Berlin's Tresor next Friday.
At that event everyone will spin using midi-controllers/production-gear/trash cans/whatever. It just doesn't matter and it shouldn't.

There is still too less acceptance among vinyl-heads, even most DJs I know personally.
It's the last great hurrah just like the days CDJs were introduced.

Another absolutely priceless thread. Nothing changes.
There is Itch in the same stable. There are Serato DJs using the VCI 300.
There is the Dicer which is set to the HUGE which is in Serato in part.
There is a new version of the software that "Bridges" the Ableton gap (eventually).
There is a new RANE mixer with more buttons that the space shuttle.

And still the p*ssing goes on and on and on about Ean Golden and DJTTs and Traktor.
10/10 for this one guys.

Serato is moving forward guys.
Move with it or at least accept that its moving forward and get back to discussing the love of music.

Peace. Love and Music.

Amen to that Karl.

whats everyones problem with playing video games...video games are fun

It's amazing how history repeats itself. When I started DJing it was vinyl or nothing, and I would constantly run into people who would say "you're just playing records; there's no art to that." Then CDJs come on the scene and vinyl DJs went apoplectic about the loss of vinyl "warmth" and control. Then DVS and, well, you know the story. When I started using Serato I was like, this is a neat toy that will let me carry fewer records to gigs but it won't ever replace my crates. Then I learned about relative mode and loops and started doing a lot of different things I could never do with vinyl. Now I use Traktor and MIDI controllers and my options (and skills) have continued to evolve. It's odd to see Serato DJs -- some of whom have perhaps never beatmatched without looking at a waveform -- complaining about the "SYNC" button. Guess what, you guys aren't playing records either! And even if you were -- when it comes down to it, Ean is right, the beatmatching is just mathematics. Personally I love to beatmatch by ear and I often practice with regular old vinyl because I enjoy it -- but I'm not going to sneer at up and coming kids who would rather spend their time learning other skills and equipment. Letting the computer do the math for you means more time to do other things, like juggle loops, mess with effects, layer samples, and even scratch patterns on a real turntable.

The thing about math is, computers are really damn good at getting it exactly right every time. Do you do your taxes with a pencil and paper too?

Vinyl was "cheating" when it emerged as technology to replace live musicians.

All that really matters is what comes out of the speakers.

+1 pretty much

lol

musicians - vinyl - Cd's - DVS - Bottons - *****BULLSHIT***** Djing is an ART, pushing bottons is not art

I think button pushing can be an art and have no qualms with those that put out dope sounds from whatever control method they choose to us.

I just happened to not be that impressed by the end result of his set--it didn't come across as particularly musical.

Pushing buttons can be art. Ask any keyboard player.

setting cue points on a song and then just jumping around the song and putting efx on it!!!!!!!

wow!!!!! thats so cool!!!! new!!! and innovating!!! everyone that sucking this dudes nuts needs to get of his nuts and get behind their equipment and come up with their own ideas. What he is doing in the video is very simple and not hard at all especially when you have SYNC and all your doing is hitting cue points!!!

stutter,echo efx!!!!!


get of his nutz

Such anger.

LMAO. Just give him some credit, i mean he knows how to dj. I would say its creative, but its true most people can do this. Its actually nothing new. Deadmau5 does it all the time lol.

I've kept an eye on this forum for a long time, but never had a need to post anything because I'm usually ducking for cover from all the negativity being hurled around. But I'll step up to this one. Seriously, some of these comments are just painful to read.

I've been djing since '96 - vinyl, analog mixers, moved into adding some production hardware into my vinyl dj sets, moved on way later into midi controllers and software. I can speak from experience: To the dude ranting about 19 inch racks and how there's nothing new, you don't really get the point. The point is, the midi gear and software we were using back in the day was clunky, a bitch to program, and prone to failure at just the wrong time. The point is, you're seeing midi djing blow up the way it is because today's hard and software has finally caught up with the creative ideas we had back in the day. The point is, using this new tech, we have been able to break out of a mold and explore new directions in djing fluidly, reliably, and with top notch sound quality. The whole package is coming together, and at a price that doesn't require a second mortgage.

I don't know about you, but my daydreams back in 1996 were about what I could do with the SOUND, not about my turntables. I (and others) are starting to get a taste of that daydream.

For the Record: I still have my TTs, all of my vinyl, and even use them at the occasional gig. I have a great love for Turntablist culture, still scratch it up and beatmatch just because I enjoy it. So don't even start. I have much less love for "DJ" culture, because it includes trolls and ego driven dudes with some weird bone to pick about buttons or sync or whatever. It astounds me. I bet traditionalists were having a hissy fit over Frankie Knuckles trying to beatmatch reel-to-reel tapes with drum machine recordings over his disco vinyl set too. But yeah, I guess the fact that we have house music now is a bunch of microwave crap.

Gotta do some homework: There seems to be some kind of fundamental non-understanding of how some of these systems work. Did you know that there's no requirement to sync tracks in Traktor? How about tempo control? Yep, you can move a slider to your heart's content, and do it all by ear. Without messing with any advanced functions, it does what SSL does, or in fact what any turntable does. It plays back a recording. Wacktor? Thats' funny. Dumb it down and it's somehow better, right? Well, you can go as simple or complex as you want, to each their own.
And this "Automix for you" concept? Hate to break it to you guys, but it doesn't exist and won't until we can dj telepathically. Matching a tempo is just a mechanical by-product of trying to create a seamless musical flow. It is NOT an art. The Art is in selection, phrasing, timing, style, and above all, rocking the house. If you have a bpm display on your screen, regardless of what you use - you are using a machine to lighten the load, sorry. No software in the world is going to tell you how and where to make your drop, and as Ean said Traktor djs have to adjust things all the time, just like everyone else.

A final word about Ableton and The Bridge: I like that some posters have noticed the hypocrisy surrounding this idea. So, "button pushing" is gonna be making it's way into the SSL mainstream... Then since it's Serato and has the Rane label slapped on it, it's legit right? Somehow less of a video game and more serious. Try this on for size: (can't wait to get hammered on this one) "The Bridge" concept has already been duplicated on a single controller and computer running TPro, Ableton, and Bomes MT. It's a beta but it's stable and runs in perfect sync. I know because I and others have been working on building it for a while. Why am I saying this? It's not to call out Serato - I'm sure The Bridge (let's hope it's not vaporware) will be awesome. It's just to make the point that it's just another step in an endless progression, and that nothing is really new or worthy of getting your panties in a wad over. It's not the buttons, it's how you you press 'em ;)

Much respect to Ean Golden and his infinite patience and maintenance of a good attitude with all this sh*t talking, not to mention the HUGE resource he's been to the community. Big ups to the posters who recognize that controllerists are here to stay. We've been doing this thing for years now, and it's only getting more exciting. And to the DJ Tech Tools forum, where people are f-ing smart, helpful, and have a positive attitude. OK, rant over.

BTW- I played to a Northern Soul crowd on an APC40 and single turntable. They loved it, and I love mixing up the future AND past!

I respect dj's more when they use turntables couse i know how much skill it takes to be good on tables.I got 14 years on TT so my perception is different,but Ean's set was tight for just using midi controllers that he makes and sells.I'm not on his nuts but if i made midi controllers i would make a few videos to show what it could do.He probably will enjoy his royalties from all the dicers Serato users are going to buy.[he invented them]

I think the point of controllerisim is to extend the art of DJing beyond the turntable. The art of modern DJing has moved beyond beatmixing - which was originally a "trick" used by savvy DJs to keep a crowd on a dancefloor and dancing during song transitions. The person who taught me how to DJ back in 1987 was an old school disco guy who used glass ashtrays inverted over the record labels to do rough pitch bending before the 1200 was released with it's pitch fader. Beatmixing evolved once the tools became available into something more like an art form, where DJs would blend songs not just to keep patrons dancing, but to create new sounds. The same kind of evolution happened in the scratch scene, where a once utilitarian function (cueing a record) turned into a way to create new sounds (by cueing directly to the breaks, or opening the fader while cueing). And again, once better tools became available (higher torque, better tracking needles, more suitable mixers, performance crossfaders, etc) , the art form grew and became more sophisticated. At this point, DJing stopped being just about playing music end to end.

But look at the restrictions we as DJs have been forced into. The turntable is what we know and are familiar with, but it wasn't designed with any of these performance aspects in mind. A turntable is what it is because form dictates function. A record is round because it was a more efficient medium to house a groove than a cylinder was. The platter spins because a needle must move through this groove at a particular speed to create sound. But is a record on a turntable the most efficient way to MANIPULATE audio? Does it give the user the biggest possibility for artistic expression? I think the obvious answer is absolutely not.

CD players suffer a similar problem as turntables. Not so much because their functionality is dictated by physical media, but because they came out at the same time that DJing transitioned from being about playing someone else's music to being more of an art form. DJ oriented CD players have been around as long as I've been DJing (my first encounter with one was the Technics SLP-1200 in 86 or 87). Manufacturers struggled with form factors for years, and CDs didn't become commonplace in DJ booths as serious tools until the tabletop CD player was created - due in large part to the familiar turntable like form factor (and before you say it, the dual deck units were largely laughed at and relegated to bathroom breaks and bikini contests).

But now, physical media is largely dead or dying. And media no longer dictates the playback device form. But having learned from history, manufacturers right away started making DJ oriented MIDI controllers that copied the form factors of other DJ gear (at that point mostly CD players). This is a natural place to start. But now there is interest in broadening that vision. Partly because there are people getting into controllerisim that never grew up with turntables or physical media, and partly because the people currently in the scene are starting to think about the WAY they want to interact with music.

And just like in the equipment generations before them, MIDI controllers are now starting to acquire the tools needed to make real change. DIY controllers are now easy to build. Touch surfaces are being developed with flexible interfaces that are user configurable. Software is getting better support for external control, using a variety of protocols. And because users now are "unlocked" from a particular form factor, it's my hope that controllerisim will continue to evolve into something that eventually doesn't imitate turntable DJing - UNLESS the user wants it to.

This is all about choice and evolution. It's all happened before and it will happen again. I, for one, can't wait to see what comes of it.

Pretty sure Jazzy Jeff pushing buttons on an mpc is art. You guys are just old men or have old men reality. I would like to see more of this stuff without autosync though. I use an apc40 with serato so don't have the benefit of syncing.

And mixing is as much of an art as a drummers swing. Lot's of on time drummers, but only a few with truly bring the funk.

questlove!!!!!!!!!!


ean is just here to show his gear and sale his midi (video game) gear.

@the_black_one: Right, ?uestlove. You should take those turntables of yours and use em to rotate a few old jazz and soul records, see where all these beats were born. Art Blakey, Max Roach, Tito Puente, Clyde Stubblefield...

love me some tito puente!!!!!! (NM)

i guess my views on this are like this

1) it's easy to push buttons and have it auto sync
2) he is not doing anything new
3) People are quick to praise this average performance

I agree the performance is at best average. And his hair? With that shirt....

no play from the ladies!!!

I actually am a frequent reader of Ean Golden's blog. He really does some amazing stuff. He's very knowledgable on the subject.

I will say this, this is not the future of DJing. It is controllerism. I feel it is something totally different. I don't think Questlove ever thought that an MPC will eventually replace the drummer. It's just a different way to play music...

Personally, controllerism really doesn't appeal to me.But I enjoy watching people who are really good at it (this was a mediocre performace by Ean Golden). Two turntables and a 56 have kept me occupied for the past 15 years, and they will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future...

Bottom line, if you feel threatened as a DJ by controllerism, or if you think that DJing as an art is in danger because of concepts like controllerism, then step your own game up...

STYLE

As far as I can tell you guys are all bitching about each others style.

DJing has evolved. Yeah autosync is kinda gay, but its here so use it or not... its up to you. Thankfully Scratchlive doesn't use it, ITCH has a basic version of it, so most of us here don't use it, Scratchlive forum and all.

This is the route we have chosen as individuals.

If he could pull this off using Scratchlive v2.0 would that be better?

This whole argument seems messed up to me.

As far as I can tell DMC competitors plan out every part of their set and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, until the day of the competition. Yeah Ean has cue points and everything else all set up, but he executes it all, on the day of the video, it may even have taken more than one take... maybe not. Autosync helps out a lot but there is more to it than that, he even on the original post states:

"In the video above I condense a 30 minute set into 10 minutes of quick mixes that use controllerism as a tool for creative transitions."

If he can do it like this for more than 10min, or use these "tools" in his set all the power to him, I would like to see it.

Now...

DJing to me... and I can be totally wrong on this one. Is playing music, period.

This can be done on an iPod, using a computer, using a controller, using a 2 tape decks hooked up to a mixer, whatever. But what it all really comes down to is how good you are using the tools or interface you have, to achieve the final goal. This goal being: playing music for your friends, rocking clubs, making mixtapes, whatever. Now doing this can be done by pretty much anyone, but what elevates DJs from average people, is style and skill. 2 very serious points that are very subjective and can argued all day long.

Example: A iPod DJ probably has very little skill, but CAN have style.

Ean has his own style, and he has an amount of skill. It may not be for everyone but he does it, and as far as I can tell he makes some money at it.

What makes a "good" DJ is their style and skill, these 2 aspects can be put into almost every part of DJing. Skill on your "interface", style in selecting track, skill in selecting track, etc... I could go on but won't.

Z-Trip has his own style and skill.
Q-Bert has his own style and skill.
DJ AM had his own style and skill.
Jazzy Jeff has his own style and skill.
Ean Golden has his own style and skill.
Pauly D has his own style and skill

Pauly D has been debated, heavily. Style maybe? Skills maybe not?
Bottom line he still gets paid.

Every DJ on this board has their own style and skill, and do it for their own reasons.

So why all the hate for everyone who isn't a 2 turntable purist? (Pauly D uses 2 TTs)

Just do your own thing, and kill shit.

As for pure Controllerism it is not the future, but it is being incoroprated into DJing... choose it or not. An element of it can be used in Scratchlive, use it or not.

Just do your own thing, and kill shit.

LINK (for quote)

www.djtechtools.com

Rant over

Whatever happened to having fun and loving music?

it died when God created the internet!

My son Stylus is sick so no time for this.... But the following quote is very close to some of what I wanted to post.

Jesus Christ, why does some dude who has lurked on the forums but never posted always come in, post his life story and expect us to care, especially when he missed most of the points that have already been covered and countered dozens of times. For a guy who only reads the forums, you aren't very good at it.






You're talking about me not getting the point, yet you're regurgitating things I've already said long before you jumped in like the old pro with a dream.








Seriously dude, I think you need to go back to lurking and do more homework before you post again.

Yeah. Lots of reading not enough comprehending.



Btw, learn what auto-sync is all about before posting garbage designed to MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER ABOUT WHY YOU ARE USING IT.

Don't use words like ESSENTIALLY where there don't belong because guess what? A lot of dj's know their songs bpm's from repeated play.... AND JUST BECAUSE WE CAN MATCH SONGS THAT GO TOGETHER IN OUR HEAD DOESN'T ESSENTIALLY MEAN WE ARE USING AUTO-SYNC.

Just because you see a bpm on the screen doesnt MEAN it will auto-sync just like when we used to see It on a record sleeve before DVS.

Why does this thread (in this form) exist on this forum. Ive got no problem with SSL users disliking what Ean Golden does, hey if its not your bag then thats fine.
But i find it odd that people can hate so much on a guy (not just what hes doing) despite the fact that he is a good DJ in the terms that SSL users would demand. He has a turntabalists background (duh thats why hes using the Rane mixer in the first place, how is this the subject of a thread) yet here he is doing something else on his own site and people on here are talking about his 'hair' and his 't-shirts'... How old is the average age in this thread, 12... If your not down with what hes doing, fine but p*ssing like girls in a high school bathroom is just pathetic.

I wonder what the Moderators and the people at Serato think of their members being so childish.

Think im right in saying that Ean Golden had a hand in the design of the Dicer which is promoted on this website... I bet Ean has some friends at Serato HQ and they are reading this thread with a grimace... Some of you are making yourselves look very silly in front of your peers and your company.

Time this thread was closed and people got back to discussing something constructive or even better, make a mix video of your own.

Far to many people complain and never show any creativity themselves. Most people usually consider the haters to be the least talented.

If the cap fits.

PEAS.

@ DJ Shamann: Bro, relax. My intent wasn't to call you out on your knowledge. It was only to offer up the point that things ARE new, in spite of the fact that we had gear that was trying to do the same things, albeit less efficiently. If you're saying that a lot of what I wrote was just agreement with you, why don't you just say "ok, fine, we agree". My comments were actually meant as a general response to the topic and tone of the whole thread. A lot more has been said than just your comments, and I don't really feel the need to respond to everything individually when one long post covers everything I have to say on the subject. If you read through again, I'm sure you'll see a lot of repeated opinions, from yourself as well. No need to call me out on offering just one.

As for my reading or comprehension of this thread, rest assured, I get it. This isn't the first time I've seen this type of discussion. You can call me a lurker if you want, but personally I don't find it to be very accurate, as I only visit this forum once in a blue moon. I'm usually out of here as soon as I'm in, because I often find the tone and attitude to be unnecessarily negative. Just wanted to offer my own take on an (obviously) heated topic, and hopefully give a perspective that others visiting this thread might find useful. I DON'T expect others to care, as you put it, just to consider. Nothing was meant as ammo.

Peace, brother. It ain't worth fighting over.

Not really DJing, but it's pretty damn impressive to me. I'm sure a crazy amount of prep time goes into his sets.

Hell, I bet he doesn't have to take annoying requests when he performs.

My only complaint about the guy is his hair style and fashion sense.

+1

Here's some of the world top "button pushers" in my opinion:

DJ AKD
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ Enferno
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ Rafik
Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ Lamont
www.youtube.com
RUCKAZOID
www.youtube.com
Ean Golden
www.youtube.com
Vergel Evans
www.youtube.com
Even Craze is doing pushing a couple buttons
Watchwww.youtube.com

Damm i could go on!

Call me a button pusher/micro wavie but i dig this stuff..

There's nothing wrong with putton pushing UNLESS THAT'S ALL YOU'RE DOING. And, that's my opinion. As you can see by the posts by BuddyLove... these cats incorporated button pushing into DJing, which is great. I dig it too.

But to address the topic and only the topic at hand regarding the video posted, that ain't DJing. So, to answer the question "Will this form of djing blow up?" the answer is No because that is not DJing.

Can you put a performance like that? Sure. Call it a performance.

I can put on my clown suit and walk a dog on stage. That could also be a performance... but not djing.

thanks sixxx




to me and yourself oldschool heads...i agree
but what is djing? now or then
i love to spin my 2 pieces of vinyl on 2 decks too..that was & still is djing to me
but to consider new technology and peeps utilizing it not djing? i differ



thats just stupid talk sixxx,
i belive this is the next level of djing incorporating old & new


with that said...sixxx i respect you have been a really good friend ect..on this board
but i do understand where your coming from..
ive been there..guess im more open minded to new stuff

all due respect though
this is not dj/tabilist stuff

^^

^^


it was supose to be read like this....sorry i fucked up

Our opinions differ. Nothing wrong with that.

+1 to that.

If only everyone understood this when it comes to djing maybe this car crash thread wouldn't have hit a brick wall and exploded .
Just a thought.

How is playing other peoples music in front of people so they can dance NOT djing? You're too caught up in what the medium is. Using serato to dj is still using a controller.

Let me put a jukebox in front of a crowd so they can dance... is that DJing? I think not!

Are you sure? The turntable or CDJ is THE CONTROLLER... Serato is just holding your music, etc.

Oh man, how did I miss this thread?

Oh, and the short answer is "YES", this type of "DJ'ing" will blow up. Unfortunately.

GOSPEL.

Actually, the minute you hooked up your COMPUTER to your mixer, it was a wrap, no matter hwo much you 'THINK" you're preserving the art using Control Vinyl vs. real Vinyl.

It is if you are picking the tracks as you're reading the crowd. It may not be good djing but it is djing.

And lol at serato just holding your music. You turned your turntable into a contoller, Some people are using midi controllers instead. To use the same program, to play music in front of people at clubs/parties....there's not an ocean or for that matter even a swimming pool of difference in what traditional (I use the term loosely, since I haven't seen a dj play records in years) and what ean is doing.

That being said I would be much more impressed if this would be done without autosync. I would like for someone to do this in serato.

I don't understand this autosync argument. Basically, what people are saying is that if the same process is done by a machine instead of being done by a person then it loses quality? That's just stupid. It's a luddite mentality and the height of hipocracy. And I'm not just talking about Bridge - I'm talking about DVS in general. Where is the invisible line where your acceptance of technology ends? It's OK to use a computer to carry around your music, make it easier to categorize your collection, access cue points, loops, and effects, and standardize your workflow between different venues, but not sync? Does that mean that, for you, "real" DJing is about beatmatching?

I call bullshit.

Let me tell you something you're not going to want to hear. By your definition, everyone on this forum has already killed or wounded everything that was "real" about DJing. You want to "keep it real", so let's do that. First and foremost, you killed vinyl. Records as media are dying quickly. You can think differently all you want - that doesn't make you right. ANYONE in the Music Industry knows it. We SEE the downward trajectories of not only physical media, but ANYTHING associated with it (turntables, carts, CD players, etc). TCV is the only thing getting pressed with any regularity. Because you embraced digital media via DVS, you killed not only vinyl, but the shops that sold it. And the communities built around those shops. And the musical diversity it created in DJs by being a limited resource. You see, DJs used to SOUND DIFFERENT because one would have music the other wouldn't have. Now everyone has the same shit, because we all download it from the same place following the same charts and listening to eachother's sets. It goes even deeper, too. DJs used to have to limit what they brought out on a given night (because it was heavy and took up room), so there was more prep. More familiarity with the music. You'd stack records on top of eachother to pull off a quick mix - lay them down 2 at a time. You knew the BPM of your music because you took a watch and timed it out and wrote it on a label. Sometimes you also used a pitch pipe and wrote the key down as well. Now we have a generation of DJs that can't count beats, have no idea what song structure is, and no idea how to truly connect with the music. Being a "real" DJ also meant needing to know how to work in different booths. You needed to know different equipment. There were no fucking sound techs - YOU were the sound tech. How many DJs now understand gain structure, or even how a PA works? Or would feel comfortable NOT using the computer for a night? Hell, I'm impressed now if I see that a DJ knows how to correctly set up a cart. But what the hell, now it only needs to be good enough to be round on the scopes. And the software now even takes care of things like polarity problems for you.

That old school "DJ culture" you're trying so hard to defend is already dead. You killed it when you decided that you'd rather not carry around crates of records. But most of you either didn't think it through, or you're too young to know or give a shit.

The ONLY THING that saves it is the technology you're shaking your fist at. How do we as DJs get back to the kind of musical diversity and showmanship that made DJing something magical? Is it by manually beatmaching? Or yet again scratching "freeesshhh"? Or doing the same snare juggle over and over? No. We get back to it by becoming more than a DJ. We embraced beatmixing for it's artistic merits, but now it's not enough. Now, "real" DJs are producing their own stuff. Or remixing other people's stuff in new and totally unique ways. Right now, the technology is new enough that we're not using it to it's fullest. Right now we're relying on fucking loop rolls and cue juggles. But that's no more played than scratching in a track, followed by an 8 bar beat mix into the next hook, or doing some shitty beat juggle. DJs are going to be doing PRODUCTION if they want to be successful at anything but weddings or proms. That's what Bridge is about. That's what controllerisim is about. And whether you want to admit it or not, you're all already controllerists. The ONLY difference between your turntables and TTM57 and a stack of MIDI controllers is the communication protocol.

cant we all just get along!
Watchwww.youtube.com

LOL

Wow. You seem so angry nem0nic. Let me point out all the "wrongs" in your rant.



It's simple. If you can't keep stuff on sync on your own, you need to quit.


Read some facts about vinyl before you make that assumption. Vinyl sales are actually ON THE RISE. And, control vinyl is also on the rise with people collecting it left and right.



WRONG AGAIN. I see people doin' more prep in SSL or any other DVS than ever before. People reorganizing their libraries OVER AND OVER. Yup. Using all kinds of codes so that they know what to play when. Prep is there. It is just different.


Wrong again.... a ton of DJ (myself NOT INCLUDED) practice sets over and over.... which, guess what?, makes you familiar with it. Just look at all the DJ's who do pre-planned sets. Hello DJ AM....


I know lots of people that did that. Fortunately for me, I didn't. :) They way I did it was simple. Back in the actual crates days, I would sort by ALPHABETICAL ORDER but also within a certain range of BPM. I NEVER once bpm'ed a record. But, I knew (and know now) by listening to it within what range it falls. No noob learns that.



yes... so there is the lost "art"....



ACTUALLY, IT'S ALIVE AND WELL... but it's cats like you who are killing it. Misinforming people and shit.

Fucked up the last quote... but you get the point :)

Relax. Enjoy your family. It's just a phone. Oh wait.. It's just DVS. lol

any monkey can hit sync!

That's the reason why there is still a lot of people using VDJ....Most of the newer Djs never really bothered about Beatmatching by ear......

But this is a growing trend DVS with autosync which is ok with me but I'm not comfortable with it.....I'm still practicing my sets and see if a particular song fits in the mix. Proper programming (this is really time consuming) for me is the real Art since Autosync is a New tool that even a guy with no idea about Djing can be blending in seconds.

My thing is this. I'll REALLY beliveve the sale of Vinyl is on the rise when they open up a single VINYL record store.

Just one. Not some conglomerate with Best Buy or Walmart, a NEW vinyl store, all by itself.

You answered your own question on where the problem is



When you add things like autosync and autogain and auto this and that the computer is doing that work for you, new djs arent having to take the time practicing and spending time with their music trying to learn to beatmatch and EQ and things like that. They buy it open it up and next week they have a gig, and what does that produce

Sorry sixxx, no heat here - everyone thinks I'm angry when I type.

But I just want to put a couple things you said into perspective. First vinyl is NOT making a comeback. The blip reported in the billboard.biz article that everyone likes to talk about is great, but lets look at numbers. Vinyl sales in 2009 reached around 2.8 million units. But overall album sales were 373 million. CD sales were 121 million. Digital single sales were above 110 million, and are expected (according to IFPI and Forrester Research)to surpass all physical media sales before 2012.

Vinyl sales account for less than 1% of all sales.

Now lets take a look at the economy of that. Small record shops were mostly responsible for stocking the kind of niche vinyl most of us play (no matter your genre). A lot of them stocked vinyl for as long as they did as a labor of love, and because they did major record shops (like Tower - RIP) carried much smaller vinyl inventories and limited their selection to cater more broadly to their clientele. When the small shops started closing, the bigger shops saw an opportunity to stock more niche vinyl and make money on it. But when it accounts for 1% of sales, and is being carried by a large chain that only cares about the bottom line, how long do you think even that will last?

And as they decline, only the biggest vinyl pressing plants will be able to remain viable. There are now fewer vinyl pressing facilities in the entire world than there was in just US (there are only 11-15 operational plants in the US now depending on who you ask). When I started DJing there were more than 80.

And then there's musical instrument sales. People in the industry use a tool called MI Sales Track to see what products are selling. Like SoundScan, not all sellers are tracked, but it IS a good benchmark for businesses to use to look at the market. People with access to this data can see clearly a huge decline in the sales of devices that play physical media as a primary function. And at the other end of that a very sharp rise in the sales of controllers and software.

So no, vinyl is not on the rise. It's being totally dominated by digital downloads, along with all physical media in the near future - ESPECIALLY in the area of singles.

And record labels didn't just decide to give up on vinyl because they felt like it. That's insane talk. They gave up on pressing vinyl because sales weren't high enough to justify the rapidly dropping margins. Fewer plants mean more expensive operation, tooling, and materials. And the reason sales dropped is because people moved over to digital media. This is especially true in the DJ industry. And once it went digital, the element file trading/library sharing accelerated the effect. It made going digital even more attractive - especially to new users - because they could get in and have a big library very quickly for little to no cost.

As for my opinion, I'm not being ironic. I'm telling it like it is. This is the future. If you aren't embracing these new features and technologies, it's only a matter of time until you start losing gigs. Younger bucks with no hangups about technology will be coming along who will sound fresher and more exciting than you. They'll be able to justify playing gigs for less because everything they need to play out fits in a backpack and didn't cost them an arm and a leg in the first place. And the crowd will become bored with the mechanics of yesterday when DJs start basing performances on the freedom new technology brings them. It will be the old guys stuck behind turntables who will be laughed at for looking like they're "checking their mail".

So you can either stick your head in the sand and hope you're out of the business before you get made an antique, or you can embrace new technology and see it for what it is - yet another tool to allow DJs to entertain an audience.

I've been involved in the DJ industry in one form or another for over 25 years. And yes, I have NO PROBLEM at all with features like sync. I made the choice when DVS first came out to recognize the direction the industry was going in and embrace change. Personally, I'm old enough that I feel most comfortable using vinyl as the center of my DJ kit, but that is a personal choice based on years of comfort. But we have a whole new generation of DJs in front of us that never came up with vinyl, don't romanticize the medium, and embrace new technology. I'm excited when I see these new guys using the tools at their disposal in new ways. Hopefully I'll be involved in creating some of these new tools in the next few years.

I'm certainly not going to hate on someone based only on their choice of tools or methodology.

Great posts from nem0nic, Karlos Santos & Zac Kyoti....

Well said...

I agree with almost all of what nemOnic, but autosync to my trained ear sounds lifeless in the mix. I can hear the difference between a smooth mixer and some guy hitting a button to mix. ANd as far as rocking cuts or samples I think you can also hear the difference, what you are losing is swing...and as they say, it don't meant a thing if it ain't got it. All the little imperfections is part of what makes it a good beatmatcher/button smasher. And many younger djs are coming up on serato and learning how to beatmix. I mix using an all midi setup, so I don't see those two things as being opposed to each other.

I just wish Serato would expand the use of internal mode and embrace the future of midi controllers in a different way than Itch. The beauty of controllers is the freedom to map things the way you want, use the gear you want It's not like you can really carry most of the Itch gear around, much of it is bulky and expensive, a laptop, serato soundcard and midi controller is all you should need. . They need a redesigned Serato card that allows for a headphone out and an updated version of scratch with midi out and an internal mixer. This will bring a ton of new customers to their doorstep.

Though if they would just add midi out things would already be much more inviting for midi djs.

I don't think vinyl sales are ever going to be the way they were before and there will never be a record store that sells just records. That's idiotic. That's why these stores went out of business.



Wouldn't you think everyone in here has also embraced change? We all own a DVS system. lol

That's sort of the point. You've already made the leap but for some reason still feel the need to say if you're not stuck to cdjs or turntables then your not a "real" dj. All that's changed is the interface between dj and player.

For "blowing up," and as far as the "public" goes, I bet they may have only seen Mike Relm and David Guetta (Relm on some TV show he was helping host, and Guetta and in the Kid Cudi video) doing any obvious forms of button pushing.

Once Dicers show up in the media to sell completely unrelated products--as we see DJs featured in the back of cereal ads--it all will be over.

if you want to get technical, DJ stands for Disc Jockey.....if your not using records or CDs whay discs are you jockeying

...

Serato is going in the same direction and most of you guys have so many poor to accept the truth:

Tools are for use them. Pushing buttons is fun as use turntables.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Quiet afraid ego, stop hating, start learn, enjoy life.

Tooltablism is born!
...

That's exactly why I find it ironic that people will embrace PART of the technology, but not all of it. I, for one, don't understand where the line is drawn. It's OK to use autogain, cues, loops, and library, but not something like sync, or controllers that are comprised entirely of buttons?

Controllerists are searching for new ways to interact with music. Some of it will be cheesy - just like when a new DJ first discovers a sound effect record or a new scratch and overuses the shit out of it. But hopefully it will evolve into the capability for a user to manipulate music in the way that's most intuitive to them - instead of being forced into a workflow dictated by an outdated medium.

If you really feel this way i have a feeling your not using your turntables correctly



I agree with this though my interpretation of the term is prob different from yours

...


Or you buttons, it is a matter of POV. Serato is going buttoning without drop turntable... somebody is pointing a gun to you asking for use buttons?



Well I think I was the first of use it in internet but... in my definition there is not mine or yours... only a finger pointing to the moon, just a word...

Peace

...

Thanks for this one. It really sums up this whole thread.

As long as it sounds dope is all I care about and hat shit sounded dope! Props to Ean Golden for steppin it up!

Lol...

Who is that dj pauly d's mentor?

That's a ridiculous thing to say. But fine, hard drive discs, haha You have have been out defined.

Holy shit. Really? Who said that? lol

It's not ironic. Listen. Just because the technology is there doesn't mean you have to use it. Cars can drive themselves but you don't see racecar drivers doing that... right?

Well, the same with DJing. If you can't do it yourself... then, what's the point in doing it? It will be boring. Yes. Boring.

You forgot... LEARN ENGLISH.

...

When truth hits our identify, we could do some many things:

- To use the comprehension (with others and with yourself).
- To go out running shouting heeeeelp.
- To argue with a vain attempt of humiliation.

And sorry for my poor english, it makes me worst person and bad dj too.

...

He's just making fun of your English so he doesn't have to provide a thoughtful response.

Are you sure captain save a hoe?

See three posts above... there's your thoughtful response.

Refer: You Dj so BAD!!

Technology is a great thing. It's there to help you or hinder you. Your choice.

You DJ so bad, even with auto-sync you suck. lol

Dr. Benny Response;

Controllerism is the exact same thing as Turntabilism

Now... How Many strictly Turntablist Clubs Does anyone see around?


The future is somewhere in the middle Just like just about every DJ I know
does some sort of scratching over thier mixes...

Now I guess it will be Scratching or Retriggering some sort of Sample

I'd rather see a string quartet learn, play, and execute a concerto flawlessly live than have someone press play on a recording that we already know was executed perfectly.

but that's just me.

So if your using a SSD instead of a traditional HD your not a DJ....interesting

You couldn't be more far off. But, if that's what you believe....

Yup.

hahaha

im still waiting for the controlerism kids to post up some vids....been looking forward to buttonfreaks vid to be posted for almost a year now lol

Either way it Holds true .. I dont think Controllerism will ever dominate a Club enviroment Same as Turntablism ...

Why would anyone want to see me flawlessly mix EDM on a controller in a video. It would be as boring as a video of me mixing on turnatables. You can get what I do if you are into EDM and listen to my mixes. I mix smoothly, do loops, live edits with cue point...all pretty boring stuff to stare at. I obsess over clean fade in's and fade outs. I'm not trying to be a rock star and don't want people staring at me, I want them dancing and hopefully having a psychedelic experience (under the influence or not).

I just want clean mixes, eq control, and impeccable track selection. Those our my dj values. If you really want to see a vid of that then I'll do one.

yup

Then you must hate djs because most of what they do is play other peoples music.

yup

do you have any mixes posted??

Turntablism this craft takes time to learn.

Controllerism = Dj Hero.

HIfana

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

O oh... Something I didn't think about with using controllers and pushing buttons - THE PERFORMANCE LOOKS PRE-MADE.... Until they started messing with the TT's I was wondering if it was a premade mix and they were just up their faking the funk...

I guess that can be a negative effect of using strictly controllers... How you are perceived by an audience..

That's the type of controllerism I'm not a fan of. Like I said, incorporate button pushing into turntablism all you want. It CAN ADD to the performance. But, button pushing alone seems very boring and lifeless to me.

Exactly.

www.makinggoodsoftware.com

Button pushers are NOT real DJs, they have no talent. They are giving a bad name to hard working DJs such as myself who have put in the time to learn and perfect their craft and pave the way for future generations of DJs who respect the craft as an artform. Controllerism is just a step in the direction of raising a generation of kids who think all it takes to be successful in this game is some gimmicky controller and effects pad. It may be fine for bedroom DJs but if you want to achieve the level of success of a DJ such as myself, you'll need more than a gameboy MIDI controller. MIDI is a great tool but you should not expect to achieve top level success on gimmicks alone, it takes hard work, dedication, and talent. NO SHORTCUTS. Put in the time to learn the basics, it will pay off in the long run.


-- Paul "DJ Pauly D" DelVecchio --

Keep making more posts.... your writing style is so familiar..... just like...errr... can't put my finger the name yet...

LOL rogger needs to put in a call to eddy valient

I had to google that - ha - I can't believe you remember character names from that movie.. tis tis tis Bezzle... Your just mad that I banged JessicaRabbit lol..

HAHA, Loved it.

You tell 'em, Pauly! There's no short cut to that hair!

i say its nik :)

WTF, I can't write as clean as this guy. I think it is Barry McCockner.

Nope it's The Real pauly D

He gave me a call earlier this Morning and told me How he's been reading this
thread and it really *ERK'S* him to see so many Button Pushers Gettin
shine.

Then I said Fuck Dawg Write SUMthan, Then Nigga!!!

He was Like forget About it..

So I said thats what im talkin about You are all Talk and No Muscle

He said what the f*ckin F*ck then I'm gonna F*ckin Do it
Thanx KB Your my HERO!!!

So, I said Forget about it Pauly You can SuCk my D*ck Later Pimpin... JUST Don't forget to shine Balls This Time Mutha F**ka...

Your example is horrible, because unless it's the DARPA Challenge cars CAN'T drive themselves, but I take your meaning.

We're not talking about people who rely on sync and do nothing else with the music (at least, that's not what I'm talking about). Those are just bad DJs, and they exist whether they use a computer or not. I can remember calling out DJs that only played mix service tracks for the same played out shit. Bad DJs will always exist, whether or not they embrace new technology. What I'm talking about are DJs that use the new tools in ways that allow them to be more creative. Like syncing your master tempo in SSL with Ableton Live so that your clips play in time with your music. Or taking the master clock out of Traktor into 4 other DJs on stage (running Traktor and/or Live) with you doing massive remixes. Or even on a smaller scale, using sync to do cut and paste 4 deck sets.

I mean, if I was a pure vinyl DJ and came in here calling you a wavie because you relied on hotcues, auto-quantized loops, and side by side waveforms, would you argue the point? If I told you that everything you do is bullshit because you're using a computer, and that people like you are the reason there aren't any more record shops or decent releases on vinyl, would you agree with me? Because that's just as ridiculous as your position is in my eyes.

I have another question for this thread, because I'm professionally curious. Let's imagine that someone came out with a controller that gave you 100% the feel and accuracy of a turntable - down to the finest detail. In fact, let's imagine that it surpassed the performance of TCV (because of greatly reduced latency and higher resolution messaging). Now lets also imagine that also gave you control of the cues, loops, and effects in the software of your choice, it was well built, and connected to your computer via a single cable that took care of both control and audio data, and cost $599 USD per deck.

What if it also unlocked features in your software that would be otherwise unavailable (kind of like what the SL-3, TTM57, and the 68 have going right now)? It would eliminate any need at all for vinyl, and would be a completely digital controller.

Would you use it, or would that be over the line?

Even with autoSync a 4deck set is Hard ...

if your rockin 4 decks that is ...

I get that done on an apc40, they cost 299 now.

why don't we have a battle. Ean Golden Vs Sixxx

LOL at internet battles!!!!!

I second the Motion put forth by Caliber...

How bout it Sixxx?

Come on fellas! in reality its not going to happen!!!

Why not? I know for a fact Ean Golden would do this

i heard that sixxx only battles people with sleeves

Well.. I guess your right you would still need Sixxx Not to Back down...

I all reality this battle could never happen! :(

*In all reality this battle could never happen ! :(

and if it did you would get a bunch of this before the real dealWatchwww.youtube.com

Ah Classic... Yes I agree That would Happen alot it's amazing How you can Post Such
a Comprehensive Vid that encompasses this whole topic ...


Amazing Need to Watch the vid to understand

Thanx Black 1

How many battles on this board have you done Caliber?



































I thought so.

Am I late to the party?

to his credit sixxx WAS did participate in one of the few battles that ACUTUALLY materalized

by posing this as a hypothetical situation i can tell yuor new to the forums..welcome and enjoy your stay lol


PS

if this is true " calling you a wavie because you relied on hotcues, auto-quantized loops, and side by side waveforms" then no i wouldnt argue the point because if you RELY on them then you ARE a wavy

The arguments and statements being made in this thread are getting thinner and thinner.

People using hotcues use them because they can do more with a track than if it were just a piece of vinyl. They can get more creative and do more with a track. They dont use them to cheat or be lazy, at least not anyone that has any success.

Ive been behind the decks for 15 years, 12 as a Pro.
All DVS has done has made me a more creative DJ. Controllerism is something i got into by accident and its opened up even more avenues for me to DJ in.

Whats more important to me than hanging on to some tired reasons for hating on the advancment of DJing is my own advancement.
I have a 2 DVS systems at home SSL & TSP, plus a Traktor/VCI 100/X1 system & an Itch/VCI 300 system but i still have a set of traditional 1210s setup for vinyl only. I have stayed with what i learnt on but i have accepted the new practices to develop and explore DJing.
I do vinyl only gigs, DVS gigs, CDJ gig... id play on 2 toasters if i could get music onto the bread. It doesnt matter.

Stop sweating the medium, you never know you might enjoy it and have some FUN !!!

Ive have no issue with vinyl purists i was one for a very long time. Some of my DJ friends have no inclination to even look at DVS but its people who have moved on to DVS that have some kind of bizarre image of themselves as bastions that are holding up some noble artform that do my head in.

There is nothing noble about DVS. Your p*ssing about on a laptop most of the time.
You touch the vinyl to get it in sync or scratch. Laptops make things a million times easier. Its not hard to put a bunch of tunes in a playlist and play them, especially with all the visual feedback you have.
Someone above said anyone can press buttons... anyone can learn to beatmatch. Its f*cking easy if you apply yourself.

We can play the one-up game (even if it is boring). If i use SSL im all over the laptop like a 17 year old looking for Porn.
If i use TSP i only touch the laptop to search for a track. I do all my loops/cues/FX on my Korg Zero 4 or if i want more on an X1.

Question:
So whos the winner in the ridiculous quest for the most noble DJ. The one who only uses a laptop/SSL and mixer decks but looks like typing Secretary most of the time OR the one who is freed up from touching the laptop and works the mixer/controller more like a traditional DJ.
Answer:
There is no winner cus there is no loser... It doesnt bloody matter.


I dont think there is person on here that hasnt heard a perfectly mixed set of sh*t music.
Its the sh*t music that i have an issue with.

I genuinely hope that people would rather see a controllerist smashing a dancefloor with a killer set than a DVS/vinyl DJ playing a set of crap music. If you dont agree with that then your in it for the wrong reason.

Cup of tea ?

damn toasties

I was gonna make a joke about jam, but I thought better of it.
(see what I did there?)

Bezzle, that's two battles and a third one that didn't materialize. But you can't try and instigate battles. It doesn't work that way. I mean you as in anyone.

the hell i cant....do or do not, there is no try!!!!

OfCourse ! Sixxx is a DJ's DJ and Mexican to Boot!!

Make him a Macho Macho Man ... We wanna be Macho Men *rofl*


All in good fun Bruv =)

hahahaha

nem0nic:

Personally, the reason that I pursued (before 99% of the people around now did), then abandoned, controllerism is because of the *kind* of control that it gives you. For me it has nothing to do with the historical significance of vinyl culture, etc... (If truth be known, I think that the stalwarts mostly come off as bitter old men.)

Controllerism basically gives you lots of cue points to hammer on (provided you preset them first), lots of effects possibilities, and the ability to play lots more channels at once. I spent an enormous amount of time pursuing the possiblities of this, and realized that this is not the control that a person truly needs while DJing.

For "real world" DJing, you need to be able to easily start and stop a song, to fluidly correct the tempo and phase of a song, and to navigate around it -- and your library -- quickly. Lots of visual and physical feedback is extremely important also.

I spent a lot of time trying to coax this out of controllers. Eventually I realized, grudgingly, that there was already a very robust system in place that did this -- and in fact it had been in a steady stream of refinement since before I was born. Of course, I am talking about turntables and a mixer.

I think that the controllerism is great for routines, and as a kind of new school of "samplism". But for DJing multi-hour sets where you are trying to cater to a diverse, chaotic crowd, it just can't compare to the tried-and-true.

My $0.02,
rs

Ryan, I've seen you post to this effect before and I know your story. We're actually mostly in the same boat, because I have such a high level of comfort with vinyl. But that's primarily because of over 20 years of use.

And I'll absolutely concede that right now controllers aren't where they SHOULD be. But I see in controllerisim the same kind of energy and potential that I saw when I first saw DJs using cheap drum machines over the top of their records, or someone scratching. We look at those early efforts with the benefit of hindsight now and they seem cheesy, but it had to start somewhere. Right now, manufacturers are putting out mostly derivative crap based on concepts that were first realized years ago. But I think we're almost at a point where we'll start seeing better than DVS performance from controllers. It would have happened already if the economy hadn't taken a turn.

And regardless what anyone might think, I'm not advocating everyone getting rid of their turntables. What I am advocating is the freedom to explore new ways of manipulating and interacting with music. THAT is what controllerisim is all about. The most efficient and intuitive way to do that might indeed be something like a turntable for you or me, but what about people who don't have that background already? If you asked a child who never heard of DJing how he wanted to manipulate audio, do you think he would tell you a spinning platter? I take your point, but I also know that I would never tell someone like David Haynes that button pushing can't be artistic and improvisational.

Tools CAN be limiting, but it's usually the mind's fault - not the tool's.

the best controller to manipulate music is a turntable


nuff said

nem0nic: I certainly agree with you on the last point about the mind being the limitation.

For that matter, if someone can rock a dance party with a bunch of 90's Country Music cassettes and a broken ukulele, more power to them. One thing I do not understand is the level of anger from people about it. (Maybe what comes across as their "anger" comes across in me as mere "trepidation", I don't know really.)

rs

Excellent points ryansupak.....

One thing that hasn't been said is that perhaps nem0nic is bias. Of course he wants to push controllerism.... Isn't that what you get paid to do nem0nic?

I saw a DJ playing with a controller for one of the first handful of times tonight. He was on an Akai 40 or something like that and played technically completely clean, but the people at my table (two DJs, two non DJs) perceived his set as very "cold." The next guy played a very similarly programmed set on SL with 1200s and a 57 and they perceived it as sloppy (as did I), so who knows.

A bad DJ is a bad DJ no matter what he uses.

To be a good DJ you need to do 2 things very well and in equal measure:
1. Pick Good Tunes.
2. Mix them well with whatever medium you use.

Fail on either and the whole thing is a fail.

A Dj with a controller that gets everything spot on and plays a set of great tunes will entertain ANY audience way better than a turntablist playing badly selected records.

Doesnt matter what the 'chin strokers' and other DJs/wannabe DJs think. Its what the people on the dancefloor think.

Im sure we have all sat in clubs and bars thinking "this guy is not very good" whilst hes got a rammed dance floor. Bottom line is if its a passable performance the crowd will be happy if the tunes are great.
Chances are that if the mixing is absolutley SPOT ON but the tunes arent that great the floor will be empty and everyone will be thinking "this guy is really sh*t" when in fact hes actually a good technical DJ.


I suppose the point im making a hash of is that this topic will go round in circles because there is always a caveat or exception that proves everyone wrong/right.

I work for Stanton as a Product Manager (as you know, having been a beta tester for our SCS.3 controllers). We make equipment that covers the spectrum from monitors (KRK), to all kinds of DJ equipment (Stanton), to PA gear (CV). And as far as Stanton goes, we make WAY more money from our traditional DJ offerings than we do on the MIDI controllers we sell. I did a ton of work on the M.207 firmware, and I currently have development going on for KRK. Also, it's not like all of us employees get a percentage when we sell something. So trying to paint me with that brush is more than a little misleading.

stops reading....begins disregarding all information previously ststed by this user

Apparently, it worked. lol

Awww man....

Does it matter who he works for?

Hes here to give knowledge of controllerism from someone with a traditional background. Id say that pretty interesting.
Its good to hear from people on all sides of DJing.

I think that Controller DJs could do to learn a bit about turntablism and all aspects of traditional DJing. At least because its interesting and about DJing.

Likewise DVS/Vinyl users can learn from people like nem0nic about technology and get the correct low-down on all this stuff.
Hey, you never know the next Dicer type product might be made by Stanton.

...does it really matter who someone works for ;-)

It shouldn't matter, BUT it's assumed that everyone here is regular DJ. For example, that dude from Ortofon identifies himself, so when we speak to him, (and he's VERY helpful), we already know what side of the tracks he's on.

Sometimes, disclosure helps, and sometimes it hurts.

I like how Traktor and Rane products are never supposed to be used at the same time. FUCKING LAMES in here.

lol.

Well that part of the thread title hasnt been much discussed.
Id say the Ean Golden used the Rane mixer because he knows how fricking great it is.
He has a traditional DJ background. What DJ wouldnt want to use the Rane if he was doing a routine that required a great scratch mixer even if its with a controller routine.

I know a guy who is currently modding a TTM to fit the insides of an Audio 8 soundcard in it so that it becomes a Traktor Scratch Pro mixer.

Now that thought must have people throwing up !!! its true. He loves the TTM so much and he wants a Traktor Certified mixer like the Korg Zero4 so the answer is to mod a Rane. It will happen, this guy is a fricking work-shop genius.

RANE has been a standard for ages... I come from the rave scene... More MP44's exist than Pioneer 800's... Its slowly changing but MP44's can still take a beating.

because hes not doing any scratching?

You may see "scratch" mixer. I see 2 channel mixer. Ranes are just as capable of mixing as they are scratching. And Ean probably only needed 2 channels anyway.

Fukka stupid street fighter buttons for cues, i want the old bowling controller for scratching on midi.

www.google.com

Um, he uses a Rane because it sounds and feels good...? What's the problem?

Oh yeah it does.

Esp. when you get caught lying in the public it matters what intention you have and what background you have. Agenda.

Cant we all get along!
Watchwww.youtube.com

Are these limited CV's in the beginning? I swear I can see some!!

+1



NICE! I'd like to see that. But I would much rather see an Audio 8 inside a DJM800. Hehehe

Interesting little vid I stumbled upon Watchwww.youtube.com

has the look of the torq unit... and from the looks of the program i think they will finally add a sample player to traktor... pretty interesting indeed

+1

Native Instruments is making moves...

Wow, since I wasted a month reading all this crap, I gotta say something just I get something for my time.
I've been at this for a long ass time, and when I started people were like... oh there's a DJ at this party? What, they couldn't afford a live band? We've all heard the anti-DJ arguments before (unless maybe you were born after 1990?). I read some of the same arguments above, just aimed at controllers. Let's check ourselves first.
I spent most of the late 80s & early 90's learning the turntablist thing and hunting for records. Hell, I didn't even buy my first CD player until 1996. I earned the scratching & juggling because it let me express myself better with the music. So does recording dubplates and producing music. Serato means that I can head to my gig straight from the studio and have something that literally no one has heard before, although it might familiar. And looping a tune sure is a lot easier than juggling a break & trying to manage a third TT with an acapella.
As far as that extreme controllerism, I am also turned off by auto beat matching, but that isn't gunna change and if my one trick is matching beats it's over for me! And if you think that'll help phrasing or song selection, maybe you're not a "real DJ" anyway! But if you can express yourself better with buttons than with 1200s, and you have something to say that I want to hear, then lets do it. (And for button haters, have you ever been to a studio?). Then again, if you're a controllerist and want to show me how many cool effects and cue points you have, no thanks, I'd rather hear something with soul. And since that "movement" is in its infancy, I think there is a lot of "how cool is this" vs. "I need the world to hear this," which turns a lot of us off.
As for the demo shown, it's not my favorite, I just don't like the sound (but I play hip hop & reggae so no surprise. I also like sleeves). As far as Ean goes, I think he really does represent true DJs because he wants to help people who love music--- and that's what this was about way before most people on these blogs were involved, and before we got "respect" or a reason to get egos. Hell, he came on this forum and coulda been hella defensive, but was a lot more reasonable than most people on the thread. And if you are new to this DJ thing, check out his website, I think it could be really helpful.

Well Said Reggae !

I was on these forums and others long before I got the job at Stanton. Since taking the job, I've tried to maintain an impartial stance in my posting and not shill for the company. So you'll only hear me talking about Stanton products if they're brought up or specifically asked about. And I haven't said anything in this thread that I haven't said before getting the job. I was even on a podcast with Mexi (from here) and Phill from the NI forums talking about controllers something like 3-4 years ago.

But of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm saying, that Ortofon guy is cool as hell, yet we know what side of the tracks he's on. Not that it would REALLY mean anything in the long run, but when you DID mention being associated with Stanton, I DID have the inkling to double check your posts again, that's all I'm sayin.

Didn't really change anything, but you get my drift...

What side 'could' the Ortofon guy be on other than the DJs side.
Why is there always a lot of US vs THEM on this forum.


If nem0nic was promoting the Stanton side of Controllerism in this thread i think it would be a cause for concern but he hasnt. Someone else brought Stanton up.

In a thread about controllerism nem0nics experience should be a good thing especially as he has a traditional background.
This is a big point here. Someone said "button pushing kids"... thats pathetic.
Ean Golden is a real DJ in the terms that anyone on this forum can stand up to. Hes just exploring a different angle. Its not Us vs Them.

Its obvious that there are people in this thread that dont usually post on this forum
but no-one has come on for a ruck. People just hoped they could straighten out a few misconceptions about controller DJing, that it isnt all SYNC and let it run (its not Ableton after all j/k).

I know its wasted on a lot of people. Some guys will never accept it, but the arguments put forward are pretty compelling.
Ive had arguments in my booths about using DVS rather than vinyl, its futile, some people are dumb and dont get it.
Controllerism came along and i wanted a go cus i like all forms of DJ/music performance.

I joined this forum 5 years ago under a different name. I rejoined a little while back to check a few things out. I came on last week to check out what was being said about Ean Golden, not to defend him, he can do that himself but to put my opinion on controllerism across, an opinion from an old vinyl/DVS guy.
I just think if i can get it anyone can.

Is there a rule of disclosure on this forum??? I work for Native Instruments.
Big deal... I use SL and Itch as well as TSP (of course). I like Serato, its a cool company.
I just wish people more people were like reggae delgado... (4 posts above)

Bag open ... cat running everywhere...

Agenda. Conflict of interests.

Why? Im not here promoting NI stuff.
I use Sl and Itch. I have a VCI 300.

I call it having a broader view point. I was an SL user before i used Traktor.

I couldnt give a crap that Ean Golden used Traktor in that video. I was happy he was using a Rane mixer i was mainaly interested in the performance and the medium of controllerism.

As soon as some good Dicer videos come out ill be all over them. I wont be slagging them of cus its an SL video. Ill be stoked. Finally some new SL promo vids.

As soon as the Bridge is out ill be looking at it with real interest.

What i wont do is just right either off as sh*t just cus i have a traditional DJ background or cus i work or use a certain program. Its just stupid to close your eyes like that.

Im open minded.

I guess people forgeting Stanton makes turntables too, not just midi devices..

I concur.

if he had a hand in those it further devalues his opinions to me LOL JK

But hey, it's cool to actually be able to TALK to someone directly in the industry, and some may hold back disclosures so they won't be perceived differently by folks, and truly want to be impartial.

It's a double edged sword...you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

Exactly... Ive heard a gut-full of Serato Vs Traktor in my time.
It bores the living sh*t out of me...

What interests me is the way DJing is moving on.
I still have my reservations about the direction of controllerism... I promote club nights and i see the worst kind of DJs you can imagine. No skill, no interest in being creative, no interest in actually DJing, they just want an end product with little input.
I dont hate on Ableton but i dont like watching a pre-made set simply roll of the production line. i like to see some skill and some guy putting is all into it.

i think regardless of the music (which im only partly impressed with) Ean Goldens video was a lesson in putting a lot of effort into a performance.

As for an agenda... no not at all... Just here for the interesting topic.

The hate on this thread is just incredible... slitting wrists, God, Satan... I sense a lot of folk are feeling like they have to defend their "craft".

1983, that was my first paying gig. I didn't have the luxury of starting with 12's from day one... thus I feel my opinions are rather valid... I can't help but feel that the very definition of "DJ" is what's being debated here... almost like people are offended that Ean may try to pass himself off as a DJ, and some unsuspecting bloke will think that two turntables is somehow foreign.

So far it seems there are certain criteria that need to be met, but I'm not sure who's on the DJ Council to discuss with.

Keep the posts coming, this is good stuff!!

:)

...waits for sixxx to rip reggae delgado a new one.. or even me! hahaha

well if you have enough Naranjas then maybe!

Hahaha.


I hate no one or you would be dead.


I like the turntable as a controller but more than that I have an appreciation for funky cool creative stuff vs stiff lifeless manipulation of sounds or songs. - I don't care what controller you use.

If it ain't got soul, it probably does not interest me.

+1,000,000

How do you define soul?

Funk, swag,filthy,stupid,bounce,it,can't put my finger on it(NM),bad,sick,insane,bumping, if you dont get soul then i feel bad for ya!

+ All
Exactly how i have always felt about music and how i play it.

"How do you define soul"

You don't. Its either there or not. You either feel it or not.

well his name IS Nosferatu ...guess that means you hate him

I am of the undead... ;)

I love how people will say "nah i dont like this" then other people feel the need to convince me its something good, and that im wrong and should want this.

We have seen it, we know what it can do, still dont like it.

Do you really think 20 novel-like posts are going to change our mind?

"But its the future"

...


Not mines buddy.


1 Midi Controller and a microphone just dont appeal to me. The sentence is off.

I think it all is in how its said, most people dont say they dont like something, they say something sucks and belittle it which elisits defence. I think when you say I dont care for it, people just accept it

Who cares. Moving on. Finally.

That's the irony of these debates, at the end of the day - if you have an initial opinion on the subject - it usually remains the intact..

But the minds that are swayed - are the ones reading this thread, who may not be knowledgeable in the culture(example - new dj's).

For this thread - I think those made points that midi-style djing is a thing of the future, out shined those who think its not..

Better overall thoughtful posts were made and crushed/debunked the frequent - ("button-pusher", "auto-stink") - one-liner points..


p.s - In a couple of months - remember I said this - you'll see some of the same cats who are now frowning on controllerism - exclaiming how great the BRIGDE is.... and what's the best MIDI controller to use with it....

You forget that the bridge does a lot of things. It's also great for recording, not just performance. Also, the bridge works great with turntables.

Remember, I said this... The Bridge is just another tool that can be use for many beautiful things or exploited to do some lame ass shit.

Remember I said this - it WILL BE exploited to do some lame ass shit.. :)

ok ok can someone PLEASE explain what will make the bridge so revolutionary? i mean ive read tons about it, but i cant imagine your typical dj taking full advantage of the software IMO....

Can we make another thread about The Bridge? thanks

Too many already sixxx... my thread got outta line at about 150 post... lol but back to MIdi then i suppose!!! =)

Can we get back to bitching about new forms of Djing please.

Wrong thread dude.

Alright guys heres another routine Mr. Golden came up with... now in the routine he actually TURNS OFF sync (for a short period of time) and continues with a nice quick set... the only thing i dont like is that he teaches everyone to mimic his routine which wouldnt make it original at all... other then that i think its good. but i still dont understand why ppl here cant seem to like this form of djing!! (yes its djing guys) enough talking heres the routine

Watchwww.youtube.com

I have said it many times, I love my stanton TTs more than my 1200s. And as far as controllerism blowing up? It will become more prevalent but I doubt it will blow up. Like many others in this thread I believe that it will be utilized more as an additional piece of a traditional setup.

I have this insane burn when I piss but no discharge. I banged a dirty girl but I'm not sure if I caught something or if I caught a urinary tract infection from her yeast infection. Of course, no condom was worn (I know I know, jokes on me).

What should I do?


-Burning in New York

Dear Burning...

First thing is to go see a doctor. Venereal disease should be taken seriously. Second, leave your sister alone.

The Doctor

hahaha

Oh shnap...lol.

Caliente....


La primer cosa es visitar un doctor.Enfermedadres sexuales tienen que tomarse en serio. Segundo, deja a latindj y sixxx solos!!!!

I don't know anything about the bridge but my opinion is anything that will help you make your Dj set more of a performance and an actual art and still keep that Live aspect of pitching your records together while creating new works on the fly is
something that every Dj with Higher asperations of fame should be intrested in

I think the Bridge will be Useful to average Joe Shmoe Wedding this Weekend guys
but will be absolutely neccessary to any DJ/Producer wishing to bring thier studio Knowledge into the Room with them when they mix .. Possibilities are just too endless

... Just my Humble Opinion

WOW. . . the relentless battle between Dj's and "real" Dj's has come into here. . .

Ean Golden started out like any of us has. . .Turntables and a mixer. He merely advanced the art form into buttons, and so far, he has furthered the "concept". . read that carefully. . ."concept"". . .of Controllerism that was started by Moldover. I like what he's done, and has just made himself that much more appealing to the club crowd. Something different, and it's eye catching to the most casual of music listeners. . .I'm more of a traditionalist myself, but damn If I'm ever going to lug around 3-4 crates of records ever again! I myself may just do 2 midi fighters (the button bloicks Ean used) and utilize it for SSL for smaller parties. Makes for a fun night at the random nights at a homies pad.

One question for some of you. . . .You say cheating using the sync button. . .but do you use the BPM of the song in SSL? . . .then I say your hypocritical in saying it's cheating. If you listn really closely to Ean's performance, there were songs SOO out of sync that it didn't matter. It take an "art form" to do just what he did, and considering he didn't use turntables made it all the more harder for me to believe.

Hell, I use 2 Nano Pads and a Nano Kontroller for my sets, and I rarely use them on occasion cuz the technology has so far advanced the movement even further. . .and yes I'm talking bout even the most traditionalist hip-hop heads on here.

Are going to Flame Dj Craze? (Watchwww.youtube.com)
How bout Dj Rafik? (Watchwww.youtube.com)
Or even Dj Jazzy Jeff? (Watchwww.youtube.com)
Each one used their DVS ssytem in the way that they deemed fit to use for a performance.

(all great vids whatever your view btw. . . .)

Whatever the case, advancement is all I ever wanted to see in Djing. Turntableism lacked SOO much during the mid to late 90's due to EVERYONE trying to be the next Q-Bert. This is just another step in evolving the term Djing. . .

I'vve ranted long enough. . .grow up, technology rules our lives (obviously if I'm posting in the Serato forums on my computer at work while I charge my iPhone), and advancements happen when technology is involved. . .

Embrace it or get left behind.

This vid actually got me into Controllerism as an art, and got me thinking of adding twists and turns (bad analogy, i know) like this into my own sets. And yes. . .he shuts off the sync for more of a performance piece that, more than likely, ANY Dj would add into their own mix. . .

In addtion to my post, he does give people options to use it in ANY way they feel fit. . .his site DJTEchToolsDOTcom has small competitions, and so far, even those performances are pretty damn ill. . . .

Watchwww.youtube.com

Gotta luv a late comer...

That's not advancement... that's a bunch of steps backwards.

hahaha

Ean will like his cock out of your mouth right about now!!!!

It's would. Ean WOULD like his cock out of your mouth right now

Fuck that ima get my shit ASAP she better get focused on the job and put some work in if she want hers cause i sure as hell aint waitin lol

I can't pass up a competition.
Watchwww.youtube.com

^^no comments?

this guy gots some crazy stuff going on..
www.youtube.com

This was just too awesome not to post Watchwww.youtube.com

Awesome!

Just me - but i got bored within the first minute or two - didn't watch the whole thing.

Just realized that a DJ on Turntables or even CDJ's give you a visual even if nothing is happening. We wait and anticipate what WILL happen.

I was waiting for a button to be pushed to echo??? Got bored and moved on....

That's just me. Maybe I will listen to the entire 7 minutes eventually but the first minutes lost me.

That's seems to, in a round about way, be what the few people who have gave me feedback think, the part about it being kinda slow at the beginning. At the time I was recording the video my thought was to have some good build up before the juggling and loop switches, but looking back, I think it's a little to much build up. The whole set is half freestyle and the intro was totally pulled out my ass.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not even Gonna ask if it hurt my ears R still burning

benny.......... nice quote (NH,NM,NS)

I didn't want to be out done ;)

did you use the SYNC on that quote?

Theres a SYNC? Nah I just freestyled it

Man I'm sorry that part just makes me Laugh Hard Bro..

and Don't ask me if I'm High LOL

latindj likes all the input he can get!

LatinDj Must be on vacation

or just pulling it out his ass!!!!!

thats what i hear

You guys are cracking my ass up.

He is known for that!

FIXED

FIXED

LOL

FIXED

HAHAHAHA

DOUBLE FIXED

REEEEEEEEEMIX!

HAT TRICK (NM)

TEA BAG (NM)