Serato Software Feature Suggestions

What features would you like to see in Serato software?

SL4 BOX (DJ MEL EDITION)

djmel 1:32 AM - 7 June, 2010
THE SL4 BOX WILL BE USB 3.0 AND SATA 6.0 AND FIREWIRE B(1400GBPS)AND OPTICAL DIGITAL IT WILL ALSO BE BACKWARD COMPATIBLEWITH OLD USB,SATA AND FIRE WIRE, IT WILL ALSO BOAST OUT 16/32/64 BIT SOUND AT OPTIMUM 192K.IT WILL SUPPORT MP3,WAV,MP3 PRO AND BEATNIK.THE BOX WILL ALSO BE CUSTOMIZABLE WITH DIFFERENT SHELL YOU AND BUY FOR THEM AND WRAPS......JUST A THOUGHT,,,HOPE IT DONT GET STOLEN.
Laz219 1:49 AM - 7 June, 2010
LET'S TYPE REALLY BIG ABOUT IT THEN.

USB 3.0 will be a given once it becomes the normal.
SATA though- why would you want to run SATA for an audio interface?
Firewire- Has been requested a lot so people can free up USB ports but speed is barely even relevant.

Seems like it's all aobut the numbers rather than any practical purpose.
djmel 2:12 AM - 7 June, 2010
sata is faster then usb. thats why
Laz219 2:18 AM - 7 June, 2010
Considering USB2.0 has a theoretical limit of 480mbps, what possible need for any extra speed could you have for DVS software?
Have you ever hit a limit with USB while DJing that a higher transfer rate could fix?
Voyager529 6:19 PM - 7 June, 2010
I'll pretty much underscore what Laz said; I don't think that speed is an issue.

I do wonder, however, if the hardware controller on the firewire port would be a bit better choice in order to improve latency without relying on the CPU to do it.

Joey
skinnyguy 7:00 PM - 7 June, 2010
and it will have a touchscreen. and built in wi-fi. it will also smell like bacon, cure acne, and be made of carbon fiber with unicorn horn inlays.

all this, in a very pocketable size.

it won't cost much more than a SL7.
Laz219 1:06 AM - 8 June, 2010
This topic does come up pretty often with someone saying they want some kind of other connection because it's capable of XXXXmbps. There is just no real purpose for Scratch Live.

The only other kind of connection I think is useful is firewire, not for speed but just for practicality reasons.
Dj Farhan 1:12 AM - 11 June, 2010
Quote:
LET'S TYPE REALLY BIG ABOUT IT THEN.


haha
djmel 12:39 PM - 14 June, 2010
ya ll kats are funny :@) but the reason i only suggest these diff hook ups is that ur not always tied to using just the usb ports( many people on this site have already complained that serato needs to make aq box with diff ports just to free up ur usb ports if u dont wan use them) also the reason im recommending these faster ports is cause of latency and for higher sound quality to be xfer between the box and you tt or cd decks(imagine this, if u could hook up to cd decks with just 2 cables, not rca, im talking optical or digital..and you have all high grade cables running thru ur set up down the core...one ur gone use and not lose or damage so many cables. also your sound quality would be way better)also like is said these newer pc and laptops are coming with e sata and the firewire and pci slots built on them already..so why not use them...this is just a thought and a idea i have .. i know this my never go into production.
Laz219 11:24 PM - 14 June, 2010
Digital inputs for timecode...we had an exceptionally long discussion on that recently. It's just not necessary.

How is sound quality going to be improved by faster transfer speeds?
Does 1ms latency really need to be improved on?
djmel 3:25 AM - 15 June, 2010
yesit will an it does when ur mixin n scratching double n triple time. u will notice
Laz219 3:31 AM - 15 June, 2010
I really wouldn't expect latency to be much improved on, I mean 1ms to have signal go from the needle, into a computer, be processed and converted to audio and then sent back out has to be near a physical limit.
djmel 4:16 AM - 15 June, 2010
but think about it,....if u can get the speed of the info to increase by that one second with higher xfer rates between that box and the faster processor and ddr 3 mem thats out now, we or you just may be able to push that mark and push it with all high end sound quality..like i said its just a thought and idea i have.....will it ever happen....prob not ...would be nice though...but i dont work at rane so ya know......((then just think of the higher sound quality u can push with the optical or digital line cable...thats where u would really need the speed to xfer info from the sl4 box to the pc or laptop.
Voyager529 12:47 AM - 18 June, 2010
let's do this by the numbers...

1.) there is a difference between throughput and latency. A port with faster throughput will be able to push higher quantities of data over the same period of time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the higher quantities of data will be transferred and processed by SSL any quicker. The SL3 isn't saturating the USB 2.0 bus with data that it needs more bandwidth, it's sending a relatively small amount of data that just needs to get there fast. Similarly, just because your shiny new laptop has DDR3 RAM and a Core i7 doesn't necessarily mean that SSL won't hit a bottleneck with your bus speed; that'll be the limiting factor regardless of what you plug it into.

2.) no matter what timecode system you have, you'll always have SOME latency due to the fact that, by its nature, the application needs to perform audio processing mapped to the needle location. An alternate thing to think about is that you'll actually WANT a hair of latency in there, because otherwise every dust particle and fingerprint on your record will wreak havoc on your set, since SSL will detect it as "not sending signal". The only way to combat this is to pack the bits even denser on the timecode (which I don't believe is even possible on the CD media), and then you run into other issues of wearing out the vinyl even faster, and again having your error rates go up. If 1ms is too much latency for you, you'll be hard pressed to fix that technologically; your best bet is, quite bluntly, to stick with regular vinyl.

3.) If you're losing or damaging your RCA cables going from your CDJs, investing in a set or two of these (www.monoprice.com) would probably do you well. To make your point though, I think that having a S/PDIF input on the SL4 would be sweet. Ironically enough, although my turntables, CD decks, and digital controller all have S/PDIF outs, neither of my mixers have S/PDIF inputs. That said, I don't think that you'll be gaining THAT much by going optical over analog RCA.

4.) eSATA is simply not an option. eSATA is nothing more than a fancier plastic shell around an internal SATA port. There's a reason why the only thing you see an eSATA port on is hard disks - SATA isn't designed for anything else. There were no IDE interfaces for anything but hard drives and optical drives; the latter was really ATAPI which was a grand workaround as opposed to much of anything else. SATA (and eSATA) goes into a SATA controller, and even if YOU have the most exotic motherboard that can somehow support ASIO/CoreAudio over SATA, you're in the distinct minority. PCI slots on laptops? citation needed. Quite bluntly, you don't want one. In laptop terms they're huge, many require cooling, they need internal space, and they require power. These are three things that laptops don't exactly excel at to begin with...now add in the wildcard of a PCI slot. Again, I think that somewhere, there's a laptop that's got one. It doesn't merit R&D on it, though. If you're referring to Expresscard then that's a bit closer, but you're then really limiting it to newer laptops, foregoing older-but-capable models with PCMCIA slots, higher end netbooks, and all desktops (think studio installations). Firewire has about the most promise out of all of them, but despite the dedicated hardware firewire controller (USB offloads to CPU), I don't know how the latency is affected. Also, the device would have to be both FW400 and FW800 compatible, with cables for each permutation. It's not completely beyond being done, but there are even issues there. One quick practical one is that USB cables are a dime a dozen. I've got a box full of them at work, and heck you can buy one at a 24-hour drugstore if you realize you lost one. a FW800->FW400 cable is much harder to come by in a pinch, and few people have a box of them lying around. It's worth the extra 0.1ms latency to me to know that I won't be screwed if I forget a cable.

5.) My laptop has four USB ports, as do most 17" laptops I'm aware of. I know that certain Macbook models have only three, so I'll work with that. I like to use an external mouse, a MIDI controller, and of course my SL3. That's three ports right there, so the fourth would be what, an external hard drive? While I could certainly see that being the case in some respects (i.e. video DJing), they now have terabyte laptop hard drives (www.newegg.com). Having all your music with you is an understandable safety net, but 800GBytes of music is A LOT OF MP3s! Even as WAV files, that's still quite literally representing a metric ton of vinyl that you're not lugging around. Swap out the mouse, or hub it with the hard drive, assuming that it's independently powered. Extra port nice? sure, I'll +1 that one. The issue is simply finding a suitable replacement that doesn't cause more problems than it solves, and for now, it seems quite the challenge to opt for something besides USB. Personally, I'd just like to see 6 USB ports start showing up on laptops.

Joey
Laz219 1:40 AM - 18 June, 2010
Most laptop that were full PCI capable used external 'docks' for the cards.

Anyway, cheers for the lengthy post. It's exactly what I couldn't be bothered typing.
Evil_banana 8:24 AM - 18 June, 2010
e-sata may be faster but... have you ever seen any device other than hard-drives that use e-sata?

Maybe it's simply not meant for anything else... just an idea
djmel 8:38 AM - 19 June, 2010
joey as a a+ tech that i am , when you break it down like that how you just did . ur 100% correct. i couldnt not even complain one bit on all your info cause when i think bout it ur .....well.....$#@!.....ur right :@) but like i said ...it was just a idea..(( now that joey has ruined them :@) ..just kidding ..)) well.... on to the next..now i got to think of a way to build and improve the ssl 5 box dj mel ver...again....this time ill have to think of a way for all of us that dont have midi controllers and ttm57 mixer to make the video sl manipulate and work like it does on a ttm56 or 05 06 07 or 08 vestax pro and etc.....joey... i know...ur gone shatter my dreams and ideas ahahhahaha. but thanks for every ones in put on here i never thought a small time guy like me with a simple fantasy idea would get this much rec.
Mutis 10:16 AM - 21 June, 2010
Firewire box will be nice but prescindible.

just my2cents
djmel 6:57 AM - 23 June, 2010
u maybe right sir.
nik39 8:12 PM - 17 July, 2010
Quote:
let's do this by the numbers...

1.) there is a difference between throughput and latency. A port with faster throughput will be able to push higher quantities of data over the same period of time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the higher quantities of data will be transferred and processed by SSL any quicker. The SL3 isn't saturating the USB 2.0 bus with data that it needs more bandwidth, it's sending a relatively small amount of data that just needs to get there fast. Similarly, just because your shiny new laptop has DDR3 RAM and a Core i7 doesn't necessarily mean that SSL won't hit a bottleneck with your bus speed; that'll be the limiting factor regardless of what you plug it into.

2.) no matter what timecode system you have, you'll always have SOME latency due to the fact that, by its nature, the application needs to perform audio processing mapped to the needle location. An alternate thing to think about is that you'll actually WANT a hair of latency in there, because otherwise every dust particle and fingerprint on your record will wreak havoc on your set, since SSL will detect it as "not sending signal". The only way to combat this is to pack the bits even denser on the timecode (which I don't believe is even possible on the CD media), and then you run into other issues of wearing out the vinyl even faster, and again having your error rates go up. If 1ms is too much latency for you, you'll be hard pressed to fix that technologically; your best bet is, quite bluntly, to stick with regular vinyl.

3.) If you're losing or damaging your RCA cables going from your CDJs, investing in a set or two of these (www.monoprice.com) would probably do you well. To make your point though, I think that having a S/PDIF input on the SL4 would be sweet. Ironically enough, although my turntables, CD decks, and digital controller all have S/PDIF outs, neither of my mixers have S/PDIF inputs. That said, I don't think that you'll be gaining THAT much by going optical over analog RCA.

4.) eSATA is simply not an option. eSATA is nothing more than a fancier plastic shell around an internal SATA port. There's a reason why the only thing you see an eSATA port on is hard disks - SATA isn't designed for anything else. There were no IDE interfaces for anything but hard drives and optical drives; the latter was really ATAPI which was a grand workaround as opposed to much of anything else. SATA (and eSATA) goes into a SATA controller, and even if YOU have the most exotic motherboard that can somehow support ASIO/CoreAudio over SATA, you're in the distinct minority. PCI slots on laptops? citation needed. Quite bluntly, you don't want one. In laptop terms they're huge, many require cooling, they need internal space, and they require power. These are three things that laptops don't exactly excel at to begin with...now add in the wildcard of a PCI slot. Again, I think that somewhere, there's a laptop that's got one. It doesn't merit R&D on it, though. If you're referring to Expresscard then that's a bit closer, but you're then really limiting it to newer laptops, foregoing older-but-capable models with PCMCIA slots, higher end netbooks, and all desktops (think studio installations). Firewire has about the most promise out of all of them, but despite the dedicated hardware firewire controller (USB offloads to CPU), I don't know how the latency is affected. Also, the device would have to be both FW400 and FW800 compatible, with cables for each permutation. It's not completely beyond being done, but there are even issues there. One quick practical one is that USB cables are a dime a dozen. I've got a box full of them at work, and heck you can buy one at a 24-hour drugstore if you realize you lost one. a FW800->FW400 cable is much harder to come by in a pinch, and few people have a box of them lying around. It's worth the extra 0.1ms latency to me to know that I won't be screwed if I forget a cable.

5.) My laptop has four USB ports, as do most 17" laptops I'm aware of. I know that certain Macbook models have only three, so I'll work with that. I like to use an external mouse, a MIDI controller, and of course my SL3. That's three ports right there, so the fourth would be what, an external hard drive? While I could certainly see that being the case in some respects (i.e. video DJing), they now have terabyte laptop hard drives (www.newegg.com). Having all your music with you is an understandable safety net, but 800GBytes of music is A LOT OF MP3s! Even as WAV files, that's still quite literally representing a metric ton of vinyl that you're not lugging around. Swap out the mouse, or hub it with the hard drive, assuming that it's independently powered. Extra port nice? sure, I'll +1 that one. The issue is simply finding a suitable replacement that doesn't cause more problems than it solves, and for now, it seems quite the challenge to opt for something besides USB. Personally, I'd just like to see 6 USB ports start showing up on laptops.

Joey

I'm tempted to say "pwned"... but seriously you explained things so well and AFAIK technically correct ... that you most likely flew over the OP's head.
nik39 8:13 PM - 17 July, 2010
Oh, and ... that was a nice post. Refreshing to read it here in the feature suggestions area :)
djmel 12:45 AM - 18 July, 2010
thanks nik..i guess.... :{...i dont know :@)...like i said yall this was just idea i had in my head one day while sitting here on this site((i never thought it would get this much spark at all for real ))