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Since Numark Tech Support Reps are [expletive removed]... I'll Elaborate...
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Since Numark Tech Support Reps are [expletive removed]... I'll Elaborate...

djmeltdown 6:11 AM - 9 March, 2010
** NS7/ITCH PC Users who are looking for an answer and dont want to read my story, just scroll to the bottom, otherwise you can read through while i vent my frustration and rail on Numark for being completely technologically incompetent **

Bought my NS7 about 3-4 weeks ago. Did my first gig sight unseen, unpacked the box at the gig, loaded the software, hooked up my external HD. (Ballsy, I know). Rocked the show with absolutely no problems, no audio dropouts, no waveform lag, no glitches.

Comp Specs -> Averatec 1200 Series
2.2Ghz AMD Athlon X2
Vista Pro X86
4GB RAM
250GB HDD
NS7 out of the box - Itch 1.1 w/ bundled drivers/firmware

About 4 days after the gig, I finally got around to hooking it up in my studio, Actually loading the music on the hard drive (instead of the external), analyzing files, and setting up crates. I loaded Itch 1.5 and the latest driver. After spending 18 hours analyzing all my music, and the good part of another day organizing them into Crates, i fired up Itch to play a live webcast on Ustream, and had NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS.

Music was dropping out, Controller was losing connectivity, waveforms were choppy, and the controller was locking up all-together. I had abort my show mid-broadcast.

I called Numark the following Monday and was told the root cause of my problems was that I was using a Laptop with an AMD Processor, and Itch doesnt support AMD processors?? WHAT?? Why did It work great out of the box?? ok fine, you got me...it just so happens i own 5 laptops, so let the russian roulette begin.

Grabbed my gateway, loaded itch, latest drivers, plopped music on there, analyzed, sorted..etc....

Gateway Specs -> Gateway W650I
Vista Home Premium X64
2.0Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM
320GB HDD
Itch 1.5 / 2.9.9 Beta X64 Drivers

Fire it up to test it out.... same issues, dropped audio, latency, bullshit... WTF!!!

Called Numark again (on a tuesday), didnt get a callback until Thursday afternoon while I was at work, I told Numark their support hours are very inconvenient for those of us that have day jobs...

The support rep told me that he would call me first thing (7:30AM) the next morning (Friday) and sort everything out, which was a relief to me since my gig was Saturday night.

Friday morning came and went, 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, 10:30... no calls...nothing, not an email, not a peep. WTF? Now I'm pissed...because like EVERY FUCKING THING ELSE, I have to fix it myself.

Now, I'm lucky that I'm a Network Administrator by trade, and I've worked with computers for the last 15 years, I'd like to think I know what I'm doing a little more than the average Joe, however, when you drop $1500 on a piece of electronics, you expect it to WORK!!, or at least have someone on the other end of the phone that can help you make it work. But Numark says, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, THATS TOO FUCKING CONVENIENT...

So Friday night I'm up until 5AM fucking around, partitioning drives, and installing operating systems so that I could have an Intel based machine, that met the minimum tech requirements, running a 32-bit OS (so i dont have to rely on BETA BULLSHIT).

Finally at about 6pm on Saturday night (3 hours before my gig), I got everything Ironed out, except for little issue...

SO... if you have an NS7, you're using a PC, and your STILL looking for an answer on how to get your Itch Controller to work... this is what I did...

Find a PC with the required minimum tech specs...Intel Core 2 Duo, preferrably 4GB of RAM, and a shitload of hard drive space should do..
Wipe that fucker clean, install either XP SP2/3 (32-bit) or Vista 32-bit.
Install only the drivers you absolutely need (for me, that was video & wireless lan).
Follow the Vista tuning tips on Serato's website if you installed Vista.
Transfer your music, etc...
Install itch, and the drivers for the NS7.
Fire up itch...
** HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE FOR ME **
Once itch is running, right click on your taskbar and pull up Task manager... go to processes, right click on the "ITCH" process and set the processor threading priority to "HIGH"... it will pop-up a warning telling you it could fuck something up, just do it.

MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS AT THE BEGINNING OF EVERY GIG, NOT IN THE MIDDLE. If you do it while a song is playing, the audio will drop out, dont say I didnt warn you.

I still have one outstanding issue that I'll work out sometime this week, for some reason when I fired up at the club, I wanted to analyze the 50 or so tracks in my set, but my "analyze" button was missing....not sure why, or where it went, but it's on vacation.

So there it is... eventhough Numark and Serato say that Itch works with this spec & that spec, or this machine and that machine... you really have 2 fucking options...

32-bit Windows or buy a damn Mac.
casket hands 6:18 AM - 9 March, 2010
I only read to the part where you wrote AMD and lost sympathy.
kraal 6:24 AM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:
....

32-bit Windows or buy a damn Mac.

you could of saved time and just posted what is written in the SPECS for the NS& on windows

"Note: 64 bit Windows is not supported, if you are purchasing a Windows machine for ITCH please ensure it has a 32 bit Windows installation."
djmeltdown 6:28 AM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:

"Note: 64 bit Windows is not supported, if you are purchasing a Windows machine for ITCH please ensure it has a 32 bit Windows installation."


NOWHERE on the Numark website does it have that verbage..
64-bit Windows Vista is officially supported according to Numark with 64 bit driver version 2.9.3
Windows 7 64-bit, however, is still in Beta.

Windows
32-bit Windows 7, Vista, or XP
32-bit requirements: 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo processor; 2MB L2 cache; 2GB RAM(Win Vista), 1GB RAM(XP)
64-bit Windows Vista
64-bit requirements: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo processor; 2MB L2 cache; 4GB RAM
1024 x 768 screen resolution
Available USB 2.0 port
Available Hard disk space for music

Note: Beta drivers are now available for the NS7 which offer unofficial support for 64-bit versions of Windows 7. We recommend a minimum 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo processor; 3MB L2 cache; 4GB RAM for 64-bit operation. You can always find the latest drivers for the NS7 here
djcerla 8:56 AM - 9 March, 2010
@ djmeltdown

You were simply underspec'd. These are the minimum requirements for Windows operation:

32-bit requirements: 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo processor (clearly, it's an Intel processor)
your system: 2.2Ghz AMD Athlon X2

64-bit requirements: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo processor
your system: 2.0Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo

Researching before buying is always a good idea. While throwing names like "FUCKTARD" to others, when you are the only one to blame for the poor results, just makes you look dumb and arrogant.
I1Kirm 9:00 AM - 9 March, 2010
btw, the analyze button will come back from vacations once you unplug your controller. In other words, strictly for performance issues, analyzing many songs at once is only possible when the player is offline mode.
Rjc 9:26 AM - 9 March, 2010
RTFM and spare us your negative energy.
Mr. White 10:56 AM - 9 March, 2010
Buy a mac

DJ Jazzy Jetta
nik39 11:09 AM - 9 March, 2010
While I agree that the words used here are not nice I understand the essence and the frustration.

Quote:
You were simply underspec'd. These are the minimum requirements for Windows operation:

32-bit requirements: 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo processor (clearly, it's an Intel processor)
your system: 2.2Ghz AMD Athlon X2

64-bit requirements: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo processor
your system: 2.0Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo

I don't think that just from these words it is obvious that it *must* be an Intel processor. The average user would think "okay, processing power wise you need something equivalent to a Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz".

However the current min specs (listed on www.serato.com ) mention that it *must* be an Intel processor. All these "buy 2Ghz, but not AMD, get Vista but not 64Bit, get OSX but not 10.5.7" etc. makes it hard for the average user. I always thought SSL and Itch should make things easier.
KLH 4:15 PM - 9 March, 2010
+1

... but I like the OP's name (DJ Meltdown). Funny in light of the first post.

-KLH
djmeltdown 4:51 PM - 9 March, 2010
ok maybe i went a bit overboard... but there are 2 points im trying to drive across

minimum requirements have nothing to do with it.... i did some experiments last night and logged the HAL interaction with the processor while itch was running.

I noticed that with a 64-bit operation system there were almost 12x as many system wait calls that were jamming the busses than with the 32-bit systems...not sure why.

I was also able to get it running last night on a 1.6Ghz Intel Pentium 4, 1GB RAM, XP 32-bit machine, working just fine.

So the problem seems to be with the programming in the 64-bit options.

Secondly, if someone from tech support says they are going to call you at a certain time/date....make sure it happens...
nik39 5:25 PM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:
Secondly, if someone from tech support says they are going to call you at a certain time/date....make sure it happens...

I completely agree.
Rjc 5:42 PM - 9 March, 2010
but if your attitude towards tech support was anything remotely as negative as your post here, maybe that played a part in them not calling you back. Karma?
djmeltdown 5:48 PM - 9 March, 2010
@Rjc, i can see your point. But the attitude was earned, not given.

I didn't call them and bitch them out the first time I was on the phone... I allowed them to do what they were going to do, I even accepted the fact that it wouldnt run on an AMD.

But just as my customers dont like if i'm late, or dont show up for a gig without notice, when Numark says they are going to call... I expect the call.
spazz 12:06 AM - 10 March, 2010
true dat...
marcA 8:24 AM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
i did some experiments last night and logged the HAL interaction with the processor while itch was running..

what did you use to detect this? i'm willing to see what gives on my quad x64 w7...
skratchworx 8:41 AM - 10 March, 2010
Whether it be Mac or Windows, isn't it just a precaution NOT to run 64 bit? Seems to cause more problems than it solves at the moment. It's not like 32bit runs like a glitchy bugfest or anything.

On my Mac, it's a simple matter of rebooting to get full fat 64bit, but can you run 32bit inside a 64bit Windows install? Or do you have to install different versions?
marcA 9:27 AM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
Whether it be Mac or Windows, isn't it just a precaution NOT to run 64 bit? Seems to cause more problems than it solves at the moment. It's not like 32bit runs like a glitchy bugfest or anything.

On my Mac, it's a simple matter of rebooting to get full fat 64bit, but can you run 32bit inside a 64bit Windows install? Or do you have to install different versions?

imho 64bit is the way to go...all processors are 64 bit so it is a bit of a waste to 'just run 32bit'
you can run 32 bit apps on a 64bit windows, after all itch is only 32bit

my machine is 64bit but i also run virtual machines for programs who aren't compatible, and that's not a matter of 64 vs 32 but more a matter of where the app want's to read and write from on the disk; microsoft has a nasty habit of renaming all important folders with every version :(

the problem is with the numark 64bit driver i suppose, but since it is still beta one really can't complain ...
that said, i'm not having real problems with my x64 setup...
djmeltdown 3:14 PM - 10 March, 2010
@marcA its a custom batch script i wrote. I can send it to your, but you'll have to change a few values in the script, based on the individual information in your registry. If your familiar with C# code you should have no problem.

@scratchworx most everything is moving to a 64-bit platform, windows, linux & mac have it all figured out, not sure why Numark can't grasp the concept

@marcA you are correct, the 64-bit drivers are the problem, otherwise you could just run the program in WinXP compatibility mode.
nik39 3:19 PM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
its a custom batch script i wrote.

I'm interested in it as well :)
marcA 4:32 PM - 10 March, 2010
@meltdown :)
i'm coding in delphi, c# is a child of delphi :)
so that should be fine
it would be interesting to see if an intel handles things differently...
marcA 4:32 PM - 10 March, 2010
btw, i have a strong feeling that numark is relying on a 3rd party for the drivers...
marcA 4:33 PM - 10 March, 2010
disclaimer: the above statement is not an official one :)
just something dwelling in my mind
djmeltdown 4:45 PM - 10 March, 2010
when i get home tonight, i'll see if i can compile it and export it as a self-installer. if so, i'll post it here
kraal 4:53 PM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
btw, i have a strong feeling that numark is relying on a 3rd party for the drivers...

makes since they are a hardware company not software
Numark, Support
sbangs 9:44 PM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:

Friday morning came and went, 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, 10:30... no calls...nothing, not an email, not a peep.


Hello, DJ Meltdown.
Sorry to hear that you have had a problem.
I understand from our tracking system that our representatives where unable to reach you at 7:30 and then later at 11 am but they left you a message. Im sorry they where unable to speak to you. Im glad to hear you where able to resolve the problem.

Please be aware we have posted warnings regarding the nature 64 bit support on www.numark.com This has been posted on the website since the release of the drivers. It is not our intention to mislead people about the status of the drivers.r

"Note: Beta drivers are now available for the NS7 which offer unofficial support for 64-bit versions of Windows 7. We recommend a minimum 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor; 3MB L2 cache; 4GB RAM for 64-bit operation. You can always find the latest drivers for the NS7 here."

We are currently working to improve the drivers as we do understand the importance of 64 bit support. We would value feedback in the beta area for the drivers you can find it at www.serato.com

Kind Regards

Simon
djmeltdown 10:06 PM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
Hello, DJ Meltdown.
Sorry to hear that you have had a problem.
I understand from our tracking system that our representatives where unable to reach you at 7:30 and then later at 11 am but they left you a message.


Liars! Don't make me post my blackberry calls database...

Incoming 3/2/2010 1:14pm CST 401-658-3131 Duration : 3:57
Incoming 3/4/2010 12:28pm CST 401-658-3131 Duration : 1:11
Outgoing 3/8/2010 8:12am CST 401-658-3131 Duration : 0:34
Outgoing 3/8/2010 8:13am CST 401-658-3131 Duration : 0:10
Outgoing 3/8/2010 8:13am CST 401-658-3131 Duration : 0:11

...nothing else from a 401 area code

better check your crystal ball, ahem, tracking system again..
Cid K 10:27 PM - 10 March, 2010
Chillout bro, he's willing to help you out, but with that attitude, you will get banned from Serato forum.

Come on bro, we all understand your frustration but there's no need to be aggressive like that.
djmeltdown 10:43 PM - 10 March, 2010
Quote:
he's willing to help you out


He should be willing to help me out, he's got $1500 from me.

I wasn't being agressive, if I was being agressive i would have told him to go f**k himself.

Instead I'm just calling him out... Its 2010, there is no need for companies to have s****y customer service. It just seems like every company you come in contact with it gets worse and worse.

I'm forgiving, I understand mistakes happen, but don't try and cover it up with a lie...man up and admit that one of your employees made a mistake.

How about, "we're sorry, we forgot to call, or we were busy helping other customers, or something along those lines". Don't blatantly lie to me.
djcerla 11:05 PM - 10 March, 2010
How I miss the '90s, when DJ were smiling, nice persons, and not arrogant nerds.
I1Kirm 11:31 PM - 10 March, 2010
^ Most probably It was the drugs...
djcerla 11:35 PM - 10 March, 2010
ahah agreed
nik39 11:56 PM - 10 March, 2010
Uhm, I understand that the words from djmeltdown are not the right words, but why is this forum getting censored (except for illegal activities) in such a way that the topics are getting edited? Not cool.
djcerla 12:25 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
why is this forum getting censored (except for illegal activities) in such a way that the topics are getting edited? Not cool.


because the word that was edited was in stark violation of rule #1: be nice to others (where "others" include Numark guys obviously).
I1Kirm 12:25 AM - 11 March, 2010
??? Not following you Nik...
nik39 12:35 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
??? Not following you Nik...

The topic says
"Since Numark Tech Support Reps are [expletive removed]... I'll Elaborate..."

[expletive removed] has been edited.

Quote:
Quote:
why is this forum getting censored (except for illegal activities) in such a way that the topics are getting edited? Not cool.


because the word that was edited was in stark violation of rule #1: be nice to others (where "others" include Numark guys obviously).

So what? I haven't come across a single thread were name calling, profanity has been edited out. Only illegal activities, email addresses etc. But suddenly when a someone from the staff is affected it gets edited out.

I don't think this is the right way.

In the end, let the reader decide whether the profanity is necessary or not. The reader will decide whether the name calling was justified and/or necessary and how much credit they will give to the author.
nik39 12:36 AM - 11 March, 2010
Plus this is not USA and radio/TV, where people should not hear cuss words etc.

*beep*
kraal 12:43 AM - 11 March, 2010
because it is a thread title....
Rjc 12:45 AM - 11 March, 2010
they are Serato's business partners, what do you expect?
It's not like they cut the entire post and didn't let the accusations stand.
kraal 12:47 AM - 11 March, 2010
for proper business you dont want potential buyers to browse a forum with a bunch of cussing in the thread titles
nik39 12:51 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
for proper business you dont want potential buyers to browse a forum with a bunch of cussing in the thread titles

Tsk, I could give examples where users were called names in thread titles and those threads titles were not edited in any way.

Censoring in such a way is not cool, and definitly not necessary IMHO.
djcerla 1:01 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
I could give examples where users were called names in thread titles and those threads titles were not edited in any way.


Why stopping to "I could"? Just give us the links!
kraal 1:09 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
for proper business you dont want potential buyers to browse a forum with a bunch of cussing in the thread titles

Tsk, I could give examples where users were called names in thread titles and those threads titles were not edited in any way.

Censoring in such a way is not cool, and definitly not necessary IMHO.

and those links should be edited to.... the point of free speech isn't to go around cursing and calling people names
nik39 1:18 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I could give examples where users were called names in thread titles and those threads titles were not edited in any way.


Why stopping to "I could"? Just give us the links!

I've read quite a few threads on this forum, been on this forum for some time and if me memory serves right, there were threads with blatant name calling. I would like to prove it to you, but the search function is not as powerfull as it used to be. (Try it for yourself, you can't restrict searching in the topic for example, and on top the number of search hits are limited (only a thousand-something are being displayed)).

Anyway, regardless of that, I don't see a difference between a threads title and the content in terms of why one should be edited and the other should not.

Quote:
the point of free speech isn't to go around cursing and calling people names

C'mon, no one is getting hurt by those stupid remarks. It's not that we are condoning racial remarks or similar. Speaking of that, I can give you examples were racial slurs have been made in forum posts and those have not been edited out either. IMHO, this is much worse than reading a stupid "fucktards" comment in a threads title.
djcerla 1:30 AM - 11 March, 2010
mmm... I was banned (banned!) some months ago from reFX support forum for having written that their delivery service is the "worst in industry" (it actually is: 25 days of delivery from Canada, and it's a software). No offense, just that single sentence. I was banned.

As far as I know, nobody has never been banned here, despite all kinds of reiterated terms violation; so draw your conclusions.
nik39 1:33 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
As far as I know, nobody has never been banned here, despite all kinds of reiterated terms violation; so draw your conclusions.

Are you saying no one has been banned from this forums here?
djcerla 1:35 AM - 11 March, 2010
Not on the ITCH forum, as far as I know.
Serato, Support
ChrisD 1:37 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
Speaking of that, I can give you examples were racial slurs have been made in forum posts and those have not been edited out either.

I'd like to see that. Must've been before my time.

Quote:
IMHO, this is much worse than reading a stupid "fucktards" comment in a threads title.

Maybe, but calling someone a fucktard is always unnecessary IMHO. Having it in a thread title doubly so.

Anyway, let's not send this thread off on too much of a tangent. If anyone wants to discuss forum moderation issues with me PMs or a dedicated thread are the best way to do it.
nik39 1:53 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
Not on the ITCH forum, as far as I know.

This forum consists much more that the Itch subforum. I've been reading a lot since the early beginnings of this forum and there were definitly bans.
nik39 1:53 AM - 11 March, 2010
Quote:
I'd like to see that. Must've been before my time.

Yep.

Quote:
If anyone wants to discuss forum moderation issues with me PMs or a dedicated thread are the best way to do it.

Ok.
sunnyred 3:59 AM - 11 March, 2010
"i just wanna say can we all just get along"
czar 3:05 PM - 11 March, 2010
why cant we be friends?
nik39 3:33 PM - 11 March, 2010
This one? newmediachatter.com