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Is another platform divide about to be created?
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Is another platform divide about to be created?

Black Science 2:23 PM - 18 January, 2010
OK, let me preface this post by stating that I have limited knowledge about Serato's ITCH software. I'm a long-time vinyl spinner (18 years) and SL user (5 years) and have ITCH loaded on one of my machines to begin familiarizing myself with the GUI and SL file sharing structure, but have yet to actually perform with ITCH. I suspect that at some point I will eventually start using ITCH during gigs when TTs are not present and I'm currently studying the various ITCH controllers that have started entering the market.

Anyway, since I just recently learned that Numark's new V7 ITCH controller doesn't work with SL's virtual decks and that the new Rane 68 doesn't have ITCH controls, this got me thinking what might be starting to happen in the industry (like CD vs DVS). If I'm not mistaken, aren't the virtual decks within NI's TSP software able to be operated via timecode, MIDI and HID? If this is true it makes sense to me since it would be consolidated so that all users can jump on and perform no matter which controllers they're are using, but it looks like Serato is making so that you have to go one route or the other.

With Serato, if you are using TT/CD timecode you choose ITCH and if you use a MIDI controller you use ITCH. With NI, you use TSP no matter what you are using for controllers. I realize SL and ITCH share the same file structure so users can bounce back and forth between the two environments with content continuity, but it looks to me like Serato is creating a divide on the controller side (in the club environment) where as NI isn't. If I'm correct then this is potentially a huge problem for many users and market share of Rane/Serato. Do you guys see where I'm going with this? Am I even correct or am I totally missing something here? I'm trying to form some long-term hardware/software plans and this "divide" thing has just hit me. Any help from those who are totally dialed into the ITCH thing would be appreciated. Thanks
Logisticalstyles 2:41 PM - 18 January, 2010
I kinda understand what you are saying, but I don't think it will happen. I had the chance to use an NS7 with Itch for a few hours last week and as dope as it is I don't see it becoming a big thing for clubs. Most club jocks are using Scratch Live so I doubt many will want to change over to Itch. It may catch on with the mobile market or maybe even in the studios, but not at the club. I could be wrong, but thats just my opinion.
HYDRO MATIC 3:57 PM - 18 January, 2010
Honestly I LOVE...LOVE using vinyl controllers but if I was going to switch I would only go with the NS7...But I do partly agree with Black Science ....
It would be dope if I could hook the NS7 standalone controllers or the NS7 itself without having to purchase the ITCH software and still use the exact same SSL setup...
However What I really want is the ability to just use SSL...Id still pay for the full price of the NS7 or wahtever controller "IF" I didnt have to use a different software as similar as they may be...but Id pay full price cuase SERATO has been very giving and rock solid reliable and you cant put a price on that....
Black Science 4:12 PM - 18 January, 2010
The dilemma I think I see coming is more from a controller standpoint because SL and ITCH software is both free. If Serato/Rane are looking establish a new club standard, then I'm seeing a roadblock due to the divide coming from the different hardware needed to run the to programs. We all know TTs are becoming non-existent in venues and CDs' days are numbered as well, so with that in mind ITCH and other controller+software systems are most definitely the future of DJing, but because you can't run ITCH with controllers made for SL and vice versa, and with that comes the rub (as I understand it). It seems to me that if true domination and harmony in the booth is to be achieved, there needs to be controllers/mixers that work with SL and ITCH (and TSP). Til that happens the divide exists and the chaos that comes with it.
Dj Ace 4:32 PM - 18 January, 2010
I dont see what the problem is...both programs are free. If you get to the club and they hayve an SSL box, 57sl, or hopefully a 68 then you open and run scratchlive...if the club just has rca or mixing board to plug in us the system of your choice, and lastly if they have an itch controller then you run itch! but In reality, most clubs nowadays (that I have experienced) want you to bring your own setup coz dj's have a tendency to trash/steal the house equipment...so umm problem solved?
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:35 PM - 18 January, 2010
Quote:
In reality, most clubs nowadays (that I have experienced) want you to bring your own setup coz dj's have a tendency to trash/steal the house equipment...so umm problem solved?


+1, must be nice to live in a bigger city where they provide equipment lol
Dj Ace 4:38 PM - 18 January, 2010
Plus, there are a lot of DVS system to choose from so it makes since to have the dj provide his own setup...well minus the speakers LOL so again...problem solved for the local DJ! On the contrast if you are a global dj doing features at concerts and clubs worldwide then you have to request equipment of your choice on the rider anyway so yeah problems solved
Dj Ace 4:49 PM - 18 January, 2010
My real wish is that itch becomes the mobile guys bread and butter. the controllers are professional, small, and do auto sync! Then the new 68 rane mixer will be the new game changing club standard mixer and scratchlive with be the ONLY choice for club/concert performance oriented DJ's...Two professional products geared toward two different DJ types and if you happen to be both a successful wedding and a club DJ, I am sure you should have no problem affording the hardware to use both products...
Dj Ace 4:57 PM - 18 January, 2010
sorry for all the post...LOL

But as you can tell from my post, i think there should be a dividing line...and it will be there not to seperate DJ's types but to maintain what DJ's have worked to hard to achieve in the last three decades. And in case you wondered, I use both products in exactly the way i stated above
Black Science 5:12 PM - 18 January, 2010
Isn't part of the growing attraction to TSP the ability to synchro multiple virtual decks? This is particularly where I see the divide within the club environment coming in regards to the controllers that will operate with these different software systems. This divide seems totally avoidable if the controllers would function with either software (or SL receives ITCH's synhro abilities - but then why have the two programs in the first place?)
Kenny Q 7:56 PM - 18 January, 2010
I would like to see a video plug in for itch.
Then, it would be just like SSL.

What are the major difference between the software besides it's looks?
Kenny Q 8:02 PM - 18 January, 2010
I found the answer to my question about the difference here.
www.numark.com
nik39 12:25 AM - 20 January, 2010
IT'd be very cool if you could use the V7's with SSL.
DjWoody 12:43 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
IT'd be very cool if you could use the V7's with SSL.


That would be a dream come true.
Kenny Q 1:02 AM - 20 January, 2010
A 12" V7 for SSL would be great.
DJBIGWIZ 1:23 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
the new Rane 68 doesn't have ITCH controls,


Quote:
The dilemma I think I see coming is more from a controller standpoint because SL and ITCH software is both free.


You do realize that RANE has nothing to do with ITCH right?

Itch controllers are not meant to be generic controllers for ANY system... they are each designed to work with ITCH only.

(taken from the Products/Itch page)
Serato ITCH is an integrated software and hardware system

Serato has agreements with respected manufacturers to deliver complete ITCH systems


So if you are looking for ITCH controller to work with other systems, that's not what they are made for... and if you are looking for to RANE for answers on why Vestax, Denon, NuMark or any other ITCH manufacture is doing what they are doing, I think you are looking in the wrong place.
nik39 2:06 AM - 20 January, 2010
Hey Wiz,

I am not asking to be able to use the V7 without Rane hardware. I am just asking to be able to use the V7 as a native controller device for Scratch Live. That does not have anything to do with Itch. Just like the natively supported devices from Pioneer for example. You would still need Rane hardware.
DJBIGWIZ 2:18 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Hey Wiz,

I am not asking to be able to use the V7 without Rane hardware. I am just asking to be able to use the V7 as a native controller device for Scratch Live. That does not have anything to do with Itch. Just like the natively supported devices from Pioneer for example. You would still need Rane hardware.

I feel you (no homo)
But the V7 was made to work with ITCH.
Scratch Live is NOT Itch... they are 2 seperate programs made by Serato.

By ITCH being INTEGRATED hardware/software product means they work hand in hand... if the v7 worked with Scratch Live or any other DVS system, it would not be the definition of what ITCH is.
The Pioneer devices are not ITCH products.
I'm not saying I dissagree with your stance, I'm just making sure cats understand that ITCH has nothing to do with RANE and the purpose of ITCH is not to be a generic controller... a lot of people don't realize that... they think Scratch Live and ITCH are basically the same and call RANE for support on a Vestax ITCH product or a Denon product etc...
nik39 2:24 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
By ITCH being INTEGRATED hardware/software product means they work hand in hand... if the v7 worked with Scratch Live or any other DVS system, it would not be the definition of what ITCH is.

Why would it not be the definition of what Itch is? Itch is still a tightly integrated solution where the Itch software from Serato works with hardware from different vendors.

Now if you are referring to the point of exclusitivity (does that word exist? ;) ) - there is no such exclusitivity.

VCI-300 works also with Traktor
NS7 works almost with Traktor, NI (and Numark?) is working on it

Quote:
I'm just making sure cats understand that ITCH has nothing to do with RANE and the purpose of ITCH is not to be a generic controller... a lot of people don't realize that... they think Scratch Live and ITCH are basically the same and call RANE for support on a Vestax ITCH product or a Denon product etc...

True, true.
Serato, Support
ChrisD 2:44 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
they think Scratch Live and ITCH are basically the same and call RANE for support on a Vestax ITCH product or a Denon product etc...

That's because people incorrectly think that Scratch Live is developed by Rane rather than Serato. Now that there's a second Serato DJ software product available some people assume that that too is a Rane product, which is double wrong.
DJBIGWIZ 2:45 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Why would it not be the definition of what Itch is? Itch is still a tightly integrated solution where the Itch software from Serato works with hardware from different vendors.

I guess I'm saying the integration is meant to be the ITCH controller with ITCH software... not really the ITCH controller tightly integrating with other software. If it works then cool but the hardware was made to go hand in hand with ITCH software.
and yes, exclusitivity is a real word hahaha.

Are you gonna make it to Musik Messe?
DJBIGWIZ 2:49 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:

That's because people incorrectly think that Scratch Live is developed by Rane rather than Serato. Now that there's a second Serato DJ software product available some people assume that that too is a Rane product, which is double wrong.

Right
nik39 2:51 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Are you gonna make it to Musik Messe?

I hope so. Will you be there as well?
Kenny Q 2:53 AM - 20 January, 2010
I seen someone use the NS7 with Virtual DJ.

I wouldn't have a problem using the V7 with the TTM57, Itch software and an Itch video plug in.

The Itch software seems similar to SSL.
DJBIGWIZ 3:39 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Are you gonna make it to Musik Messe?

I hope so. Will you be there as well?
Yes, I think I may make it out.
nik39 4:07 AM - 20 January, 2010
Nice! Looking forward to meet you finally :)
DJBIGWIZ 5:06 AM - 20 January, 2010
word
DJMaytag 5:08 AM - 20 January, 2010
I see it like showing up to a gig with a gig bag of vinyl, and a CD case full of discs with the exact same music in your gig bag. If the club only has CD decks, use CD's. If the club only has turntables, use your vinyl. Extreme example, but I think it's smart to know how to use both, because you never know what the setup is going to be when you show up somewhere.

That said, i see a couple different markets:
DJ's that show up somewhere and know what gear is available (ie resident DJ's)
DJ's that are almost always having to haul their gear to their gigs

for places where I'm the resident DJ and ONLY have to bring my music in, Scratch Live is the most logic choice for me. for places where I have to bring my shit, hauling an NS7 or similar type of controller and using ITCH makes it much easier to manage than dragging out two turntables and my mixer.

the nice thing I see that Serato has done is maintain software compatibility between the two platforms, despite different manufacturers designing products for the two platforms. So long as there is software/crate compatibility between the two, I really don't see there being much of a real divide happening.

just my two cents...
DJMaytag 5:09 AM - 20 January, 2010
just to clarify one thing I said, like CD vs vinyl, I think it's smart to know who to use BOTH Scratch Live and ITCH.
Dj Ace 5:56 AM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
I see it like showing up to a gig with a gig bag of vinyl, and a CD case full of discs with the exact same music in your gig bag. If the club only has CD decks, use CD's. If the club only has turntables, use your vinyl. Extreme example, but I think it's smart to know how to use both, because you never know what the setup is going to be when you show up somewhere.

That said, i see a couple different markets:
DJ's that show up somewhere and know what gear is available (ie resident DJ's)
DJ's that are almost always having to haul their gear to their gigs

for places where I'm the resident DJ and ONLY have to bring my music in, Scratch Live is the most logic choice for me. for places where I have to bring my shit, hauling an NS7 or similar type of controller and using ITCH makes it much easier to manage than dragging out two turntables and my mixer.

the nice thing I see that Serato has done is maintain software compatibility between the two platforms, despite different manufacturers designing products for the two platforms. So long as there is software/crate compatibility between the two, I really don't see there being much of a real divide happening.

just my two cents...


+1 on this well well said
Black Science 3:34 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
the new Rane 68 doesn't have ITCH controls,

Quote:
The dilemma I think I see coming is more from a controller standpoint because SL and ITCH software is both free.


You do realize that RANE has nothing to do with ITCH right?

Itch controllers are not meant to be generic controllers for ANY system... they are each designed to work with ITCH only.

(taken from the Products/Itch page)
Serato ITCH is an integrated software and hardware system

Serato has agreements with respected manufacturers to deliver complete ITCH systems


So if you are looking for ITCH controller to work with other systems, that's not what they are made for... and if you are looking for to RANE for answers on why Vestax, Denon, NuMark or any other ITCH manufacture is doing what they are doing, I think you are looking in the wrong place.


Yes, of course I realize that. What I'm questioning however is Rane or any of the other manufacturers aren't making a universal controller - one that will control SL, ITCH and even TSP. This is where the divide I speak of I see coming. If/when the manufacturers decide to produce such a controller, then there will be smooth sailing harmony between multiple DJs on potentially multiple formats in the booth.
Black Science 3:35 PM - 20 January, 2010
^^^ insert "why" in second sentence.
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:37 PM - 20 January, 2010
i would rather have 1 controller that works GREAT on one system then have 1 controller that works half ass on several
Black Science 3:37 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Hey Wiz,

I am not asking to be able to use the V7 without Rane hardware. I am just asking to be able to use the V7 as a native controller device for Scratch Live. That does not have anything to do with Itch. Just like the natively supported devices from Pioneer for example. You would still need Rane hardware.


bingo.
Black Science 3:38 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
i would rather have 1 controller that works GREAT on one system then have 1 controller that works half ass on several


Agreed. That's why I'd like to see a V7 type device with a 10"-12" platter that natively controls SL.
Black Science 3:40 PM - 20 January, 2010
Although I still think a company like Rane could pull off a great device that works properly on all systems.
sixxx 3:44 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
i would rather have 1 controller that works GREAT on one system then have 1 controller that works half ass on several


Every once in a while (very rarely though), you say something that makes sense. lol
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:52 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
i would rather have 1 controller that works GREAT on one system then have 1 controller that works half ass on several


Every once in a while (very rarely though), you say something that makes sense. lol



low of averages i figure if i just keep saying EVERYTHING that comes into my head statistically i have to drop a jewel here and there....im waiting for that lottery chance that ill say something purley genious
Black Science 4:49 PM - 20 January, 2010
I think once 2.0 hits and someone produces a V7 type controller that will work with SL3, this system will pretty much be it for me here on out. and happier than a pig in shit. i2.photobucket.com
Black Science 4:50 PM - 20 January, 2010
^^^ unless of course Rane goes and puts the SL in the rotary Empath (Empath Rotary SL)
Dj Ace 5:24 PM - 20 January, 2010
im not sure but it looks (to me) like the 68 will have an option for rotary faders? the reason i say that is coz it looks like (in person) like the square panel surrounding the fader and line faders is removal but just a hunch
Black Science 6:03 PM - 20 January, 2010
Quote:
im not sure but it looks (to me) like the 68 will have an option for rotary faders? the reason i say that is coz it looks like (in person) like the square panel surrounding the fader and line faders is removal but just a hunch


I excitedly thought that might be the case too, but when I inquired about a rotory option I was told "no" :-(
RussOne 5:01 AM - 25 January, 2010
I definitely wouldn't mind a V7 that can be used with SSL. CDJ's are industry standard but, the fact that the platters don't spin like my 1200's, annoys the shite outta me to this day!
Mikecola 12:29 AM - 30 January, 2010
I am in the market of purchasing a sixty-eight. Will this work with 2 numark v7s?
MA3E 3:42 AM - 30 January, 2010
My big question is:

Why is there different software?

Itch and SSL are essentially the same thing now, so why not throw down the gauntlet and merge the software. SSL boxes or ITCH hardware = good to go. Possibly a future update possibly using a VCI or V7(s) as decks 3 and 4 on the one platform.

Mixing TTs/CDJs, and controllers. If its solid and works why not? I am sure you could make it one program and have the software recognize what "interface" you are using.

Other than the name and the colors and names now, it is essentially the same software.
Dj Ace 9:07 PM - 30 January, 2010
actually not the same SSL is setup for external mixing and itch does internal mixing totally different...

And disagree with you guys simply because itch was created for dedicated controllers, ns7, V7's etc...i think ssl should be reserved for use with external CD players/turntables...if they are so similar why not just use the one with the features you want to use?
Kenny Q 12:40 AM - 31 January, 2010
Itch doesn't have a video plug in yet.
Dj Ace 6:25 AM - 31 January, 2010
Then I would go with SSL
Dj Ace 6:25 AM - 31 January, 2010
Quote:
My big question is:

Why is there different software?

Itch and SSL are essentially the same thing now, so why not throw down the gauntlet and merge the software. SSL boxes or ITCH hardware = good to go. Possibly a future update possibly using a VCI or V7(s) as decks 3 and 4 on the one platform.

Mixing TTs/CDJs, and controllers. If its solid and works why not? I am sure you could make it one program and have the software recognize what "interface" you are using.
I was replying this post...I definitely know there are different
Other than the name and the colors and names now, it is essentially the same software.
davinci 5:19 AM - 1 February, 2010
i wouldnt worry about gettin rid of sl yet or gettin a dedicated controller. no offense to controller guys, but here in teh big clubs its all cdj's or tables with serato

unless your spinning at a tiny bar or lounge where your required to bring your own gear , its mostlly club gear.

and alot times they dont want you mucking around in there wires so you just use there gear.


even at smaller clubs, i have not seen controllers, just tables with serato mainly