at least you have free health care.

LOL, I was drinking some water & almost coughed it up on my laptop!

Coming from someone who lived in Canada for ten years (and will be moving back within the next year), the health care is far from 'free'... Canadians pay for it through MUCH higher taxes.

:-)

As for the original poster's issue, i've never heard of this for Canada... any independent links to verify this claim?

a lot of my favorite comedians r from Canada

The old spelling of Canada is Kanata.

Dats really F**ked up! But whose gonna catch ya, the MP3 Police? But its still messed up, feelin ur frustration choked.

I'm Canadian, and I've never heard of any laws like this. Usually our Copyright laws are more laxed, like how we're allowed to have backup copies of media, as long as you bought an original.

Anyone have any links about this law?

www.avla.ca

and this old thread scratchlive.net

where I posted this




Thanks Fada. AVLA sends people out to visit clubs and events. They ask to speak to the DJ while they spin and look through their music to see if they are using burned CDs or hard drives. So yeah maybe they are the MP3 police. If you look on their website they even encourage people and businesses to report a DJ who uses burned CD or hard drive.

www.avla.ca

But is it law? Can they "enforce" it? I want to know too.

Our copyright laws currently allow users to copy media for personal use so where do they draw the line with a DJ's music collection? But don't count on our copyright laws to even allow these freedoms for long since there's huge pressure from lobbyists to change our laws.

What AVLA does not seem to admit is that once a DJ purchases music (or "leases" it in their terms), whether the person copies it to a hard drive or CD doesn't mean a lost SALE for that music. Users can make backup copies for personal use so why can't a DJ transfer the content to a hard drive without penalty?

AVLA represents a bunch of the major labels. They claim that if you play one of their member's songs, you owe them money. They have their own 'investigators' that would check out claims of a person using the copyright protected material without proper authorization. Different labels have different 'copyright collectives' to represent them (AVLA, SOCAN, CMRRA, etc.)... here are some interesting links that people might want to check out for themselves:

creativecommons.ca

www.duncaninvestigations.com

www.wired.com

www.mnrr.ca

My personal take would be that unless you play mainstream top-40, hip hop, R&B, and the like (or you are a wedding DJ), you don't really need to worry about this. This has been around since 1999 and I have yet to hear of anyone having legal trouble with this situation.

Apparently AVLA and the labels they represent are forgetting that without dj's... no one can BREAK their RECORDS which directly reflect their RECORD SALES.

I dont buy my mp3's....
The reps send them to my Gmail. :)

"DJs may not download music from the internet for commercial purposes
The “Terms & Conditions” on legal download sites clearly state that the content is for personal, non-commercial purposes only."

this seems odd sites like beatport, djdownloads, traxitdown, xpressbeats, etc give you a full license to play the track for commercial purposes... i guess it more applys to commercial music vs house.

kinda curious what if you travel to do a gig in canada from the usa? which i will be doing next month. do they pursue you then?

In Toronto, there are tons of DJs who use SSL. I'm sure they all download to some extent, in addition to buying and ripping vinyl and subscribing to the promo services.

T dot!

I've actually heard of this b4. I even heard that they caught a guy and charged him $100k per burnt cd. I was also told that if you buy a CD from best buy, you're not allowed to play it in a club because the CD is marked "for personal use only". Seemed a little weird to me. Is the CD thing true??? I think I've done my part by supporting the artist and as long as i'm not making copies of the CD, I should be able to use it as I see fit.

Take this into account......If I bought an album and I played it loud in my car system, would that be crossing the personal/commercial line??? Everyone on the street can hear it so that's no longer personal use is it??? I'm basically advertising the album the same way I would be in a club setting so how do they distinguish a median if their is one???

There seems to be a lot of grey area as far as this ALVA thing goes...

Blame Canada (Eric Cartman ?)

Loads of "Urban Legend" type stuff in this thread!

I've been a dj in Canada for over 10 years and have never heard of any public performances being busted for copyright/license infringement. Its a grey area in the music industry ... basically look at just about every record you own and it will say somewhere on it "All Rights of the producer and manufacturer reserved. All public performance, hiring, rental, recording, blah blah strictly prohibited". So that means that you could technically get busted for publicly playing just about any record in your collection, more so for actual pressed vinyl or bought CDs.

Technically venues are supposed to pay royalties on music played in their establishments. Why is this a grey area? Because if you're a small dj NO ONE WILL EVER LOOK FOR YOU, and if you are a big dj you most likely get sent a lot of music or have permission to play songs or are on a record pool. It would then be your responsibility to inform the club what you are playing and they pay royalties on it.

on the AVLA site:
"Anyone who copies sound recordings or music videos and anyone who performs or broadcasts music videos needs a licence from AVLA or authorization from the owner or holder of the copyright. The unlicensed copying of sound recordings or music videos and/or the unlicensed exhibition of music videos is an infringement of copyright and may be subject to legal prosecution."
... take note that it says you may have authorization from the owner or holder of the copyright, meaning that anything you play sent to you by a label or producer or record pool or download site that has an agreement where it says you may perform their music is exempt. Also it says you "may" be subject to legal prosecution. You also may be subjsct to getting a ticket for jaywalking, but probably not because these companies have bigger fish to fry.

Also on AVLA:
"AVLA is the licensing agent of all the major record companies in Canada and many independent labels, artists and producers. AVLA ’s members own or control the copyright of over 95% of all musical audio recordings and music videos produced and/or distributed in Canada."
... if its not produced or distributed in Canada then this doesn't affect you. So if you bought something from beatport you are buying from the US, so you are subject to whatever licensing company deals with their product.

For me personally i could give a crap about most of this as i never really play top forty music and about 75% is sent to me directly from the producers/labels, but if it worries you you should contact the producers that you play or the labels that you play and tell them who you are and where you play and basically get their permission. Then you have nothing to worry about. Basically this is all in place to collect money for the big labels from the big broadcasters, tv shows, radio stations, movie producers and possibly top 40 clubs.

Now if you're in Canada and are worried about using mp3s from a Canadian download service, buy your music from 2thebeatdigital.com, they sell house, techno, breaks, hiphop, dnb; are supplied by established mp3 distributers and the labels themselves and is a service specifically for djs . Also I designed the site ;)

Yup! Again, I suggest people get informed. I'm only going by information on AVLA's website and Promo Only's Podds site. If that doesn't apply to DJ's spinning in the real world then I would love to learn more. I would also like to hear from people who sign up if they want to share their experiences.



I personally know at least one small DJ who has been visited by an AVLA agent during a gig, and asked to let the agent view his music collection on the spot. I won't speculate what has happened since then because I simply don't know. How "big" does a DJ have to be to get AVLA's attention? That takes us back to the "grey area" as you point out. But what difference should it make?

The fine print on music packaging is superceded if the venue pays their SOCAN license, but according to AVLA, none of this applies to copied media (CD-R or hard drive) so the agents take notes on your music collection (not what you are actually playing) if they pay you a visit.

I'm no expert on the matter and I don't claim to be. I just hope that DJ's can talk openly about their rights regarding playing music on any medium. If the music was paid for in a store or from a website, why does AVLA pretend there's a loss in revenue if the user simply transfers the content to CD or hard drive? AVLA is against copying media for public performance unless you sign up with them and pay then hundreds of dollars a year for the privelege of using copied music you paid for and acquired legally.

Should Serato DJ's be expected to weed the big hits off of their playlists because they're on a hard drive?

Thanks for the link to the music site, by the way!

I wonder how many of these AVLA 'agents' head to clubs to harass the dj... never to be seen again...

On another note it is to your discretion as to whether you want them to see your collection or not. since they have no legal authority to be able to look through your collection. but they won't tell you that. You can just say politely " Give me a card and i will give you a call"

That's exactly the kind of thing I've been trying to get a feel for. Thanks.

Just make sure to bring a couple vinyl's with you, so if you see some old men that stand out in the crowd coming towards the dj booth, close down your Lappy, throw on the vinyl and then you're set.

If these AVLA guys look anything like the smoking ban enforcers you'll be able to see them from a mile away.

Instead than trying to evade their bullshit, I'd rather see DJ's get informed, speak up, and get AVLA to wake up and smarten up their act. I would hope.

iam in the midst of starting up a djing company and am having this very problem now i do know from research that the AVLA guys will ask you briefly to check your set up and do a follow up afterwards then in turn give you 10 days to produce a license ranging from 500 roughly a year too 8000dollars its ludacris. i havent heard of anyone being check but for someone like me who is the new talent on the come up and live in a smaller area i have worries that the other djs that are license in the area will feel threatened and report me.

i just really see music as being music you pay for most but theres always differnt ways your going to acuire it in this day and age and like you said unless you getting music from teh artist label promoter or whatever thers gonna be a catch

Pretty fucked up since file sharing is legal in Canada

(It might have changed in the last few months because I remember reading about them trying to change this)

WAS IT ME??? jk

I GOT A VISIT IN JUNE - AND MY BOSS HANDED THE INFORMATION O OUR CLUB LAWYERS - the lawyers said it doesnt hold enough credibility and AVLA is actually jsut trying to get $, so they can act as a agent between (the DJ) and the record companies, shoudl they get busted...

kind of like getting private insurance for a car

This really sounds more like an attempt at extortion through intimidation than any legitimate concern about whether DJ's obtain music legally.

any record pools or monthly compilation pools anyone can suggest?

I got a visit in may last year as well and I had an external drive with all my music and records i got from my record pool. What are we suppose to do! i ripp most of my stuff from my records. theY expect me to show them a licence even though i have records that are legal to be used in clubs. These people do not make any sence. I like to keep back ups of my stuff just in case cause i run alot of beta versions on my set and keep records there as well. So if i am paying for a record pool which is legal why do i have to pay for this stupid licence. Aren't we allowed to back our stuff up or is that iilegal as well.

You know what to do when somethin goes wrong.....just blame it on Bush, like everyone else.

I was about to ask Spinz about this since him and I are playing a Rave in Toronto in March but eh, No biggie... Gonan roll up to T-Dot with mad music and aint shit the feds cna do about it!!

if your downloading from podds.ca there is a way to get the songs to play in serato, however it is a pain to do, it requires you to burn the songs to disc and then rip them back on to the pc. it is a pain but until P.O. gets on board or rane/serato, it's the best thing that works that i have found.

Poland is The same you need a License for DJ'S $800 per year to make a copy of legal MP3 CD OR VINAL you can only use originals but if transfer in to sorato then you need a license cops checking a night clubs and arrest dj's for cd'r ect with out dj licence 3 years in prison if guilt that is a good way to take weekend DJ's off the market and leave the space for professionals, at firs I was mad but now I do understand Is that make sense" ?

personally, I don't think this is such a bad thing - it will actually bring the art back to people who are actually *serious* about and all the undercutters, fly-by-night, djs-on-a-whim types will no longer be able to play out (and undercut) the true professionals.

What bedroom DJ would be eager to play for $50 and a drink tab if they knew they had to fork out several hundred bucks a year in order to actually play out?

I think it's a great idea, we need a DJ reform to get rid of all blood suckers and leechers. I'm a part time DJ and I wouldn't mind paying for a license to spin out in public. I advocate for locking these fools up. But to be honest I think Police and law makers have enuff on there hands so I'm not sure how much they would enforce it

dj_soo that's a really short sighted perspective as you've still cut out those who have low income. You might find that its those with more disposable income who aren't that serious about the craft who are more willing to jump right in, plop down $600 for an SL Box, buy some tops, a mixer, and some cdjs or old used tt's from guitar center than those who take the craft seriously, bust their asses to buy every single bit of equipment they can get, might be the best DJ since Jazzy Jeff himself, and yet can't play a single club because they can't afford the license; and trust me, no license is going to keep a DJ willing to work for $50 from playing in a dive bar nor is it going to keep the bar manager/owner from hiring them. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to put money down that most of them don't even know about licensing. While we're on that note, who's going to enforce it?

I sincerely enjoy this as I completely agree, for two reasons:
1: I myself have low income, and can barely afford the equipment itself let alone AVLA
2: I too have yet to hear of this from ANYONE I have spoken to about DJing. From the boys at Kingston Soundworks, to the good people at "The Spot" nightclub even to my old demo teacher, not one has ever made mention nor has a clue about this licensing law.

That being said, supposedly there are people sent to "enforce" this law by barging in to your music library, after of course speaking with the club manager to verify your license, which he most likely will not have even heard of, and then proceed to take legal actions against both you, for playing copyrighted material illegally in public, and the club manager, for hiring an unregistered, unlicensed DJ.

Like I said in another post:



Just because no one knows about it doesn't mean it's not there. It's rarely enforced, and nightclubs djs aren't the target. But i you have legal music, the fees are built in and you're covered.

That's good to know, and I was aware of the SOCAN fees as well. In actuality I really don't mind paying for a DJ license through AVLA. What bothers me is that MP3 based purchases aren't considered "approved" sources. In other words, even though I legally bought my music from iTunes, for example, AVLA legally prevents me from using this music as it is not from an approved source, and I'm forced to re-purchase the same music from an approved source, which only consist of physical CD stores. However, as mentioned by someone above, DJ store sites such as beatport or junodownload grant full commercial rights, so maybe I'll just have to start getting my music from there. Granted its not in AVLA's list of approved sites, (which consists of the websites for the CD stores,) but if I'm given full commercial rights upon purchase, is there really anything they can do about it?

I really wouldn't worry about the license if you're a one-man operation (nm). I think it was really designed for mobile dj companies that send out multiple djs with copies of the same hard drive. The license allows you to make a copy.

Interestingly (and laughably), if you read carefully, you aren't even allowed to copy physical CDs to a hard drive without a license. This even aplies to Promo Only or ERG cds.

I'd say your iTunes tracks are just fine. There has got to be some "fair use" grey areas in there somewhere. Technically you need an additional licence to make a back up copy of your drive, which is also ridiculous. I don't think these regulations have been updated for a few years, they seem to apply to situations where the majority of someone's collection is CD, but they decide to make digital copies.

I'm not certain what itunes.ca has arranged with the AVLA. I do know that ZipDJ (music), and Xtendamix (video) have the AVLA fees built in to their membership rates. Beatport is international, so again, not sure how that really works, even they do grant "full commercial rights" (whatever that means)

Bottom line: don't bother with the licence unless you consistently work banquet halls, own a large mobile company, and advertise that your djs all carry identical drives. It's not really enforced. Club djs are not the target.

I really wouldn't worry about the license if you're a one-man operation (nm). I think it was really designed for mobile dj companies that send out multiple djs with copies of the same hard drive. The license allows you to make a copy.

Interestingly (and laughably), if you read carefully, you aren't even allowed to copy physical CDs to a hard drive without a license. This even aplies to Promo Only or ERG cds.

I'd say your iTunes tracks are just fine. There has got to be some "fair use" grey areas in there somewhere. Technically you need an additional licence to make a back up copy of your drive, which is also ridiculous. I don't think these regulations have been updated for a few years, they seem to apply to situations where the majority of someone's collection is CD, but they decide to make digital copies.

I'm not certain what itunes.ca has arranged with the AVLA. I do know that ZipDJ (music), and Xtendamix (video) have the AVLA fees built in to their membership rates. Beatport is international, so again, not sure how that really works, even they do grant "full commercial rights" (whatever that means)

Bottom line: don't bother with the licence unless you consistently work banquet halls, own a large mobile company, and advertise that your djs all carry identical drives. It's not really enforced. Club djs are not the target.

That was pretty much my ideology behind it too. If the club is paying SOCAN, both for venue license and royalties, then I don't see the need for a license either. If the club manager mentions it when I speak to him today, I can have it done in no time. If not, I'm not going to bother with it.

Also, "full commercial rights" is basically what AVLA is granting you, by allowing you to perform the music in public for "commercial" reasons (for money, as a DJ.)

I thank you for the reassuring information.

There should be a quote in that one ^ I deleted mine for the sake of a shorter post. My bad.

Give Westy my best!

No problem, good luck.

Oh hey, you know him! Small world...lol

I haven't read this whole thread but I don't know if this information has come to light.

Music purchased though a source that is AVAL licensed and you are at a club that has a SOCAN license you are good to go. To the best of my understanding and I have read up a lot on this in the past. There is lots of grey area when it comes to back up copy's so don't worry about it to much. just dont make copy's of your HD and give it to people.

Also I know for a fact: AVAL representatives must disclose who they are before they begin questioning you. If they try to get information from you before they inform you who they are then all of the info in not useable by them to charge you. An AVAL rep showed up a a wedding that a long time DJ (20 years) was playing at. This DJ was the owner a my area's largest mobile company at the time. the AVAL tried to charge him for having backup copies and not originals on hand plus copies on his HD. But the AVAL agent only revealed him self as such when he informed the DJ he was being charged and told him to shut the wedding down. Apparently the AVAL guy was then forcibly removed. And in court the case was tossed out because the AVAL didn't inform the DJ who he was before questioning.

Also all club owners should know they are not to give an AVAL agent any information on yor behalf.

Oh also I work for a large Festival. I know that the Festival (Center Of Gravity) purchases a SOCAN Licence and to there understanding no other Licence is required and no DJ has any need for any other sort of Licence.

Unfortunately, simply bc this is their understanding does not make it right. If you read the terms and conditions of use of the music you purchase it will state it is ok for it to be used for commercial purposes or not, but that is not all you need to check when you purchase a download. You also need to make sure it can be used in your country. Same goes with memberships for streaming. If you are DJing in Canada, have your AVLA membership(Connect). If you are doing this for a business pay your dues. People are trusting you when they hire you for their events, to have integrity, to pay your memberships, and your dues. You are making money off other people's music, and whether you agree with it or not, they are to be compensated for the use of their music. If you can't afford to pay your memberships then you can't be doing very well at your job as a DJ. It's simple, you need a license to drive, you get one and follow the rules. If you drive without a license,sure you may get by, but if you get caught, bc you wanted to save money, or didn't agree with the need to have a license, it's irrelevant, you will be fined! The people who are good at their job, and want to provide the best for their customers, will follow with regulations. Please keep in mind, bc you can download off a site for commercial use, does not mean that music is licensed for use commercially worldwide, unless it specifically states so. Due diligence is part of everyone's responsibility.

Way to dig up an old thread thats not really relevant anymore.

Really? Bc you decide it's not relevant? There are still people today who don't get it! Licensed DJS everyday get undercut by non-licensed wannabes who have zero understanding. When and if that ever stops then I can see this discussion as irrelevant.

www.xtendamix.com = all legal downloadable music recognized by the AVLA.

Pretty much the same laws in Australia but you NEED a license to be legit here, unless playing at a venue that has a license themselves. Call it an 'umbrella license' that covers all royalties for stuff you play.

I've never heard of underground DJs buying this to play a squat party etc for instance.

The worst/most stupid part of dinosaur-aged music laws in Australia is that DJs CANNOT legally upload ANY mix/set recording. Unless either a) entirely your own music and not published /owned by a label yet; or b) have LICENSE TO PLAY EVERY SINGLE TRACK - from every single publisher involved in the tracks in your mix. Which is practically impossible. However they won't go after you, even if you are giving away CDs at clubs for instance, unless you are trying to sell the mix/CD.

www.artslaw.com.au

Oh, and we can't download the track to a desktop and then copy to an external or laptop internal drive to DJ with, apparently we're supposed to download direct to an external to use on both devices, not allowed to make a single backup/copy. Which is funny considering you get the files from Juno or Bandcamp usually in a rar or zip file which you need to extract to get to the files, thereby having a backup automatically unless you delete it (which is a stupid move considering the archive may have error checking that might work better than a flac file-and definitely better than a corrupted wav file which has no error checking).

Could be a while before someone cool enough to know what needs to be changed gets into office in our countries.

Another thing I forgot to mention that many people may not be aware of is the rights of 'dubplates' - when a producer sends you an unreleased piece of music, it can retroactively being 'illegal' to play, when a label purchases and sell (and then a publisher licenses and there is distro) then any previous ownership of the tune is handed to the label. So you aren't meant to play dubplates once the track is actually released. I'm not sure if that applies if the track is vastly different as a dubplate version but it's another thing to consider.

However I agree with the above I've never seen copyright police at a venue in my country. Here you would basically say 'I was under the impression the venue had an APRA license!' - it would be rare a venue didn't (as long as a commercial property) as you pretty much need it here to have a business and have the radio on.

Is this something touring people should worry about in Poland? A reason to play real CDs/vinyl on tours