Serato Failed Half Way Thru GiG!!!!! HELP!!

Viper72020 11:40 PM - 12 September, 2006

Hey im hoping someone out there will have some answers:

This past weekend i had back to back gigs on Fri and Sat. I have been prepering for these two gigs for the last three weeks because they were gonna be the first time i used serato at a gig. so after weeks of playing around with my new ttm57 i get to the friday gig and set everything up and everything is working fine the serato is working like a dream. but then more and more people started showing up and i started turning up the volume. then at one point i see a bunch of dust built up on the needles so i cleaned them off a kept playing. suddendly the serato started doing this thing where it would play in a choppy, slow, underwater type of way. its was sounding almost like a cd skipping. so i cleaned the needles and the records but nothing. then i figured it might be the background noise so while one record played i would hit the estimate on the other deck and it would jump all the way to the right. same for the other deck. all my connections were perfect because when i had to switch to my records it worked perfect. i tried different sides of the control records but same thing.

so for the saturday gig i set up my equipment again this time in a high school gym and the first track i tried worked perfect but then when i would play another track with more bass it would start failing again. also again when i would hit the estimate button it would go all the way to the right.

what is making this happen??
could too much bass throw off the signal? if so how do you fix it since serato is capable of being used at clubs?

I am using two TTX's with the line switch out and a Rane TTM57 along with a Macbook Pro

I would really appreciate some help
Thank you

eric_cloutier 12:15 AM - 13 September, 2006

too much bass could cause the needle to skip slightly and screw the signal up, just like any other record and needle.

and how to you fix that to make it work well in clubs? isolate the tables and the computer. duh.

Viper72020 12:29 AM - 13 September, 2006

well if that was the case then my regular records would be skipping as well wouldnt they? but they werent. i need a better answer

eric_cloutier 12:41 AM - 13 September, 2006

well, what kind of needles are you using? what version are you running on the ttm?

as for the skipping, overgain from the mixer will cause almost any needle to skip. turning the gain up on the channel and on the master of the mixer is going to cause problems no matter what. what kind of weight are you running on your needles, as well as what kind of needles are they? are they spherical or elliptical?

also, hitting estimate while music is playing and the record is spinning is just going to fuck it up royally. its going to jump to the right no matter what. estimate needs to be done when the record is stopped and next to no music is playing. its there to check for ground hums and shitty tables, not fix bad connections or a rumble in the decks.

dj KarrsiN 7:54 AM - 13 September, 2006

I had this problem before as well. Check your needles, make sure that they're not damaged. I also suggest checking the weight on your tone arm. It turns out that my needles were old and damaged, therefore I had to buy new needles. I haven't had the same problem since.

Try these steps to trouble shoot your problem.

01. Calabirate your setup
02. Check your ground cables
03. Check your needles for any damage (keep them dust free)
04. Clean your control records when neccessary.
05. Try to not keep your sub woofers away from your tables.
06. When setting up, try to keep all rca/xlr, power cables, ect organized and tidy.

I know it's a pain but it will become routine after a while.

SpinThis! 4:02 PM - 13 September, 2006

Always check the scopes on the setup screen—once you know how to read them, they reveal a lot of information on what's happening and what's not. Always watch the tracking indicator. If the bar dips in a lot of red, your needle might be damaged or it might be time to replace the needles or the records.

Quote:

suddendly the serato started doing this thing where it would play in a choppy, slow, underwater type of way.

As you ruled out dust (the most common symptom) this can be a number of issues. If your threshold is set too liberal, meaning SSL is more sensitive to small movements and letting more "sound" (background noise) in, this sound can happen. Also check the cartridge/needle. If you use an open type cart (with the wires exposed, such as a 44-7) and those connectors become loose or one channel drops in and out you'll get the underwater sound.

Viper72020 8:32 PM - 13 September, 2006

Quote:

well, what kind of needles are you using? what version are you running on the ttm?

as for the skipping, overgain from the mixer will cause almost any needle to skip. turning the gain up on the channel and on the master of the mixer is going to cause problems no matter what. what kind of weight are you running on your needles, as well as what kind of needles are they? are they spherical or elliptical?

also, hitting estimate while music is playing and the record is spinning is just going to fuck it up royally. its going to jump to the right no matter what. estimate needs to be done when the record is stopped and next to no music is playing. its there to check for ground hums and shitty tables, not fix bad connections or a rumble in the decks.

Im using the Ortofon Pro club S headshell mounted needles with like a standard 4gms but i even took some weight off and nothing, and i dont think skipping was a problem since my regular records played just fine. its a bad signal but i dont know why

also when i would hit the estimate it would be one table at a time. ( i would play a track on one side and do the estimate on the other with the record stopped). i thought you should do your estimate with the music playing at the level it would be playing all night?

i really appreciate all your guy's help

Viper72020 8:36 PM - 13 September, 2006

Quote:

I had this problem before as well. Check your needles, make sure that they're not damaged. I also suggest checking the weight on your tone arm. It turns out that my needles were old and damaged, therefore I had to buy new needles. I haven't had the same problem since.

Try these steps to trouble shoot your problem.

01. Calabirate your setup
02. Check your ground cables
03. Check your needles for any damage (keep them dust free)
04. Clean your control records when neccessary.
05. Try to not keep your sub woofers away from your tables.
06. When setting up, try to keep all rca/xlr, power cables, ect organized and tidy.

I know it's a pain but it will become routine after a while.

how do you know if your needles are bad? i just bought mine like 6 months ago, and i try to take care of them the best i can, and it just seems to soon to replace? also as far as the bass goes, what do you recommend for an enviroment such as a club where the bass is hitting all over? and for my connections, they were all hooked up the right way and all go through the circular cut out of my coffin, and work great in my room and even at first before the crowd showed up, but when the volume goes up, there goes my signal.

Viper72020 9:25 PM - 13 September, 2006

Quote:

Always check the scopes on the setup screen—once you know how to read them, they reveal a lot of information on what's happening and what's not. Always watch the tracking indicator. If the bar dips in a lot of red, your needle might be damaged or it might be time to replace the needles or the records.

Quote:

suddendly the serato started doing this thing where it would play in a choppy, slow, underwater type of way.

As you ruled out dust (the most common symptom) this can be a number of issues. If your threshold is set too liberal, meaning SSL is more sensitive to small movements and letting more "sound" (background noise) in, this sound can happen. Also check the cartridge/needle. If you use an open type cart (with the wires exposed, such as a 44-7) and those connectors become loose or one channel drops in and out you'll get the underwater sound.

ill try checking my needles but like i said in my room they work perfect and even at the begining of the party but with the volume up is when the tracking problems begin. it was showing a lot of red because of the bad tracking but on top of that the bar that shows the rotation of the record was showing that it was moving really slow and the sound waves were moving in slow motion as well but the record on the turntable was spinning at normal speed. so what can it be??

Zach S 9:44 PM - 13 September, 2006

6 months for ortofon needle tips is quite a long time.
We suggest using M447. They have a much louder output, they track better, and they last longer.
It definitely sounds like your needles are the culprit.
As for calibrating, you are right. Calibrate when the system is on and at the volume you will be playing at all night.
Check your tracking percentage aswell.
Often times, especially in a sweaty club, the records get a bit moist and pick up a lot of crap.
Also, record cleaner such as groove glide can really screw up your records.
If you do use it, use it sparingly and only when your records are really dirty.
Otherwise only use a velvet pad or something similer.
Hope that helps:)

eric_cloutier 10:06 PM - 13 September, 2006

Quote:

As for calibrating, you are right. Calibrate when the system is on and at the volume you will be playing at all night.

i've never not seen the it jam all the way to the right when someone does it. every single time i've done it, or we've done it with others, it just flies to the right and stays there.

Zach S 10:09 PM - 13 September, 2006

Eric,

That is typical when your in a club environment.
Its perfectly ok.

Viper72020 11:26 PM - 13 September, 2006

Quote:

6 months for ortofon needle tips is quite a long time.
We suggest using M447. They have a much louder output, they track better, and they last longer.
It definitely sounds like your needles are the culprit.
As for calibrating, you are right. Calibrate when the system is on and at the volume you will be playing at all night.
Check your tracking percentage aswell.
Often times, especially in a sweaty club, the records get a bit moist and pick up a lot of crap.
Also, record cleaner such as groove glide can really screw up your records.
If you do use it, use it sparingly and only when your records are really dirty.
Otherwise only use a velvet pad or something similer.
Hope that helps:)

why would it be that it works perfect in my room or with the volume a little lower? could it still be the needles?

Zach S 11:44 PM - 13 September, 2006

Volume would definately factor into the issue.
The problem is the control signal is picking up interference.
You may need to change the direction of the speakers in the club.
Do you have bass bins underneath the setup or in close proximity?
Regardless I would get new tips atleast.
If your still having issues after calibration and checking the grounds the solution would be in changing the speaker setup.
What kind of mixer is in the club?

Viper72020 12:33 AM - 14 September, 2006

well actually i havent used it in a club, it was at a high school dance i did and it was inside the gym so i put my speakers as far away as i could from me (like 20 ft) and the gym would just make it the bass louder in there so i would have to turn down the bass, but the speakers were in front and away from me (diagonal to the stage). will there be updates in the future to upgrade the signal strength?

Zach S 4:55 PM - 14 September, 2006

I'm not sure about an upgrade and I'm still not convinced the program is at fault here seeing as how no one else is having this issue.

Just so we're clear, on your turntables you have the 'phono/line' switched to 'phono'?

Have you tried using a different setup to see if you get the same result? i.e. needles, turntables, mixer, computer?

Viper72020 5:10 PM - 14 September, 2006

i have the turntable set on line, should it be on phono? i have not tried using a different set up. i will try it on a different setup though. should my mixer be set on phono?

Zach S 5:12 PM - 14 September, 2006

Yes.. set them to 'phono'.
The mixer should be set to 'line'.
The 'audio input' in the setup screen should be set to 'phono'.

thecheapestguy 6:16 PM - 14 September, 2006

I'm having a very similar issue. However just one turntable isn't working. The right turntable gives that underwater slowmotion sound as well. I've used different needles, control records (as well as regular records), and i've played with different settings. My other table works great but the other one just wont work. I tried starting and reconnecting all cables including the ground. Also the scope for my right table is flatlined and the the indicator bar is red.

Zach S 11:44 PM - 14 September, 2006

thecheapestguy,

It sounds like the grounding cable in that turntable is the issue.
If you've narrowed down the problem to that specific table than you should get it serviced.

In the future please post your issues in a seperate post so we can better help you and keep the topic at hand organized and on track. Thanks:)

Viper72020 11:56 PM - 14 September, 2006

Is it a problem that the TTX's dont come with grounding cables?

Zach S 5:27 PM - 15 September, 2006

I believe the grounding cable is bundled with the rca cables.

nobspangle 1:43 PM - 16 September, 2006

Quote:

Is it a problem that the TTX's dont come with grounding cables?

TTX has an internal ground so they don't need a ground lead.

Other users with TTX's have always reported poor results when they set the output to line level. Set it to phono should help you a lot.

One way to tell a damaged needle is to look at the scopes in SSL. You should see nice round circles. If you have straight edges or dents in your circle that is usually caused by damaged needles.

Argonic 2:03 PM - 24 September, 2006

Hi to everyone, my first message on the forum:-)

I was planning to buy ssl but when I read all the problems that you can encounter, I think i'm gonna pass for it.

1. You can not always arrive before the gig begins (calibrate), that's impossible!!!!!!!

2. The dj before you, I don't think he will have the patience to wait untill you calibrate the stuff and plug everything in. Kind of disturbing his set I think. (or how long does it take to do this?)

3. My experience is that when you ask for a change to the organizer (f.e.: male phono cable to female phono cable so you can plug it in without touching the mixer...), 9 out of 10 times it's not done because most of them don't know about technical stuff, believe me!!!!

4. That's a lot of money that you are dragging with you (ssl + laptop). Depends where that you have to play, better take an insurance for the stuff. The world is not so save anymore as 15 years ago:-)

5. "You may need to change the direction of the speakers in the club." ?????????? How the hell are you going to do this? Every soundsystem is different and almost everytime, you can't change a thing.

It's a great tool in my opinion but when you play records, you just put your first record on and the show begins.

Convince me that i'm wrong and should go for ssl instead of cdjs:-)

Thanx.

Argonic

nik39 2:41 PM - 24 September, 2006

Quote:

1. You can not always arrive before the gig begins (calibrate), that's impossible!!!!!!!

Calibration takes like less than 10 seconds.

Quote:

2. The dj before you, I don't think he will have the patience to wait untill you calibrate the stuff and plug everything in. Kind of disturbing his set I think. (or how long does it take to do this?)

You can hook up SSL without interrupting his set at all. Read here ssl-wiki.help.bootlegs.de <- click.

Quote:

3. My experience is that when you ask for a change to the organizer (f.e.: male phono cable to female phono cable so you can plug it in without touching the mixer...), 9 out of 10 times it's not done because most of them don't know about technical stuff, believe me!!!!

Well, thats an issue of your organizer.

Quote:

4. That's a lot of money that you are dragging with you (ssl + laptop). Depends where that you have to play, better take an insurance for the stuff. The world is not so save anymore as 15 years ago:-)

Believe me, with all the pain and headache you save (not carrying around vinyls anymore), the great customer support and all the added features SSL has been getting since I bought it, its a bargain.

Quote:

5. "You may need to change the direction of the speakers in the club." ?????????? How the hell are you going to do this? Every soundsystem is different and almost everytime, you can't change a thing.

Correct. But if the speakers are set up wrong you may experience sever feedback issues with normal vinyls as well. BTW. there are spots where I played where djs spinning with normal vinyl did have feedback issues where they had to turn down the bass, while I didnt have any problems using SSL. :)

Argonic 3:18 PM - 24 September, 2006

That's already a releave for me:-) My mind is already changing. Thanx for the comment.

greetz

Argonic

SpinThis! 10:59 PM - 24 September, 2006

Quote:

You can hook up SSL without interrupting his set at all.

Maybe so but look at it this way: if you were playing, would you want to some other schmoe fucking around during your set? I wouldn't. That shows poor ettiqutte imo.. It's a lot easier to get there ahead of time, even before the first DJ comes on, and setup shop.

Imagine cueing the next track and all of a sudden not hearing anything... He might be the most knowledgeable guy in the world but during a set is not the time and place to be doing what should be a setup issue.

If you play at the same club a lot, you might consider keeping an SL1 box there. Having more than 1 SL1 might be too "expensive" for some but if you have a lot of money invested in vinyl, not having to bring it and have someone steal it pays for itself pretty quick. (And if you pirate music you have no excuse because you're not paying for it anwyay.)

andy m 4:05 PM - 25 September, 2006

i have recently bought SSL and must admit i am a little concerned about setting up after someone elses set in case i have some set up issue and the whole thing goes tits up! and you can't always set up before the night, as i often play two or more gigs in a night. It's a great piece of kit and keeps the tecnics in use but it also has few down falls. I think when clubs and bars start incorporating a SSL box then the whole setup issue will not be a problem!

nik39 6:26 PM - 25 September, 2006

Quote:

Maybe so but look at it this way: if you were playing, would you want to some other schmoe fucking around during your set? I wouldn't. That shows poor ettiqutte imo.. It's a lot easier to get there ahead of time, even before the first DJ comes on, and setup shop.

Well, of course I wouldnt think its great, but as I am a SSL user myself, I know what kind of saver SSL is. Plus, if you practise a little it really takes in total less than 2 minutes, thats totally okay. Also you gotta keep in mind, there are some cases where setting up your SSL before the night starts is simply not possible. Its a hassle, yes, but if you know why some other DJ is putting you through, you would accept it. I would greatly appreciate it, that the other DJ how I am disturbin while setting up SSL when he was spinning before me, would not be a d!ck and would not front cause I am setting up SSL.

Zach S 8:13 PM - 25 September, 2006

How did this turn into a general discussion thread? lol

Argonic,

Welcome:)
If you intend on purchasing SSL and plan on posting in this forum please post your issues in a seperate post so we can better help you and keep the topic at hand organized and on track. Thanks!

DJ BIS 1:41 PM - 26 September, 2006

Quote:

Its a hassle, yes, but if you know why some other DJ is putting you through, you would accept it. I would greatly appreciate it, that the other DJ how I am disturbin while setting up SSL when he was spinning before me, would not be a d!ck and would not front cause I am setting up SSL.

I think I understand what you are saying here... The reality is that most DJ's specially when they are in "their domain" (their club, their booth, their set) will not be nice to you by any means. Lets be real, most of them won't even want you IN THE BOOTH! Let alone near their feet and under the booth looking for the RCA plugs with a flashlight, saying "excuse me, I'm sorry".

Getting to the venue way early is nice but not always possible as well. The solution is to get club owners to invest on the damn Serato rack, but that is not easy to do, and I don't really feel like shelling out $500 to give them that free convenience that they won't even thank you for. I don't care how often I play there.

The great thing is that a large group of Club DJ's are Serato based and its becoming THE standard, so we should begin to see it popping up here and there more often soon.

Viper, I was exactly where you are at right now a year ago, and at some point you decide to just give into it because of the convenience factor. Good luck man.

nik39 1:45 PM - 26 September, 2006

Quote:

I think I understand what you are saying here... The reality is that most DJ's specially when they are in "their domain" (their club, their booth, their set) will not be nice to you by any means. Lets be real, most of them won't even want you IN THE BOOTH! Let alone near their feet and under the booth looking for the RCA plugs with a flashlight, saying "excuse me, I'm sorry".

Yeah, def... I wouldnt like it either, but would have to swallow any objections, esp. as I am not the owner of the club, the owner decided to hire an additional DJ, who is also only doing his job. So my job is to, at least, not being a d!ck when he is doing his part of entertaining the crowd, which is our task as a DJ.

nik39 1:50 PM - 26 September, 2006

our=his and mine.

grrillatactics 2:43 PM - 26 September, 2006

I would have to say, in my experience, you can set up SSL during the final song of the DJ before you and still have time to spare to make sure everything is calibrated properly. After you set up the system a few times, it becomes second nature, and if you take the 3 minutes at home to label your cables (L1, L2, P1, P2 on the ends to connect to the mixer), it becomes even easier. Then, you really aren't stepping on their toes, as they aren't about to mix anything else in, and you have the cushion of the entire song to make sure you are good to go.

eric_cloutier 12:04 AM - 27 September, 2006

you could always do what other good dj's do...

and show up for soundcheck and setup.

DJ BIS 12:15 AM - 27 September, 2006

yeah, and you missed what we said previously. Be a good dj and re-read. ;)

DJ BIS 12:17 AM - 27 September, 2006

Quote:

I would have to say, in my experience, you can set up SSL during the final song of the DJ before you and still have time to spare to make sure everything is calibrated properly. After you set up the system a few times, it becomes second nature, and if you take the 3 minutes at home to label your cables (L1, L2, P1, P2 on the ends to connect to the mixer), it becomes even easier. Then, you really aren't stepping on their toes, as they aren't about to mix anything else in, and you have the cushion of the entire song to make sure you are good to go.

You must be spinning EDM cause 2 minutes is generally not enough time to connect, calibrate, make a quick test, etc.

Obviously the perfect scenario is to get there and do a sound check...

DJ BIS 12:19 AM - 27 September, 2006

PS: I am sure after many gigs you acquire the experience and get to know your system enough to be able to swap in and out very quickly, I am not saying its impossible, but it just doesn't leave enough time to troubleshoot problems with the turntable if there are any.

Sorry for the multi-post. lol

PS: do you guys carry longer RCA wires than what Serato provides?

SpinThis! 12:51 AM - 27 September, 2006

Quote:

you could always do what other good dj's do... and show up for soundcheck and setup.

amen brotha.

DJ BIS 11:04 AM - 27 September, 2006

What are you guys? Wedding jocks that get to the party 2 hours before hand? LOL

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