Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
AlphaTheta seeks clearance to acquire Serato (12th Oct)
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

AlphaTheta seeks clearance to acquire Serato (12th Oct)

DjSyndic8 5:08 PM - 8 November, 2023
From the Commerce Commission NZ website:
The Commerce Commission has received a clearance application from AlphaTheta Corporation (AlphaTheta), seeking clearance to acquire Serato Audio Research Limited (Serato).

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AlphaTheta seeks clearance to acquire Serato
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AlphaTheta and Serato are both active in DJ software. DJ software can be used for mixing music and organising music prior to mixing. Many DJs will use some form of DJ software in conjunction with some form of DJ hardware (for example, a controller or mixer).

AlphaTheta is a global company headquartered in Japan. Relevant to the application, AlphaTheta develops, manufactures and sells DJ hardware under the Pioneer DJ brand and DJ software under the rekordbox brand.

Serato is a DJ and music production software company founded in New Zealand. Serato’s DJ software includes Serato DJ Pro, Serato DJ Lite and Serato Remote. Serato’s DJ software is currently integrated with many brands of DJ hardware, including Pioneer DJ.

A public version of the clearance application will be available shortly on the Commission’s case register.





Background
We will give clearance to a proposed merger if we are satisfied that the merger is unlikely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition in a market.


another words it looks like the sale may be stalled cause it seems like Alpha Theta, would stand to monopolise the DJ industry?????

we've seen this in the past with Apple,

I've always had my suspicion that for one company to take control of the market they must buy all their competition out right, it’s the oldest trick in the book,

it’s bad for consumer because there is no competition and we will all pay higher prices, in this case, software.

here’s my take, is Serato selling because they don’t have the funds to take Serato DJ Pro to the next level like, improving the stability, new features, Making Serato Better???

or are they selling cause, they just don’t know how to go forward anymore? Serato has achieved everything and it’s time for the company to sell up and just retire???

either way I think Serato is worth more than US$70 million (NZ$113m),
I estimate Serato is worth around 3-400million NZ$

Serato, if Alpha Theta wants Serato they will pay that money for sure,
Alpha Theta will make millions with their control over the market if this deal goes through.

Serato just get more investors if you need the money.

just my thoughts.
Chino 2:25 AM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
Background
We will give clearance to a proposed merger if we are satisfied that the merger is unlikely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition in a market.


This alone should be enough to void the sell of Serato to Alpha Theta.

So the clearance has not even been approved yet?! Interesting!

IMHO, Serato's CEO just wants out. Maybe Serato's current leadership don't have the desire, vision or money to lead Serato into the future? I guess Serato needs to sell out to Alpha Theta while they still can?!
DjSyndic8 2:30 AM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
This alone should be enough to void the sell of Serato to Alpha Theta.

So the clearance has not even been approved yet?! Interesting!

IMHO, Serato's CEO just wants out. Maybe Serato's current leadership don't have the desire, vision or money to lead Serato into the future? I guess Serato needs to sell out to Alpha Theta while they still can?!

100%
DJ STU-C 11:18 AM - 9 November, 2023
The biggest part that makes me laugh is how many times you see posts across the internet starting with 'Now that Pioneer own Serato'.... to then have people calling you stupid when you attempt to explain they haven't yet.
Chino 1:24 PM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
The biggest part that makes me laugh is how many times you see posts across the internet starting with 'Now that Pioneer own Serato'.... to then have people calling you stupid when you attempt to explain they haven't yet.


Unfortunately, there are ALOT of popular 'YouTube influencers' pushing this narrative too! It's ok to like Pioneer DJ (Alpha Theta) but there is no need to push false info for them.
Chino 1:54 PM - 9 November, 2023
Power corrupts. I try to look at this acquistion subjectively but...

Ask yourself these questions based on Pioneer DJ's (Alpha Theta) previous corporate greedy actions.

1. Will they do right by Serato in the long term?

2. Will Alpha Theta charge less for products if/when they control 80%+ of the dj market share?

3. How likely is it for Alpha Theta to restrict access to Serato software to competitors if the aquisition goes through?

4. Will Pioneer DJ(Alpha Theta) gut Serato and/or merge Serato with Rekordbox in the near future?

5. What cost cutting measures will Alpha Theta take in order get back the 💰💰💰 spent on this aquisition?
Chino 2:06 PM - 9 November, 2023
Will this aquisition provide more competition, and more hardware/software choices at lower prices??

Will it ignite the fires of innovation OR will it crush it just to line the pockets of some already rich CEOs & their stock holders?!
DjSyndic8 2:20 PM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
The biggest part that makes me laugh is how many times you see posts across the internet starting with 'Now that Pioneer own Serato'.... to then have people calling you stupid when you attempt to explain they haven't yet.


lol 100%

Quote:
Will this aquisition provide more competition, and more hardware/software choices at lower prices??

Will it ignite the fires of innovation OR will it crush it just to line the pockets of some already rich CEOs & their stock holders?!


or they can sit on serato and do nothing while they focus and push Pioneer rekordbox,

I hope not IMO Serato is a better, I guess I'm just used to it lol
subculture 6:12 PM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
AlphaTheta seeks clearance to acquire Serato
Statement of Issues released for proposed Queenstown jet boats merger

What happens to Serato if the acquisition doesn't go through?
DJMark 6:17 PM - 9 November, 2023
It seems extremely rare for company acquisitions/consolidations to result in things being *better* for customers. I’m having a hard time thinking of a single example.
Ragman 8:43 PM - 9 November, 2023
Quote:
It seems extremely rare for company acquisitions/consolidations to result in things being *better* for customers. I’m having a hard time thinking of a single example.

Agreed!
DjSyndic8 4:01 AM - 10 November, 2023
Quote:
It seems extremely rare for company acquisitions/consolidations to result in things being *better* for customers. I’m having a hard time thinking of a single example.


the intentions for the sale by AlphaTheta, in my oppinion is not beneficial for the users of Serato, Thats the issue I have, and the fact that Serato is the competitor of Pioneer Rekordbox,
I feel serato will be bought and shelved, cause Rekordbox wont have any roadblocks to excell.
Serato Get yaself some investors, thats what you need if you care about your users.
Chino 3:30 PM - 10 November, 2023
Quote:
It seems extremely rare for company acquisitions/consolidations to result in things being *better* for customers. I’m having a hard time thinking of a single example.

THIS^!!
HellNegative1 3:54 PM - 10 November, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
It seems extremely rare for company acquisitions/consolidations to result in things being *better* for customers. I’m having a hard time thinking of a single example.


the intentions for the sale by AlphaTheta, in my oppinion is not beneficial for the users of Serato, Thats the issue I have, and the fact that Serato is the competitor of Pioneer Rekordbox,
I feel serato will be bought and shelved, cause Rekordbox wont have any roadblocks to excell.
Serato Get yaself some investors, thats what you need if you care about your users.


VC’s require a ROI that isn’t needed for a sale. After you are involved with a project for a couple decades, you find yourself wanting to move on to other projects and become more hands off. That’s not something you can do when you become a slave to the expectations of investors.
Chino 1:59 PM - 11 November, 2023
*I try to look at this aquisition OBJECTIVELY.

**A forum edit button would be amazing! 😂
@Serato
DjSyndic8 2:16 PM - 11 November, 2023
Quote:
*I try to look at this aquisition OBJECTIVELY.

**A forum edit button would be amazing! 😂
@Serato


we all agree on that Chino :)
DJ STU-C 7:27 PM - 28 November, 2023
Quote:
From the Commerce Commission NZ website:
The Commerce Commission has received a clearance application from AlphaTheta Corporation (AlphaTheta), seeking clearance to acquire Serato Audio Research Limited (Serato).

Cyclone impacts on Grid highlights importance of resilience planning
Customers refunded nearly $480k in settlement with ComCom
Commission grants clearance for Real NZ to acquire Spirit of Queenstown
Commission proposes to authorise the restrictions on the advertising and marketing of infant formula
AlphaTheta seeks clearance to acquire Serato
Statement of Issues released for proposed Queenstown jet boats merger
AlphaTheta and Serato are both active in DJ software. DJ software can be used for mixing music and organising music prior to mixing. Many DJs will use some form of DJ software in conjunction with some form of DJ hardware (for example, a controller or mixer).

AlphaTheta is a global company headquartered in Japan. Relevant to the application, AlphaTheta develops, manufactures and sells DJ hardware under the Pioneer DJ brand and DJ software under the rekordbox brand.

Serato is a DJ and music production software company founded in New Zealand. Serato’s DJ software includes Serato DJ Pro, Serato DJ Lite and Serato Remote. Serato’s DJ software is currently integrated with many brands of DJ hardware, including Pioneer DJ.

A public version of the clearance application will be available shortly on the Commission’s case register.





Background
We will give clearance to a proposed merger if we are satisfied that the merger is unlikely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition in a market.


another words it looks like the sale may be stalled cause it seems like Alpha Theta, would stand to monopolise the DJ industry?????

we've seen this in the past with Apple,

I've always had my suspicion that for one company to take control of the market they must buy all their competition out right, it’s the oldest trick in the book,

it’s bad for consumer because there is no competition and we will all pay higher prices, in this case, software.

here’s my take, is Serato selling because they don’t have the funds to take Serato DJ Pro to the next level like, improving the stability, new features, Making Serato Better???

or are they selling cause, they just don’t know how to go forward anymore? Serato has achieved everything and it’s time for the company to sell up and just retire???

either way I think Serato is worth more than US$70 million (NZ$113m),
I estimate Serato is worth around 3-400million NZ$

Serato, if Alpha Theta wants Serato they will pay that money for sure,
Alpha Theta will make millions with their control over the market if this deal goes through.

Serato just get more investors if you need the money.

just my thoughts.



Aaaaaaaaand whatdayaknow.... loads of people all over Pioneers recent Instagram post asking when Serato is getting updated. And also arguing til blue in the face that AlphaTheta own Serato when attempt to explain that the takeover hasn't gone through.
DJ STU-C 7:33 AM - 29 November, 2023
comcom.govt.nz

A lot of information here but this is the latest document covering this.
DjSyndic8 7:45 AM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
comcom.govt.nz

A lot of information here but this is the latest document covering this.


wow,
DJ STU-C 8:48 AM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
comcom.govt.nz

A lot of information here but this is the latest document covering this.


wow,


Pretty much my reaction man :) .... speaking from as neutral a position as i can, it looks like both sides are being a bit petty about it but there does definitely seem to be some underhand tactics employed by Alpha and Serato to push it through under the radar, with some flaky reasoning/excuses provided as to why it wouldnt impact the market negatively. But then InMusic also with some petty retorts.
Chino 3:13 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
comcom.govt.nz

A lot of information here but this is the latest document covering this.

VERY interesting read! It pretty much confirms what I already know...

InMusic is acting like a scorned lover(for good reason). Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) is being grimey, greedy, & shady as usual! I'm most disappointed with Serato!! I expected Serato to be better & act better- in the best interests of the DJ community but no. It seems like Serato will sell us out the first chance they get??!! 🙄😬
DJ STU-C 3:49 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
comcom.govt.nz

A lot of information here but this is the latest document covering this.

VERY interesting read! It pretty much confirms what I already know...

InMusic is acting like a scorned lover(for good reason). Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) is being grimey, greedy, & shady as usual! I'm most disappointed with Serato!! I expected Serato to be better & act better- in the best interests of the DJ community but no. It seems like Serato will sell us out the first chance they get??!! 🙄😬


Here's the link to the full case page, with all the documents... some of the 'anonymous' ones are quite funny to read, the fanboyism is strong.

comcom.govt.nz
SpinThis! 7:26 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
InMusic is acting like a scorned lover(for good reason). Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) is being grimey, greedy, & shady as usual! I'm most disappointed with Serato!! I expected Serato to be better & act better- in the best interests of the DJ community but no. It seems like Serato will sell us out the first chance they get??!! 🙄😬

Touch grass my man, touch grass.

These are companies, not people. The whole point of a for-profit company is—wait for it—to make as much money as possible! They aren't running charities. It's funny to see some of these comments. Scorned lover... greedy and shady. WTF are you on about?

I'm not saying go bury your head in the sand but like it or not, Pioneer appears greedy because they've earned the right to charge for what they offer, which allows them to do more marketing and hire more people. When setting prices for products do you think executives ask themselves "what would be a fair price for XXX?" No, they ask "How much do we think we can get for this product, in this market with our reputation?" This is how supply and demand works.

If you think you can do it better, do it.
DJ STU-C 7:41 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
InMusic is acting like a scorned lover(for good reason). Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) is being grimey, greedy, & shady as usual! I'm most disappointed with Serato!! I expected Serato to be better & act better- in the best interests of the DJ community but no. It seems like Serato will sell us out the first chance they get??!! 🙄😬

Touch grass my man, touch grass.

These are companies, not people. The whole point of a for-profit company is—wait for it—to make as much money as possible! They aren't running charities. It's funny to see some of these comments. Scorned lover... greedy and shady. WTF are you on about?

I'm not saying go bury your head in the sand but like it or not, Pioneer appears greedy because they've earned the right to charge for what they offer, which allows them to do more marketing and hire more people. When setting prices for products do you think executives ask themselves "what would be a fair price for XXX?" No, they ask "How much do we think we can get for this product, in this market with our reputation?" This is how supply and demand works.

If you think you can do it better, do it.


Have you followed the link to the website and read through the documents?
Chino 8:51 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
These are companies, not people. The whole point of a for-profit company is—wait for it—to make as much money as possible!

There is a thing called business ethics!! Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) attempted to push the sale thru without getting the proper clearance. They were trying to be slick about it & got called out. The ends do not justify the means. A company can still remain profitable without having to "make as much money as possible" by any means necessary!
Chino 9:01 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
These are companies, not people.

Legally in the U.S., these companies have as much rights if not more than the average citizen. Unfortunately, the companies don't have to follow the same accountability standards as a normal person does. So if you or I did half of the grimy things that companies do "to make as much money as possible" it would mean jail time. Companies just get a slap on the wrist, maybe pay a fine & its business as usual.
SpinThis! 11:23 PM - 29 November, 2023
Quote:
There is a thing called business ethics!!

I think you're confusing what's "ethical" and what's "legal."

Ethics is not as black and white as you think it is. When it affects you, it can seem very black and white. Is it ethical that China allows essentially slave labor but the US doesn't? Where's your pitchfork for that?

However this is completely legal and millions of companies get their products manufactured in China.

Quote:
Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) attempted to push the sale thru without getting the proper clearance. They were trying to be slick about it & got called out

Are you a lawyer or are you reading inMusic's highly skewed document? You don't think Serato and Alpha Theta have legal teams that review these sorts of things and take the appropriate risk?

In the footnotes of inMusic's document:

Quote:
inMusic recently obtained communications through an Official Information Act request that show ATC was attempting to convince the OIO to allow the transaction to complete unconditionally. Fortunately, the OIO held firm and conditioned approval on Commission clearance/non-intervention. It was only then that ATC and Serato amended their Stock Purchase Agreement to condition closing on Commission clearance, and ATC agreed to submit the Application.


According to my own research—which it appears you have done none yourself—is the NZ OIO determines what deals are to be reviewed. Deal size, what industries, etc. can affect their decision.

Mergers and questions are highly complex with a lot of moving pieces. One of those pieces is to avoid regulatory approval if you can since it can be a massive grey area. In this case, this is exactly what Alpha Theta tried to do. If your livelihood is on the line, you don't want the government mucking up your private business.

And, it's NOT illegal to "convince" the NZ OIO to allow the sale. They can approve or deny if it has merit. In this case, no "slickness" happened, it's just part of the process and the OIO said "your deal is over $100 mill, we need to review this Alpha Theta."

InMusic seems to want to turn this simple detail into a tHEY bROKE tHE lAW!

Governments usually do not get involved in the sale of private businesses unless they affect the ordinary person, involve a lot of money, or are in certain (highly regulated) industries. There's a lot of grey area here and inMusic seems to think that because Pioneer has a large 'share' of the "DJ" market it should also get special scrutiny.

The DJ industry doesn't really affect the ordinary person and contrary to what you and inMusic think, to a government regulatory body, someone with a laptop and a Spotify playlist is as much as a "DJ" these days as someone rocking 2 1200s from 1989 playing real vinyl. And neither of those two use cases even involves Serato, Alpha Theta, or inMusic.

Now if this case was billions of dollars—like TicketMaster and LiveNation—then hell yeh it deservers to should get reviewed.

But inMusic is simply what companies do... try to protect their own behind. If the roles were reversed, Alpha Theta may likely be doing the same thing.
Chino 12:49 AM - 30 November, 2023
Quote:
One of those pieces is to avoid regulatory approval if you can since it can be a massive grey area. In this case, this is exactly what Alpha Theta tried to do.

"Avoiding regulatory approval" is just a nice way of saying that Alpha Theta tried to side step the approval process. Im glad NZ decided to investigate & requires commission clearance before the sale is approved.
DJ STU-C 9:53 AM - 30 November, 2023
And yet Serato felt the need to be shady with their analysis of the issue by stating that 'any' midi controller can be used with their software, then adding 'with a certified Serato sound card' as an aside. Using this as a way of claiming the takeover would have no impact on the DJ industry even if their software becomes locked down.

We all know Serato is one of the most locked down pieces of software on the market and their attempts to pass off any future restrictions as a non-issue by claiming anyone can midi map their software is misleading at best.

This leads us onto the question of why they felt the need to say this? why use an essentially misleading statement as a defence.

Id like to think this forum is populated with some experienced people here, who the hell is going to purchase a DJ controller, midi map everything they can manually then buy a Serato certified sound card and some extra cables just to use it with the software? and more importantly, why the hell are Serato even suggesting this workflow as remotely acceptable?

In my mind they are basically painting a picture of a future where their software will only work natively with existing gear on old versions and Pioneer gear on newer versions.
Chino 12:44 PM - 30 November, 2023
Quote:
And yet Serato felt the need to be shady with their analysis of the issue by stating that 'any' midi controller can be used with their software, then adding 'with a certified Serato sound card' as an aside. Using this as a way of claiming the takeover would have no impact on the DJ industry even if their software becomes locked down.

We all know Serato is one of the most locked down pieces of software on the market and their attempts to pass off any future restrictions as a non-issue by claiming anyone can midi map their software is misleading at best.

Serato & Alpha Theta will say and/or do anything to make sure the sale goes thru. Truth be damned.
Chino 1:18 PM - 30 November, 2023
Quote:

It looks like both sides are being a bit petty about it but there does definitely seem to be some underhand tactics employed by Alpha Theta and Serato to push it through under the radar, with some flaky reasoning/excuses provided as to why it wouldnt impact the market negatively.

This^.
DJ Marv the Maverick 9:52 PM - 30 November, 2023
100million NZD = 61.5million USD

i wonder why Jack did not buy it, they invested 10m in NZ alone.

www.stuff.co.nz
DJ STU-C 10:43 PM - 30 November, 2023
You can only assume they never felt they needed to? maybe thought Serato were in it for the long haul as an independent?
Chino 11:58 PM - 30 November, 2023
Quote:
Maybe thought Serato were in it for the long haul as an independent?


Many people including myself thought Serato was in it for the long haul as an independent company but the announcement of the acquisition of Serato proved other wise.

Quote:
I wonder why Jack did not buy it, they invested 10m in NZ alone.

Jack was playing checkers while Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) & Serato were playing chess. IMHO, Jack was banking on Serato remaining an independent company so this 'situation' caught him by surprise.
SpinThis! 1:18 AM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
i wonder why Jack did not buy it, they invested 10m in NZ alone.

Why buy the farm when you get the milk for free…

Or Serato didn’t want to sell to inMusic.
DJ STU-C 8:27 AM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
i wonder why Jack did not buy it, they invested 10m in NZ alone.

Why buy the farm when you get the milk for free…

Or Serato didn’t want to sell to inMusic.


If you read the documentation on the NZ government website you can find out exactly how it played out. InMusic and Serato had just signed off on handing over the details of a device InMusic are planning for the market in 2yrs time when Serato informed them of the acquisition by Alpha, and that was the first they had ever heard of it.

So all this waffle around Serato somehow being ‘up for sale’ and them not wanting to sell to certain companies is largely just that, waffle.
Chino 9:44 AM - 1 December, 2023
"Serato further imagines—again without explanation—that “bringing together” Serato
and ATC will somehow enhance competition. Serato’s claim is almost too absurd to
rebut. Given the enormous market share that ATC would enjoy, its most logical
business decision would be to increase prices and slow innovation. Without an
independent Serato to constrain ATC, it will be free to operate in anti-competitive
ways. Software innovation will slow and software prices rise. Hardware innovation
will slow and hardware prices rise. ATC will have no incentive not to, other than pure
benevolence. In inMusic’s experience—and presumably the Commission’s as well—
large, multinational, public companies do not voluntarily act benevolently."

Let me be crystal clear. My position is that Serato should remain an independent company. Personally, I'm not a fan of inMusic but I completely agree with their argument above!
SpinThis! 3:25 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
So all this waffle around Serato somehow being ‘up for sale’ and them not wanting to sell to certain companies is largely just that, waffle.

Waffle or not, did it ever occur to anyone else that Serato simply didn't LIKE working with inMusic to begin with and maybe the sale had something to do with it?

Quote:
In inMusic’s experience—and presumably the Commission’s as well—
large, multinational, public companies do not voluntarily act benevolently

This is hilarious because it describes inMusic too. Pot meet kettle.

We have to also remember Serato—as a company—is more than just DJ software. In recent years, they have branched into music production—something that inMusic should know very well—and something that Alpha Theta would likely want to get more into as well.

Just because you stay "independent" doesn't mean you have to keep working with anyone. In this case did they stay working with inMusic to keep the lights on or because they were contractually obgligated to do so? Both? What if selling to Alpha Theta accomplishes their financial survival and more?

When you have a bunch of giant (hardware) companies breathing down your neck, something will give.
SpinThis! 3:48 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Hardware innovation will slow and hardware prices rise

Hey Jack, speaking of innovation, where's yours?

No club wants a Denon or Numark, they want Rane in the booth and they keep squandering the opportunity.

Where's the Rane equivalent of a Pioneer DJM-A9? Or a CDJ-3000? (Simplify the SC!) You bought Rane as a company but when it comes to their products, Rane might as well be Numark 2.0 with the quality of the products they have put out.

InMusic has leaned in heavily into the super niche open format turntablist market but the rest of their products are essentially entry level beginner/controller stuff aside from some of the Engine products.

Rane could have come out with the CRSS12 (Cross Twelve) turntable. People have been asking for years with a turntable that also does timecode, it's what the Rane 12 could have been. Yet, it's an overpriced controller.

And then inMusic have the audacity to claim they can't compete against Pioneer. Good riddance.
DJ STU-C 5:10 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Hardware innovation will slow and hardware prices rise

Hey Jack, speaking of innovation, where's yours?

No club wants a Denon or Numark, they want Rane in the booth and they keep squandering the opportunity.

Where's the Rane equivalent of a Pioneer DJM-A9? Or a CDJ-3000? (Simplify the SC!) You bought Rane as a company but when it comes to their products, Rane might as well be Numark 2.0 with the quality of the products they have put out.

InMusic has leaned in heavily into the super niche open format turntablist market but the rest of their products are essentially entry level beginner/controller stuff aside from some of the Engine products.

Rane could have come out with the CRSS12 (Cross Twelve) turntable. People have been asking for years with a turntable that also does timecode, it's what the Rane 12 could have been. Yet, it's an overpriced controller.

And then inMusic have the audacity to claim they can't compete against Pioneer. Good riddance.


So you want Inmusic to disappear? just so we're clear here? Leaving only Pioneer DJ and a few ultra niche companies providing products in the DJ space?
HellNegative1 5:22 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Hardware innovation will slow and hardware prices rise

Hey Jack, speaking of innovation, where's yours?

No club wants a Denon or Numark, they want Rane in the booth and they keep squandering the opportunity.

Where's the Rane equivalent of a Pioneer DJM-A9? Or a CDJ-3000? (Simplify the SC!) You bought Rane as a company but when it comes to their products, Rane might as well be Numark 2.0 with the quality of the products they have put out.

InMusic has leaned in heavily into the super niche open format turntablist market but the rest of their products are essentially entry level beginner/controller stuff aside from some of the Engine products.

Rane could have come out with the CRSS12 (Cross Twelve) turntable. People have been asking for years with a turntable that also does timecode, it's what the Rane 12 could have been. Yet, it's an overpriced controller.

And then inMusic have the audacity to claim they can't compete against Pioneer. Good riddance.


InMusic need to drop their current turntable partner and switch to Hanpin before making any new turntables again. The VL12 is just a flashier ntx1000. The Rane Twelves using the same motor controller and motor assy is the reason I still haven’t purchased twelve MK2’s.


I’ve never had a buyer or renter ask me for Rane gear for an install. I haven’t even gotten a request for a Rane seventy two in ages (sold it for the same reason). With the exception of a very small few, everyone who plays dvs is more than happy coming across a S11 in the booth. The Rane name doesn’t hold the same power it used to.
Ragman 5:49 PM - 1 December, 2023
All the while, VDJ is waiting and watching.
SpinThis! 5:58 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
So you want Inmusic to disappear? just so we're clear here? Leaving only Pioneer DJ and a few ultra niche companies providing products in the DJ space?

Of course not. If that's what you got out of my post, I think you need to reread what I wrote a couple times before commenting rubbish.

I'm saying if they want to compete with Pioneer, they should actually... COMPETE.

DJ/DVS software is only ONE area where Alpha Theta and inMusic overlap.

Quote:
The Rane name doesn’t hold the same power it used to.

Yes - this is more of what I'm getting at. Rane sold to inMusic in 2016. That's almost a decade. And what have they done with the Rane brand? What innovation? Run a brand into the ground and then complain that your closest competitor is eating your lunch is not competing in my book.

I thnk the SC series would have done much better under Rane than Denon. And then come out with a club style mixer. The X1850 is
SpinThis! 6:01 PM - 1 December, 2023
oops posted instead of previewed....

... The X1850 is NOT that mixer.
HellNegative1 7:05 PM - 1 December, 2023
Agreed. I love my sc6000’s and my sc500’s are still kickin like new. The X1800 and X1850 were hot garbage that had a plethora of quality control issues. The entire mixer being a single pcb without user replaceable components (except the crossfader) was a huge mistake as well.
DJ STU-C 7:26 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
So you want Inmusic to disappear? just so we're clear here? Leaving only Pioneer DJ and a few ultra niche companies providing products in the DJ space?

Of course not. If that's what you got out of my post, I think you need to reread what I wrote a couple times before commenting rubbish.

I'm saying if they want to compete with Pioneer, they should actually... COMPETE.

DJ/DVS software is only ONE area where Alpha Theta and inMusic overlap.

Quote:
The Rane name doesn’t hold the same power it used to.

Yes - this is more of what I'm getting at. Rane sold to inMusic in 2016. That's almost a decade. And what have they done with the Rane brand? What innovation? Run a brand into the ground and then complain that your closest competitor is eating your lunch is not competing in my book.

I thnk the SC series would have done much better under Rane than Denon. And then come out with a club style mixer. The X1850 is


What does 'good riddance' mean then? what is the context of that phrase to your comment?
SpinThis! 7:49 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
What does 'good riddance' mean then? what is the context of that phrase to your comment?

You're quoting out of context. Read the original post where that line appears again and hopefully my entire view will make sense.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of inMusic. You don't make an F150 pickup truck and then tell the government you can't compete against a semi. They might do similar things but at the end of the day, they're very 2 different markets.

They could compete against Alpha Theta if they wanted to but they choose to kick and scream and claim unfair competition even when there's plenty in the DJ software market.

If your hardware relies on another company's software to function—which may or may not become a competitors at some point—that's nobody's fault except your own. Alpha Theta realized this early and created rekordbox. Maybe inMusic decided that standalone was better long-term. However, now in the short term, they're caught with their pants down.
DJ STU-C 7:56 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
What does 'good riddance' mean then? what is the context of that phrase to your comment?

You're quoting out of context. Read the original post where that line appears again and hopefully my entire view will make sense.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of inMusic. You don't make an F150 pickup truck and then tell the government you can't compete against a semi. They might do similar things but at the end of the day, they're very 2 different markets.

They could compete against Alpha Theta if they wanted to but they choose to kick and scream and claim unfair competition even when there's plenty in the DJ software market.

If your hardware relies on another company's software to function—which may or may not become a competitors at some point—that's nobody's fault except your own. Alpha Theta realized this early and created rekordbox. Maybe inMusic decided that standalone was better long-term. However, now in the short term, they're caught with their pants down.


So you think nobody should be raising any questions or concerns about this transaction at all? that it should be just allowed to sail through with no scrutiny?

And I never took anything out of context, you ended a comment with the phrase 'good riddance' and I asked you to clarify what you mean by it... you still haven't clarified.
SpinThis! 8:20 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
So you think nobody should be raising any questions or concerns about this transaction at all? that it should be just allowed to sail through with no scrutiny?

Who cares what I think personally? The regulators are doing their jobs. All I'm saying is don't be surprised when they find little issue with this buyout or require some small conditions like "support/extend existing manufacturers agreements for 2-3 years" or something.

Quote:
And I never took anything out of context, you ended a comment with the phrase 'good riddance' and I asked you to clarify what you mean by it... you still haven't clarified.

You mentioned a comment I made about 10 posts ago in an out of context reply and I told you to reference the original. If you can't follow the thread, I can't help you.

TLDR: inMusic wants to play this ridiculous David vs Goliath argument when they themselves have a portfolio of companies larger than Alpha Theta. Really? I have zero sympathy for their lack of market awareness. If you can't compete, litigate, or pressure the government to do it for you.

Alpha Theta are no saints either. But it's pretty hard to trust a company who screwed over Roger Linn, and prematurely put products like TTM57SLMKII out to pasture (meanwhile the same year products from Pioneer are still supported).
DJ STU-C 8:28 PM - 1 December, 2023
It’s an internet forum, why make comments if your attitude is ‘who cares what I think’, there is literally no point you being here if you don’t think people want to respond to your comments and ask for clarification on what you mean by them.

Nobody is going to be surprised by anything, we’re just following along where possible, in fact until I brought this web page to everybodies attention, and Syndic8 also contributing with some info, pretty much to a man everybody has assumed Alpha own Serato (as seen by the frankly ridiculous requests on Pioneer social media channels for Serato software updates).

What I do know for sure, if and when this buyout will go through, then in a couple of years when Alpha have either closed down Serato and moved the tech to their own platform or added Serato to the Alpha pro plan and made it an expensive monthly subscription… you and your ilk will still be here doubling down on your assertions because you will literally do and say anything to avoid ever admitting you’re wrong about something. It’s the internet and people like you sadly typify many of the things that are wrong with it.
SpinThis! 8:43 PM - 1 December, 2023
Quote:
What I do know for sure, if and when this buyout will go through, then in a couple of years when Alpha have either closed down Serato and moved the tech to their own platform or added Serato to the Alpha pro plan and made it an expensive monthly subscription…

So what? Some DJs are still running SSL and that was ages ago. (I remember that software, I was one of the original beta testers so yeh I'm biased on Serato surviving.)

Consolidation happens. I'd rather cross that bridge when we get to it than make some dumb assumption.

I also don't know why people have such an aversion to software subscriptions. Maybe DJs themselves have problems getting themselves paid so they think software programmers shouldn't get paid either? It's really the only way software companies make stable money these days.

Quote:
you and your ilk will still be here doubling down on your assertions because you will literally do and say anything to avoid ever admitting you’re wrong about something. It’s the internet and people like you sadly typify many of the things that are wrong with it.

I'm sorry you think this is a "you vs me" thing. Let's revisit this in 5 years and I'll be glad to admit I made a mistake.

Until then, I'd appreciate if you wouldn't automatically put people into boxes like "ilk." You sound like an extremely angry person.

I have some advice - touch grass my man, touch some grass.
DJ STU-C 9:00 PM - 1 December, 2023
[quoteI also don't know why people have such an aversion to software subscriptions. Maybe DJs themselves have problems getting themselves paid so they think software programmers shouldn't get paid either? It's really the only way software companies make stable money these days.

Because it’s terrible value for money. Pioneer charge £360 a year for their professional plan, you don’t get £360 worth of service for that fee.

I earn around £40,000 a year from my day job before overtime, so basic pay. I also earn around £3000 a year from my ‘hobby’ DJ gigs, my partner has a much better job than I do. Money is not a problem to us, nor is ‘getting paid’…. What is a problem is value and getting value out of things you spend money on, and I’m sorry but giving Pioneer DJ £3600 in a decade for a software app that gets periodic updates at best is a complete waste of money.

I’m also not the angry one here, you’re the one diving in like Billy big bollocks, mouthing off at every single person who might have some issues with this proposed takeover, you really need to have some kind of self awareness here, your comments are typical of yet another anonymous internet big man, a keyboard warrior as it were…. You even roll out all the tired old phrases that are parroted by people like yourself, in fact I’m pretty shocked you aren’t calling people Bruh at this point.

Anyway I’m out, have the last word I know it means the world to you, I’ve provided some factual documents for people to read, you’ve provided not a lot of worth. Laters.
Chino 11:10 AM - 2 December, 2023
Quote:
What happens to Serato if the acquisition doesn't go through?

That's a good question. Hopefully, Serato is doing well financially & can continue operating.
Chino 11:44 AM - 2 December, 2023
"If the proposed acquisition is permitted, with great reluctance and disappointment, inMusic will
be left with no choice but to shutter its New Zealand operations and retreat from the DJ market altogether. The proposed acquisition will lessen competition by foreclosing DJ hardware
competitors from partnering with Serato thereby increasing ATC’s already dominant market
share in hardware. ATC also will control a dominant share of the DJ software market."

Is InMusic bluffing? Will inMusic shut down Rane, Denon DJ & Numark??! The DJ market is already small. We need more competitors, more hardware/software choices, and more innovation- not less!!

All this in order for some greedy CEOs & share holders to become richer while the DJ community suffers?!
DJ STU-C 12:04 PM - 2 December, 2023
Quote:
"If the proposed acquisition is permitted, with great reluctance and disappointment, inMusic will
be left with no choice but to shutter its New Zealand operations and retreat from the DJ market altogether. The proposed acquisition will lessen competition by foreclosing DJ hardware
competitors from partnering with Serato thereby increasing ATC’s already dominant market
share in hardware. ATC also will control a dominant share of the DJ software market."

Is InMusic bluffing? Will inMusic shut down Rane, Denon DJ & Numark??! The DJ market is already small. We need more competitors, more hardware/software choices, and more innovation- not less!!

All this in order for some greedy CEOs & share holders to become richer while the DJ community suffers?!


It sounds like hyperbole making such a statement, but im guessing their main concern is handing over designs to forthcoming units to a direct competitor. I imagine any innovations they want to bring to the market risk being pipped to the post by the much larger player as they will potentially give them a head start on competing with said innovation.

Im sure if they do leave the DJ market they will be selling those brands rather than dissolving them, but who knows.

I just hope Pioneer can bring something to the market that appeals to me, a direct competitor to my Prime 2, I don't really feel the RX3 is that right now.
DJ STU-C 12:06 PM - 2 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
What happens to Serato if the acquisition doesn't go through?

That's a good question. Hopefully, Serato is doing well financially & can continue operating.


That is the other side of the argument, does it mean Serato go under and is that worse for the overall market if they do?
DJ STU-C 12:12 PM - 2 December, 2023
"ATC also supplies DJ software called rekordbox to end users. rekordbox is tightly
integrated with ATC’s DJ hardware. ATC does not allow rekordbox to be integrated
with any competitive DJ hardware products. inMusic expressly requested that ATC
allow rekordbox to be sold with inMusic DJ hardware, and ATC refused. ATC’s
refusal is unsurprising because ATC’s well-publicised, long-term growth strategy is to create a closed ecosystem of hardware and software (i.e., “No. 1/Only 1”; “One
Through Music”) that delivers value to customers through a single platform"

Another interesting quote from the documents.
HellNegative1 2:22 PM - 2 December, 2023
Quote:
"If the proposed acquisition is permitted, with great reluctance and disappointment, inMusic will
be left with no choice but to shutter its New Zealand operations and retreat from the DJ market altogether. The proposed acquisition will lessen competition by foreclosing DJ hardware
competitors from partnering with Serato thereby increasing ATC’s already dominant market
share in hardware. ATC also will control a dominant share of the DJ software market."

Is InMusic bluffing? Will inMusic shut down Rane, Denon DJ & Numark??! The DJ market is already small. We need more competitors, more hardware/software choices, and more innovation- not less!!

All this in order for some greedy CEOs & share holders to become richer while the DJ community suffers?!


Half bluffing. They will close down the NZ office if the acquisition goes through.
Mikecola 11:55 AM - 3 December, 2023
So all this waffle around Serato somehow being ‘up for sale’ and them not wanting to sell to certain companies is largely just that, waffle.


Mmmmm I love me some waffles
Chino 10:20 AM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:
ATC does not allow rekordbox to be integrated
with any competitive DJ hardware products. inMusic expressly requested that ATC
allow rekordbox to be sold with inMusic DJ hardware, and ATC refused.

Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) does not play well with competitors. If this is any indication of Alpha Theta's future business strategy then the DJ community is in trouble!
Chino 10:51 AM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:

InMusic and Serato had just signed off on handing over the details of a device InMusic are planning for the market in 2yrs time when Serato informed them of the acquisition by Alpha, and that was the first they had ever heard of it.

This explains the statement Jack made about how he "thought Serato & inMusic were partners..."

Always get it in writting & never trust what someone says!

I'm curious about the new product releasing in 2years. Is it a Serato DJ Pro embedded controller? Maybe a dedicated Serato Studio controller? Or a Rane 4 with moving platters?
DJ STU-C 3:55 PM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
InMusic and Serato had just signed off on handing over the details of a device InMusic are planning for the market in 2yrs time when Serato informed them of the acquisition by Alpha, and that was the first they had ever heard of it.

This explains the statement Jack made about how he "thought Serato & inMusic were partners..."

Always get it in writting & never trust what someone says!

I'm curious about the new product releasing in 2years. Is it a Serato DJ Pro embedded controller? Maybe a dedicated Serato Studio controller? Or a Rane 4 with moving platters?


Id guess at a new battle mixer but could be anything really couldn't it.
Chino 7:55 PM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:
I'd guess at a new battle mixer but could be anything really couldn't it.

Your probably right about Rane releasing a new mixer. A 4 channel mixer with fx would be cool!
HellNegative1 8:15 PM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
I'd guess at a new battle mixer but could be anything really couldn't it.

Your probably right about Rane releasing a new mixer. A 4 channel mixer with fx would be cool!


An actual quality 4 channel mixer has been needed in the InMusic lineup for a while now. We can only hope that it will be a proper mixer with user replaceable parts released under the ran moniker.
DJ STU-C 8:21 PM - 4 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd guess at a new battle mixer but could be anything really couldn't it.

Your probably right about Rane releasing a new mixer. A 4 channel mixer with fx would be cool!


An actual quality 4 channel mixer has been needed in the InMusic lineup for a while now. We can only hope that it will be a proper mixer with user replaceable parts released under the ran moniker.


100% on this.
HellNegative1 8:58 PM - 5 December, 2023
Now that pioneer DJ has changed from a subsidiary or Alpha Theta to Alpha Theta DJ, maybe this is the kind of thing OnMusic is afraid will happen with Serato?
DJ STU-C 9:37 PM - 5 December, 2023
Quote:
Now that pioneer DJ has changed from a subsidiary or Alpha Theta to Alpha Theta DJ, maybe this is the kind of thing OnMusic is afraid will happen with Serato?


Like Phil Morse said, they’ll want return on their 100m and what kind of fool would keep 2 software running concurrently, makes no economic sense. One of them is getting popped isn’t it.

Interestingly the decision has been extended to the 22nd.
Ragman 10:39 PM - 5 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Now that pioneer DJ has changed from a subsidiary or Alpha Theta to Alpha Theta DJ, maybe this is the kind of thing OnMusic is afraid will happen with Serato?


Like Phil Morse said, they’ll want return on their 100m and what kind of fool would keep 2 software running concurrently, makes no economic sense. One of them is getting popped isn’t it.

Interestingly the decision has been extended to the 22nd.

Because Serato is so widespread amongst controllers, you would think that RB would be the one to bite the dust.
DJ STU-C 10:53 PM - 5 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now that pioneer DJ has changed from a subsidiary or Alpha Theta to Alpha Theta DJ, maybe this is the kind of thing OnMusic is afraid will happen with Serato?


Like Phil Morse said, they’ll want return on their 100m and what kind of fool would keep 2 software running concurrently, makes no economic sense. One of them is getting popped isn’t it.

Interestingly the decision has been extended to the 22nd.

Because Serato is so widespread amongst controllers, you would think that RB would be the one to bite the dust.


Yeah and lets be honest, There isnt really anything in RB that needs to be ported to Serato, whereas there are tonnes of things the other way.... alternatively they could just re-skin Serato as Rekordbox.
DJ Marv the Maverick 12:46 AM - 6 December, 2023
Quote:
There isnt really anything in RB that needs to be ported to Serato,


User tags

Suggestions / Match / Fuzzy key

Mix and match stream files with local playlist

Rekordbox lyrics for the video heads

Crowd sourced bpm/grids

Etc

Serato library part needs to be refreshed like yesterday.
HellNegative1 2:43 AM - 6 December, 2023
All that marve said plus,

Deck auto switching when controller focus changes

16 hotcues

64, 128, 256, and 512 beat Beatjump and looping

Open to all audio interfaces

Rekordbox dmx/lighting (I use it for my wedding gigs).

Link mode for cdjs

Export mode

Having full access to performance mode without a device connected

More in depth fx controls

Deeper controller and mixer settings

Mapping stems to faders/knobs

MIDI mapping library sort options

MIDI mapping mixer controls
DJ STU-C 10:40 AM - 6 December, 2023
A few of them are in Serato aren't they, or not available in RB.

E.g. performance mode without a device is now a thing in Serato (that you have to pay for admittedly)

Also Open to all audio interfaces, RB might be more flexible than Serato but its certainly not open to all (remember InMusic argued this exact point in their document).

My original comment was more about the core functionality like how good the DVS tracking in Serato is compared to everyone else, and ability to use moving platter controllers, Pitch'N'Time... these are things i mainly use, also Serato's method of adding new files is far better than anyone else as it has a built in files function so you can do it without having to have multiple windows open.
HellNegative1 1:44 PM - 6 December, 2023
Quote:
A few of them are in Serato aren't they, or not available in RB.

E.g. performance mode without a device is now a thing in Serato (that you have to pay for admittedly)

Also Open to all audio interfaces, RB might be more flexible than Serato but its certainly not open to all (remember InMusic argued this exact point in their document).

My original comment was more about the core functionality like how good the DVS tracking in Serato is compared to everyone else, and ability to use moving platter controllers, Pitch'N'Time... these are things i mainly use, also Serato's method of adding new files is far better than anyone else as it has a built in files function so you can do it without having to have multiple windows open.


I haven’t found an interface yet that doesn’t work with rekordbox. :-p you can even use a Behringer uca for dvs control in rekordbox.

Serato Play is severely limited compared to having access to full performance mode.
DJ STU-C 2:07 PM - 6 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
A few of them are in Serato aren't they, or not available in RB.

E.g. performance mode without a device is now a thing in Serato (that you have to pay for admittedly)

Also Open to all audio interfaces, RB might be more flexible than Serato but its certainly not open to all (remember InMusic argued this exact point in their document).

My original comment was more about the core functionality like how good the DVS tracking in Serato is compared to everyone else, and ability to use moving platter controllers, Pitch'N'Time... these are things i mainly use, also Serato's method of adding new files is far better than anyone else as it has a built in files function so you can do it without having to have multiple windows open.


I haven’t found an interface yet that doesn’t work with rekordbox. :-p you can even use a Behringer uca for dvs control in rekordbox.

Serato Play is severely limited compared to having access to full performance mode.


Any of the Rane/Denon/Inmusic ones? As far as im aware none of those devices work with RB?
HellNegative1 4:41 PM - 6 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A few of them are in Serato aren't they, or not available in RB.

E.g. performance mode without a device is now a thing in Serato (that you have to pay for admittedly)

Also Open to all audio interfaces, RB might be more flexible than Serato but its certainly not open to all (remember InMusic argued this exact point in their document).

My original comment was more about the core functionality like how good the DVS tracking in Serato is compared to everyone else, and ability to use moving platter controllers, Pitch'N'Time... these are things i mainly use, also Serato's method of adding new files is far better than anyone else as it has a built in files function so you can do it without having to have multiple windows open.


I haven’t found an interface yet that doesn’t work with rekordbox. :-p you can even use a Behringer uca for dvs control in rekordbox.

Serato Play is severely limited compared to having access to full performance mode.


Any of the Rane/Denon/Inmusic ones? As far as im aware none of those devices work with RB?


I’ve used a Rane seventy, seventy two, and x1850 with rekordbox dvs. All worked fine and without issues.
Chino 5:19 PM - 6 December, 2023
Some good news about the proposed Serato acquisition is competitors like Algoriddim DJ Pro AI are really stepping their game up!

If Alpha Theta & Serato wanna play 'monopoly' then I can choose to use a competitor's software instead.
Chino 5:30 PM - 6 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
In inMusic’s experience—and presumably the Commission’s as well—
large, multinational, public companies do not voluntarily act benevolently

This is hilarious because it describes inMusic too. Pot meet kettle.

I agree that both sides are ridiculously hypocritical to the point of being absurd!!
DJ STU-C 7:40 PM - 6 December, 2023
Im just updating my phone to 5.0 to give it a run out, and my plan is to buy a stacked iPad Pro to move over to algoriddim too. Like you say if they wanna close of the market they can crack on, my Reloop Flux, DDJ-SP1 and LC-6000 all work with Djay.
Chino 4:35 PM - 8 December, 2023
Quote:
Like you say if they wanna close off the market then they can crack on

💯 I'm keeping my options open & will be ready to 'jump ship' if need be!
DJ STU-C 7:36 PM - 8 December, 2023
3 more documents have been uploaded to the case files. Including another anonymous fanboy 🤣
Chino 2:14 PM - 12 December, 2023
Quote:
3 more documents have been uploaded to the case files. Including another anonymous fanboy 🤣

Yeah, its ridiculous! If I thought it would make a difference, I would write my own 'love letter'(lol).
DJ STU-C 3:03 PM - 12 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
3 more documents have been uploaded to the case files. Including another anonymous fanboy 🤣

Yeah, its ridiculous! If I thought it would make a difference, I would write my own 'love letter'(lol).


You can almost feel the grease dripping from their pores as they write it... pass the sick bucket.
Ragman 12:48 AM - 13 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
3 more documents have been uploaded to the case files. Including another anonymous fanboy 🤣

Yeah, its ridiculous! If I thought it would make a difference, I would write my own 'love letter'(lol).


You can almost feel the grease dripping from their pores as they write it... pass the sick bucket.

:-)
DJ STU-C 8:05 AM - 22 December, 2023
Delayed until March now... no new documents on their site.
Chino 1:43 PM - 22 December, 2023
Quote:
Delayed until March now... no new documents on their site.

Are these delays a normal part of the approval process?
Will product releases be pushed back due to these delays?

I ask these questions because NAMM is around the corner. I can't see Alpha Theta releasing any new Serato compatible products until the acquisition has been approved. I definitely don't see inMusic releasing any Serato compatible gear unless it was already in the pipeline before the sale announement was made.

This acquision is a mess & will have little to no benefit for us(DJs/consumers).
Chino 1:45 PM - 22 December, 2023
*this acquisition is a mess
DJ STU-C 2:30 PM - 22 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
Delayed until March now... no new documents on their site.

Are these delays a normal part of the approval process?
Will product releases be pushed back due to these delays?

I ask these questions because NAMM is around the corner. I can't see Alpha Theta releasing any new Serato compatible products until the acquisition has been approved. I definitely don't see inMusic releasing any Serato compatible gear unless it was already in the pipeline before the sale announement was made.

This acquision is a mess & will have little to no benefit for us(DJs/consumers).


Id say it proves there are things in there that need more consideration, which usually means stumbling blocks to consider, and as much as everyone wants to paint InMusic as Ebenezer Scrooge, i can't imagine whatever they have said is the primary factor... the people reviewing it dont care about the DJ world or gear etc, they are just independents looking at the details.

Yes its a mess, but always was going to be tbf.
HellNegative1 5:25 PM - 22 December, 2023
Quote:
*this acquisition is a mess
Chino 2:29 PM - 30 December, 2023
Quote:
I'd say it proves there are things in there that need more consideration, which usually means stumbling blocks to consider, and as much as everyone wants to paint InMusic as Ebenezer Scrooge, i can't imagine whatever they have said is the primary factor... the people reviewing it dont care about the DJ world or gear etc, they are just independents looking at the details.

The posibility of inMusic going "scorched earth" is disappointing but understandable. This does leave an opportunity for Algoriddim DJ Pro AI and inMusic to make a power play for Serato's user base.

Alpha Theta & Serato's attempts to 'spin' & paint the acquision as positive for the DJ community could back fire on them & have the opposite effect. We might see a mass exodus of long time Serato users to different DJ softwares.

Maybe this 'splinter effect' will be good for the the DJ community in the long term? It could possibly re-ignite competition & innovation.
DjSyndic8 3:29 PM - 30 December, 2023
Quote:
The posibility of inMusic going "scorched earth" is disappointing but understandable. This does leave an opportunity for Algoriddim DJ Pro AI and inMusic to make a power play for Serato's user base.

Alpha Theta & Serato's attempts to 'spin' & paint the acquision as positive for the DJ community could back fire on them & have the opposite effect. We might see a mass exodus of long time Serato users to different DJ softwares.

Maybe this 'splinter effect' will be good for the the DJ community in the long term? It could possibly re-ignite competition & innovation.


Could Be Chino,
I mean the way DJay Pro 5.0 is going its definately a contender, The Stems is very good.

I see Algoriddim as a company thats always inovating new features.
Ragman 3:36 PM - 30 December, 2023
They need to innovate the Windows version. Doesn't make sense to have a lesser version in Windows.
DjSyndic8 4:36 PM - 30 December, 2023
Quote:
They need to innovate the Windows version. Doesn't make sense to have a lesser version in Windows.

right on Ragman. Im currently using Mac version on 5.03 and its running smooth
pain in the ass analyzing my whole collection, you can only do it one folder at a time
Mutis 5:20 PM - 30 December, 2023
Quote:
They need to innovate the Windows version. Doesn't make sense to have a lesser version in Windows.


Someone could say the opposite for Serato iPad version…
Ragman 9:00 PM - 30 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
[...]

Someone could say the opposite for Serato iPad version…

I agree, but that's not their flagship software.
DJ STU-C 10:41 AM - 31 December, 2023
If I was moving to Djay full time I’d want a 3 deck screen option to go with the Reloop flux and I’d want to use it on an iPad or phone full time and ditch the laptop.

It baffles me how powerful modern iPads are yet Apple are the only company harnessing it right now (possibly Adobe a little too). I’m upgrading mine in Jan and it’ll have a better chip than my laptop.
Mutis 11:24 AM - 31 December, 2023
We are still not there.
DJ STU-C 12:59 PM - 31 December, 2023
One thing that stands out for me in this whole saga... why have Alpha and Serato felt the need to include what can only be described as Bullshit in their reasoning for the merger.

Usually when BS is involved there is something amiss, if you have an honest case to present you only need to include facts and let the process do the rest. What they have done makes me highly suspicious.
DjSyndic8 3:05 PM - 31 December, 2023
Quote:
One thing that stands out for me in this whole saga... why have Alpha and Serato felt the need to include what can only be described as Bullshit in their reasoning for the merger.

Usually when BS is involved there is something amiss, if you have an honest case to present you only need to include facts and let the process do the rest. What they have done makes me highly suspicious.


when your dealing with multi million dollar companies "Bullshit" is the Glue that keeps it from falling apart, No Company has ever gotten successful by doing the right thing,
If companies has a chance to get rid of the competition then they will do it,
well thats my oppinion:)
DJ STU-C 3:44 PM - 31 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
One thing that stands out for me in this whole saga... why have Alpha and Serato felt the need to include what can only be described as Bullshit in their reasoning for the merger.

Usually when BS is involved there is something amiss, if you have an honest case to present you only need to include facts and let the process do the rest. What they have done makes me highly suspicious.


when your dealing with multi million dollar companies "Bullshit" is the Glue that keeps it from falling apart, No Company has ever gotten successful by doing the right thing,
If companies has a chance to get rid of the competition then they will do it,
well thats my oppinion:)


No I get that DjS, I work for a company far larger than either of those two, I deal with 40hrs of it a week:).... it's more the level of nonsense they stooped to in those reports. The stuff about 'any controller can be mapped to work with any software' as an excuse for why the merger won't matter being the most ridiculous. Using a technicality to mask the restrictions put in place to do exactly that, with those two companies being the worst offenders.

Imagine Joe Public trying to midi map a platter. I find it almost insulting our intelligence by making a statement like that, and basically proving they are going to be operating underhand tactics after the merger.
Chino 4:50 PM - 31 December, 2023
Quote:

Quote:

Why have Alpha Theta and Serato felt the need to include what can only be described as bullshit in their reasoning for the merger?


Usually when BS is involved there is something amiss. If you have an honest case to present you only need to include facts and let the process do the rest. What they have done makes me highly suspicious.

Exactly.

Alpha Theta & Serato are definitely aware that this acquisition will give them a dominant market share 'monopoly'. They are down playing it in order for the sale to be approved by NZ. Marketing is sugar coating the sale by selling it with the possibility of "new synergistic" products being developed in the future.
Chino 4:55 PM - 31 December, 2023
Quote:
The stuff about 'any controller can be mapped to work with any software' as an excuse for why the merger won't matter being the most ridiculous. Using a technicality to mask the restrictions put in place to do exactly that, with those two companies being the worst offenders.


THIS^!! Alpha Theta & Serato can attempt to mislead the NZ approval board because they are not aware of how things really work in the DJ industry. We know the truth & it's disappointing to say the the least that Serato would stoop so low just to get the sale approved.
ceedogg13 11:52 PM - 31 December, 2023
i love my serato dj pro but once djay pro 5.0 is availible for my rane 4 im leaving serato , with all thats going on i have to have a second option..
Chino 12:24 PM - 1 January, 2024
Quote:
I love my Serato DJ Pro but once Djay Pro 5.0 is availible for my Rane 4 I'm leaving Serato, with all that's going on I have to have a second option.

I feel the same way. I need a Rane 4 MK2 with moving platters, a Rane One MK2 or the Hercules T7 to work with Djay Pro 5.0 in order to make the move.
InMusic needs to start making dedicated controllers for Djay Pro 5.0. They also need a desktop version of their Engine Prime dj software.
Chino 12:59 PM - 1 January, 2024
Quote:
Imagine Joe Public trying to midi map a platter?! I find it almost insulting our intelligence by making a statement like that, and basically proving they are going to be operating underhand tactics after the merger.

Statements like these show their true intent- make sure the sell is approved by any means necessary!
Deception is standard operating practice.
Unfortunately, IF the acquisition is approved, it will be more of the same lies, & corporate greed.
Philmixit 6:54 PM - 1 January, 2024
I am staying with Serato to the END.
Chino 6:58 PM - 3 January, 2024
Quote:
I am staying with Serato to the END.

I appreciate your positive outlook & I use to feel the same way too. IF Serato is selling because they have no other choice due to financial reasons then I understand.

Having a backup DJ software option is just good practice in case things go bad with this acquisition. Unfortunately, the more I read about the acquisition, the less trust I have in Alpha Theta & Serato.
DjSyndic8 3:30 AM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Having a backup DJ software option is just good practice in case things go bad with this acquisition. Unfortunately, the more I read about the acquisition, the less trust I have in Alpha Theta & Serato

+1
KlausMogensen 12:20 PM - 4 January, 2024
Not a nice read...
It seems that a lot of people assume that Serato eventually will being discontinued - except maybe in name
Do you guys all think that?
DJ STU-C 12:52 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Not a nice read...
It seems that a lot of people assume that Serato eventually will being discontinued - except maybe in name
Do you guys all think that?


One of them will disappear 100%, it makes zero sense to employ 2 dev teams working on 2 pieces of software that do largely the same thing.

Being ultra cynical i would say Alpha want Serato for their commercial assets (superior DVS and moving platter tech) so they can use it in their own product (Rekordbox).
Ragman 4:03 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Not a nice read...
It seems that a lot of people assume that Serato eventually will being discontinued - except maybe in name
Do you guys all think that?


One of them will disappear 100%, it makes zero sense to employ 2 dev teams working on 2 pieces of software that do largely the same thing.

Being ultra cynical i would say Alpha want Serato for their commercial assets (superior DVS and moving platter tech) so they can use it in their own product (Rekordbox).

I'm taking a a guess here, but once the smoke clears, Rekordbox will cease to exist. It doesn't make good business sense to hold on to the inferior product and get rid of the dominant one once you own it.
DJ STU-C 4:08 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not a nice read...
It seems that a lot of people assume that Serato eventually will being discontinued - except maybe in name
Do you guys all think that?


One of them will disappear 100%, it makes zero sense to employ 2 dev teams working on 2 pieces of software that do largely the same thing.

Being ultra cynical i would say Alpha want Serato for their commercial assets (superior DVS and moving platter tech) so they can use it in their own product (Rekordbox).

I'm taking a a guess here, but once the smoke clears, Rekordbox will cease to exist. It doesn't make good business sense to hold on to the inferior product and get rid of the dominant one once you own it.


Possibly, the only caveat being far more DJs use RB than Serato.... think about it, every single person who's ever played on Nexus gear has had some connection to RB. Serato is basically a non-entity in the UK, im literally the only person i know who uses it, everyone else uses RB for their USBs or DJ controller.
Chino 4:08 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
One of them will disappear 100%, it makes zero sense to employ 2 dev teams working on 2 pieces of software that do largely the same thing.

Being ultra cynical i would say Alpha Theta wants Serato for their commercial assets (superior DVS and moving platter tech) so they can use it in their own product (Rekordbox).

This is the brutal reality. From a business stand point it makes perfect sense to buy out your competition. Incorporate all the tech into Rekordbox(better dvs, stems etc.)

Serato also has Studio, Pitch N Time & Sampler. All great programs that could be used to better Pioneer's Toraiz line. Alpha Theta has already expressed their interest in the music production space. Now throw in the human assests(Serato's devs) & market share control & you essentially have a 'monopoly' of the DJ industry. Regardless of how small or 'niche' the DJ industry is... having 80%+ market share control WILL increase prices, limit choices & crush innovation!!

Like others have said, Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) could also do nothing with Serato, add features & innovate Rekordbox & its the same out come. Or make Serato totally subscription based. Either way Alpha Theta wins & we(DJs, consumers, end users) pay more 💰💰💰?!
Chino 4:26 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Serato is basically a non-entity in the UK, im literally the only person i know who uses it, everyone else uses RB for their USBs or DJ controller.

In the U.S. it's the opposite. The club/mobile DJ market primarily uses Serato & Virtual DJ followed by Rekordbox & all the rest.

Would it make financial sense to keep Serato for the U.S. & Rekordbox for UK, Europe & Asia? Is Serato or Rekordbox more widely used/popular outside the U.S.?
The U.S. is the largest DJ market in the world so maybe that will play a factor in determining which DJ software Alpha Theta keeps?
Ragman 5:25 PM - 4 January, 2024
Maybe it's me but I don't think you purchase Serato just to raid and get rid of them. And I think Serato is smarter than that to let that happened, legally. I know some of you think RB is untouchable but Serato has the name, the longevity and the more developed product not to mention it's a cash cow. If you are smart business people, you won't get rid of the company with all that Dev talent, just so you can beef up your inferior product.
DJ STU-C 7:01 PM - 4 January, 2024
Has anyone else had an inkling that Serato are in financial trouble and that’s why this merger is so desperately being pushed through?

Most users own their license and paid £80 for it years ago, or just use with a controller and it’s unlock mode, either way they aren’t regular income streams.

I can’t see how it’s sustainable these days.
Chino 7:49 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Has anyone else had an inkling that Serato are in financial trouble and that’s why this merger is so desperately being pushed through?

It feels that way! I'm sure the Pandemic didn't help their financial situation any.

Maybe it's time to start a 'GO FUND Me' for Serato! ; )
DJ Marv the Maverick 10:23 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Has anyone else had an inkling that Serato are in financial trouble


Could be who knows. There are feature requests and bug reports that are more than 10 years old on this forum.

Seems they are carefully managing their resources- money/dev.

I wonder how for/against folks will feel if the merger does not go ahead and serato goes the way of the dodo 🦤
DJ STU-C 11:37 PM - 4 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Has anyone else had an inkling that Serato are in financial trouble


Could be who knows. There are feature requests and bug reports that are more than 10 years old on this forum.

Seems they are carefully managing their resources- money/dev.

I wonder how for/against folks will feel if the merger does not go ahead and serato goes the way of the dodo 🦤


That’s the potential double edged sword isn’t it. I don’t think there is a good ending to this story either way.
Chino 1:51 PM - 14 January, 2024
Quote:
I don’t think there is a good ending to this story either way.

It will be good for the CEO(s) & share holders but not for us- the DJ community. I hope I'm wrong, tho.
Chino 9:31 PM - 14 January, 2024
Spent some time on Algoriddim's forum & came across this post...

Michael_Wisniewski
Jul '23

"But I’m annoyed with the Pioneer purchase because I feel like nobody is actually working on making better DJ software for DJs. The whole DJ software industry feels like it’s entirely focused on internal corporate B.S.; it doesn’t feel like there’s any honest connection to real world customers. All I see are big corporate moves (great for the stock price), or new features that are more useful to the marketing department than actual DJs. Perhaps the shareholders are happy, but I think many average DJs are just really annoyed.

The most frustrating thing is that all the pieces are there, but nobody seems interested in putting them together. For example, I really just want to see the djay Pro or Serato interface on top of the Virtual DJ feature set. Will it take hard work? Yes, but it ain’t that hard! And it’s certainly not 10 years of requested-promised-but-never-delivered hard??? So us DJs are sitting left wondering what exactly is the problem? Why do the DJ software companies seem to be dragging their feet on customer requests???

I’ll pick on Serato this time, but all the other software have their own unique issues. So, one simple thing you can’t do in Serato is preview a track in the Library. It’s INSANE because it’s audio software that plays back audio files - being able to preview a track in the Library is CORE to the what the software is supposed to do. People have requested this for nearly 12 years, but they still won’t implement it. And it feels like a big F. You to the customer. It feels like “we know better what you want”. Oh, and here are STEMS so we can market the crap out of the software, even though 90% of what most DJs do has nothing to do with STEMS.

Now STEMS are great, but prioritizing STEMS over bread and butter DJ features, are what leaves a bad taste in my mouth - and all the DJ software companies do this over and over again.

Having said all that, I’m set and pretty happy with Djay Pro. I’ve worked around all the issues, but there are so many quality of life features that would take it from very good to great! But I’m not holding my breath on any of that."

Glad I'm not the only one noticing that all the internal corporate B.S. is having a very negative effect on the DJ industry as a whole!

Btw, it's official... I'm co-signing the term "Serato Refugee" as anyone who leaves Serato to join another DJ software platform due to this acquisition nightmare!!
Ragman 11:06 PM - 14 January, 2024
Quote:
Spent some time on Algoriddim's forum & came across this post...

Michael_Wisniewski
Jul '23

"But I’m annoyed with the Pioneer purchase because I feel like nobody is actually working on making better DJ software for DJs. The whole DJ software industry feels like it’s entirely focused on internal corporate B.S.; it doesn’t feel like there’s any honest connection to real world customers. All I see are big corporate moves (great for the stock price), or new features that are more useful to the marketing department than actual DJs. Perhaps the shareholders are happy, but I think many average DJs are just really annoyed.

The most frustrating thing is that all the pieces are there, but nobody seems interested in putting them together. For example, I really just want to see the djay Pro or Serato interface on top of the Virtual DJ feature set. Will it take hard work? Yes, but it ain’t that hard! And it’s certainly not 10 years of requested-promised-but-never-delivered hard??? So us DJs are sitting left wondering what exactly is the problem? Why do the DJ software companies seem to be dragging their feet on customer requests???

I’ll pick on Serato this time, but all the other software have their own unique issues. So, one simple thing you can’t do in Serato is preview a track in the Library. It’s INSANE because it’s audio software that plays back audio files - being able to preview a track in the Library is CORE to the what the software is supposed to do. People have requested this for nearly 12 years, but they still won’t implement it. And it feels like a big F. You to the customer. It feels like “we know better what you want”. Oh, and here are STEMS so we can market the crap out of the software, even though 90% of what most DJs do has nothing to do with STEMS.

Now STEMS are great, but prioritizing STEMS over bread and butter DJ features, are what leaves a bad taste in my mouth - and all the DJ software companies do this over and over again.

Having said all that, I’m set and pretty happy with Djay Pro. I’ve worked around all the issues, but there are so many quality of life features that would take it from very good to great! But I’m not holding my breath on any of that."

Glad I'm not the only one noticing that all the internal corporate B.S. is having a very negative effect on the DJ industry as a whole!

Btw, it's official... I'm co-signing the term "Serato Refugee" as anyone who leaves Serato to join another DJ software platform due to this acquisition nightmare!!

Well said... I just wish they would make the latest version for Windows have the same features as the latest version for Mac.
Ragman 11:07 PM - 14 January, 2024
DJay Pro that is...
DJMark 1:03 AM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
Perhaps the shareholders are happy, but I think many average DJs are just really annoyed.


I’m still “annoyed” (I think “offended” is a more precise term) by the absolutely needless disabling of older hardware in newer versions of software.
DJ STU-C 9:18 AM - 15 January, 2024
My only Caveat to that statement above, i wish people would learn to write in a polite and controlled manner to get their point across. When did it become the norm to use all this overly emotional and aggressive/negative language all the time. BS this and FU that, just speak in plain English and leave the emotions at the door.
Chino 9:03 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
I wish people would learn to write in a polite and controlled manner to get their point across.

Is 'corporate shenanigans' acceptable? For example... the DJ industry's internal 'corporate shenanigans' have alienated its customer base & stifled innovation. Companies and their CEO(s) are seeing record level profits all while the average end user pays more money for products with built in obsolescence.
nik39 9:08 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Perhaps the shareholders are happy, but I think many average DJs are just really annoyed.


I’m still “annoyed” (I think “offended” is a more precise term) by the absolutely needless disabling of older hardware in newer versions of software.

+1
nik39 9:12 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
, one simple thing you can’t do in Serato is preview a track in the Library. It’s INSANE because it’s audio software that plays back audio files - being able to preview a track in the Library is CORE to the what the software is supposed to do. People have requested this for nearly 12 years, but they still won’t implement it. And it feels like a big F. You to the customer. It feels like “we know better what you want”. Oh, and here are STEMS so we can market the crap out of the software, even though 90% of what most DJs do has nothing to do with STEMS.

-1

Never understood why you need a preview function - mind.. I'm coming from a vinyl background. Previewing meant - load the song onto the deck. Simple. Fool proven. I don't need another preview deck.
Not having the preview feature does my limit me at all.

Steams - different feature. From the first days of mixing I've dreamt of such a feature.

I think Serato does a good job of balancing features. And I am so happy that it is quite stable, easy to use, and that it does not do all the obscure things of vdj which I assume the majority of the users don't use.
Chino 9:16 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
And I am so happy that it is quite stable, easy to use

I definitely agree with this!^
DJ Marv the Maverick 10:05 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
For example... the DJ industry's internal 'corporate shenanigans' have alienated its customer base & stifled innovation.


There is no reason why there is no agreed standard for file attached basic performance data eg hot cues, loops, beatgrid in addition to normal metadata.

Like an ableton link
DjSyndic8 10:06 PM - 15 January, 2024
heres one thing we all missed, Serato doing this behind their loyal customers back,
not even a little consultation before they decided to go ahead with it.

message or a email, and then waited to see what our responses will be?

Serato has Given up on Serato, and just want to sell itself off, they feel like nothing else can be done about their software, since theyre number one, and where do you go from the number 1 spot?
DJ STU-C 10:19 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
heres one thing we all missed, Serato doing this behind their loyal customers back,
not even a little consultation before they decided to go ahead with it.

message or a email, and then waited to see what our responses will be?

Serato has Given up on Serato, and just want to sell itself off, they feel like nothing else can be done about their software, since theyre number one, and where do you go from the number 1 spot?


Exactly, you either keep striving to maintain that spot, or get lazy and start to sink. I think we all know which option was chosen.
DJ STU-C 10:21 PM - 15 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I wish people would learn to write in a polite and controlled manner to get their point across.

Is 'corporate shenanigans' acceptable? For example... the DJ industry's internal 'corporate shenanigans' have alienated its customer base & stifled innovation. Companies and their CEO(s) are seeing record level profits all while the average end user pays more money for products with built in obsolescence.


It’s not, but getting all shouty about it offers nothing, in fact every time I see that type of language I imagine the person on the other side of the keyboard and it’s never a pretty sight. I can’t imagine they are leading the charge with social skills, or chairing meetings with work colleagues etc.
DjSyndic8 12:22 AM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
heres one thing we all missed, Serato doing this behind their loyal customers back,
not even a little consultation before they decided to go ahead with it.

message or a email, and then waited to see what our responses will be?

Serato has Given up on Serato, and just want to sell itself off, they feel like nothing else can be done about their software, since theyre number one, and where do you go from the number 1 spot?


Exactly, you either keep striving to maintain that spot, or get lazy and start to sink. I think we all know which option was chosen.

I agree
Chino 1:43 AM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Heres one thing we all missed, Serato doing this behind their loyal customers back,
not even a little consultation before they decided to go ahead with it.

message or a email, and then waited to see what our responses will be?

Serato has given up on Serato, and just wants to sell itself off, they feel like nothing else can be done about their software, since theyre number one, and where do you go from the number 1 spot?

I agree with this but... maybe Serato feels that they don't owe us any explanation. Maybe we all are being too emotionally attached?(as mentioned above) Serato provides a DJ software, we pay for it & us it. End of business transaction. Thats it.
I always thought of Serato as family but based on their recent actions, Serato doesn't seem to regard its user base the same way.

I no longer look at Serato as the gold standard of the DJ community. I'm not expecting an explanation nor do I think I'm entitled to one.
DjSyndic8 2:28 AM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
I agree with this but... maybe Serato feels that they don't owe us any explanation. Maybe we all are being too emotionally attached?(as mentioned above) Serato provides a DJ software, we pay for it & us it. End of business transaction. Thats it.
I always thought of Serato as family but based on their recent actions, Serato doesn't seem to regard its user base the same way.

I no longer look at Serato as the gold standard of the DJ community. I'm not expecting an explanation nor do I think I'm entitled to one.


well said Chino
DJ STU-C 9:23 AM - 16 January, 2024
That family feel will also be completely eradicated once they get taken over by Alpha.
Chino 1:38 PM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Where do you go from the number 1 spot?

Off the top of my head, Serato could develop & release SDJ Pro embedded DJ controllers. Maybe release a dedicated controller for Serato Studio too?

On the desktop software side of things, Serato could...
1. Improve/overhaul SDJ Pro library management.
2. Completely overhaul the FX in SDJ Pro.
3. Add Apple Silicon Native Support.
4. Lower CPU usage.
5. Squash bugs.
6. Add a couple of user feature requests that are over a decade old.

There is always room for improvement!!
Chino 1:46 PM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
That family feel will also be completely eradicated once they get taken over by Alpha Theta.

I'm not ready to accept this reality just yet. I still have hope that Serato will wake up from this nightmare, and realize that they made a huge mistake before it's too late.
the SOUNDINSURGENT 8:27 PM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Where do you go from the number 1 spot?

Off the top of my head, Serato could develop & release SDJ Pro embedded DJ controllers. Maybe release a dedicated controller for Serato Studio too?

On the desktop software side of things, Serato could...
1. Improve/overhaul SDJ Pro library management.
2. Completely overhaul the FX in SDJ Pro.
3. Add Apple Silicon Native Support.
4. Lower CPU usage.
5. Squash bugs.
6. Add a couple of user feature requests that are over a decade old.

There is always room for improvement!!


Don't forget about that joke they call Serato Video....... How are they even allowed to sell that?!?!
Chino 10:16 PM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Don't forget about that joke they call Serato Video....... How are they even allowed to sell that?!?!

I'm VERY thankful for Mix Emergency! BIG SHOUT OUT to Nick!!
DJ Marv the Maverick 11:42 PM - 16 January, 2024
Quote:
Nick!!


nick for president
Res-Q 1:45 AM - 17 January, 2024
Nick should buy Serato :p
Hanginon 3:13 AM - 17 January, 2024
Quote:
, one simple thing you can’t do in Serato is preview a track in the Library. It’s INSANE because it’s audio software that plays back audio files - being able to preview a track in the Library is CORE to the what the software is supposed to do. People have requested this for nearly 12 years, but they still won’t implement it. And it feels like a big F. You to the customer. It feels like “we know better what you want”. Oh, and here are STEMS so we can market the crap out of the software, even though 90% of what most DJs do has nothing to do with STEMS.

+1
Chino 12:16 PM - 17 January, 2024
Quote:
Nick should buy Serato :p

+1000!!! Look what he did with Mix Emergency compared to Serato Video. Imagine what he could do for SDJ Pro. 🤯💪💪
Chino 12:20 PM - 17 January, 2024
Nick is officially my #1 draft pick as the new CEO/owner of Serato! 😉
nik39 12:02 AM - 19 January, 2024
😂
nik39 1:42 PM - 19 January, 2024
Oh wow...

There a few anonymous transmissions for that case:

comcom.govt.nz

Click on documents. You'll find anything there. From praises for the merger to "don't do this" mails!
DJ STU-C 2:52 PM - 19 January, 2024
Quote:
Oh wow...

There a few anonymous transmissions for that case:

comcom.govt.nz

Click on documents. You'll find anything there. From praises for the merger to "don't do this" mails!


The fanboyism on those anonymous submissions is hilarious... 3 more documents recently added though so thanks for sharing, ill take a read:)
Chino 4:28 PM - 19 January, 2024
I know the NZ commerce commission's primary objective is do what is most beneficial for NZ.
My concern is that this acquisition has larger lasting effects on the U.S. and world DJ community. I strongly urge the NZ commerce commission to ask us(the DJ community) directly how we feel about the acquisition of Serato.

Yes, we are an important part of this equation. Without us(customers), there would be no Serato or Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ). If all fails, we the U.S. DJ community have leverage. We are the largest DJ market in the world. Our voices will be heard. Together, we can leverage are financial strength by supporting other DJ software/hardware companies that listen to & respect their user base.

There is no need for me to send an anonymous letter to the NZ commerce commission because this is how I personally and publicly feel.

Respectfully,
-Chino
Chino 4:29 PM - 19 January, 2024
*leverage OUR financial strength
DJ STU-C 5:39 PM - 19 January, 2024
I think you can state whether you want to be anonymous or not, which if true makes all those letters and emails a bit weird, why hide your identity when showing either support or concern? id happily hand my name over to back up my claims, so unsure why so many are behind a wall of anonymity.
Chino 6:55 PM - 19 January, 2024
PUBLIC Version:
"b. ATC will not be incentivised to renew agreements with competing DJ hardware suppliers. [redacted], and inMusic never contemplated that Serato would not be independent.

c. Moreover, if ATC violates or terminates the agreement, inMusic would be entitled only to ordinary breach of contract remedies – not restoration of competition.

ii. Incentive:
1. inMusic competes closely with ATC. Although ATC is the clear market leader, inMusic is the second largest supplier of DJ hardware both in New Zealand and globally.
a. By cutting off inMusic’s access to Serato software, ATC will benefit from higher sales or prices, and stands to gain up to 20% market share by squeezing inMusic and all other competitors to exit the market.

2. ATC has a history of restricting competitors’ access to Rekordbox software and has refused to allow inMusic to use rekordbox with its hardware. Rekordbox has never been in any other company’s hardware.

3. ATC’s denials that it would not have the incentive to foreclose competition are simply incredible. ATC could more than make up for the loss of revenue from license fees paid by DJ hardware manufacturers through additional sales of its DJ hardware. The Commission should look at how ATC acts, not what they say. ATC would not pay over $100 million—which represents over a ten times multiple of Serato’s EBITDA—only to leave Serato’s business as is. ATC, as a public company, has an obligation to its shareholders to maximise profitability. Waiting ten years to payback its investment is highly unlikely."

I can only imagine what the PRIVATE un-redacted version has to say about this acquisition!
Chino 7:59 PM - 19 January, 2024
It has occurred to me that no one actually knows if Alpha Theta will do any of this.

Overall, these arguments are from inMusic's perspective. This is what inMusic would do IF the position were reversed & they were Alpha Theta.

It shows the true nature of multi-national corporations. Profits above everything.
DjSyndic8 10:59 PM - 19 January, 2024
Quote:
Oh wow...

There a few anonymous transmissions for that case:

comcom.govt.nz

Click on documents. You'll find anything there. From praises for the merger to "don't do this" mails!


wow
DJ STU-C 11:27 PM - 19 January, 2024
That last anonymous post is pretty much the first one I’ve seen not in support of it.

InMusic even reference the ‘unusual amount of favourable anonymous emails’ in their latest response, then use it to reference just how much brand loyalty is rife in DJ world.

I have to say some of the cringe wording used in them (pass the sick bucket) might actually work against them, I’m amazed by how many people have no idea when to avoid laying it on thick. They love to go all in don’t they.
Chino 8:49 PM - 20 January, 2024
Directly from the NZ commerce commission...

"We will give clearance to a proposed merger if we are satisfied that the merger is unlikely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition in a market."

Well based on that criteria alone, this merger/aquisition should be DENIED!!

Please ask yourself or anyone in the DJ industry if Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) acquiring Serato will lessen or increase competition?
DjSyndic8 2:42 AM - 21 January, 2024
Quote:
Directly from the NZ commerce commission...

"We will give clearance to a proposed merger if we are satisfied that the merger is unlikely to have the effect of substantially lessening competition in a market."

Well based on that criteria alone, this merger/aquisition should be DENIED!!

Please ask yourself or anyone in the DJ industry if Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) acquiring Serato will lessen or increase competition?


spot on Chino, NZ Commerce can see whats going on its not their first,
and if we as users can see it as well then they can too,

this is the classic Apple, facebook and google move, buy out the competition then slowely kill it and I'm glad The Commerce commission is doing something about it, Its keeping these companies in check.
Chino 3:16 AM - 26 January, 2024
March 8th, 2024 is the current decision date when the NZ commerce commission will decide IF they will allow the acquisition of Serato to Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ). So far, there have been two extensions.
comcom.govt.nz

"inMusic reiterates that ATC and Serato cannot be trusted to be forthcoming with the Commission. As these further examples show, the parties have tried at every turn to omit key details ostensibly in the hope that no one will contradict them".

I expected these types of shady actions from Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) but NOT from Serato?!

Yes, Serato is a business but as an industry leader, Serato also has a responsibility to set a positive example for the DJ industry. Recently, I find myself agreeing with inMusic?! WOW! You KNOW this acquisition is really a mess if that happens!! I just expected better from Serato in general.
DjSyndic8 3:44 AM - 26 January, 2024
Quote:
March 8th, 2024 is the current decision date when the NZ commerce commission will decide IF they will allow the acquisition of Serato to Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ). So far, there have been two extensions.
comcom.govt.nz

"inMusic reiterates that ATC and Serato cannot be trusted to be forthcoming with the Commission. As these further examples show, the parties have tried at every turn to omit key details ostensibly in the hope that no one will contradict them".

I expected these types of shady actions from Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) but NOT from Serato?!

Yes, Serato is a business but as an industry leader, Serato also has a responsibility to set a positive example for the DJ industry. Recently, I find myself agreeing with inMusic?! WOW! You KNOW this acquisition is really a mess if that happens!! I just expected better from Serato in general.

niiice
Hanginon 3:03 PM - 27 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
March 8th, 2024 is the current decision date when the NZ commerce commission will decide IF they will allow the acquisition of Serato to Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ). So far, there have been two extensions.
comcom.govt.nz

"inMusic reiterates that ATC and Serato cannot be trusted to be forthcoming with the Commission. As these further examples show, the parties have tried at every turn to omit key details ostensibly in the hope that no one will contradict them".

I expected these types of shady actions from Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) but NOT from Serato?!

Yes, Serato is a business but as an industry leader, Serato also has a responsibility to set a positive example for the DJ industry. Recently, I find myself agreeing with inMusic?! WOW! You KNOW this acquisition is really a mess if that happens!! I just expected better from Serato in general.

niiice


Ha! I here I thought it was always The Steve Millar Band that did "Take the Money and Run"!!
Big Pops 4:04 PM - 27 January, 2024
Serato needs new leadership, but not Alp[ha Theta , the lost their drive and totally forget about their customer base, don't forget Serato , WE MADE YOU INTO WHAT YOU ARE TODAY.
DjSyndic8 4:42 PM - 27 January, 2024
Quote:
Serato needs new leadership, but not Alp[ha Theta , the lost their drive and totally forget about their customer base, don't forget Serato , WE MADE YOU INTO WHAT YOU ARE TODAY.

word keepin it 100
DjSauce78 7:52 PM - 27 January, 2024
to thrive and grow. However, as an industry leader, there's also an expectation for Serato to maintain high ethical standards and set a positive example for the DJ community. The notion that they might be falling short of this, as suggested by the current controversy surrounding their potential acquisition by Alpha Theta (Pioneer DJ), is causing quite a stir. For more insights and developments on this situation, keep an eye on Yunglordfiness, where updates and discussions about the DJ industry's future, including this significant acquisition, are frequently shared. It's essential for the community to stay informed and engaged, especially when the actions of industry leaders could reshape the landscape of DJ technology and culture.
HellNegative1 8:07 PM - 27 January, 2024
What in the ChatGPT did I just read?
Ragman 8:32 PM - 27 January, 2024
:-)
Mutis 10:38 AM - 28 January, 2024
media1.tenor.com
SpinThis! 6:21 PM - 29 January, 2024
inMusic is going all scorched earth here... but let's say the deal doesn't go through like everyone wants. If Serato itself doesn't end up going bankrupt, if you were Serato, why you (voluntarily) want to work with inMusic anymore after all of this? Clearly there was some bad blood between these 2 companies...
DJ STU-C 6:26 PM - 29 January, 2024
Quote:
inMusic is going all scorched earth here... but let's say the deal doesn't go through like everyone wants. If Serato itself doesn't end up going bankrupt, if you were Serato, why you (voluntarily) want to work with inMusic anymore after all of this? Clearly there was some bad blood between these 2 companies...


And yet the latest Serato update from the 10th of December includes support for InMusic products.

serato.com

Perhaps InMusic are just showing genuine and relevant concerns for this takeover, largely based around AlphaTheta blatantly lying about the industry and their own hardware/software in the documentation they provided.
SpinThis! 6:38 PM - 29 January, 2024
Quote:
And yet the latest Serato update from the 10th of December includes support for InMusic products.

And why wouldn't it? Until the decision is made, it's going to be business as usual for both companies.

I love to know what was in those redacted portions of inMusic's responses.
DJ STU-C 7:22 PM - 29 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
And yet the latest Serato update from the 10th of December includes support for InMusic products.

And why wouldn't it? Until the decision is made, it's going to be business as usual for both companies.

I love to know what was in those redacted portions of inMusic's responses.


Every single comment of yours is literally all over the place, is there bad blood or isnt there? is it business as usual or isnt it? make a decision.

And let's not just focus on the redacted parts from one side, when there was huge swathes of redacted content on both. I know you have a massive hard on for InMusic and it's severely crippling your ability to look at this issue objectively, but please open your eyes and learn to see.
Chino 2:21 AM - 30 January, 2024
Quote:
AlphaTheta blatantly lying about the industry and their own hardware/software in the documentation they provided.

This^! It is an undisputed fact that Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) currently has the largest DJ hardware market share. Combine that with Serato's DJ software market share plus Rebordbox & Alpha Theta will have close to a 90% market share?! If that is not a 'monopoly' of the DJ industry then what is??

I don't care how 'small' or niche our DJ market is compared to other markets! Buying Serato for 100 million is NOT a small amount of money!! Saying that the world DJ market is small & niche to justify a total market share dominance is absurd & ridiculous!!!

Why does Alpha Theta feel the need to lie? We know the truth & hopefully so does the NZ commerce commission.
Chino 2:51 AM - 30 January, 2024
We need what is best for the DJ community. We NEED an independent Serato operating under new leadership(not Alpha Theta) with a strong vision for the future!!

This acquisition is only financially beneficial to the owner(s) of Serato, the CEO(s) & stock holders. Is Serato so financially devastated that they need to sell? If so, then the only benefit of this acquisition is that Serato will continue operating for now.
Chino 6:53 PM - 31 January, 2024
Quote:
If Serato itself doesn't end up going bankrupt, if you were Serato, why you (voluntarily) want to work with inMusic anymore after all of this?


Simple answer- business. Everyone continues to make money & it keeps end users(customers) happy. Please don't put that kind of energy out into the universe. There is no need to manifest a negative outcome for any company. I truly wish the best for Serato, inMusic Brand & yes- even Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ).

IMHO, a strong INDEPENDENT Serato(under new leadership) is in everyone's best interest. I hope inMusic Brand continues to make controllers for Serato. Hopefully InMusic will make some new controllers for Algoriddim DJ Pro AI too. I would also like a Rane, Denon or Numark branded controller that works with Rekordbox. @PioneerDJ @AlphaTheta

We need MORE DJ hardware/software choices & MORE companies involved in the DJ community. This will help fast track innovation & drive costs down.
djcrap 9:05 PM - 31 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
If Serato itself doesn't end up going bankrupt, if you were Serato, why you (voluntarily) want to work with inMusic anymore after all of this?


Simple answer- business. Everyone continues to make money & it keeps end users(customers) happy. Please don't put that kind of energy out into the universe. There is no need to manifest a negative outcome for any company. I truly wish the best for Serato, inMusic Brand & yes- even Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ).

IMHO, a strong INDEPENDENT Serato(under new leadership) is in everyone's best interest. I hope inMusic Brand continues to make controllers for Serato. Hopefully InMusic will make some new controllers for Algoriddim DJ Pro AI too. I would also like a Rane, Denon or Numark branded controller that works with Rekordbox. @PioneerDJ @AlphaTheta

We need MORE DJ hardware/software choices & MORE companies involved in the DJ community. This will help fast track innovation & drive costs down.


Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

Which means the only solution to this saga between inmusic and alpha theta or other brands and customers who want serato to stay independent would be for Serato as a company to increase licensing fees to all partners of serato software. And also for Serato to introduce a customer license fees for serato djpro on major releases and upgrade. Basically just like how ableton or mix emergency does by letting customers pay a small fee for a different serial number on major releases or upgrades.

In other words a licensing fee increase to serato partners and customers chipping in on major releases or upgrades will be the only solution to serato staying independent.

Excuse my jackass mode: if customers don’t like it and yet serato is on the verge of bankruptcy because it’s not making a profit due to the fact that we ( all jackasses like me ) all like free upgrades without thinking about where the money for R&D plus paying serato employees will come from. oh well alpha theta shouldn’t be blocked from buying serato. Lmao what baffles me is I haven’t seen or heard of inmusic is counter offer to serato to buy!

End of rant

Thanks for the
Troll
In advance . 😂 😂😂😂
Chino 10:35 PM - 31 January, 2024
Quote:
The reason Serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain Serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

Based on the financial disclosure here comcom.govt.nz & what Alpha Theta is willing to pay for Serato($100 Million NZ), it doesn't seem like Serato is on the verge of going bankrupt. I could be wrong, tho.

Quote:
In other words a licensing fee increase to Serato partners and customers chipping in on major releases or upgrades will be the only solution to serato staying independent.

I would gladly pay more for major point releases if it meant that Serato remained independent.
HellNegative1 1:49 AM - 1 February, 2024
With the exception of battle mixers and controllers, most users already have to pay for club kit to be able to use Serato with flagship devices (Pioneer DJM A9 for ex). So, that idea is not out of the realm of possibility.
nik39 9:41 AM - 4 February, 2024
Quote:
Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

A whole lot of assumptions.
DjSyndic8 11:14 AM - 4 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

A whole lot of assumptions.

what choice do we have, Seratos said nothing? crickets I hear
djcrap 12:57 AM - 5 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

A whole lot of assumptions.

what choice do we have, Seratos said nothing? crickets I hear


This
djcrap 1:22 AM - 5 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

A whole lot of assumptions.

😂😂😂 so is this entire thread! Unless serato management issues a press release to clear up the assumptions of why they sold.

Nik39 are you still a moderator on this forum ! I remember back in the scratchlive era you were one. Which means I can assume you have inside info to why serato is selling. Then misquote you 😂😂😂 see what I did there……. Warning fall into nik39 is trap on your own risk 😂😂😂(Nick39 = king of misquotes plus grammar police)

Lmao
djcrap 1:25 AM - 5 February, 2024
Jokes aside even google is making assumptions that alpha theta owns serato.


Just type in who owns serato into the browser. Lmao
DjSyndic8 1:58 AM - 5 February, 2024
Quote:
Jokes aside even google is making assumptions that alpha theta owns serato.


Just type in who owns serato into the browser. Lmao

wow
Ragman 4:52 AM - 5 February, 2024
Aww man Google! It's a done deal. :-(
vboyd666 4:15 PM - 9 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lmao but the reason serato is selling maybe it’s bankrupt or on the verge of going bankrupt. Maybe because funds gained from license fees from inmusic, Roland, and alpha theta e.t.c . That money is no longer enough to sustain serato operations like being able to pay employees and also fund research and development.

A whole lot of assumptions.

what choice do we have, Seratos said nothing? crickets I hear


There's nothing to report on until New Zealand rules that the purchase can happen.
DJ STU-C 7:41 PM - 9 February, 2024
New document

comcom.govt.nz
Chino 1:10 AM - 10 February, 2024
I have to give credit to the NZ commerence commission! NZ addressed all the issues with this merger(acquisition) & in most cases agrees with us!! They see right thru all of Alpha Theta's lies!!! NZ is asking for more info so they can make a final determination...

"We would like to receive submissions and supporting evidence from ATC, Serato and other interested parties on the issues raised in this SoI. We request responses by close of business on 21 February 2024, including a confidential and a public version of any submission made. All submissions received will be published on our website with appropriate redactions. All parties will have the opportunity to cross-submit on the public versions of submissions received from other parties. Cross submissions should be received by close of business on 28 February 2024.

If you would like to make a submission but face difficulties in doing so within the timeframe, please ensure that you register your interest with us at
registrar@comcom.govt.nz so that we can work with you to accommodate your
needs where possible.
Chino 1:47 AM - 10 February, 2024
Directly from the NZ commerce commission...

"The fact that the Parties have included clauses within the SPA that seek to prevent
ATC from refusing to allow Serato to deal with other DJ hardware providers may
suggest that, absent these clauses, ATC would have the ability and incentive to do so.
If that is the case, ATC may be incentivised to seek means to inhibit DJ hardware rivals that circumvent the clauses. Not withstanding our preliminary concerns over
the enforcement of the relevant clauses in the SPA, we note that there are a number of ways ATC could act against the interests of rival hardware manufacturers, whilst
still remaining in compliance with its obligations under the SPA."

In plain english, Serato has a clause in the contract to make sure it can still provide SDJ Pro software to Alpha Theta competitors (Rane, Denon, Roland, Reloop etc) for a certain amount of time. IF Alpha Theta was operating in good faith there would be no need for this clause to be in the contract in the first place. The NZ commerce commission then describes all the ways Alpha Theta can attempt to hurt competition while still "technically" following the guidlines of the contract clause?!
Chino 1:56 AM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
New document

comcom.govt.nz

Btw, BIG SHOUT OUT to DJ STU-C! I appreciate that you are keeping us up to date & informed!!
I know I've said this before but the more I read about this acquistion, the less trust I have in Alpha Theta!!!
Ragman 3:18 AM - 10 February, 2024
Thank goodness Serato is an NZ business. If Serato was a U.S. small business, AlphaTheta would have had their way from the beginning.
Chino 3:46 AM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
Thank goodness Serato is a NZ business. If Serato was a U.S. small business, AlphaTheta would have had their way from the beginning.

I was just thinking the same thing. RESPECT to NZ!!
DjSyndic8 8:50 AM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
New document

comcom.govt.nz

Btw, BIG SHOUT OUT to DJ STU-C! I appreciate that you are keeping us up to date & informed!!
I know I've said this before but the more I read about this acquistion, the less trust I have in Alpha Theta!!!


Hell yeah
Mutis 10:18 AM - 10 February, 2024
The question could be “what it will happen if they don’t deal?”

How could be affect Serato if the sale is related to its viability as business?
Chino 1:21 PM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
How could it affect Serato if the sale is related to it's viability as business?

This question has also been addressed by the NZ commerce commission. From what I read & the financial disclosures, Serato would continue operating as an independent company if the sale doesn't go thru. It's business as usual.

InMusic Brand made a strong point that Alpha Theta would not have offered 100 million NZ if Serato was having financial problems.
DJ STU-C 5:24 PM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
New document

comcom.govt.nz

Btw, BIG SHOUT OUT to DJ STU-C! I appreciate that you are keeping us up to date & informed!!
I know I've said this before but the more I read about this acquistion, the less trust I have in Alpha Theta!!!


🙌, no probs, I think its important for us all to use this info when discussing it. too many people (mainly outside of this forum) making a lot of claims on the internet about it without doing their research, which is poor especially seeing as its all there to read.
Ragman 5:47 PM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
[...]

InMusic Brand made a strong point that Alpha Theta would not have offered 100 million NZ if Serato was having financial problems.

That actually make sense. Why you invest in a failing company.
DJ STU-C 6:01 PM - 10 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
[...]

InMusic Brand made a strong point that Alpha Theta would not have offered 100 million NZ if Serato was having financial problems.

That actually make sense. Why you invest in a failing company.


Or more specifically, why invest that much... I get buying up a failing company to turn it around, but you're not gambling 100m on it are you.
Ragman 6:06 PM - 10 February, 2024
Exactly...
Mutis 6:18 PM - 10 February, 2024
Serato solvency is one thing but its profitability is another. My concerns are how it will affect commercial strategy and what’s in their minds ATM too.

Is Serato interested in being dilluted inside AlphaTheta or it isn’t the plan and they have signed keep alive as turntablism solution…?

I see what gets AT but I’m not sure about Serato gain. I can only see “get the money and run” due AT being the inevitable (and greedy) standard.

What do you think or extract from the info available, guys?
Chino 4:00 PM - 12 February, 2024
Quote:
I see what gets AT but I’m not sure about Serato gain. I can only see “get the money and run” due AT being the inevitable (and greedy) standard.

The owner(s) of Serato & CEO(s) involved get a huge payday. Thats it. This is their exit strategy. Serato's acquisition will have little to no benefit for us (end users/consumers). Unfortunately, it will probably also lead to layoffs of Serato devs too.

Even if you try to look at this in a positive manner, there is no way that a company will pay the continual development of two DJ softwares that essentially do the same thing. In the long run, either Rekordbox or Serato will be merged and/or shelved.

Ideally, I would love if Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) made a Serato embedded controller, mixer or stand a lone deck. I would also like a Serato Studio stand a lone remix device. Is this realistically going to happen? Is Alpha Theta the kind of company that releases products for the benefit of the DJ community at a fair price? We ALL know what type of company Alpha Theta is based on their actions.
Mutis 9:49 PM - 12 February, 2024
I see… I’m not sure about Digital Djing field itself. Aside spleeter stems seems a bit stagnated and this last “revolution” came from outside the field itself (soundcloud).


About embeddimg technologies my gut says “not gonna happen soon”. Serato (and Traktor) were very x86 centric and ARM transition get them offguard. They probably will jump into iPads when Apple put the proper tools to port desktop into touch apps or directly when they release a convertible macOS which do that UI translation for them. They (Serato/NI) don’t seem willing to do that effort meanwhile laptop form factor keeps being the most used by djs. The same applies for embed solutions. Congatec cpu boards (akais, maschine+, denons…) are limited for certain tasks (and linux based) and Pioneer technology (Cdj3000) is anjoke against what iPads can do nowadays and what could do next year. The upgrading cycle of Mseries chips makes standalones very risky even these were the less risky bet… maybe cdj3000 get stems in the future or maybe (even being the most powerful chip from Pioneer as they stated) don’t because can’t. Denons+ are getting them but in the low quality that any Serato user will accept now they have one of the best quality options.

I will love to be proved wrong but my gut says “not worth the effort for the revenue flow”.

Then, even if Serato can handle to deliver something like that…

What do you need from standalones that actual solutions can’t? Let’s say denons/akais or even toraiz line.
Aside quality in stems and timestretching…?

I will love to see some products from Serato like these you describe and others like pending the bridge/mixtape features lost in time… but will djs use them? Pay for them?

Certain tasks are more suitable just for a mouse and studio production. Make them available for realtime performing (live looping, stem mixing, tr sequencers, Flips…) doesn’t make them a winning horse from investment perspective. Even the Culture itself moves so fast and some tastes become nichey faster than users could end to pay for features and bills…

We know what was the past of djing but are we sure what would it be its future?
Chino 3:46 AM - 14 February, 2024
Quote:
What do you need from standalones that actual solutions can’t?

I dont want to deal with laptops anymore. I rather have a dedicated device like a Prime 4+ that runs Serato with moving platters.
Chino 3:48 AM - 14 February, 2024
*that runs SDJ Pro instead of Engine.
DJ STU-C 8:16 AM - 14 February, 2024
Quote:
*that runs SDJ Pro instead of Engine.


you should look at giving Engine another try, its probably a world away from whatever you tried previously with all the updates. My Prime 2 was on 1.6 when i bought it, within in 2 weeks i got upgraded to 2.0 and have been getting more and more features since.
Mutis 9:54 AM - 14 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
What do you need from standalones that actual solutions can’t?

I dont want to deal with laptops anymore. I rather have a dedicated device like a Prime 4+ that runs Serato with moving platters.


I understand you don’t want a preparation outside the standalone, right?

IDK too much about Engine btw but it makes sense.

Thanks for sharing.
DJ STU-C 10:30 AM - 14 February, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What do you need from standalones that actual solutions can’t?

I dont want to deal with laptops anymore. I rather have a dedicated device like a Prime 4+ that runs Serato with moving platters.


I understand you don’t want a preparation outside the standalone, right?

IDK too much about Engine btw but it makes sense.

Thanks for sharing.


Engine offers the ability to play non analysed tracks but the reality is you are far better managing your library in the desktop app and exporting it. Literally every single library 'issue' i see on the Engine forum is people who are doing some weird leftfield process for getting their music onto the device, and they are never willing to move from that process so its never resolved.
Chino 12:38 PM - 14 February, 2024
Quote:
Engine offers the ability to play non analysed tracks but the reality is you are far better managing your library in the desktop app and exporting it.

The export process & having to use the desktop app to manage my music library is why I stopped using Engine. I experienced constant freezes & crashes.

IMHO, in order to win over Serato & Rekordbox uses, Denon Prime needs to be able to read existing libraries without the need for an external desktop app. The process needs to be as easy & seemless as possible. I need to be able to plug in a thumb drive or an external SSD filled with my Serato music library & Engine just reads it with no issues. Let the analyze process happen the first time the USB thumb drive is plugged into the hardware device & thats it.

I will probably try Engine again in the future once it matures & it is built into a hardware device with moving platters. I tried the Prime 4 but I was not a fan of the platters at all. To me they felt very heavy.
Chino 1:05 PM - 14 February, 2024
* in order to win over Serato & Rekordbox USERS.

It amazes me that companies have (100s of) millions of dollars to spend on buying each other but no money for a simple forum edit button. No money to add features their customers have been asking years for. No money to hire additional devs. No money to fund R&D for embedded technology or dedicated hardware devices.

Yet, somehow they always find the money to please the owner(s), CEO(s), investors & stock holders??!!
HellNegative1 2:12 PM - 14 February, 2024
Denon devices do allow you to use your rekordbox USB.
The SC5000M and SC6000M have moving platters.

Which version of Engine Desktop was giving you freezing and crashes? The memory leak issue was fixed a little over 20 versions ago.
DJ STU-C 2:14 PM - 14 February, 2024
I honestly don't think they are ever going to do that, its essentially asking them to spend all their dev time worrying about a competitors product, and pandering to that competitor whilst never getting anything in return. No company in their right mind is going to plough loads of money into catering for people who want to use a different product.

For what its worth ive been using Engine desktop solely to organise my music for over 2 years now with pretty much zero issues. i also use Serato and Rekordbox for when i need them and run all 3 concurrently, with the exact same library setup across the board. I find Engine desktop no different to any of the others, aside from not being able to sort missing tracks (something which doesn't actually bother me personally as i dont have any).
DJ Marv the Maverick 6:02 PM - 15 February, 2024
Quote:
need to be able to plug in a thumb drive or an external SSD filled with my Serato music library & Engine


Someone will plug in an 8TB drive with 300k tracks and expect the players to manage this.

I feel those same issues apply to CDJ owners…needing to export to playback.

BTW Engine DJ has come a long way and constantly improving.

At home - I’m mostly practicing on Engine DJ. Quicker to start the decks and jump on Tidal/Remote play from laptop on same wifi network

At Gigs - Serato and whatever equipment the bar/club has.
Chino 7:48 PM - 15 February, 2024
Quote:
Someone will plug in an 8TB drive with 300k tracks and expect the players to manage this.

That WOULD be me! LOL!! My library is not quite that large (4TB SSD that is half full). For me, a simple export/import workflow ranks right up there with reliability.

Quote:
Which version of Engine Desktop was giving you freezing and crashes?

It was VERY early into the Engine development. I believe it was 1.5 or 1.6 and I was using a Denon MCx8000 controller. I had such a horrible experience with Engine that I'm STILL shell shocked from it?!
Chino 3:21 PM - 28 February, 2024
March 8th is around the corner. The NZ commerce commission is still reviewing all the info & a decision *should be made shortly.

"At this stage, we consider that the proposed acquisition raises concerns that the merged entity would have the ability and incentive to use its market power in the DJ software market to foreclose its rivals in the DJ hardware market, and that such conduct could substantially lessen competition. As noted earlier, ATC states that the terms within the SPA (clause) preclude ATC from refusing to allow Serato to partner with other DJ hardware providers. These clauses last for [redacted]. We are investigating
whether the proposed acquisition may be likely to substantially lessen competition
within the next [redacted]".
DjSyndic8 6:33 AM - 29 February, 2024
Quote:
March 8th is around the corner. The NZ commerce commission is still reviewing all the info & a decision *should be made shortly.

"At this stage, we consider that the proposed acquisition raises concerns that the merged entity would have the ability and incentive to use its market power in the DJ software market to foreclose its rivals in the DJ hardware market, and that such conduct could substantially lessen competition. As noted earlier, ATC states that the terms within the SPA (clause) preclude ATC from refusing to allow Serato to partner with other DJ hardware providers. These clauses last for [redacted]. We are investigating
whether the proposed acquisition may be likely to substantially lessen competition
within the next [redacted]".


niice thanks Chino
DJ STU-C 7:19 AM - 29 February, 2024
There’s been no documents updated since the 7th of Feb one, and no documents posted at all on the U.K. Gov site as of yet.
DjSyndic8 11:28 AM - 29 February, 2024
Quote:
There’s been no documents updated since the 7th of Feb one, and no documents posted at all on the U.K. Gov site as of yet.


oh
DJ STU-C 4:34 PM - 4 March, 2024
UK GOV site updated today, Investigation commencing.

www.gov.uk

3 more documents added to the NZ commerce site.

comcom.govt.nz
Chino 7:46 PM - 4 March, 2024
QUOTE: "As a participant in the New Zealand technology sector and specifically in technology startups, I feel that if the proposed acquisition is not approved, it will send a very negative message to the New Zealand technology industry.

New Zealand should be embracing any chance we have to help founders and investors make an exit so that they can reinvest funds into new local ventures, and create more opportunity for New Zealanders. Not allowing these exits will simply drive innovation off-shore and will discourage overseas investment into locally grown ideas."

This assumes that Serato's founders/investors(owners) want to reinvest in NZ. Maybe the founders/investors just want to do whatever they want with the money by not working- instead retiring to enjoy life?? This acquisition has always been about the exit strategy. It is NOT in the best interests of the DJ community at all. The blatant lies depicting the merger to be beneficial for us(DJs/consumers) is pure marketing fluff!

DON'T insult the intelligence of the DJ community that made Serato rich & successful!!
DJ STU-C 8:39 PM - 4 March, 2024
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.
HellNegative1 8:42 PM - 4 March, 2024
Quote:
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.


Wait, there’s waffles? I want waffles. Waffles are delicious!
DJ STU-C 8:45 PM - 4 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.


Wait, there’s waffles? I want waffles. Waffles are delicious!


Definitely a lot more palatable than the shit in that anonymous document 🤣
HellNegative1 8:49 PM - 4 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.


Wait, there’s waffles? I want waffles. Waffles are delicious!


Definitely a lot more palatable than the shit in that anonymous document 🤣


I honestly avoid the anonymous docs on stuff like this. It’s never anything worthwhile.
DJ STU-C 8:55 PM - 4 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.


Wait, there’s waffles? I want waffles. Waffles are delicious!


Definitely a lot more palatable than the shit in that anonymous document 🤣


I honestly avoid the anonymous docs on stuff like this. It’s never anything worthwhile.


Yeah 100%, fanboys be fanboyin
WildcardX 12:29 PM - 5 March, 2024
I just decided to check to see if there was any video with OP showing off the Hercules T7, like they usually do when new hardware is released and interestingly their last video on their YouTube channel was 3 months ago. 🤔
DJ STU-C 1:59 PM - 5 March, 2024
Quote:
I just decided to check to see if there was any video with OP showing off the Hercules T7, like they usually do when new hardware is released and interestingly their last video on their YouTube channel was 3 months ago. 🤔


Oh yeah, well spotted. None of the other recent additions seem to be on there either.
nik39 11:01 PM - 5 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Hahaha yeah I read that waffle and had a chuckle. It doesn’t even mean anything lol.


Wait, there’s waffles? I want waffles. Waffles are delicious!

We all crave for waffles..

youtube.com < click
DJ STU-C 11:15 PM - 5 March, 2024
Wait til Friday, it’ll be waffle all around.
Chino 2:39 PM - 6 March, 2024
Quote:

We all crave waffles...

youtube.com < click

😂😂🧇🧇
Chino 8:50 PM - 7 March, 2024
Well, the decision date has been extended AGAIN to April 17th, 2024.

comcom.govt.nz
DJ STU-C 8:59 PM - 7 March, 2024
Lol, I honestly thought it would be final by tomorrow. Crazy.

Wonder if the case handlers are on commission haha.
SpinThis! 9:26 PM - 7 March, 2024
Quote:
Wonder if the case handlers are on commission haha.

They are a government entity...

FWIW inMusic certainly knows how to play the game. Every day that this drags out, helps inMusic and hurts Alpha Theta regardless of the final decision.

Get the bureaucrats to delay the announcement as much as possible so they can continue readying whatever they are planning moving forward.
DJ STU-C 9:33 PM - 7 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Wonder if the case handlers are on commission haha.

They are a government entity...

FWIW inMusic certainly knows how to play the game. Every day that this drags out, helps inMusic and hurts Alpha Theta regardless of the final decision.

Get the bureaucrats to delay the announcement as much as possible so they can continue readying whatever they are planning moving forward.


Very true… to be fair I’ve read every single document so far and both sides are guilty of massively complicating the whole issue, I’m not surprised they’re struggling to come to a conclusion. I’m confused and I understand the scene and market, those people don’t have a clue.
Chino 10:52 PM - 8 March, 2024
Quote:
I’m not surprised they’re struggling to come to a conclusion. I’m confused and I understand the scene and market

Either way a decision needs to be made in order for the DJ community to move forward. IMHO, I'd rather see these companies invest their time & money into R&D to help fast track innovation. Instead, time & money is wasted on litigation & consultants.
DjSyndic8 1:30 AM - 9 March, 2024
Quote:
Either way a decision needs to be made in order for the DJ community to move forward. IMHO, I'd rather see these companies invest their time & money into R&D to help fast track innovation. Instead, time & money is wasted on litigation & consultants.


one of many reasons why a company would sell is maybe they're tired (of being Number 1 lol) maybe they want a fresh perspective with a new owner,

but this is different your're selling a company to the competition, so theres no guarantee that there will be new innovations, but instead Serato has been bought to slowly fade it out of existence and make Alphatheta and Pioneer the number one brand and to dominate the DJ industry, pretty much pushing Serato users to use Rekordbox,

I would rather use DJay Pro then use RekordBox!
anyways thats my thoughts:)
Chino 10:48 AM - 11 March, 2024
Quote:
I would rather use DJay Pro then use RekordBox!

+1!
Big Pops 1:46 PM - 11 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I would rather use DJay Pro then use RekordBox!

+1!

I would also rather use DJay pro, but the lack of support for controllers is an issue, that being said I started using RekordBox and I must say it has some very nice features.
At the end I still prefer Serato UI and how it works.
Chino 3:32 PM - 13 March, 2024
Quote:
I would also rather use DJay pro, but the lack of support for controllers is an issue

I agree. DJay Pro needs to address this asap! We need a viable alternative to Serato.
SpinThis! 6:09 PM - 13 March, 2024
Quote:
I agree. DJay Pro needs to address this asap! We need a viable alternative to Serato.

FYI make sure you visit DJay's discussion board and let them know which hardware you want supported. From the discussions happening over there, they are working on more hardware support for 2024, we'll see what shakes out.
Mutis 8:50 PM - 13 March, 2024
It’s not only an issue with Djay Pro but iOS/iPadOS not allowing advanced drivers aside class compliant devices (or requiring mfi license/fee to allow those drivers inside the app itself like Traktor dj app did with z1, s2/4). Almost Djay Pro // DjPlayer have midi learn mapping…
The light at the end of the tunnel is DriverKit and M1/2/3 chips being improved versions of iPad Pro chips so some hope in the future that changes. Obviously meanwhile mac based apps such Serato will get ported into M-Series natively with full specs support after Rosetta 2 becomes legacy (we are still not there) so as usual…

Said that I will advice using whatever already in the market instead waiting for future deliverings.
DjSyndic8 6:43 AM - 14 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I agree. DJay Pro needs to address this asap! We need a viable alternative to Serato.

FYI make sure you visit DJay's discussion board and let them know which hardware you want supported. From the discussions happening over there, they are working on more hardware support for 2024, we'll see what shakes out.


this has been an ongoing issue and pretty much everyones let them know about this but DJay Pro hasnt acted on it
DJ Stygma 12:52 PM - 14 March, 2024
Quote:
It’s not only an issue with Djay Pro but iOS/iPadOS not allowing advanced drivers aside class compliant devices (or requiring mfi license/fee to allow those drivers inside the app itself like Traktor dj app did with z1, s2/4). Almost Djay Pro // DjPlayer have midi learn mapping…
The light at the end of the tunnel is DriverKit and M1/2/3 chips being improved versions of iPad Pro chips so some hope in the future that changes. Obviously meanwhile mac based apps such Serato will get ported into M-Series natively with full specs support after Rosetta 2 becomes legacy (we are still not there) so as usual…

Said that I will advice using whatever already in the market instead waiting for future deliverings.


But doesn't that mean they should be able to get the hardware running with MacOS?

I have Midi Mapped my Rev5 to DJay pro, but the jog screens don't work nor do the channel levels.
SpinThis! 5:40 PM - 14 March, 2024
Quote:
this has been an ongoing issue and pretty much everyones let them know about this but DJay Pro hasnt acted on it

They are a small team. Give 'em a break.

Quote:
It’s not only an issue with Djay Pro but iOS/iPadOS not allowing advanced drivers aside class compliant devices

Not sure what iOS drivers have to do with the conversation? There's definitely technical reasons that you pointed out on why some devices don't work on mobile devices versus macOS but that shouldn't stop Algoriddim from supporting a device on the platform where they technically are able to do so.

I think people see the Mac and iOS as running on the same chips so they think it should be easy to do.... but Apple's dev platform isn't just "click this button and it'll spit out apps for iPad OS, macOS, iOS and VisionOS." They are getting closer to that though...

Quote:
But doesn't that mean they should be able to get the hardware running with MacOS? I have Midi Mapped my Rev5 to DJay pro, but the jog screens don't work nor do the channel levels.

Yes, ditto with my S11. This has always been the issue with 3rd party platform support.

As Steve Jobs liked to say, time has a way to solving this sorts of issues but people don't seem very patient to wait.
Mutis 8:30 PM - 14 March, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
this has been an ongoing issue and pretty much everyones let them know about this but DJay Pro hasnt acted on it

They are a small team. Give 'em a break.

Quote:
It’s not only an issue with Djay Pro but iOS/iPadOS not allowing advanced drivers aside class compliant devices

Not sure what iOS drivers have to do with the conversation? There's definitely technical reasons that you pointed out on why some devices don't work on mobile devices versus macOS but that shouldn't stop Algoriddim from supporting a device on the platform where they technically are able to do so.

I think people see the Mac and iOS as running on the same chips so they think it should be easy to do.... but Apple's dev platform isn't just "click this button and it'll spit out apps for iPad OS, macOS, iOS and VisionOS." They are getting closer to that though...

Quote:
But doesn't that mean they should be able to get the hardware running with MacOS? I have Midi Mapped my Rev5 to DJay pro, but the jog screens don't work nor do the channel levels.

Yes, ditto with my S11. This has always been the issue with 3rd party platform support.

As Steve Jobs liked to say, time has a way to solving this sorts of issues but people don't seem very patient to wait.


Let me try again…

Class compliant devices can be mapped. Advanced driver (like Roland dj or NI or … anything which requires a dedicated driver from vendor) require Apple allowing them. That has 2 main issues/sides.
1- Driver compatible with ARM/M-series (so iOS/iPadOS/M123 devices). X86 ones don’t work as is and couldn’t be bypassed by Rosseta 2 which converts x86 apps like a pseudovirtualization (if you have used parallels it’s similar) but doesn’t work for physical layer related to peripherals so it requires dedicated driver for the new chip platform.
2- Apple allowing these drivers in iOS/iPadOS devices which until DriverKit (still not fully implemented) was only possible by mFi program (made for iPad)
mfi.apple.com

MFi program require, aside partnershipping with Apple with its fee, the driver implemented inside the app and aproved by Apple at each update. Who should pay for that? Hardware developer or software host? It’s like Serato Official (or whatever is called) or “Rekordbox only” (like ddj200) etc.
Algoriddim need to get approved each single new hardware requiring dedicated driver throught mFi program (that’s why some controllers like Phillips m1x get even a splash screen when you plug them into Djay). That could change when Apple fully implement DriverKit and explain the new guidelines but afaik you can’t just download a dmg and install your controller driver if your brand gear has it ready for iPad/M1chips. It’s like aggregated audio devices. You can’t on iOS/iPadOS (yet) just core audio class compliant devices.

The light at the end of the tunnel (as I said) is M1 macs getting compatibility for desktop peripherals because these could be “ported” easily to iPadOS since the hard side will be there but only Apple controls that process. Algoriddim can’t force Apple or include third party developers code inside their app or they will not able to get upload to appstore for security reasons (Apple argues). Apple controls that process with class compliant (external standard), mFi (internal rules) and it’s starting to change it throught DriverKit (new internal standard)

developer.apple.com

developer.apple.com

This explain why external screens or whatever not class compliant will not be available until Apple let devs fully implement DriverKit. I expect Algoriddim going implementing the most they can step by step over time but it also requires partnershipping and hand to hand with hardware developers.

I will look deeper into actual state of DriverKit and latest iPadOS versions to see how is going and what to expect nowadays and “near” future btw…

Hope I made my point more clear.

Cheers!
SpinThis! 8:52 PM - 14 March, 2024
Quote:
This explain why external screens or whatever not class compliant will not be available until Apple let devs fully implement DriverKit. I expect Algoriddim going implementing the most they can step by step over time but it also requires partnershipping and hand to hand with hardware developers.

While I appreciate the write-up, you still haven't explained why DriverKit is holding up macOS development. 2 separate platforms, 2 separate issues really. As you mentioned, on iOS, the driver is contained in the app. On a Mac, developers can use either system extensions or DriverKit.

FWIW Atomix over at Virtual DJ have gotten waveforms to work on some hardware already, including the DJM-S11.
djkurve 5:14 PM - 2 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I would rather use DJay Pro then use RekordBox!

+1!


Or Virtual DJ
Chino 2:03 PM - 12 April, 2024
SHOTS FIRED! The new submissions are getting SPICY!!
comcom.govt.nz

QUOTE: "As much as our friends at inMusic would try to have you believe that Serato DJ is a “must have”, there is no actual evidence to this effect. They cite their own tepid effort to replace Serato DJ with an offering of their own as evidence that our user base is unshakeable, but for that to be valid, they would have to have spent some money on software developers and develop a commitment to quality software. You don’t have to search the internet for long to see why people didn’t switch to EngineDJ in droves, just read their own community forum — the software simply isn’t as reliable. But I will speak more on the subject of “home brand” software in section 3."

QUOTE: "The unlikelihood of foreclosure of hardware rivals: Both economic and contractual factors make it extremely unlikely that the merged entity would have the ability or incentive to foreclose access to Serato’s software to competing hardware providers. Not only would such a move be economically irrational, destroying a core part of Serato’s business model, but it is also prohibited until 31 December 2028 under the acquisition agreement."

The fact that Serato had to add the foreclosure clause in the first place says that they KNOW Alpha Theta has every intent on foreclosing on their competition.

RESPECT to AJ Wilderland! I might not agree with everything he stated BUT he was man enough to submit his name & beliefs for everyone to see.
Chino 2:25 PM - 12 April, 2024
I stand by my statements that this acquisition has never been for the benefit of the DJ community. It's an exit strategy. Once the agreement for the period of the earn-out has been met, Serato is over as we know it.

R.I.P. Serato 1998 - December 31st 2028.
DjSyndic8 4:33 PM - 12 April, 2024
Quote:
SHOTS FIRED! The new submissions are getting SPICY!!
comcom.govt.nz

QUOTE: "As much as our friends at inMusic would try to have you believe that Serato DJ is a “must have”, there is no actual evidence to this effect. They cite their own tepid effort to replace Serato DJ with an offering of their own as evidence that our user base is unshakeable, but for that to be valid, they would have to have spent some money on software developers and develop a commitment to quality software. You don’t have to search the internet for long to see why people didn’t switch to EngineDJ in droves, just read their own community forum — the software simply isn’t as reliable. But I will speak more on the subject of “home brand” software in section 3."

QUOTE: "The unlikelihood of foreclosure of hardware rivals: Both economic and contractual factors make it extremely unlikely that the merged entity would have the ability or incentive to foreclose access to Serato’s software to competing hardware providers. Not only would such a move be economically irrational, destroying a core part of Serato’s business model, but it is also prohibited until 31 December 2028 under the acquisition agreement."

The fact that Serato had to add the foreclosure clause in the first place says that they KNOW Alpha Theta has every intent on foreclosing on their competition.

RESPECT to AJ Wilderland! I might not agree with everything he stated BUT he was man enough to submit his name & beliefs for everyone to see.


wow


Quote:
I stand by my statements that this acquisition has never been for the benefit of the DJ community. It's an exit strategy. Once the agreement for the period of the earn-out has been met, Serato is over as we know it.

R.I.P. Serato 1998 - December 31st 2028.



100% agree
DJ STU-C 4:59 PM - 12 April, 2024
As an extensive user of both Serato and Engine, i find that petty swipe to be pretty pathetic. Citing whiny trolls and clueless stubborn ranters who post on the Engine forum as evidence their software isn’t reliable is poor form.

The only difference between Engine and Rekordbox is the Engine forum mod doesn’t run the place like North Korea, whereas the guy on the Rekordbox forum does (and is well known right through the DJ industry for doing exactly that).

I think Serato guy should take a look at his own community forum if he wants to use that type of thing as citation, because this place has plenty of those type of people posting complaints too.

I’ve been using Engine for my primary library management and performance for around 30 months now, and yeah it has some quirks, but my Prime 2 has also had around £2000 worth of upgrades (if we’re calculating it in Pioneer money) and the Engine desktop software is far better much more stable.

This merger will go through, Alpha will lock down the market and we will all end up out of pocket. It wouldn’t surprise me if long term pro owners like myself (2007ish since I bought mine) woke up one day to find our software no longer connects to our hardware, unless we fork out cash for the privilege…. Like you said Chino, RIP.
DJ STU-C 5:02 PM - 12 April, 2024
And just to add to my comments about the Engine forum, yeah there are plenty of genuine complaints, but they are far outnumbered by people who are just ranting about some weird niche way in which they want to manage their library/DJ workflow/Hardware and aren’t willing to adapt or budge from their position. It’s a no win situation for any company, look at all the moaning about waveforms as an example, the modern DJ, who stares at a laptop for a living instead of listening to the actual music.

Rant over.
HellNegative1 5:18 PM - 12 April, 2024
I wish this merger would just go through already. If NZ keeps postponing it, Serato is just going to sell a perpetual license to its codebases to alphatheta instead. All this is doing is postponing the inevitable.
DJ STU-C 5:27 PM - 12 April, 2024
Quote:
I wish this merger would just go through already. If NZ keeps postponing it, Serato is just going to sell a perpetual license to its codebases to alphatheta instead. All this is doing is postponing the inevitable.


Agreed, it should be 5 days now according to the timeline. Most of these documents are mainly just repeating the same crap we've read 5 times on previous documents.
Chino 5:46 PM - 12 April, 2024
Quote:
They cite their own tepid effort to replace Serato DJ with an offering of their own as evidence that our user base is unshakeable, but for that to be valid, they would have to have spent some money on software developers and develop a commitment to quality software.

This does have a passive aggressive tone to it. Essentially labeling EngineDJ as 'lukewarm' & possibly flaccid with no passion?!

Quote:
This merger will go through, Alpha will lock down the market and we will all end up out of pocket. It wouldn’t surprise me if long term pro owners like myself (2007ish since I bought mine) woke up one day to find our software no longer connects to our hardware, unless we fork out cash for the privilege…. Like you said Chino, RIP Serato.

Unfortunately, now this seems like our future 'new normal'?! : /
Chino 7:40 PM - 12 April, 2024
Directly from one of Serato's founders...

QUOTE: "So, I respectfully and strongly disagree with the notion that AlphaTheta is financially incentivised to foreclose on its rivals post-transaction. However, even if we were to all agree that a rational operator in AlphaTheta’s position would choose to foreclose on its hardware rivals, we must also consider what a rational operator would do in my position.

Consider the case where AlphaTheta loses its mind and forecloses on its rivals, that action immediately results in harm to the revenue, and profit of Serato. That harm affects the earn-out and triggers a breach in the sale and purchase agreement. Armed with the cash from the sale, a rational operator in my position would legally enforce the contract and seek damages. In this highly speculative and unlikely scenario, I would absolutely exercise my legal right. This makes the cost to foreclose exponentially higher for AlphaTheta.

The sale and purchase agreement blocks AlphaTheta from entertaining such a bad idea for the period of the earn-out calculations (until the end of 2028). If any person in the industry thinks that 4 and 3⁄4 years isn’t enough time to get ready to take all of Serato’s customers the moment AlphaTheta is free of those restrictions, then that person is not competent, because someone else is always ready."

Of course Mr. Wilderland (Bertenshaw) feels this way because his pay out is at risk. There seems to be no love loss between Serato & inMusic now. Future inMusic products may be in jeopardy! I'm interested in the new unreleased Rane Performer controller but will hold off until the dust settles from this acquisition.
DJ STU-C 8:22 PM - 12 April, 2024
Yeah I read that part with interest. They just want their cash from the sale don't they... wonder how 'passionate about the DJ community' they'll be after they have that cash... my guess is run for the hills.
Chino 12:00 PM - 13 April, 2024
Quote:
They just want their cash from the sale don't they... wonder how 'passionate about the DJ community' they'll be after they have that cash

THIS^!
Chino 12:17 PM - 13 April, 2024
If I were in AlphaTheta's position, I might weigh out the cost of breaching the contract versus following the SPA clauses.

Take the short term hit, pay the penalty, pay out the founders/investors & immediately crush your competition!

What is a 100million + up front cost to a multi-billion dollar hedge fund?

The only unknown is how Serato's customer base will react if AlphaTheta decides to forclose on the competition. In the long run, is it worth it to risk losing Serato's loyal customers to gain a dominant market share in the DJ industry?
HellNegative1 4:19 PM - 13 April, 2024
Quote:
If I were in AlphaTheta's position, I might weigh out the cost of breaching the contract versus following the SPA clauses.

Take the short term hit, pay the penalty, pay out the founders/investors & immediately crush your competition!

What is a 100million + up front cost to a multi-billion dollar hedge fund?

The only unknown is how Serato's customer base will react if AlphaTheta decides to forclose on the competition. In the long run, is it worth it to risk losing Serato's loyal customers to gain a dominant market share in the DJ industry?


Alpha Theta has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders.
DjSyndic8 4:29 PM - 13 April, 2024
I think "InMusic" will never let this sale happen.
the SOUNDINSURGENT 11:03 PM - 13 April, 2024
Quote:
I think "InMusic" will never let this sale happen.


We as djs shouldn't want this too happen…
Chino 3:29 AM - 14 April, 2024
Quote:
We as djs shouldn't want this to happen

I agree but the unfortunate reality is that it might happen no matter how the DJ community feels.
Chino 3:32 AM - 14 April, 2024
Personally, I'm preparing for the worse. I'll be ready to 'jump ship" if need be.
DjSyndic8 4:37 AM - 14 April, 2024
Quote:
Personally, I'm preparing for the worse. I'll be ready to 'jump ship" if need be.


if the intentions of Alphatheta is good without nefarious intentions then the sale will go through without a hitch,

but if they are looking at domination of the DJ industry then that's not gonna look good for the people that are keeping checks and balances on these multl-million dollar companies and their deals and mergers
Converted 12:33 PM - 15 April, 2024
I would imagine that they will shelve serato development,

Leaving all who have invested in serato compatible hardware in limbo.

The pioneer dj brand could be classed as a standard, but its not exactly the most adventurous,

You could imagine them taking the best bits from serato and ditching it. In recent years they have made hardware to support both plafofms ...but the wouldn't need to if they bought them out.
Converted 12:46 PM - 15 April, 2024
I never felt pioneer dj was anything special

I used to own cdjs years back ....they sat on the floor unused , untill I got shut of them .
Chino 2:41 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
I would imagine that they will shelve Serato development,
leaving all who have invested in Serato compatible hardware in limbo.


This(^) is why I'm preparing now. December 31st, 2028 is not that far away! I'm hoping Djay Pro will continue adding/improving their hardware controller choices so that I can move over to their software if I need to.

I would SUPPORT any of the legacy DJ hardware brands if they decided to make a serious comeback into the DJ industry (Vestax, Technics & Roland).
Converted 6:25 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I would imagine that they will shelve Serato development,
leaving all who have invested in Serato compatible hardware in limbo.


This(^) is why I'm preparing now. December 31st, 2028 is not that far away! I'm hoping Djay Pro will continue adding/improving their hardware controller choices so that I can move over to their software if I need to.

I would SUPPORT any of the legacy DJ hardware brands if they decided to make a serious comeback into the DJ industry (Vestax, Technics & Roland).


DJay pro 5 would be a good alternative , if if sonically sounded better
SpinThis! 9:55 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
The pioneer dj brand could be classed as a standard, but its not exactly the most adventurous


FWIW that's because DJs don't like change and things happen very slowly.

Case in point: how many years did it take for the industry to adopt to CDs over vinyl?

Then, a similar stigma happened with Itch and controllers w/ laptops over CDs. (This very forum even called controller users "microwave" DJs).

FWIW Pioneer is only a "standard" in clubs and festival riders. Elsewhere, especially for mobile, DJs use whatever gear makes their job easier.
DJ STU-C 10:21 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
The pioneer dj brand could be classed as a standard, but its not exactly the most adventurous


FWIW that's because DJs don't like change and things happen very slowly.

Case in point: how many years did it take for the industry to adopt to CDs over vinyl?

Then, a similar stigma happened with Itch and controllers w/ laptops over CDs. (This very forum even called controller users "microwave" DJs).

FWIW Pioneer is only a "standard" in clubs and festival riders. Elsewhere, especially for mobile, DJs use whatever gear makes their job easier.


Yeah but every kid in his bedroom mashing that sync button has been led to believe the only gear you can buy to get ready for ‘clubs and festivals’ is Pioneer equipment… so we have loads of sheep blindly buying anything they pump out cos of the brand name.

We can only hope that utter shitshow at the weekend at Coachella has proven that being an actual good DJ is all that matters, not the gear.
Converted 10:23 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
The pioneer dj brand could be classed as a standard, but its not exactly the most adventurous


FWIW that's because DJs don't like change and things happen very slowly.

Case in point: how many years did it take for the industry to adopt to CDs over vinyl?

Then, a similar stigma happened with Itch and controllers w/ laptops over CDs. (This very forum even called controller users "microwave" DJs).

FWIW Pioneer is only a "standard" in clubs and festival riders. Elsewhere, especially for mobile, DJs use whatever gear makes their job easier.



Yes I get that , there is still debates over sync
I think it depends on the music you play too.

I find the club festival area to be very slow on any uptake . That scene is like that ......stream to djay was talked about for years , there was a lot of doubts that would happen..but obviously it did and will continue.

The whole history of a lot of electronic music development is slow , its like change has to be forced.....as you mentioned vinyl to CD / mp3 .......it got the stage where there was no choice . Even record labels didn't adapt fast enough when all the signs were there.

I think controller have their place , and there is no need or much point in jog wheels for certain music.

Serato seems to be bedded with tradional djing , and turntable to dvs etc ...

I think it would be a Shame for a company like alphatheta to get their hand on serato , and dumb it down or discontinue it ......... its also a culture they will be playing with.

Even the same with traktor, choice is there for the good .

Denon dj in my eyes as always been good too ....expecially digitally
Converted 10:27 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:


We can only hope that utter shitshow at the weekend at Coachella has proven that being an actual good DJ is all that matters, not the gear.


That was pathetic , and making an embarrassing hoo arr about it . Obviously her grids were set to x2.

Wouldn't have hurt to check even before playing ? Before rocking up on a spider or what ever it was
DJ STU-C 10:33 PM - 15 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
We can only hope that utter shitshow at the weekend at Coachella has proven that being an actual good DJ is all that matters, not the gear.


That was pathetic , and making an embarrassing hoo arr about it . Obviously her grids were set to x2.

Wouldn't have hurt to check even before playing ? Before rocking up on a spider or what ever it was


Even worse was claiming it was because she outsourced the prep work, like that makes it any better… my advice to her, learn to mix, wear headphones, use headphones, don’t blame other people when you mess up.
SpinThis! 11:04 PM - 15 April, 2024
I assume you're talking about Grimes for those not up to date on the news? Yeh unfortunately that sort of thing is going to continue happening.

The biggest issue with festivals IMO is producers trying to DJ. The promoters want the artist to put together a set, the producer has no idea what to do so they prerecord the mix and dance around like they're doing something.

Meanwhile really talented DJs get passed over only because they don't care about production and promoters don't care because the masses don't know any better, as long as Paris Hilton can draw a crowd.

This is honestly one of the reasons I never see "EDM artists" live. There are obviously some acts that have put together some really killer sets (eg Daft Punk) and I've seen some other acts like Thievery Corp where they actually played instruments or had an actual band perform with them to perform music. I think if people are going to succeed over AI, we need to get back to actually playing music... not performing on Ableton.

I hate the argument that "real DJs use vinyl" but there's definitely another level of skill to it that would disqualify most "producer DJs" today.

I learned to mix in the late 90s using a 5 disc Technics changer with rotary pitch control and Pioneer single disc player (no pitch). So when I got a full DJM-500 / CDJ-700S setup, it was almost too easy having pitch controls on both sides and a BPM readout. It felt like cheating. The scratch bug hit me shortly thereafter and I needed to get turntables so I just sold the Pioneer set and went all in on turntables. A couple years later SSL came out and I've been in the DVS camp ever since. There's just something about playing on turntables...
Chino 1:21 AM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:
I think it would be a shame for a company like AlphaTheta to get their hands on Serato and dumb it down or discontinue it... its also a culture they will be playing with.

Agree 💯. It would be a tragic loss to the DJ community & culture itself.
DJ STU-C 6:25 AM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:
I assume you're talking about Grimes for those not up to date on the news? Yeh unfortunately that sort of thing is going to continue happening.

The biggest issue with festivals IMO is producers trying to DJ. The promoters want the artist to put together a set, the producer has no idea what to do so they prerecord the mix and dance around like they're doing something.

Meanwhile really talented DJs get passed over only because they don't care about production and promoters don't care because the masses don't know any better, as long as Paris Hilton can draw a crowd.

This is honestly one of the reasons I never see "EDM artists" live. There are obviously some acts that have put together some really killer sets (eg Daft Punk) and I've seen some other acts like Thievery Corp where they actually played instruments or had an actual band perform with them to perform music. I think if people are going to succeed over AI, we need to get back to actually playing music... not performing on Ableton.

I hate the argument that "real DJs use vinyl" but there's definitely another level of skill to it that would disqualify most "producer DJs" today.

I learned to mix in the late 90s using a 5 disc Technics changer with rotary pitch control and Pioneer single disc player (no pitch). So when I got a full DJM-500 / CDJ-700S setup, it was almost too easy having pitch controls on both sides and a BPM readout. It felt like cheating. The scratch bug hit me shortly thereafter and I needed to get turntables so I just sold the Pioneer set and went all in on turntables. A couple years later SSL came out and I've been in the DVS camp ever since. There's just something about playing on turntables...


I only really play music that can be blended together, like house music style mixing but a wide variety of genres. A pair of CDJs would be perfect for that but honestly, I wouldn’t swap my 1210s and Reloop Flux/DDJ-SP1 for a pair of CDJ-3000s even if someone was paying me to. The experience and feel of an actual platter and record can’t be matched.

I remember about 20yrs ago Carl Cox issuing a public apology for doing a set and not being into it, said he let the people down who had paid to see him and re-arranged a gig for them for free… fast forward to today and some little narcissist makes an almighty mess at one of the worlds biggest festivals and instead of just owning it, they go on a tirade about someone else preparing their music and ‘technical problems’. If that isn’t a sign of how our scene has changed for the worse, I don’t know what is.
Converted 6:59 AM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:


The biggest issue with festivals IMO is producers trying to DJ. The promoters want the artist to put together a set, the producer has no idea what to do so they prerecord the mix and dance around like they're doing something.

Meanwhile really talented DJs get passed over only because they don't care about production and promoters don't care because the masses don't know any better, as long as Paris Hilton can draw a crowd.


I hate the argument that "real DJs use vinyl" but there's definitely another level of skill to it that would disqualify most "producer DJs" today.
...



Yes that's a big issue with electronic music djing ... its all about fire out as many template tracks as possible to help marketing .....then use that to get gigs. Half of the music doesn't even sell,

This mentality has been driven by the stores like beatport etc ......so that they have regular content on their stores ......and tell artists / djs .....this is what you do or need to do to earn a living ....and get gigs.

So the music ends up being watered-down...... masses of repeative template music released .

Dj ....(as mentioned ) playing gigs who many are not really dj focussed ....but they cant live off mp3 and beatport etc.

It's a mess and driven by market.....from stores initially..filtered to labels and artists


The whole sync thing ........I use it because I don't use jog wheels any more or dvs. But its for different reasons, not that I can't beat match.

For me it's about fx syncing....... tight looping and swift editing live ..

as mentioned on here
If all you want to do is play tracks in length , mix over starts / ends points......similar tempos....
May as well be pioneer cdjs

And doing that ...even without sync buttons is a doddle, it's not like the vinyl days of mixing......
Half the time there is no adjustment required ... set the tracks off playing matched....that's it.

I'm from a production background in electronic music but side by side with djing .... djjng / mixing first background hip hop days.

I can't stand what the electronic music sceen as become , and its also prior key artist / djs who contribute to what It is . They should know better but they play the same game as the rest ,

It's very insecure that scene
DJ STU-C 10:18 AM - 16 April, 2024
Looks like the final decision will be tomorrow anyway... its still saying the 17th of April on the NZ commerce site.
DJ STU-C 10:19 AM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:



as mentioned on here
If all you want to do is play tracks in length , mix over starts / ends points......similar tempos....
May as well be pioneer cdjs

And doing that ...even without sync buttons is a doddle, it's not like the vinyl days of mixing......
Half the time there is no adjustment required ... set the tracks off playing matched....that's it.


In fairness, it might be a doddle, yet so many struggle with it still, even those being showcased on large Youtube channels etc.
Converted 2:29 PM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
as mentioned on here
If all you want to do is play tracks in length , mix over starts / ends points......similar tempos....
May as well be pioneer cdjs

And doing that ...even without sync buttons is a doddle, it's not like the vinyl days of mixing......
Half the time there is no adjustment required ... set the tracks off playing matched....that's it.


In fairness, it might be a doddle, yet so many struggle with it still, even those being showcased on large Youtube channels etc.


True
Chino 3:04 PM - 16 April, 2024
The case status is still listed as 'OPEN'. The timeline indicates that the decision date is completed. I wonder if there will be another extension?
DJ STU-C 3:31 PM - 16 April, 2024
Quote:
The case status is still listed as 'OPEN'. The timeline indicates that the decision date is completed. I wonder if there will be another extension?


Its still quite early over there though isnt it? perhaps it auto closes on the date just after midnight.
Converted 10:57 PM - 16 April, 2024
Anyone think the buy out might be good ?

I'm.really skeptical, I don't have trust in brands like pioneer dj ...

They don't do anything really unsavoury, just their marketing / market and Product vision. Its not got any unique class imo
DJ STU-C 8:11 AM - 17 April, 2024
Extended again, 8th of May now.

comcom.govt.nz

New document in the case register, more repetitive wrangling.

comcom.govt.nz
Converted 8:15 AM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Extended again, 8th of May now.

comcom.govt.nz

New document in the case register, more repetitive wrangling.

comcom.govt.nz



I hope its not just a case about monopoly

If altha are really going to continue the development, as a separate brand. Would it be that bad?

You might expect a few disco balls added to gui 😆
DjSyndic8 10:00 AM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Extended again, 8th of May now.

comcom.govt.nz

New document in the case register, more repetitive wrangling.

comcom.govt.nz


wow someone is purposely dragging this along so the sale wont go through
DjSyndic8 10:07 AM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Extended again, 8th of May now.

comcom.govt.nz

New document in the case register, more repetitive wrangling.

comcom.govt.nz


wow someone is purposely dragging this along so the sale wont go through


Im not complaining:)
Chino 11:34 AM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Extended again, 8th of May now.

comcom.govt.nz

New document in the case register, more repetitive wrangling.

comcom.govt.nz

This never ending nightmare acquisition is now turning into a daytime soap opera...

On today's episode of 'As Serato Spins'...

Alpha Theta denies (secretly) wanting to foreclose on competitors, inMusic screams 'I told you so' & Serato asks 'Where's my 💰💰💰'??!! 🙄😉
Chino 12:03 PM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
If AlphaTheta are really going to continue the development (as a separate brand)- Would it be that bad?

The simple answer is YES!

IF AlphaTheta plays nice by following the SPA contract clause, that gives us until December 31st, 2028. After that, the gloves are off!

AlphaTheta can(will) be able to foreclose on competitors, raise ⬆️ prices, make Serato completely subscription based, AND stifle innovation?! Basically, Alpha Theta will do whatever their greedy black hole heart desires(with an added grin on their smug faces)?!

If Alpha Theta decides to break the contract early, they could just pay out the founders/investors & CEOs. After that, crush the competition immediately & we (DJs) end up casualties of corporate greed!!
Chino 12:16 PM - 17 April, 2024
I truly believe independence is the way forward.

Serato needs to remain COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT under new leadership(NOT AlphaTheta or inMusic) with a strong vision for the future of DJing.
DjSyndic8 1:33 PM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
I truly believe independence is the way forward.

Serato needs to remain COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT under new leadership(NOT AlphaTheta or inMusic) with a strong vision for the future of DJing.


100%
Chino 2:52 PM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Alpha Theta has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders.

Based on my very negative experiences with corporate acquisitions, I believe the shareholders will be willing to...

Take the short term hit if there is a promise of increased profitability & market share dominance in the future.
Mark_Spit 9:39 PM - 17 April, 2024
Maybe Elon can step in lololololol!

At this point I’d rather him than Pioneer.
HellNegative1 11:36 PM - 17 April, 2024
Quote:
Maybe Elon can step in lololololol!

At this point I’d rather him than Pioneer.


If you ever worked for one of his companies, you’d heavily disagree. :-p
Hanginon 9:41 PM - 19 April, 2024
I'm just curious if it will be called Seratobox or Rekordato?
Converted 11:49 PM - 19 April, 2024
I work for company in tech training who have been involved with a few acquisitions,

I hope if this goes ahead , I hope its not like what I have seen.

The company I work for ....they buy other business, respect them for a few years , then seem to dissemble them ....make redundancy,

Milk the best of it and remove them , no longer part of a group .....all shifts back to their brand ....wankxxx
Converted 7:51 PM - 3 May, 2024
Has there been any update on this
DJ STU-C 8:32 AM - 4 May, 2024
Quote:
Has there been any update on this


Delayed until next week in NZ. Not sure if it’ll get delayed again.

The UK have raised some serious concerns and left Alpha/Serato 5 days to answer them or it’ll move to a 2nd phase investigation.
Converted 8:35 AM - 4 May, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Has there been any update on this


Delayed until next week in NZ. Not sure if it’ll get delayed again.

The UK have raised some serious concerns and left Alpha/Serato 5 days to answer them or it’ll move to a 2nd phase investigation.


looks like a long haul, hopefully it will result in positivity and clauses that protect the Serato brand longer term.
Chino 2:14 PM - 6 May, 2024
Quote:
Delayed until next week in NZ. Not sure if it’ll get delayed again.

The UK have raised some serious concerns and left Alpha/Serato 5 days to answer them or it’ll move to a 2nd phase investigation.

I'm glad this acquisition is being investigated further. Personally, I won't be spending any of my hard earned $$$ on any products from Alpha Theta, Serato or inMusic until this acquisition is complete.

After reading thru all the documentation, one thing is painfully clear. The only thing these companies & CEOs care about is THEIR money?! They could care less about the DJ community. We are just an ends to a means!!
DjSyndic8 2:22 PM - 6 May, 2024
Quote:
After reading thru all the documentation, one thing is painfully clear. The only thing these companies & CEOs care about is THEIR money?! They could care less about the DJ community. We are just an ends to a means!!


absolutley,
DJ STU-C 3:16 PM - 6 May, 2024
“After six months and hundreds of pages of filings, neither ATC nor Serato answers the
quintessential question: Why? Why would ATC pay over NZD $100 million in cash, in
addition to undisclosed (but purportedly “a significant component of the purchase price”)
earn-out payments, for Serato—a company that both Serato and ATC spend scores of pages
suggesting is poorly-positioned, and will likely struggle, to compete in the ever-changing DJ
software market and may be overtaken in the next three to five years by new technology?”

A key contribution.
DJ STU-C 3:21 PM - 6 May, 2024
In fact this whole document is quite damning. I can’t see how it can be passed after reading this, but I think it will be unfortunately.

comcom.govt.nz
Chino 10:56 PM - 6 May, 2024
🍿🍿🍿QUOTE:"Rather than acknowledge its aggressive power play or concoct a plausible alternative reason
to spend lavishly on Serato, the parties ignore the question altogether. Instead, they spend
page after page attempting to gaslight the Commission into doubting the anti-competitive
reality of the proposed acquisition.

The primary problem that ATC and Serato face, however, is that when manufacturing a story,
especially among multiple parties, it is difficult to keep it all coherent and consistent.
Unsurprisingly, the parties have failed. The end result is a mishmash of half-baked theories
and conflicting rhetoric that reveals their utter duplicity."

Whenever I question whether it was a good idea to leave the corporate world- All I have to do is read the document above. I definitely made the right choice!!
Chino 11:01 PM - 6 May, 2024
Quote:
In fact this whole document is quite damning.

comcom.govt.nz

Corporate greed. Absolutley no regard for us(DJs) at all?!
Converted 6:14 AM - 7 May, 2024
The whole club , dj and festival game ....Has a been a big corporate money capitalism game for a long time.

Full of corporate sponsorship, drink companies, tech companies and anything in-between. Lots of marketing publicity stunts.

I wouldn't say there is much in terms of art and culture left . Years back when I played out more and travelled.... airline tickets were always paid for via corporate sponsorship, drinks companies or other.

Jezz don't red bull even have a stamp on a range of technics decks?
Chino 11:24 AM - 8 May, 2024
In today's episode of...

'As Serato Spins'- DJs wake up to yet ANOTHER extension of this never ending nightmare acquisition. Will the commerce comission finally make a decision? Will Alpha Theta back out of the deal? Will Serato ever get their 💰💰💰?? Stay tuned for more info on June 27th, 2024.
Chino 2:11 PM - 10 May, 2024
*We(DJs) are just a means to an end.

Still no edit button @Serato. I really should proof read BEFORE I post! ; )
DjSyndic8 2:24 PM - 10 May, 2024
Quote:
*We(DJs) are just a means to an end.

Still no edit button @Serato. I really should proof read BEFORE I post! ; )


lol we are all guilty dont feel bad Chino
Ragman 12:44 AM - 12 May, 2024
Quote:
...

Still no edit button @Serato. I really should proof read BEFORE I post! ; )

Yeah, you just gotta get use to hitting the preview button before post.
KlausMogensen 7:34 PM - 20 May, 2024
In a discussion over a beer me and a fellow DJ found ourselvs wondering: "What ever happened with Pioneer buying Serato? Hasn't it been like a year since we heard the news?"

Looking at this thread I guess the answer is: Lots have happened. But nothing that means anything for the users

Is that correct? Nobody knows what will happen, if anything at all?
DJ STU-C 7:51 PM - 20 May, 2024
Quote:
In a discussion over a beer me and a fellow DJ found ourselvs wondering: "What ever happened with Pioneer buying Serato? Hasn't it been like a year since we heard the news?"

Looking at this thread I guess the answer is: Lots have happened. But nothing that means anything for the users

Is that correct? Nobody knows what will happen, if anything at all?


The hearing keeps getting delayed so the takeover is on hold. There’s reams and reams of documents to go through that show the argument in full if you want some reading.

It’s a mess and we as DJs will suffer.
DjSyndic8 1:07 AM - 21 May, 2024
I take it this is what multi million dollar companies do,

one side wants to get it over and done with and the other just stalls the process.

stalling means finding anything at all to try and stop the sale,

not for DJs benefit but for the survival of a companies livelihood.

I'm pretty sure DJs are smart enough to figure out whos who:)

all we want as DJs is can we all get back to bussiness,

just my 2cents of what I think is going on, but we dont really know.

Time will tell.
Chino 2:54 AM - 21 May, 2024
Quote:
It’s a mess and we as DJs will suffer.

Agree 100%! I don't think Alpha Theta & Serato were expecting this much push back from the DJ community. I'm sure Serato & Alpha Theta are aware that inMusic is NOT happy about this acquisiton, tho!!

What worries me is how this acquisition is going to effect product releases & future compatibility from hardware companies like Rane. I'm interested in the Rane Performer & the yet unannounced Rane mixer that is(allegedly) in the pipeline. I need a long term guarantee of Serato compatibility with Rane(Denon, Numark, Roland, Reloop, Hercules) products! As it stands now, we will have until December 31st, 2028 IF the acquisition is approved. After that, Alpha Theta has the ability(and incentive) to foreclose on their competitors. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to invest in Rane products unless they become compatible with other DJ software like DJay Pro.
Despo 9:41 PM - 21 May, 2024
Quote:
I'm interested in the Rane Performer & the yet unannounced Rane mixer that is(allegedly) in the pipeline. I need a long term guarantee of Serato compatibility with Rane(Denon, Numark, Roland, Reloop, Hercules) products! As it stands now, we will have until December 31st, 2028 IF the acquisition is approved. After that, Alpha Theta has the ability(and incentive) to foreclose on their competitors. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to invest in Rane products unless they become compatible with other DJ software like DJay Pro.


Rane made 19 products in total for scratch live and serato dj. 10 of those are now discontinued, which is over 50% of their stuff, so much for longetivity.

Meanwhile the pioneer ddj s1 still works with serato dj lol

I still want rane around because competition is important, but I wouldn't buy any of their products personally.
Chino 10:59 PM - 21 May, 2024
Quote:
Rane made 19 products in total for scratch live and serato dj. 10 of those are now discontinued, which is over 50% of their stuff, so much for longetivity.

Good point! I miss the legacy Rane company!!

Pioneer DJ do support their products for the long haul which is great. I do own/like some of their products.
DJMark 9:49 PM - 24 May, 2024
Rane has been dead to me since they stopped being a real company about 8 years ago, and became just another InMusic brand name.
electro77 10:30 PM - 24 May, 2024
Quote:
Rane has been dead to me since they stopped being a real company about 8 years ago, and became just another InMusic brand name.

What did they get wrong on their latest 3 products which look like some of the best offerings in the Industry

mkII Twelve - Controller
Seventy - Battle Mixer
- Four Controller
HellNegative1 12:10 AM - 25 May, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Rane has been dead to me since they stopped being a real company about 8 years ago, and became just another InMusic brand name.

What did they get wrong on their latest 3 products which look like some of the best offerings in the Industry

mkII Twelve - Controller
Seventy - Battle Mixer
- Four Controller


Twelves use the numark motors and motor control assy. They die after 3 years on average (either motor fails or caps pop on motor control assy.)

Havent had a Seventy hit my workbench, so I assume it's a solid product.

Only thing I have repaired on Rane Fours is the USB connector, but that can come down to user abuse.
DJ STU-C 7:42 AM - 25 May, 2024
I want a mixer with hardware FX... the choice is shocking in Serato, £1300 cheapest product.
Mutis 10:18 AM - 25 May, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Rane has been dead to me since they stopped being a real company about 8 years ago, and became just another InMusic brand name.

What did they get wrong on their latest 3 products which look like some of the best offerings in the Industry

mkII Twelve - Controller
Seventy - Battle Mixer
- Four Controller


Twelves use the numark motors and motor control assy. They die after 3 years on average (either motor fails or caps pop on motor control assy.)


At digitalvertigo forums there's a topic about the old CDX where some of the fixing is talked about. Some improvements were made from v1 to 2 but these still require some extra love to avoid similar problems. Maybe worth a look so fixing them before start failing will make them last long.
It has some pages so it will require some patience to find the info.
www.digitalvertigo.co.uk
Chino 11:41 PM - 25 May, 2024
Quote:
Rane has been dead to me since they stopped being a real company about 8 years ago, and became just another InMusic brand name.

This statement hits hard! I still have hope for Rane with future products like the Rane Performer.
DjSyndic8 8:13 PM - 26 May, 2024
UK competition watchdog flags concerns over AlphaTheta-Serato DJ tech deal

www.reuters.com

May 1 (Reuters) - British competition regulator said on Wednesday that Japan-based AlphaTheta's proposed deal to acquire New Zealand's Serato could see DJs paying more to keep partygoers entertained.

WHY IT'S IMPORTANT
Britain's Competition and Markets Authority (CMA), after its phase 1 probe launched in March, found that the deal could reduce innovation, choice, and access to DJ equipment and software.

The investigation also found that the deal could weaken competition in various DJ hardware markets by restricting or worsening other hardware manufacturers' access to Serato's software

CONTEXT
AlphaTheta Corp, the company behind the Pioneer DJ brand, said last year it would buy the Auckland-based Serato Audio Research Ltd, a firm known for its Serato DJ software, in a deal valued at more than $100 million.
New Zealand Commerce Commission is also probing the deal.

KEY QUOTE
"We are also concerned it (deal) could negatively impact the hardware markets by allowing the combined business to leverage Serato's leading software to harm its hardware competitors, ultimately affecting DJs and consumers," said Joel Bamford, executive director for mergers at the CMA.

WHAT'S NEXT
Both AlphaTheta and Serato have five working days to respond with meaningful solutions to the CMA, otherwise the deal will be referred to an in-depth phase 2 investigation.
DJ STU-C 7:17 AM - 27 May, 2024
Ah yeah that’s regurgitated from a few weeks back by Reuters.

I believe it’s lapsed and now moved up to the next stage.
Chino 11:31 AM - 29 May, 2024
Today on 'As Serato Spins'...

Is inMusic winning the battle but losing the war? What will happen to the future business relationship between inMusic & Serato if the acquisition is blocked? Will Serato want to continue to work with inMusic?

Will inMusic work with Alpha Theta if the sale does go thru? This acquistion is shaping up to be a lose lose situation no matter what happens?! 🙄
DjSyndic8 12:30 PM - 29 May, 2024
i take it Serato just wants to sell it already?

cause we havent heard anything from Serato,

its like 2 boys fighting over a girl lol
DJ STU-C 3:37 PM - 29 May, 2024
Quote:
i take it Serato just wants to sell it already?

cause we havent heard anything from Serato,

its like 2 boys fighting over a girl lol


2 boys with extremely small weeners, and a girl who's best days are long behind her.
DjSyndic8 9:55 PM - 29 May, 2024
Quote:
2 boys with extremely small weeners, and a girl who's best days are long behind her.


lmao :)
Chino 2:14 AM - 31 May, 2024
Another thing that is painfully clear...

There is PLENTY of resources(money) for R&D, bug fixes & user feature requests!!

If Serato, inMusic & Alpha Theta have all this money to spend on lawyers & consultants then they also have enough money to add long over due user feature requests (Apple Silicon native support, library management overhaul, FX improvements, embedded technology etc.)

There is absolutely NO excuse @Serato
Philmixit 9:58 AM - 31 May, 2024
I agree <>
Despo 9:39 PM - 3 June, 2024
Quote:
Another thing that is painfully clear...

There is PLENTY of resources(money) for R&D, bug fixes & user feature requests!!

If Serato, inMusic & Alpha Theta have all this money to spend on lawyers & consultants then they also have enough money to add long over due user feature requests (Apple Silicon native support, library management overhaul, FX improvements, embedded technology etc.)

There is absolutely NO excuse @Serato


What do you mean, there is no business sense in serato investing in apple silicon support right now if they're intending to sell. I certainly wouldn't put any money in a used car I'm trying to get rid of 🤷
v@l 9:42 PM - 3 June, 2024
Watchwww.youtube.com
Mr Wilks 10:33 PM - 3 June, 2024
Quote:
What do you mean, there is no business sense in serato investing in apple silicon support right now if they're intending to sell. I certainly wouldn't put any money in a used car I'm trying to get rid of 🤷


You may want to check out the public beta then…

serato.com
Despo 11:06 PM - 3 June, 2024
Yup I was super wrong, eating my words right now.

Well done serato
Chino 12:53 AM - 4 June, 2024
Quote:

You may want to check out the public beta then…

serato.com

This^ made me VERY happy!! Thank you @Serato
DJ STU-C 3:05 PM - 5 June, 2024
Can somebody explain to me who this utter clown is, and why he thinks he is somehow contributing anything of worth to this issue? The guy is an absolute joke, who's comments read like someone who's spent too much of his life with his head in a bag of white powder.

comcom.govt.nz
DJ STU-C 3:10 PM - 5 June, 2024
Can someone also explain why he has such an interest in supporting Alpha (what is really in it for him to write 12 page documents showing unwavering support), and rubbishing anything written by InMusic? the whole thing reeks to me of other factors in play.
Chino 3:20 PM - 5 June, 2024
Quote:

comcom.govt.nz

WTF did I just read?! LMAO! Is the circus in town?? I just lost a couple billion brain cells trying to understand all these word excrements!
Chino 3:24 PM - 5 June, 2024
There truly is NO hope that Alpha Theta & Serato will do right by the DJ community! At this point, they will say, do, write ANYTHING that pushes the sale thru by any means necessary??!!
Despo 5:06 PM - 5 June, 2024
well guys, time to send some emails? there's a lot more DJs that think otherwise, we outnumber this clown by far.

If someone can come up with a template or something I'm in.
Caley Martin 5:49 PM - 5 June, 2024
Quote:
Can somebody explain to me who this utter clown is, and why he thinks he is somehow contributing anything of worth to this issue? The guy is an absolute joke, who's comments read like someone who's spent too much of his life with his head in a bag of white powder.

comcom.govt.nz


He lost me at “ From 2013 to 2019, I was an investor in and advisor to Keezy Corp. Backed by Kanye West, Justin Bieber”

😂🤡
DJ STU-C 7:44 PM - 5 June, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Can somebody explain to me who this utter clown is, and why he thinks he is somehow contributing anything of worth to this issue? The guy is an absolute joke, who's comments read like someone who's spent too much of his life with his head in a bag of white powder.

comcom.govt.nz


He lost me at “ From 2013 to 2019, I was an investor in and advisor to Keezy Corp. Backed by Kanye West, Justin Bieber”

😂🤡


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Referencing the lunatic of all lunatics then expecting it to hold weight.
Dj Ricky Redz 9:26 PM - 6 June, 2024
Whats the name of the website that can be used to get people to sign up to stop things like these???
can't seem to remember it and google-ing not helping right now.
DjSyndic8 8:08 AM - 7 June, 2024
Quote:
Whats the name of the website that can be used to get people to sign up to stop things like these???
can't seem to remember it and google-ing not helping right now.


I think those sites are only good for stopping governmemts from doing things, Petition.org
DJ STU-C 8:10 AM - 7 June, 2024
Yeah i dare say the case in the right hands already for stopping it, if its deemed as unfair.
DjSyndic8 9:16 AM - 7 June, 2024
Quote:
Yeah i dare say the case in the right hands already for stopping it, if its deemed as unfair.

agree bro:)
Dj Ricky Redz 12:16 AM - 10 June, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Whats the name of the website that can be used to get people to sign up to stop things like these???
can't seem to remember it and google-ing not helping right now.


I think those sites are only good for stopping governmemts from doing things, Petition.org

oh crap... well lets just see what happens.
Chino 12:28 AM - 26 June, 2024
I was distracted by the release of the Rane Performer today but technically its tomorrow- June 27th in NZ. June 27th is the final decision date for the acquisition unless it gets extended yet again.

Anyone in NZ know what the final decision is??
Chino 12:29 AM - 26 June, 2024
Never mind Im a day ahead of myself! LOL
HellNegative1 12:58 AM - 26 June, 2024
Quote:
I was distracted by the release of the Rane Performer today but technically its tomorrow- June 27th in NZ. June 27th is the final decision date for the acquisition unless it gets extended yet again.

Anyone in NZ know what the final decision is??


Crossing my fingers for Thursday.
subculture 7:56 PM - 26 June, 2024
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?
nik39 10:07 PM - 26 June, 2024
Quote:
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?

We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ;)
SpinThis! 11:28 PM - 26 June, 2024
… and extended to July 18.

Is Vegas taking bets on when and how this will play out yet?
Chino 12:34 AM - 27 June, 2024
Quote:
We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ; )

THIS^!! Serato ONLY costs a cool $100 mill. We can fund it by throwing a couple house parties and maybe a festival or two- LOL
DJ Quartz 12:53 AM - 28 June, 2024
This site is breaking down the timeline,

www.govwire.co.uk
The Return of Dj Sparky 3.14 7:25 AM - 28 June, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?

We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ;)


If my Christmas bonus comes through screw the pool, I'll buy Serato myself and bring back mixtape, live feed and a complete library management overhaul
PopRoXxX 5:11 PM - 28 June, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?

We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ;)


If my Christmas bonus comes through screw the pool, I'll buy Serato myself and bring back mixtape, live feed and a complete library management overhaul

😆
Chino 10:48 AM - 3 July, 2024
Quote:
If my Christmas bonus comes through screw the pool, I'll buy Serato myself and bring back mixtape, live feed and a complete library management overhaul

😂👍
nik39 2:57 PM - 3 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?

We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ;)


If my Christmas bonus comes through screw the pool, I'll buy Serato myself and bring back mixtape, live feed and a complete library management overhaul

😄
+1 on mixtape and library management (wish I had more time *I put into Scratchtools library management ;))
DJ Quartz 3:47 PM - 12 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
If the sale is blocked, what happens to Serato?

We gonna crowdfund and buy Serato ;)


This isn't a bad idea Nik39, lol

It's like when they were going to discontinue Technics and I asked why do we all band together as DJ's and buy the patent, etc.

And I meant everyone.
DJ Quartz 3:48 PM - 12 July, 2024
Correction....

asked why don't we all band together as DJ's....
subculture 5:43 PM - 13 July, 2024
Quote:
...it's like when they were going to discontinue Technics and I asked why do we all band together as DJ's and buy the patent, etc...

"Hasn't the original patent for the SL-1200s expired?"
DJ Quartz 2:40 AM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
"Hasn't the original patent for the SL-1200s expired?"


By law I think a patent expires after 25yrs.
DjSyndic8 3:36 AM - 16 July, 2024
can anyone unlock this story thats related to this thread with a working paywall heres the link: www.nbr.co.nz

it looks interesting " Serato Slams Com Com"
SpinThis! 1:42 PM - 16 July, 2024
Here's the video from the story: [Watchwww.youtube.com]
the SOUNDINSURGENT 2:29 PM - 16 July, 2024
After watching that, you can tell "words" were carefully chosen here.
DJ STU-C 2:36 PM - 16 July, 2024
Surely they must know the potential damage the deal will do to the industry.

Alpha have literally just put some steps in place to 'damage the consumer' this past 2 weeks.... why would any of us blindly trust their control of Serato.
DJ STU-C 2:39 PM - 16 July, 2024
"Virtually every other application has migrated to Tablets"

what a load of old tosh.
PopRoXxX 3:46 PM - 16 July, 2024
A big point of discussion I took away from this video: they mainly (not only, but majority) talk about the sale decision based in NZ and how it really won’t affect major things in their area. But if you look at it from the US aspect or possibly other areas, it will affect it. Also, “5 years in the tech industry is an eternity” … I understand the thought process behind this, but 5 years will also fly by so fast and anybody can do what they want with Serato after that. It’s only a 5 year cushion that will go by very quickly. I could be wrong here … Pioneer/InMusic are worldwide, but I would think a dominance of their markets would maybe reside in the US? If that’s the case, if this sale was happening in the US, I would think it would face even more hardships and setbacks.
Chino 4:39 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
After watching that, you can tell "words" were carefully chosen here.

THIS!^

Quote:
Pioneer/InMusic are worldwide, but I would think a dominance of their markets would maybe reside in the US? If that’s the case, if this sale was happening in the US, I would think it would face even more hardships and setbacks.

The founders are tip toeing around this fact! They concentrate their argument around how NZ is effected but dance around how the U.S. is the largest DJ market in the world.

QUOTE: "Over estimation of Serato's massive market share power."

It feels like the founders are attempting to downplay Serato's importance & dominance in the U.S. & around the world in order to push the sale thru.

Even with all the anti-foreclosure clauses in place (until Dec. 2028), Alpha Theta cannot be trusted! They are owned by a multi national hedge fund who's sole goal is profits above all else!! Hedge funds could care less about NZ or the world DJ community and its end users!!! Respectfully, the founders are naive to think that Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) can be trusted.

IF Serato is truly so concerned about competition from apps (like DJay Pro AI), then they have had ample time to develop their own Serato iPad app. This has been a feature request for YEARS!

As I stated many times before, this acquisition is just an exit strategy. The founders did NOT expect this much push back & just want to sell off Serato. End of story : (
Chino 4:54 PM - 16 July, 2024
One more thing...

The 'marketing fluff' of saying that there are "long term synergistic benefits" to an Alpha Theta/Serato acquisition needs to stop. It is insulting to the intelligence of end users!!

Just say the truth, which is after December 2028, Alpha Theta has the ability to raise prices, go completely subscription based, gut Serato & limit competitors access to SDJ Pro software.

Rekordbox is already subscription based & Alpha Theta limits controller compatibility with each new roll out. Hedge funds LOVE subscription based models!
DjSyndic8 4:55 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
Here's the video from the story: [Watchwww.youtube.com]


appreciated Spin:)
Chino 5:00 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
Surely they must know the potential damage the deal will do to the industry.

Alpha have literally just put some steps in place to 'damage the consumer' this past 2 weeks.... why would any of us blindly trust their control of Serato.

They KNOW! They just don't care as long as they get paid!!
SpinThis! 5:02 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
As I stated many times before, this acquisition is just an exit strategy. The founders did NOT expect this much push back & just want to sell off Serato. End of story : (

And so what? People change careers, and life paths all the time. Serato don't owe you a damn thing.

I'm probably biased but I still remember exchanging private messages with Steve and AJ on this forum in the early 2000s about how to make Scratch LIve product better. These guys are class acts and deserve an exit.
Chino 5:30 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
These guys are class acts and deserve an exit.

Agreed. I have nothing but respect for the founders & what they have accomplished with Serato. Personally, I don't agree with WHO is potentially acquiring Serato.

Maybe I'll borrow @The Return of Dj Sparky 3.14's Christmas bonus & buy Serato myself! LOL

Quote:
And so what? People change careers, and life paths all the time. Serato don't owe you a damn thing.

Never said I am owed anything. I do believe that as leaders in the DJ industry- the founders have a responsibility to do right by the community that has supported them all these years. Maybe the founders feel that the foreclosure clauses they put in place are enough to safe guard Serato for now?
SpinThis! 6:06 PM - 16 July, 2024
Quote:
Personally, I don't agree with WHO is potentially acquiring Serato.

I'm sure these guys went through a bunch of companies and ATC was the best option. I mean, who wouldn't want to sell to the biggest name in DJ hardware? I'd be very surprised if inMusic didn't at least have a shot but balked at some of their terms and inMusic's past with that sort of thing.

The other thing, ATC has no reason to screw over a bunch of (legacy) customers for no reason. The whole point of buying a brand like Serato is to gain access to their marketshare and products.

The second you change a working business model is the day customers jump ship. ATC still needs customers to sell their product to and if inMusic actually had a compelling option, they'd be a player... but they seem to keep their heads buried in the sand.

Quote:
Hedge funds LOVE subscription based models!

yeh because they're the only way software businesses actually make money. (The question then becomes what is "reasonable".)

DJs: "I bought a DJ controller 10 years ago and I refuse to pay for a subscription. Those greedy bastards should give me updates for free!"
Also DJs: "why doesn't Serato have X Y Z features from Djay?"
DJ Quartz 5:47 PM - 17 July, 2024
Quote:
Here's the video from the story: [Watchwww.youtube.com]


I'll say this.... that was interesting.
DJ STU-C 9:50 PM - 17 July, 2024
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.
Caley Martin 10:31 PM - 17 July, 2024
Quote:
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.


Hah! Finally a resolution.
djkurve 10:32 PM - 17 July, 2024
Quote:
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.


+1
DjLaZaRuSrOcKs 11:05 PM - 17 July, 2024
Interesting that the merger was denied. Might be the best thing for Serato DJ's. I wonder if Alpha Theta will make a new reworked proposal or if someone else will try to buy Serato?
DJ Quartz 12:56 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.


+1
Despo 1:50 AM - 18 July, 2024
Take the L alphatheta, I was about to post that I'll be going back to Traktor with either the release of Traktor 4 or well... Dare I say virtual DJ if serato was to become subscription only.
DjSyndic8 6:30 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.


Woooow

I guess when they did the interview on the video, the two owners already knew the outcome,

having a Monopoly in business is not OK according to Com Com,

I've always said from the start of this sale that if the competition buys up something its usually because they want to bury it or run it to the ground,

Apple has been doing dodgy tactics with Samsung for years resulting in hefty hundred-million-dollar fines handed down against Apple.
I guess this is why they setup commissions around the world to stop this.

I also think that Com Com in New Zealand are basing their ruling on actual physical evidence and not circumstantial evidence. to be able to hand down this ruling,

maybe documents or testimonial evidence by an ex-employee of Pioneer or Alphatheta, was used, who knows?
maybe they will appeal the decision. who know?

My suggestion is if the owners of Serato want out and have lost their Love for Serato,
I say Step aside and hand the reigns over to someone else that has the passion to take Serato forward into the DJ Future.

The owners can still get paid the Big Bucks and retire if they want,

also do you guys think Com Com, reads DJs comments? on this thread? or is the Com Com Team DJs?

I feel like the Com Com team are acting to how we as DJs all feel? with the outcome of not allowing Serato to Sell.

or maybe it’s a coincident,
DJ STU-C 7:22 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
www.scoop.co.nz

Well, well, well.


Woooow

I guess when they did the interview on the video, the two owners already knew the outcome,

having a Monopoly in business is not OK according to Com Com,

I've always said from the start of this sale that if the competition buys up something its usually because they want to bury it or run it to the ground,

Apple has been doing dodgy tactics with Samsung for years resulting in hefty hundred-million-dollar fines handed down against Apple.
I guess this is why they setup commissions around the world to stop this.

I also think that Com Com in New Zealand are basing their ruling on actual physical evidence and not circumstantial evidence. to be able to hand down this ruling,

maybe documents or testimonial evidence by an ex-employee of Pioneer or Alphatheta, was used, who knows?
maybe they will appeal the decision. who know?

My suggestion is if the owners of Serato want out and have lost their Love for Serato,
I say Step aside and hand the reigns over to someone else that has the passion to take Serato forward into the DJ Future.

The owners can still get paid the Big Bucks and retire if they want,

also do you guys think Com Com, reads DJs comments? on this thread? or is the Com Com Team DJs?

I feel like the Com Com team are acting to how we as DJs all feel? with the outcome of not allowing Serato to Sell.

or maybe it’s a coincident,


Nah, i think they have a job to do and have to act with complete impartiality to any subject, so anyone with a vested interest will be put on other claims. They are essentially a court of law and will operate much in the same manner.

The fact they made this decision doesn't mean they care about DJs, it just means the concerns we have about it have been validated. We thought it was dodgy, they have decided it is dodgy.
The Return of Dj Sparky 3.14 9:20 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Take the L alphatheta, I was about to post that I'll be going back to Traktor with either the release of Traktor 4 or well... Dare I say virtual DJ if serato was to become subscription only.


Its really Serato taking the L on this one.

Looks like Steve and AJ will have to make other plans with the millions thy could have had.

Solution, relocate the company to a different jurisdiction and sell again and maybe that country won't block the sale.
nik39 9:28 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Nah, i think they have a job to do and have to act with complete impartiality to any subject, so anyone with a vested interest will be put on other claims. They are essentially a court of law and will operate much in the same manner.

+1
nik39 9:31 AM - 18 July, 2024
We're being obviously selfish in here.

Steve and AJ put a lot of love and effort into the company. If they decide they want to sell it, they have their rights to do so. If they are not interested in the DJ market, that's their choice. They have the right to do so. They deserve to do so.

Of course... We as customers have different interests.
DjSyndic8 11:42 AM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Nah, i think they have a job to do and have to act with complete impartiality to any subject, so anyone with a vested interest will be put on other claims. They are essentially a court of law and will operate much in the same manner.

The fact they made this decision doesn't mean they care about DJs, it just means the concerns we have about it have been validated. We thought it was dodgy, they have decided it is dodgy.


true dat:)

Quote:
Steve and AJ put a lot of love and effort into the company. If they decide they want to sell it, they have their rights to do so. If they are not interested in the DJ market, that's their choice. They have the right to do so. They deserve to do so.


agree but you have to follow laws in every country,
SpinThis! 12:25 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
I wonder if Alpha Theta will make a new reworked proposal

I don't see Alpha Theta trying again, the acquisition is tainted.

If they tried to push the sale through via a lower acquisition cost, thus not triggering the regulatory scrutiny, I could see the scrutiny happening AGAIN regardless.

Quote:
or if someone else will try to buy Serato?

This is more likely. But Serato is more than just DJ software though.

One way this could happen would be the DJ side gets spun off, and the music production side still goes to Alpha Theta—after all, this is the most profitable part of Serato anyway. There's no way inMusic would try to block that, they hold too many music production cards for their opinion to hold any weight.

The question then is, who buys DJ? If the price were right, algoriddim could be a great fit to beef up their hardware compatibility. Serato DJ as a product might die on the vine but some of the code and mappings might live on in an upgraded DJay Pro.

Or would inMusic grab it? It's possible this was Jack O'Donnell's play all along—to acquire DJ for a song. They don't need Serato Sample or Studio but acquiring DJ would get them the thing they wanted to begin with... all of DJ's customers and brand. The question becomes, would Serato sell to them? And would they keep existing business alive for 5 years like the original SPA?
DjSyndic8 1:21 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I wonder if Alpha Theta will make a new reworked proposal

I don't see Alpha Theta trying again, the acquisition is tainted.

If they tried to push the sale through via a lower acquisition cost, thus not triggering the regulatory scrutiny, I could see the scrutiny happening AGAIN regardless.

Quote:
or if someone else will try to buy Serato?

This is more likely. But Serato is more than just DJ software though.

One way this could happen would be the DJ side gets spun off, and the music production side still goes to Alpha Theta—after all, this is the most profitable part of Serato anyway. There's no way inMusic would try to block that, they hold too many music production cards for their opinion to hold any weight.

The question then is, who buys DJ? If the price were right, algoriddim could be a great fit to beef up their hardware compatibility. Serato DJ as a product might die on the vine but some of the code and mappings might live on in an upgraded DJay Pro.

Or would inMusic grab it? It's possible this was Jack O'Donnell's play all along—to acquire DJ for a song. They don't need Serato Sample or Studio but acquiring DJ would get them the thing they wanted to begin with... all of DJ's customers and brand. The question becomes, would Serato sell to them? And would they keep existing business alive for 5 years like the original SPA?


+1
nik39 1:29 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
agree but you have to follow laws in every country,

Always. Unless your name is Trump 😂

I was commenting more on the moral question, not the regulatory side.
DjSyndic8 1:44 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
agree but you have to follow laws in every country,

Always. Unless your name is Trump 😂

I was commenting more on the moral question, not the regulatory side.

lmao, careful we might get cancelled:) look at Jack Blacks band
viper9711 2:28 PM - 18 July, 2024
Some news fromToday:
www.dj-lab.de
Clubber1970 3:41 PM - 18 July, 2024
comcom.govt.nz
Chino 5:19 PM - 18 July, 2024
So what happens now? An appeal or possibly Steve & AJ will find a new buyer?
HellNegative1 5:25 PM - 18 July, 2024
The next steps will most likely be,

Serato moved base of operations to a different country
Serato renegotiates the sale in a different territory.
New Zealand loses out on tax revenue from the deal.
DJ STU-C 5:50 PM - 18 July, 2024
I’m more inclined to think they will sell off their patents to AT, as a way of skirting around the issue.
nik39 10:14 PM - 18 July, 2024
Just realized that there is a case in the UK as well.

Does anyone know why this is happening in the UK? I mean neither ATC nor Serato have their bases in the UK, right?

www.gov.uk
DJ STU-C 10:20 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Just realized that there is a case in the UK as well.

Does anyone know why this is happening in the UK? I mean neither ATC nor Serato have their bases in the UK, right?

www.gov.uk


Early doors InMusic said they would raise it with as many nations monopoly and merger departments as possible to stop it going through.

I assume it would have gotten to the UK eventually though, although I don’t really know how it works as to who is responsible for approving it, surely it’s the home nation of the company who have to take it on board?
Mr Wilks 10:24 PM - 18 July, 2024
Quote:
Just realized that there is a case in the UK as well.

Does anyone know why this is happening in the UK? I mean neither ATC nor Serato have their bases in the UK, right?

www.gov.uk


I think if there's a chance it could impact the UK market they'll investigate. It will affect markets the products are sold in so a probable outcome would be to ban it or block it like we did with the Microsoft/Activision deal. That was revised and got though: www.gov.uk
Mr Wilks 10:36 PM - 18 July, 2024
I also read somewhere that the UK scan for deals going through and investigate how it could affect UK users. I'll find that as I read it today.

It got referred to phase 2 escalation in the UK: www.gov.uk
Z-Point 4:53 AM - 19 July, 2024
Call it a win for us little guys and girls, the consumers! I have very little doubt that the one-time purchase option for Serato DJ Pro would have gone away if this deal had gone through. I guess I'm sympathetic to the owners not getting to sell their company, but I'd bet they can sell it to someone else if they want.
KlausMogensen 10:39 AM - 19 July, 2024
Quote:
If the price were right, algoriddim could be a great fit to beef up their hardware compatibility. Serato DJ as a product might die on the vine but some of the code and mappings might live on in an upgraded DJay Pro.

Algoriddim is pretty tiny. 20-30 people abased in Munich, Germany.
I doubt they have 100 million dollars lying around
(unless they let Apple pay for it, and becomes a 100% Apple company

As a joke I actually asked on the VDJ forum if Atomix had 100 million dollars to spare :)
They are about the same size as algoriddim, so I doubt it!

Quote:
Or would inMusic grab it?

That would make a lot more sense
Much more sense than the AlphaTheta/Pioneer deal ever did
Chino 2:46 PM - 19 July, 2024
Quote:
The fact they made this decision doesn't mean they care about DJs, it just means the concerns we have about it have been validated. We thought it was dodgy, they have decided it is dodgy.

This^.
SpinThis! 3:01 PM - 19 July, 2024
Quote:
Algoriddim is pretty tiny. 20-30 people abased in Munich, Germany.
I doubt they have 100 million dollars lying around

Re-read my entire post. Serato would sell DJ separate from the rest of their other music production offerings. The DJ part wouldn't cost 100 million, probably a fraction of that.

Quote:
Much more sense than the AlphaTheta/Pioneer deal ever did

If you were Serato, why wouldn't you want to sell to one of your biggest hardware partners? My guess is Alpha Theta was the only company to agree to their acquisition terms. inMusic probably thought 5 years was too long to keep supporting their competitors.

What I also found interesting in the video above was they referred to inMusic as "customers" and not a hardware partner. That tells me everything we need to know about their relationship.
Chino 3:04 PM - 19 July, 2024
Quote:
Steve and AJ put a lot of love and effort into the company. If they decide they want to sell it, they have their rights to do so. If they are not interested in the DJ market, that's their choice. They have the right to do so. They deserve to do so.

I agree but they made 2 critical mistakes...

1. Deciding to sell to Alpha Theta.
2. Under estimating the push back.

Had the buyer been an independant 3rd party, the acquisition would have most likely 'sailed thru' without a hitch.
DjSyndic8 4:48 PM - 19 July, 2024
Quote:
Had the buyer been an independant 3rd party, the acquisition would have most likely 'sailed thru' without a hitch.


its not about the sale of Serato but the company thats buying Serato is the issue.

Alpahtheta will have a monopoly over the dj idustry. and that is illegal in todays world,
Chino 2:38 PM - 20 July, 2024
Quote:
Call it a win for us little guys and girls, the consumers! I have very little doubt that the one-time purchase option for Serato DJ Pro would have gone away if this deal had gone through. I guess I'm sympathetic to the owners not getting to sell their company, but I'd bet they can sell it to someone else if they want.

I agree. As mentioned above, the option of the founders selling Serato piece by piece is very real now.
DjLaZaRuSrOcKs 7:33 AM - 22 July, 2024
Official Statement from AlphaTheta and Serato Regarding NZCC’s Ruling on Acquisition

"We are disappointed by the ruling of the New Zealand Commerce Commission against the acquisition. As AlphaTheta and Serato, we believe that the proposed agreement would have accelerated our combined ability to deliver incredible products to DJs and Producers around the world by capitalizing on our complementary expertise while creating significant benefits for the local music technology industry in New Zealand.

Despite the regulatory findings, our organizations have a long history of working together and we steadfastly believe in the merits and benefits of our ongoing partnership as we seek to harness technology to advance the ways artists create and perform music.
“Regardless of the disappointing outcome of the judgment, we remain excited about the future. Through this process we have built on our 15-year relationship with Serato, leading to the commencement of a number of exciting new projects for DJs and Producers.” – Yoshinori Kataoka, President, and CEO, AlphaTheta.

“While it’s not the decision we wanted, the Serato business has never been in a better place, and neither has our relationship with AlphaTheta. Through the process, we have not taken our eye away from what we do best, and our pipeline of future innovation is incredibly healthy, including projects with AlphaTheta and other industry partners.” – Young Ly, CEO, Serato.
DjSyndic8 10:02 AM - 22 July, 2024
Quote:
Official Statement from AlphaTheta and Serato Regarding NZCC’s Ruling on Acquisition

"We are disappointed by the ruling of the New Zealand Commerce Commission against the acquisition. As AlphaTheta and Serato, we believe that the proposed agreement would have accelerated our combined ability to deliver incredible products to DJs and Producers around the world by capitalizing on our complementary expertise while creating significant benefits for the local music technology industry in New Zealand.

Despite the regulatory findings, our organizations have a long history of working together and we steadfastly believe in the merits and benefits of our ongoing partnership as we seek to harness technology to advance the ways artists create and perform music.
“Regardless of the disappointing outcome of the judgment, we remain excited about the future. Through this process we have built on our 15-year relationship with Serato, leading to the commencement of a number of exciting new projects for DJs and Producers.” – Yoshinori Kataoka, President, and CEO, AlphaTheta.

“While it’s not the decision we wanted, the Serato business has never been in a better place, and neither has our relationship with AlphaTheta. Through the process, we have not taken our eye away from what we do best, and our pipeline of future innovation is incredibly healthy, including projects with AlphaTheta and other industry partners.” – Young Ly, CEO, Serato.


Thanks DjLaZaRuSrOcKs.
I think the boys mentioned this above:)
Chino 12:40 AM - 23 July, 2024
Quote:
"We have not taken our eye away from what we do best, and our pipeline of future innovation is incredibly healthy, including projects with AlphaTheta and other industry partners.” – Young Ly, CEO, Serato.

Please release a completely dedicated Serato Studio controller since Serato & Alpha Theta are such great partners.

Hopefully, Serato can encourage their 'partner' Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) to continue developing & releasing firmware updates for their Toraiz SP-16 sampler. Or release an MK2 version.

Maybe Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) will help their partner- Serato develop a Serato DJ Pro embedded controller and/or mixer??
Chino 12:51 AM - 23 July, 2024
Serato could also ask their inMusic Brand 'partner' to develop a Serato Studio controller. InMusic Brand owns Akai, so they definitely have experience making music production gear.

Roland is another great 'partner' that makes music production gear.
The Return of Dj Sparky 3.14 2:39 PM - 23 July, 2024
InMusic made some noise to cock block the Serato sale,

personally I'd be reviewing any future partnership/agreements with InMusic
Chino 4:00 PM - 23 July, 2024
Quote:
InMusic made some noise to cock block the Serato sale,

Personally, I'd be reviewing any future partnership/agreements with InMusic.

Well, Serato's founders (Steve & AJ) did refer to inMusic Brand as a "CUSTOMER" NOT partner in the interview listed above.

Their language(wording) might be a sneak peak into the damaged business relationship between Serato & inMusic Brand.

IF an individual or business caused me to lose millions of dollars, I would never do business with them again. I would definitely take that as a personal attack!!
DJ STU-C 5:10 PM - 23 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
InMusic made some noise to cock block the Serato sale,

Personally, I'd be reviewing any future partnership/agreements with InMusic.

Well, Serato's founders (Steve & AJ) did refer to inMusic Brand as a "CUSTOMER" NOT partner in the interview listed above.

Their language(wording) might be a sneak peak into the damaged business relationship between Serato & inMusic Brand.

IF an individual or business caused me to lose millions of dollars, I would never do business with them again. I would definitely take that as a personal attack!!


The case would have been looked at anyway, it’s impossible to complete a merger without these bodies authorising it. If it looked dodgy it would have been picked up on.

The other issue, you’re looking at business in the same way you look at conversations on the internet. People running mature businesses don’t see things as ‘personal attacks’, it’s just business, which is why Microsoft and Apple support each others software, and Samsung supply screens for iPhones, Sony supply camera sensors to other camera brands etc.
metroplex2005 9:34 PM - 23 July, 2024
Quote:
InMusic made some noise to cock block the Serato sale,


+1

With a lot of help from a loud minority who think they are particularly important (what does that remind me of...).


Quote:
personally I'd be reviewing any future partnership/agreements with InMusic


That's exactly what I think will happen.

And even more.

I'll venture a bold prediction:

That's it for Serato DJ.

In the long term (due to a lack of financial background) the further development of SDJ will more or less be stopped, the staff will be reduced, the focus will be on the newer/younger project (studio) and then everyone will cry again because SDJ is not moving forward.

And while I'm laughing out loud and posting my mean comments, some people here can pat themselves on the back and self-righteously praise themselves for their disservice here and celebrate themselves as the saviors of the entire DJ industry.

But of course that's just a very far-fetched assumption on my part, it has nothing to do with experience, everything will definitely be much better and more amazing now...
Chino 12:41 AM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
But of course that's just a very far-fetched assumption on my part, it has nothing to do with experience, everything will definitely be much better and more amazing now...

I trust a company's actions not what they say. The bottom line is that personally, I would rather continue supporting Serato as an independent company over Serato under Alpha Theta.

Everytime a DJ purchases a new Serato controller there is a licensing fee built into the price of the hardware. By default, we (DJs) continually support Serato even tho many of us already purchased a SDJ Pro license & all the expansion packs. I'm fine with that & will continue to buy new products- like a completely dedicated Serato Studio controller (hint hint @Serato).

What I'm NOT ok with is having to deal with a DJ software subscription or a company like Alpha Theta who treats their customer base as disposable cash cows.
nik39 12:49 AM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
With a lot of help from a loud minority who think they are particularly important (what does that remind me of...).

LOL 😂 You can't leave it out, right? Complaining and bitching about minorities and cancel culture and "wokeness" right?

Quote:
That's it for Serato DJ.

In the long term (due to a lack of financial background)

Haha. Glad that we have experts like you.

Quote:
But of course that's just a very far-fetched assumption on my part, it has nothing to do with experience

Obviously.


Quote:
I trust a company's actions not what they say. The bottom line is that personally, I would rather continue supporting Serato as an independent company over Serato under Alpha Theta.

Everytime a DJ purchases a new Serato controller there is a licensing fee built into the price of the hardware. By default, we (DJs) continually support Serato even tho many of us already purchased a SDJ Pro license & all the expansion packs. I'm fine with that & will continue to buy new products- like a completely dedicated Serato Studio controller (hint hint @Serato).

What I'm NOT ok with is having to deal with a DJ software subscription or a company like Alpha Theta who treats their customer base as disposable cash cows.

+1 on everything you said.

It seems to me that ATC has to follow what their owners want. And it has nothing to do with ideaa or culture - it has to do with money, and getting the most profit.
Chino 1:10 AM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
It seems to me that ATC has to follow what their owners want. And it has nothing to do with idea or culture - it has to do with money, and getting the most profit.

THIS^!!
DJ Solero 7:03 AM - 24 July, 2024
I am so so happy, the Pioneer / Serato Deal wont happen.
Serato is strong and innovative enough to survive. Serato just need some strong Hardware-Partner like Roland, Yamaha or else.

The Pioneer / Serato Deal had result in a massive CashCow situation for us customers, like Rekordbox already is. Wake up DJs and fight against this subscription bullshit.
DjSyndic8 7:25 AM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
I am so so happy, the Pioneer / Serato Deal wont happen.
Serato is strong and innovative enough to survive. Serato just need some strong Hardware-Partner like Roland, Yamaha or else.

The Pioneer / Serato Deal had result in a massive CashCow situation for us customers, like Rekordbox already is. Wake up DJs and fight against this subscription bullshit.


Before we even get to that, What we all gather from this is the owners of Serato wants to sellup and retire,

So first thing Serao should do is find a CEO that the owners can trust and then, find a way where the serato owners can retire and still get payed what they are worth.

Let the CEO run the company and keep Serato in Serato hands, if Inmusic wants to be part of Serato then they should buy in, as should other companies that wants to contribute to Serato as a a whole. other DJ Companies should buy shares in Serato too if they dont want Alphatheta to outright own Serato,

This is how Serato stocks will go up in value,

once all this is out of the way then Serato can get back to bussines, in improving or innovating the DJ software game.

just my 2cents.
Chino 3:43 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
What we all gather from this is that the owners(founders) of Serato want to sell and retire(maybe re-invest in NZ?)

So the first thing Serato should do is find a CEO with a strong vision for the future of DJing and then, find a way where the Serato owners can retire and still get payed what they are worth.

I agree. I also think Serato should heavily invest in itself by manufactoring their own hardware. Cut out all the middle men & do business directly with the factories in China & Taiwan that make all the hardware.

For example, Chinese factories will sell unbranded DJ lighting direct to consumers at a fraction of the cost that Chauvet or ADJ would charge. Now imagine the negotiating power Serato has if they buy in bulk.

If the founders really want to re-invest in NZ maybe they can invest in DJ hardware manufactoring?

I would definitely buy a Serato branded controller, mixer and/or deck.
DjSyndic8 3:45 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
What we all gather from this is that the owners(founders) of Serato want to sell and retire(maybe re-invest in NZ?)

So the first thing Serato should do is find a CEO with a strong vision for the future of DJing and then, find a way where the Serato owners can retire and still get payed what they are worth.

I agree. I also think Serato should heavily invest in itself by manufactoring their own hardware. Cut out all the middle men & do business directly with the factories in China & Taiwan that make all the hardware.

For example, Chinese factories will sell unbranded DJ lighting direct to consumers at a fraction of the cost that Chauvet or ADJ would charge. Now imagine the negotiating power Serato has if they buy in bulk.

If the founders really want to re-invest in NZ maybe they can invest in DJ hardware manufactoring?

I would definitely buy a Serato branded controller, mixer and/or deck.


+1 agree
Big Pops 4:08 PM - 24 July, 2024
+ 1 , also agree, a standalone branded player with Serato DJ Pro would be a killer.
Chino 4:10 PM - 24 July, 2024
I believe Serato UNDER estimates itself and what it is capable of!

Serato your a ♥️ brand but more importantly- you have the trust, respect & customer base of the largest DJ market in the world!! Its time to leverage that strength!!!
Despo 5:00 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:

I agree. I also think Serato should heavily invest in itself by manufactoring their own hardware. Cut out all the middle men & do business directly with the factories in China & Taiwan that make all the hardware.


I'm gonna need a DM from you on where to buy
metroplex2005 5:18 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
LOL 😂 You can't leave it out, right? Complaining and bitching about minorities and cancel culture and "wokeness" right?


Unfortunately, I have to disappoint you.

Actually, I meant the loud minority of forum users who loudly spoke out against the takeover by AT with a lot of panic, hysteria, "german angst", etc.

Roughly like the loud minority here in the forum, who are already gasping for support for SDJ 2 days after the release of a new OS.

Or the loud minority who, in some cases still, mock the lack of support for Rane legacy hardware.

Or the loud minority who are still crying about the lack of support for the Xone:96.

Or the loud minority who for decades have considered features (using random requests like sync, internal effects, stems, or tons of nonsense here) to be the most urgent task and are making a fuss about it.

Or, or, or...
There are so many examples.

And in the end, these loud minorities make up less than 5% of registered users.

This is quite comparable to the hooligans in European football. They are also loud, fanatical, convinced of their point of view, feel as if they have the sovereignty of interpretation and are willing to do almost anything to somehow get their Aganda through.

Although they are only a tiny fraction of a fan scene and in the long run they do more harm than good to their club.

In this particular case, I see it exactly the same way.
From my point of view, this vocal minority has definitely stirred up sentiment against the deal with their appearance here (and elsewhere), and that doesn't go unnoticed in NZ either.
And in my opinion, it achieved a pyrrhic victory.

This has caused significant (financial) damage and disadvantage to the Serato DJ product, the company, the employees and the owners in the long term, which will also have long-term effects for everyone (Why sell a working cash cow when it's still working well...).

Nik, I firmly reject your malicious insinuation that I want to use my post to make a subliminal political statement or to mock people.

I'd rather leave that to you at the moment.


Quote:
Quote:
agree but you have to follow laws in every country,

Always. Unless your name is Trump 😂

I was commenting more on the moral question, not the regulatory side.

Although you are a bit more direct😂😂😂


Quote:
Haha. Glad that we have experts like you.

For God's sake, I would never go that far.
That's why we (luckily) have you.
And no one wants to dispute your position here, you simply fill the role too perfectly. And (almost) no one would dare to doubt it.
Where would we end up if this were to happen here?


Quote:
Quote:
But of course that's just a very far-fetched assumption on my part, it has nothing to do with experience

Obviously.

Possibly.

But maybe I will also laugh heartily and spitefully (once again) and be delighted when my predictions come true (once again).
And then think back with joy to this interesting conversation.

Even though I really whish for the opposite...

And until then, have a fantastic day😊
Chino 5:54 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:
I'm gonna need a DM from you on where to buy

Please check your DM.
Despo 9:38 PM - 24 July, 2024
Quote:


In this particular case, I see it exactly the same way.
From my point of view, this vocal minority has definitely stirred up sentiment against the deal with their appearance here (and elsewhere), and that doesn't go unnoticed in NZ either.
And in my opinion, it achieved a pyrrhic victory.




Man somebody seems miffed. As if our bitching here had any impact on a multi million dollar deal. And if we were a minority I'd doubt our opinion would hold much weight.

I'm sure these multi million dollar corporations need you for them to white knight on here to defend monopolistic business practices, you'll own nothing and be happy.
Chino 12:58 AM - 25 July, 2024
Quote:
Man somebody seems miffed. As if our bitching here had any impact on a multi million dollar deal. And if we were a minority I'd doubt our opinion would hold much weight.

Exactly! These companies could care less about the opinions of DJs on this forum.

Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) don't care about the opinions of their own customers on their forum let alone here on Serato's forum!
Chino 1:19 AM - 25 July, 2024
Quote:
This has caused significant (financial) damage and disadvantage to the Serato DJ product, the company, the employees and the owners in the long term, which will also have long-term effects for everyone (Why sell a working cash cow when it's still working well...)

Your statements contradict what Serato's CEO Young Ly said...

"The Serato business has never been in a better place."
Caley Martin 2:09 AM - 25 July, 2024
Quote:
Or the loud minority who are still crying about the lack of support for the Xone:96.


IT ME!
DjSyndic8 3:18 AM - 25 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
Or the loud minority who are still crying about the lack of support for the Xone:96.


IT ME!


LOL
Chino 12:21 PM - 28 July, 2024
Quote:
Actually, I meant the loud minority of forum users who loudly spoke out against the takeover by AT

So, we should just quietly accept Alpha Theta(Pioneer DJ) having a 'monopoly' over the DJ industry?! No thank you.
siroc5 3:34 PM - 29 July, 2024
I understand the fear of Serato DJ Pro going to Alpha Theta and it becoming subscription based. But the halt of acquisition of Serato was due to monopoly laws from NZ not because the payment issue was going to change. With that said what would be the difference if InMusic had made the acquisition? Wouldn't it still be a monopoly issue again? Wouldn't InMusic especially having the umbrella of brands under it be a concern as well? Alpha Theta -Pioneer would have the same concerns that InMusic had in terms of inside divulging of its proprietary new hadware to the competitor when trying to be Serato compatible? Do we need a company to make the acquisition that is not making DJ hardware that links to Serato?
DjSyndic8 4:40 PM - 29 July, 2024
dunno maybe Alphatheta has a lot of money hungry investors that wants a lot of cash flow and only interested in Serato to make more money with subscription just like Rekordbox where to use Rekorbox 7 you have to go on a subscription, even if you already own rekordbox outright.

if this happens to Serato a lot of DJs will be switching to a DJ software they might not like.
Ragman 4:52 PM - 29 July, 2024
Quote:
I understand the fear of Serato DJ Pro going to Alpha Theta and it becoming subscription based. But the halt of acquisition of Serato was due to monopoly laws from NZ not because the payment issue was going to change. With that said what would be the difference if InMusic had made the acquisition? Wouldn't it still be a monopoly issue again? Wouldn't InMusic especially having the umbrella of brands under it be a concern as well? Alpha Theta -Pioneer would have the same concerns that InMusic had in terms of inside divulging of its proprietary new hadware to the competitor when trying to be Serato compatible? Do we need a company to make the acquisition that is not making DJ hardware that links to Serato?

Well, the difference is that Alpha Theta already has a competing product that is oddly similar to Serato DJ Pro. It's like Coca Cola buying it's competitor Pepsi. Do you really think they will keep Pepsi after the purchase. If the purchase would have went through, per the agreement, they would have 5 years to maintain Serato. After that time it would be stupid to maintain two competing products.

Once they own the source code, they will reverse engineer it and merge it with Rekordbox. IMO of course.
siroc5 5:02 PM - 29 July, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I understand the fear of Serato DJ Pro going to Alpha Theta and it becoming subscription based. But the halt of acquisition of Serato was due to monopoly laws from NZ not because the payment issue was going to change. With that said what would be the difference if InMusic had made the acquisition? Wouldn't it still be a monopoly issue again? Wouldn't InMusic especially having the umbrella of brands under it be a concern as well? Alpha Theta -Pioneer would have the same concerns that InMusic had in terms of inside divulging of its proprietary new hadware to the competitor when trying to be Serato compatible? Do we need a company to make the acquisition that is not making DJ hardware that links to Serato?

Well, the difference is that Alpha Theta already has a competing product that is oddly similar to Serato DJ Pro. It's like Coca Cola buying it's competitor Pepsi. Do you really think they will keep Pepsi after the purchase. If the purchase would have went through, per the agreement, they would have 5 years to maintain Serato. After that time it would be stupid to maintain two competing products.

Once they own the source code, they will reverse engineer it and merge it with Rekordbox. IMO of course.


Overlooked Rekordbox becuz i dont us it. But you are right in terms of it sticking around under PIO instead of InMusic.
Chino 9:00 PM - 29 July, 2024
Quote:
I understand the fear of Serato DJ Pro going to Alpha Theta and it becoming subscription based. But the halt of acquisition of Serato was due to monopoly laws from NZ not because the payment issue was going to change. With that said what would be the difference if InMusic had made the acquisition?

inMusic Brand has a terrible record of gutting companies & firing their employees. Just do a google search on the recent Moog acquisition.

Serato needs to remain an independent company under new leadership.
DjSyndic8 5:29 AM - 30 July, 2024
Quote:
Well, the difference is that Alpha Theta already has a competing product that is oddly similar to Serato DJ Pro. It's like Coca Cola buying it's competitor Pepsi. Do you really think they will keep Pepsi after the purchase. If the purchase would have went through, per the agreement, they would have 5 years to maintain Serato. After that time it would be stupid to maintain two competing products.

Once they own the source code, they will reverse engineer it and merge it with Rekordbox. IMO of course.


agree

Quote:
inMusic Brand has a terrible record of gutting companies & firing their employees. Just do a google search on the recent Moog acquisition.

Serato needs to remain an independent company under new leadership.


agree
nik39 11:21 PM - 31 March, 2025
Sold (almost) ....

To a different company called "Tiny".

www.newswire.ca
Chino 12:25 AM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
Sold (almost) ....

To a different company called "Tiny".

www.newswire.ca

Oh wow! Appreciate the info.
Chino 12:59 AM - 1 April, 2025
The acquisition bolsters Tiny's portfolio with a growing and profitable software business with opportunities for further expansion,” it said.

Tiny’s ethos was: “We buy wonderful businesses for the long term”, it said in the announcement on the deal, adding it had developed a strategic plan to drive accelerated growth.

Overall, this company seems like a great fit for Serato. I'm a fan of my neighbors to the north!
Chino 1:08 AM - 1 April, 2025
From Serato's CEO...

"Tiny is a great home for Serato. They have a proven track record with tech and innovation-led businesses like Metalab, AeroPress and fellow Kiwi company Letterboxd. Importantly they’re not just buying into our business, they’re also buying into the long-term vision we have for it.”

He said: “Over the last 25 years, [they] have given us the opportunity to build something very special - and so a non-negotiable for us in finding a new home for Serato has always been to protect the Serato legacy.
DjLaZaRuSrOcKs 3:05 AM - 1 April, 2025
Cool that a Canadian company has a majority stake in Serato. I hope Serato can accelerate its development now.
Ragman 4:46 AM - 1 April, 2025
This is definitely good news... An official and fitting end to the Alpha Theta nonsense. :-)
Ragman 4:49 AM - 1 April, 2025
HOWEVER, I forgot this is April 1st. So until Serato puts up an official notice, I'm not biting.
nik39 7:23 AM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
HOWEVER, I forgot this is April 1st. So until Serato puts up an official notice, I'm not biting.

Good catch ;)

But I doubt that this is an April's fool joke.

investors.tiny.com
DJ STU-C 9:07 AM - 1 April, 2025
Watch the uproar when there's a large tarrif placed on US customers lol.
Chino 11:36 AM - 1 April, 2025
It's official.
www.linkedin.com

Btw, Andrew is one of the founders of 'Tiny'- the Canadian company that now owns a majority stake of Serato.
Chino 11:41 AM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
Sold (almost) ....


Pending the NZ Commerce Commission's approval.
DjSyndic8 11:56 AM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
Quote:
HOWEVER, I forgot this is April 1st. So until Serato puts up an official notice, I'm not biting.

Good catch ;)

But I doubt that this is an April's fool joke.

investors.tiny.com


maybe it isnt, story was released 31st March 2025
Chino 2:55 PM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
maybe it isn't, story was released 31st March 2025

It's been reported in multiple news outlets in NZ, Canada & here in the U.S.

IF it's a fake April Fools joke then whoever did it is really good at what they do! They deserve a 🍺! I got the first round!!🍻
Ragman 3:26 PM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
Quote:
maybe it isn't, story was released 31st March 2025

It's been reported in multiple news outlets in NZ, Canada & here in the U.S.

IF it's a fake April Fools joke then whoever did it is really good at what they do! They deserve a 🍺! I got the first round!!🍻

LOL! I'm certainly ready for some good news this year.
DjSyndic8 4:27 PM - 1 April, 2025
Watchwww.youtube.com

Is this the proof?
DJ STU-C 4:31 PM - 1 April, 2025
Good, far better than some other dj brand buying it.
DjSyndic8 4:38 PM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
Good, far better than some other dj brand buying it.


I agree DJ Stu-C, hoping for the best:)
Chino 6:17 PM - 1 April, 2025
I'm definitely hopeful! I think this is a good move for Serato!!
DjSyndic8 7:26 PM - 1 April, 2025
Quote:
I'm definitely hopeful! I think this is a good move for Serato!!


+1