DJing Discussion

Forum
 DJing Discussion
Harmonic Mixing 101: How to key songs and mix harmonically
This area is for discussion about DJing in general. Please remember the community rules when posting and try to be polite and inclusive.

Harmonic Mixing 101: How to key songs and mix harmonically

Strom Carlson 12:02 AM - 5 October, 2009
The following will teach you some basic music theory, then help you use that theory to key your songs and mix harmonically. If you have a piano keyboard available, or something equivalent in software, that you can use to play along with the lesson, it will go a long way to helping you understand these otherwise very abstract concepts.

Note that this post is an updated, expanded, and corrected version of an earlier post. Feedback is always appreciated. If any part of this tutorial leaves you confused, don't hesitate to ask for clarification.

--- NOTES AND SCALES ---
Western music is almost always composed of the same twelve notes. These twelve notes comprise the "diatonic scale," and each one has a name. The easiest way to visualize the notes and their relation to each other is to look at a piano keyboard:

www.resoguit.com

The white notes are called "naturals," and each note has a name: C, D, E, F, G, A, and B.

The black notes are called "flats" or "sharps," and each has two names. The note between C and D, for example, can be called both "C sharp" and "D flat," and these are written "C#" and "Db" for short. Note that B and E have no associated sharp, while C and F have no associated flat.

If you play two notes that have the same name, but are separated by twelve half-steps, those notes are said to be an "octave" apart.

You can play the twelve notes of the chromatic scale on your keyboard and hear how the relationship between each of the twelve notes is the same. Each of the twelve notes is said to be a "half step" apart. It follows that if you play notes that are two half steps apart, such as C and D, those notes are said to be a "whole step" apart.

The twelve notes of the chromatic scale are arranged into groups of seven notes called "diatonic scales," the only two of which you'll have to know about for the vast majority of your DJ career are the "major scale" and the "minor scale."

- THE MAJOR SCALE -
The easiest major scale to learn is the C major scale, which comprises the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and the C an octave above the C at the base of the scale. Since the scale starts and ends at C, C is said to be the "tonic" of the scale. If you look at the relationships between the keys, you'll note that there are whole steps between most of the notes, with two exceptions:

C
whole step
D
whole step
E
half-step
F
whole step
G
whole step
A
whole step
B
half step
C

Note how E, the third note in the scale, is two whole steps (four semitones) above C. This relationship is called a "major third"; E is thus a major third above C.

All major scales have the same relationships of whole steps and half steps between their notes. If you were to raise the tonic a half-step from C to Db and play a Db major scale, you'd play Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D. Notice how, as you play both scales on your keyboard, they have similar feels to them, despite having different tonics.

At this point, you should be able to select any note on your keyboard and play a major scale based on that note, using the same series of whole and half steps.

- THE MINOR SCALE -
The easiest minor scale to learn is the A minor scale, which, like the C major scale, uses only the naturals on the keyboard: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and the A one octave above the A which starts the scale. Note how there are the same number of whole and half steps, but that the relationship between those steps is somewhat different:
A
whole step
B
half step
C
whole step
D
whole step
E
half-step
F
whole step
G
whole step
A

In this case, the third note in the scale is only three semitones above the tonic. This relationship is called a "minor third"; C is thus a minor third above A.

Like all major scales, all minor scales have the same relationships of whole and half steps between their notes. If you were to modulate up a half-step and play a Bb minor scale, you'd play Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb. Notice how, just like the major scale, as you play both scales on your keyboard, they have similar feels to them, despite having different tonics.

At this point, you should be able to select any note on your keyboard and play a minor scale based on that note, using the same series of whole and half steps.

--- KEYING SONGS ---
All songs that you'll hear are in at least one key. The vast majority are in only one key, while a few change keys (this change is called a "modulation"). For now, we won't worry about modulation, but be very aware that it's out there more than you think.

To find the key of a song, you have to listen to it carefully. All songs (or at least those that are at least somewhat interesting) work on the principle of building up and releasing tension. Most songs that you listen to will seem to "resolve" or "come to rest" on a certain note; this note is usually the tonic of the key in which the song is written. Generally, the melody of a song will tend to end on the tonic.

Be aware that finding the key is very much a holistic process, and that you can't robotically use a single technique to find the key. You have to develop a feel for it.

Let's start with an easy song to key (and one you likely have in your library already): "Low" by Flo Rida (album cut).

The melody of the verse is almost entirely sung in one note: A. The bass which plays at the end of each phrase in the verse also plays only one note: A. Furthermore, there's a staccato synth riff in the background which alternates between two A notes an octave apart.

At this point, if you hum an A or play an A on an instrument, you'll notice how the song seems to revolve around that single note. You can confidently say at this point that the tonic of this song is A. Now, you have to determine if this is A major or A minor.

If you listen to the verse and play along on your instrument, you'll notice that the note following the repeated A in the melody is C. C, not coincidentally, is a minor third above A. If you try playing Db, which is a major third above A, notice how it sounds very discordant and "off," as though it doesn't belong in the song. This provides strong evidence that the song is not in A major; in fact, if you play any flat or sharp, each one sounds discordant, If you play an A minor scale, by comparison, every note seems to fit the song. Thus, you can conclude that this song is in A minor.

This song is slightly unusual in that it changes to a different key during its bridge. Notice how the general tone of the song seems to change, and how the tonic sounds like it's shifting upwards. If you key the song again during the bridge, you'll likely dedude that the song is in C major. Note how C major and A minor share the same set of notes; we'll learn more about this relationship later.

Let's listen to another pop song you probably already have and figure out its key: "Lovegame" by Lady Gaga (album cut).

First, the synth riff that leads off the song provides a clue:

B B B G F# E E E F# D

The other big clue comes once the chorus starts. The chorus is only two notes: B and D, which, not coincidentally, are a minor third apart. Note how the entire song seems to want to come to rest on B. Thus, the song is in B minor.

Let's do it again, but start analyzing in more detail. Listen to "Down" by Jay Sean, and listen to the melody of the introduction:

Baby are you (D E D E)
Down down down down down (F# E D C# D B)
Down (F# G F# E D)
Down (F# G F# E)

Even if the (D E D E)
Sky is falling down (F# E D C# D B)
Down (F# G F# E D)
Down (F# G F# E)

The song starts on D, and goes D E F#, which gives you a clue that the song may be in D major. But is D the tonic of the song? The big hint comes as the song transitions into the first verse:

You oughta know (D D C# C# D)

Notice how, as the verse settles on D at the end of its first line, the tension in the song seems to release, and the song feels like it's come to rest momentarily. D seems to be the note on which the song resolves over and over, even as the chorus begins:

Our great escape (D D E F# E)
So baby don't worry (D D E F# F# D)

Again, notice how the tension seems to release as the first line of the chorus comes to rest on D. Thus, you can confidently say that D is the tonic of the song, and that since F# is a major third above D, the song is in D major.

Now, let's do one that's a little more challenging: "Kids" by MGMT (album cut)

First, let's analyze the synth riff that leads off the song:

A B C# E F# G# F# E B C# B

If you assume that "A" is the tonic, then you have almost your entire scale in the first riff, suggesting A major.

The melody of the song seems to resolve to A.

Furthermore, the second half of the synth riff resolves to A:

A B C# B A B A F# A

This is a very somber, dreary, and melancholy-sounding song, so you may be inclined to think that it's in F# minor, but A is a better fit to the ears than F#.

(For a more detailed compositional analysis of this song, see blog.fixyourmix.com)

- WRITING KEY NAMES -
Major keys are noted as just the name of the tonic. So, for example, "Down" is in the key of D (spoken as "D" or, sometimes, "D major").

Minor keys are noted by affixing "m" after the name of the tonic. "Lovegame" is in the key of Bm (spoken as "B minor"). If you have a minor key with a flat as the tonic, you follow the same rule; a song in D flat minor is noted as "Dbm."

At this point, you should practice keying songs in your library. You will no doubt have trouble and make mistakes, but as with any skill, the more you practice, the better you'll get.


--- MIXING HARMONICALLY ---
Once you get the hang of keying songs, it's time to start mixing them together. The easiest harmonic mix is between two songs in the same key. Since both songs share the same tonic and the same scale, they will mix together smoothly and without trouble. The rules for mixing harmonically between other keys are fairly simple and easier to remember once you learn a few new concepts.

- Relative Major and Minor -
By now, if you've been keying songs for a bit, you may notice that for every scale, there are two keys which share the same notes. C major and A minor, for example, both use only naturals, while F major and D minor both have only one flat in their scale. These are called "relative keys," and they are a valuable tool in mixing.

Let's look at C major and A minor. Both share the same scale, but have different tonics. Notice how C is the minor third above A. C major is the "relative major" of A minor, and A minor is the "relative minor" of C major.

If you mix two songs together in differing but relative keys, they will generally sound like a smooth fit. Mixing into the relative minor will generally feel like you're making the mood darker, somber, or more soulful, while mixing into the relative major will generally feel like you're making the mood happier, sunnier, and more upbeat.

- Parallel Major and Minor -
What about two songs with the same tonic but different scales? These are called the "parallel major" and "parallel minor." Mixing between two songs in parallel keys is possible, but tricky. If, for example, you compare the C major and C minor scales, you'll notice that C major has no flats or sharps, while C minor has three: Eb, Ab, and Bb. There is the potential for discordant, clashing sounds if you mix carelessly between the parallel major and minor, so you will have to use your ear to determine if your particular mix makes sense.

- The Circle of Fifths -
Finally, we come to the third harmonic mixing technique: the Circle of Fifths. Take a look at the image while we discuss: en.wikipedia.org

The Circle of Fifths basically shows you the relationships between the different keys. Notice how, as you traverse the circle, the number of flats or sharps in the key signature increases or decreases by one. This makes mixes betwen songs in adjacent keys on the circle of fifths sound almost as smooth as same-key or relative-key mixes; as with parallel-key mixes, however, trust your ears and not your eyes. Not all songs in adjacent keys will work well together.

For a more detailed explanation of the Circle of Fifths, see its Wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org

As an aside: if you're familiar with the "Camelot Wheel" system, you'll recognize the Circle of Fifths; the Camelot Wheel is essentially a dumbed-down Circle of Fifths designed to be less intimidating to DJs who have never learned any music theory.


--- THINGS TO REMEMBER ---
Your ears are your most important tool in harmonic mixing. If a mix sounds off or discordant, but your tags claim the songs are in identical or compatible keys, then you should trust your ears, not your tags.

Don't worry if you make a mistake tagging a song. When you notice that you've made a mistake, go back and re-key the song, and listen to what elements of the song made you misinterpret the key. Over time, you'll find that you make fewer and fewer mistakes.

While it's a bad idea to overlay songs in incompatible, clashing keys, you don't necessarily have to be constrained by the Circle of Fifths while you're mixing. Often, a great mix comes by overlaying the opening synth riff of one song over the percussion-only break of another, even if the keys would clash severely. If, for example, you play a song in B major, and then mix into a song in C major without overlaying any of the tonal elements, the one-semitone modulation will generally feel uplifting and exciting.

Remember: you have the final say. Don't be constrained by the rules; instead, use the rules as guidelines to help you improve your performance.



-----------

Feedback on this post is greatly appreciated. If any part of this tutorial has left you confused, don't hesitate to ask for clarification.
CMOS 8:20 PM - 5 October, 2009
Nice detailed description. Im gonna start trying this stuff out. The link in the 1st paragraph, was it supposed to show a piano keyboard or that resonator guitar like it does now?
Strom Carlson 8:22 PM - 5 October, 2009
Quote:
Nice detailed description. Im gonna start trying this stuff out. The link in the 1st paragraph, was it supposed to show a piano keyboard or that resonator guitar like it does now?

Er, crap. It was supposed to be this:

www.resoguit.com

copy/paste errors for the win!
CMOS 8:26 PM - 5 October, 2009
Im sriously gonna try this out.

Between you dissin my mixing on stickam for not being harmonic lol, and hearing Audio1 talk about the ways that harmonic mixing can build or drop energy in a mix, seems like its something worthwhile to learn.

Is this stuff mainly applied to EDM mixing or does it work all over?
Strom Carlson 8:29 PM - 5 October, 2009
Quote:
you dissin my mixing on stickam for not being harmonic lol

Haha, I was only half-serious.

Quote:
Is this stuff mainly applied to EDM mixing or does it work all over?

Pretty much every song you hear is in a specific key, unless it's some crazy atonal experimental stuff with nothing but screams and chainsaws and animal farts.

If you need help keying a song, post it here, and I'll help you key it by showing you what to look for.
sixxx 8:32 PM - 5 October, 2009
So, I don't know how to play the harmonica. Can I still mix my songs harmonically? :P
Strom Carlson 8:33 PM - 5 October, 2009
Quote:
So, I don't know how to play the harmonica. Can I still mix my songs harmonically? :P

You only get one present for harmonica this year instead of eight.
DJ Michael Basic 9:24 PM - 5 October, 2009
8 presents isn't all it's cracked up to be...remember, we're jews...so 8 presents turns out to be an 8 pack of socks, you just get 1 per day.
sixxx 9:30 PM - 5 October, 2009
hahahaha
djSMIRK 5:46 AM - 6 October, 2009
i think this is an easier read:

www.harmonic-mixing.com

i tried this for a recent mix.. i liked the result
Strom Carlson 6:02 AM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
i think this is an easier read:

www.harmonic-mixing.com

i tried this for a recent mix.. i liked the result

It's an easier read, and what it does talk about is covered towards the end of my article, but it doesn't teach you anything theory-wise. It just goes "Hey! You! Yeah, you! Mr. Cretin! Here's something idiot-proof and drool-proof. Use it! Also buy our software."

Granted, it's an approach that will work with many DJs who are too intimidated or lazy to start learning music theory, but you're better off if you learn what's actually going on instead of being the harmonic mixing equivalent of a "wavie." And while you technically aren't committing argumentum ad ignorantiam with the "this is too complicated so I'm not going to learn it" argument, that approach isn't exactly something to strive for,

Of course, if Mixed In Key LLC actually taught you the theory you need to be able to key songs without their software, it would cannibalize their sales. So, playing the "follow the money" game, it's financially beneficial for them to keep their customers in the dark and say "Oh, keys are big and scary and complicated. Here's something so you don't have to learn or think beyond repeatedly counting to four."

Hell, even the way the software works sounds draconian and obfuscated:

Quote:
Mixed In Key software must connect online in order for the application to work properly. First, Mixed In Key scans music files on your computer. Once the files are scanned, only the melodic information from those files is sent online for analysis. The file type and file name are never sent online, and Mixed In Key analysis server cannot see which files you are analyzing. Analysis is performed online using our patent-pending algorithm, and the results are sent back to your software for display in "Browse Collection."

The Mixed In Key database stores the melodic information in an effort to enhance the quality of the application. The database will never be sold and will be used only for the purposes of Mixed In Key LLC.

Mixed In Key uses third party vendors and hosting partners to provide the necessary hardware, software, storage, and related technology required to run Mixed In Key software. Although Mixed In Key owns the code, databases, and all rights to the application, you retain all rights to your data. Mixed In Key will make its best efforts to protect your data. Additionally, Mixed In Key does not keep any financial data such as credit card numbers. All payment transactions are secured by third-party vendors such as Google Checkout and PayPal. Mixed In Key never receives confidential information for privacy reasons.

As an information security hobbyist, this kind of license agreement scares the absolute living shit out of me.
ScottyOhh! 1:49 PM - 6 October, 2009
I've recently started harmonic mixing, it really adds to a set. If you will just take the time to find two songs that match harmonically and are within a close enogh BPM range to mix and do it, I assure you that you will love it!

Just a side note, I find that some songs will have more than one tonal center, in this case you can use either center to mix, but usually one of the keys stands out a little more.

And my Mixed in Key works without an internet connection, so Im not sure how they would be able to get any information about my music much less anything else.
DeezNotes 2:08 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
you dissin my mixing on stickam for not being harmonic lol

strom called me out yesterday! haha. sometimes i pay attention to key and other times i don't. its mostly when i'm playing house music that i pay attention, but i still suck at it.
WarpNote 5:42 PM - 6 October, 2009
Thanks for this article Strom!

I got to admit, until now I've only used the "dumbed" camelot wheel, not with Mixed-In-Key, but the free java based software Rapid Evolution -> www.mixshare.com

However a lot of people seem to have issues with their mp3 tags/overviews/loops/cues after using Rapid Evolution, so I wrote up a tutorial on how to use it with Serato software (using OSX 10.5) -> www.serato.com

Also, Rapid Evolution also includes a software piano keyboard.

Not meaning to thread jack this. I'll surely print your article asap, also looking to get a decent piano keyboard soon.
ChadP - Mixed In Key 6:27 PM - 6 October, 2009
Great post, it's nice seeing people get interested in the theory behind the concept of harmonic mixing.

Quote:
Of course, if Mixed In Key LLC actually taught you the theory you need to be able to key songs without their software, it would cannibalize their sales. So, playing the "follow the money" game, it's financially beneficial for them to keep their customers in the dark and say "Oh, keys are big and scary and complicated. Here's something so you don't have to learn or think beyond repeatedly counting to four."


On the contrary, I love educating our software's users on music theory. We're not worried about it cannibalizing our sales at all. Most people just don't have the time to sit down with a keyboard and figure out the key of their music and then tag their songs. That's why guys like BT and Above & Beyond who are practically oozing music theory out of every pore in their bodies still use our software.


Quote:
As an information security hobbyist, this kind of license agreement scares the absolute living shit out of me.


What part of it?
Strom Carlson 7:11 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
On the contrary, I love educating our software's users on music theory. We're not worried about it cannibalizing our sales at all.

Well, of course. Once you already have their money, then you reveal the mystic secrets of the universe.

Why not have a good, well-written "here's how it all works" page on your site? At present, all you have is the most minimal teaser possible, which suggests (to me, anyway) that you're taking the "We believe it's financially beneficial to us to keep our potential customers in the dark and as uneducated as possible" approach, rather than "We believe this knowledge is important. We'd like to sell you a tool that saves you time and effort." Granted, intimidating potential customers into buying your product is a time-honored sales tool, but it doesn't show very much goodwill.

Quote:
Quote:
As an information security hobbyist, this kind of license agreement scares the absolute living shit out of me.

What part of it?

The part where you fail to provide any specification at all for exactly what information is transmitted and stored indefinitely in a database, whether the information is tracked per-user, whether you timestamp everything, etc etc etc. The whole idea of having to upload anything at all rather than doing the analysis entirely on the user's machine strikes me as moderately terrifying; clearly, the company must see some value in keeping a database of everything users have ever keyed, or else it wouldn't go to the trouble and expense of running a service when it would be cheaper and easier to sell standalone software. It doesn't strike me as unlikely that some outfit like RIAA might choose to buy (or, hell, might already own) Mixed In Key LLC or subpoena the database, reverse-engineer the information stored in it, and then, voila: everyone's getting cease-and-desist letters and sued for suspected copyright infringement, whether or not they've actually committed it.

Along these lines, it's very suspicious that there's no "About Us" page on your website. Where is the company located? Who owns the company? What is your telephone number? These are basic things that customers, real or potential, should be able to access without difficulty. I don't know about you, but I like knowing about companies I'm planning on doing business with.
ChadP - Mixed In Key 7:39 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:

The part where you fail to provide any specification at all for exactly what information is transmitted and stored indefinitely in a database, whether the information is tracked per-user, whether you timestamp everything, etc etc etc.


Once the files are scanned, only the melodic information from those files is sent online for analysis.....

...The Mixed In Key database stores the melodic information in an effort to enhance the quality of the application.

Storing the melodic information is user assignable - if you don't want it stored this feature can be turned off in the preferences.

Quote:
Along these lines, it's very suspicious that there's no "About Us" page on your website. Where is the company located?


Washington DC.

Quote:
Who owns the company?


Yakov Vorobyev

Quote:
What is your telephone number?


I'll send it to you in a private message.

Quote:
These are basic things that customers, real or potential, should be able to access without difficulty. I don't know about you, but I like knowing about companies I'm planning on doing business with.


All you had to do was ask :)
Strom Carlson 8:04 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Quote:
The part where you fail to provide any specification at all for exactly what information is transmitted and stored indefinitely in a database, whether the information is tracked per-user, whether you timestamp everything, etc etc etc.


Once the files are scanned, only the melodic information from those files is sent online for analysis.....

...The Mixed In Key database stores the melodic information in an effort to enhance the quality of the application.

I'm sorry, but that's not a specification. It's hand-waving and obfuscation. "Here's a correct-sounding answer. Won't you please stop asking questions now?"

"Melodic Information" could technically be anything. Without knowing what you consider "melodic information," it could very easily be the song itself, since an audio recording of music is arguably nothing but "melodic information." And since software exists for identifying audio recordings based on short clips, I reiterate my point that this kind of thing is terrifying.

Quote:
Storing the melodic information is user assignable - if you don't want it stored this feature can be turned off in the preferences.

Then this should be evident in your privacy policy. Ideally, storing the information should be an opt-in feature rather than an opt-out one, but I remain unconvinced that there's not some other unspoken reason for maintaining such a database that compels you to make this a not-discussed opt-out feature.

Quote:
Quote:
Along these lines, it's very suspicious that there's no "About Us" page on your website. Where is the company located?

Washington DC.

Quote:
Who owns the company?

Yakov Vorobyev

Quote:
What is your telephone number?

I'll send it to you in a private message.

Quote:
These are basic things that customers, real or potential, should be able to access without difficulty. I don't know about you, but I like knowing about companies I'm planning on doing business with.

All you had to do was ask :)

No, sorry, that's not good enough. I should not have to ask for this kind of information; I should be able to go to your website and look it up.

Your business practices, at face value, still seem somewhat dubious to me.
DPR250R 8:44 PM - 6 October, 2009
....anyway....

Strom... will you not mix tracks together if they are not in key.... even if the energy level or arrangment of the track within your setlist makes sense...

Just curious.... I am not of the musical ability to tell whether something is in key or not.

I do my best to keep the people moving, stick to the basic mixing/dj mechanics, of course mix to tracks that "sound" ok together to me... and avoid crop dusting the floor with a shitty or mis-timed jam.

But this def interests me...
Strom Carlson 8:52 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Strom... will you not mix tracks together if they are not in key.... even if the energy level or arrangment of the track within your setlist makes sense...

There are ways around mixing two tracks together that are in incompatible keys -- the simplest is to not overlay anything that has tonal information in it. This essentially means that you overlay the percussion break of one song with the tonal portion of another.

The only thing to watch out for in this kind of situation is to make sure that the key shift doesn't make the second song feel "off" -- a bizarre modulation can make an otherwise good song feel dreary and miserable.

Quote:
I am not of the musical ability to tell whether something is in key or not.

That kind of thing will come with practice and experience. I never used to be able to hear key clashes; all I knew was that something didn't sound quite right with the mix, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now, of course, key clashes stick out like sore thumbs. Great for my own mixing, but not so great when listening to DJs who don't mix harmonically.
DJ Alkemy 10:31 PM - 6 October, 2009
I doubt ANY world renowned DJ has actually studied this stuff..I may be wrong and this is no potshot, I just think that this is going a tad overboard...I would never pay no attention to this sort of stuff and would prefer to practice at home and see what tracks sound nice mixed with other tracks, regardless if they are compatible in key or not..in fact, I would find it more of a challenge to do that...like I said, I aint upstarting here, I just think that there are times when we can take what we do waaaay too seriously, we are mixing records for christs sake, lets be honest about it.
DPR250R 10:53 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
I doubt ANY world renowned DJ has actually studied this stuff..I may be wrong and this is no potshot, I just think that this is going a tad overboard...I would never pay no attention to this sort of stuff and would prefer to practice at home and see what tracks sound nice mixed with other tracks, regardless if they are compatible in key or not..in fact, I would find it more of a challenge to do that...like I said, I aint upstarting here, I just think that there are times when we can take what we do waaaay too seriously, we are mixing records for christs sake, lets be honest about it.


IMO... depends on the genre.... length of blend... and where the songs are being blended.

I have listened to some of my mixes and while "in the mix" thought to myself... this shit is hot...

then when listening to it the next day.... thought to myself... something is wrong.....

To each his own...

I appreciate the education Strom.... Basic is the first person I remember stressing it from this forum... I have read about it on Discogs as well.....
Strom Carlson 10:53 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
I would never pay no attention to this sort of stuff and would prefer to practice at home and see what tracks sound nice mixed with other tracks, regardless if they are compatible in key or not..in fact, I would find it more of a challenge to do that

Not only do I like a good challenge, but there have been many occasions where, while performing, I've stumbled upon a new mix that works really well because I already had the songs keyed.

Granted, if you key clash, you may not care. Many in your audience probably won't care either. But for those who do hear the key clash, it's as off-putting as if you didn't know how to beatmatch and trainwrecked the mix.

I don't know. I just don't buy arguments in favor of remaining ignorant and lazy. In my view, DJing is an art and a skill. If someone said "Here's a new set of skills you can learn fairly easily which will improve your performance and give you an edge," why wouldn't you want to acquire that skill? I mean, look, you practice at home, so clearly you are, on some level, concerned about making sure that your performance doesn't suck. What gives?
DJ Alkemy 11:00 PM - 6 October, 2009
Yeah, but in my eyes, if a mix sucks then it sucks, regardless...it all boils down to track selection, tempo, skills (as a hip-hop DJ, I like to hear some nice, clean cutting)..I dont think I have ever heard a mix and thought..hey, thats outta key!...Ive listened and noticed when a beat dont match and the mix dont sound smooth though. It must be a genre thing. I just think that sometimes, as anal as we can be as DJ's we can take it too far with things like this, simplicity can be the key..play good tunes, blend it nice, throw in a few choice scratches here and there, throw a curveball in your mix...basically, rock the party...I think 99 percent of people in the crowd would prefer that than if you played a perfect key mix that no one liked.
Strom Carlson 11:05 PM - 6 October, 2009
Well, of course. I'm not arguing that you should abandon all your existing knowledge, skill, and intuition in favor of some high and mighty ideal of harmonic mixing. What I am advocating is that you learn this and then use it to make your performance even better than it already is.

Proper harmonic mixing sounds smoother and more seamless than a similar mix in a clashing key. Your audience, for the most part, KNOWS this, even if they can't articulate why one mix sounds better than the other.
DJ Alkemy 11:11 PM - 6 October, 2009
fair enough...but what about when I hear the new Marco Polo beat and just KNOW that it will mix in perfectly with a certain record?...thats what I been doing since the start...most of the time I get it right...I am always 'mixing' in my head...thinking of what tracks will go well with certain other tracks...I never, ever give this thing you talk about a passing thought...maybe Im just stuck in my ways but I would be interested on how many Hip-Hop DJ's use this formulas...and Strom, you make some good points and Im not being a douche cause it has spiked my interest, I was wondering if you could give me an example of this harmonic mixing with say, a few clkassic old school Hip-Hop tracks.
DJ Michael Basic 11:11 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
I doubt ANY world renowned DJ has actually studied this stuff.


It's foolish to think all "World Renowned DJ's" don't take the art seriously enough to learn a little music theory. Some do, some don't. To some it comes naturally, others have to learn it.

When you refer to "World Renowned DJ's," however...most of these guys are also producers, and while the dipshits who make out of key mashups for crooklyn clan might be well known in certain circles...the guys who are truly world renowned definitely know some advanced musical theory.
Anu 11:12 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Yeah, but in my eyes, if a mix sucks then it sucks, regardless...it all boils down to track selection, tempo, skills (as a hip-hop DJ, I like to hear some nice, clean cutting)..I dont think I have ever heard a mix and thought..hey, thats outta key!...Ive listened and noticed when a beat dont match and the mix dont sound smooth though. It must be a genre thing. I just think that sometimes, as anal as we can be as DJ's we can take it too far with things like this, simplicity can be the key..play good tunes, blend it nice, throw in a few choice scratches here and there, throw a curveball in your mix...basically, rock the party...I think 99 percent of people in the crowd would prefer that than if you played a perfect key mix that no one liked.



+1000


music theory write up is dope and good to learn ...but improvise and rock the crowd
Strom Carlson 11:14 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
I was wondering if you could give me an example of this harmonic mixing with say, a few clkassic old school Hip-Hop tracks.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a damn thing about old school hip-hop. I suspect that Michael Basic can give a fairly good example, though.
DJ Alkemy 11:16 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Quote:
I doubt ANY world renowned DJ has actually studied this stuff.


It's foolish to think all "World Renowned DJ's" don't take the art seriously enough to learn a little music theory. Some do, some don't. To some it comes naturally, others have to learn it.

When you refer to "World Renowned DJ's," however...most of these guys are also producers, and while the dipshits who make out of key mashups for crooklyn clan might be well known in certain circles...the guys who are truly world renowned definitely know some advanced musical theory.


Yeah, no doubt that music theory plays a big part in production but I cant picture Q-Bert, Craze..hell, Cash Money, Jazzy Jeff etc working out keys in there mixes.
DJ Alkemy 11:19 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Quote:
I was wondering if you could give me an example of this harmonic mixing with say, a few clkassic old school Hip-Hop tracks.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a damn thing about old school hip-hop. I suspect that Michael Basic can give a fairly good example, though.


It must be a genre thing Strom...thinking of it now, I could see house DJ's using stuff like this when there is a long instrumental part of the track but I seen that you used Flo-Rida too so I thought that it works for all genres...I just dont think that a Hip-Hop/scratch DJ would have much use for this..but hey, whatever works for you, and I seen a few other people on here seem to like the idea so it must have some benefit.
DJ Michael Basic 11:23 PM - 6 October, 2009
I don't mix oldschool hiphop enough to have any off the top of my head...but I do a lot of it when mixing the 90s R&B joints. Lemme grab a couple samples out of it and post 'em up...the two I'm thinking of off the top of my head is Boyz II Men Thank you into Lauryn Hill Everything is Everything, and Raphael Saadiq Get Involved into Jill Scott Golden. I'll grab the samples of those two mixes and post em right now.
Strom Carlson 11:30 PM - 6 October, 2009
Hip-hop songs have tonal elements, especially if they sample other songs that are, for lack of a better description, more melodic. While atonal chanting or rapping can't really be out of key with anything, the music that forms the rest of the recording is definitely in a specific key, and will clash if you mix it wrong.
DJ Alkemy 11:34 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
I don't mix oldschool hiphop enough to have any off the top of my head...but I do a lot of it when mixing the 90s R&B joints. Lemme grab a couple samples out of it and post 'em up...the two I'm thinking of off the top of my head is Boyz II Men Thank you into Lauryn Hill Everything is Everything, and Raphael Saadiq Get Involved into Jill Scott Golden. I'll grab the samples of those two mixes and post em right now.


Michael, this is not a diss so dont take it like it is..I listened to your 90's RnB mix earlier and I liked it but I actually thought that the mix from Boyz II Men to Lauryn Hill was not on point..that actually stood out to me earlier.

Ill listen to the R.Saadiq to Jill Scott and get back on here.
DJ Michael Basic 11:36 PM - 6 October, 2009
No offense taken...can't expect everybody to like everything you do...uploading a clip of the saadiq to jill scott right now.
DJ Michael Basic 11:37 PM - 6 October, 2009
www.zshare.net
DJ Alkemy 11:39 PM - 6 October, 2009
Yeah, that Saadiq to Jill Scott mix was sweet...not too sure I would ever in a million years notice that them two tracks had similar key...similar sound yes and the mix went perfect in my eyes because the both songs had a jazzy vibe...I must just be key deaf haha..yep, that mix was tight as hell though.
DJ Alkemy 11:39 PM - 6 October, 2009
Yeah, that Saadiq to Jill Scott mix was sweet...not too sure I would ever in a million years notice that them two tracks had similar key...similar sound yes and the mix went perfect in my eyes because the both songs had a jazzy vibe...I must just be key deaf haha..yep, that mix was tight as hell though.
DJ Alkemy 11:41 PM - 6 October, 2009
what the hell...loool...multiple quadruple post fail!..my laptop just went loco!
Strom Carlson 11:42 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
not too sure I would ever in a million years notice that them two tracks had similar key

That's why you teach yourself :)

Also, holy crap on the multipost :D
DJ Michael Basic 11:42 PM - 6 October, 2009
Yeah...and I think the thing is...I don't do mixes like that so that the crowd will be like, "damn, those two tracks were keyed together perfectly and it really made my night!"

Same thing with wordplay...I do tons of wordplay and I know the crowd doesn't get half of it...I just feel like the more creative I can be, the more I have my own sound, and in a sea of DJs, you have to stand out...especially in LA where everybody's a DJ.
DJ Alkemy 11:45 PM - 6 October, 2009
Quote:
Yeah...and I think the thing is...I don't do mixes like that so that the crowd will be like, "damn, those two tracks were keyed together perfectly and it really made my night!"

Same thing with wordplay...I do tons of wordplay and I know the crowd doesn't get half of it...I just feel like the more creative I can be, the more I have my own sound, and in a sea of DJs, you have to stand out...especially in LA where everybody's a DJ.


yeah, fair points guys...think its a case of horses for courses but it obviously has benefits for some DJ's so in that respect, I take it back.

Also, like you said M.B, I do mixes that I hope people will like but a lot of the time, the snazzy shit that I get amped up about when I do it in my bedroom goes over most peoples heads when I play it live but it aint gonna stop doing it cause it keeps you on your toes.
DJ Michael Basic 12:03 AM - 7 October, 2009
Here's another little example...some house tracks with vocals...going from Just a Little More Love (Bob Sinclar Remix) to Keep Pushin' On (Mousse T Cut Up Mix) to Boom Boom Pow (David Guetta Remix)

www.zshare.net
DJ Michael Basic 12:04 AM - 7 October, 2009
Sounds to me like you're doing this stuff in your head anyway Alkemy...and while you may not call it harmonic mixing...and not have to learn it...that's cause you can hear it...like I said, there are some cats who are completely tone deaf.
DJ Alkemy 12:11 AM - 7 October, 2009
Quote:
Sounds to me like you're doing this stuff in your head anyway Alkemy...and while you may not call it harmonic mixing...and not have to learn it...that's cause you can hear it...like I said, there are some cats who are completely tone deaf.


That reminds me of the part on White Men Cant Jump..."Your listening to Jimi, but your just not heeeeearing Jimi"

Yeah, I think that if you grew up listening to all sorts of music you will get an appreciation for it and subconsciously when you are mixing you just KNOW what will sound good....If you dont do that or you wanna tighten your shit up then maybe this key thing could help you.

"THEN I SAW HER FACE...NOW IM A BELIEVER!!"
ScottyOhh! 2:39 AM - 7 October, 2009
I dont play much Old School but, Im spin Hip Hop and practice tonal matching! It really make the mix a thousand times better!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:08 AM - 7 October, 2009
Quote:


Your business practices, at face value, still seem somewhat dubious to me.


Well, ALRIGHTY then...
dj_soo 9:12 AM - 7 October, 2009
best example i can give of hearing an out-of-key mix.

Take any melodic rnb tune where you have the instr and acapella.

mix it together at like +6 on your TT

Turn key-lock off on one of the tracks and leave it on the other. There's an example of an out-of-key mix.

I don't think constant harmonic mixing is necessary on every mix you do, but I do think djs should train their ears to at least recognize when a mix is out of key and then not do them.

And to be honest, you'd be surprised how many "DJs" are completely tone deaf...
I've actually taken to re-keying some tracks in ableton so that i can force 2 tunes to mix harmonically even though they normally wouldn't.

Also, experiment with key lock being on and off too - some tunes which don't mix harmonically when both are key-locked can actually end up working out if one is key-locked and the other isn't...

Also, you can have dissonant mixes which sound out of key at first, but eventually resolve into an in-key mix. Lot of examples of dissonance and resolution in jazz and classical music - those are cool but a little harder to come by...
CMOS 3:09 PM - 14 October, 2009
Aiight heres my first attempy at mixing in key. The mix is wack and i fuckup a buncha times but am i at least getting the hang of the harmonic side of things?


player.stickam.com
Strom Carlson 11:04 PM - 14 October, 2009
Quote:
Aiight heres my first attempy at mixing in key. The mix is wack and i fuckup a buncha times but am i at least getting the hang of the harmonic side of things?


player.stickam.com

I listened to the first thirteen minutes of the mix. The harmonic part of your mixing (at least up to that point) was perfect. The programming was really dull and bored me to death, though.
CMOS 11:15 PM - 14 October, 2009
Yeah i was just running through tracks that had matching keys. Ive only spun out like under 10 times so the programming part is hard for me.

This stuff really does make a difference when mixing though, gonna keep at it. I like that 2 semitone trick too, you can feel the energy boost.

I gotta admit tho, i cheated a bit, i started keying tracks manually, i understand how to do it now. Then i was like no way im doin this to all my tracks so i bought mixed in key.
CMOS 11:18 PM - 14 October, 2009
By the way if yall think building overviews is slow. Mixed in key is even slower.

The software works fine and seems stable, but the GUI is mad buggy while processing tracks.
Strom Carlson 12:15 AM - 15 October, 2009
Quote:
By the way if yall think building overviews is slow. Mixed in key is even slower

That's because, as best as I can tell from its description of how it works, it actually uploads a clip of every song (or the entire song) to their server, and then it spits back a key.
ChadP - Mixed In Key 12:30 AM - 15 October, 2009
Quote:
By the way if yall think building overviews is slow. Mixed in key is even slower.

The software works fine and seems stable, but the GUI is mad buggy while processing tracks.


The slowest part of the process is gathering the melodic information that is uploaded - it's still way faster than using a keyboard, finding the key, then entering your keys manually. Most bugs experienced during processing are easily fixed, so feel free to shoot us a line and we'll be happy to help.
sixxx 1:15 AM - 15 October, 2009
This is just a mix I did a while back.... harmonic or not? You tell me.

2illegalaliens.com
Mez 8:22 AM - 15 October, 2009
I have been practicing harmonic mixing in studios and nightclubs for the last two years and here's my two cents:

Firstly, everything in Strom Carlson's write up is of utmost importance. Most people can detect what sounds good, without knowing any music theory: something just sounds 'on' or 'off'. It's the theory that lets us understand why this or that sounds good. Knowing the theory enables us to find other tracks that fit with more efficiency.

Listening to some of the largest DJs in the world, it is obvious that they are using basic music theory to pump up, or depress a dancefloor. It is naive to think a world-class dj would ignore something so crucial as what two notes sound good together. Even if a dj uses the dumbed down wheel of fifths [Camelot] he will still get tremendous results.

@ Mixed in Key: You have an incredible piece of software that got me into this whole harmonic mixing thing. I've been using it for years and djs i've introduced it to loved your product from the get go: it is simple to use, and provides a great bridge for djs to actually get into some theory and apply it to their work. Then, somewhere along the line, you decided to make your software only work when a computer was online in a half baked idea to collect data and stop piracy. This is where you lost me, and a great deal of other djs. The backlash of djs against your company has been great: this is a public relations nightmare. I won't explain why your policy of internet connectivity is not compatible with my workflow, but be rest assured, you've lost one customer until you resolve this *hiccup.*

And for all: Harmonic mixing is not a rule. Think of it as a guide, or a DJ tool. Much like knowing the BPM can help you find tracks that *might* mix together, knowing the KEY can do this too. In the end, you might find that perfect mix without knowing the BPM or KEY, but you'll find it faster with a guide.

Cheers,
Jamez
eric007 6:16 AM - 19 October, 2009
How do you address key changes due to pitch changes? I've read that increasing pitch by 6% = one semitone increase. Do you have to guesstimate on-the-fly what keys you have and then listen to hear if it blends well? Or is key lock recommended as the best way to address this situation?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:48 PM - 19 October, 2009
Let me throw this out there.

I've always considered Key Lock on CDJ's cheating, simply because it allows you to mix 2 songs together that might NOT normally sound In Key if that feature wasn't present.

So basically, are you saying that you might not be able to reproduce the SAME MIX, using the SAME SONGS on vinyl if you pitched them up by say 6%, (on two Regular Turntables and a Mixer), as you would if you tried the SAME MIX using the SAME SONGS on CDJ's with a Key Lock option with the 6% increase as well?
dj_soo 6:40 PM - 19 October, 2009
Quote:
Let me throw this out there.

I've always considered Key Lock on CDJ's cheating, simply because it allows you to mix 2 songs together that might NOT normally sound In Key if that feature wasn't present.

So basically, are you saying that you might not be able to reproduce the SAME MIX, using the SAME SONGS on vinyl if you pitched them up by say 6%, (on two Regular Turntables and a Mixer), as you would if you tried the SAME MIX using the SAME SONGS on CDJ's with a Key Lock option with the 6% increase as well?


key lock is just another tool to help you find more mixes. a few of my mixes sound great but only if one tune is key locked and the other tune is not at +3 or something, other times, both need to be key locked and other times, they both shouldn't be etc. etc.
DJ Michael Basic 7:50 PM - 19 October, 2009
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
sixxx 8:54 PM - 19 October, 2009
Quote:
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing
There's no such fucking thing as cheating in DJing


I think there is. Playing someone else's mixes while you pretend to DJ is definitely cheating.
Dj.Mojo 10:06 PM - 19 October, 2009
Not if it is a dj karoake game.
Strom Carlson 2:10 AM - 26 October, 2009
Quote:
How do you address key changes due to pitch changes? I've read that increasing pitch by 6% = one semitone increase. Do you have to guesstimate on-the-fly what keys you have and then listen to hear if it blends well? Or is key lock recommended as the best way to address this situation?

6% is one semitone, yes.

I like key lock, although I still think songs sound weird when they're pushed more than about 3% faster or 1% slower than their original speed, regardless of whether or not key lock is in use. Plus, the key lock algorithm in Scratch Live kind of sucks, and songs start gurgling if you push them too far off quartz lock anyway.
eric007 7:53 PM - 26 October, 2009
Quote:
Quote:
How do you address key changes due to pitch changes? I've read that increasing pitch by 6% = one semitone increase. Do you have to guesstimate on-the-fly what keys you have and then listen to hear if it blends well? Or is key lock recommended as the best way to address this situation?

6% is one semitone, yes.

I like key lock, although I still think songs sound weird when they're pushed more than about 3% faster or 1% slower than their original speed, regardless of whether or not key lock is in use. Plus, the key lock algorithm in Scratch Live kind of sucks, and songs start gurgling if you push them too far off quartz lock anyway.


I'm still wondering how does a person determine while DJing what keys are suitable after changes are made to pitch? Without using a program, how to you figure this out?

Example. Song A key code is 1A, Song B is 2A. To match bpms, song A's pitch goes up 3%, song b down 3%. Are they now in-key?
ChadP - Mixed In Key 8:08 PM - 26 October, 2009
As 6% is one semitone, 3% is half of a semitone. For this reason anytime we change the pitch more than 3% we say that the key is raised a semitone, as it is now closer to the new key than to the original. In Camelot Notation this translates to adding 7 to the Camelot number. Your song in 1A (A-flat minor) raised 3% would be closer to 8A (A minor), and your 2A (E-flat minor) would be closer to 7A (D minor). We have a blog post on our community dedicated to this topic here: community.mixedinkey.com
Strom Carlson 9:51 PM - 26 October, 2009
Quote:
I'm still wondering how does a person determine while DJing what keys are suitable after changes are made to pitch? Without using a program, how to you figure this out?

Example. Song A key code is 1A, Song B is 2A. To match bpms, song A's pitch goes up 3%, song b down 3%. Are they now in-key?

No no no and no.

First off, the camelot wheel gets in the way of you understanding the relationships between the actual keys. Get away from it and learn to use the proper Circle of Fifths.

Next, you never want to push songs very far off of their original pitch. If you make it 6% faster, it will sound like chipmunks singing, and if you make it even 3% slower, it'll sound morose, depressing, and have no energy at all. Stick with songs that are already in compatible keys.