DJing Discussion

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Does anyone here use SoundCloud.com

DJ TOGTFO 7:56 AM - 8 September, 2009
This is a great tool to host and present your mixes or music. If you have one, post it!

soundcloud.com
TinkFu 4:15 PM - 8 September, 2009
Yezzir!

soundcloud.com
d:raf 4:17 PM - 8 September, 2009
Me three!

soundcloud.com
terrible1fi 4:20 PM - 8 September, 2009
same here
excellent site

www.soundcloud.com
DJ-NEO 6:03 PM - 8 September, 2009
hay thats a cool site
gotchuckz 7:13 PM - 8 September, 2009
plus it's free. ain't no beezo.

soundcloud.com
DJkahar aka Skyscraper 7:14 PM - 8 September, 2009
Never heard of it. Whats it all about?
gotchuckz 7:16 PM - 8 September, 2009
it's just a site where u post up ur mixes. people can download it and leave comments. plus it's free.
MK 1 7:32 PM - 8 September, 2009
Superb site!

soundcloud.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:55 PM - 8 September, 2009
Quote:
This is a great tool to host and present your mixes or music. If you have one, post it!

soundcloud.com


Great Work~!
illmatic 7:59 PM - 8 September, 2009
illmatic 8:00 PM - 8 September, 2009
that african 9:20 PM - 8 September, 2009
soundcloud is a great tool for producers and dj's! i'm glad more people are picking up on it.
www.soundcloud.com
sacrilicious 1:43 AM - 9 September, 2009
soundcloud.com

Three mixes online right now. Also in the group "Serato"
LazyGun 1:53 AM - 9 September, 2009
Mike_P 3:01 AM - 9 September, 2009
SeriousCyrus 1:29 PM - 9 September, 2009
famethrowa 2:39 PM - 9 September, 2009
woo haw:
soundcloud.com/waxfang
famethrowa 2:40 PM - 9 September, 2009
oh geez serato boards:
www.soundcloud.com
emkay 10:08 AM - 16 September, 2009
mrddyn 10:58 AM - 16 September, 2009
www.soundcloud.com

That's me.. check out the mixes and leave some comments if you like it :)
TDB412 2:07 AM - 19 September, 2009
djatrain@hotmail.com 3:03 PM - 28 September, 2009
soundcloud.com

check it out yo, outiee 5000 G!
Rane, Support
Chad S. 3:14 PM - 28 September, 2009
fo shizzle
soundcloud.com

but I've been using virb for ages and haven't bothered to transfer stuff. I've just been putting the new stuff up there.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 3:14 PM - 28 September, 2009
Quote:
Never heard of it. Whats it all about?

It has the best stat tracking I've seen yet. pretty cool site.
sacrilicious 9:05 PM - 9 November, 2009
Laaame.

Quote:
Hi Michael,

with a slight delay to the original plan we're all set and ready
to push our new release with lots of great new features and updates
to SoundCloud tomorrow at 2pm CET. Why the delay? We wanted to
ensure a better site performance and prioritized this over the release.
SoundCloud is now back on the fast lane.

As you know we just turned a year old and we would like to thank
you for being with us since the very beginning. It has been a great
journey so far, it means a lot to us that you've been part of the
development so early and we're thrilled to see that you've been
using the site so much. We're very proud of this release and we would
like to give you a little birthday present:

With this new release we will change the way we count your uploads
by bringing back the original metric of music: minutes. SoundCloud
becomes your tape in the cloud. Erase & rewind, remove & replace,
upload as much as you want, in any quality you like, whenever you
need to. No need to wait for the next upload or month anymore.


Sounds good so far, right? Here's the bad part, as far as my interpretation skills go:

Quote:
So what's the present you're asking?
We've got some extra tape for you! The free account will come with
120 minutes of tape and to thank you fo being part of our little
Cloud since the early days, we're upping your amount of total minutes
from 120 to 180.

Also, we'd like to give you a special discount for the Premium account
of your choice. The code HPPYBDY will give you 30% for a full year or
for 6 months if you subscribe to a monthly plan. The code is available
until November 17th and you'll be able to sign up for it on our new
Premium page tomorrow: soundcloud.com

Keep an eye out for the newsletter that goes out soon with all the
details about the release. We hope you'll like the new stuff we've
been working on and if you have any questions, send me an email to
david@soundcloud.com

Thanks a lot for being with us.

David & team SoundCloud


Looks like this is a bad move for DJs and a good one for artists/remixers/producers. As far as I can tell--please correct me if you read otherwise--they're giving you unlimited "number" of downloads, provided audio doesn't exceed 180m, whereas before you could have put up 5 100m mixes.
SeriousCyrus 9:20 PM - 9 November, 2009
I just got that too, I already have way over 180 mins on my account already, are they going to delete some of the mixes?
sacrilicious 9:41 PM - 9 November, 2009
Launches tomorrow. We'll see!
SeriousCyrus 1:09 PM - 11 November, 2009
Let your views be known on the new changes here, soundcloud are responding to concerns and ideas.

support.soundcloud.com
SeriousCyrus 1:10 PM - 11 November, 2009
Sorry, better link here
support.soundcloud.com
Mike_P 2:35 PM - 11 November, 2009
wow this really sux. anyone have any alternatives in mind?
emkay 5:55 PM - 11 November, 2009
yeah definitely pitch in if your using soundcloud on the link serious sent. the debate is getting heated :-)

re alternatives: nothing as good as soundcloud IMO, but you can checkout mixcloud or consider hosting your own with something like loudblog. Then there is also bandcamp but last time I checked they still had an upload limit of 400 MB on lossless which is only about 40-45 mins of mixing so pretty useless for DJs.
jepe 6:47 PM - 11 November, 2009
hi guys.
i use soundcloud. and also. fairtlizer.

but since i upgraded to light account on soundcloud i almost only use this..

soundcloud.com

fairtilizer.com

cheers
sacrilicious 7:39 PM - 11 November, 2009
Responding to concerns and ideas certainly doesn't mean embracing or working through them. I think it's a pretty clear "give us money for a shitty business model or go fuck yourselves."
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 4:14 AM - 12 November, 2009
It cracks me up that people can complain about FREE SHIT.

I'm just going to break this down from a LEGAL POINT OF VIEW....

Forget everything else, the evolution of the DJ, promotion, etc..etc...just look at the LEGAL POINT OF VIEW.

First off, a SITE HOSTING copyrighted songs (that you DON'T OWN) INCLUDING the ability to DOWNLOAD is a total trainwreck waiting to happen, if someone gets a bug up their azz.

Historically A DJ's job is to do 1 thing.

PROMOTE & PLAY music ON THE RADIO, and IN THE CLUB. That is his JOB, that's what he should get paid for, period point blank.

That's it. No more, no less.

Now, you have DJ's making MixTapes/CD's and SELLING OR GIVING THEM AWAY.

That's illegal from the door. You're redistributing copyrighted music without permission. We've all done it, and will continue to do it, but it's LEGALLY INCORRECT.

The long and short is that you CAN'T REDISTRIBUTE copyrighted music. Period.

There is no such thing as a DJJOHNNYM REMIX, that I can "claim" to be mine. That's NOT my copyrighted material, so I had no business remixing it in the first place, nor was I given permission by the label to do it.

That is REDISTRIBUTION of copyrighted material. That's it.

Some will say, we're Promoting the NEW ARTISTS by selling our MIX CD's. Negative, the label did NOT give you permission to redistribute their music, whether you remixed it or just played it straight.

Record Pools give you records for "Promotional Purposes Only", and technically still own the records, and COULD ask for them back believe it or not. Not that ANY has ever asked for them back, but they TECHNICALLY COULD.

All this, "they won't let me host my MixCD" is totally laughable, since you didn't have permission to create the mix in the 1st place.

From a LEGAL STANDPOINT, the DJ is ONLY allowed to PROMOTE AND PLAY MUSIC on THE RADIO and in THE CLUB. They are NOT (Legally) allowed to create mixes for DISTRIBUTION.

Much less put it out there for DOWNLOAD.

SoundCloud is built for those who CREATE MUSIC, not DJ's that want exposure.
xplycyt 6:14 AM - 12 November, 2009
right...

...on a less serious note! Anyone know how to get a podcast happening between soundcloud and iTunes?
DJ Sniffles 7:07 AM - 12 November, 2009
emkay 9:13 AM - 12 November, 2009
johnnym, you need to distinguish between free and paid-for mixtapes. You are right in that if you charged for your mixes, the RIAA or the labels could seek legal action (but even then AFAIK never do).

However, if you do not charge money for it it looks as though the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 provides protection since that would be considered making *non-commercial* copies of your audio files.

Soundcloud downloads (as opossed to Bandcamp) are free, so your mixes should be ok there since its a non-commercial transaction.

Obviously if you upload Britney's latest single you'll get a boot up your a** pretty quickly, but I guess Soundcloud will do what all hosting sites do and take it down within a certain grace period.
SeriousCyrus 9:59 AM - 12 November, 2009
If you read the thread, it's not just about the free accounts, the new paid accounts are extremely limiting for DJs, which is a shame, as SoundCloud is an awsome service.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:19 PM - 12 November, 2009
Quote:
johnnym, you need to distinguish between free and paid-for mixtapes.

However, if you do not charge money for it it looks as though the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 provides protection since that would be considered making *non-commercial* copies of your audio files.


Nice try, but the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 provides protection for backups (ie. cassette recordings back in the day) of songs that YOU PURCHASED, and want to make a backup for PERSONAL USE.

Distributing ANY SONG without consent is illegal.

The same argument was for and against VCR's and TV programs back in the day.

You are allowed to RECORD the shows and view them for PERSONAL reasons, BUT you cannot take that video of a show, and go to say, a BAR with a big screen and play it.

I do, however like your debate.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:23 PM - 12 November, 2009
Quote:
If you read the thread, it's not just about the free accounts, the new paid accounts are extremely limiting for DJs, which is a shame, as SoundCloud is an awsome service.


SoundCloud is an awesome service because it allows DJ's to distribute their mixes on a broad scope, and you can do excellent tracking to give you feedback as to if your skills are up or not, (depending on how many people download your mixes, etc..etc.).

The problem is that, again, it's ultimately illegal to redistribute copyrighted music, (and that's what we're doing if we make a MIXTAPE CD and SELL or GIVE it away.

We all know this is given a blind eye, but if you look overseas, the DJ's have to aquire some license or something to play in certain areas, and venues need certain licenses to have copyrighted music played by a DJ. They are obviously more hardball than we are he in the states, but ultimately, (from a business point of view representing the Artist and Record companies), that's the model that should be followed.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:27 PM - 12 November, 2009
So someone may say, "Well, HOW do I promote myself?"?

That comes back to the original way DJ's used to do it.

Some land jobs just being at the right place at the right time, but let's say they want to HEAR you play.

Technically, you're supposed to get on some decks and give them a LIVE DEMO.

Let's say that ISN'T possible, you could create a MIX for them, and let them LISTEN to it, BUT they have to return it when they're done, or when the promotional period is "UP", and you request it back. And they aren't allowed to make copies of it.
sacrilicious 8:21 PM - 12 November, 2009
I appreciate your perspective, Johnny, but I don't think any of us are going to take a step back and say "oh I shouldn't put my mixes online." We've done it and want to continue to do it in the most effective way.
emkay 8:54 PM - 12 November, 2009
I beg to differ Johnny, you are simply wrong. You mention "backup for PERSONAL USE" - thats nowhere in the Act.

You should read the Act before you say stuff like:
"Distributing ANY SONG without consent is illegal."

Look at Section 1008 of that Act which provides an exception to the infringement:

“No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.”

It specifically mentions distribution. It says nothing about this being limited to backups. It says nothing about personal use. Obviously you have to purchase the tracks first, that was never the issue here.

Like I said before, the benchmark is "noncommercial", meaning dont sell your mixes (without obtaining a license from the labels first).

(It could be argued whether providing DJ mixes for free is also a commercial activity if it leads to you getting paid gigs because of them, but that would require proving cause and effect. There is no clear legislation on this, that I have found)

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but you are acting like you are stating facts and scaring people into thinking they are doing something wrong. Not cool.

Looking forward to your comments.
emkay 9:09 PM - 12 November, 2009
Oh, and if you are really bored, your mixer broken, nothing on TV, no beer or bud in the house you may want to read the Act here:

thomas.loc.gov
DJ TOGTFO 9:50 PM - 12 November, 2009
I think that crunchy peanut butter is waaaaaay better than creamy peanut butter.
DJ TOGTFO 9:56 PM - 12 November, 2009
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:12 AM - 13 November, 2009
Quote:
I appreciate your perspective, Johnny, but I don't think any of us are going to take a step back and say "oh I shouldn't put my mixes online." We've done it and want to continue to do it in the most effective way.


Oh, of course we're not going to go back in time. Nobody is REALLY sweating us do what we do, but I was making a point that people are jumping up and down crying that they (DJ's) can't use SoundCloud the way they USED to.

And I was merely pointing out how far we are from the DJ Model in the 1st place...

And the service was previously FREE....
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:48 AM - 13 November, 2009
Quote:

Looking forward to your comments.


A-ha! A worthy opponent!

Ok,

Let's break it down.

Quote:
I beg to differ Johnny, you are simply wrong. You mention "backup for PERSONAL USE" - thats nowhere in the Act.


You are absolutely correct. I was drawing from memory what I recall about the Sony Corp. of America vs. Universal Studios AKA - The Betamax Case. That was where Sony was sued by Universal for creating a device that could help spurr copyright infringement.

It was later ruled that "the District Court ruled for Sony, on the basis that noncommercial home use recording was considered fair use, that access to free public information is a First Amendment public interest served by this use."

Quote:

You should read the Act before you say stuff like:
"Distributing ANY SONG without consent is illegal."

Look at Section 1008 of that Act which provides an exception to the infringement:

“No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.”

It specifically mentions distribution. It says nothing about this being limited to backups. It says nothing about personal use. Obviously you have to purchase the tracks first, that was never the issue here.



Dude, what that says is that MEANS is that a Device Manufacturer (i.e Sony), would not get sued for creating a Digital CD WRITER, or WRITABLE CD'S, (and "distributing" it) or someone like TDK, won't get sued for creating a TAPE DECK, and CASSETTES, (and "distributing" it) which MIGHT be construed to "Contribute to copyright infringement".

It's like how they shut down Napster, saying it "contributed" to illegal sharing of files. They figured a VCR would contribute to illegal sharing of movies....fast forward to now, CD BURNERS contributing (because of no loss in quality) to copyright infringement.

Your mention of Distribution is in the wrong context

Quote:
Like I said before, the benchmark is "noncommercial", meaning dont sell your mixes (without obtaining a license from the labels first).


They aren't even allowed to GIVE them away.

Quote:
(It could be argued whether providing DJ mixes for free is also a commercial activity if it leads to you getting paid gigs because of them, but that would require proving cause and effect. There is no clear legislation on this, that I have found)


They don't NEED to argue the point, because the DJ should technically never GET to that point of providing mixes for free without consent. The only legislation that is clear is on EVERY COMMERCIAL SONG, it says to Not Redistribute Without Consent. That's the end of the story.

Quote:

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but you are acting like you are stating facts and scaring people into thinking they are doing something wrong. Not cool.


Not trying to scare anybody, but EDUCATE THEM of how far we have come, and what our REAL responsibilites are as DJ's.

If you know the LAW, you can get around it!

Imagine if we REALLY weren't allowed to distribute our mixes like we do today....say the punishment is something harsh like jail or something.

Now ONLY THOSE who REALLY want to be DJ's would put in the work, get the licenses, and give the Art of DJ'ing the respect it has lost.

Think about it.
CMOS 5:00 PM - 13 November, 2009
What if it is my personal creations im putting on soundcloud. Lets say im in a band and want to put my concert recordings up there. I used to be able to put 5 - 100min mixes, now i cant. And that blows. Thats the argument here, not the legality of putting mixes online.
dj shakez 5:02 PM - 13 November, 2009
www.soundcloud.com

2 hour limit :/
al83 6:40 PM - 13 November, 2009
Quote:

If you know the LAW, you can get around it!

Imagine if we REALLY weren't allowed to distribute our mixes like we do today....say the punishment is something harsh like jail or something.

Now ONLY THOSE who REALLY want to be DJ's would put in the work, get the licenses, and give the Art of DJ'ing the respect it has lost.

Think about it.

Totally agree, this would act as excellent quality filter. I miss the days when it was only vinyl, you only had DJs that were passionate about the music and invested hard earned cash into their vinyl collection.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 6:49 PM - 13 November, 2009
Quote:
What if it is my personal creations im putting on soundcloud. Lets say im in a band and want to put my concert recordings up there. I used to be able to put 5 - 100min mixes, now i cant. And that blows. Thats the argument here, not the legality of putting mixes online.


The Legality was brought into the mix because it's the DJ'S that are complaining about not being able to put up (copyrighted) Mixes (some for distribution), not the artists putting up sample tracks for distribution.

The idea of putting your own works as part of a show that is equal to the length of DJ mixes IS a good argument, and would probably be approved on a case by case basis, if they were open minded.

There would be no legal backlash.