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Adding a subwoofer to setup

Swwman 7:02 PM - 24 February, 2019
I recently got a sub to add more bass to my system. It sounds great but I can't seem to get the correct balance between the Sub and the Tops.
Here are the speakers:
2 Alto TLS-115
1 Cerwin Vega P1800SX

I found that if I set the volume on the Tops at the 12 o'clock position and set the volume of the Sub at 12 o'clock, it sounds ok... but it seems like all guess work.

For example, in the beginning of a job when I setup and test some songs I can get the bass and top levels pretty close to a good balance. But later on during the night when I play a bass heavy song, there is way to much bass and I'm forced to reduce bass on my mixer. I don't think that's normal. (Since I got the Sub I have my mixer EQ high mid and low at 12 o'clock - except when I have to reduce the low for bass heavy songs)

Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much!
raedonquan 7:15 PM - 24 February, 2019
use the booth output to your sub amp so you can controll it
dj_soo 8:07 PM - 24 February, 2019
It’s fairly normal. Subs and tops - especially if differing brands will have different volume curves and different limiting points.

Often that means the subs overpower the tops at low volumes and then limit much faster than the high passed tops at higher volumes.

While you can put the subs on a separate output for some brands, with the Altos and cerwin vegas, you kind of need to run the signal through the subs to get the high pass.

Best thing to do is use a line mixer and use the channel eq as the night progresses
Ulrich von Hurtem 8:15 PM - 24 February, 2019
Weird things happen with frequency, wavelength, and a room's effect on them, as temperatures rise, but that's way above my pay grade.

Are you running your Altos, off the high pass through, on your CV? I think you should. Or use an active crossover, to low pass the sub, high pass the tops, and and adjust their volume separately.

Also, you probably should disable "contour" on you Altos.
Swwman 7:44 PM - 17 September, 2019
Thanks to everyone for the help! I think I got the balance between the sub and the tops to be pretty good.

However, I am still having the limiter light flash on bass heavy songs and even when I am just talking on the Mic with no music.

Setup is:
From my DJ Mixer left and right cable into the Sub input 1 and input 2.
Then from the Sub thru 1 and thru 2 into each Alto TLS-115.

Settings on back of Sub:
Polarity Reverse - OFF
Vega Bass Boost - OFF
HPF Thru & LPF Sub - ON
Front Limiter Light - OFF
Main Volume - Never had it over half way (12:00 or less)

I don't know how familiar you are with the P1800sx. I started to look up how the subwoofer was made and how it works on the inside. I found out something that says that input 1 and input 2 for the Sub might be summed together. I don't know if that is how subwoofers work but I think that might be my problem. Are the 2 input signals added together which adds too much volume for the sub at times? If that is the problem, could I just run my system in Mono and only have 1 cable from my mixer into the Sub Input 1, then use a split cable from the Sub Thru 1 to go to each Alto?

Just to clarify: I am using only 1 subwoofer.

Thank You for all of your help and knowledge!
Culprit 8:30 PM - 17 September, 2019
Do not put both outputs from your mixer to both inputs from the subwoofer. You will blow that subwoofer and wont be able to return it. THere should be only 1 input, 1 output on that subwoofer to jump it to another subwoofer. You should always match two tops for two bottoms unless you got a really good active subwoofer which is around the 1200 to 2000 us dollar range.
Culprit 8:33 PM - 17 September, 2019
www.cerwinvega.com

polarity reverse -> off
vega bass boost -> off
hp/lfp -> on
limiter -> on

keep your volume knob at 12 oclock first to start, i honestly think 1 of these subs could handle 75 people max with satisfactory results.
Logisticalstyles 9:23 PM - 17 September, 2019
Quote:
Do not put both outputs from your mixer to both inputs from the subwoofer. You will blow that subwoofer and wont be able to return it. THere should be only 1 input, 1 output on that subwoofer to jump it to another subwoofer. You should always match two tops for two bottoms unless you got a really good active subwoofer which is around the 1200 to 2000 us dollar range.

Ignore all of that and go with what the manual says instead. You can take both outputs from your mixer and feed them into channel 1 and 2 of the sub without blowing your sub.

Quote:
From my DJ Mixer left and right cable into the Sub input 1 and input 2.
Then from the Sub thru 1 and thru 2 into each Alto TLS-115.

What you are doing here is correct, just like it shows you in the manual.
The link output sums up both channels in case you want to add an additional sub.

Quote:
However, I am still having the limiter light flash on bass heavy songs and even when I am just talking on the Mic with no music.

For this issue you might have to look at your gain staging technique. Get a good non clipping signal coming from your mixer first and then adjust your speakers accordingly.
Arjun B 9:38 PM - 17 September, 2019
I would go with what Logistical Styles said and check your gain structure.
From what you said, I would guess that the P1800sx has the limiter on the input level instead of the amplifiers output, which would be why it limit's when you're just speaking into it aswell. The JBL VRX subs work similarly from my experience. Its nothing to be worried about.
Culprit 10:37 PM - 17 September, 2019
I stand correct, i think..

www.cerwinvega.com

page 19 reflects the situation i described, page 20 describes the situation you are currently utilizing.
Culprit 10:38 PM - 17 September, 2019
corrected*
dj_soo 11:33 PM - 17 September, 2019
Quote:
www.cerwinvega.com

polarity reverse -> off
vega bass boost -> off
hp/lfp -> on
limiter -> on

keep your volume knob at 12 oclock first to start, i honestly think 1 of these subs could handle 75 people max with satisfactory results.


that sub can handle way more than 75 people. It's about on the level of the EV EKX18SP and maybe just a step below the KW181 (although it goes lower). Not great, but not bad either - firmly a midrange sub. I have a pair of the CVX18S subs which is the update to this and they're pretty solid. A single can handle a 150 person wedding no problem and possibly up to 200 depending on what your standards are.
desmorider 1:18 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:
Do not put both outputs from your mixer to both inputs from the subwoofer. You will blow that subwoofer and wont be able to return it. THere should be only 1 input, 1 output on that subwoofer to jump it to another subwoofer. You should always match two tops for two bottoms unless you got a really good active subwoofer which is around the 1200 to 2000 us dollar range.



Don't listen to this advice.
Culprit 1:47 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:
Quote:
Do not put both outputs from your mixer to both inputs from the subwoofer. You will blow that subwoofer and wont be able to return it. THere should be only 1 input, 1 output on that subwoofer to jump it to another subwoofer. You should always match two tops for two bottoms unless you got a really good active subwoofer which is around the 1200 to 2000 us dollar range.



Don't listen to this advice.


you take any time to look at the responses before responding with that. I wouldnt give anyone bad advice purposely. thats ok i'l take the demonizing on this one if it makes yall feel better.
Culprit 1:48 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:
Quote:
www.cerwinvega.com

polarity reverse -> off
vega bass boost -> off
hp/lfp -> on
limiter -> on

keep your volume knob at 12 oclock first to start, i honestly think 1 of these subs could handle 75 people max with satisfactory results.


that sub can handle way more than 75 people. It's about on the level of the EV EKX18SP and maybe just a step below the KW181 (although it goes lower). Not great, but not bad either - firmly a midrange sub. I have a pair of the CVX18S subs which is the update to this and they're pretty solid. A single can handle a 150 person wedding no problem and possibly up to 200 depending on what your standards are.


a single 18" sub for 150 people? that's kinda pushing it. Maybe my standards are old school.
DJ Reflex 2:05 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:
a single 18" sub for 150 people? that's kinda pushing it. Maybe my standards are old school.


At a wedding... yes. At any other gig, no way. Old school is good though - keep up the bass!
dj_soo 4:39 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:

a single 18" sub for 150 people? that's kinda pushing it. Maybe my standards are old school.


clearly said for a wedding. Real dance party you definitely need more.
Culprit 4:46 AM - 18 September, 2019
Quote:
clearly said for a wedding. Real dance party you definitely need more.


understood