I feel your pain, I do. That's how I ended up with the DJ-808. (was using Traktor before, which was honestly pretty great using the S4's MIDI outs)

Ableton link can get the job done. It isn't pretty or fun, but it can work.

how?

I should have specified DVS.

Here is a link to the basic setup information from Serato:

help.ableton.com

If you had more specific questions, I'd be happy to assist if I can.

You are saying you use it with DVS?

DVS shouldn't have any impact on the functionality since the clock is still defined in Serato. The timecode is just a control surface supplying that tempo information to Serato.

That said, I do use a pair of SC2900's in (hybrid) DVS / relative mode. Still provides clocking to Serato and likewise, Serato can always define the tempo the other way via sync.

ok. lets go through this.

This should be a usable workflow, not flipping between programs, changing settings, tapping all sorts of buttons and etc.

1. Send BPM info from Serato to Ableton to add bpm effects to samples (since you cant add effects to Serato sample). Using sing DVS and not Sync.

2. Have a track playing in Ableton synced to Serato even while playing normally, again DVS not Sync.

Pretty sure that is all on point, but I'll give it a try tonight to make sure. I think the only potential issue is how Serato determines the master clock. (i.e. which of your tracks is producing the clock it communicates over link) In my personal use cases, I've generally set a track on master to 'lock' the clock, but again, let me do some testing and I'll report back.

Ok, tested it out.

Link does work in DVS and you do technically still have manual control, but at least simple sync with 'snap to beatgrid' must be enabled. That by itself wouldn't be terribly problematic, but...

The workflow is super clunky and if someone knows a better way, please speak up. It appears that:


1) When you want to enable link on a deck, you press 'Link'
2) When you do this, it synchronizes the tempo to whatever Ableton was at at that very moment. This can lead to awkward pitch situations if you were, for example, pushing your fader to +8% and you enable link and it was like 10 BPM lower than your tempo. You will be slowed to Ableton's speed, then allowed to use your fader as normal, but only down now since you were already maxed out!

Morale of #2? Plan ahead. Make the transition over to link on a deck with the pitch fader ready to move to accommodate from Ableton's starting point. (you could also manually dial it in on Ableton in advance to avoid this)

3) Ready to mix into another track? Cool, go ahead and beatmatch if it makes you feel better, but the moment you press 'Link' to bring that deck into the fold, it is synced to the current Link tempo.


So basically, it'll slave everything incoming to Ableton's tempo, but you do have manual control over that tempo via DVS or otherwise. If that was a little confusing, I totally understand. I recorded some of the session and will post a video about it tomorrow. (I'll link here)

So in summary: Will this work to allow you to sync to Ableton, push MIDI clock to other devices (via ableton), and run samples / projects in time? Yes. Will it do this while allowing you to be completely freewheeling and sync-free? No, not exactly.

Hope that helps.

cdm.link

Wait for it.

It "works" its not usable.



...as in not working for dvs



which is a ridiculously unusable work flow



in other words doesnt work for dvs.

matching tempos manually is not only about 'feeling good' - there are practical applications
(no need to argue that in this thread - so whatever)



No help at all.

So the result actually is the way it is implemented it does not work (as in its completely useless) for DVS.

You forgot about loading new tracks will also slave to the Ableton BPM. There is no way to transition between tracks unless they are both synced to the Ableton bpm.

trash

Agree.



Oh it 'works', it just sucks. ;)



Yep, pretty much.



Again, it 'works', it just sucks. ;)



Amen to that! I hope anything I explained wasn't construed otherwise. I was merely pointing out that you can adjust tempo pre-link to your heart's content, but it won't matter much because once you press link, you are synced. =/



A simple 'thanks for the effort' would have been appreciated. =P




Oh, I didn't forget - it was a traumatic experience I won't SOON forget! lol..

See here: youtu.be
(as promised)


I don't use Link for DJing but have tinkered with it as I do a lot of synth and drum machine sequencing. I'll often tie in via Link in conjunction with the MIDI out on the DJ-808, so in that case, sync is not only wanted, but rather required. This was a good learning experience.

Just as an aside, the behavior is identical using a controller on internal mode, so this isn't particular to DVS.


Cheers!

ah, ok. I thought you were being... what do they call that? snarky? lol



yeah, actually thanks.

I have gone through this tiring process several time (in fact with a ticket as well so maybe it would register with serato how crap it is)

I really didnt mean for anyone to go through it. Im more making the point that 'NO ONE' is using it unless they pretty exclusively use sync on a controller. And I want to be sure about that, maybe there is someone using it - but I doubt it




Aight thanks. Ive got a volca set up, some other synced machines and etc... just incredibly frustrating this wont work.


But so, do you think it is fixable? I think so. If they made it so Link would stay 'on' when loading tracks and you could select (or for some mixers followed the x-fader) which track sent info through Link making SDJ always the 'master' it would be perfect.

Midi Clock has been requested for eons.... The bridge crumbles..... And Link is one of the coolest things this decade.... they implement it.... and its crap. [sarcasm] yeah! [/sarcasm]

thanks tho,

good video too. That will save me from ever going back and trying out the whole process.

Agree all over the place. It is a shame. As I mentioned previously, coming from Traktor where we had a nice midi transport system, master and non-master clock targets, etc, this was all a non issue. You could define a track as master clock without ever touching sync and track in realtime I only jumped ship because I wanted some new hardware and NI was going the way of 'no pitch fader, no platters' which was not the direction I wanted to go.

The DJ-808 seemed like a great compromise - use Serato, but hey, it has a MIDI output!! Turned out to be kind of meh. Instead of tracking with Serato's clock (again, no master definition, so I see WHY they have to use sync, but really that should be the thing to fix!), it required a SEPARATE sync to a deck's clock. In other words, it didn't even actually sync when syncing, it just takes a snapshot at the time, so if you truly want to follow your track pitch with the TR-S drum machine, you have to repeatedly hit sync on it (or nudge in firmware 1.10)


All that to say, MIDI is a hot mess on this side of the fence. =P

Also, totally didn't mind testing it out - always wondered, but never had a reason to really test it. Glad I did as now I know that is likely not an option I'll want to use.

I went as far as purchase a Traktor setup with the midi out last year. But ended up not going that way for some some other technical trade off.

sigh

Serato seems to implement things like this, sometimes poorly, does one tweak fix then ignores it forever. Meanwhile people dont use it much because of some simple problems they never fix.

Ableton Link is one of the most important developments even is software development. Serato should fix this so it is usable by all users.

Just so I can have a timed delay effect on samples I have Ableton open and tap tempo the bpm in. Its 2018 and I am still manually taping in a BPMs - ridiculous

It could require somekind of remote script/maxforlive device since you need it for each deck and sampler with proper toggle to focus. The Bridge had remote scripting and also its possible to code a m4l plugin with Serato timecode control. It could fix the issue with Ableton but not with other Link gear. Implementing tempo changes in Link isn’t implemented that way.
ableton.github.io

They supose all musicians go with Link as Master sync session. Not wondered for breakdowns and so. Maybe an standalone Link unit with tap and fine adjustment (fader, push encoder and phase puss&pull) could be interesting. Something like soundbyte sample loopers started as master in headphones and suitable for tempo changes into Link update main clock.



Phase or what? Engaging seems improved in the new Link v3.

I used the bridge when it was supported, but after looking at link, it appears to be very different

It’s part of the original idea with different approach and losing by the way the Master control from decks...

or serato could just not continually end the Link because that actually the only way to solve this problem.




I'm actually not really understanding your comments.

The pro lemme is each new track loaded in SDJ turns Link off making it no longer the master.

I have always been curious about a roland mx1 running in ableton mode one one laptop then another laptop for the Dj 808 plus serato but the Dj 808 midi out connected to the Roland mx1 midi in basically to send serato midi out info to ableton. Ableton uses the mx1 sound card for sound out. Then from the mx1 analog outputs or masterput send that back to the rca line inputs of the Dj 808.

I wonder if that would work perfectly as a replacement for the bridge. Instead of using link

Any body willing to test that theory and see if it works

One one = on one laptop

It would 'work', but still require that you periodically hit sync or manually dial in the BPM on the TR-S. The DJ-808's MIDI out is driven by the TR-S alone and it only "receives" MIDI clock when you press the TR-S sync. Would definitely be more flexible vs. using Link, but not a silver bullet.

Excuse my inconsistency through them, I was answering at the same time trying to understand the issue you pointed and learning a bit more how Allink v3 is going to be implemented. For a moment I understood you want to mix, later I understood the problem with Master sync control... then I hope play/start/stop will take control over Master sync but no, they don’t implemented like that neither.

In the way they implemented the technology Alink is running as Master in background where only engaged “slaves” could perform changes in the tempo (not sure about phase). Transport only implemented to local machine (if I understood right) endpoint. No control over network transport...

but

as you pointed Serato each time load a song to deck equals to disengauge Link
(to avoid bpm jumps... but it should be in sync if you have synced it in Serato and let the user choose or load the song synced almost...)

...so there is no way to be the master.

That’s why I pointed to external box running “all over time” with Link synced (and somekind of control for bpm, phase or whatever it could be remotely controlled)

and

midi in/out to send/recieve transport messages to/from it where user is in headphones mixing moment. Somekind of tic (sound or visual) from that box will be useful too.
Not the best option but almost a working one...

Something like this
www.tindie.com

Plus this
www.attackmagazine.com

With LINK support.
This is near too.
cdm.link

So ATM the nearest to that could be a iOS app with midi control for that parameters. Idk if midi sync link or link2midi work like that but in the end you will extra hardware (groovebox or this link metronome in headphones) to mix in relation to it and allow you to habe some deck control.

Makes sense now?

yeah. I was just saying that the new Link features don't solve anything, neither will any ios translation device. the issue is squarely serato dissengauging. I suppose Link could desegnate master/slave somehow, but that's fundamentally getting away from its simplicity.

serato should have just realized most it's user probably want SDJ to be the master

Has SDj Master clock separated from deck link engauging?
With traktor this should be possible without hassle...

I forget how exactly, but it works fine with Traktor.

dj'ing is getting complicated

it's not for regular DJing. I could go back to SSL1.3 for that.

I've been following this thread closely as I'm testing out a bunch of these things myself. I've just got a copy of Ableton 10 with the new Link start stop options and will be testing that out shortly although probably not with DVS.

The Roland controllers with MIDI out work quite well at sync by the way, and also include the option of outputting the Serato DJ sampler directly through the Serato effects via the Auxillary channel so in your case Akiem you might not even need to use Ableton with one of these.

I'm also setting up some gear for a test of Traktor's MIDI clock and routing the decks out through tracks in Ableton synced through MIDI and/or Link, using one or two computers and a bunch of external hardware. In order to do this, with Traktor or Serato, one thing I've discovered is that it helps to have a good multi-client audio interface (so you can access the same interface channels in two programs) such as the Rane boxes for Serato. Traktor allows the use of any interface but I've heard that some good ones for this purpose (multi-client) include those made by RME (especially good for Windows set-ups), Motu (especially good for Mac set-ups- I'm using a 828mk3 hybrid), or Native Instruments own interfaces.

Akiem, can I ask you what turned you off about Traktor's implementation of this? I'm new to Traktor but so far it seems to have a pretty open and flexible structure for this kind of thing. It's not as nice a GUI as Serato though. It's surprising how much I miss the Serato waveforms when using it.

Just as advice, it’s seems djplayer pro performs the way @Akiem wants
forum.audiob.us

Isn’t it?

I've seriously considered an 808. But it comes back to, I'm about the turntable, not jog wheels.

I don't remember exactly what it was with Traktor. Probably a work flow issue with my Rane mixer. I got to the point I was willing to buy a Traktor A10 and try it out, but it just wasn't for me, so switching would have been a bad move. I'm not sure what I will be trying next, Record box, DJ Player... not sure. Getting this to work is not primary for me - just been requesting 'midi out' for years and years... shits close if they just would have implomented better (aka with users who don't use sync in mind)

"If you don't like sync, jusy don't use it"

yeah, bull-shee-aht

Hope no other features go down the 'it only works with sync path'. This could have been so much better than The Bridge - but it's trash.

so.. using LINK with Serato to SoundSwitch and Traktor to SoundSwitch, i found the in Traktor it worked very well, but in Serato after i set a tempo using SYNC, SS matched it, but then it seemed like SS was now the master and i couldn't change it from Serato.

so i'd load a new track and when i hit SYNC or SHIOFT+SYNC it would just go to the last track tempo which SS was on UNLESS i turned off LINK first in SS.

again this was not an issue in Traktor with SS.

(i like the LINK better because it will generate lighting loops in SS even if there are no beat grids. i have a huge library and too many times a get a request that hasn't been beat gridded. so no lights for that song. at all.)

So yeah, thanks for all your discussions and work arounds been pretty helpful.

For me, I was getting all excited with getting my new rane box and being able to use link to sync to Ableton (for sample triggering in time with my mix) and ultimately link in with a VJ using Resolume (which can also receive link from Ableton). But super disappointed when I finally worked out I can't send a live bpm output to Ableton when using my timecoded vinyl & DVS.

It just really sucks as all we really want to do is send a rough bpm to sync up with visuals rather than tapping it out. Seems like we're gonna have to wait a while for Serato to 'maybe' update with this (but discussion history goes back to 2016 so doubt it will ever happen) OR fork out for a club standard mixer at £1kish with a bpm counter and midi out (though usually these bpm counters aren't the greatest).

Would be interested if anyone has ever synced Serato with any VJing software with link or any other method.

Dj808 is the oficial answer to that. Alternative workarouns had been discusedover the years but nothing truly plugnplay...

It still doesn't send 'live' BPM, unfortunately. Just a sync 'snapshot' of the current. Easily the most annoying thing about the DJ-808. (I am a pro at spamming the TR-S sync button ;) )

Yeah probably just designed as Master midi clock and Link mess with it.

Can you describe your workflow, maybe someone like @Akiem help us to trynto find a way.
I just talk with theoretical info since I don’t use Serato since ITCH and some things are out of my scope...

Currently, I've resigned myself to running Ableton in the background, assigning a pot on a midi controller to the master bpm on Ableton - seeing what tempo i'm at on SDJ and will just adjust as necessary. My Ableton is then linked to the VJs Resolume over the network. If it's small changes this works, if it's a larger change (i.e. going from a 120bpm to a 105bpm) i'll probably just key it in. Super clunky, but it saves him tapping it out or asking us every time we change the tempo.

It's a ballache, but to be honest the only other way i can think of is to buy a mixer with a bpm counter that can also output as midi, then just send that straight to the VJ. But even then bpm counters aren't very reliable. DJ-808 could work but i'd rather not fork out another grand just for this functionality (won't ever use the drum machine with my dj sets tbh).

I was thinking of maybe getting something else that can interface with Serato (an app or something) but can't find anything.

But an ideal world would be Serato > Ableton > Resolume, hands free!

Definitely. Two workflows depending on what I'm up to:

'Portable / DJ only' setup: Standard spinning on the decks with some elements layered in occasionally using the TR-S and an outboard synth or two connected directly off the MIDI DIN on the back.

1) Have a track playing at a steady BPM from a deck or decks, press the sync on the TR-S
2) Press 'start' on the TR-S followed by a nudge on the track(s) to remove any manual offset
3) Babysit any flutter from the tracks at the platters until mixed out
4) Mixing back to a track is just like a regular DJ mix - your outgoing track is the TR-S and attached chain. Manually match to it and mix away.

For more production focused sets, the TR-S feeds my MX-1 which feeds everything else. In that case, the TR-S is little more than a start button and anything done with the decks follows the same method as step 4 above. (manually match and mix to the TR-S clock)

On the MX-1 side of things, it acts just like any other MIDI setup. The TR-S is nice to have and the 808 is a fantastic controller, but the fact that it only sends and sequesters the TR clock into its own little self managed world limits the 'integration' aspect considerably.

Perhaps to put it in perspective it might help to also mention Traktor's workflow for MIDI transport:

Can be set to send or receive - in receive (MIDI in), it can be set to sync master, allowing _all_ decks to accept the clock in realtime as adjustments are made. I could, for example, steer my track decks from the MX-1 or other offboard gear. Likewise, in MIDI out (send), I can be spinning a set and whatever deck is my master clock will send (again, in realtime) all clock adjustments to offboard gear. This is _awesome_ when playing a mixed set with a live PA artist. I can dump MIDI master clock into their MX-1 or Octatrak and we play seamlessly without beatmatching everything by ear while trying to manage a table full of instruments.


That realtime aspect is what really makes the difference. There are no 'snapshots' in time of clock. Everything is determined by the master as it occurs. This allows for awesome things to occur and for the artists to focus on the performance instead of clock management.

If you've ever played on a MIDI setup with some bad cables or clock drift issues, that's what it is like to play on the DJ-808. It works for short periods just fine, but don't expect to put together a wonderfully layered techno set without putting in some sweat equity and being _REALLY_ on the ball.

Hey guys,

i have read a lot of the posts here (quickly over-flown the thread) and I am surprised a lot of you seem to have problems when using ableton link. Me, personally - I am using Serato DJ Pro, Ableton Live 10 and NI Maschine software for over a year now synced over ableton link without a problem. All seem to work fine (I use Serato for scratching, Live to fire off pre-warped clips and Maschine software to build beats & grooves on the fly and add them to what I play in Serato/Ableton Live) - so can anyone tell me where your problems are? I am not syncing it to a visual software (yet - plan to do so.) but since Soundswitch has implemented Ableton Link there should be no hassle or? Once linked - every member of the link chain is able to change the tempo and all the other members follow the change in tempo.
The only thing which is left needed (in my opinion) are ways to midi-map the enable/disable Link functionality in Live & the Maschine software. I am really missing this.

Greetings, Bornd

Hey Bornd - the original query evolved into a discussion about DVS in Serato + Link without the need for using sync.

You are correct that if you are working with sync, then there are no issues. Without sync, it is not possible to use Ableton Link or send the realtime clock out to other devices (in Serato) at all and I think that's the sticking point for some.

Working with sync, everything works fine with the exception you pointed out. (easy way to engage / disengage sync would be FANTASTIC!) Overall, I would really appreciate also having a 'Master' clock assignment which could be pointed to one track or another like Traktor has. This saves from a lot of odd situations where you disengage sync for a switch and the BPM abruptly shifts, or you find that you are (relative) out of pitch fader to correct.

Idk if sdj still support qc compositions but it was a workaround back in the day with ssl.
Another option could be use serato video or v-module maxforlive library to keep things less complex. Not perfect solution for everyone of course...

This link and possibilities has been pointed over the years (IDK if also in the topic) as chance to code a QC solution. In fact I think after saying it until get tired someone done it back in the day through OSC... but I can’t find it and I’m bit burn about repeating myself, sorry.

mansteri.com

yeah, no. Im not wasting my time with this anymore.

I have a button set up so I tap a BPM to Ableton like its the year 1998.

this is some BS.

Yup it’s a pita for sure when it could have been easy with some coding from them.

same as many other things... eh

They seem more interested in selling expansion packs...

If that's the direction any decent features arrive at serato, I'd pay good money for a Mixtape expansion pack if that gives us features that were previously available, but removed..

i would have payed for a Link expansion pack if it worked (maybe tbey cant sell it)

seems like they could expand Record to spme type of Mixtape... eh

I figure with all the controllers out now with every fader and knob baked into the hardware and accessible via software software it would be a no brainer to bring that same Mixtape functionality that was exclusive to Rane mixers.

The controller market opened up this feature's possibility, Serato has just totally slept on how many people would take advantage of such a feature now that it wouldn't have to be specific to Rane mixers anymore..

They already had the code to do it before.. I can't see what's stopping them other than dedicating resources in all the wrong places. (imo)

Where do you record these fader movements? In Mixtape the receiver was Ableton but ATM Serato has nothing similar to Arrangement view... It could be a next step into Flip Record (patterns) to build like legos or record freely like old Mixtape. Anyways there are some options out there that near to zero users adopted, that's including the ones possible with Serato/Link technologies...

Since I'm not true Serato User ATM (I sold my VCI300 and anything related to DVS some time ago) I can be wrong about how mature is the technology under the carpet but... Someone expects any kind of linear recorder (ttm could be great but fairly probable) DAW-like host from Serato? Or even any kind of implementation like that inside SDJ pro?

It's possible to route audio internally from Serato output to any Host inputs (with Soundflower/Jack/ReWire or whatever)? That was one of the technologies involved in the Bridge/Mixtape which still keeps not addressed... it's possible with some cheats even alongside midi performance recording... but nothing official.

IDK as Akiem pointed, this is to tiring for so little revenue and/or interest...

In the Mixtape feature it recorded fader movements as automation lanes in Ableton.. No need to re-invent the wheel here..

They were able to write .als files before using Rane hardware, so I would assume it wouldn't be hard to adapt the code for other all-in-one controllers. I don't think Serato needs an arrangement view, as it moves away from the primary purpose of djing and I wouldn't want extra bloat added to create an entire new panel and interactions to handle an arrangement. Live is pretty ubiquitous and anyone using the feature likely has a copy or would get a Lite version if not. I wouldn't want Serato to tackle something Live already does well.

I'm not too keen on flip patterns or extra stuff like that.. Flip seems more for users who don't make edits in a DAW easily. I can understand the low adoption with how awkward the implementation is.

Just being able to record a set of material with knob and fader movements to a .als would do it for me since it was exclusive to Rane hardware at the time it was released and almost nobody was entirely on controllers then.

I wouldn't want a DAW like host in Serato.. just old features they already spent time developing when it was exclusive to their own hardware, but using all-in-one controllers to open up the target market for the feature beyond a limited line of products.

In OSX you might be able to re-route audio, and share midi information between software to grab the knob and fader automation data for Live.. In Windows MIDI devices are locked to 1 software as far as I'm aware and can't share so it's limited what you can do in terms of getting knob and fader data.

Maybe there was so little revenue/interest in the past because the feature was locked to Rane units.. You had to drop a good chunk of coin to get a Rane mixer back then, and I see that as a big limitation to possible success.

It's great you have these ideas and yes, midi could be "hijacked here and there..." but put your feet in the ground mate... Serato & Ableton Partnership is gone (and all the remote scripts related to the Bridge which make these bidirectional communication possible). Some bits gone to Link, some to Flip...

If Serato doesn't implements arrangement view almost need an xml recorder (Ableton has xml format over a short period of time but that also gone) and some tool for edit these automation. It resembles the old Traktor Mix recorder that I read 1000 times but it's so old that I can't find the info about it

BUT

if The Bridge was a fail was in part with the lack of "Ableton Scratching" so if you want to "mixtape" your maneuvers anything like TTM recording (more or less the info behind the new Jazzy Jeff pattern scratching) should be a must, even for controllers...

The whole point is Turntables are clearly out of equation for the big djing brands and just keep these to keep the market segment (also Pioneer released turntables for the same reason) so if this kind of development had any "sweet point" to be released it probably was long ago. Also it seems anything related to DVS has some patents blocking its further development as I extracted from talk with ex-Traktor employee on DjFocus FB group. Go and figure the drama...

It's a must but it's lock. Flip is probably the path and keep it "Live performance" more than "Studio edit" seems Serato's bet for this workflow. It's a shame since Serato had the Scratch plugin for Protools which could be a solution too...

Said that, NI has all the bits to build something like that with Maschine but probably has zero interest too.

Once again I want to remember there are tools like Scratch Track plugin or Deckadance which had these options available just right now...

Watchwww.youtube.com

3:17 for scratch and crossfader automation recorder...

I'm feeling to old /bro s/

IT's crappy maybe but working ATM.

Serato partnership with rane and ableton gave us the bridge

Inmusic brand owns akai which means they have some sort of partnership with ableton because they make controllers for ableton.
In music also now owns rane which means some how they might own part of the bridge copy rights from rane.
Serato has a partnership with inmusic

So basically since inmusic brand has some sort of partnership to make hardware or controllers from both companies serato and ableton
I don’t see what’s holding up serato from pitching the idea of bringing back the bridge 2.0

Let inmusic brand make a bridge controller/ mpc with a sound card for ableton. Basically when connected the serato samplers/ decks are rewired into ableton

I dont know how much Link is being used outside of Serato (works good and is one of the best things since midi imo) But I doubt hardly any Serato users are using it because of how its implemented.

Its all "syncs" fault, and all my bitchings about "sync" over the years have been validated with this bs.

It also sucks that we could have all performance telemetry recorded and editable.... but... sigh... eh

@Akiem hit the point...

@djcrap Akai did the first Push controller then Ableton gone Push2 and let Akai doing controllers for FLstudio... go figure.

When I said “the bridge is gone” I said it in Python remote scripts terms. ATM Ms. Pinky (near to dead if not death directly) has more “bridge” through Maxforlive than Serato so Bridge is buried as wasted effort and discontinnued like SSL. Probably will never resurrect in any similar form but maybe it does in plugin format like Serato Sample one.

It will not be so deep like M4L or Remote scripts but not bad per se. The thing is all of this and even more is possible with M4L and some coders are aware but... there is no market (aside patents) so worthless effort once again.

It’s like portablism, lots of people wondered in the past (and some other rejected it as toyism) but in the end few brand implication and lots of user diy.

Do you want the Bridge/mixtape? Make it happen!
Waiting for Serato, Ableton or whatever doing it for you is wishful thinking. Almost the pieces of the puzzle are all ready waiting for being coded...

Lol.. partnership is *gone* meaning everything previously developed is null and void? You yourself say some bits have gone to Link/Flip.. so all isn't lost, nor would be.

I'm pretty sure you don't need to have a partnership to develop software that integrates with Live.. There's plenty of 3rd party python developers utilizing an API to interface with Live..

I think my feet are good lol..

Man, mixtape was one helluva feature. Fader automation and all that. Was amazing! So underrated.

I wish Serato would just be transparent on this issue. I think that type of open human dialogue between customer and company would really set them apart from the faceless corporations.

Serato has a great product but not much really differentiating between the 3, bridge would put the ahead again

Who knows. Maybe it has to do with the Rane/Serato partnership.