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Best PA speaker on the market?

Videolife 3:45 AM - 10 February, 2018
So what's the best, most reliable, lightest, most powerful and clear-sounding powered speaker on the market? Does such a thing even exist? Or are they all pretty much the same thing once you reach a specific price point?

I feel like this might be a stupid question, but I haven't played out in a very long time and even when I did, I borrowed equipment, so I didn't (and don't currently) really know much about much. I've read a ton of reviews about the QSC line. Is this brand above many others in terms of overall quality? If so, is there a favorite among mobile DJs out there? K10? K12? Any other brands or specific speaker you guys would pick that you deem as the be-all, end-all of PA speakers out there today? Doesn't have to be new. It could be an older model that's still used and is relevant in the DJ circuits today.

If you all would please share your thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.
Videolife 3:47 AM - 10 February, 2018
Family member of mine mentioned that the Mackie SRM 450 (the way older Made in Italy version) was and is (according to him, band members, other DJs, etc) the best speaker they've ever heard. He says it hits super hard, that it's super clear, etc. It's been discontinued, but have you guys ever compared them (i.e. the Made in Italy pair, not the newer Made in USA versions out there) with any of the QVC models? If so, what did you think?
Al Poulin 4:56 AM - 10 February, 2018
The old SRM450 was one of the first decent active speakers - as it was mostly reliable, got loud and sounded ok as well. Transducers were RCF which have always produced top notch woofers and compression drivers. Today, there are so many quality actives available - all with many features and amazing sound quality out of the box, that your choices are many. What features are important to you and what is your price point ?
dj_soo 5:42 AM - 10 February, 2018
Best and industry favourite are different things.

The best would likely be some kind of higher end brands that would costs thousands per unit more than your average mobile DJ is willing to spend.

Industry favourites are often a combination of performance, reliability, hype, and popularity.

What matters more is individual preference and necessity.

What do you want out of the speaker? How much are you willing to spend? How big a party are you looking to cover?

Sound quality is more or less on par among most of the trusted brands (mainly QSC, EV, JBL, RCF, Yamaha, among others) with each brand having slightly different sound signatures which becomes more personal preference. Some brands tend to have distint advantages and disadvantages over the competition, but said advantages aren't always relevant to everyone's usage.
Videolife 4:30 PM - 10 February, 2018
Thanks for the help, guys. To answer both of your questions.

What features do I have to pick from exactly? As someone pretty much new to all of this, my priority list might be completely out of whack. I mean I, personally, would want something that can handle a wedding, for instance, that may have upwards of 1,000 people (or more), but for the most part, isn't the dance floor my main focus? If so, what are we looking at exactly? 100 people, generally speaking? 200? Usually it'll be much less than either of those numbers - between 25 and 50, right?

If that is the case, first priority, to me, is sound. To have the ability to use the speakers for 1,000+ people events. A speaker that hits and hits hard across the board in terms of kick and bass. A speaker that's crisp in overall sound (highs, etc) and a speaker that comes from a very reliable company and thus makes the speaker reliable.

Budget? I'll give you guys both my budget and my family members budget and if you guys wouldn't mind recommending speakers for both, I'd appreciate it.

My budget: $2,000 for both. Can possibly be talked into spending more and transitioning over from industry standard to "best", assuming "best" is truly "better" than industry standard.

Family's budget: $500-$1000.

My family might buy used, but I think I'd rather stick to buying new, unless you guys believe that buying used has never been an issue with you or anyone else you've known. Reason I bring this up is because, again, I don't know much about speakers, so if anyone has damaged any internal parts of the speaker, switched anything out for cheaper parts or just altered it in an unfavorable way, I simply wouldn't know. So that's mainly why I would rather buy new.

I'm all ears for any help (thoughts, recommendations, whatever) you guys send this way.

Thanks again.
Videolife 4:32 PM - 10 February, 2018
Is there anything I didn't mention that should be of concern/higher priority to me than what I've listed above?
Videolife 4:47 PM - 10 February, 2018
Something else I was wondering...do bigger speakers (meaning going with a 15" instead of 12") equate to better sound (better hit/clarity, etc)? I assume they'll be at least a little bit heavier (and the weight of the speaker is definitely something I forgot to mention, wanting something not so heavy --only-- if it doesn't sacrifice sound in any way), but will I sacrifice anything else besides lightness by going up in size?
dj_soo 8:34 PM - 10 February, 2018
1000 people for $2000 total is completely unrealistic.

Even in a wedding situation, if you want to cover 1000 people, you’re going to want to budget closer to 5 figures.
dj_soo 8:53 PM - 10 February, 2018
Quote:
Something else I was wondering...do bigger speakers (meaning going with a 15" instead of 12") equate to better sound (better hit/clarity, etc)? I assume they'll be at least a little bit heavier (and the weight of the speaker is definitely something I forgot to mention, wanting something not so heavy --only-- if it doesn't sacrifice sound in any way), but will I sacrifice anything else besides lightness by going up in size?


Unless you get to the higher end of prosumer speakers 15” tops just provide better bass on their own at the cost of clarity and muddier midrange. If you’re planning on using subs, 12” will sound better.
577er 9:31 PM - 10 February, 2018
There should be a sticky thread titled something like “read this before asking about speakers and subwoofers” where the issue of “the best” is broken down and the Cost Size Performance triangle is covered in detail.
Videolife 11:57 PM - 10 February, 2018
Quote:
1000 people for $2000 total is completely unrealistic.

Even in a wedding situation, if you want to cover 1000 people, you’re going to want to budget closer to 5 figures.


Quote:
Unless you get to the higher end of prosumer speakers 15” tops just provide better bass on their own at the cost of clarity and muddier midrange. If you’re planning on using subs, 12” will sound better.


Okay, so for two high-end 12" PA speakers and maybe a subwoofer, what brand/model would you personally recommend?
dj_soo 12:48 AM - 11 February, 2018
Give us some realistic expectations and budgets.

$2000 can get you a system that can maybe handle 200 with little room for growth beyond that but it won’t be anywhere near a “high end” system.

$3000 can get you something that can handle that range with some room to grow to larger crowds.

1000 people will require serious investment well beyond your listed budgets and will cost well into the $10k range and more.

Are you even getting asked to do 1000 person gigs?
577er 2:21 AM - 11 February, 2018
To be fair i’ve done sound for presentations with 2000 people in attendance with two K10s and two K8. And since everyone was quiet and listing it worked no problem. But that’s not to say it would work at a wedding with 1000 people.

Two 12”s and a Sub i’d go with two Yamaha DSR112 and the biggest sub you can pick up, I like the Yorkville PSA2S but that’s too heavy for me so I use RCF 705AS2
dj_soo 2:55 AM - 11 February, 2018
Dude only has a $2000 budget. The tops alone will eat it up with no room for subs.
577er 5:55 AM - 11 February, 2018
Ugh, how about two DXR8 and a decent sub.
577er 5:56 AM - 11 February, 2018
Wait I bough this was the “best Pa Spaker on the market” thread I’m confused.
577er 5:57 AM - 11 February, 2018
Thought*
dj_soo 6:36 AM - 11 February, 2018
It’s a “I want the best!!!!” Thread.

And then later turns out they only have a minuscule budget.

I usually just start recommending funktion 1s and Meyer rigs until they admit they only have $1000 to spend.
pdidy 10:43 AM - 11 February, 2018
Quote:
Family member of mine mentioned that the Mackie SRM 450 (the way older Made in Italy version) was and is (according to him, band members, other DJs, etc) the best speaker they've ever heard. He says it hits super hard, that it's super clear, etc.

Back in 2008 maybe there was a little truth to that but in 2018 its obvious to everyone here that your family members are totally clueless.

And yes your budget vs exception is completely out of wack and unrealistic.
pdidy 11:03 AM - 11 February, 2018
My system seen in my profile picture costs about 20K and might be described as the entry level to professional sound systems when compared to the "Best" and according to JBL it is recommended to 500 people.
eugguy 12:06 PM - 11 February, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
1000 people for $2000 total is completely unrealistic.

Even in a wedding situation, if you want to cover 1000 people, you’re going to want to budget closer to 5 figures.


Quote:
Unless you get to the higher end of prosumer speakers 15” tops just provide better bass on their own at the cost of clarity and muddier midrange. If you’re planning on using subs, 12” will sound better.


Okay, so for two high-end 12" PA speakers and maybe a subwoofer, what brand/model would you personally recommend?


Try the Electrovoice EKX lineup. For around $2000 you can pickup 2 12inch tops, and 2 15inch subwoofers. A nice entry level system that can probably give you a great place to start. You may definitely need to open up your budget a lot more to get what you need though.
Videolife 5:17 PM - 11 February, 2018
Thanks to everyone for their response.

Quote:
dj_soo: Give us some realistic expectations and budgets.


5k. If we can go below that, good. If not, that's my limit for what you guys believe are the "best" two 12" powered speakers and a sub within that price range.

Quote:
dj_soo: Are you even getting asked to do 1000 person gigs?


Not now, no, but I have before and I'm assuming, Lord willing, I will be in the future as well. They can range between 200-1,000 people, but generally around 500? I guess my objective was to be able to have the ability to play for that amount of people should the opportunity arise.

That said, and as mentioned above, in my mind it seems as though only the floor needs to be flooded with good sound. Not necessarily the entire area. I mean maybe I'm wrong. If so, correct me. But I know that not only my family member, but many, many Chicago-land mobile DJ's have gotten by using the Mackie's a sub and other speakers that weren't as powerful. I understand that there's a difference between "getting by" and "getting the job done" in a proper manner, but by "getting by", I don't mean that they settled or that it wasn't good sound (though obvious it wasn't perfect), but from what I can recall, I personally found that their equipment seemed enough. Seemed to really hit the dance floor well, was clear, etc. I mean maybe it wasn't as noticeable to the people at the far end of the room, but is that an objective a mobile DJ should have?

Anyway, it's been a long time and I've grown much since then, so I don't really speak with absolute confidence here, but just sharing with you guys my current (and probably either cloudy or flat out wrong view) of what I understood about the mobile DJ world way back when.

Quote:
577er: To be fair i’ve done sound for presentations with 2000 people in attendance with two K10s and two K8. And since everyone was quiet and listing it worked no problem. But that’s not to say it would work at a wedding with 1000 people.


The thing with that is, when there's a 1,000 people at a wedding, not all of them are dancing. Not all of them are screaming and yelling while songs are playing. Between 50-300 of them are and 700 to 950 of them are sitting down, not speaking, speaking somewhat loudly into someone's ear and of course there's other variables as well, but for the most part, I think max, we're looking at a dance floor with 500 people, but usually between 25-300. So I don't know whether to ask for a system that requires the amount of people that are in the wedding, or the amount of people on the floor. Can you or anyone else touch on this?

Quote:
577er: Two 12”s and a Sub i’d go with two Yamaha DSR112 and the biggest sub you can pick up, I like the Yorkville PSA2S but that’s too heavy for me so I use RCF 705AS2


Thanks for the recommendation. I'll definitely check those out.

Quote:
pdidy 1: My system seen in my profile picture costs about 20K and might be described as the entry level to professional sound systems when compared to the "Best" and according to JBL it is recommended to 500 people.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. What I meant was within the realm of Mobile DJing. I'm not looking for the best in the world, but as far as industry standard, what is the "best" within that standard that falls within my budget of 5k?

Quote:
eugguy: You may definitely need to open up your budget a lot more to get what you need though.


Just did. Make it $5,000.
Videolife 5:21 PM - 11 February, 2018
pdidy, that's a pretty sweet looking system, btw. Would you mind sharing what you're using exactly?
eugguy 5:29 PM - 11 February, 2018
Etx tops, 12’s or 15’s. Etx subwoofers 15’s or 18’s. Can get any combo or each under 5k.
Videolife 5:59 PM - 11 February, 2018
ugguy: These?

www.sweetwater.com

dj_soo: You mentioned the following above:

"Unless you get to the higher end prosumer speakers 15" tops just provide better bass on their own at the the cost of clarity and muddier midrange."

What price range exactly falls within your definition of "high end"? Are your referring to 6-figure systems, like pdidy's?
Videolife 6:14 PM - 11 February, 2018
Sorry, meant 5-figure, not 6.
eugguy 7:54 PM - 11 February, 2018
Yeah, those are them. Do a bit of research still. There is a lot out there. The etx line is a bit older than what is out there. But still gets great reviews for mobile work. I think you will ultimately be happy if you need it for mobile type work.
Videolife 8:01 PM - 11 February, 2018
Okay, I will. And thanks a lot for your help.
dj_soo 8:15 PM - 11 February, 2018
Pair of Yamaha DSR12s over a pair of Yorkville ES18Ps would be good for about 500 people - maybe a little more.

Probably a little over your budget But close.

Huge and heavy tho and even using just a single sub would likely be overkill for anything under 200.

Could look at the 15” tops in order to use them standalone for smaller parties.
Videolife 8:20 PM - 11 February, 2018
Would prefer something lighter, yea', but that's not a deal killer for me, so I'll still definitely check them out. Thanks for your help and the recommendations.
pdidy 12:15 AM - 12 February, 2018
Quote:
pdidy, that's a pretty sweet looking system, btw. Would you mind sharing what you're using exactly?

4 x JBL VRX932LAP www.amazon.com
6 x JBL VRX918SP www.amazon.com
www.jblpro.com
Videolife 2:56 AM - 12 February, 2018
^Thanks!
fvckJuly 8:11 AM - 12 February, 2018
maybe have a look at the IMG StageLine L-Array 1000. have listened to it before and it sounds pretty decent, don't really think two of these "kits" with two 18s would be enough for 500+ people tho. if you find good deals, you might be able to fit 2*18s (maybe SRX828SPs?) in your budget. also, think about buying used. *pro* audio gear, if handled correctly, doesn't really lose value that fast. also, why don't you buy a good setup for up to ~350 people and rent some additional equipment for those (not to be rude, but probably rare-) occasions when you play for 500+ people.
deezlee 8:25 AM - 12 February, 2018
Not to disparage your advisors but mackie's are not know as good sounding speakers.
The ones that you mention had a reputation for being really reliable but they likely sound worse then anything suggested in this thread.
dj_soo 10:08 AM - 12 February, 2018
Quote:
why don't you buy a good setup for up to ~350 people and rent some additional equipment for those (not to be rude, but probably rare-) occasions when you play for 500+ people.


This is great advice - one of the things that factors in my decision for new gear - especially subs - is to figure out what the local rental spots stock so I can scale as needed (you shouldn't be mixing and matching subs).
Videolife 11:28 PM - 12 February, 2018
Alright, I don't know how the hell I went from 2k to freaking $7,000 over here, but the one's pdidy mentioned...would two of those powered JBL's tops (VRX932LAP) and one of the powered subs (VRX918SP) he linked to above fit the bill?

Quote:
maybe have a look at the IMG StageLine L-Array 1000. have listened to it before and it sounds pretty decent, don't really think two of these "kits" with two 18s would be enough for 500+ people tho. if you find good deals, you might be able to fit 2*18s (maybe SRX828SPs?) in your budget.


Thanks for the recommendations, but for sure I'd like to get a set up that can handle at the very least 500 people.

Quote:
also, why don't you buy a good setup for up to ~350 people and rent some additional equipment for those (not to be rude, but probably rare-) occasions when you play for 500+ people.


That's a good and valid point and though I'm sure, as you said, they won't be frequent, my objective was to buy the best once and thus be prepared without needing to go to outside sources for help.

Please feel free to break this (perhaps) distorted glass I'm looking through at anytime, but the way I see it is this. What you get with speakers that can handle 1,000 people is a set (or part if it) that can handle 900 people, 800, 700, and so on. I don't know, for me, that brings with it (for many reasons) some level of comfort. Not having to pay extra for rentals (which isn't often, I know), not having to worry about whether or not they don't have what I need in stock, or whether the places are even open when I need them, not to mention driving there and back not only in general, but if the speaker(s) I rented becomes available 45 minutes before a gig, or whatever other issue may (and many times does) come up that can get in the way. All that is something personally, if I had the option, would not want to deal with.
That said, unless I'm missing something, it just seems to me to be personal preference here. Not saying I won't change my mind, but at this moment, if I had to choose, I think I'd rather own than rent.

Quote:
Not to disparage your advisors but mackie's are not know as good sounding speakers.
The ones that you mention had a reputation for being really reliable but they likely sound worse then anything suggested in this thread./quote]

Gotcha! Thanks for your thoughts. Yea', he mentioned today about how they've be really reliable, but it's good to know there's better sounding stuff out there. In a similar price range, I mean.

Quote:
(you shouldn't be mixing and matching subs).


Really? Why?
pdidy 12:36 AM - 13 February, 2018
Quote:
Alright, I don't know how the hell I went from 2k to freaking $7,000 over here, but the one's pdidy mentioned...would two of those powered JBL's tops (VRX932LAP) and one of the powered subs (VRX918SP) he linked to above fit the bill?

Absolutely not.....
Videolife 12:40 AM - 13 February, 2018
Why not?
pdidy 1:29 AM - 13 February, 2018
Quote:
Why not?

Because I'm trying to help you not make a very common but costly mistake. There's so much that you don't know and a lot of questions that you have not asked yet. You are basically randomly choosing expensive speakers without first knowing if they are really right for you.

So when you ask "would two of those powered JBL's tops (VRX932LAP) .....fit the bill" ?
That tell me that you were unaware that the VRX932LAP was designed to be used 2 PER SIDE to achieve proper coverage of the size crowds you mentioned. Therefore if you are not planning to buy 4 vrx tops then they should never be an option.
Videolife 1:44 AM - 13 February, 2018
Oh, I see. Okay, thank you for clarifying and for pointing that out.

For the record, I'm really not choosing anything yet. I'm just jotting down as much information on my end as possible and will make what I hope to be an informed decision at some later point in time. I'm not getting back into the game until maybe nearing the end of the year, so I'm just casually collecting as much as I can about anything related to mobile DJing. Lights, stands, laptops, etc. Thanks again, though, for the heads up.
pdidy 1:56 AM - 13 February, 2018
ok good so then you Have enough time to research and make a more informed decision. But judging from the information you've provided I have a good idea of what you should buy and its pros and cons.
Videolife 2:09 AM - 13 February, 2018
Well, when you get a second, I'm all ears.
Taipanic 4:31 PM - 13 February, 2018
Quote:
Pair of Yamaha DSR12s over a pair of Yorkville ES18Ps would be good for about 500 people - maybe a little more.

Probably a little over your budget But close.

Huge and heavy tho and even using just a single sub would likely be overkill for anything under 200.

Could look at the 15” tops in order to use them standalone for smaller parties.


Would be my recommendation for lower cost system. Even better swap the Yorkies for a pair of these www.jtrspeakers.com
My 5 figure system would require 2-4 additional subs to properly handle 1000 people, depending on SPL required & genres of music being played.
2 JTR Noesis 3 TX www.jtrspeakers.com
2 JTR Orbit Shifter Subs www.jtrspeakers.com
(4 subs for Rock, Jazz, Oldies, etc... 6-8 subs for EDM,Trap, etc..)
BIGG BEAR 11:02 PM - 14 February, 2018
I think get a decent system for up to 300 to 400 people hire the rest and pass the cost on.
depending on your market lots of weddings are 100 to 200 peps.

You don't want to hump around a gigantic system to those smaller gigs you'll soon get fed up.

Dj Soo last time I read you were carrying a good system in a small car.
What are you taking round with you these days this might give op a bit of a bench mark.
dj_soo 1:31 AM - 15 February, 2018
I run dxr tops - 10” and 8” and I’ve been using a variety of subs. I was using yorkville ls720ps which sound good but are a bit low on output, yorkville ps15s which have more oomph to them, but lack in some features, and lately I just took a risk on a cerwin Vega cvx18s for a great deal and I’ve been happy with it enough that I may get a 2nd.

The 15” subs I could fit 3 in my car with the 4 small tops in the trunk and that could cover about 300 people in a wedding situation although that was pushing it a little. The cv sub is probably peaks out at about 200 people - maybe 250 if I really push it - but goes deeper and the sound quality is excellent. I would put the cvx18 on par with something like the ekx18sp but goes a little lower.

I am considering updating my tops to maybe the etx10ps or possibly some RCF 10” tops if I can get a good price as the dxrs struggle a bit in big halls, but for smaller weddings and corporates, I’ve been very happy with them. Ideally, I’d like a set of the RCF hd10s just for the slightly larger high frequency voice coil, but RCF gear is ridiculously expensive in Canada.
Videolife 3:32 PM - 16 February, 2018
Thanks again, guys. Appreciate the help. And BIGG BEAR, yea', for sure, I'll definitely keep the weight thing in mind.
Videolife 6:27 AM - 15 March, 2018
Any of you guys have any real-world experience with the RCF SUB 8004-AS vs the JBL VRX918SP? Pdidy?

I've narrowed it down to three. The above two and possibly the EV ETX-18SP. Which of the three would be a good entry sub for a mobile DJ?

Also, would a single 8004 have a better overall sound than a single 918 or ETX? How about a single RCF vs two of each of the either the ETX or the 918?
577er 2:05 PM - 15 March, 2018
Quote:
Any of you guys have any real-world experience with the RCF SUB 8004-AS vs the JBL VRX918SP? Pdidy?

I've narrowed it down to three. The above two and possibly the EV ETX-18SP. Which of the three would be a good entry sub for a mobile DJ?

Also, would a single 8004 have a better overall sound than a single 918 or ETX? How about a single RCF vs two of each of the either the ETX or the 918?


RCF 112 vs JBL 87 vs EV 129 lbs.

I don’t know about your operation but I can’t pick up much more than 87 lbs at a time at the end of the the night. Add two on a cart with all the other equipment and the logistics start to get ugly. That would rule out the two louder subs for me.

If I didn’t have to pick it up I’d go for the RCF. They just make better equipment in my experience and it looks more professional and durable than the EV.
577er 2:21 PM - 15 March, 2018
Oops got the weight of the ETX wrong it’s 114 lbs. still would prefer the RCF
Taipanic 2:28 PM - 15 March, 2018
Quote:
Any of you guys have any real-world experience with the RCF SUB 8004-AS vs the JBL VRX918SP? Pdidy?

I've narrowed it down to three. The above two and possibly the EV ETX-18SP. Which of the three would be a good entry sub for a mobile DJ?

Also, would a single 8004 have a better overall sound than a single 918 or ETX? How about a single RCF vs two of each of the either the ETX or the 918?


The VRX are good but you will need more of them to get the sound you want. At least 4 to equal 2 of the RCFs or ETXs. I would probably want to run 6-8 of them for most of the gigs I do, which makes them cost prohibitive for me. It's a good looking, good sounding system that is easy to move around & store.
I've heard the ETX and RCF but not together so it's hard to compare. I'd say they are fairly close, with the RCF getting the edge as it goes a little lower. The Yorkville ES18 goes louder but not quite as low. A single Yorkie will suffice for many gigs. If weight is not an issue, the JTR Captivator 218 Pro goes down to 23 hz while being louder than the rest, while costing $600 less than the RCF. Lots of choices...
Videolife 3:20 PM - 15 March, 2018
Quote:
RCF 112 vs JBL 87 vs EV 129 lbs.

I don’t know about your operation but I can’t pick up much more than 87 lbs at a time at the end of the the night. Add two on a cart with all the other equipment and the logistics start to get ugly. That would rule out the two louder subs for me.

If I didn’t have to pick it up I’d go for the RCF. They just make better equipment in my experience and it looks more professional and durable than the EV.


Damn, not having done this for ages, unloading a heavier sub after a long night completely slipped my mind. I mean I'm a relatively fit guy, but that's definitely something to consider. Thanks a lot for your help and for bringing that up.

Quote:
The VRX are good but you will need more of them to get the sound you want. At least 4 to equal 2 of the RCFs or ETXs. I would probably want to run 6-8 of them for most of the gigs I do, which makes them cost prohibitive for me.


Really? 8 of them? What kind of gigs do you do and how many people do you usually play for? I've concluded that, for the most part, I'll be playing for groups of about 200-500 people. And probably even less than 200 at times. One of the above subs and two good tops is not enough for such an environment?

Quote:
I've heard the ETX and RCF but not together so it's hard to compare. I'd say they are fairly close, with the RCF getting the edge as it goes a little lower. The Yorkville ES18 goes louder but not quite as low. A single Yorkie will suffice for many gigs. If weight is not an issue, the JTR Captivator 218 Pro goes down to 23 hz while being louder than the rest, while costing $600 less than the RCF. Lots of choices...


Man...I honestly don't want to start looking at any new subs. Just narrowing it down to these 3 was a liberating thing.

Plus, cost is not my main concern (weight is, though - one-man operation here). I'm willing to spend up to 7k on both the sub and two good tops. So I think, unless there's an overwhelming lean across the board that would push me towards a specific model, that I'm just going to pick up the RCF or the JBL to get me started. One of the RCF's or, possibly, two of the JBL's. Thanks, though, for the recommendation.
Taipanic 5:01 PM - 15 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
RCF 112 vs JBL 87 vs EV 129 lbs.

I don’t know about your operation but I can’t pick up much more than 87 lbs at a time at the end of the the night. Add two on a cart with all the other equipment and the logistics start to get ugly. That would rule out the two louder subs for me.

If I didn’t have to pick it up I’d go for the RCF. They just make better equipment in my experience and it looks more professional and durable than the EV.


Damn, not having done this for ages, unloading a heavier sub after a long night completely slipped my mind. I mean I'm a relatively fit guy, but that's definitely something to consider. Thanks a lot for your help and for bringing that up.

Quote:
The VRX are good but you will need more of them to get the sound you want. At least 4 to equal 2 of the RCFs or ETXs. I would probably want to run 6-8 of them for most of the gigs I do, which makes them cost prohibitive for me.


Really? 8 of them? What kind of gigs do you do and how many people do you usually play for? I've concluded that, for the most part, I'll be playing for groups of about 200-500 people. And probably even less than 200 at times. One of the above subs and two good tops is not enough for such an environment?

Quote:
I've heard the ETX and RCF but not together so it's hard to compare. I'd say they are fairly close, with the RCF getting the edge as it goes a little lower. The Yorkville ES18 goes louder but not quite as low. A single Yorkie will suffice for many gigs. If weight is not an issue, the JTR Captivator 218 Pro goes down to 23 hz while being louder than the rest, while costing $600 less than the RCF. Lots of choices...


Man...I honestly don't want to start looking at any new subs. Just narrowing it down to these 3 was a liberating thing.

Plus, cost is not my main concern (weight is, though - one-man operation here). I'm willing to spend up to 7k on both the sub and two good tops. So I think, unless there's an overwhelming lean across the board that would push me towards a specific model, that I'm just going to pick up the RCF or the JBL to get me started. One of the RCF's or, possibly, two of the JBL's. Thanks, though, for the recommendation.


Depends on what kind of gigs you are doing, of course. I do everything from weddings to all night raves and yacht & island parties. Weddings & corporate parties? Two good 18" subs will get the job done, sometimes even just one. 500 people & Dance Music in a club type of environment? Need more bass to have it as it should sound & feel. Outside gigs always require double the sound for the same effect.
Out of the three, my recommendation:
A) EV ETX - you can get two for the price of one RCF, don't see a doubling of sound/quality in the RCF.
B) RCF - Good sound, good quality. Repair & parts turnaround may be an issue depending on where you are located.
C) Vertec - Good sounding box, one of the best for sound quality/weight ratio. Nice looking system if you go all Vertec. Biggest downside is not as much output due to the smaller size & cost for having to buy several boxes. A good set up is 6 tops, 6 subs.

If I was buying a new system to do weddings, parties, small pubs & clubs today:
2 Yamaha DSR112
2 JTR Captivator Pro 212 (powered)
Great sound quality, every box under 75lbs, all in for under $5k.
Videolife 6:09 AM - 17 March, 2018
Gotcha! Thanks again, bud. Good point about the RCF repair - will definitely keep that in mind should I go that route.
pdidy 1:53 PM - 20 March, 2018
Quote:
Any of you guys have any real-world experience with the RCF SUB 8004-AS vs the JBL VRX918SP? Pdidy?

Do you have any videos of the types of events that you do?
Are you primarily a wedding DJ or a private event party DJ?
Videolife 3:13 PM - 20 March, 2018
I don't, sorry. I haven't played out in a very long time and when I did, I only played a few side gigs - i.e., weddings, graduation parties, new years parties at larger banquets, etc.

I spoke to some local JBL retailer and he told me that, for me, the VRX line is overkill. He said that the "throw" is meant more for larger venues (outdoor events, auditoriums, etc) and for close-quarter events (such as weddings), that the JBL SRX 800 line is better suited for me, since it projects a shorter distance. Any truth to this?
pdidy 5:32 PM - 20 March, 2018
Quote:
I spoke to some local JBL retailer and he told me that, for me, the VRX line is overkill. He said that the "throw" is meant more for larger venues (outdoor events, auditoriums, etc) and for close-quarter events (such as weddings), that the JBL SRX 800 line is better suited for me, since it projects a shorter distance. Any truth to this?

Yes but he is ONLY referring to the matching JBL VRX932lap tops seen in my profile not the subs.
Videolife 7:07 PM - 20 March, 2018
Got it. Thanks.

So have you ever heard the RCF SUB 8004-AS sub up close? If so, how would you compare them to your JBL's? I know that either one would be more than enough for me, but if there is such a thing as "better", I'd like to choose the best (within this price range) from the start.
pdidy 9:09 PM - 20 March, 2018
My sub preference order is currently......
JBL VRX918sp < RCF SUB 8004-AS......

I own the jbl's and ive heard the rcf8004 up close and the rcf is superior. The ONLY reason I dont already own rcf8004 is because of the weight and I have 4 stairs leading into my house.

But my research tells me that the new King of mobile subs is the BASSBOSS SSP118.....
www.bassboss.com
www.bassboss.com

Now ive never heard the bassboss SSP118 but I trust the company because they post real measurements and they are more transparent about it than most companies.
Videolife 11:18 PM - 20 March, 2018
Cool. Thanks for the feedback n the RCF vs JBL.

Some guy in that first link said this about the Bassboss you mention:

"Therefore I'd say you'd need 2 8004 to match a ssp118 in output in the 30-50 hz range."

That's a pretty bold claim, no? If that actually is true, then that's one hell of a sub. And all that for the same price as the RCF? Not really sure what to think about that. Does Bassboss have as good a reputation as RCF? Have they been around as long?
Videolife 11:20 PM - 20 March, 2018
Oh...one other thing. Just because they both go down to 30hz, doesn't mean they both hit the same, right? One could have the low end rumble whereas the other could be all kick? Or if the specs are the same, would they both sound the same with negligible/not-so-easily-noticed differences between the two?
pdidy 6:25 AM - 21 March, 2018
Quote:
"Therefore I'd say you'd need 2 8004 to match a ssp118 in output in the 30-50 hz range."

While this is true the perceived overall volume 50hz-90hz will make it appear that 2 8004's are louder to your ears.

Quote:
Oh...one other thing. Just because they both go down to 30hz, doesn't mean they both hit the same, right?

right, without a side-by-side comparison it's an unknown which sub produces the better kick to your ears. But according to the charts the RCF cannot compete with the bassboss in the low rumble frequencies.
Quote:
Does Bassboss have as good a reputation as RCF? Have they been around as long?
While bassboss may not have been around as long and is not as well-known as RCF but they have an excellent reputation for producing high-quality/high-end subs and speakers. Bassboss is like high end designer clothing that you can only find in high-end boutique stores.
pdidy 6:50 AM - 21 March, 2018
i Highly recommend that you join the bassboss forum and speak to David Lee who is the Designer & President. He is knowledgeable beyond my pay grade and still answers questions on the forum personally.
Videolife 5:55 PM - 21 March, 2018
Always very helpful. Thanks, P! Appreciate it. I'll give you guys a break and head over there for a bit. lol
Taipanic 6:32 PM - 21 March, 2018
Quote:
SSP118


Have also heard good things but have yet to actually hear them. Big sound from a smaller box for sure, though still heavy at 125lbs. 130 db output, not sure at what frequency. There are subs that put out quite a bit higher db level but most are bigger boxes. My Orbit Shifters are rated at 139 db, high passed at 30hz but they are a much bigger box. The Yorkville LS801 is 133 continuous but only goes down to about 45-48 htz. Would love to do a side by side comparison with all three. I'm sure the Bassboss ranks up there with the top boxes of it's size.
Johnnynights 11:00 PM - 21 March, 2018
I'm looking into those bassboss ssp118....I'm close to the LA area...I found a dealer at Monterey park that carries some of those so I will head down there as soon as I can to demo...if these have more output than a ls801p I'm sold...also they go very low frequencies..
Videolife 11:49 PM - 21 March, 2018
If you can, please report back with your findings. The ls801p was (and kind of still is) on my list of subs to pick up, so I'd really love to hear your view on any differences you may find between the two.
dj_soo 12:22 AM - 22 March, 2018
even though I've never heard the Bassboss outside of videos, the reputation of the company really shines.

Lots of experience with the LS801P and what you're paying for is volume in a single box for an decently affordable price above all else. The sound isn't great, it doesn't go low, it's not small, nor is it light.

The LS801P tends to have a very narrow frequency range where the output is the loudest so while it's still a horn-loaded sub that throws very far, it won't have that same power across the spectrum of the frequency range and only hits really hard on certain notes.

I'd seriously consider the ES18P if you want to go the Yorkville as it's a much smoother sounding sun and a easier to handle design - although it still weighs a ton.

Another sub to consider would be the JBL SRX828P.
Videolife 2:04 AM - 22 March, 2018
Thanks, soo! The LS801P seems pretty legendary. At current used pricing, I might just pick it up for the hell of it.

Quote:
I'd seriously consider the ES18P if you want to go the Yorkville as it's a much smoother sounding sun and a easier to handle design - although it still weighs a ton.


Would you say they have the same sound/amount of output? Only difference is the smoothness of the ES18P? Wasn't able to find many comments or comparisons having run a quick search, but some guy on a forum did say this:

"From what I have read the ES does NOT have the 80Hz hump that the LS does. You need to EQ that out. Also the LS benefits greatly from a little tweak around 55. I almost guarantee these boxes need to be EQed differently."

As a "beginner", I'm looking to plug-n-play. Anything needing tweaks to make it sound good is honestly not something I really feel like getting into right away.

Quote:
Another sub to consider would be the JBL SRX828P.


That's actually on my list as well and I think my local dealer has them in stock, so might check them out over the weekend. Thanks, anyway, for the recommendation.
dj_soo 2:33 AM - 22 March, 2018
Spec wise, it’s got the same output as the LS801P. I have never tested the es18p in a gig situation, but listening in the store, it sounded much smoother than the 801p
Videolife 2:40 AM - 22 March, 2018
Gotcha, thanks.
dj_soo 4:19 AM - 22 March, 2018
Here’s a good demo of the bass boss gear: youtu.be
Videolife 5:37 AM - 22 March, 2018
Holy moly. I was like, "Man, those 30 subs sound freaking amazing." Then 3:50 hits and the guy's like, "That's just those two 21" subs and two tops. That's all that was playing." Mind. Boggled.

I mean I've not heard many subs, so my opinion holds no real weight here, but my cans can pick up a lot of low end and those things sounded perfect to me. 180 lbs, though. How is it that we're barbecuing on the moon but no one's figured out a way to make a <100 lbs sub hit that hard?

Thanks for the video, though, soo. That was something else.
Videolife 5:42 AM - 22 March, 2018
Oh...that one on the right, I assume, is the VS21:

www.bassboss.com

Any idea which one is on the left? Is it the DJ21S? Checked Google images, but the one's that popped up had a yellow label on the front, whereas the one in the clip didn't.
dj_soo 8:02 AM - 22 March, 2018
If you're looking into boutique hardware, you could also check out PK Sound - specifically the Klarity line.

Their stadium rigs are all the rage in the bass music and dubstep scene so they know their subs. I've played on several of their systems big and small and they sound great. Given a choice tho, I'd still choose a Bassboss rig.

www.pksound.ca
Videolife 3:48 AM - 23 March, 2018
What is/are boutique hardware?
dj_soo 8:33 AM - 23 March, 2018
Smaller, more specialized companies that are often of a higher quality, but also a higher price tag.
Videolife 2:26 PM - 23 March, 2018
Oh, I see. Okay, thanks.
pdidy 4:52 PM - 23 March, 2018
Quote:
What is/are boutique hardware?

These are 3 of the top "boutique" speaker companies. "Smaller, more specialized companies that are offer higher quality".

DANLEY www.danleysoundlabs.com
JTR jtrspeakers.com
BASSBOSS www.bassboss.com
J Hennessy 7:10 PM - 23 March, 2018
TH118 subs and SM80 tops are the most common combination of Danley cabinets for mobile applications. Here's a very short video I took last NYE where we set up in a side room. Not what I would call a quality demo but it might be of interest if you're considering Danley.

www.dropbox.com
Videolife 2:54 AM - 24 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
What is/are boutique hardware?

These are 3 of the top "boutique" speaker companies. "Smaller, more specialized companies that are offer higher quality".

DANLEY www.danleysoundlabs.com
JTR jtrspeakers.com
BASSBOSS www.bassboss.com


Thanks.

Quote:
TH118 subs and SM80 tops are the most common combination of Danley cabinets for mobile applications. Here's a very short video I took last NYE where we set up in a side room. Not what I would call a quality demo but it might be of interest if you're considering Danley.

www.dropbox.com


Have you heard any of the other usual suspects (i.e. JBL, EV, RCF, etc)? If so, how would you say they compare to your Danley's?
Videolife 2:55 AM - 24 March, 2018
By the way, the RCF SUB 8004-AS has an RMS of 1250, whereas the BB SSP118 is 2400 continuous.

Again, no expert here, so on the surface it seems to me that there's either double the output or at least more output with the BB than the RCF. Am I wrong or am I missing something here?

www.bassboss.com

www.rcf.it
Videolife 3:25 AM - 24 March, 2018
Either that BB is on a whole other level of subwoofers or I am actually missing something here, because even the Yorkville LS801P, which has been praised endlessly for its output, "only" has 1500 watts. Whereas, again, 2400 for the BB? Someone please make sense of this for me.
dj_soo 5:50 AM - 24 March, 2018
Yorkville is praised for its output to cost ratio.

It won’t stand up to the higher level gear like danely, jtr, or bassboss, but you pay for that higher end gear.
Videolife 7:29 PM - 24 March, 2018
Ahhh, okay. Got it. Thanks.

With regard to the RCF vs BB, though, how low it goes and all other things to the side, we are actually going to see a significant increase in output in real world situations, right? Considering how it has almost double the output?
dj_soo 9:32 PM - 24 March, 2018
Wattage doesn’t really say much in modern speakers tho. Amplifier efficiency, cabinet design, drivers, quality of parts, etc have as much if not more impact than pure wattage numbers.

I honestly couldn’t tell you whether the bassboss is better, worse, or the same as the 8004 because I’ve never heard either of them nor have I heard them side by side.
Johnnynights 11:24 PM - 24 March, 2018
So today I took a trip down to the location that has bassboss subs..they only had 1 zv28 I believe is called, the double 18..all I gotta say is wow lol...I was blown away on the sound and how low it goes..the only downside is like 200 pounds...

Also a day before I was able to reach David I think he's the president for bassboss and he told me that there new dj18 sub a pair of them is more bigger sound than the zv28 and about the same in low..

Now I'm looking in to that pair of bassboss dj18s lol,and btw these are like 110 pounds easier to move around..

Zv28-4000$$
Dj18-2500$$

Much cheaper to get the double 18.
Johnnynights 11:27 PM - 24 March, 2018
The bassboss subs are pretty pricey but now that I heard them I do believe they are worth it..

I want to pick some up but I think for now I'm going to add another pair of srx818sp to my other 2 srx818 lol..
Johnnynights 11:45 PM - 24 March, 2018
@Videolife I think you can't go wrong with either rcf or bassboss...

I heard the rcf 8004 before and to me it sounded good but not really impressed me..the bassboss however surprised me you just gotta hear one..
Johnnynights 11:49 PM - 24 March, 2018
@dj_soo You gotta hear these bassboss subs...smooth,powerful at almost any frequency...

I want to pick up a pair soon lol.
dj_soo 12:42 AM - 25 March, 2018
A bassboss setup would be my ultimate rig. Really no need for it for the gigs I do and it would likely be even more expensive in Canada due to shipping and duty.
J Hennessy 8:37 PM - 25 March, 2018
Quote:
Have you heard any of the other usual suspects (i.e. JBL, EV, RCF, etc)? If so, how would you say they compare to your Danley's?


I have a small EV ETX rig with 12'' tops and a 15'' sub. I haven't heard an RCF or JBL rig yet so I can't offer much for comparison. Generally speaking they're going to be pretty close in performance when you're looking at a similar price point. From what I've heard JBL's SRX line probably gets the edge because of the compression driver in the tops and the wifi accessible DSP built in which eliminates the need for external processing.

I've been very happy with the ETX rig I have. I get a lot of compliments on the sound when I can find a place where I can crank it up. It's excellent for small bars, house parties. Crowds of about 100 or less. The sub will run out of gas if you try and use it for a bigger room. The sound quality is excellent, imo. Very clean. I will probably spend my next chunk of money on more ETX gear rather than Danley stuff. The ETX setup generally suits the kind of things I'm doing well enough and it would be nice to make that sertup more flexible.
dj scottie b 2:24 PM - 26 March, 2018
just a self proclaimed amateur here , but w all the comparing going on, why not compare these more expensive boxes also w the Yorkville LS2100? and after i get shot down, could u please compare it in the middle of all the offerings you have mentioned so far. thanks in advance
Videolife 8:28 PM - 26 March, 2018
Thanks, soo!

J Hennessy 2: Thanks for your detailed reply and help. Appreciate it.

Quote:
@Videolife I think you can't go wrong with either rcf or bassboss...

I heard the rcf 8004 before and to me it sounded good but not really impressed me..the bassboss however surprised me you just gotta hear one..


Man, I think I'm in love. I'm sold on Bassboss (BB). If that clip soo linked up above has me shook, I'm honestly a little scared to listen to them in real life. lol

But yea', I'm definitely being drawn towards BB . There's a place in my area where I can listen to the RCF. I just hope that I can find someone that carries the BB line as well, but I have a feeling that won't happen and I might just wind up somewhat "blind" buying that SSP118. If I start to build, I'm with soo on this and think that BB is the way to go. Big thanks yet again to pdidy for even mentioning them in the first place.
pdidy 9:37 PM - 26 March, 2018
Just spoke to one of my friends who is a pro sound guy who's opinion I trust and we use the same jbl vrx918sp subs. So he tells me that he went to the Watchwww.youtube.com BASSBOSS exhibit in a demo room at DJ Expo 2017 and that everything they are saying in the vid is TRUE about literally being blown away. He says the bass is on another level compared to what we are used to hearing.
Videolife 9:43 PM - 26 March, 2018
Thanks a lot for sharing that with us, p. I think your words just sealed the deal for me, personally. I’m beyond excited to pick them up.
dj_soo 10:05 PM - 26 March, 2018
I love that BassBoss demos their stuff with proper, electronic, bass music instead of a bunch of classic rock or jazz or something that a lot of other companies use.

I get trying to show the clarity of the tops and all, but if you're trying to flex your subs, you need to play proper low end music.
pdidy 10:17 PM - 26 March, 2018
Quote:
but if you're trying to flex your subs, you need to play proper low end music.

This is true, No point investing in bassboss if the majority of your music does not go very low.
Rebelguy 11:52 PM - 26 March, 2018
I had a friend who went to a store demo that Bassboss was having. He said the speakers were great sounding but he couldn’t justify the cost. He said for the price of a pair of the Bassboss dual 18 subs he could get 6 JBL SRX828s. The Return on investment would be much better going to JBL route with being able to do multiple events and rentals.
Johnnynights 12:50 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
Thanks, soo!

J Hennessy 2: Thanks for your detailed reply and help. Appreciate it.

Quote:
@Videolife I think you can't go wrong with either rcf or bassboss...

I heard the rcf 8004 before and to me it sounded good but not really impressed me..the bassboss however surprised me you just gotta hear one..


Man, I think I'm in love. I'm sold on Bassboss (BB). If that clip soo linked up above has me shook, I'm honestly a little scared to listen to them in real life. lol

But yea', I'm definitely being drawn towards BB . There's a place in my area where I can listen to the RCF. I just hope that I can find someone that carries the BB line as well, but I have a feeling that won't happen and I might just wind up somewhat "blind" buying that SSP118. If I start to build, I'm with soo on this and think that BB is the way to go. Big thanks yet again to pdidy for even mentioning them in the first place.

The bassboss team suggest me to go with the dj18 over the ssp118..is a bit cheaper and they said they used the same components just a different box but is not much of a difference..

I think if you get one you will be very happy with the sound lol...
Johnnynights 12:52 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
just a self proclaimed amateur here , but w all the comparing going on, why not compare these more expensive boxes also w the Yorkville LS2100? and after i get shot down, could u please compare it in the middle of all the offerings you have mentioned so far. thanks in advance

After hearing some bassboss subs outside these are in another league...my respect to Yorkville but the bassboss are something else lol.
Johnnynights 12:56 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
Just spoke to one of my friends who is a pro sound guy who's opinion I trust and we use the same jbl vrx918sp subs. So he tells me that he went to the Watchwww.youtube.com BASSBOSS exhibit in a demo room at DJ Expo 2017 and that everything they are saying in the vid is TRUE about literally being blown away. He says the bass is on another level compared to what we are used to hearing.

That happened to me too was blown away now I want to pick up a pair even though I don't need some lol.
dj_soo 1:07 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
just a self proclaimed amateur here , but w all the comparing going on, why not compare these more expensive boxes also w the Yorkville LS2100? and after i get shot down, could u please compare it in the middle of all the offerings you have mentioned so far. thanks in advance

After hearing some bassboss subs outside these are in another league...my respect to Yorkville but the bassboss are something else lol.


They cost like twice as much so they had better be in another league.
Videolife 1:11 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:

The bassboss team suggest me to go with the dj18 over the ssp118..is a bit cheaper and they said they used the same components just a different box but is not much of a difference..

I think if you get one you will be very happy with the sound lol...


Thanks for the heads up. Will have to look into that. Definitely curious to know if the difference between the two boxes is an aesthetic or an audible thing.
pdidy 2:35 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
I had a friend who went to a store demo that Bassboss was having. He said the speakers were great sounding but he couldn’t justify the cost. He said for the price of a pair of the Bassboss dual 18 subs he could get 6 JBL SRX828s. The Return on investment would be much better going to JBL route with being able to do multiple events and rentals.

For "multiple events and rentals" JBL SRX828 is hard to beat at just $1500ea. But of couse this comes at a price of manpower, truck space, storage and scalability. Theres always a trade-off.
Napali 4:17 AM - 27 March, 2018
I would go with EV Eliminators + subs.
Napali 4:26 AM - 27 March, 2018
IDK, people here seem much more knowledgeable. so I would just go with what they say.
Rebelguy 4:27 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
I had a friend who went to a store demo that Bassboss was having. He said the speakers were great sounding but he couldn’t justify the cost. He said for the price of a pair of the Bassboss dual 18 subs he could get 6 JBL SRX828s. The Return on investment would be much better going to JBL route with being able to do multiple events and rentals.

For "multiple events and rentals" JBL SRX828 is hard to beat at just $1500ea. But of couse this comes at a price of manpower, truck space, storage and scalability. Theres always a trade-off.


Of course. Most of my friends events top out at 1500 people. He usually runs 4-6 828s with great results. If he takes it to the next level then he will probably go Danley or Bassboss.
dj_soo 4:30 AM - 27 March, 2018
I love how OP started with a $2000 budget and is not looking into getting a $10k Bassboss rig :D
dj_soo 4:30 AM - 27 March, 2018
not = now.
Videolife 5:10 AM - 27 March, 2018
I know, right. It's bitter/sweet, though. Especially considering I was being conservative with that number. lol So my bank account isn't happy with you all, but I've learned a lot (in fact, most of what I know about subs/tops came from you all) and now I'm pretty confident that I'll be getting an awesome system. I'm honestly very thankful for that and for everyone's help.
dj_soo 6:02 AM - 27 March, 2018
do you really need such a high end system though?

You can get a perfectly good or even great system at half the cost and be able to handle likely 90% of any events with no complaints.

Your 1000-person party seems pretty ambitious and seems a little much for someone just getting back into the game.

A pair of QSC K12s and a pair of QSC KW181s would be more than enough for most private functions outside of large school dances or big dance events and will cost you like $3500.

Why not just wait until you get your business up to the level where you're regularly getting booked for 1000 person events and go from there. By that time, you should be getting enough revenue where a $10k system makes sense rather than multiplying your original budget by 5 for gear that you very likely won't use to it's fullest potential until a few years down the road when you've built up your rep.
Rebelguy 6:23 AM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
do you really need such a high end system though?

You can get a perfectly good or even great system at half the cost and be able to handle likely 90% of any events with no complaints.

Your 1000-person party seems pretty ambitious and seems a little much for someone just getting back into the game.

A pair of QSC K12s and a pair of QSC KW181s would be more than enough for most private functions outside of large school dances or big dance events and will cost you like $3500.

Why not just wait until you get your business up to the level where you're regularly getting booked for 1000 person events and go from there. By that time, you should be getting enough revenue where a $10k system makes sense rather than multiplying your original budget by 5 for gear that you very likely won't use to it's fullest potential until a few years down the road when you've built up your rep.


Very true.
J Hennessy 3:32 PM - 27 March, 2018
I can definitely relate to the OP. My Danley system is great when I can use it but it's quite a bit of extra work to move around and set up. When you have to deal with stairs having help moving subs is essential. I can't tell you how often people say they'll help you out and then don't for one reason or another.

The majority of the opportunities I get are suited well towards a smaller rig. The easier it is to move your rig around the more you're going to want to do use it. With a top of the line self powered rig by JBL, QSC, RCF, EV, etc, you're going to enjoy some very nice sound quality and pretty much fool proof operation. A 15'' or 18'' sub from one of those manufacturers is still going to give you that feeling when you're using it in a smaller space.

There really is something to be said for having a system that you can set up and tear down all by yourself without having to kill yourself to do it. I can see myself possibly getting rid of my EV system eventually and investing in one or two Captivator 212 subs because they're so easy to move around while still going quite low.
DJ Reflex 4:03 PM - 27 March, 2018
BassBoss called me yesterday to discuss specs and comparison to my QSC subs. Great info and from what I've read and heard from the reps - they are no joke. I'd love to hear a demo.

I'm not in the market to buy new speakers anytime soon, but when I do, I'll seriously look into BassBoss!
Videolife 9:25 PM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
do you really need such a high end system though?


I don't, no. That family member I mentioned above has gotten by for over 20 years using just those Mackie's. In 90% of his gigs, without a sub even. So two QSC 12's and two QSC subs would be more than enough for the majority of the gigs I'll play.

Quote:
You can get a perfectly good or even great system at half the cost and be able to handle likely 90% of any events with no complaints.


For the record, I'm not spending 10k. Have I exceeded my original budget? Yes, for sure, but not by a huge amount, IMO. I don't know if I've misrepresented myself in some way, but this is what I plan to have as my first set:

SSP118 = $3,000

Two JBL SRX812 tops: $1,200 x 2 = $2,400

Total: $5,400

Will I eventually get more Bassboss gear? An additional SSP118 or the VS21 or more? If all goes well, I would imagine so. But for now, that's pretty much it.

Quote:
Your 1000-person party seems pretty ambitious and seems a little much for someone just getting back into the game.


This may be obvious to you, having said what I said above, but from what I've learned so far, this first set still won't be able to handle a 1,000-person party. My objective is simply to start with the best and build from there.

Quote:
A pair of QSC K12s and a pair of QSC KW181s would be more than enough for most private functions outside of large school dances or big dance events and will cost you like $3500.


Are those used prices? If not, brand new, for the four pieces, you're looking at $4,200. A difference of $1,200 between that QSC setup and the one mentioned above.
That said, based on nothing more than reviews that I've heard from family, friends, musicians, online reviews (Youtube, forums, etc), QSC doesn't sound like a brand I want to deal with. They get good reviews, sure, but they seem to get more hate than love from the community. So I just don't want to take a chance of buying a huge setup by them, then finally realizing down the line that what many people were talking about (though subjective it may be) is actually true.

Bassboss, RCF and the like have a great reputation. As pdidy mentioned, even pros are stunned by their sound. These are not paid reviews or reviews coming from laymen who don't know any better. A lot of these people are pros who do this for a living and, to some degree, have probably heard it all and are probably desensitized to most things sound. So for them to not only think they're good subs, but to be blown away by Bassboss, IMO, is a huge endorsement. For that reason is why I feel confident not only going with Bassboss, but also not looking towards any other company. They're just doing it right and the peace of mind that comes with knowing that is worth more to me than what I'll be saving by going with another brand. I'm not saying this is the right decision and it's one that, for one reason or another, I may possibly even regret at some later point in time. But as of this very moment, all things considered, it just makes the most sense to me.
Videolife 9:26 PM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
BassBoss called me yesterday to discuss specs and comparison to my QSC subs.


Curious to know: what did you learn?
Rebelguy 10:29 PM - 27 March, 2018
The JBL SRX812ps will easily overpower the Bassboss single 18.
pdidy 11:25 PM - 27 March, 2018
Quote:
The JBL SRX812ps will easily overpower the Bassboss single 18.

Depends on the type of event and music type ?
Videolife 4:13 AM - 28 March, 2018
Quote:
The JBL SRX812ps will easily overpower the Bassboss single 18.


Honest question: how did you even determine that?
pdidy 9:53 AM - 28 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
The JBL SRX812ps will easily overpower the Bassboss single 18.


Honest question: how did you even determine that?

He's basing it on the fact that in general 1 "good" top requires 2 "good" subs for a balanced sound. While this is not an exact science and is based on the users ear, preference and music type it is generally the case unless you play bass light music like jazz for instance. My particular preference is a ratio of 3 subs to 1 top because I play bass heavy and use high output tops.

So considering the fact that 1 bassboss has the output of the approximately 2 good subs and you intend on pairing it with 2 tops, there is the possibility that the tops will out run the one bassboss. But considering the fact that we do not know your personal music preference, you may be perfectly happy with the current ratio.
pdidy 10:14 AM - 28 March, 2018
Now in case you're worried about you're tops out running the sub........ don't be...... it's a very common issue and easily fixed by simply turning the tops down. Problem solved.

or buy another Bassboss lol.
577er 11:34 AM - 28 March, 2018
Videolife, from my personal experience QSC makes amazing speakers. They are the most reliable i’ve ever worked with and the warranty service is unbeatable! I rented out a KW181 that mysteriously stopped working (probably dropped). QSC replaced the driver at a authorized service center within days. That’s the only QSC out of 14 i’ve owned that’s ever needed service. Because they have a good reputation and are somewhat indestructible people over drive them and get bad results. Don’t confuse this with them not being good quality. They have been a mobile industry standard since the K series came out for a reason.

I prefer many of the offerings from RCF but I don’t have the same expectation of a super long warranty or quick repair if I ever need it so I never let anyone else use them.

You can also rent additional QSC gear for larger events easily rather than investing in it. Not going to happen when you need to rent a second or third or more BassBoss.

This is a roundabout way of saying keep doing research and write up a 5 or 10 year business plan for your investment. Reliability, scaleability and practicality are way more important than sexy when your income depends on it.
DJ Reflex 1:50 AM - 29 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
BassBoss called me yesterday to discuss specs and comparison to my QSC subs.


Curious to know: what did you learn?


Basic stuff: like frequency response curves, dB levels, and the like. Stuff I already knew or could read from the spec sheets. What I was impressed with was the level of research the Bassboss team did on MY system. I left a message about my QSC subs (older HPR181 series) and they looked 'em up and knew more about them than I did! :) They were up front about the reality of my gigs and whether or not I would even need such a system. Not trying to hook me on the phone like a used car salesman.

pdidy - Thanks for the info as well. I've heard the "2 subs to every top" rule as well, but never gave it much thought as to all the ramifications of it.
pdidy 3:25 AM - 29 March, 2018
DJ Reflex have you read this comparison with the qsc kw181......
www.bassboss.com
RIDDIMNBLUES 1:28 PM - 29 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
do you really need such a high end system though?



SSP118 = $3,000

Two JBL SRX812 tops: $1,200 x 2 = $2,400

Total: $5,400

Will I eventually get more Bassboss gear

Why don't you get 2 srx828 to go with the srx812 tops? for the price of 1 ssp118 you can get 2 srx828...there is a chart comparison on the net (I'll try to find it) were Bassboss did a comparison between the srx828 vs ssp118 and the Bassboss themselves even admitted the srx828 held up well against their own ssp118 even beating it at certain frequencies (not many companies would do this)

I myself had 4 srx828 and they sounded awesom
with the srx835 tops or the srx812 tops..I sold them however and got 4 srx818 for more scalability with my srx812...4 srx818's with 2 srx812's is my go to equipment for small to medium size gigs and the sound is awesome
big outdoor gigs I pull out my JTR gear..
Vinny D. 8:00 PM - 29 March, 2018
Looking to upgrade from Yamaha Clubs and JBL JRX. Have had 3-way JBL in the past which made recorded music sound like a live band. Have 2 QSC GX5 and a RMX2450 and DBX Drive Rack. Will be using for inside/outside DJ music but play variety from classical and jazz, vocals, to club music, also do movie nights and want solid low end.

Want great sound first priority, hopefully good value and mobility. Would consider 2-way if sound has clarity of the 3-way speakers. Prefer the 15s for flexibility, but most I heard have muddy mids, would consider Yamaha DSR112/DSR115 if they are that good with mids.

Should I consider any of the following?

To save money I can get SR4735X and SR4718X/SR4719X (usually $500/piece) - $
otherwise powered 3-way - PRX 835 or SR835 with possibly PRX818 or SRX 818/828 - $$/$$$
DSR112 or DXR12 with DSR118 - $$
DSR115 standalone or with sub. - $$

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Vinny D.
Videolife 5:46 AM - 30 March, 2018
Quote:
pdidy: He's basing it on the fact that in general 1 "good" top requires 2 "good" subs for a balanced sound.


Wow, really? I'd never actually heard that before. Now I know!

And I play anything from top 40 to dance, 50's-90's and on, hip hop, merengue, jazz, whatever, so from time to time I'll definitely be playing music that'll require a lot of low end.

Quote:
pdidy: Now in case you're worried about you're tops out running the sub........ don't be...... it's a very common issue and easily fixed by simply turning the tops down. Problem solved.


Got it. Thanks.

Quote:
pdidy: or buy another Bassboss lol.


There's something that precedes buying another BB and that's making up my damn mind and purchasing the first one. Go ahead and tip your hat to RIDDIMNBLUES for extending this journey that I was certain had surely ended.

Quote:
577er: You can also rent additional QSC gear for larger events easily rather than investing in it. Not going to happen when you need to rent a second or third or more BassBoss.


Very good and valid point. Definitely something to consider moving forward.

Quote:
577er: This is a roundabout way of saying keep doing research and write up a 5 or 10 year business plan for your investment. Reliability, scaleability and practicality are way more important than sexy when your income depends on it.


Thanks much for the advice and your help. I appreciate it and will definitely put my thoughts on paper to see what I come up with.

Quote:
DJ Reflex: Basic stuff: like frequency response curves, dB levels, and the like. Stuff I already knew or could read from the spec sheets.


Gotcha...thanks!

Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES: Why don't you get 2 srx828 to go with the srx812 tops? for the price of 1 ssp118 you can get 2 srx828...


From where? Everywhere I look they're $1,900 a piece. That's $900 more for two of them. Do you mean used?

Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES: there is a chart comparison on the net (I'll try to find it) were Bassboss did a comparison between the srx828 vs ssp118 and the Bassboss themselves even admitted the srx828 held up well against their own ssp118 even beating it at certain frequencies (not many companies would do this)


This one, right?

www.bassboss.com

If so, that's pretty impressive. The SRX828 outshines the SSP118 in output across a multitude of frequencies, but I'm not understanding what he means by this:

"Thus, at any level the SSP118 has a "deeper voice" than either of the SRX boxes."

Is the bass deeper than the SRX828 or not? Is it the same? What exactly does "deeper voice" mean?

He goes on to say:

"if you like your bass deeper, the SSP118 will do very nearly everything the SRX828 will do from a box that's half the size."

So, in other words, the SSP118 doesn't actually do everything the SRX828 does, but it is, in fact, 20 pounds lighter, seeing as how it's a single 18" subwoofer. And I can (potentially) get two SRX828's for the price one SSP118? That sounds pretty enticing.

Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES:I myself had 4 srx828 and they sounded awesom
with the srx835 tops or the srx812 tops..I sold them however and got 4 srx818 for more scalability with my srx812...4 srx818's with 2 srx812's is my go to equipment for small to medium size gigs and the sound is awesome
big outdoor gigs I pull out my JTR gear..


Couple questions. First, how obvious a difference was there between the 4 srx828's and the 4 srx812's? Also, what do you guys mean by "scalability"?
kendoit 7:54 AM - 30 March, 2018
I have a bassboss system and the only thing that comes close that i think is a Danley system which costs a lot more and I have never heard it
dj_soo 8:50 AM - 30 March, 2018
Which speakers? Worth the hype?
RIDDIMNBLUES 12:40 PM - 30 March, 2018
Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES: Why don't you get 2 srx828 to go with the srx812 tops? for the price of 1 ssp118 you can get 2 srx828...


From where? Everywhere I look they're $1,900 a piece. That's $900 more for two of them. Do you mean used?

Check Mike Pyle at mike@audiopyle.com for great prices on the srx boxes...when bought my srx828 I paid a little under $3000 for 2 srx828's



Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES: there is a chart comparison on the net (I'll try to find it) were Bassboss did a comparison between the srx828 vs ssp118 and the Bassboss themselves even admitted the srx828 held up well against their own ssp118 even beating it at certain frequencies (not many companies would do this)


This one, right?

www.bassboss.com

If so, that's pretty impressive. The SRX828 outshines the SSP118 in output across a multitude of frequencies, but I'm not understanding what he means by this:

"Thus, at any level the SSP118 has a "deeper voice" than either of the SRX boxes."

Is the bass deeper than the SRX828 or not? Is it the same? What exactly does "deeper voice" mean?

He goes on to say:

"if you like your bass deeper, the SSP118 will do very nearly everything the SRX828 will do from a box that's half the size."

So, in other words, the SSP118 doesn't actually do everything the SRX828 does, but it is, in fact, 20 pounds lighter, seeing as how it's a single 18" subwoofer. And I can (potentially) get two SRX828's for the price one SSP118? That sounds pretty enticing.

Everything stated above is true but to me you get more bang for money with the srx828


Quote:
RIDDIMNBLUES:I myself had 4 srx828 and they sounded awesom
with the srx835 tops or the srx812 tops..I sold them however and got 4 srx818 for more scalability with my srx812...4 srx818's with 2 srx812's is my go to equipment for small to medium size gigs and the sound is awesome
big outdoor gigs I pull out my JTR gear..


Couple questions. First, how obvious a difference was there between the 4 srx828's and the 4 srx812's? Also, what do you guys mean by "scalability"?

I'm assuming you mean 4 srx818's...2 srx818's gives the same output as 1 srx828...when I say the 818 is more scaleable than the srx828 I mean (for example) if I have a smaller gig I can bring 1 srx 818 instead of double the weight and space of the srx828..
RIDDIMNBLUES 12:42 PM - 30 March, 2018
Quote:
I have a bassboss system and the only thing that comes close that i think is a Danley system which costs a lot more and I have never heard it


Danley and JTR...JTR is cheaper than the Danley boxes with similar performance
Videolife 8:26 PM - 30 March, 2018
Quote:
Check Mike Pyle at mike@audiopyle.com for great prices on the srx boxes...when bought my srx828 I paid a little under $3000 for 2 srx828's


Okay, I'll do that. Thanks!

Quote:
I'm assuming you mean 4 srx818's...2 srx818's gives the same output as 1 srx828...when I say the 818 is more scaleable than the srx828 I mean (for example) if I have a smaller gig I can bring 1 srx 818 instead of double the weight and space of the srx828..


Sorry, yea', I meant the SRX818. And I guess my question was more of a, since they're technically twice the power/outage, did it feel/sound like you were getting twice as much sound? Like would you say that it was noticeably different, the amount of bass/output with the 4 SRX828's vs 4 SRX818's? Cause technically with the 4 SRX828, you have 8 SRX818's. So in my mind, there should be an obvious and noticeable difference, but then all these different variables might make their way into the equation and the difference is not as stark as the numbers would have me believe.

tl;dr version of my question: Was there any point in time (after the switch to the SRX818's) where you said, "Man, I miss the sound of those SRX828's"? Or have you not really noticed a difference?
Videolife 8:27 PM - 30 March, 2018
Quote:
I have a bassboss system and the only thing that comes close that i think is a Danley system which costs a lot more and I have never heard it


Have you actually tried or heard any of the JBL's mentioned in this thread? Which brands exactly are you comparing the Bassboss speakers to?
DJ Reflex 10:44 PM - 30 March, 2018
pdidy - thanks!

Also, a buddy and I are building these... They sound great, but are passive and designed for outdoor - longer throw) applications.
4.bp.blogspot.com

Up to 12 so far. We got an outdoor festival coming up in July. Gotta make some noise!
kendoit 12:24 AM - 31 March, 2018
To answer you questions I have 2qsc kw181 4ev etx 18sp and 2 jbl srx828 so yes I have heard them and still have all of them and some Bose speakers to I have the bassboss zv28 and 4 dv12 thank you
Hugabone 1:09 AM - 31 March, 2018
Quote:
To answer you questions I have 2qsc kw181 4ev etx 18sp and 2 jbl srx828 so yes I have heard them and still have all of them and some Bose speakers to I have the bassboss zv28 and 4 dv12 thank you


I'm looking to get a pair of DV12's and a pair of DJ18s, what do you think of the DV12's? I currently own a pair of EV ETX 35p's which are too big and heavy to lug around and a pair of RCF 735's. I currently have one Cerwin Vega CVA121 sub but I'm selling that because it's too heavy. All the reviews praise the DV12's but I have not personally heard them.
577er 4:12 AM - 31 March, 2018
Quote:
pdidy - thanks!

Also, a buddy and I are building these... They sound great, but are passive and designed for outdoor - longer throw) applications.
4.bp.blogspot.com

Up to 12 so far. We got an outdoor festival coming up in July. Gotta make some noise!


Looks like the EAW Avalon DCS2 from the 90s early 00s.
DJ Reflex 5:10 AM - 31 March, 2018
577er - Yeah, probably. My friend picked up a used set of four from a sound company a few years ago. He does mostly live band gigs. We just got into small EDM events within the last couple years. There's a local group that hires us for sound and lights about 5-6 times a year.
kendoit 5:31 AM - 31 March, 2018
Dv12 are loud and clean bassboss just all around top of the line i can not compare them to the other ones I takes to many to reach their spl
Comrade Tulayev 7:32 AM - 31 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Check Mike Pyle at mike@audiopyle.com for great prices on the srx boxes...when bought my srx828 I paid a little under $3000 for 2 srx828's


Okay, I'll do that. Thanks!

Quote:
I'm assuming you mean 4 srx818's...2 srx818's gives the same output as 1 srx828...when I say the 818 is more scaleable than the srx828 I mean (for example) if I have a smaller gig I can bring 1 srx 818 instead of double the weight and space of the srx828..


Sorry, yea', I meant the SRX818. And I guess my question was more of a, since they're technically twice the power/outage, did it feel/sound like you were getting twice as much sound


Twice the power gives you an increase of 3db. You need ten times the power to double the sound. Physics is a bitch.
577er 9:08 PM - 31 March, 2018
Quote:
577er - Yeah, probably. My friend picked up a used set of four from a sound company a few years ago. He does mostly live band gigs. We just got into small EDM events within the last couple years. There's a local group that hires us for sound and lights about 5-6 times a year.


Nice. I was thinking you could probably pick up used ones that need new drivers for cheap cheap on eBay if they are the same exact dimensions. Definitely enjoyed those growing up.
RIDDIMNBLUES 9:42 PM - 31 March, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Check Mike Pyle at mike@audiopyle.com for great prices on the srx boxes...when bought my srx828 I paid a little under $3000 for 2 srx828's


Okay, I'll do that. Thanks!

Quote:
I'm assuming you mean 4 srx818's...2 srx818's gives the same output as 1 srx828...when I say the 818 is more scaleable than the srx828 I mean (for example) if I have a smaller gig I can bring 1 srx 818 instead of double the weight and space of the srx828..


Sorry, yea', I meant the SRX818. And I guess my question was more of a, since they're technically twice the power/outage, did it feel/sound like you were getting twice as much sound? Like would you say that it was noticeably different, the amount of bass/output with the 4 SRX828's vs 4 SRX818's? Cause technically with the 4 SRX828, you have 8 SRX818's. So in my mind, there should be an obvious and noticeable difference, but then all these different variables might make their way into the equation and the difference is not as stark as the numbers would have me believe.

tl;dr version of my question: Was there any point in time (after the switch to the SRX818's) where you said, "Man, I miss the sound of those SRX828's"? Or have you not really noticed a difference?


I used my srx828 and srx835's mainly for big outdoor gigs and although they sounded excellent indoors I wanted a little more for my outdoor carnival gigs.. so my 3 choices to upgrade was Danley,Bassboss and JTR..I decided to go with the JTR Orbit Shifter to replace my 4 srx828 and the jtr 3tx noesis to replace my srx835...so to answer your question I upgraded tremendously going from the 828's to the Orbit Shifters

The 4 srx818's I use for small to medium indoor gigs and able to be more scaleable using the 818's instead of the bigger 828's
Videolife 4:22 AM - 2 April, 2018
Quote:
Twice the power gives you an increase of 3db. You need ten times the power to double the sound. Physics is a bitch.


I knew it couldn't be that easy. "An increase of 3dB doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud." Guess I need to find a way to see what a 3db difference sounds like IRL and whether or not it would justify the extra weight of some of these heavier subs.

Quote:
I used my srx828 and srx835's mainly for big outdoor gigs and although they sounded excellent indoors I wanted a little more for my outdoor carnival gigs.. so my 3 choices to upgrade was Danley,Bassboss and JTR..I decided to go with the JTR Orbit Shifter to replace my 4 srx828 and the jtr 3tx noesis to replace my srx835...so to answer your question I upgraded tremendously going from the 828's to the Orbit Shifters

The 4 srx818's I use for small to medium indoor gigs and able to be more scaleable using the 818's instead of the bigger 828's


Thanks again, Riddim.
Comrade Tulayev 7:57 AM - 2 April, 2018
Put 2 subs together though and they acoustically couple and you get a 6db increase
dj_soo 8:30 AM - 2 April, 2018
thought it was 3db for every boundary you reinforce against.
Comrade Tulayev 8:33 AM - 2 April, 2018
One extra sub = extra 3db, couple it with your existing sub = another 3db
Comrade Tulayev 8:35 AM - 2 April, 2018
Gets expensive! I run 2 Turbosound Mi15 tops and 1 DB Technologies sub 808d. Any more and the missus would kill me!
dj_soo 9:50 AM - 2 April, 2018
ah - yea, but coupling and boundary reinforcement like wall or corner loading only does 3db.
DJ Reflex 9:57 PM - 2 April, 2018
The dB scale is logarithmic (LOG button on your calculator). Not complicated math, but still not as straight forward as adding a second sub to get double the volume. :)
DJ Reflex 10:01 PM - 2 April, 2018
LOG is also used on Richter Scale for earthquakes, and pH scale for acids/bases. Each stepped increase on the scale = 10x the previous number.
Speaker example: The stepped range for dB is 10 - so every 10 dB is ten times louder than the previous volume. 30 dB is ten times louder than 20 dB, 40 dB is 100 times louder than 20 dB... and so on.
577er 11:21 PM - 2 April, 2018
I'm pretty sure 10 dB increase is twice (2x) as loud not 10X as loud.
DJ Reflex 4:19 AM - 12 April, 2018
Maybe this will help...
www.noisehelp.com
577er 6:02 AM - 12 April, 2018
Quote:
Maybe this will help...
www.noisehelp.com


It does" 10dB is 2X "Perceived Loudness"
dj_soo 6:11 AM - 12 April, 2018
back on topic, these just got announced:

usa.yamaha.com
577er 6:54 AM - 12 April, 2018
I'm sure they will be great but listing 2000 watts and the -10dB frequency response are super cheesy for what are going to be capable speakers. The larger voice coils and measured* output are worth bragging about. Those subs however get the gas face.
dj_soo 6:58 AM - 12 April, 2018
it's prosumer gear - they all do that. I do wish they'd list the response tho.
DJ GaFFle 1:12 PM - 12 April, 2018
Quote:
back on topic, these just got announced:

usa.yamaha.com

That DZR315 looks interesting. Looks to be a competitor to the SRX835 but possibly smaller.

Quote:
Those subs however get the gas face.

Why do you say that?
Rebelguy 1:45 PM - 12 April, 2018
No pole mount on the DZR315 though. This may be a problem for some people.
Taipanic 2:17 PM - 12 April, 2018
and the new 12's have side handles, doing away with that stupid top handle. I hate those and now I have 3 pair of speakers with them, lol.
577er 2:47 PM - 12 April, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
back on topic, these just got announced:

usa.yamaha.com

That DZR315 looks interesting. Looks to be a competitor to the SRX835 but possibly smaller.

Quote:
Those subs however get the gas face.

Why do you say that?


Lack of a full grill looks cheap and unprofessional IMO. Not to mention allowing stuff (dust, dirt, spills) and critters easier access. If anything metal gets kicked in there and gets stuck to the magnet that could go badly without you even knowing it happend.
The Times 4:14 PM - 12 April, 2018
Quote:
to hump around a gigantic system to those smaller gigs you'll soon get fed u

I think this, along with the rental are your best options.
I have 2 QSC k12's and a Ksub as my rig right now, and probably to most people here, for a gig with 300 people, my rig would lack serious power. But in practice, ive never had a complaint my rig wasnt loud enough. In fact, oddly, i find that at wedding and parties, people will literally move away from the speakers and dance farther down the floor, to a place where the sound drops off, this really confuses me!

But my point is, if you are doing a wedding, youll usually have gigs for like 200-300 people max. So get a rig that can handle 400 people. That way your 300 people are always well taken care of, and you arent pushing the setup all that hard.

I always ask people how big the space is, and how many people they plan on having because i dont want to carry extra equipment i dont need. the faster i can setup and tear down, the less time i spend at a venue, and better the $$/time-spent ratio is.

Also important is your demographic. Are the people your playing for a crowd that appreciates a lot of sound an needs fantastic bass? or would maybe a smaller system be acceptable to them. You dont want a rep as a DJ that plays music too loud. Usually grannies complaining but still lol
deejayfatcat 8:52 PM - 12 April, 2018
Agree. My 2 main complaints of my new Yamaha rig is dxr handles and weight of the dxs. 75lbs for a 12!

Quote:
and the new 12's have side handles, doing away with that stupid top handle. I hate those and now I have 3 pair of speakers with them, lol.
DJ GaFFle 11:35 PM - 12 April, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
back on topic, these just got announced:

usa.yamaha.com

That DZR315 looks interesting. Looks to be a competitor to the SRX835 but possibly smaller.

Quote:
Those subs however get the gas face.

Why do you say that?


Lack of a full grill looks cheap and unprofessional IMO. Not to mention allowing stuff (dust, dirt, spills) and critters easier access. If anything metal gets kicked in there and gets stuck to the magnet that could go badly without you even knowing it happend.

Sounds like a legit gripe.

No pole mount on that DSR315 is an absolute deal breaker. Yamaha, if you're reading this, I'll pass...
djaction 1:47 PM - 13 April, 2018
DB Technologies ES 1203.. slightly more money than EVOX 12 but includes bags, has dual 12" woofers, get LOUDER, and looks much cleaner/better.
DJ GaFFle 11:10 PM - 13 April, 2018
Quote:
DB Technologies ES 1203.. slightly more money than EVOX 12 but includes bags, has dual 12" woofers, get LOUDER, and looks much cleaner/better.

Yep, I'm not even DJ'ing at the moment but they're on my radar...
The Real Dj Danger 2:11 AM - 9 May, 2018
This is also an AWESOME company .......
www.presonus.com
Kitos 1:58 PM - 11 December, 2018
Hi guys , I have been reading here and this got me intrigued as I aslo want to buy 2 active speakers.
OK my budget is 5k for both.
I sing outdoors to 2000 people max.
I need something with high SPL
With strong lows and around 30hz frequency response.
Active
So far I found the Yamaha dzr315
Its say frequency range is 31hz however in response it will be higher.
Has SPL max of 143

Oh yes ,this modelbis a 3 way , I'm a singer, so its important that when the lows are strong ,ibthought 3 way would provide a clearer sound for the vocals.
Can someone recommend me anythinganything else with a low frequency response and high SPL ?
577er 5:11 PM - 11 December, 2018
Are you playing any music or just singing? Most singers don’t reach below 85hz. Most live sound applications you need to have the vocal mics high passed at 80hz or higher to get decent gain before feedback anyway.

I’d look into the RCF NX32A and NX45A

Either way two speakers for 2000 people outdoors with quality broad spectrum sound is not realistic.
Kitos 6:30 PM - 11 December, 2018
hello and thanks for the reply .i have checked the specs for the 2 you recommended and they still dont beat the dzr315 . its a 2000w, 3 way with spl 143db ,frequency range 31hz.

NX 45-A

1400 W 2-WAY CLASS-D AMPLIFIER
133 DB SPL MAX
frequency range 45hz

and

NX 32-A

1400 W 2-WAY CLASS-D AMPLIFIER
131 DB SPL MAX
50hz FREQUENCY RANGE

anyone can suggest better ?

i dont have a band , i play dancey music and sing to the backing track.

anything better than the specs of the yamaha dzr315 ?
dj_soo 6:36 PM - 11 December, 2018
For your budget and your intended audience size, it’s a complete pipe dream.

There’s a reason large gatherings outdoors - even at lower levels - use 6 to 7 figure line array systems.
577er 7:34 PM - 11 December, 2018
Quote:
hello and thanks for the reply .i have checked the specs for the 2 you recommended and they still dont beat the dzr315 . its a 2000w, 3 way with spl 143db ,frequency range 31hz.

NX 45-A

1400 W 2-WAY CLASS-D AMPLIFIER
133 DB SPL MAX
frequency range 45hz

and

NX 32-A

1400 W 2-WAY CLASS-D AMPLIFIER
131 DB SPL MAX
50hz FREQUENCY RANGE

anyone can suggest better ?

i dont have a band , i play dancey music and sing to the backing track.

anything better than the specs of the yamaha dzr315 ?


The DZR315 is much louder but at a narrower horizontal coverage than the NX speakers at 75 vs 90. The 143dB spl of the DZR is on axis so you're not exactly comparing the same numbers. Outdoors wider dispersion is often an asset.
dj_soo 8:07 PM - 11 December, 2018
Also the 30hz frequency range on a top outdoors is a useless measurement. You might hear 30 hz at 1 meter, but that bass is not going to travel. To get that type of low frequency extension outdoors that will travel more than a couple feet, you need subwoofers - large ones and lots of them.
pdidy 5:17 PM - 12 December, 2018
Quote:
Hi guys , I have been reading here and this got me intrigued as I aslo want to buy 2 active speakers.
OK my budget is 5k for both.
I sing outdoors to 2000 people max.
I need something with high SPL
With strong lows and around 30hz frequency response.
Active
So far I found the Yamaha dzr315
Its say frequency range is 31hz however in response it will be higher.
Has SPL max of 143

Don't take it personal but you need to seek help and advise from someone that actually knows what they're doing. A few things you said are red flags......

What kind of speaker systems have used in the past that provided the results you're looking for 2000 people? Do you have any video or Photo documentation of these events?
Kitos 9:45 PM - 12 December, 2018
My God, all I ask for is an answer to a simple question
That is
Anything that beats the specs of the dzr315 ?
Is it so hard to answer that ?

Can anyone else help please ?
dj_soo 10:02 PM - 12 December, 2018
Because your question isn’t simple.

You’re asking for a speaker that can handle 2000 peoples outdoors with good bass for $5000 and no single top can really do that - outside of maybe the $200,000+ danely Jericho Horn.

It’s like asking people if a ford escort could compete in an Indy race and getting mad when people tell you you need a better car.
Kitos 2:49 AM - 13 December, 2018
Ok. My bad for mentioning the people.

Let us start again .

Hi guys ,
Anyone can find me speakers that beat the specs of the dzr315 ?
Price is not important as long as the specs are better.
577er 5:07 AM - 13 December, 2018
If money is no issue then I’d pick a pair of
K-Array Axle KRX802 those things are freaky in a good way. And don’t think for a second that the DZR is louder just because they say it is in the marketing material using pink noise bla bla bla.
Kitos 5:08 PM - 13 December, 2018
OK. Perfect. I ll have a look.
And again , thanks for being patient.
Tc
Al Poulin 11:28 PM - 13 December, 2018
One thing I can tell you is that specs can sometimes be a little misleading. I am the biggest Yamaha fan, but I'm pretty sure the DZR315 is not going to be producing much output at 30hz once it's cranked up. ANY 15" woofer can only move so much air. The spec is likely measured at lower volume before the sliding (variable) high pass filters begin actively removing the sub 50hz frequencies in order to get more output from the woofer - before running out of excursion capability. It likely won't be all that audible until you reach the upper limits of SPL of course, as Yamaha (Nexo) processing is very well implemented. You simply can't expect deep extended bass at very high levels with a single 15" woofer in a compact box. That's why subs exist. I'm sure the DXR315s are an outstanding single box solution -and they should be given the price point, but processing can only do so much and can't replace subs at high levels in big places quite simply...
dj_soo 12:08 AM - 14 December, 2018
if price isn't an issue, get a pair of one of these:

www.danleysoundlabs.com
pdidy 1:35 AM - 14 December, 2018
Quote:
It’s like asking people if a ford escort could compete in an Indy race and getting mad when people tell you you need a better car.

Clearly, you get the point lol.
Pure Freud 12:31 PM - 30 December, 2018
The best the market has to offer worldwide. These speakers are still German handwork. The acoustic measurements are outstanding!!!

www.me-geithain.de

www.me-geithain.de

www.me-geithain.de

greets ! :D
Hanginon 1:30 PM - 30 December, 2018
To prevent self cancellation, subs should be put next to a boundary, or more than 8' from a boundary. The same Laws of Physics apply to tops. Placing your 15" tops on tripods, 5' to 6' in the air (thus 5' to 6' from the floor, which is a boundary), GUARANTEES you will have a bass suck-out at some frequency, that NO amount of EQ or DSP can fix.

A lot of people in this thread have recommended 12" tops (for better mid-range) with sub(s) - you should listen to them!
dj scottie b 4:25 PM - 30 December, 2018
Could someone draw a basic room layout ? You know the usual where u r gonna b on one end w a floor in front of u .. and they want u centered to the floor . I’ve heard subs are better in corners , and also coupled . So u would have tops on tripod in front of floor and the. 2 subs in one corner ? If a person prefers that “ chest thump mid bass , would that still be the same positioning ? People like me could use a mini class on this for sure .

Quote:
To prevent self cancellation, subs should be put next to a boundary, or more than 8' from a boundary. The same Laws of Physics apply to tops. Placing your 15" tops on tripods, 5' to 6' in the air (thus 5' to 6' from the floor, which is a boundary), GUARANTEES you will have a bass suck-out at some frequency, that NO amount of EQ or DSP can fix.

A lot of people in this thread have recommended 12" tops (for better mid-range) with sub(s) - you should listen to them!
deezlee 6:11 PM - 30 December, 2018
My current residency is at a local bar and the sub is like 15' from the tops (on either side of small dancefloor). It's underpowered and it sounds too separate from the highs so I run one of the tops full frequency (obvious breaking of the "rules". I'm sure there is bass cancellation. I just flip the phase switch on the sub and whichever way sounds best I leave it (normal setting seems best in the space).
It sounds better then having the highs on one side and bass on the other.
Learn the rules then learn the Rasta ways. :)
Hanginon 7:12 PM - 30 December, 2018
Quote:
Learn the rules then learn the Rasta ways. :)

Cool - you know what you're doing using your ears!

There are standing waves throughout the room, so another trick is to make sure the subs are not sitting symmetrically vs all the walls - have them off center. I see a lot of people trying to do a mirror imaged set up with their subs - exactly what you don't want to do.
dj_soo 12:40 AM - 31 December, 2018
Quote:
Could someone draw a basic room layout ? You know the usual where u r gonna b on one end w a floor in front of u .. and they want u centered to the floor . I’ve heard subs are better in corners , and also coupled . So u would have tops on tripod in front of floor and the. 2 subs in one corner ? If a person prefers that “ chest thump mid bass , would that still be the same positioning ? People like me could use a mini class on this for sure .

Quote:
To prevent self cancellation, subs should be put next to a boundary, or more than 8' from a boundary. The same Laws of Physics apply to tops. Placing your 15" tops on tripods, 5' to 6' in the air (thus 5' to 6' from the floor, which is a boundary), GUARANTEES you will have a bass suck-out at some frequency, that NO amount of EQ or DSP can fix.

A lot of people in this thread have recommended 12" tops (for better mid-range) with sub(s) - you should listen to them!


Every boundary you place your subs against gives you approximately a 3db boost in volume. So on the floor gives you 3db, coupled (side by side) gives you another 3db (plus the 3db you'd get from having 2 subs), if you place the sub against a wall, it's another 3, and if it's in a corner, it's another 3.

That said, optimal setup will really depend on the room. It's well and good to get a bit more volume when you put it in a corner, but if the sub is too far away from the dancefloor it can leave the room sounding unbalanced or you'll lose the felt bass on the floor.

I usually just couple the subs front and center in front of the dancefloor to give the patrons maximum amount of felt bass - I'd rather sacrifice a bit of volume to have the best experience on the dancefloor.
Hanginon 2:09 AM - 31 December, 2018
Quote:
Every boundary you place your subs against gives you approximately a 3db boost in volume. So on the floor gives you 3db, coupled (side by side) gives you another 3db (plus the 3db you'd get from having 2 subs), if you place the sub against a wall, it's another 3, and if it's in a corner, it's another 3.

In Theory, yes. Unfortunately, this is only true for concrete or brick walls. Low frequencies go through typical drywall construction - if you can hear it on the other side of the wall, the energy is not being reflected back into the room, and you don't get the 3db boost. This is why people are often disappointed when they try this.
DJMikeyJ 6:53 PM - 1 January, 2019
There are basic rules (of physics) around the optimal placement of subs and mid highs which has already been said by many a learned on this forum (Respec to you all) and is nothing new; literature on this stuff goes back years but we do need to understand some of this to get the best out of our set. There was a time I did not understand the benefits of coupling, and if I did it was not due to knowledge but that (for example) the venue needed more speakers so, if in one venue, a stack a side would suffice; in a larger venue two per side were needed! All I knew was that it sounded right, hit hard and covered the space.

I followed large reggae sound systems to dances, outdoor festvals, carnivals etc when I was a teenager and subliminally picked up on where they placed speakers, how different systems arranged their equipment, so I just emulated them when I started my own humble set in my mid teens. Over the years I picked up on the differences in room sizes, room shapes, ceiling heights, surface types, reflections, absorbtion, throw, dispersion etc. These challenges came about through the multitude of types of venues and customers I dealt with. I had no fancy technical equipment to analyse rooms and equalise the system to the particular acoustics etc, it was all ears, walking around the venue, standing in places where customers would be to appreciate the experience then I would adjust the speaker placement (as much as I could) to make good spots where the bass was lacking. Some venues were more successful than others but overall I gained a general appreciation which I apply autonomically (without really thinking in other words).

I always check out the venue at least a week before the gig so I know exactly what I am dealing with. I ask questions about the placement of tables and other paraphernalia, where people will be sitting, I make suggestions about where I would be set up (again where I can, in many venues this is fixed). I also ask about the customers expectations for the function. From all this came to the view that I needed a range and amount of equipment to meet most events that I would do. I am not a large sound system by any stretch of the imagination and most all of my equpment are second hand, fairly old and a mixture of passive and active. However I am able to cater for all the events I do to my satisfaction and the customers. (In terms of the latter, not all patrons want thumping bass in their ears in the hall; they may want to see the action an hear the music but if they want to feel the B line, then they get to the dance floor. Expectations in a 'dance or disco' are however different as you need to cover the whole floorspace. One point to slip in - take more than enough cable for just in case there are placement issues on the night beyond your control.

What I am basically saying is that the craft needs to be learned in the field despite learning the science and basic rules. A lot of DJ's these days learn how to use a controller and mix tunes to a crowd for an hour or two but have no or limited real world experience of the sound system behind the sound, understanding and respect for the equipment and sound quality. in my day I used to play from 6pm of an evening to 06.00AM the following morning, every weekend in various venues up and down the country (London - all over N/S/E/W -, Luton, Birmingham, Coventry etc). There was no DJ juggling after an hour or so, maybe just two of you. If the sound was poor or perceivd to be so, you got it directly in the neck. And worse, other sound systems guys would specifically set them selves up to be critical of your sound and spread the word if your aint saying anything quality or power wise, That was your cred on the line!

Also there are lots, in fact one is spoilt for choice, of good equipment second hand. When the Pdiddy's, DJ Soo's et all and hire companies of the world change up to the latest, there are people like me who pick up the pieces dirt cheap (sorry guys - lol).

Hope I haven't gone of track with the discussion!