DJing Discussion

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Introducing SpinTools

SpinTools 3:37 AM - 4 July, 2016
Hey Serato Fam,

I have a few threads around the board poking at the idea i had, a Library Management App.
(Here: serato.com and here: serato.com)

Today, I want to officially announce the app SpinTools.
Our website is here: spintools.io

Some core features are:
- Serato, Traktor, and Rekordbox Integration
- Cross DVS Library Management (Moving/Copying crates between apps)
- Tag Editing
- Duplicate Detection
- Trends - Staying up-to-date with DJ City, Billboard, and Beatport's most popular/best sellers
- Library & Crate Statistics - Seeing what you play most, duration, etc
- Easy Crate Creation - Create crates from your file system
And that's just what I want to tell you about. There's more, but I can't spill the beans on all of it's functionality.

Just to note: THIS IS NOT AVAILABLE YET! A few folks have reached out to me regarding Betas, we're looking to start alpha testing in September and Beta in October/November.

We're open to all suggestions. After all, we're building this tool for you.

Make sure to subscribe on the website with your email, or follow us on the social media outlets (as per the website).
d:raf 3:58 AM - 4 July, 2016
I'm in...
DJ Ravien 4:06 AM - 4 July, 2016
Sounds awesome, If the duplicate detection works better then iTunes, etc I am definitely game! All the rest would just be butter on my toast.

Looking forward to it.

Do you have an estimated price yet?
Papa Midnight 2:51 PM - 4 July, 2016
Ah man, it's getting real now!
Cuervo 3:51 PM - 4 July, 2016
Duplicate detection, would be nice if lets you know what files are the ones with the cues and loops saved so you dont delete them.

I delete the duplicate files inside Serato so i can keep the files that already have beatgrids, cues and loops.
DJ_Andre_905 4:44 PM - 4 July, 2016
This looks dope homey. By the way, I am a friend of your homies DJ Jay and DJ KW. This is great for DJs with large libraries. Not sure if you have experienced this issue but I had to stop using Scratch Live and was forced to switch to Serato DJ because of my large library. Scratch Live would crash since it could not handle large databases. I assume this would not affect Scratch Live or Serato DJ?
SpinTools 5:15 PM - 4 July, 2016
Quote:
Do you have an estimated price yet?

No price point yet, though we're not in the game of breaking bank. It'll be reasonable, enough for server costs, etc.

Quote:
This looks dope homey. By the way, I am a friend of your homies DJ Jay and DJ KW. This is great for DJs with large libraries. Not sure if you have experienced this issue but I had to stop using Scratch Live and was forced to switch to Serato DJ because of my large library. Scratch Live would crash since it could not handle large databases. I assume this would not affect Scratch Live or Serato DJ?

Sup dude! Awesome seeing 905/416 folk on here. Unfortunately this won't solve the issue of Scratch Live crashing, but it will give you the tools to see the extra fat in your library and help trim back the tracks that are just taking up space.
Delisle 5:33 PM - 4 July, 2016
Sounds amazing!!!
Scully DJ Services 12:48 AM - 5 July, 2016
Quote:
This looks dope homey. By the way, I am a friend of your homies DJ JayBeeL and DJ KW181. This is great for DJs with large libraries. Not sure if you have experienced this issue but I had to stop using Scratch Live and was forced to switch to Serato DJ because of my large library. Scratch Live would crash since it could not handle large databases. I assume this would not affect Scratch Live or Serato DJ?
SirForce 2:54 PM - 5 July, 2016
Tracking this...
INTRINITY 2:55 PM - 5 July, 2016
Ahhhh this is like the second coming of Christ!! Lol can't wait to see what you've been working so hard on brother!
eyflyguy 7:20 PM - 5 July, 2016
Been reading up on this and just have a couple questions. Can this tell me a play count? Like how many times I play the song in serato?

& can this tool copy my music folders and turn them into crates in serato?
SpinTools 3:35 AM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:
Been reading up on this and just have a couple questions. Can this tell me a play count? Like how many times I play the song in serato?

& can this tool copy my music folders and turn them into crates in serato?


Yes, we can tell you a play count from Serato.

Yes, this tool has the ability to create crates+subcrates from your folders.
eyflyguy 4:35 PM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Been reading up on this and just have a couple questions. Can this tell me a play count? Like how many times I play the song in serato?

& can this tool copy my music folders and turn them into crates in serato?


Yes, we can tell you a play count from Serato.

Yes, this tool has the ability to create crates+subcrates from your folders.


Sold! I'd love to beta test if you release beta versions of it!!
ParisCreative 5:35 PM - 6 July, 2016
Throwing my hat in the ring of beta testing as well. :)
dj_spark 5:51 PM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:

- Serato, Traktor, and Rekordbox Integration
- Cross DVS Library Management (Moving/Copying crates between apps)


Are grid, cues and loops moved too between apps ?
Are you looking at rekordBuddy 2.0 ?

I have moved my collection to Itunes since 2 years, using Audio Comparer for duplicate content, BeaTunes for tags consistency. I like to switch from Serato/Traktor/Rekordbox with different setup so I need my library to be as universal as possible.
DJMIYAGI 6:12 PM - 6 July, 2016
This gets my +1
SpinTools 6:46 PM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:

Are grid, cues and loops moved too between apps ?
Are you looking at rekordBuddy 2.0 ?

I have moved my collection to Itunes since 2 years, using Audio Comparer for duplicate content, BeaTunes for tags consistency. I like to switch from Serato/Traktor/Rekordbox with different setup so I need my library to be as universal as possible.


Cues and loops yes. Grid will come in a future update. Currently we don't have a strong enough understanding of the different grid features across DVS apps.

rekordBuddy 2.0 is neat, does some similar things.

BeaTunes is great for tag consistency. We'll be nowhere near that level of analysis at initial release, but all will come in time.

We have a large feature set across multiple areas of library management for our initial release. Once the app is considered stable and has a strong foundation, we can begin fine-tuning and enhancing our tools to make your experience greater.

Our primary focus is to develop a sinple platform for all your libraries.
dj_spark 7:13 PM - 6 July, 2016
I'm very tempted, and the gui is already ok for me ! ^^
One last question : available for pc ? I would say yes, because this looks alike something coded with java.
Also subscribed to that newsletter. ;)
SpinTools 7:42 PM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:
One last question : available for pc ? I would say yes, because this looks alike something coded with java.


Yes! Cross-platform! Not entirely sure the specifics of what OS versions, but definitely Windows 10 and El Capitan

Looks like Java? Not sure if that'a complement or insult, ha! It's 10000% not Java.
Papa Midnight 10:13 PM - 6 July, 2016
Quote:
Looks like Java? Not sure if that'a complement or insult, ha! It's 10000% not Java.


Bwahhahahhahahaha!
dj_spark 7:18 AM - 7 July, 2016
Quote:
Looks like Java? Not sure if that'a complement or insult, ha! It's 10000% not Java.

I guess if you want to be crossplatform easily it is a complement.
SirForce 10:11 AM - 7 July, 2016
Being cross platform is smart.
SpinTools 2:11 AM - 28 July, 2016
Hey All!

Just an update: we've released a blog. We'll be posting all updates, releases, and changelogs here: spintools.io

Blog Post #1: spintools.io
Blog Post #2: spintools.io

Cheers,
SpinTools
AKIEM 2:17 AM - 28 July, 2016
Turn Me Up!
DJ Dub (DC's Own) 12:46 AM - 29 July, 2016
Can't wait!
djkurve 5:32 PM - 29 July, 2016
I'm all in for the alpha/beta testing!
i am Dj fLiP 8:28 PM - 29 July, 2016
<--- interested
DJ P Dot 11:39 AM - 30 July, 2016
very interested in this!
DJ Ravien 2:59 PM - 30 July, 2016
Still looking forward to this.
Marv Incredible 11:00 PM - 30 July, 2016
Feature Request: So often, when doing library management in SDJ I've wished we had the ability to compare two crates side by side. Something like this:
i64.tinypic.com
SpinTools 3:18 AM - 31 July, 2016
Quote:
Feature Request: So often, when doing library management in SDJ I've wished we had the ability to compare two crates side by side. Something like this:
i64.tinypic.com


Comparing crates would be pretty sweet... We'll add it to the list!
Marv Incredible 4:31 AM - 31 July, 2016
Quote:
[insert request here] would be pretty sweet... We'll add it to the list!

Reminds me of the old days in here.



Anyway, Cheers! That's music to my ears. =)
Marv Incredible 4:39 AM - 31 July, 2016
p.s. Whan I say 'compare', I really just mean side-by-side. So we can not only compare, but move tracks across, quickly copy and paste tags, etc.
i am Dj fLiP 7:02 PM - 1 August, 2016
also, would MP4's (music videos) be supported with this?

it would be AWESOME if it does!
DJ Quartz 8:58 PM - 1 August, 2016
I just saw this now, yes MP4 support would be important. That is what my current tagger is missing.

Also, I'm using Alchemie Zinc right now but it seems the communication has dropped off from them so not to sure what is happening there.

If it's robust and has a good workflow, I would definitely like to try it.
Res-Q 2:31 AM - 4 August, 2016
+1 MP4 is a must. I look forward to try this!
ParisCreative 2:40 AM - 4 August, 2016
Question to the developers, what is the logic being used for duplicate detection? Filename? Artist/Track based of % match? Deeper integration with things like Acoustic ID?
DJ Remy USA 4:42 PM - 4 August, 2016
Looks cool
SpinTools 12:52 AM - 5 August, 2016
Quote:
also, would MP4's (music videos) be supported with this?

it would be AWESOME if it does!


Quote:
I just saw this now, yes MP4 support would be important. That is what my current tagger is missing.


Quote:
+1 MP4 is a must. I look forward to try this!


Yes, MP4 support is on our radar. Honestly, we have never really worked with MP4s on this scale. If we feel it's too steep of a learning curve prior to release, or isn't stable enough, we will add support in an update.
SpinTools 1:06 AM - 5 August, 2016
Quote:
Question to the developers, what is the logic being used for duplicate detection? Filename? Artist/Track based of % match? Deeper integration with things like Acoustic ID?


You may have noticed in a previous message from DJ Stoyvo about duplicate detection in a prototype/theory thread on the forum (serato.com). We're using some functionality of that prototype, but also extending it to allow for more user customization. So yes you can compare filenames, or you can compare specific tags, exclude specific details such as "ft, feat, ., (comma), single and double quotes", etc.

We have played with the idea of AcoustID, but no solid plans for it yet.

We will write a blog post when we get to that point in development. Still a long ways away from that :(
ParisCreative 1:07 AM - 5 August, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Question to the developers, what is the logic being used for duplicate detection? Filename? Artist/Track based of % match? Deeper integration with things like Acoustic ID?


You may have noticed in a previous message from DJ Stoyvo about duplicate detection in a prototype/theory thread on the forum (serato.com). We're using some functionality of that prototype, but also extending it to allow for more user customization. So yes you can compare filenames, or you can compare specific tags, exclude specific details such as "ft, feat, ., (comma), single and double quotes", etc.

We have played with the idea of AcoustID, but no solid plans for it yet.

We will write a blog post when we get to that point in development. Still a long ways away from that :(


Totally understand. It's a huge undertaking. Can't wait to see the product and hopefully I can be part of the alpha/beta team. :)
Marv Incredible 12:58 AM - 6 August, 2016
Request. The ability to copy one tag field to another. Single and/or batch. i.e. Copy Genre to Grouping for all selected files.

Even more bad-ass (though rarely necessary) would be the ability to take multiple tags and copy or move them to a multi-line tab, such as comments, lyrics etc. But I'd be more than happy with just the basic one-to-one transfer.

I currently have to use Tag&Rename over a networked PC to achieve this. I've been looking at Mac equivalents but I haven't settled on one yet. Maybe I won't have to bother looking any further? :) Anyway, all the best guys.
DJ Quartz 1:01 AM - 6 August, 2016
Quote:
I currently have to use Tag&Rename over a networked PC to achieve this. I've been looking at Mac equivalents but I haven't settled on one yet. Maybe I won't have to bother looking any further? :) Anyway, all the best guys.


This is why I'm still using Dr. Tag over the network to my mac. Been using it since 2003.
Cuervo 1:28 AM - 6 August, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
I currently have to use Tag&Rename over a networked PC to achieve this. I've been looking at Mac equivalents but I haven't settled on one yet. Maybe I won't have to bother looking any further? :) Anyway, all the best guys.


This is why I'm still using Dr. Tag over the network to my mac. Been using it since 2003.


Im using MetaBliss and it works perfect for me but i will try SpinTools if they have the delete duplicates option.
Papa Midnight 4:53 AM - 6 August, 2016
Mp3tag has been, hands down, the best tagger I've used to date.
SpinTools 3:50 PM - 7 August, 2016
Quote:
Request. The ability to copy one tag field to another. Single and/or batch. i.e. Copy Genre to Grouping for all selected files.

This is a neat idea. One thing we're aiming to do is to provide a way to identify tags through text. For example, if you wanted to use the BPM tag, you would use the tag editor and in any tag field you can enter %BPM%. This would replace %BPM% with the BPM value of that track. Using the main library list, you could select any amount of tracks you wish to perform the operation on.

We'll be making a series of youtube videos for tutorials, and how to use some of the complex tools.

Quote:
Even more bad-ass (though rarely necessary) would be the ability to take multiple tags and copy or move them to a multi-line tab, such as comments, lyrics etc. But I'd be more than happy with just the basic one-to-one transfer.

We'll add this to the suggestion board and review after the app launches. I know this is said way too often, but we mean it ;)

Quote:
I currently have to use Tag&Rename over a networked PC to achieve this. I've been looking at Mac equivalents but I haven't settled on one yet. Maybe I won't have to bother looking any further? :) Anyway, all the best guys.

Yeah, there's a ton of tag editors out there. We still feel it's important to include it in our app simply because your Serato library can contain files from anywhere on the file system. Not everyone keeps their files in an organized place, we all use a file we recently downloaded without moving it, etc, and there's always the chance that we don't remember to tag a file.
DJ Quartz 3:56 PM - 7 August, 2016
Quote:
eah, there's a ton of tag editors out there. We still feel it's important to include it in our app simply because your Serato library can contain files from anywhere on the file system. Not everyone keeps their files in an organized place, we all use a file we recently downloaded without moving it, etc, and there's always the chance that we don't remember to tag a file.


Look at the applications we mentioned, the reason I stuck with Dr. Tag so long even though the company went defunct and there was no Mac version was.... WORKFLOW

Nothing I've used out there could top the workflow in this application.
SpinTools 4:26 PM - 7 August, 2016
Quote:
Nothing I've used out there could top the workflow in this application.

We're ready to take it on ;)
msoultan 1:46 AM - 15 August, 2016
I noticed it wasn't mentioned in this thread so I wanted to suggest having orphan functionality to find if a track is not in any crates. Comes in really handy to let you know if you've added a track to the library but forgotten to sort it into its appropriate crate.

Thanks!
Mike
SpinTools 1:58 AM - 17 August, 2016
Quote:
I noticed it wasn't mentioned in this thread so I wanted to suggest having orphan functionality to find if a track is not in any crates. Comes in really handy to let you know if you've added a track to the library but forgotten to sort it into its appropriate crate.

Thanks!
Mike


Great idea! We'll add it as an option to view via statistics.

We have plans to really take advantage of the search functionality. Keywords such as:
is:orphan
is:mp3

... But more on that after we launch... Need to save some tricks to keep everyone interested!
msoultan 3:12 AM - 17 August, 2016
It would also be helpful to know what crates a song is in. There have been times where I search for a track and I find it globally, but I don't know which crate I've sorted it into. This would probably be more helpful within seraro dj, but I think it would still be helpful to get a report that listed tracks and what crates that track is included in.
msoultan 3:13 AM - 17 August, 2016
If there's any way I can help out, please let me know. I'm happy to test it for you and report any issues.
SpinTools 3:20 AM - 17 August, 2016
Quote:
It would also be helpful to know what crates a song is in. There have been times where I search for a track and I find it globally, but I don't know which crate I've sorted it into. This would probably be more helpful within seraro dj, but I think it would still be helpful to get a report that listed tracks and what crates that track is included in.


Check out the columns :)
spintools.io

All the songs are the same, that's because we're not done loading from external databases yet... but you get the idea :)
AKIEM 3:26 AM - 17 August, 2016
oh, for search could you do IS AND OR NOT type logic, at least NOT that would be excellent
SpinTools 3:36 AM - 17 August, 2016
Quote:
oh, for search could you do IS AND OR NOT type logic, at least NOT that would be excellent


By default we'll be using "AND", where a space is a separator between keywords.

IS - will be used for specific types. Initially it will be "is:orphan" and "is:mp3" or "is:mp4", etc

NOT - We want to make this easy to understand. We're planning on using: "not(clean)", so all results that contain "clear" are ignored.

We'll consider an OR operator... Just need to find an easy way of using it.
AKIEM 4:00 AM - 17 August, 2016
NOT is good enough for me.

thanks!
DJ Remy USA 11:23 AM - 17 August, 2016
I just need a import itunes library feature basically so I can migrate out of itunes and not use it anymore. Im sick of itunes at this point and I was one of its biggest supporters so Im looking for something new but migration has to be simple.
ParisCreative 1:11 PM - 17 August, 2016
Quote:
I just need a import itunes library feature basically so I can migrate out of itunes and not use it anymore. Im sick of itunes at this point and I was one of its biggest supporters so Im looking for something new but migration has to be simple.


DJ Remy, you can do this now since I have already personally done it. I too was a bit iTunes user but I did a few things that helped me transition away from iTunes, made a clean start with Serato, and I have been generally happy with the results. I can't wait for SpinTools to help augment that and keep everything on even greater point.

pariscreative.com
DJ Remy USA 5:43 PM - 17 August, 2016
How does it work I'll test it this weekends as I'm actually off Friday and Saturday night so I have one weekend to get this done.

What did you use to do the migration? I have smart playlist in iTunes and some regularly ones too will those migrate over? Thanks
DJ Remy USA 5:51 PM - 17 August, 2016
I need something more automated my library is huge I made the mistake of merging my gig library with my personal years ago. There's no going back now
DJ Stoyvo 9:01 PM - 17 August, 2016
Quote:
I need something more automated my library is huge I made the mistake of merging my gig library with my personal years ago. There's no going back now


I did the same thing. I wanted to become as versatile as possible and to carry one laptop with my everywhere... 5 music pools and 1 year of downloading the entire catalogs, and 3 HDDs full of media, Serato became a nightmare. We're talking 30 minute load times, crashing if I made a common smart-crate with thousands of tracks, searching took a 15 seconds. Nightmare.
msoultan 12:44 AM - 18 August, 2016
Quote:
Check out the columns :)
spintools.io

All the songs are the same, that's because we're not done loading from external databases yet... but you get the idea :)


That looks pretty cool! :)
ParisCreative 12:47 AM - 18 August, 2016
Quote:
How does it work I'll test it this weekends as I'm actually off Friday and Saturday night so I have one weekend to get this done.

What did you use to do the migration? I have smart playlist in iTunes and some regularly ones too will those migrate over? Thanks


The article I linked has links to the tools and the methods that I used. :)

Article: pariscreative.com
d:raf 5:19 AM - 27 August, 2016
My current pre-wedding workflow has inspired a question: as I understand it, I currently have to use I-tunes to sync music playlists to my Ipad so I can use it with dJay 2 as an emergency backup. Will there be either (a) a way to sync playlists with I-tunes in a sort of "slave" mode, and/or (b) a direct way to move/sync playlists to an Ipad for use in other apps?
SpinTools 12:53 AM - 30 August, 2016
Quote:
My current pre-wedding workflow has inspired a question: as I understand it, I currently have to use I-tunes to sync music playlists to my Ipad so I can use it with dJay 2 as an emergency backup. Will there be either (a) a way to sync playlists with I-tunes in a sort of "slave" mode, and/or (b) a direct way to move/sync playlists to an Ipad for use in other apps?


We have a way to work with the iTunes library, however we may not be able to directly modify the database of dJay 2
d:raf 2:18 AM - 30 August, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
My current pre-wedding workflow has inspired a question: as I understand it, I currently have to use I-tunes to sync music playlists to my Ipad so I can use it with dJay 2 as an emergency backup. Will there be either (a) a way to sync playlists with I-tunes in a sort of "slave" mode, and/or (b) a direct way to move/sync playlists to an Ipad for use in other apps?


We have a way to work with the iTunes library, however we may not be able to directly modify the database of dJay 2


That's okay; Djay 2 reads from the Itunes library on the Ipad, so that's all I would need.
DJ Quartz 3:08 AM - 30 August, 2016
Quote:

Check out the columns :)
spintools.io



Wow!
SpinTools 4:35 AM - 20 September, 2016
Progress Report #2!

We discuss the topics of:
- Tag Editor
- Media Player (this section will get a video update sometimes in the next week or two)
- Task Manager

As well as a few other little notes. Our primary focus was library performance and the media player over the past two months, however we only spoke about the media player. We want to do a second blog post regarding performance and library sizes....

Spoiler Alert: SpinTools can handle over 500,000 tracks... If you have more tracks than that, be sure to get in touch, we'll need an alpha tester or two.

spintools.io

Cheers folks!
deejaychoice 5:27 AM - 20 September, 2016
Beta/Alpha testing I'm down!
alec.tron 5:56 AM - 20 September, 2016
Congrats, this sounds very interesting.
I'm covered on the tag editing / metadata front, and have my perfect set of of tools for nearly every job I have found with Foobar & MusicBee.
The only thing I really need is DVS library management from one central hub for Windows 10, plus crate/playlist/library features that have become standard in some, yet none of the 3 big DVS systems has a (imo) good unified approach for this.
So far Rekordbuddy for Windows was my only straw, now you're on the radar as well. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
If you need technically minded beta testers, sing out.
Churs.
c.
Marv Incredible 6:24 AM - 20 September, 2016
Awesome. Keep up the good work.
Papa Midnight 6:48 PM - 20 September, 2016
Quote:
- Tag Editor


Question, because I know this came up in the last thread about supporting ID3v2.3 and v2.4, and your note about being surprised that 2.4 wasn't more widely adopted.

Do you plan to write ID3 v2.3 or v2.4 tags by default, and is this a switchable option? I noted the option present when editing the individual file in your screenshot, but I'm curious as to if there will be a global option available as well.

Quote:
- Media Player (this section will get a video update sometimes in the next week or two)


This right here. This is awesome.

I know you said in the other thread that respondents would receive a free copy of the app, and while I was one of the them, I'm down for testing as well if necessary.

Keep up the awesome work!
Culprit 8:59 PM - 20 September, 2016
if the app has a built in video player, il buy it. keep me posted please.
SpinTools 2:52 AM - 21 September, 2016
Quote:
Do you plan to write ID3 v2.3 or v2.4 tags by default, and is this a switchable option? I noted the option present when editing the individual file in your screenshot, but I'm curious as to if there will be a global option available as well.


We're looking at a number of options here. It could be a default setting via Setup, or we can implement a system that remembers the users selection from the last tag.
SpinTools 2:53 AM - 21 September, 2016
Quote:
if the app has a built in video player, il buy it. keep me posted please.


This is on our to-do list, however we don't have it promised for initial release. It would be included in the first feature update if we can't finish this by the first release.
DJ Quartz 4:47 PM - 21 September, 2016
Crate Statistics would be a great addition as well.
SpinTools 6:00 PM - 21 September, 2016
Quote:
Crate Statistics would be a great addition as well.


This isn't finalized, but it's on our list! This will most likely change in design, but temporarily it looks like this: spintools.io
Papa Midnight 7:17 PM - 21 September, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Crate Statistics would be a great addition as well.


This isn't finalized, but it's on our list! This will most likely change in design, but temporarily it looks like this: spintools.io

Oh that's awesome.
Marv Incredible 7:20 PM - 21 September, 2016
Dope
alec.tron 8:56 PM - 21 September, 2016
Heya SpinTools,
I was wondering when I saw this - on this screenshot:
spintools.io
it looks as if all DVS's are represented by their own group, with their own sub crates, which seem to differ between your DVS apps in that screenshot ?
Does the user have to micro manage each of the 3 separately ?
There could be some upsides to that, but for my workflow, I would want to only manage 1 master library, and have changes in the 'master' be replicated in each of the 3 DVS libraries.
What's the case here ?

And, can you import crates/playlists from (multiple) external files too ?
eg could I point to (or drag and drop) a whole folder that has 100s of .m3u files in various sub-folders, and they get replicated as groups/creates/subcrates based on the folder/file.m3u names ?? (That would be my absolute ideal...)

Cheers.
c.
Culprit 9:01 PM - 21 September, 2016
It's probably pulling from Serato's history section correct?

This is hella dope man.
nik39 9:28 PM - 21 September, 2016
Quote:
This is hella dope man.

+1
DJ Dub (DC's Own) 11:34 PM - 21 September, 2016
I can't wait!!
SpinTools 12:21 AM - 22 September, 2016
Quote:
Heya SpinTools,
I was wondering when I saw this - on this screenshot:
spintools.io
it looks as if all DVS's are represented by their own group, with their own sub crates, which seem to differ between your DVS apps in that screenshot ?
Does the user have to micro manage each of the 3 separately ?
There could be some upsides to that, but for my workflow, I would want to only manage 1 master library, and have changes in the 'master' be replicated in each of the 3 DVS libraries.
What's the case here ?

And, can you import crates/playlists from (multiple) external files too ?
eg could I point to (or drag and drop) a whole folder that has 100s of .m3u files in various sub-folders, and they get replicated as groups/creates/subcrates based on the folder/file.m3u names ?? (That would be my absolute ideal...)

Cheers.
c.


There's a few ways we're handling this. We don't have anything built yet but our idea here is to allow the user to import specific crates.

The user is presented with a list of crates, similar to the crate list on the left, with checkboxes. If a checkbox is selected, that crate will sync with the current DVS. For example:
1) User right-clicks Traktor DVS
2) User opens Sync tab
3) User selects which crates from other DVS to sync with
4) User selects which crate to sync to, or leave empty to re-create from the selected DVS
additionally: User can select ALL and all crates from selected DVS are synced.

Ideally we want SpinTools to have it's own Library and have other DVS systems sync from SpinTools. More on this as we develop in this functionality.

The idea of creating crates from an .m3u hasn't come up yet, however we have the ability to sync crates from a filesystem where sub-folders create sub-crates. (Similar to the amazing ScratchTools we all loved).

We'll go into more detail about crate management when we get there and are happy with our functionality.
SpinTools 1:07 AM - 22 September, 2016
Quote:
It's probably pulling from Serato's history section correct?

This is hella dope man.


;) I haven't seen anyone use the serato history yet... Not sure why. Seems important enough if you ask me.
alec.tron 1:37 AM - 22 September, 2016
Thanks for the replies!
As for
Quote:

Ideally we want SpinTools to have it's own Library and have other DVS systems sync from SpinTools. More on this as we develop in this functionality.

+1. Awesome, all the best & really looking forward to what you come up with.


Quote:

The idea of creating crates from an .m3u hasn't come up yet, however we have the ability to sync crates from a filesystem where sub-folders create sub-crates. (Similar to the amazing ScratchTools we all loved).

Serato does this, i.e. create a crate out of a dragNdropped m3u playlist. Unfortunately only 1by1.
I try to be software agnostic as much as I can. So m3u I find are the best way to store playlists & crates, and not rely on a DVS systems internals to keep my playlists/crates safe.
DJ Quartz 2:05 AM - 22 September, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Crate Statistics would be a great addition as well.


This isn't finalized, but it's on our list! This will most likely change in design, but temporarily it looks like this: spintools.io


That's damn cool!
Culprit 2:19 AM - 22 September, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
It's probably pulling from Serato's history section correct?

This is hella dope man.


;) I haven't seen anyone use the serato history yet... Not sure why. Seems important enough if you ask me.


Yeah not even the Serato team man!
ParisCreative 10:36 PM - 16 October, 2016
So how are things progressing. Would love to be beta testing. :)
SpinTools 2:46 AM - 17 October, 2016
Quote:
So how are things progressing. Would love to be beta testing. :)


Working on it! We want it out the door as much as you do...

Not much of an update available from what was posted in our blog, but we can provide a list of what we're working on at the moment:

1) Adding crate to your library - We want it to be simple and still giving the user as much flexibility possible. It's messy, but here's what we're working on at the moment: spintools.io

2) Content licensing issues - Beatport has been very unresponsive. Communication with them has been slow, cryptic, and frustrating. Hoping to get direct contact from friends who were involved with developing their web platform. Billboard wants us to pay a licensing fee, which is fine, but they haven't moved forward much since that. DJ City has been great through this whole thing, looking forward to future conversation with them. DMS has pulled through and given us access to their top charts... Which leads me into the next topic.

3) Server-side development - We're building the infrastructure for all things such as getting the latest trends from all different sources, license activation, help system, and pushing out updates.


Overall, we're not making as much progress as we'd like. Fall 2016 was a very ambitious delivery date considering we have many moving parts on all ends (Trends providers, server infrastructure, UI development, "backend" development). We're on track for an Alpha release and we expect a fast transition between Alpha -> Beta -> Full Release.
DJ Quartz 6:04 AM - 17 October, 2016
This is looking and sounding like a mega tool thus far. Wow!
webshark 6:53 AM - 17 October, 2016
Sounds fantastic..
REDSELECTER 7:12 PM - 18 October, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
So how are things progressing. Would love to be beta testing. :)


Working on it! We want it out the door as much as you do...

Not much of an update available from what was posted in our blog, but we can provide a list of what we're working on at the moment:

1) Adding crate to your library - We want it to be simple and still giving the user as much flexibility possible. It's messy, but here's what we're working on at the moment: spintools.io

2) Content licensing issues - Beatport has been very unresponsive. Communication with them has been slow, cryptic, and frustrating. Hoping to get direct contact from friends who were involved with developing their web platform. Billboard wants us to pay a licensing fee, which is fine, but they haven't moved forward much since that. DJ City has been great through this whole thing, looking forward to future conversation with them. DMS has pulled through and given us access to their top charts... Which leads me into the next topic.

3) Server-side development - We're building the infrastructure for all things such as getting the latest trends from all different sources, license activation, help system, and pushing out updates.


Overall, we're not making as much progress as we'd like. Fall 2016 was a very ambitious delivery date considering we have many moving parts on all ends (Trends providers, server infrastructure, UI development, "backend" development). We're on track for an Alpha release and we expect a fast transition between Alpha -> Beta -> Full Release.


Speaking for myself - I don't care about the content and server side stuff - if it is there it will be nice (maybe) but what I REALLY need are the other standalone features - fast w/ large libraries, syncing cue points etc between Serato, Traktor, Rekordbox, metadata tools, etc.

I'm curious if you've polled people here and other places to see what their priority features are - having a working offline version sooner would be my preference.
ParisCreative 7:49 PM - 18 October, 2016
Likewise
DJ Stoyvo 11:45 PM - 18 October, 2016
Quote:
I'm curious if you've polled people here and other places to see what their priority features are - having a working offline version sooner would be my preference.


We have not polled any users, though as DJs we live the day-to-day life of frustrations and limitations a DJ faces in the Library Management space. Following the feature requests board here on Serato is enough for us to get a good idea of general demand.

Some of the server-side stuff is required, such as the online store, activation services, and auto-updates are important to have from the initial release. Services such as Trends and working with these content providers are "nice to have" features that honestly don't take much time to implement.

I will outline our priorities:
1) Library Management - Managing crates, moving between DVS systems, and find duplicates are our first priority.

2) Cues/Loops - We feel that editing hot cues and loops are important. Shouldn't need to edit it elsewhere when managing your library. Also gives us an opportunity to flex our muscles in the usability and design front, so a nice learning curve for us as well.

3) Tag Editor - There are many tag editors already available, we're sure some do it better than us too, however we feel this integrates well and will be used frequently.

4) Find & Replace - Also useful, though we don't expect it to be used by everyone.

5) Trends - We feel this is important enough to have on launch, though we can release it later. One way to combat duplicate tracks is by knowing what you have already and probably will need.

6) Everything else - the little bits here and there, such as statistics.
ParisCreative 12:10 AM - 19 October, 2016
Sounds like a master plan. Just remember there are some of us here willing to help out on Alpha release. :)
SpinTools 12:51 AM - 19 October, 2016
Quote:
I'm curious if you've polled people here and other places to see what their priority features are - having a working offline version sooner would be my preference.


Stoyvo pretty much summed it up.

Quote:
Sounds like a master plan. Just remember there are some of us here willing to help out on Alpha release. :)


Of course! The moment we know it's good enough to give us a fighting chance at positive reviews :) Oh, and when we're in the clear, legally. Pioneer is making that difficult, but talks will continue :)
alec.tron 1:17 AM - 19 October, 2016
Good luck with the progress! There's quite a few features now from the sounds...
c.
REDSELECTER 1:23 AM - 19 October, 2016
Thanks to the SpinTools ppl for the response!

From your list of features I have two comments:

- integrated metadata tools are very important to me, as they don't require a roundtrip to an external tool (and subsequent refresh)

- if you gave me a tool right now that just had library and metadata features and nothing else yet (no cue points, etc.) - that alone would be amazing. I'd gladly start with that while the rest was finished.

BTW I'm a software engineer so would also love to test.
tbone8 1:55 AM - 19 October, 2016
Sounds great guys.
I think your right I currently use serato to do loops cue points etc but prefer MP3 tag so the ability o do all this in one setup and be able to see it across platforms eg recordbox will be awesome!
Keep it up
nik39 5:29 AM - 19 October, 2016
Quote:
find duplicates are our first priority.

... And please 'merge' those files, as in merging the meta data of the 'master track' with those of the copies, and of course replacing those files references inside your library and crate, including history with the reference master's reference.
Does that make sense?

:))
ParisCreative 1:52 PM - 19 October, 2016
That would be truly ideal. Here is a scenario that is pretty common for me. I am re-ripping music as FLAC as I have the time, but I have meta data from original files that I would love to sync. So what would be cool is not only compare files and identify the best quality one, but also sync the meta over to the new file if I wish.
Marv Incredible 2:36 PM - 19 October, 2016
I'll chime in here quickly with this:

I can't remember exactly how I did it and what tool I used, but at some point in the past I was able to successfully clone ALL metadata from one version of a file to another, such as when replacing a 192k file with a better, 320k version for example.

When I did so, I was able to copy not only the generic or visible tag info, but also the normally 'hidden' information, such as cue points, overview analysis etc, saving me from having to re-do the work all over again. Obviously, unless the tracks were completely identical, this wouldn't always work, nor would it always be desirable, but there were and still are many instances where this would be a useful and powerful time-saver.

So it would be nice to have the ability to 'clone' that data and transfer it to a different file for those occasions when such a function would work well.
Papa Midnight 2:44 PM - 19 October, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
find duplicates are our first priority.

... And please 'merge' those files, as in merging the meta data of the 'master track' with those of the copies, and of course replacing those files references inside your library and crate, including history with the reference master's reference.
Does that make sense?

:))


If this program can copy loops and hot cues between multiple songs (i.e.: set cues and loops in "Some Artist (feat. Some Other Artist) - Some Song (Clean)" and clone them to "Some Artist (feat. Some Other Artist) - Some Song (Dirty)"), that would be awesome.
ParisCreative 2:49 PM - 19 October, 2016
Papa Midnight, I don;t think that would work as you expect. Cue points are set I believe at specific times (0.00.0000) and those times would not be mimicked across multiple versions of a song. Each song is unique in that regard.

It's one thing to copy/sync id3 tag info. another to expect cue points to be identical even across the same song but different rips.
Marv Incredible 2:54 PM - 19 October, 2016
One more thing. I've dicussed this previously with Nik39, among others, where it'd be great to be able to mass-edit cue point data on many files at once. For example, changing any/all orange cue points to yellow ones.

Why? I, like many others, take full advantage of the cue point colors in SDJ and have developed a code based system from it so that red cue points mean one thing, green mean something else etc.

However, since first developing it, I've now made improvements to that system, but to implement those changes retrospectively would require me to load each and every file I've ever done and painstakingly change them one at a time. Not gonna happen, regardless of the benefits. But it also means I can't go ahead and apply changes to new files because I need to be able to trust the system across the entire library.

I even considered commissioning a tool to be created just for this purpose. Nik seemed to think this was such a simple request, he could theoretically knock up a tool in a matter of hours, but having the hours to do it was another matter altogether.

So yeah, if this feaure was a possibility, it'd get my vote for sure.
Papa Midnight 2:55 PM - 19 October, 2016
Quote:
Papa Midnight, I don;t think that would work as you expect. Cue points are set I believe at specific times (0.00.0000) and those times would not be mimicked across multiple versions of a song. Each song is unique in that regard.

It's one thing to copy/sync id3 tag info. another to expect cue points to be identical even across the same song but different rips.


Fully aware of that. It will get even more down in the weeds with Acapellas and Instrumentals. However, what I find commonly is that a lot of "Clean" songs are scrubbed over tracks from their original versions without much if any change in their starting frames. It's not like the old days where these were entirely different cuts.

That said, even if it couldn't be applied across all tracks, it could make enough of a dent to be viable.
Marv Incredible 2:56 PM - 19 October, 2016
@Paris, yeah, that's what I meant too about it sometimes not being feasilble or desirable, but there defeinitely are occasions when it does work and would come in handy.
Scully DJ Services 2:43 AM - 20 October, 2016
@ Marv and PM

I think a solution to this may be to allow people to duplicate over all cues and loops, but then have the ability to gradually "slide" them all at once back and forth if the timing of the song is a bit different in order to compensate for discrepancies in the beginning of a song. Thoughts?
AKIEM 4:33 AM - 20 October, 2016
Sounds like kind of a lot for the software to be doing...
Culprit 5:50 AM - 20 October, 2016
Quote:
Sounds like kind of a lot for the software to be doing...


Agreed
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:11 PM - 20 October, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
find duplicates are our first priority.

... And please 'merge' those files, as in merging the meta data of the 'master track' with those of the copies, and of course replacing those files references inside your library and crate, including history with the reference master's reference.
Does that make sense?

:))


LMAO @ you living vicariously through this GREAT Product....
nik39 2:35 PM - 21 October, 2016
Papa Midnight 7:49 PM - 21 October, 2016
Quote:
I think a solution to this may be to allow people to duplicate over all cues and loops, but then have the ability to gradually "slide" them all at once back and forth if the timing of the song is a bit different in order to compensate for discrepancies in the beginning of a song. Thoughts?


Quote:

Sounds like kind of a lot for the software to be doing...


How so? SSL, ITCH, and DJ allows you to manually slide Beatgrids -- unless the implication is that you're expecting the software to do this for you automatically.
SpinTools 4:49 AM - 22 November, 2016
Been keeping up with everyone... Don't have any comments yet, still need to speak it over with the team. We just want to get our initial list of things out the door :)

Anyways, progress report! spintools.io

Not a lot to talk about, just Crate Management things and the interface we're planning to go with. Been heads down in Serato data lately and optimizing how we read this data to keep the load times minimal.

Cheers for now!
Culprit 8:59 AM - 22 November, 2016
Looks good dude. How will it handle updates to crates? Just curious as to the work flow.
Res-Q 10:43 PM - 24 November, 2016
looking good keep it up. dont forget smart crates users too :)
Dj Ons 8:10 PM - 30 November, 2016
YEAH, this is great idea, we're waiting for a tool like this since a long time. A way to export our crates on a external hard drive or on a usbdrive on one click should be monster. Can't wait to test it.
Big Pops 9:18 PM - 30 November, 2016
This is great, can't wait to test this.
djarmandi 9:57 PM - 30 November, 2016
Quote:
If this program can copy loops and hot cues between multiple songs (i.e.: set cues and loops in "Some Artist (feat. Some Other Artist) - Some Song (Clean)" and clone them to "Some Artist (feat. Some Other Artist) - Some Song (Dirty)"), that would be awesome.


Some kind of "Copy Attributes" and "Paste Attributes" great idea, even with out the bpm or key, that can be analized later.
adb3 7:50 PM - 1 December, 2016
Personally, ANY track management software will NEED to display the overview in the browser as it's own column. (like RekordBox)

I have had quite a bit of luck getting this data out of the ID3 tag and rendering it as an image, now I have to display it correctly (and handle exceptions, ugh) in a webpage or better, some GUI.

Anyways, I would gladly contribute my knowledge of such things; provided this is a useful and desired feature (by more than just myself).

-AdB3
DJ Stoyvo 10:54 PM - 1 December, 2016
adb3, I'm interested... What data is available in the overview? Are we referring to the Serato Overview GEOB?
DJNemesis831 2:40 AM - 7 December, 2016
count me in on beta. I have a full team that would love to give their input
DJ Mat .live 6:45 PM - 7 December, 2016
Quote:
A few folks have reached out to me regarding Betas, we're looking to start alpha testing in September and Beta in October/November.

Make sure to subscribe on the website with your email, or follow us on the social media outlets (as per the website).


I have already subscribed on the website with my email... is this the right way to be a beta tester?
SpinTools 6:53 PM - 7 December, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
A few folks have reached out to me regarding Betas, we're looking to start alpha testing in September and Beta in October/November.

Make sure to subscribe on the website with your email, or follow us on the social media outlets (as per the website).


I have already subscribed on the website with my email... is this the right way to be a beta tester?


Ah.. yeah. Still not there :( Really bad estimate on our part. I'll update once we have a date in mind, we're pushing for Alpha this month or January.
DJ Mat .live 6:58 PM - 7 December, 2016
Quote:
Ah.. yeah. Still not there :( Really bad estimate on our part. I'll update once we have a date in mind, we're pushing for Alpha this month or January.


okay... i stay tuned...
DJ Quartz 7:32 PM - 7 December, 2016
Quote:
Ah.. yeah. Still not there :( Really bad estimate on our part. I'll update once we have a date in mind, we're pushing for Alpha this month or January.


Take your time guys to make sure you get it right.

There is that new tool Kado for crate digging that is coming out.

Are you looking to have this type of functionality?

It would be great to have a one stop shop go to tool for these kinds of things rather than running a whole bunch of different apps.
Culprit 11:56 PM - 7 December, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Ah.. yeah. Still not there :( Really bad estimate on our part. I'll update once we have a date in mind, we're pushing for Alpha this month or January.


Take your time guys to make sure you get it right.

There is that new tool Kado for crate digging that is coming out.

Are you looking to have this type of functionality?

It would be great to have a one stop shop go to tool for these kinds of things rather than running a whole bunch of different apps.


I agree, take your time man. If its a solid project its ganna sell its self!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:04 AM - 8 December, 2016
Quote:

Ah.. yeah. Still not there :( Really bad estimate on our part. I'll update once we have a date in mind, we're pushing for Alpha this month or January.


Man, don't fold due to peer pressure...

Take your TIME, and do that jawn correctly.

There's always someone who thinks it should have been released yesterday.
DJ Stoyvo 1:40 AM - 8 December, 2016
Thanks folks!

We aren't folding to peer pressure, but we also don't want to say "coming soon" for years either. Performance and quality is our highest priority, no point rushing it and facing harsh criticism because we cut corners.

Also... Kado?
DJ Stoyvo 1:41 AM - 8 December, 2016
Just found Kado on djtechtools, looks pretty neat! Tons of data to filter through though, which explains the subscription fee.
DJ Mat .live 3:10 AM - 8 December, 2016
I don't need kado...

I found my music since 30 years in my own, but I need a better tool for managing my music libery ...
DJ SUB 10:39 AM - 10 December, 2016
Cant wait since that iTunes have change i don't use it to create my play list anymore this seem like something ill use it will help as i use both Traktor & Serato to DJ
One Louder 1:22 PM - 13 December, 2016
Diggin' the sound of SpinTools already. Looking forward to seeing it in action.

I'd love to be able to sync/export music/playlists to my smart phone or stand alone media player so that I can listen to the music on the move. Most of my critical listening is done on the move, mostly in the car, and it's real pain at the moment getting music from Rekordbox, or any DJ software for that matter onto my phone. It'd be really handy to have a feature that converted the audio to a lower bit rate and exported playlists directly to Android or Iphone.
dus 4:42 PM - 30 December, 2016
waiting waiting waiting
Culprit 6:17 PM - 30 December, 2016
Quote:
waiting waiting waiting


Can't rush greatness, read a book while you wait 👍
SpinTools 6:21 PM - 30 December, 2016
Yeah :(

At this very moment we're building the tag reading for audio file formats:
- ACC
- AIF
- FLAC
- MP3
- MP4
- OGG
- VOB
- WAV
- WMA

Didn't expect the tags to take so long...
REDSELECTER 6:23 PM - 30 December, 2016
Quote:
Yeah :(

At this very moment we're building the tag reading for audio file formats:
- ACC
- AIF
- FLAC
- MP3
- MP4
- OGG
- VOB
- WAV
- WMA

Didn't expect the tags to take so long...


ALAC?
NI Stems?
SpinTools 6:26 PM - 30 December, 2016
Quote:

ALAC?
NI Stems?


ALAC will be added to the support list, the above is just what we're starting with.
REDSELECTER 6:33 PM - 30 December, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
ALAC?
NI Stems?


ALAC will be added to the support list, the above is just what we're starting with.


cool

not to editorialise, but I suspect (hope) a lot more ppl use ALAC than things like WMA...
SpinTools 6:43 PM - 30 December, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ALAC?
NI Stems?


ALAC will be added to the support list, the above is just what we're starting with.


cool

not to editorialise, but I suspect (hope) a lot more ppl use ALAC than things like WMA...


ALAC uses MPEG-4 a container, which is the same container as AAC (just realized my typo "ACC"). Once we get to ALAC, we're hoping it's the same or similar to AAC. Baby steps, but we're slowly getting there.
SpinTools 6:43 PM - 30 December, 2016
Wow, can't type today. Typos for days.
Marv Incredible 3:07 AM - 13 January, 2017
Quote:
Typos for days

So long as they're not in the code. :p
SpinTools 3:21 AM - 13 January, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Typos for days

So long as they're not in the code. :p


Hope not! Either we're loading the entire Direct Music Service library in 39 seconds from Serato Database + Crates, or we've made too many mistakes.

Time will tell :)
SpinTools 3:22 AM - 1 February, 2017
Hey Folks,

Been wanting to make an update for a while now, but we're stuck on a bug... want to have it fixed before the next announcement. Maybe the community can help.

We have Serato MarkerV2 GEOBs reading, but only on SOME tracks are cue points off-beat. Sometimes 0.4 seconds off. Does anyone know if Serato has some kind of offset value for cue points and how to find what that offset is?

Serato Offset_ hasn't been a very successful lead :(
REDSELECTER 4:26 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:
Hey Folks,

Been wanting to make an update for a while now, but we're stuck on a bug... want to have it fixed before the next announcement. Maybe the community can help.

We have Serato MarkerV2 GEOBs reading, but only on SOME tracks are cue points off-beat. Sometimes 0.4 seconds off. Does anyone know if Serato has some kind of offset value for cue points and how to find what that offset is?

Serato Offset_ hasn't been a very successful lead :(


sorry just going to take a few wild stabs here:

- any consistent characteristics of tracks that are off? diff sample rate or bit rate like 48k or 24 bit?

- absolute silence / zero padding at the start of the audio?

- cue points named or not?

- files analyzed or not?
SpinTools 4:31 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:

- any consistent characteristics of tracks that are off? diff sample rate or bit rate like 48k or 24 bit?

Sample rate and bitrate are consistent .

Quote:

- absolute silence / zero padding at the start of the audio?

There is silence before the first bit of sound, however working tracks do as well. SpinTools seems to be short 0.4 seconds sometimes, so far it looks like tracks with the issue have less silence padded at the beginning, though the difference in extra silence does not make up for the cue point difference.

Quote:

- cue points named or not?

It's a mix, sometimes are named, sometimes not.

Quote:

- files analyzed or not?

Files have been analyzed, but then again Serato does this on track load anyways so all tracks would have to be analyzed for any cue point to save... Or at least that's how we think it works.
REDSELECTER 4:39 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:

Quote:
- absolute silence / zero padding at the start of the audio?

There is silence before the first bit of sound, however working tracks do as well. SpinTools seems to be short 0.4 seconds sometimes, so far it looks like tracks with the issue have less silence padded at the beginning, though the difference in extra silence does not make up for the cue point difference.


Maybe there's a minimum silence time enforced, so if a track only has 0.1s of zero padding (or whatever the metric is for silence) Serato introduces 0.3s more. For tracks over this length it doesn't mess with them?

Is it every cue point in the track?

Have you tried taking an unanalysed copy of the same track and repeating the analysis and cue point setting to see if you get the same result?
SpinTools 4:44 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:

Maybe there's a minimum silence time enforced, so if a track only has 0.1s of zero padding (or whatever the metric is for silence) Serato introduces 0.3s more. For tracks over this length it doesn't mess with them?

This is our thought as well, or maybe some offset they might apply to cue points for the beat grid, etc. Haven't found a pattern yet, but the next step is to edit the working files and slowly trim silence.

Quote:

Is it every cue point in the track?

If the first cue point is off then every cue point is off the exact same amount.

Quote:

Have you tried taking an unanalysed copy of the same track and repeating the analysis and cue point setting to see if you get the same result?

Not yet. This would be something to consider testing soon. At first we thought it was a different in Serato DJ versions, but this doesn't seem to be the case (yet).
REDSELECTER 4:49 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe there's a minimum silence time enforced, so if a track only has 0.1s of zero padding (or whatever the metric is for silence) Serato introduces 0.3s more. For tracks over this length it doesn't mess with them?

This is our thought as well, or maybe some offset they might apply to cue points for the beat grid, etc. Haven't found a pattern yet, but the next step is to edit the working files and slowly trim silence.

I'm going wager on this, and also that it is not the beat grid (you could test by doing the same file in pre-beat-grid Scratch Live and seeing what happens).
SpinTools 5:44 AM - 1 February, 2017
Quote:
I'm going wager on this, and also that it is not the beat grid (you could test by doing the same file in pre-beat-grid Scratch Live and seeing what happens).


It might be something with the silence. Created three tracks with different beginnings:
1) No silence
2) Not Modified.
3) 5 seconds of silence.

All 3 tracks had no cue points, I added 2 cue points on each file (on first beat, 7/8th of a bar).
1) cue point was off by a 0.3-0.4 seconds.
2) cue point was in the correct place.
3) cue point was off by a 0.3-0.4 seconds.


Blah.
Papa Midnight 7:17 PM - 1 February, 2017
If you haven't already gone through this (if we are talking about MP3s here), does their encoding differ in any way - i.e.: LAME 3.8, 3.98 vs 3.99?

Likewise, for MP3s, there is a slight padding added to the beginning and end of each file by the very nature of the MP3 "standard". Is this consistent across your test files?
SpinTools 5:44 AM - 2 February, 2017
Quote:
If you haven't already gone through this (if we are talking about MP3s here), does their encoding differ in any way - i.e.: LAME 3.8, 3.98 vs 3.99?

Likewise, for MP3s, there is a slight padding added to the beginning and end of each file by the very nature of the MP3 "standard". Is this consistent across your test files?


So we tried taking a file that was working, re-encoded the track with LAME, imported into Serato and placed a cue point on the first beat. The tracks are the exact same length, the only difference is the time Serato saved a cue point.


Here's some data.

WORKING TRACK:
Cue 1: 0.135 seconds
Offset: 000000320000.000000

BROKEN TRACK:
Cue 1: 0.196 seconds
Offset: 000000208706.101190

The difference in cue points is 0.061 seconds.

Any idea what this offset is? All working tracks are " 320000...", broken tracks are some obscure number.
REDSELECTER 5:11 PM - 2 February, 2017
a couple more random thoughts:

what happens w/ AIFF files?

could the offset indicate the offset from the nearest beat marker?
SpinTools 5:00 AM - 7 February, 2017
Turns out the issue is with the audio engine. Some encoders leave a "primer", FFMPEG removes this primer however some audio engines seem to ignore it (*cough cough*).

To get an idea of a primer, take a read from apple's spec: developer.apple.com

Looks like this is going to be a difficult issue to resolve.
nik39 8:35 AM - 7 February, 2017
But they're talking about AAC and I assume mp4, right?
SpinTools 11:47 AM - 7 February, 2017
Quote:
But they're talking about AAC and I assume mp4, right?


Correct, LAME does it for MP3 as well. Haven't explored other options yet.
One Louder 2:50 PM - 7 February, 2017
CD's. Having the facility to use Spin Tools to burn CD's would be really neat. It's the only use I have for iTunes now so it'd be great if I could ditch it altogether.
Marv Incredible 4:15 PM - 7 February, 2017
Nah, IMO that'd be going too far and in the wrong direction. All you would need is the ability to spit out a cue file from within SpinTools which can be read by any decent CD burning software.
DJ Stoyvo 7:25 PM - 7 February, 2017
CDs... I dont think I have any devices to burn a CD with... Might be something to do down the line, but unfortunately that's going to be a "we might get to it" request.

I found this for any techies who are interested: lame.sourceforge.net
One Louder 2:48 PM - 12 February, 2017
Quote:
Nah, IMO that'd be going too far and in the wrong direction. All you would need is the ability to spit out a cue file from within SpinTools which can be read by any decent CD burning software.


Quote:
CDs... I dont think I have any devices to burn a CD with... Might be something to do down the line, but unfortunately that's going to be a "we might get to it" request.

I found this for any techies who are interested: lame.sourceforge.net


Good feedback.
dj_spark 9:11 PM - 13 February, 2017
Quote:
Cant wait since that iTunes have change i don't use it to create my play list anymore this seem like something ill use it will help as i use both Traktor & Serato to DJ

You should use an older version. I'm on something like 10.6 and it still work.
ParisCreative 4:17 PM - 23 February, 2017
You know there are some of us that would love even the most simple and basic function of identifying dupes. I certainly don't mind being an early alpha even for that most basic functionality. :)
Marv Incredible 10:26 PM - 23 February, 2017
And some of us are desperately wanting to be able to create playlist files from our crates.
Dj Ricky Redz 3:35 AM - 24 February, 2017
just joining the convo here and didn't have the time to read all the comments (currently working on my library).
2 features I really want to see would be..

1.) Ability to sync files between folders, iTunes, and different dj apps.
I use iTunes mainly because I can view my library how its organized in my dj app, in my audio editing apps as well.

2.) File converter, would be good to have this so I can just select a wav (or other format) to convert to mp3 right in the app!
SpinTools 3:46 AM - 24 February, 2017
Quote:
You know there are some of us that would love even the most simple and basic function of identifying dupes. I certainly don't mind being an early alpha even for that most basic functionality. :)

Quote:
And some of us are desperately wanting to be able to create playlist files from our crates.


Working on it! The biggest hurdle so far are some things we never knew about until recently... for example the audio issues we had (a few posts up). Basically, when a track is encoded and compressed with an encoder such as LAME, FFMPEG will strip out the padding (Metadata) at the beginning of the track. This is a huge issue because Serato does not recognize this padding and perceives it as silence. When we extract cue points and loops from Serato to SpinTools, these markers will be slightly off by 0.1-0.5 seconds.

We need this information to function correctly as users will choose the duplicate to keep based on the cue points and loops they have set already. It's difficult to release one feature without the other. So with that being said...

Quote:
just joining the convo here and didn't have the time to read all the comments (currently working on my library).
2 features I really want to see would be..

[redacted]

2.) File converter, would be good to have this so I can just select a wav (or other format) to convert to mp3 right in the app!

We will be building an audio decoder into SpinTools. The ability to convert files to other types may not be that difficult. Can't promise this at the moment but it's something we can throw on the list seeing how the main functionality of decoding tracks will already be built.
ParisCreative 1:52 PM - 1 May, 2017
It's been a minute so I am sure this community would love to hear any updates/progress. :)
SpinTools 2:01 PM - 1 May, 2017
Quote:
It's been a minute so I am sure this community would love to hear any updates/progress. :)


Agreed... We'll try for a blog post out this week/weekend. So many moving parts at the moment, mostly performance and underlying framework changes.

We have a ton of ideas to make SpinTools the best we could offer, part of this is getting some important data related features right the first time. For example, we have spent the past 2 months building a way to track changes made to your libraries. Doing this we can later implement features such as comparing crates before and after (such as showing changes before you save to the Serato Database), undoing changes (such as moving a song to the wrong crate), etc.

Along with the way we handle data, we started working with play history to start building out statistics.

The team is head down in code, we'll draw a line soon. We'll open up a community message board and bug/issue tracker in June. Hopefully that'll help us keep track of conversations across all the social networks.
ParisCreative 2:02 PM - 1 May, 2017
Awesome! I really can't wait to be an early tester. :)
deejdave 9:36 PM - 1 May, 2017
How did the public demo go on Feb 9th?
SpinTools 9:51 PM - 1 May, 2017
Quote:
How did the public demo go on Feb 9th?


We demonstrated it at the CDJ Show in Toronto on March 11th and 12th, the demo went off pretty well. Only crashed once... Which in developer terms is pretty good.

The primary functionality we demoed off basic library management tasks and the Trends integration with DJ City and DMS. The response was mostly positive... Most of the disappointment was from hearing "it's not ready yet" or "when will it work with _____”
Papa Midnight 11:08 PM - 1 May, 2017
Quote:
Only crashed once... Which in developer terms is pretty good.

"That's not a bug, that's a feature!"

Quote:
We have a ton of ideas to make SpinTools the best we could offer, part of this is getting some important data related features right the first time. For example, we have spent the past 2 months building a way to track changes made to your libraries. Doing this we can later implement features such as comparing crates before and after (such as showing changes before you save to the Serato Database), undoing changes (such as moving a song to the wrong crate), etc.


How did you guys make out in terms of hunting down that problem with regards to cue positioning?
SpinTools 11:15 PM - 1 May, 2017
Quote:

How did you guys make out in terms of hunting down that problem with regards to cue positioning?


We're using another audio library. Ffmpeg doesn't work well with LAME encoding, so we moved to another audio processor.
Culprit 4:06 AM - 2 May, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
How did you guys make out in terms of hunting down that problem with regards to cue positioning?


We're using another audio library. Ffmpeg doesn't work well with LAME encoding, so we moved to another audio processor.


That's crazy, ffmpeg doesn't work well with lame? Thought those two went together like peanut butter and jelly
SpinTools 4:13 AM - 2 May, 2017
Quote:

That's crazy, ffmpeg doesn't work well with lame? Thought those two went together like peanut butter and jelly


Lame stores some information at the beginning of the track, Serato sees it as silence but Lame is stripping it out, so depends on how you see this as broken.

Ffmpeg not reading audio the way audacity or a professional audio application would... So it's broken in the sense that silence is stripped at the beginning of any LAME encoded audio file, but it can also be seen that it's working correctly and professional audio applications are all wrong... Where do you side?

A bit of investigating shows that Google's Chromium team asked ffmpeg to strip the silence by default, but we're not sure what kind of influence they have on ffmpeg. We did not find a way to stop the audio from being stripped with ffmpeg, so we switched and started building our own interface between the new library and our app.
SpinTools 4:14 AM - 2 May, 2017
Err... Correction:
Lame stores some information at the beginning of the track, Serato sees it as silence but FFMPEG is stripping it out, so depends on how you see this as broken.
nik39 12:01 PM - 2 May, 2017
Quote:
Ffmpeg not reading audio the way audacity or a professional audio application would... So it's broken in the sense that silence is stripped at the beginning of any LAME encoded audio file, but it can also be seen that it's working correctly and professional audio applications are all wrong... Where do you side?

:(

Quote:
A bit of investigating shows that Google's Chromium team asked ffmpeg to strip the silence by default, but we're not sure what kind of influence they have on ffmpeg. We did not find a way to stop the audio from being stripped with ffmpeg, so we switched and started building our own interface between the new library and our app.

Couldn't you recompile ffmpeg without the audio stripping?
Culprit 6:12 PM - 2 May, 2017
or use an older version of ffmpeg. I think google is a major donor of ffmpeg since they support alot of open source projects.

That would make some sense man, because some mp3's I get from reliable sources do have some silence in the beginning, and some dont.

When we ganna switch from that ol mp3 to m4a/mp4 audio files? Never? forever in the 90's? : /
SpinTools 8:56 PM - 2 May, 2017
[quote
Couldn't you recompile ffmpeg without the audio stripping?

We could, didn't spend any more time looking into it though. If ffmpeg can be pressured into making these changes that break consistency across audio applications, we want nothing to do with them. Though it is becoming standard, there are still equally as great options that don't require us to have special builds made.

If in the future we believe this will be an issue, we will look at our options and possibly revisit ffmpeg.
SpinTools 8:57 PM - 2 May, 2017
Really wish there was a 5 minute edit time for posts, dang.
Papa Midnight 10:18 PM - 2 May, 2017
Quote:
That would make some sense man, because some mp3's I get from reliable sources do have some silence in the beginning, and some dont.


To be honest, this is why LAME is my preference for encoding MP3s.

Quote:
When we ganna switch from that ol mp3 to m4a/mp4 audio files? Never? forever in the 90's? : /


Ubiquity. Simply stated, for the longest time, MP3 was just supported in more places than was.

As for now, with so many formats up in the air - especially for lossless media, and with iTunes no longer being the only kid on the block for music distribution, I imagine that people are just sticking with what they know.

Personally, I'd prefer for the industry as a whole to go lossless and distribute in FLAC, but that's just me.

Quote:
Really wish there was a 5 minute edit time for posts, dang.

Don't we all :|
nik39 10:15 AM - 4 May, 2017
Quote:
That would make some sense man, because some mp3's I get from reliable sources do have some silence in the beginning, and some dont.

I guess the silence we're speaking of here is very short. It has nothing to do with general (longer) silence at the beginning of a recording.

Correct?
SpinTools 10:23 AM - 4 May, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
That would make some sense man, because some mp3's I get from reliable sources do have some silence in the beginning, and some dont.

I guess the silence we're speaking of here is very short. It has nothing to do with general (longer) silence at the beginning of a recording.

Correct?


The silence varies between 1-4 seconds.
nik39 12:59 PM - 5 May, 2017
Oh wow. I thought we're talking about single frame length silence.
nik39 12:59 PM - 5 May, 2017
(And thanks for the correction!)
DJNemesis831 6:39 PM - 17 May, 2017
One issue I don't can be correct is, some of my BPMs are completly off and haven't found a program to correct them. I don't mean by double or half. I mean 130 reading off as 96 or 98 kinda off. Will there be an option to fix that kind of issue?
SpinTools 2:29 AM - 19 May, 2017
Quote:
One issue I don't can be correct is, some of my BPMs are completly off and haven't found a program to correct them. I don't mean by double or half. I mean 130 reading off as 96 or 98 kinda off. Will there be an option to fix that kind of issue?


Unfortunately not... It's not in our roadmap to offer BPM detection yet, we might decide to do this in the future. There are many tools out there that do BPM detection, we feel that feature is not needed as much as our other planned features at this time.
Dj_Nix 12:56 PM - 19 May, 2017
Quote:
One issue I don't can be correct is, some of my BPMs are completly off and haven't found a program to correct them. I don't mean by double or half. I mean 130 reading off as 96 or 98 kinda off. Will there be an option to fix that kind of issue?

Maybe your range is not set correctly. Usually it does a good job detecting the BPM if you give good input.
DJNemesis831 4:06 PM - 2 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
One issue I don't can be correct is, some of my BPMs are completly off and haven't found a program to correct them. I don't mean by double or half. I mean 130 reading off as 96 or 98 kinda off. Will there be an option to fix that kind of issue?

Maybe your range is not set correctly. Usually it does a good job detecting the BPM if you give good input.


The issue is that I do various genres which have BPM variations from 55 to 170 at times. The double up is not the issue, it's when, for example, at track that I know is supposed to be 123 kicks in at 98. I have yet to find a solution to this issue.
ParisCreative 4:13 PM - 2 June, 2017
Sometimes automation will harm you in that case DJNemesis831. Every now and then you have to do a manual beat count.
Papa Midnight 5:42 PM - 2 June, 2017
Quote:
Sometimes automation will harm you in that case DJNemesis831. Every now and then you have to do a manual beat count.


Truth. I have no shortage of tracks that I've had to manually grid - especially stuff from the Funk and Disco eras.
Dj Wunder 5:41 AM - 3 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
find duplicates are our first priority.

... And please 'merge' those files, as in merging the meta data of the 'master track' with those of the copies, and of course replacing those files references inside your library and crate, including history with the reference master's reference.
Does that make sense?

:))


hell yes.


Quote:
That would be truly ideal. Here is a scenario that is pretty common for me. I am re-ripping music as FLAC as I have the time, but I have meta data from original files that I would love to sync. So what would be cool is not only compare files and identify the best quality one, but also sync the meta over to the new file if I wish.


Exactly


Quote:
I will outline our priorities:

4) Find & Replace - Also useful, though we don't expect it to be used by everyone.


I would be one of those who find that useful
REDSELECTER 12:45 PM - 8 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
find duplicates are our first priority.

... And please 'merge' those files, as in merging the meta data of the 'master track' with those of the copies, and of course replacing those files references inside your library and crate, including history with the reference master's reference.
Does that make sense?

:))


hell yes.


Quote:
That would be truly ideal. Here is a scenario that is pretty common for me. I am re-ripping music as FLAC as I have the time, but I have meta data from original files that I would love to sync. So what would be cool is not only compare files and identify the best quality one, but also sync the meta over to the new file if I wish.


Exactly


Quote:
I will outline our priorities:

4) Find & Replace - Also useful, though we don't expect it to be used by everyone.


I would be one of those who find that useful


I would also find this very useful (much more so than "Trends" from DJ City...)

Is SpinTools actually coming out... ever?
ParisCreative 12:48 PM - 8 June, 2017
I have to stress that development takes time, sometimes more than we all want. :)
REDSELECTER 12:51 PM - 8 June, 2017
Quote:
I have to stress that development takes time, sometimes more than we all want. :)


I'm an electrical and software engineer and I have no idea what their nine to five is, so not judging, but I see feature creep everytime I read about things like trends...

launch a core product quickly, add the fluff later
ParisCreative 1:04 PM - 8 June, 2017
That is always a danger of any product. I am working with a small team to develop what I hope is the next generation of wedding planning tools (eCUEity) and there are so many variables just getting things moving in the right direction, trying to figure out the best things to launch with, etc.
DJ Guayo 1:38 PM - 8 June, 2017
Quote:
That is always a danger of any product. I am working with a small team to develop what I hope is the next generation of wedding planning tools (eCUEity) and there are so many variables just getting things moving in the right direction, trying to figure out the best things to launch with, etc.


Establish your minimum viable product (MVP) and stick to it. otherwise it will never get off the ground.
ParisCreative 1:40 PM - 8 June, 2017
Indeed.
REDSELECTER 2:26 PM - 8 June, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
That is always a danger of any product. I am working with a small team to develop what I hope is the next generation of wedding planning tools (eCUEity) and there are so many variables just getting things moving in the right direction, trying to figure out the best things to launch with, etc.


Establish your minimum viable product (MVP) and stick to it. otherwise it will never get off the ground.


THIS
REDSELECTER 9:46 PM - 26 June, 2017
one year next week
SpinTools 5:24 AM - 28 June, 2017
Well now, this is embarrassing. Didn't get a single email about a reply on the forum... We also didn't come check until just now.

Anyways, just so folks have an idea, our devs are working on this project outside of their 9-5 job, plus we're all DJs - you can probably imagine how busy we already are. We bit off more than we'd like to chew, but that doesn't mean the project has stopped by any means.

So many unknowns cause slow-downs, such as half of June where we had to fight to keep the domain SpinTools.io for silly reasons. Or items such as an issue tracker to keep track of all the items the developers find, fix, test, claim "fixed", only to be broken by a change again. It's frustrating, it's slow, but we're doing it right - no excuses.

Project will be off the ground, eventually... Though we're certain it will be this year.
ParisCreative 11:18 AM - 28 June, 2017
Thanks for the update. As a business owner and trying to get a platform launched I totally understand your pain points.
DJ Dub (DC's Own) 9:00 PM - 28 June, 2017
Thank you for the update!
Papa Midnight 10:45 PM - 28 June, 2017
Quote:
Or items such as an issue tracker to keep track of all the items the developers find, fix, test, claim "fixed", only to be broken by a change again.


Nothing like a good ol' regression.

Quote:
Anyways, just so folks have an idea, our devs are working on this project outside of their 9-5 job, plus we're all DJs - you can probably imagine how busy we already are. We bit off more than we'd like to chew, but that doesn't mean the project has stopped by any means.


At least you guys have checked in. Thanks for the update!
Dj Ricky Redz 1:49 PM - 29 June, 2017
thanks for the update!!!

And now you guys have to factor in the denon dj prime app also... just don't dive up!
SpinTools 1:52 PM - 29 June, 2017
Prime or Engine?
Dj Ricky Redz 2:03 PM - 29 June, 2017
Well Prime, as they said it would work with their controllers too down the line and sc5000 seems to be taking off!
ParisCreative 4:58 PM - 29 June, 2017
Well they don't have to factor in anything. Again don't let scope creep hobble the whole of the product.
Papa Midnight 11:23 PM - 29 June, 2017
Quote:
Well they don't have to factor in anything. Again don't let scope creep hobble the whole of the product.


Indeed. Feature creep is a dangerous thing. Stick to the core product first.
ParisCreative 10:52 PM - 24 September, 2017
Checking in to see how things are progressing. Trust me I know the pain of this all. I am now literally into my third re-build of my event planning application since my first two developers just did not get things right at all. Hopefully three times' a charm.
SpinTools 10:14 AM - 25 September, 2017
Best of luck ParisCreative!

Things are progressing. Mostly UI performance issues (random lockups) and making use of play history to super charge some of the features and to help make critical decisions.

We've come up with some wicked ideas of how we can make use of the play history, but we're not going to spill the beans yet as it won't be available in the first release, but perhaps the second or third feature release versions
ParisCreative 10:37 AM - 25 September, 2017
SpinTools 11:36 AM - 25 September, 2017
Every ETA we give has been completely unreliable, which totally sucks. We know for a fact it will be this year, majority of the bugs found have been fixed already. The next biggest task will be reviewing how updates are distributed, ideally we'll want to distribute updates first to alpha testers, beta testers, then the general public if they choose to do so.
ParisCreative 11:37 AM - 25 September, 2017
SpinTools 11:40 AM - 25 September, 2017
Dj Ricky Redz 4:28 PM - 25 September, 2017
and here comes another OS to give you guys more work... sigh! I would love to be a part of the alpha though, my days of using iTunes for my music library are numbered!
SpinTools 2:04 PM - 26 September, 2017
Actually, OS updates aren't much of an issue for us anymore. We don't expect our compatibility to be a problem, but if it is, we just have to have an update out before Serato as users will be waiting for the All Clear from them first
DJ HOT FEVER 2:36 AM - 3 October, 2017
Still waiting for Spin Tools
SpinTools 3:39 AM - 11 October, 2017
Cross-Post from Facebook (but a better photo here): www.facebook.com

Sup fam? It's been a minute.
We're plugging away at SpinTools, we apologize for the delay.
We have a question for you! Everyone's input is important, so please share your thoughts.
We're working on our duplicate detection feature, and part of this feature gives you the option to exclude some special characters. For example (a bootleg or mashup):
SomeArtist + AnotherArtist - Song x Another Song
Sometimes you want to exclude the x or the + because it's written differently in other tracks.
What are some other characters you would like to exclude? Here's what we currently support.
Leave a comment

Image: spintools.io
msoultan 3:47 AM - 11 October, 2017
That duplicate search sounds kinda strange - if you're having to specify a character to exclude, that means you'd know what you're looking for... so at that point you might as well just use the search feature. Now, this is just off the top of my head - I haven't really had this issue so maybe it's more of an issue for others, but I don't think I've ever had to do something like this when searching for duplicates, and I tend to do weird data stuff like that...

On another, non-duplicate-related note:

One thing that would be extremely helpful (if it isn't already included) is the ability to find orphaned tracks, and create a crate with those tracks in it. This functionality is already included in Scratch Tools and it is VERY helpful to find tracks that never got sorted to their appropriate crates.

The other feature that would be really helpful would be a way to show what crates a track is in. Many times I'm scrolling through tracks and I want to get a feel for where I've been sorting them, so if I could somehow see a list of my crates and then when I move onto a track, the crates to which the song belongs would be highlighted.

thanks!
SpinTools 3:57 AM - 11 October, 2017
Quote:
That duplicate search sounds kinda strange - if you're having to specify a character to exclude, that means you'd know what you're looking for... so at that point you might as well just use the search feature. Now, this is just off the top of my head - I haven't really had this issue so maybe it's more of an issue for others, but I don't think I've ever had to do something like this when searching for duplicates, and I tend to do weird data stuff like that...

Mainly this is to help curb situations where a DJ is subscribed to two different pools, each with their own format of saying:
Neyo - When You're Mad
Ne-Yo - When Youre Mad

Realistically you would want to exclude everything in that list for the best chance at matching another duplicate, however we don't to assume and prefer to give the user control over how strict matches have to be.


Quote:
On another, non-duplicate-related note:

One thing that would be extremely helpful (if it isn't already included) is the ability to find orphaned tracks, and create a crate with those tracks in it. This functionality is already included in Scratch Tools and it is VERY helpful to find tracks that never got sorted to their appropriate crates.

There are plans to create crates from orphaned tracks, but we want to roll out something functional first, then add on the prioritized items after.

Quote:
The other feature that would be really helpful would be a way to show what crates a track is in. Many times I'm scrolling through tracks and I want to get a feel for where I've been sorting them, so if I could somehow see a list of my crates and then when I move onto a track, the crates to which the song belongs would be highlighted.
thanks!

So we originally had crates for each song listed within the track list view, but this was proving to be difficult for performance. We have the option within the app still, just disabled by default. We have plans to make that faster in the future... With that said, you can always right-click (macs two-finger click) and get the details of a track, to which it will show all the crates its in. The moving / highlighting idea is a great idea though.... Noted!
msoultan 4:17 AM - 11 October, 2017
Quote:
Mainly this is to help curb situations where a DJ is subscribed to two different pools, each with their own format of saying:
Neyo - When You're Mad
Ne-Yo - When Youre Mad

Realistically you would want to exclude everything in that list for the best chance at matching another duplicate, however we don't to assume and prefer to give the user control over how strict matches have to be.


Ok, that makes sense - hmmm.... this could be a lot of work, but instead of asking for characters, why not maintain a (opensource?) database of alternative spellings of artists. This way the program is smart enough to figure out that neyo is the same as ne-yo. Or, if there's a way where it asks the user if those are the same thing. Other common misspellings could probably also be coded in (i.e. youre/you're).

While I do appreciate giving power to the user, I'd have to be smart enough to know what alternative spellings I might see... you could also have ne yo, ne-yo, neyo... so you might just have it (internally) separate the artist from the track name, remove all special characters, and then attempt the search. You could then show similar results based on a likeness algorithm that you design, but I do think that expecting the user to be good enough to change search exclusions would be a bit confusing and more than anyone would really need - I think the software should be tuned to do it internally, and either have a method to learn, or you just take input from users when searches aren't bringing up enough tracks that share a likeness to others and update the search algorithm accordingly.

Quote:
There are plans to create crates from orphaned tracks, but we want to roll out something functional first, then add on the prioritized items after.


Just to be clear, this is to create one crate that contains all the orphaned tracks. This way any new tracks that you purchase get sorted into a crate and played instead of getting lost in the "all" crate.

Quote:
So we originally had crates for each song listed within the track list view, but this was proving to be difficult for performance. We have the option within the app still, just disabled by default. We have plans to make that faster in the future... With that said, you can always right-click (macs two-finger click) and get the details of a track, to which it will show all the crates its in. The moving / highlighting idea is a great idea though.... Noted!


I'd have to see what you're referring to, but I'm always happy to test and provide input on UI ideas. Off the top of my head, if you had a way to scan what tracks are members of what crates, then store the crate ID with the track, moving the cursor to a track would pull that list and highlight the crates with the matching ID. Yes, it would require and initial scan (which could take time), but after that I would imagine it should pretty quick on the display end. But I'm sure there are probably more technicalities that I haven't considered....
REDSELECTER 5:05 AM - 11 October, 2017
how about an MVP w/ a core basic feature set. you guys should really look into Lean Startup business methodology.
Dub D 4:41 AM - 30 November, 2017
Quote:
how about an MVP w/ a core basic feature set. you guys should really look into Lean Startup business methodology.


Gonna have to second this. Wanna see a quick infusion of cash to your effort? Release a basic management software for early backers. Charge 10, 15, 20 bucks even and offer us people on Serato the ability to do basic querying of the database with certain criteria. Main in that criteria is play count, date added, crate, and last date played.

Boom, you'll get tons of Pre orders, net some cash to fund the effort, and maybe one of you can start working full time on the project. Or if that isn't in the cards at least you'll have a lot of happy backers that will wait for your final release without as many reservations.
REDSELECTER 4:49 AM - 30 November, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
how about an MVP w/ a core basic feature set. you guys should really look into Lean Startup business methodology.


Gonna have to second this. Wanna see a quick infusion of cash to your effort? Release a basic management software for early backers. Charge 10, 15, 20 bucks even and offer us people on Serato the ability to do basic querying of the database with certain criteria. Main in that criteria is play count, date added, crate, and last date played.

Boom, you'll get tons of Pre orders, net some cash to fund the effort, and maybe one of you can start working full time on the project. Or if that isn't in the cards at least you'll have a lot of happy backers that will wait for your final release without as many reservations.


thank you very much for this.

I'd love to see this software released, but right now it is effectively vapourware and from my admittedly external perspective it looks like a lot of effort is being spent on features like "chart tracking" and stuff that is only of interest to a subset of DJs in certain genres.

at this stage i would pay for something that is just a solid library manager for super large libraries.

as a software engineer and an agile/scrum practitioner, all this mission creep is making me a sad panda...
SpinTools 4:56 AM - 30 November, 2017
^ We're gradually headed that direction.

If we had stayed focus on some core features, we'd be laughing. We started the project the same way you eat really good popcorn, just shoving it all in... To this point though, we have learnt a lot that would have lead to longer delays.

On the plus side, we have a really solid foundation. We essentially have 3 main points to accomplish:

1) Writing the Serato DB - We're currently reading, doing a ton of stuff with data, etc, just need to repeat the same steps we did with reading and put it into a format Serato will understand.

2) Context menus - We have lots of actions you can preform in any instance. Those need to basically be mapped to some existing logic.

3) License Verification - If we're going to have any shot at making this product worth while and to have the resource to keep building the product.

Scope creep was an issue, yes. There is some reasoning behind the feature of Trends. We want to help as many DJs as possible, make their life easier, but we also want to support our friendly DJ pools. It'll be a bonus if those pools wish to help us spread the word about the product, since it'll be a super easy way to stay up-to-date.

Majority of the statistics haven't been built in, but we do have items such as play count, average play time, last played, date added, etc
Dub D 5:00 AM - 30 November, 2017
Quote:
^ We're gradually headed that direction.

If we had stayed focus on some core features, we'd be laughing. We started the project the same way you eat really good popcorn, just shoving it all in... To this point though, we have learnt a lot that would have lead to longer delays.

On the plus side, we have a really solid foundation. We essentially have 3 main points to accomplish:

1) Writing the Serato DB - We're currently reading, doing a ton of stuff with data, etc, just need to repeat the same steps we did with reading and put it into a format Serato will understand.

2) Context menus - We have lots of actions you can preform in any instance. Those need to basically be mapped to some existing logic.

3) License Verification - If we're going to have any shot at making this product worth while and to have the resource to keep building the product.

Scope creep was an issue, yes. There is some reasoning behind the feature of Trends. We want to help as many DJs as possible, make their life easier, but we also want to support our friendly DJ pools. It'll be a bonus if those pools wish to help us spread the word about the product, since it'll be a super easy way to stay up-to-date.

Majority of the statistics haven't been built in, but we do have items such as play count, average play time, last played, date added, etc


That's good news, if you already have read access to the Serato database, then you could create the product I was talking about for early supporters. It would allow you to read the database and get the useful information for simple Library management of large databases. We could sort on many different criteria, and then manage our libraries via the file system.

I'm sure I speak for a lot of people here when I say that I could trim my library by more than 50% with very simple access to query the database via targeted criteria.

Again, no need to sacrifice your larger release, simply offer it to early pledges. That way, we feel we get something from backing you, and we also stay off your heels and don't Hound you as much about delivering on scheduled dates.
SpinTools 5:24 AM - 30 November, 2017
Quote:

Again, no need to sacrifice your larger release, simply offer it to early pledges. That way, we feel we get something from backing you, and we also stay off your heels and don't Hound you as much about delivering on scheduled dates.


This is partially the reason why we stopped providing updates on the app's development. We would spend a week just replying to questions, receiving feedback, etc. Decided it was time to fade away just enough to keep our heads down and stay focused.

We'll discuss internally to determine where we stand in terms of our current feature set, and look at what we can release. Hopefully we have a better update in the next few weeks.
Dub D 6:11 AM - 30 November, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Again, no need to sacrifice your larger release, simply offer it to early pledges. That way, we feel we get something from backing you, and we also stay off your heels and don't Hound you as much about delivering on scheduled dates.


This is partially the reason why we stopped providing updates on the app's development. We would spend a week just replying to questions, receiving feedback, etc. Decided it was time to fade away just enough to keep our heads down and stay focused.

We'll discuss internally to determine where we stand in terms of our current feature set, and look at what we can release. Hopefully we have a better update in the next few weeks.


Thank you for your candid response. I know I did exactly what you are talking about and what I brought light to, which is people hounding you about release dates. However, I think that a lot of folks are happy with the progress that has been made so far and communicated via your public statements. I can't speak to what is satisfactory to you and your fellow developers as far as an initial release, and I know that can be contentious. I have been so happy with the direction of the project and am encouraged by the larger vision, but am discouraged because a product hasn't been delivered. I understand not wanting to deliver a sub par product, but I think a lot of people in the community have lower expectations then the development team does currently. I think we would be more than happy with an initial release at reasonable pricing that could be followed up by updates with new features and an additional upgrade cost.
ParisCreative 8:38 PM - 5 January, 2018
I totally feel your pressure. I am in the midst of developing my event and business management tool for DJs and wedding pros, and I am completely tapped financially and it's taken me 2 years to get to even this point. Hoping that things are progressing at a good pace right now. :)
SpinTools 5:34 AM - 10 February, 2018
Update #4: spintools.io
dj_spark 7:43 AM - 10 February, 2018
Yes just received the newsletter, it's awesome that you are still working on this.
Even if I'm not into the beta, I will be glad to make a review of your product when it will be out (actually trying to build a YT channel).
More choice for the user (database converter part) will give different scales prices because actually between DJCU and Rekordbuddy, there is a gap to fill.
Papa Midnight 3:56 PM - 10 February, 2018
Quote:
Update #4: spintools.io

Nice!
DJ Quartz 11:08 PM - 10 February, 2018
Very interesting
DJ Dub (DC's Own) 5:20 PM - 12 February, 2018
Awesome
DJ Guayo 6:33 PM - 12 February, 2018
Any chance you also got a hold of Serato DJ Pro (2.0)? Will the library piece work there? I know the alpah/beta releases are typically shunned on for development purposes.
DJ Marv the Maverick 2:54 PM - 14 February, 2018
Tracking
SpinTools 1:33 PM - 15 February, 2018
Quote:
Any chance you also got a hold of Serato DJ Pro (2.0)? Will the library piece work there? I know the alpah/beta releases are typically shunned on for development purposes.


We don't expect much change to the library format with Serato DJ Pro :)
REDSELECTER 4:39 PM - 2 August, 2018
any updates? dead? vapourware? about to launch?
Papa Midnight 2:32 AM - 3 August, 2018
I was just talking to someone else about this tool. The website is still up, but the blog has been quiet since February 2018 (and the home page still shows that an expected "first release of SpinTools is estimated early 2017").

What's up guys?
SpinTools 12:12 PM - 3 August, 2018
We're still here :)

Since the last blog post, we've built in:

- Authentication so we don't have many users sharing their keys
- A release tool, so the app auto-updates - making sure you have our latest fixes without ever leaving the app (super handy in the Alpha tests)
- Built in features like a changelog after the app updates


Everything else has just been bug fixing and continued development of features. There are a few difficult tasks that are will work in progress:

- Crate Management, it has the ability to remember folders/directories on your machine to auto-update your crates right off of your drive... but we have issues around how sub-crates and parent crate logic works (If parent crate knows the folders of the sub-crates, etc)

- Syncing from platforms into your already managed library in SpinTools is a problem. Determining the differences between which platform and knowing what to keep and what to remove was also a difficult task. We're mostly there, but we don't have the UI to let users pick the right action.

- Third, we were having difficulty with an easy way to move cue points / loops between the DVS platforms (Rekord Box -> Serato), so there's also been some UX work there.


Trust us when I say our alpha testers have been keeping us busy. Previously we were dedicated to being transparent in our communications, and we are when we're asked, but the constant updates of "Not released yet, but come read!" have had a negative impact.

With this said, a new website is being built and the blog/homepage will be completely different. It will also connect your user account to the SpinTools app,
Culprit 4:31 PM - 3 August, 2018
we appreciate the update
REDSELECTER 4:43 PM - 3 August, 2018
good to know it is still alive!
SpinTools 4:55 PM - 3 August, 2018
We ain't going anywhere! We're at 2 years worth of development at this time... We aren't giving up now.

At the same time, I can understand why its assumed by some. We've heard every joke in the book about a release. The most famous one is: SpinTools released in 2043!
ParisCreative 12:33 PM - 3 October, 2018
While I understand the complexities of development (I personally am trying to raise funds for my wedding planning/business platform) I was hoping some early alpha or beta would be available to a trusted few people that have been commenting here. People that would understand that there can still be a lot of bugs, but contribute to the betterment of the application.

If this ever happens please count me in. As a developer, a business owner, I see the value in this app plus understand that literal back-breaking aspects of developing it.
Vagab0nd 1:08 AM - 4 October, 2018
Quote:
While I understand the complexities of development (I personally am trying to raise funds for my wedding planning/business platform) I was hoping some early alpha or beta would be available to a trusted few people that have been commenting here. People that would understand that there can still be a lot of bugs, but contribute to the betterment of the application.

If this ever happens please count me in. As a developer, a business owner, I see the value in this app plus understand that literal back-breaking aspects of developing it.



Good luck with the planning/business platform. Hard nut to crack! And for the SpinTool, too bad its two years and no beta. :(
SpinTools 1:20 AM - 4 October, 2018
Quote:
And for the SpinTool, too bad its two years and no beta. :(


We agree! But we have had 17 alpha releases :)
ParisCreative 7:59 PM - 4 October, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
While I understand the complexities of development (I personally am trying to raise funds for my wedding planning/business platform) I was hoping some early alpha or beta would be available to a trusted few people that have been commenting here. People that would understand that there can still be a lot of bugs, but contribute to the betterment of the application.

If this ever happens please count me in. As a developer, a business owner, I see the value in this app plus understand that literal back-breaking aspects of developing it.



Good luck with the planning/business platform. Hard nut to crack! And for the SpinTool, too bad its two years and no beta. :(


To be honest the concepts and tech are simple. I just ran out of money for my developers. So if you know anyone looking to invest. My first round is seeking $100k with the first $25k being critical releasing the 'essentials' version. :)
Papa Midnight 11:31 PM - 15 January, 2019
Last update report was February 9, 2018.

What's up, guys? How's the progress going?
cu7ups 11:36 PM - 15 January, 2019
Is there a beta (or whatever you want to tag the dev version) available for this?

I'd be interested in testing it out.
cotdagoo 4:58 PM - 16 January, 2019
Noticed this on their instagram comments

Quote:

spintoolsapp
@thomask.official we currently have a fair amount of Alpha testers. At this point we'd prefer to finally getting the beta released in Q1 of 2019


So there's hope!
SpinTools 1:47 AM - 17 January, 2019
Quote:
So there's hope!


;)

First an intro to our new website, and a survey to source the best candidates, followed by a closed message board to keep reported issues/feedback/general conversation moving.

Current the Alpha that's available to an even smaller exclusive group is on version 19 - currently only supporting Serato and a ton of cool data about your library.

January's goals:
- wrap up lose ends with the Crate Management tools (auto import folders, Abandoned tracks, etc).
- Drag n Drop quirks

February has goals:
- Expanding tag reading/writing from MP3 to FLAC, WAV, OGG, ACC
- Complete New Website

March:
- Rekordbox Importing
- Traktor Importing
- Beta Release?
REDSELECTER 1:53 AM - 17 January, 2019
Quote:
Quote:
So there's hope!


;)

First an intro to our new website, and a survey to source the best candidates, followed by a closed message board to keep reported issues/feedback/general conversation moving.

Current the Alpha that's available to an even smaller exclusive group is on version 19 - currently only supporting Serato and a ton of cool data about your library.

January's goals:
- wrap up lose ends with the Crate Management tools (auto import folders, Abandoned tracks, etc).
- Drag n Drop quirks

February has goals:
- Expanding tag reading/writing from MP3 to FLAC, WAV, OGG, ACC
- Complete New Website

March:
- Rekordbox Importing
- Traktor Importing
- Beta Release?


No ALAC?
SpinTools 1:55 AM - 17 January, 2019
Quote:
No ALAC?



Sorry, you're right, a few formats missed. Revised list:
- Expanding tag reading/writing from MP3 to FLAC, WAV, OGG, AAC, AIF, ALAC, M4A. MP4 (without video support - to be built later)
REDSELECTER 2:11 AM - 17 January, 2019
Quote:
Quote:
No ALAC?



Sorry, you're right, a few formats missed. Revised list:
- Expanding tag reading/writing from MP3 to FLAC, WAV, OGG, AAC, AIF, ALAC, M4A. MP4 (without video support - to be built later)


oh very good thanks