i can see this one

''6.) Autogain and general gain structure does not work properly. SDJ will not remember gains that are manually set, autogain is all over the place on levels, default autogain is way too loud, master volume does not globally effect gains like in SSL, levels set in SSL do not translate to SDJ, and new versions of SDJ sometimes change the gain levels thus needing re-analyzation. For someone like me who makes all of their MP3s read-only on the file system after running thru MIK, Platinum Notes (optionally), setting cues, adjusting grids, and setting gain levels manually, just "re-analyzing everything" doesn't work out. Doing this read-only trick keeps from things getting over-written. I can dig up relevant threads on this if you would like.''

A more interesting discussion is why are we still not using SSL,

and the answer is licensing,

SDJ was poorly developed from day one probably by a new development team that were not involved in the original version that's why it's such a fuck up, and dvs wasn't part of the original plan but an afterthought as SDJ was primarly developed to support controllers and get around licensing with SSL that ment they had to give Rane a cut too,

but with $DJ serato would own everything, and also take parts out like effects / dvs / and charge extra for it, it was going to happen eventually as the funds from selling just the hardware alone was probably drying up,

Well what ever sound engine or algorithm they were using with Scratch Live {Rane} is what all the Djs love about Serato to begin with. They should of retained that when they switched over to Serato DJ. I kinda feel someone is full aware of this and not doing anything about it. It's like brother and sister is fighting again (i.e. why are they still having problems up this day with the rane drivers with Serato DJ, but yet you could still use Scratch Live with no Problems) smh

I'm still using SSL 2.5 because of the classic unbeatable GUI design.

Just upgraded to Windows 10, 64-bit and it works perfectly with SL1.

The GUI of SDJ is horrible and looks like a 0.2 alpha version. It doesn't look cool and I don't want to present this user interface the people (guests) behind me.

SDJ:
- Black + gray colored background of the library to avoid readability (no separating lines)
- Unreadable font (not the same as in SSL and still no option to choose our own font)
- Single player design: Waveform overview not over the "big" waveform.
- Single player design: Artist/Title names - how I'm missing the big yellow text ...

If SDJ would look like SSL I would buy a SL4 because I prefer analog mixer (Xone-92) at home and I'm safe when I go out and can play everywhere.

One thing I hate on Serato is that I've bought a netbook (1024x600) from HP to sort out and tag all the tracks (I'm ripping many CDs because I dj only 70s'-90s anymore) in the office beside my main job - and from one day to the other a higher minimum screen solution was required. However - I have to use 2.5 because of the tagging errors on the older versions and now I have the bigger dj laptop with me.

The other thing I hate on Serato are the horrible discussions about options in the settings. When it needs years and hundreds of discussions to support 1 or 2 decimals for the BPM value ... and then they add an option but only for the deck and not for the library. And the reply is they want to avoid options .. sorry guys - please take a look on VirtualDJ / settings / options how much options they support to make EVERYONE happy.

And I'm still wondering that Serato has never added more columns (tags) into SSL and still does not with SDJ ...

Of course - software development costs money (I'm developer at a big bank) and I have deifinitely NO problem to pay for the software + the updates - but ... (read above)

Sorry but I can't anymore and gave up and live my life with the unbeatable classic design of SSL 2.5 - and this is post 2 of 2 after a very long time.

seriously. seriously?

I personally am still using SSL. There's things that don't work right in SDJ however in Scratchlive they do. I feel bad for those running old systems and can't even run SDJ. It's like you need a new computer just to use it and when you do it's still buggy...✌🏻️

The only thing that I care for is the Camelot key feature in SDJ👍🏻

nothing stopping you from scanning them in SDJ then using the results in SSL

Why i still use SSL:
- GUI design for SSL is alot better, classy look, font is better, column size, green played tracks.

- Tempo Display looks better. (they removed it in SDJ 1.8, ironically 1.8 is most stable version of SDJ for me so i have to live without it when using SDJ)

- I have older hardware 2.4 GHZ Core2Duo that runs SSL like a champ, don't have cash to buy another laptop now. Would love to though.

- When i highlight multiple tracks i can click and hold for as long as i want, then i can continue holding the mouse down while dragging to my destination. In SDJ you have to start dragging immediately after clicking and holding, because SDJ while deselect all the songs you highlighted and only hold/drag the one you clicked on. ANNNNNOYING

- Similar issue, When you highlight multiple songs to edit the ID3 field, its a breeze with SSL, just double click the field and once you edit and press enter it ask if you want to change it for multiple items, SDJ when i highlight then double click it only edits that one i clicked one. (this one i think its only 1.8 that does that could be wrong)

- The SP-6 look soooo much better, dang i can remove all that i want and only show name of the sample that is loaded, that works for me, i have 13" Macbook so when i dj on SSL i always have the SP6 panel showing, but it barely takes up screen space. SDJ only have two modes and they are both ugly. (Another gui issue)

- I have never DJ on SDJ using DVS before, never in my life, but when i see other youtube videos i notice "ABS REL INT" is a drop down box, wtf, sometimes i want to quickly click it, the keyboard shortcut not reliable for me, its hard to zone in on my laptop keyboard sometimes trying to press F6 or F7 for deck two, trying by best not to accidentally click F5. to switch it to ABS which will bring the song waaaaaay offf track. So in SSL i strictly switch between REL and INT using my mouse, i have no problem with that. Deck 1 is okay cause its easy to press F2 or F3 but deck two, problem. Having the individual button right there on screen is better. (another gui isse)


Serato DJ only have 1 feature i wish was in SSL. When you Command + F to search all after you find the track if you click the "x" to exit the Search field, in SDJ it will automatically bring you back to the crate you last played from along with highlighting the last song you played. Good feature cause if you were deep in your crate tree then you would have to scroll forever to get back to that crate, kinda annoying when you in the fire segment trying to go quickly. If SSL had that feature then i probably would never invest (buy SDJ only gear) right now.


I have SDJ with some of the new bells and whistles, Pitch n Time, & recently purchased Flip, they are nice features yea but don't get the same feel. All versions of SDJ give my poor little Core2Duo hell! USB dropout light and high CPU usage, 1.8 is only stable one for me so they seem to be heading in the right direction. Ironically, 1.8 have dropped support for Core2Duo, and it seem like the only one that work good for me :/

Oh next thing, in SDJ DVS can you use the Reverse Input function like in SSL, Djing with 1 turntable?

No there is because they don't display as Camelot in SSL and there's no way to edit this cause Scratchlive doesn't have a key feature to choose Camelot as key type👎🏻

scan in SDJ classic key is added,

batch edit them to the camelot system,

www.harmonic-mixing.com

so in in ssl or sdj group by key select all the revelant batch i.e highlight all A minor and edit the key to 1A, and so on so this will take 24 batches to complete,


also how long have you been using serato?

dont even bother sparky.

I laughed.

I laughed and snorted.

Since 07' and the SL1 I now have a SL3

sarcasm isn't your strong point

uso porque serato video + serato dj usa muita memoria e trava.

SL funciona perfeito.

use because serato video + serato dj uses too much memory and crashes.

SL works perfect.

LOL...stop.

so here's my problem...I'm switching to SDJ from SSL and just scanned all of my library with "set key" on in SDJ. Note- I was using mixed in key with SSL before. So, SDJ tagged all files with Camelot keys, but when I go back into SSL now, it's not showing Camelot, it's showing classical key. Now why would it do this if SDJ was camelot? ..Ive tried rescanning ID3 tags and analyze files on some tracks in SSL, but no change. I want SSL to show Camelot like it did before I had scanned set key with SDJ... Ideas?

_victamone,

Serato DJ ONLY writes the Classical key to the file (not the Camelot).
If its set to display Camelot in SDJ, its translating it from the classical key tag to Camelot in real time.

Regards,

Oh wow that's why SSL is showing all classical key now... Sigh

Also SSL doesn't support key shifting, either.

Despite some bugs I still think SDJ is the best DJ software in existence, especially now that the feature set has finally started to catch up with Traktor & Virtual DJ. Only thing I miss from VDJ that it would automatically play random visualizations when mixing non-video files. Not a fan of the black screen in Serato Video. VDJ's scripted MIDI mapping is a LOT more powerful too.

The only other issue I've run into is newly created crates deleting themselves when I close SDJ, even after I turned UAC off (which is something I *really* wish I didn't have to do). I have to remake the same crates multiple times before they'll finally stick. It's annoying, but not so much that I'd consider downgrading to SSL or going back to VDJ.

It does play random clips for audio tracks.......does no one read the manuals anymore??

Create a crate named "Media..." (and yes include the 3 dots).

Next throw all your visuals in that crate.

Now there's an option to when you open the video tab up, look on the left side of the video crossfader. You'll also see you can choose to have random transitions as well.

I do agree VDJ's script is just stupid powerful if you know how to use.

As for crates disappearing I haven't ran into that either on my mac or PC.

Maybe Techniq should try a 'firmware update' for that?

Good one asshole😂

Install keyfinder www.ibrahimshaath.co.uk .... go to preferences and fill in the Camelot keys (if you prefer), etc.

Comparsion with other packages: ibrahimshaath.co.uk

I use SSL over Serato DJ for one simple reason….STABILITY!!! I earn a living off of djing so I cannot afford to deal with audio drop outs, hangs, freezes or Serato DJ not being able to read my large music /video library. The features in Serato DJ are nice BUT they come at the price of sacrificing overall software stability. I refuse to risk my professional reputation for a few features that I may not even use. That being said, I have beta tested Serato DJ in the past and will continue to do so in the future. I have faith that Serato DJ will in time become the best STABLE dj program available! I want to enjoy using Serato DJ as much as I STILL enjoy using SSL!!!

Chino,

Hows 1.8.1 working for you?

MP

I hate everything about SDJ...
I used SSL for 8 years w/o any issues.
Now I bought myself a new Macbook Pro with El Capitan and an Denon DS1 to use SDJ and wasn't able to play even ONE full DJ Set...
I still have to bring my crappy old Air with SL1. But that bastard at leasts works properly.

I feel like a fucking beta tester for Serato and Denon.
"Can you try XY?", "What If you try XY"?
You took my money and told me, that it is supported and yet I still have to waiste my time with that shit.
Just keep supporting SSL with the newest OSs and I will never ever ever ever start using SDJ.

i messed around with ssl yesterday. it does sound better and the wavforms arent jerky. everything just feels a little tighter.

i also notice that the wav forms are longer.

the pitch shift is the only real issue, of course thats only if you pitch way up.

oh well, sdj is whats around, its avg at least.

What happened in particular? With Serato DJ 1.8.1 you shouldn't be having issues with a new Macbook Pro and the Denon DS-1.

Hit up our support team if you'd like some help man - support.serato.com

sam.

@Matt P… In Serato DJ 1.8.1, I have random audio drop outs and the wave forms are jerky. Serato DJ takes a while to locate a music file when I do a search. Sometimes I even get the Mac spinning color wheel. I've tried Serato DJ while using my Rane 62 with Denon 3900s in HID mode and also on my Vestax VCI 400 controller. The results are still the same. I went back to Serato DJ 1.7.8 and the random audio drop outs have decreased but the wave forms are still jerky. Serato DJ seems to struggle to read my external hard drive. I'm using a late 2012 Mac Book Pro 10.8.5 2.6 I7 processor 750gb internal hard drive and 8gb RAM. All my music and vids are on a separate 4tb G drive that is half full. I use the firewire 800 connection. When I run SSL with my denon 3900s and the Rane 62 it works flawless on that same computer.

THIS!!!

Chino,

Yeah thats not good man. We should investigate whats going on with your Hard drive and see whether its something SDJ isn't doing right with the library stuff.
I assume you have a support ticket for this yeah?

Hit me with the # if you can and i'll see if I can lend a hand too.

MP

The music fades in and out randomly. After some minutes up to an hour.
I was in contact with Denon and with Serato. They need up to an week to give me an answer. How is that supposed to help me... I was in contact with some guys from Denon lately. Had telephone contact and they said, that the DS1 is not supported with El Capitan. I HAD TO NAVIGATE THEM to the page (their own page!!), that said, that it is supported. "oh yeah I see, okay it is supported"
How the hell, should someone help me, if they don't even know their own crappy hardware...

To be honest, I'm tired of this shit.
I'm now using my girlfriends Macbook Pro with Yosemite to DJ.
I will NOT!! downgrade to an older OS. I'm java developing with my MacBook, I did spent weeks in setting everything up and I don't see SDJ and DS1 properly supporting El Capitan in the near future.

I hate SDJ so much, I want to scream. I'm so bad angry, that SSL support stopped. EVERYTHING worked so great for almost 10 years and now I want to throw that shitty interface against every wall I can find.

You shouldn't be having any known issues with the latest version of Serato DJ, the Denon DJ DS-1 and El Capitan as it's a class compliant device and doesn't require drivers. If you contact our support team we will be able to look into what's going wrong and help you out.

You can contact us here: support.serato.com

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience so far but we would like to help.

Sam.

request succesfully submitted

lots of detailed and interesting points here from everyone, really hope they (Serato) are taking this thread seriously and maybe addressing the issues that are keeping people from using SDJ.

That explains why it's on sale now😂 We got expensive Rane devices and mixers and can't upgrade to El Capitan yet due to no driver support yet. Well what the fuck were they doing when El Capitan got released? Obviously not testing "their" devices💯

That's Ranes problem nothing todo with Serato at all. All other manufacturers have managed to sort their stuff out.

@Matt P I am having similar issues that Chino is having. I started a help request and a my own thread on Serato DJ General Discussion. It's been weeks and I have not received a response on either from the Serato staff.

I Have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) 3.1 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1867 MHz DDR3. I am still running Yosemite. Im using an SL3 and running DVS.

I have constant drop outs. I have tried every trouble shooting method in the book. Nothing seems to work. SDJ just won't run smoothly on my brand new Macbook Pro. Why? It's so frustrating.

That's why I still have to use SSL.

What's your help ticket reference? I'll chase that up Skitz, sorry you've not had a reply!

sam.

@Samuel S I can't find the ticket reference. I'll create a new one and send you that.

Thanks for the fast response.

Cool, flick that over and i'll give it a bump so someone gets in touch to help asap.

Cheers,

Sam.

this dude has some serious problems with sdj, prob because of pc though

twitter.com

m
Rane released some technical details on the issue with El Capitan
dj.rane.com

Well that does not sound like they will be able to fix it soon.

@Matt P… The ticket reference # is 153298. I appreciate the help! Thanks!!

Rane my bad. Well why have all the other manufactures been able to fix the issue or update drivers? What is taking so long? El Capitan will prob be outdated by the time we ever get a fix...

To put it very simply, there are two ways that a soundcard can connect, both totally legit. Rane chose the way that allows for lower latency and better audio but is more complicated. With El Capitan, Apple broke this way so it doesn't work as it should. I'm in touch with the Rane engineers every week and they are working with Apple and doing all they can to resolve this. It's a really unfortunate situation for everyone.

My advice for any OS update is always this: if you're a working DJ with a working OS, don't upgrade if you don't have to! With any OS upgrade, there are always issues and the developer will be releasing updates to fix these. Wait a while for everything to settle :)

Awesome so then there's hope then. I know they are working hard but we all can get a lil impatient sometimes when it comes to new OSX software. But it's very unfortunate for those that spent good money on technology and it's getting surpassed by new software. Apple hasn't been right since the passing of Steve Jobs. They are always fucking something up one way or another. I hope Rane fixes this soon so they can stay ahead of the game with all the other software out there. I just hope this doesn't happen again in the future💯

I can chalk this up in 2 words......USER ERROR. Here's why.....

The Op has clearly chosen "java developing" as his PRIORITY over serato with his refusal to downgrade in order to fix Serato which is solely his choice. But this is in direct conflict with all DJ software and other Mission critical applications as a whole if you only have 1 computer. The professional way to handle such conflicts is for the user to acquire 2 separate laptops and dedicate them according to his personal needs. If you cant afford to do so then maybe its time to find a new hobby (no sugar coating)

In order to properly manage DJ software It can not be forced into operating system updates due to the want/needs of other applications or its users fascination with new shinny things. To do so with total disregard for potential conflicts is by definition NEGLIGENT because the user failed to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances. These people lack the knowledge and experienced of professional users who understand how to properly manage mission critical applications and the options available to them. For eg.......
as per Michael R.


2. acquire 2 separate laptops and dedicate them accordingly.
3. Partition internal drive and dedicate them accordingly.
4. Boot form an external drive containing conflicting but mission critical applications.

The options are there but if you don't know, then you don't know.

how is it my fault, if I buy myself a new 3.000$ macbook and SUPPORTED hardware and it is still not running? it is not my "hobby" I'm a PROFESSIONAL DJ for about 10 years now. that means I make my living off of it and am DJing 2-5 times a week.
Indeed I own a second macbook. but that should not be the way it is ment to be! macbooks cost almost 3-4x the money a laptop would cost and why? because it is (usually) working perfectly! do you own a macbook for every task you are doing? should I get a macbook for email, one for facebook and maybe one for pornographie now? stupid thinking.
the only problem for me is, that they promote it as supported and it is obviously not...
If they say it is supported, I demand it to be supported.
If I buy an apple, I dont want it to be a banana!

That's funny lol. Anyways here's a list of devices which are currently supported/unsupported support.serato.com

But it's not Rane's fault for all the problems it's El Capitan that causes usb audio issues. It is not just DJ hardware it's happening to a lot of users. Here's proof it's Apple's fault ->discussions.apple.com

I see much of what I said went over you head, I will try and explain it in a way you can better understand later.

I still use SSL because it just works!! I have to use SDJ at my Saturday night venue because they have the Pioneer DJM900NXS, but so many times I've had the program mess up because my WiFi was on The SDJ stops reading the control signal and I have reboot the program to get it back to normal. Never had that problem with SSL. I know what some of you guys are gonna say "just turn off your WiFi" but unfortunately it's not that simple when you have guest feature entertainers come in unprepared and you have to download songs for their performance on the fly. Not only that but this new "Pulselocker" feature they are introducing will be kinda pointless if you can't connect to the internet while using SDJ

I downloaded SSL for my laptop running Windows 10. Haven't used it live since I don't have any Rane hardware, but it opens, plays music, and shuts down more smoothly than SDJ does, and SSL doesn't even support Windows 10............

This thread is posted in many forums and it s mind blogging to see how many people still uses ssl...I hope serato is taking note of this and realize that they had something going good with ssl and spoiled it with sdj

+1

My problem with SDJ are as follows NO Legacy HID CDJ-400 Support, No Ableton Live *.ALS (The Bridge) support then SDJ is buggy as hell!! can't even have WIFI on and/or Record my sets!!! Without SDJ acting out!!! but with ScratchLive-SSL it works just fine WIFI/Recording/Effects!! Just recently did a fresh clean install of Windows 10 had GUI Issues with SDJ but Serato response was update my Video Drivers which ultimately did fix the problem but SSL worked just fine no problems what's so ever. That's why ♡ <3 #SSL #SSL4LIFE #ScratchLive #ScratchLive4Life <3 ♡

+1 Simón Qué sí

djs are 85% thots and idiots (percentage even higher with SDJ users) and camelot is way more idiot-proof than classical. it would make sense to use as the default code, no?

im guessing this will get fixed but in the meantime, does it make a difference if we batch-edit the tags in SSL or SDJ?

Has anyone also noticed how HORRIBLE the auto-gain is in SDJ? Every time I fire up SSL (still surprised it works so smoothly in an OS not supported) I noticed its auto-gain sounds better than SDJ's. I'm honestly thinking about buying some legacy Rane gear and running SSL for a while.

DJ TooHypE, have you used SSL on Windows 10 at a gig?

Not yet as I don't gig out as I used too, but I do record often in Win 10 with SSL and I never had a problem. But I will respond later if I do gig out since I'm tracking this post & will get back at you.

BTW I use the Rane SL4 on Win 10 no problem with SSL.

my last post wasnt really on topic so heres my take fwiw... i use both SSL and SDJ because i still use a 57 or a SL1 from time to time. SSL definitely feels more solid. this is of course because serato now prioritizes features over stability. really, thats in response to market demand. really, OUR demands.

this thread has legit veterans speaking. we all realize of course that we can still use the legacy hardware and SSL forever. but we also want the new bells and whistles that SDJ is pushing. it might not be realistic to expect to have both.

the new serato is geared towards a newer larger amateur market that has different values. but controllers are selling. its hard to find quality tools at toys-r-us. its also hard to argue with the serato dj model from a business perspective.

the good news is that as all these new djs grow, they will value stability more. and as a new product matures, bugs tend to get ironed out. keeping threads like this active helps push things in the right direction. props to the OP.

I too still use SSL.

I tried the switch, but so far, it has been a gme of hit and miss: at first my SL2 was not recognized, then after re-installing all drivers, it worked, but there were usb dropouts, sometimes ocasionally, sometimes very frequently / continuously, and that'w why I do not feel confident using it in a live environment.

SSL 2.5 is solid as a rock, never ever had any issues with it so far, very reliable partner.

The one controller that is making me jump to sdj just isn't working right. So I'm still stuck with ssl and my sl1.

yes its awful. more than a few people have noticed.

Hey everyone

Just wanted to chime in here and say thanks for all the feedback you're giving us. We're very proud of the legacy of Scratch Live and the loyalty that it has fostered among long time users.

We're also proud of what we have achieved to date with Serato DJ and we want nothing more than to generate a high level of enjoyment and appreciation for all our users as we develop Serato DJ over time.

We are constantly chipping away behind the scenes to bring the level of stability that any DJ requires (especially working DJs), and also to make sure that our feature set fulfils everyone's needs and keeps us on the edge of developments in music technology.

So please keep letting us know what you want and need from our products - we really appreciate the time you take to let us know your thoughts and all feedback goes into the mix in our decision-making. Thoughts and ideas discussed in our forum and other channels are a constant topic of conversation here at HQ.

If you haven't been there before; to make or support feature suggestions, get involved in our feature suggestion area: serato.com

And for anyone experiencing issues with Serato DJ or any other of our products, please open up a help request with our support team at support.serato.com - we'll always do our best to get you running smoothly.

Thanks, Aaron

So about that auto-gain...........

I've said it before and I'll say it again. SDJ should of just stayed with controllers. Ever since DVS moved to SDJ it hasn't been tight enough💯 oh and fix the echo out I'm still using SSL because of that👌🏻

It would be interesting to hear exactly what issues you are having with auto gain @akaTRAP. User reports are quite varied and often difficult if not impossible to reproduce. Where gain is concerned, there can be a lot of factors at play.

And yes, we hear you with echo out @Tecniq. Unfortunately not possible without some sort of macro FX, and we are aware that this is also a highly requested feature.

Aaron

My issue with it is how widely it'll vary from song to song, even though SSL seems to have it down packed and can actually keep an even volume level between song changes.

Okay, would you mind sending me a couple of files that vary a lot in SDJ (and not in SSL) so I can have a listen?

You can upload files here serato.com, and post the links in this thread. If you want more privacy for your taste in music, you can PM me instead ;-)

Cheers

serato.com

and

serato.com

these are the best examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Thanks man, I'll take a look when I'm back in tomorrow morning.

Aaron

Does it matter if one of those is a pretty explicit song? Cuz it is, the Creep 2014 edit is.

Why should we have to pay for more fx? That's ridiculous and it seems as if SSL has more fx anyway. I only have the Wolfpack fx which were free. Really would like more stability than features.

Aaron I have opened a number of threads in the feature suggestion to only fall on deaf ears. Have given them a bump in light of this thread though..

Macro FX isn't another paid FX Expansion Pack - it refers to a new feature we'd have to develop similar to "Ultra Knob" in Scratch Live. It's something that's on our radar for sure and hopefully may be worked on at some stage.

We have additional paid FX in Serato DJ that are interesting and unique for DJs that want to add these to their sets. The core set of FX is very solid too though so you shouldn't need to buy anything for a solid set of DJ FX to use in your sets - the option is just there if you want more.

sam.

isnt problem with echo out that it distorts? why do you need a macro fx to stop that?

What Tecniq is referring to is the 'Echo Out' effect from Scratch Live which was actually achieved by chaining 2 effects using the Ultra Knob as Sam says. To make an identical effect in Serato DJ, you would need to be able have two effects under a single control - 'macro FX'

In terms of distortion, echo effects can be tricky to manage if your gain structure is already near peaking as they can add to the overall gain on the channel. It's usually not too difficult to find a sweet spot though, where you can run your channels at the levels you want, but leave enough headroom to punch in the echo.

Hit up the support team if you're having trouble with distortion when using echo effects support.serato.com

Thanks @al83, the Products team are always keeping an eye out in the feature suggestions area so it's well worth putting your ideas out there.

It may sometimes feel a bit quiet because they like to give other users a chance to join in and discuss of their own accord, but they are definitely listening.

Aaron

Haha, no problem :P, I'll give them a listen now.

Exactly it distorts I have it mapped to my dicers but what is interesting it seems to always be the left deck the right deck it doesn't seem to distort and levels aren't anywhere near peaking.

not sure if this what he was talking about, but these are the questions that confuse users the most.

ill outline it

ssl works fine
echo out works fine
echo's are generally considered a very simple effect
echo's are used often in djing for transition and effect
sdj is introduced
sdj has echo out
sdj's echo out distorts
echo is a widely used effect (see above)
echo is a basic effect (see above)
people wonder why echo works in a older program and doesnt work in the new one.
now the effect system has to be changed to get a simple echo out
people wonder 'why would you not keep it like serato'
people then get no real definitive idea of why something would go backwards.

---

i think thats the general sentiment on little basic things that changed in SDJ.

of course there are work arounds and such but really its puzzling to the users.

its the same thing with auto gain and for a long time(now its back to ssl levels as of 1.74) midi mapping.

oh well.

Echo out in scratch live does not distort! So are you implying that the main reason why echo out in serato dj distorts is because sdj has no macro effects feature like scratch live.

Echo distortion in serato dj has been brought up in every beta as an issue but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Agreed. Now that brings my next question. What about all these "new" mixers that are fully midi mappable. Does that mean the echo out doesn't work correctly either? I would assume it would be the same like with my SL3.

Here's an idea... Bring back SSL without all the bells and whistles that SDJ has and just add support for new mixers. Then you guys can go back to having a rock solid program

Thanks for the outline Mr. Goodkat, quite accurate from what I've read and heard :)

I totally agree with that rationale and understand feeling confused by the little basic things that have been changed. Part of the challenge in talking through these changes is that they largely all have different reasons behind them.

With echo, firstly I want to say that we have been listening to the reports of distortion and we have spent a fair amount of time investigating exactly what people have been saying in an effort to isolate what might be going on.

The first big difference of course is that the echo effect in SDJ was built for us from the ground up by our friends at iZotope. so the echo in SSL was built by Serato and the SDJ echo by iZotope. We worked very closely with iZotope on the effects for SDJ and were happy to release them.

One thing that seems clear though is that the saturation in the SDJ echo is greater than the saturation in the SSL echo. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is up for debate, but one thing that's clear is that as a result, the echo in SDJ can more easily sound distorted than the echo in SSL (though in our tests this is only true when it's 100% wet and various gains are right at the limit of acceptable before applying it).

Another thing is that yes, the auto gain in SDJ is different to the one in SSL. Our feeling is that we have improved it, but both algorithms will have hits and misses and they will likely be in different places to each other. A track whose gain was poorly recognised in SSL may be good in SDJ and vice versa. This can definitely throw you off and push you into distorted audio unexpectedly on a track by track basis.

And one other aspect is that there is a lot of different hardware out there now. This of course doesn't matter as much if you are using an SL2 with both SSL and SDJ, but it matters a lot if you are using an SL2 with SSL and an SX with SDJ. And there are also differences in the mix architecture between SSL and SDJ that are necessary to accommodate the various hardware. This makes a direct comparison of levels (and distortion) tricky.

Phew, long post. Apologies for the ramble and I hope it doesn't sound like I'm lecturing. I'm just keen to talk through these things with you all so we can come at it with the same info.

Having said that, I'm going camping for 5 days so won't be back in here till Tuesday. There's plenty of good people here ready to talk though so fire away :)

Aaron

I think we are far off from an update soon considering all the issues with El Capitan. If echo out could be fixed that would be awesome till then I'm SSL it just works and benefits me as a working DJ. Appreciate all the info.

Quite the opposite of a ramble - thanks a lot for detailed info!!! (even though I am not using SDJ but only SSL...)
Other support/dev people (from the competitors as well as software-dev/support teams in general all over the world & industries) should take note of how good, honest/transparent & helpful interaction with the user-base can look like...
Thanks Aaron!
c.

so glad i didn't swap out my rane 62 for the 57 mk2 or the ddj s9 and i almost did...bieng able to play both ssl and sdj on the 62 im able to continue using ssl until sdj get they shit straight..the rane 62 is a gem..

You know I think I'm gonna go the same route and get a cheaper mixer that supports both programs like the Z2 with my SL3👍🏻 it's better to have a backup that is stable.

Probably the best thread summing up I've ever read, well done! Spot on, that is EXACTLY the sentiment.

Well it seems we at least have progress on the recognition of the issues, thanks Aaron also for taking the time to respond, I know for sure we would not be so lucky with other developers.. All we can do is wait & hope for SDJ 2.0 to bring it home for us, until then its SSL.

From the brief time I spent with SSL, I really don't think the auto-gain in SDJ is better than SSL. I personally don't think it's that great in my honest opinion. Maybe it's the DDJ-SR I've been using, but I can't count how many times one song has been nice and loud and the other comes in noticeably softer than the song I'm mixing out. I can't hear it in the headphones, so it catches me by surprise when it actually happens live. Luckily the college bar I play at doesn't really care too much so long as it's loud and I play well, but I've noticed it for the past five months I've been playing there.

The ddjsr seems to have lots of feedback when it's turned on. Listen to your speakers with no music the whole unit has a slight buzzing noise. I can def hear it out my krks

It's not my personal unit, it's one that belongs to the bar. I'm still picking which piece of SDJ equipment I want to purchase on my own. I wonder if the SX(2) will have similar issues because I'm interested in that unit.

SDJ is pretty stable for me at the moment. I have no need at the moment to upgrade to el captain tho. I only use my macbook pro for djing.

When they quietly removed the limiters from dvs enabled devices, I couldn't tell the difference between SSL and SDJ.

I can always tell the difference between a sdj limited and unlimited device for some reason. Something sounds intensly brickwalled to me on a limited device. I think we should have a hidden option for advanced users to disable the limiters on controllers. Even if its a registry hack of some kind, because I don't recommend it for beginners and people who don't know how to use amplified systems correctly.

I also think SDJ is not too far off from replacing SSL. My money is on v2.0

Amen

Am still holding on to my rane 68 because i can use the bridge plus mix tape and i can use sdj too if i wan to. But mainly i use ssl because of the bridge.

As long as the torch still burns, keep doing so. That's the nice thing, 99.9999999% of the world isn't going to know/complain if someone is running SSL or SDJ. If The Bridge allows you to do your thing, be happy, or make money keep using it.

Hell if I still had my SL3 and DVJs I'd keep rocking SSL if it suited my needs.

I'm done with this shit. I'll bring my DS1 back to the store as soon as I get up tomorrow.
Today I've played a gig with my girls MacBook Pro 2,5Ghz 15 Inch with Yosemite and the DS1 wasn't able to connect. I give up. I'm done with SDJ. I will keep using my SL1 and SSL. Never had problems with that. I'm going to install Yosemite on an intern partition (at my MacBook Pro 15Inch 2,5) and will life the fact I have to do that the next years. The hell I will uninstall SDJ with a big smile. Worst shit I've ever used.

Fuck you Serato... Really fuck you for stop supporting SSL...
Fist time I saw SDJ I tought it is some "Intro" thing for crappy controllers and now I'm forced to use that? No thanks... I really gave it a try. But it is the worst peace of shit I've ever seen. How can you guys really expect PROFESSIONAL DJS use this shit? Shit Shit Shit!!! Have I used shit? Because you really need to use that word if you have to describe SDJ.

Good night.

Lmfao I love you. Working DJ's are finally getting that SDJ is garbage. The fucking fx don't work, the waveforms are jittery/lagging even on a good computer, scrolling tracks are jittery. The shit is just not tight. SSL still blows it out of the fucking water hands down the most "functional" software ever. SDJ is a joke I have to agree. If you honestly think SDJ is better than SSL then your prob sucking one of the developers dicks👌🏻💯 yes I'm drunk but that's valid and the cold hard truth👏🏻

There's a lot that I like about SDJ, but basic core functionality that SSL had in droves is still missing - years after SSL development stopped, and this is what is so frustrating and pissing off a lot of long time, brand faithful customers. Its obvious when designing the new software and discontinuing SSL a complete oversight was made on what actually made the original program so successful.

Don't know guys... I have been using SSL somewhere in 2007 or so, then moved away, used Itch, the moed away again and got back year or two ago.
You know nothing about the pain when Serato maintained several different applcations that days and unifying the code was the best step they took.

Even I have a crappy old MPB from 2011, I never experienced any of the issues on SDJ and I never looked back to SSL as the SDJ works ok for me same way as the SSL did.
I never had jittery waves or scrolling, had only one crash during a gig at all (and it was on beta), I have no lags or dropouts and I don't care about any fx (I see no point in killing someones sound with something that its not intended to be there).
Maybe I am just lucky one but I'd be really surprised if its so as my computer is a real messy piece of shit and even though the SDJ is rock solid.
The only thing that piss me off on the SDJ is that the development is focused on a useless crap instead of rolling out major improvements and new features (ok we got the key analysis after two or how many years....). The development is somehow stuck in the circles and not moving much forward - we are told that there were some changes made under the hood but tbh I don't care much - I wan't to see something new that will push my creativity again.
If you don't like the SDJ so much, then come on guys - install and use the old SSL and stop moaning. Or move to Traktor if you think it will be better (trust me it will be not). Or there is a Rekodbox comming. Or grab Mixvibes or Virtual DJ. You have planety of choices and noone makes you to stick with SDJ..

This ^ +1
Just last two months got Traktor Pro because NO LEGACY Pioneer CDJ-400 HID Support (Traktor Supports them) or *.ALS (The Bridge) but I still come back too SSL mainly because am familiar with SSL and because of (The Bridge) still having few bits obstacles with Traktor which one day I'll overcome in time as soon I am more familiar with the DVS and how too properly setup with my SL4 to record my sets, or properly use it in General!!

I use both SSL and SDJ. The same great experience on both. My biggest gripe use to be Itch, but SDJ is more rock solid for me. I do feel bad for any DJ experiencing issues but apparently it's not every DJ who uses SDJ having these problems. So you can imagine how perplexed that must make Serato support. For every 2 DJs having issues there are 10 having a great experience but not coming on this site reporting that.

+1

this seems to be the case. but you need ...

need a fairly new computer, with storage and ram maxxed

and

dont use el capitan

and

confirm and repair permissions on a reg basis

and

use quality files.

finally upgraded to a terabyte hybrid drive after having maybe 10-20 gb on my 500 for the last year(mid 2012 mbp-16 gb ram). much better and can run at 2ms in the buffer no problem now.

See my post i have a crappy mbp2011 - the only thing added is a ssd, I never fixed perms, haven't maxed ram and 2-5ms buffer is more than ok...
I am not using el capitan - why would I? Its known to be a crappy release when you are working with audio and using it would not make anyhow cool...

Tbh, rule of thumb is every time a new OS comes out, you wait a few months for your DJ hardware to be fully supported if you want to make the jump. There's really no reason to upgrade to a new OS unless you want some shiny new feature they're advertising of if it's that much more optimized (hint: it almost never is).

Anyway, the only thing I don't like about SDJ is the auto-gain. SDJ does look better than SSL but I have noticed SSL seems more optimized than SDJ. btw my laptop specs are as follows:

i7 4710hq
8GB RAM
256 PCIe based m.2 SSD
GTX 860m (2GB of GDDR5 memory)
Windows 10 (upgraded from 8.1)

My laptop's no slouch by any means, and SSL responds better than SDJ does.

sdj does have a lot more features so it makes sense that SDJ is more of load on your CPU and RAM.

What most people are saying is how can you go from ssl to sdj and make that large of a jump in what it takes to make an app run.

its like cost an apt going from 1000$ a month to $3000 a month. its not huge in terms of actual money, but in the grand scheme of things its yuuuuge(donald trump huge).

The thing is SDJ isn't a big load at all. It's just not as optimized as SSL. SDJ having more features doesn't mean it'll use more resources (it does btw), it just doesn't use them efficiently like SSL appears to.

In defense of Serato, it does take a good while to optimize software. That's not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination. I just wish it had more of a priority than adding another controller I don't care about, or another feature that I won't use.

And my God, why is the waveforms laggy on Windows?

To be honest they should have spent more time bringing over smart enhancements for DVS (like autoplayback, sure helps me with my cocktail and dinner sets) until they could have made SDJ as good as SSL. But they wanted to pull the bandaid off quickly, and in doing so may have hurt their reputation a bit in the process.

All these features added so far and still no fading between songs for auto play.

Still not getting all the autoplay features in the dj software....
Why can't you use ANYTHING else when you want that bloody autoplay? Itunes, winamp or smply any dumb player.... Why you even bother using serato when you want the autoplay??
The Photoshop doesn't have any autodraw, Ableton doesn't have any autocompose, Autocad doesn't have any autoprototype etc. - why a dj software supposed to be controlled by a hardware should have some stupid autoplay?

Well for me, as a wedding DJ, auto-fade would be a nice feature since there are times during the pre-ceremony, cocktail, and dinner where I'm not always in front of my decks. At least there is auto play to help out but I sure don't want to use other software.

You should be there - thats what you are paid for :-DDD

I am there, running the rest of the show. Bouncing from vendor the vendor to make sure everything's going good, coordinating with the venue. Would be much easier if I had an assistant but I don't roll with one. :-)

anyways, i think we are all missing the point here. Just switch back to SSL because that did have auto-fade!?!

No, I think the point is that Serato should have never stopped development on SSL until SDJ was really stable. It was a tank and people could rely on it.

BUT........ neither SSL or SDJ have auto-fade and it is a feature request. This should be discussed in a different thread.

In all fairness it was not always a tank. I remember the early days when SSL was like SDJ now. But it eventually got better with each new version.

I used SSL since v1.5 or so and it was a tank. Few issues with v2 but ironed out pretty soon after release.

A few? SSL 2.x and the tag writing shenanigans nukes a WHOLE library of mine once (thank you backups!). I almost mailed a pile of cow poop to NZ over that.

Anyway use what works folks, you can still rock the TTs playing nothing but vinyl, you can bang on a Launchpad all night in Ableton, or you can run SDJ with a controller or DVS. I just would NOT buy a newly launched piece of EQ to use with SDJ.

At this point it's like an OS upgrade. Give it 6 months (DDJ-SZ hardware issues are a good example), then jump on board.. I'm sure the S9 and other mixer (driver issues) weirdness people are having will be better by late spring.

Check the archives. There were plenty issues and a lot of bitching DJs back then. But that's to be expected in the software world.

I'm 3 months in with my hardware problems. Seems like support has other things to do.

Ironically, most industries have the same issue. The drive to get more stuff out usually ends up with quirks, even if you read about companies like Tesla, even they get dogged by tech issues that the early adopters have to deal with. All you can hope for is progress that eventually gets your stuff fixed.

what makes it harder is they can't replicate my issue. i've replicated it with every possible configuration and computer i've tried.

what's cool is they offered to remote log in to see what's going on. and i was like "sure, let's do this." and now i've been waiting for their response for a couple weeks =(

maybe the upcoming denon mcx 8000 has them testing out a new beta that has to be compatible with it and make sure that it is "running smooth" before hitting the market at the end of the month.

QUOTE:
There's a lot that I like about SDJ, but basic core functionality that SSL had in droves is still missing - years after SSL development stopped, and this is what is so frustrating and pissing off a lot of long time, brand faithful customers. Its obvious when designing the new software and discontinuing SSL a complete oversight was made on what actually made the original program so successful.

+1000!!! I completely agree. I'm giving SDJ one last shot. I'm buying the new Denon MCx8000 controller and I will also max out my Mac Book Pro. I'm upgrading the RAM to 16gigs and putting in a Samsung EVO Pro 1TB SSD. If I don't see significant improvements to SDJ's overall stability and performance then I will say goodbye to SDJ. I value STABILITY and PERFORMANCE over new features.

What's wrong with using Virtual DJ? It has auto fade🙄

Where is that puke emoticon? :-)

can't use mixemergency with it!

Hey skinnyguy - apologies for that. Luke has been investigating your issue and seeking advice from people in other teams. he's going to hit you up shortly to try and set up that remote session.

Thanks, Aaron

just missed his call. had to pick up my daughter. just replied to his email. thanks.

No worries. I saw the video you sent through and it looks pretty random. Hopefully Luke can see something during the call that will help.

I agree with many here and still use SSL - here is my main issues (some noted):

1. SDJ is definitely made for controllers and the CDJ market. The purity, simplicity, and stability of SSL is for turntablists and those who do not care as much about all the "bells and whistles". And I have a Macbook Pro solely used for DJn and nothing else.
2. I did put in a request for a "zero decimal BPM option" in the Virtual Deck similar to SSL. In SDJ, you can only set to 1 or 2 decimals and it seems to fluctuate like crazy which is distracting when moving the pitch slider. Also fluctuates at times as the track is playing.
3. The instant doubles function works different in SDJ vs. SSL.
4. If you analyze files first in SDJ, it completely changes the key notation in SSL. So now, I update SSL first and then open SDJ if using.
5. I am still on Yosemite and now Mac is all the way up to Sierra so....not sure how long we can all hold out. I guess I can buy a new one and partition the OS.

It may take time to get used to SDJ. I have a S9 (only works with SDJ) as well as a Rane 62. And now that Rane has been bought out by InMusic, it could be the end for them - lets hope not.

HOWEVER...is it that hard for Serato just to put out ONE update every 6 months or a 1-year just for all there loyal SSL users?

Wait you can change the decimal point? How? As for the bpm decibels fluctuating I thought this was just how SDJ works but compared to SSL it stays steady I have noticed when the pitch is set in the middle of the turntable the 0 point it still kinda fluctuates but internal mode does not do this or act this way. So is it a defect or something that can be tightened cause it is bothersome. I've heard the fluctuation is more of an accurate reading as turntables have a slight fluctuation or wow/flutter. It is just interesting how much more tighter SSL still is.

As much as I would love Serato to do this, it would be foolhearted for them to do it. If they did a post-EOL update then that would signal to the DJ community that SDJ has failed on some level that they had to dust the cobwebs off and update something that is supposed to be dead. Also if they did an update there is no guarantee that it would remain as stable as 2.5.

They should have never focused on a combined product. I can understand the why, but in the end SSL and Itch were two different beasts.

You sound a little ignorant bud, on fox news levels ;-) . SSL isn't better/tighter with this, it just shows less and rounds. Since it shows whole numbers there is "less" flux. Internal mode has no wow and flutter... hence no changing decimal points. Hexum is just asking for less info (whole numbers), not implying Serato DJ is off with its BPM accuracy.

#ssl4life

Ignorant? Because SDJ fluctuates decibel points and SSL doesn't? No sir that's called comparing...

Bro go thru all your keys. And rename them accordingly.
So sort by key then edit them eg.

In SDJ it will be 11A But in SL it will be different.
So in Serato DJ Rename all to 11A 12A etc and in SL it will show up renamed.

i am still a big fan of mixedinkey. No issues here.

I use SSL because it works with my Denon DN-HC4500

SDJ does not

I sill use SSL to records PRE-FADER scratches.

Sucks that capability is missing.

I sill use SSL, SDJ CPU Hog its still too heavy. software manufacturers like mixemergency made their product lighter. " SERATO " pay attention.

Want to see if any of you have experienced this or have a fix (submitted to Serato an issue ticket yesterday). The MIDI mapping is faulty in SDJ. In Scratch Live I use knobs on my Korg Zero 4 mixer to scroll tracks and adjust loop size and they work fantastically. However, on SDJ, with MIDI on the same settings, it is way too clumsy to be useful. It doesn't correctly identify the start and end points of the knobs and just works totally differently from SL. Huge bummer and I've been using SL just for those features to work.

I'm also facing these problems with loop midi, even using relative mode, offset, and others

all updates are for new products, ignoring the old users.

Are you still running XP too? Move on.

What "move on" to a clunkier program that still doesn't have some of the basic features as tuned as SL did e.g. sticker lock, loop midi etc.? I'd rather stick with what works.

Using your example, it's the same as everybody that stayed on XP, waiting for something else, when W8(whatever it was. I'm a Mac user) was so horrible.

Hey Guys,

When a product goes end of life, there is literally no support for it. It is not required and legally cannot be challenged, so lets just face some hard facts that eventually you will have to move if you want the latest bells and whistles, on or you can stick with your current hardware combination. Nobody is forcing you to change your gear.

The advice to move on, however harsh it is, is just the truth. We will eventually have to move on if we want the latest features and equipment. If you like your current setup, do not upgrade or buy new equipment.

I will chime in with my experience on this situation as I have been an active user since 2008.

I use a 2012 Mid Macbook Pro with OSX Yosemite. I have dual SSD Drives and 16GB Ram maxed out. Its a big laptop compared to current sized newer laptops but I have minor issues with Serato DJ and Zero issues with Scratch Live.

SDJ is not a CPU hog on my machine, which includes Mix Emergency and Pitch N Time Enabled. SDJ about 1/8 hotter than SSL on this machine.

There is a whole host of solutions on this forum that I myself and others have recommended over and over and over again to help each and every one of you guys run your systems better. You can take the time and look for a solution, or ask, but when we give you guys our honest opinion, why should we get bashed for it?

We also encourage you guys to really search for the answers here because we are honestly tired of answering the same questions over and over again.

that's the same for all forums which are not tightly moderated

it's a natural order of things to evolve, so why does not the serato video evolve?
because the midi part did not follow the scratch live standard to evolve?
rather than frequent updates because it does not update with a longer time and bring both new products and improved features?

I can not understand why they sell the video serato if the serato itself recommends the emergency mix.

Serato Video and Video DJing in general is just not as popular as you think it is. To give you some real life example. I do not run into that many DJs who look at what I do as a video DJ and want to invest in it, and I work with a ton of DJs. In fact, some DJs who did invest in the craft since video SL was announced have since dropped it all together for whatever reason.

There are some quirks but I believe Serato Video in its current condition with the right machine is very useable. Mix Emergency is just like an advanced OSX only version of Serato Video. I think it's cool that Serato actually promotes it and supports it and gives you options. Options are always good for us the end user.

I've experienced a similar situation. Out of five of my DJ friends, I'm the only one who is still actively booking video gigs. All my DJ friends have completely stopped playing videos. Their reasoning is that it involves too much work & most of their clients didn't want to pay extra for videos.

I find that your average sports bar/club won't pay extra unless it's a special event where music videos are specifically requested. Most of my wedding clients do not see the need for videos either (unless it's a slide show(montage).

I'm fortunate in that my Mitzvah clients LOVE music videos! I'm able to book out video packages (trussing & LED flat screens) monthly. Bigger cities like Philly, NY or Miami will also pay extra for video packages.

Btw, I've switched from Serato Video to ME long ago due to the GREAT support that Nick provides!

lol, I am SO not mad at this...

Everybody knows I stayed with what worked "For Me", being Windows XP and Scratchlive 1.9.1/2.

Finally said "Ok, need to step up" just a smidge, but as Pdidy always says, define and get your priorities in order, which will then dictate what gear you buy.

For me, it always seeing how many of you are CONSTANTLY having problems with Serato DJ, but in real real life, there will become a time when I WILL have to use it, so I may as well prepare vs. being one of those DJ's who shows up to a guest spot with my laptop and headphones out ready to put in work, and don't have the drivers.

So my priority was to get a MAXED OUT machine - Macbook Pro 2012 with Yosemite, 16GB, i7-2.9GHz with a 1TB SSD drive (because you know the prices will eventually fall for the drives), and jump to Scratchlive 2.x.

Runs FLAWLESSLY, and very fluid - Plus I have Serato DJ installed JUST in case.

Memory maxed out so there won't be any question of hardware compatibility, and it just works.

Change is gonna come, but if you plan ahead, YOU are in control of your own destiny.

I have NO TIME for downtime during a gig, it's crazy though as SOME crowds have gotten used to it....

smh.

friends, do not see this as a revolt because I really like serato since when I bought my sl3.
this is just a suggestion for an update of a product that has long been stationary.

I still use serato scratch live on my mac i5 with 16gb of ram with video, because I got used to it, it's light and does not bring me any problems. but I have the serato dj installed and I have used it a few times.

I think the issue is that the people with the problems are going to be the loudest and it gives a bit of a skewed view of the product. Few people are going to come on a forum just to say "yup, program works for me."

Keep in mind that there are also likely way more DJs on SDJ than scratchlive given the pricing and gear barrier to DJing when SSL first came out and add to that the higher range of devices that SDJ needs compatibility with, more problems are going to get caught.

I've been using SDJ for about 3 years straight now and while it was buggy as hell when it first dropped, it's been pretty smooth for the last 2 years or so and I'd say I had more problems with SSL near the end than I do currently with SDJ.

"Yup...program works for me" It's been about 3 years on SDJ from SSL because i ditched my SL1 for a SL3. No dropouts, no crashes. The only thing I have is waveform jitter when I scroll. And thats my fault for not maxing out the memory on my laptop. (only running 4GB) on a i5 Acer by the way.

I do miss the proper auto gain in SSL but everything else has been fine for me.

+1

I'd have to respectfully disagree here....

Because of this



See, that's the Zero tolerance breaker that I'm not settling for.

Again, I have NO TIME for any buggyness, or downtime during a gig...

I'll stay with a product that's WORKING versus jumping on the Pre-Sales bandwagon that a lot of y'all get on...

I'm still in awe that someone can pay for something that isn't even OUT yet in the wild with Version 1.0 of whatever software to boot...

Makes no sense...

I suppose that's relevant if you were to magically time travel back in time 3 years ago, but the point is that they've gotten it working for a lot of people now.

And no, when it first dropped and was buggy, it's not like any profesional would be using it in the wild.

My point is that even 3 YEARS ago, I had no time for any downtime, and the same hold true today. As for it "working for a lot of people now", that Serato DJ help section stays moving, so to me, that's the litmus test.

Not everyone who reports a problem has an "Under Powered" laptop, or didn't read the manual.

A LOT of those are "Real" problems.

No thank you.

You mean, anybody who knew to properly TEST the software wouldn't use it in the wild without thoroughly doing their due diligence.

Again, a LOT of those are "Real" problems.

Like RIGHT NOW, in the back of your heads, y'all should have already come to the conclusion that Pioneer will eventually take this game over.

That's a fact.

You should be preparing to find an alternative to the White Label locked songs, and what would you do if "D" day arrives, and Serato is no longer supported.

Period.

Do you want to sit and hope that someone somehow gets open source files of ScratchLive (or Serato DJ if you must) and makes it public so developers across the world can build a better product?

Or do you have a disaster recovery plan?

If that is not in the back of you head, then you're just fooling yourself.

Hey, I hope Serato lasts FOREVER, but if they don't get the serious programming tactical team behind them, it's gonna be curtains.

I haven't used White label in years and the few tracks I do have, aren't exactly essential.

I don't see what your speculation of the future of Serato has to do with what we're talking about right now and right now, there are lots of DJs - myself included - that have had a rock solid experience with Serato DJ for years. I DJ on multiple pieces of gear, multiple times a week in everything from restaurants to weddings to giant music festivals and things have been running without a hitch for years.

i had trouble with sdj with my 62 but it worked with my sl3 box, a clubs srt 900 and my vci 380.

for some reason my sl3 doesnt work with it anymore.

prob need a fresh install of yosemite, but its weird that SDJ works with somethings pretty much flawlessly but SSL ALWAYS works with everything(that it should)

... anything that came from white label that was semi decent i replaced long ago, personally. there wasn't anything super exclusive on there that you couldn't buy or get from a pool elsewhere.

My point is that you've got "Rock Solid" performance NOW, but you had to go through the pains of downtime or errors to get there.

So, number one, I didn't have to do that, and secondly, I was referring to how you can be in control of your DJ destiny.

A lot of folks are choosing to ignore it.

And this is exactly what I mean....

I'd much rather invest in something that has a better chance of working...period.

I did have something rock solid "now" at the time - it was called scratchlive.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

And at some point you had something that WASN'T rock solid...Serato DJ.

which I used at home until it was rock solid - which was like a couple years ago.

You users of Scratchlive that are STUCK to it... sound like you want us to get jealous of where you are at still.

Never gonna happen!

You can’t keep up with the pace, that’s not my problem.

And please don’t get me wrong. I used to love Scratchlive too but it’s now a part of the past.

You talk about destiny, there is always a journey involved. Congratulations! You’ve just reach your destination.

At home?

Ok, but I didn't have time for testing at home either, waiting for it to eventually "get" rock solid.

That being said, A LOT of you didn't wait until it got rock solid to use it out in the wild.

LOL @ being "Stuck" to a product that in comparison to a lot of other stuff out there is FLAWLESS.

It just works.

I have no problem with not keeping up "with the pace" while you guys figure out all the bugs.

because of murphy's law, when you finally switch over to RB, it's gonna crash on you.

exactly. no point in "upgrading" if the upgrade is actually a downgrade. chasing trends like a lemming never works out well for anyone.

scratch live sounds best, is significantly lighter and reliable. not a tough call.

Actually, SSL was far from rock solid at times, especially during the "large library crisis". I honestly feel SDJ i more solid than SSL these days, at least for me and my library/setup...
Add to that the convenience of the club kit connection.

Even though SSL still lives on my system drive, It rearly gets booted up at all.

There was also the version that destroyed the media when writing tags to it.

I thought it was Serato DJ that had the library issues..

Regardless, for example, I had version 1.9.1/2 for a LONG time, what was your reason for "Upgrading" past that?

A LOT of cats upgraded only because a "New" version was released....vs. asking if it's something that they "Need".

Again, what was the reason for upgrading to the version from the door?

Just because it was "released" or were you forced to do it for some reason?

Scratchlive had issues with large libraries - SDJ has a fix, but I think still has problems although I think it can handle larger than SSL.

Gotcha.

I don’t recall ever having issues with a large library w/Scratchlive. SDJ on the other hand had a very hard time with large library and reading ext drives. SDJ also for some reason analyzes songs much slower than Scratchlive.

I do, it made me rethink the whole reason why I had a large library and I really couldn't justify having one when I had a Spotify premium account.

Best decision I ever made was starting from scratch and only utilizing the tracks I really needed and deleting the clutter.

that goes for most people and not only in case of serato. if more people would question more in general we'd have better software across the board because the companies wouldn't get away with so much junk.

which does of course apply to hardware as well

I agree, the forum was made to show possible errors and the software was improving, now this conversation that the future is there and it is necessary to update is difficult, upgrade to improvement not because it came out new version.

SSL had serious large lib issues, it was improved in the later versions. I had numerous crashes in 1.9. And It was worse on win than mac.

My main reasons for upgrade was buying the Rane 68 mixer and upgrading my SL1 to the SL4.

SDJ now handles big libraries way better than SSL ever did, at least from my personal experience. However, I recently started to downsize the lib, removing old clutter 😃

Rane 57mkii only reason for upgrading.

I don't use most new features because they are subpar, don't operate for my work flow or are for cotrollers.

I can understand the software upgrade because of a new hardware purchase.

It totally depends on your workflow and priorities.

Yep, 60%-70% gigs at that time were back-to-back type situations.
The 68 / SL4 made our lives much easier, than the SL1 daisy chain/piggy back setups...

New hardware compatibility. Or to squash a few bugs from previous version that affected me.

Haven't upgraded to the newest version yet because it seems like it's only for the new Denon gear compatibility. Which I don't have.

You ever notice that the chronic complainers with systems crashing and constant incompatibility issues also tend to be early update adopters ?

of course, that goes hand in hand.
a lot of people "upgrade" for no actual reason and then run into trouble. and the whole process repeats itself everytime a new version is released. in addition, the number of people who learn from that is surprisingly low so that continues to be a vicious circle.

Man.....You said that...

I didn't....

anyone who takes a fresh update - be it software or OS - to a gig without extensively testing it first at home kind of deserve what they get.

There was the bug in serato video that might cause a crash after 4 to 5 hours. Not easy to test for.

Totally agree that early adoption is bad practice for time critical applications!
The trick is to keep a few older versions installed. I learnt that during the SSL days, and still practice it. On my harddrive you'll find both SSL 2.5 (best SSL version IMO) and SDJ 1.7.8 up to 1.9.10. That way I can always use an older if I need to.

When playing 2 computers back to back on a 62, 64, SL4, S9, DJM900NXS, DDJ-SZ etc, I feel safer when both computers are using the same version. So I will adapt to what the other guy is using.

Also I never upgrade just for the sake of upgrading, I will normally add the new version to see if anything has improved or has a new feature I like, but I just might stay on an older version, if the last one just added support for hardware/features that I dont use.

My gigging machine is still on OSX Yosemite, and is rock solid (mbp 13" non retina).

I haven't used SSL in a while but I still keep it on my laptop. Last summer at the DMC regional in LA having Scratch Live on my laptop saved me.

For some reason when I connected my laptop running Sierra it did not recognize the Race 62. I was on stage and up next and nothing was woking. We tried a last ditch effort and opened Scratch Live. Thankfully it worked for the 6 minutes that I needed it to work. I totally did not expect it to work.

bought a 2014 62 and i could never get it to work with SDJ.

not once.

always worked with ssl

lot of people had problems with them, but i even had one guy running sdj while i was running ssl once. just weird

It just works...

Did you make sure the 62 had the latest firmware?
I initially had some issues with SDJ on my 62, but did get it working after some tinkering. Probably firmware updates, cant remember TBH. BTW love that mixer, even though I mostly use the S9 and the usual installed djm900 at the clubs, there is something special about those Rane mixers <3


Yeah, Yosemite has been very solid for me. El Capitan seemed somewhat a disaster, apples vista situation ;-) I never dared installing El Crapo. However, running Sierra on my iMac (running Ableton, Adobe CC for graphics, video & animation etc) and it has been pretty stable for me.

I will probably upgrade the macbook to Sierra as well, but no rush, I'm gonna make sure I have a backup macfor gig, before doing that. My currrent "backup" computer is a large win10 high specced rig, and I really don't want to drag it out to the clubs every weekend, as its both heavy and expensive.

yeah, went thru things with serato support but after about the 3-4th time i just gave up because i was afraid i would mess something up that i couldn't fix.

it still worked fine for 4 hrs with a 900 srt and sdj. for some reason it has worked with an s9 but it didnt recently and the spinning backwards things happened like with a 62. Also works with vci 380 but not with a SL3

most likely need a fresh install of yosemite but at the same time it does work with all my SSL devices 62 and SL3

Yeah I actually had issues with the S9 and my mbp13 2012. I cant remember how I solved it, but I did do fresh Yosemite install the 2012, as it came from preinstalled with el crapo. (last 2012 batch apple sold)

I remember when I first started testing out SDJ, all types of weird shit was happening including constant crashes and other issues. What helped for me was rebuilding my Serato database from scratch and moving the files back to the new folder one by one until I found out which file was causing the issue (don't remember which one it was, but it wasn't my crates).

Another thing that immediately improved performance was a complete rescane of my entire library. If you're like me, my library was a mish mash of files scanned from various versions of Scratchlive, Itch, and later DJ so completely reanalyzing all the files definitely seemed to help.

makes sense.

my itunes library turned 10 recently and its kinda how i sort things mentally (chronogically) but
thats also probably part of the problem.

I use itunes as well for the most part, but there was something in the switch from SSL to SDJ that either got corrupted or was incompatible. Try moving your _Serato_ folder somewhere else and relaunching SDJ - it will build an entirely new directory - and start moving essential files back as you need them. Also a rescan of your entire collection is not going to hurt and may solve some issues.

Jeez, I think my itunes library also turned 10 last year...

Personally, I only use iTunes for syncing my phone/ipad, and don't use it for DJ Software.
Main reason is that Apple will change their specs without notice. In my experience, SDJ and SSL before that, is way better without iTunes.

Also the Serato library is really easy to move around. I had my macbook break down a few weeks ago (broken internal hdd cable), and I just plugged in my carbon cloned copy of the library into my pc using an external drive = gig ready. Actually did 3-4 gigs with the pc, no issues at all...