Better Interface for Internal Mode...

feniks 3:45 PM - 6 July, 2004

i know that "Internal Mode" is more of a luxery right now. but i thought that it could be greatly improved by adding a few features to make it actually useable in a live situation. here's a list of features i thought would be helpful...

1. a larger pitch fader (as it's very hard to make minute adjustments on such a small fader) as well as a larger start/stop button

2. the ability to move the pitch fader with keystrokes as this would allow the very minute adjustments of the pitch which are required to keep the track beatmatched.

3. the ability to "nudge" the pitch up or down while mixing. most CDJ CD players have this feature as it simulates the DJ briefly nudging or slowly the turntable platter to keep the mixed tracks in sync. this could be accomplished on SL by 2 simple buttons (speed up, speed down) which could be wither clicked by the mouse or activated by keystrokes on the keyboard. the buttons would be "spring loaded" meaning that they would only be active as long as they are pressed and would return to inactive the moment they are released.

this would allow the DJ to use internal mode to DJ and mix in a livew situation. this might be improtant if the DJ was unable to use his control records or if there are turntable issues (not entirely uncommon for those who work in clubs). for example, lets say that the DJ starts his set using the control records but is forced to switch to internal mode on one side because some drunk clubber was leaning over the DJ booth and spilled an entire drink on that turntable which subsequently does not work now (sad to say, this has happened to me before). i guess you would actually have 2 options, you could continue to mix using the other turntable to control both sides (constantly clicking input reverse) or you could switch to internal mode on that side and continue your set. i don't know about the rest of you, but i do tend to make fine pitch adjustments on the outgoing track when necessary and you are unable to do this if you are only using 1 table. as it is now, internal mode is rather hard to use and it would be rather difficult to try and beat match with it's current configuration. anyways....this is just an idea. what do you all have to say about this?

Sam 4:38 AM - 7 July, 2004

Hi Feniks,
Internal mode was never intended as a way of mixing without vinyl or CD control, but this request has come from a few people now. I was speaking someone recently who was playing at a house party, and wanted to take a break. Basic internal mixing would let him hand over to someone else to 'just play some tracks' for a while, and let him go and get a drink...
We'll look into it.

feniks 6:46 AM - 7 July, 2004

yeah...i'm prob not one to really utilize the internal mode in a live situation (except if my track was longer than the control signal or if i was playing a mixed CD through SL). however, IF one wanted to use it as a way to mix tracks, i think that it would have to be changed a bit. personally, i think this does sort of defeat the whole purpose of the Scratch Live program. i mean think about it....the whole purpose of Scratch Live is to allow the user to maintain the "vinyl" feel while not having the certain disadvantages that go along with using vinyl (records wear out, scratches, cumbersome to lug around, etc....). that being said, i still think that this feature would have some use to some DJs. like you said, it would allow a "CDJ" who is familar with CD mixing to take over the decks for a while as well as give you a different option should you ever have turntable problems opr be unable to use your control signal vinyl.

cashless clay 1:59 PM - 7 July, 2004

Bloat is bad!

feniks 4:21 PM - 7 July, 2004

huh??

cashless clay 6:57 PM - 7 July, 2004

This type of feature will add bloat (excessive size/programming) to the app. I'm from the school of thinking that suggests that it is better to use stream lined apps that serve a single purpose, rather than bloated processor, heavy apps that are multi-purpose.

I think that most of the features that people suggest should be plug-ins rather than intergrated into the app. Added features will affect performance and if this is to be an app that is used for professional/club/studio use, performance should come first.

nik39 7:38 PM - 7 July, 2004

Agreed.

feniks 9:24 PM - 7 July, 2004

good point....and i totally agree. i use SL for the vinyl not use it as a computerized CD player.

SpinThis! 5:26 AM - 8 July, 2004

i agree. internal mode is more like the spare tire in your trunk. you can't go 65 with it but in a pinch it'll get you home.

i'm old skool too... if your deck goes bad it's not SL's problem. that's what backup equipment is for.

feniks 5:29 AM - 8 July, 2004

well said!

DJ 3pm 5:20 PM - 13 July, 2004

i don't think bloat is really much of an issue with this. ssl is a small enough app. my os x version was <1mb. just curious, why is the winblows version like 5x the size of the os x?

Steve W 10:32 PM - 13 July, 2004

The windows installer is larger because it contains (a) a copy of the pdf documentation and (b) some DLL's which aren't currently shipped with Windows XP.

xraydelta1 11:31 PM - 13 July, 2004

the whole point of SSL is the ACTUAL feel of REAL turntables. Internal mode defeats that purpose.

Hazeltine 5:45 AM - 16 July, 2004

i desagree. i have been in a live situation as well as a friend of mine where something was wrong with a turntable and we were forced to use internal mode. the fact is, this still happens and it would be important to have a MINIMAL set of features added to the internal mode.
this would be as simple as just one cue point (this to make it even simpler should just be a temp point you can set and not even saved with the file) and a key command to make it a bit simpler to do pitch nudging instead of the shift and click method.
i agree with the fact that the program should not get "bloated" because it does work amazingly well, but to just have that extra assurance when using it in front of a huge crowd means a lot to me. basically this would just be added to save the night and the dj's set while he/she can work out any problems they are having.
anyhow, a very important feature addition imo.

cashless clay 2:34 PM - 21 July, 2004

Quote:

i desagree. i have been in a live situation as well as a friend of mine where something was wrong with a turntable and we were forced to use internal mode. the fact is, this still happens and it would be important to have a MINIMAL set of features added to the internal mode.
this would be as simple as just one cue point (this to make it even simpler should just be a temp point you can set and not even saved with the file) and a key command to make it a bit simpler to do pitch nudging instead of the shift and click method.
i agree with the fact that the program should not get "bloated" because it does work amazingly well, but to just have that extra assurance when using it in front of a huge crowd means a lot to me. basically this would just be added to save the night and the dj's set while he/she can work out any problems they are having.
anyhow, a very important feature addition imo.

If you have faulty turntables, you shouldn't be djing at all. What tables are you using? Stantons? Go get yourself some Technics, if you have em, go get em repaired.

Stuart Ramdeen 11:09 PM - 21 July, 2004

Quote:

Go get yourself some Technics, if you have em, go get em repaired.

THEY CAN GO WRONG??

;-)

stu

12micsn1 4:52 PM - 31 July, 2004

Hmm..Staton ST-150 are better then TECHNICS 1200/10 or NUMARKS TTX-1 right now. To much hype going on with Technics from those who swear by them an use nothing other then. With Technics its a been there done that sort of deal..Vestax PDX-2000 long took turntablism to higher ground. Now Staton and Numarks are setting the new standards.

radish 3:12 AM - 2 August, 2004

Quote:

If you have faulty turntables, you shouldn't be djing at all. What tables are you using? Stantons? Go get yourself some Technics, if you have em, go get em repaired.

It's not always as simple as that. Decks in clubs can go wrong, and they don't always have spares on hand (though they damn well should). I remember such an occurance a few years ago, with a little known DJ by the name of Paul Oakenfold being reduced to one deck at a (then) small club called Gatecrasher :)

BassChamber 9:52 AM - 3 August, 2004

i agree with radish, last weekend i had a gig and i was forced to use only one tt (the other was faulty and SSL couldnt calibrate it). and by the way, both were technics 1200.

unfortunately this things happen sometimes. it would be great if SSL helps us to resolve this situations successfully...

Josh 11:49 AM - 3 August, 2004

Quote:

i was forced to use only one tt

There's a great section in the manual for this eventuality...

Quote:

The single turntable technique allows you to mix as if you had two turntables, using just one. If one of your turntables is not performing properly, or if you only have one available, you will be able to continue to mix the way you are used to.
The following is a step-by-step description of mixing using a standard 2-channel mixer, with one turntable set up on the right hand side of the mixer. In this example, all mixing is done with the mixer crossfader.

1. Load a track onto the right deck in Scratch LIVE and play it in Absolute Mode. The crossfader is set to the right hand side.

2. Put the left hand deck into Internal Mode and load a track.

3. Flick the reverse input control switch. The physical record now controls the left hand deck in Scratch LIVE, and the right hand channel of Scratch LIVE plays on in Internal mode.

4. Cue the record and mix in the track. Note that you will be using what feels like the wrong channel of your DJ mixer to do this – the crossfader will be moving away from the turntable.

5. Having completed the first mix, flick the reverse input control switch. The track you just mixed in will play on in Internal Mode, and the physical record is now back to controlling the right hand deck in Scratch LIVE.

6. Load a track on to the right deck in Scratch LIVE, and mix as normal.

7. Flick the reverse input control switch.

8. Load a track on the left deck, and mix - moving the cross fader the wrong way.

9. Flick the reverse input control switch, and repeat.

BassChamber 3:58 PM - 3 August, 2004

yes Josh, fortunately i followed that method and i performed my set without problems (god bless SSL!)

... i just was talking about improving internal mode to make possible to mix without reversing inputs... but to be honest, i have to admit that it is not necessary having the possibility to mix using just one tt.

so forget my previous words 0:)

... the more i use SSL, the more i love it... :)

lo-fi 12:40 PM - 8 August, 2004

I work at a club where the turntables get moved around a lot for different setups. Trust me; Technics go wrong too. They can probably take more beatings than than most other TTs, but eventually, things fall apart.

Back on topic: If I wanted to mix without records I would have gotten Traktor or something. I tried that once for an afternoon, and it's just so much hard work to get two records beatmatched that I never touched that program again. With vinyl (or SSL) any DJ can beatmatch two records without even looking or thinking in about 20 seconds. I can see the point of internal mode for situations where there are no turntables and you just want to keep some tunes going - but without turntables, I'll just play one track after the other, without even trying to mix. So I second the "No bloat" post.

SpinThis! 6:20 PM - 9 August, 2004

i'm been against internal mode for most things, but i wouldn't mind just a basic playlist feature where you're just lounging around and want to throw on some tracks where it would go through them and then you could take control at any point.... like some preparty music or whatever. a lot of people suggested winamp or itunes (myself included) to play tracks like this but
the main reason i'd ask for this is when you got everything plugged in, you need still need your soundcard output and a corresponding input to your system (mixer) which just adds extra bloat (hardware-wise) to your setup. (acting as a soundcard wouldn't be bad either but that still would require much more programming effort.)

skutch 6:55 PM - 9 August, 2004

It seems that most of us will play and generate our track info during practice or at our leisure rather than risking the occasional hiccup during a live set. Wouldnt an internal mode playlist doodad player thingy reduce some of the labor involved in using this supernice program? It would be convienient.
For example, I could be listening to music and clean my room, do the dishes, get a haircut, take a bath, take a dump, take another bath, floss, mastrubate, paint a picture, and play with the cat all while SSL is taking care of business.

Shaun W 8:25 PM - 9 August, 2004

Wow, you're a busy guy Skutch. lol

12micsn1 11:16 PM - 9 August, 2004

How about making a software program like traktor DJ an keep SSL as a realtime program? You can lounge an sit back with the mouse an control everything. Keep in mind your limited if you want more control vs going real time with SSL.

BassChamber 11:32 AM - 10 August, 2004

mmm thats a good point 12micsn1... maybe we need another Serato compatible program (like Traktor dj studio and FS are).

we could use this program to play tracks using our pc/mac sound card, generate playlist, set markers, set coloured labels, edit massive id tags... and import this information to SSL.

i would pay for it, sure!!!

what do you think?

nik39 11:50 AM - 10 August, 2004

Thats a good compromise... I dont want SSL to be bloathed, and if this is an external optional app, thats good!

chubbsta 1:25 PM - 10 August, 2004

Quote:

Thats a good compromise... I dont want SSL to be bloathed, and if this is an external optional app, thats good!

I agree!!!

lo-fi 9:47 AM - 12 August, 2004

My favourite feature suggestion is coming back in this thread:

A (CoreAudio) driver for the SSL interface. Not only would this allow you to digitise vinyl and sample stuff into your software sampler without extra hardware, it would also allow you to turn on iTunes for the moments when you aren't DJing - without having to switch cables around, OR bloating the software.

A workaround could be to have a cable from the headphone out of your laptop to a spare line channel on the mixer. Does that work?

Alexander 2:00 PM - 12 August, 2004

Quote:

A workaround could be to have a cable from the headphone out of your laptop to a spare line channel on the mixer. Does that work?

Yes this does work but the output volume is extremely low!! :(

radish 3:55 PM - 12 August, 2004

Quote:

A workaround could be to have a cable from the headphone out of your laptop to a spare line channel on the mixer. Does that work?

Yes this does work but the output volume is extremely low!! :(

I think you need to turn the volume up on your laptop - an amplified headphone output is actually higher level than line, which is what a CD player or SSL would put out.

Alexander 5:11 PM - 12 August, 2004

I did not know that..even though I have tried the headphone out jack for use with iTunes and I didn't get good results even when I turned up my volume all the way up? I mean I can try this again ...it wouldn't hurt.

radish 7:01 PM - 12 August, 2004

The sound quality won't be great, but you should be able to get it loud enough. If I get a chance I may try it myself tonight.

lo-fi 8:15 PM - 12 August, 2004

Quote:

The sound quality won't be great, but you should be able to get it loud enough. If I get a chance I may try it myself tonight.

I have even played stuff straight off my iPod in clubs, no problem. The output from my PowerBook also goes loud enough.

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