One thing I don't like about the gain adjustment to adjust your pitch control is that SDJ has no mixer view. So if you max out the pitch control on one deck, when you load up another track on that same deck, the pitch control is maxed out, but you can't tell it's maxed out because there is no mixer view, and no way to reset it back to center. If there is, I haven't figured how to reset it. To reset it, I have to use instant doubles to switch the song to the other deck, stop the original deck, then adjust the gain adjustment and try to guess where the center is on the pitch control.

The gain adjustment is another nightmare. I try to set it so the last red led doesn't come on, but it is not very accurate. I can live with that, but there needs to be a way to set the pitch control back to center.

Some sort of visual reference for gain adjustment would be helpful.

I agree, what they need is a full mixer view like Traktor has. That would solve a lot of problems.

Hopefully the great people at Serato will do something about it. ;)

One thing cool thanks to this endless Gain/Trim could be for the "duplicate/double" feature !

I mean when I mix with only one turntable and I do duplicates/doubles the thing that bother me is to readjust the gain after each transition (when the song level changes) !
Now with kind of button SDJ could also assign the same gain to the duplicated deck !!
The only thing that can be improved is to add "led-vu" levels like it is done for the fx knob on the Numark NS7II.

I have the amx and yes, the endless gain knobs are tricky. i hope that serato will do something.

I totally agree with you guys.

The gain-staging is a problem with the endLESS encoder of the AMX. You simply don't feel where you are after loading a new track.

For gain adjustment, an endING rotary knop, is a must. A center click of the encoder is fine, but not a must (my vci-400-gain-knob doesn't have one).

The only solution I can think of to fix it for the AMX: >> Open up MIDI MAPPING:

I would love to map my high-eq-encoder to my gain parameter and to determine (in the software) what the pitch resolution is of my endless encoder above.

Folks from Serato, if you guys are reading this, Will you guys be including a visual gain/trim view based on the mixer movement as a reference in SDJ anytime soon? It'll really help in achieving a better leveling control especially in a quick mix set where sometimes the next track that you're playing takes a dip in volume. The AMX users will definately benefit from this.

Maybe at this time, there is a solution to midi the pitch on a external controller.
I do that for each gain deck with my Akai LPD8

I was at the NAMM show last weekend and the supporting Serato and Akai staff with the product were also a bit confused about the gain adjustment when I pointed it out... It seems this was overlooked in development and obviously the hardware in incapable of being updated but for sure the software can be updated with a visual adjustment dial and a Click to Reset. This would help greatly in the guessing game it is now! My question would be how long until such an update could happen?

Maybe an option to reset gain on each song load?
Or would that not make sense ?

I used amx for some time, it is not such a big issue.use the vu meters guys.

I just try to not touch the gains. But it would be nice to have some visual feedback on the position of the knobs.

nm

tbh, i think the AMX gains should directly control the gains in the software.

+1
^^
Was very dissapointed when used my amx for 1st time and realised the endless gains did this and do not directly control the software gains



+ 1
^^
this is the only practical way to use the unit & is not very satisfactory solution.

Personally would like to see the gains act like they do when playing vinyl / CDs via the dvs plug in but control the software gain when playing MP3 in serato.... A real shame that no one at akai or serato thought about this issue during development, hope that we can see this address in firmware update & we don't have to wait till the AMX mk2 to come out to address this issue.

same here... that's one of the perks of endless knobs.... no matter what song you load, that respective knob can reset itself to reflect the new parameter of any value.

hopefully Serato is watching this and can allow the AMX gains to directly control each deck gain in the software.

I thought the software file gain was saved directly with the file?
Would be really easy to mess up the autogain levels if implemented that way?

it is... but a lot of time the software will still have songs in the red, or there won't be enough gain implemented.

i find myself still adjusting a lot of songs even after being analyzed by auto gain.

it's a lot easier to adjust the software gain with the AMX knob than it is to use the mousepad, especially when your laptop is on the other side of the table.

^^ no because it is endless so when u load a new track the gain would be set to whatever level the track had been previously set to - basically this is how I understand the pitch works on the novation twitch... never owned or used a twitch tho so please correct me if I am wrong here!

True, but the hardware knobs were never ment to adjust the "initial" gain.
Kinda suspecting it would harm more than it would help... Software gains could always be mapped to a third party midi controller, or if your mixer (62/64) has a few unused knobs...

why do you say that? what's the difference in adjusting gain using a mousepad vs knobs?

Previous message was ment for Remix Detroit

@P45, Sorry but you're wrong about gain. The software gain IS saved with the file, you would need to reanalyze the file if you want to revert to autogain level. I do agree that it would be nice with some visual feedback of the rotary gain position. In addition to AMX, I also have the APC40mkII, wich looks like it comes of the same production line, only there you will fin leds around the knobs indicating position. Kinda wished they did that to the AMX too. In the AFX mk2 I guess ;) ...

You're right and this is why they aren't mapped to the deck gain. Every time you adjusted the level it would save to the track and after a few gigs you end up with all your tracks having different levels and it'd be a mess.

The endless encoders are mapped to the deck trim like any other controller, the problem it seems some of you are having is not being able to see what position it's at. On the positive side, because they're endless they default back to a 12 o'clock position on every track load.

I'm my experience, when using autogain at 92db, SDJ is mostly on point without clipping.
Unless you have badly mastered files...

The effort to use the mouse/touch pad is higher than the knob,
so chances are more users are gonna mess up a perfectly good gain setting.

Not used auto gain for years - I set all my levels manually so that would not be an issue for me - but yeah I agree with that this would cause problems for people who use auto gain & then adjusted gains on the fly, which I guess a lot of people do.

@logan - I am not sure that my AMX has not been reverting to "12 o'clock" when new tracks are loaded, I will check in a couple hours when I get home.

Logan,

all of the tracks have different levels anyways. I find that the software doesn't set the gain perfectly.

Serato and Rane have always recommended tracks be in the yellow as much as possible without clipping into the red, to get the most robust sound from the track as possible without distortion.

i end up having to adjust a lot of my tracks because many of them are completely in the green. and i also get a few tracks that are clipping even though auto gain has been implemented.

couldn't you guys have an option to leave it up to the user whether or not they want their endless gain knobs to directly control the deck?


and i still see no difference in adjusting the gains using the mousepad vs the endless knobs.... if you guys were so worried about our gains being a mess, then why allow us to adjust gains in the first place?

not trying to be rude or sarcastic, but just honestly asking, because it doesn't make sense.

Then that's a completely different issue. If it's not working perfectly for you then either you need to double check you're using it correctly, or we need to see if we can improve it. The solution isn't to just add this control to hardware.


We could, but who wants to map them to the deck gains though? I don't quite understand what that achieves other than making a huge mess out of your library. Sure, if we get lots of requests for it then by all means we can look into it but I feel like the issue here is not being able to see the absolute position of the encoder rather than the sudden need to control the deck auto-gains.


The difference is accessibility. All of sudden we would be replacing one of the most fundamental controls of a DJ mixer with something that individually adjusts the level of the track every time you use it. For what reason? The end result is that you adjust the track output (like it was already doing) except now it is saved to the track. You certainly wouldn't want to use these to mix in that case (i.e turn them full down) as the next time you load the track you'd get no sound and have to remember to turn it back up.


No problem at all, it's good to discuss these things!

as long as tracks loaded reset to 12 o clock, it's kinda "ok"


would be good to see position of AMX gain knob in software too

this is where you lose me.... i see your argument if we were talking about standard knobs with limits....

but limitless knobs wouldn't make a mess of anything....

again, most mixers don't have limitless knobs, so your point is valid there.

but when it comes to the AMX and midi controllers, with limitless knobs, mapped to the deck gains... you're not making any sense.

ok cool... You're actually one of the mods I like around here... so I don't want you to think I'm giving you shit...lol

Wrong, you could still potentially mess up your gain levels saved to the file. If boosted to much, it would distort even before hitting the mixer when running other hardware. (like an SL box or serato qualified mixer, or any other controller for that matter.) It would need a rewrite in software, one that would not be such an elegant solution IMO.

Gotta agree on this one...

Not trying to be sarcastic myself, but do you actually know how the track (auto)gain function in SDJ works? It's a PRE gain, trying to ensure the INPUT of the mixer channel is as hot as possible, without clipping. (being either hardware or software mixer as in the AMX case). The channel gain/trim is applied AFTER this. What you are basically asking is to merge these two functions, or loose one of them. This feature request would seriously mess up gain structure.

Basically to not make a mess of this, serato would need to make up a GUI for the internal software mixer. (Not saying that's a good idea....!)

The AMX is what it is, for the price that's what AKAI delivered, and to be honest it's quite workable IMO. However, I probably would'nt use it on a large system myself, I prefer a "grown up mixer", like a 62/64/djm900 for the club and bigger events....

ok, that makes sense to me now.... i never saw it that way or had it explained to me that way either. but now that you phrase it like that, it makes sense now.

thanks for explaining it to me.

Haha thanks homie!

now heres my next question, why do tracks from the same pool/source get set up differently in the software? for example, some tracks will be in the green while some tracks will be in the red, even though the auto gain is set to 92.

Sure, it's all good Remix :D

Probably bad mastering, ie loudness war, no room for dynamics, just brick wall comprossors all over....

logan

gains on my AMX are NOT defaulting back to 12 o'clock when i load a new track - has there been a firmware update I have missed ? i am using 1.7.3

thanks

As far as I can tell, they default to 12 for pitch (0% percent),
but keep their setting for gain, basically what I would expect them to do....

that seems to be what is happening for me as well but from what logan said it sounded to me like he was implying the gain would/should return to 12 o/clock like the pitch does….

the problem i am having here stems from the fact that gain knobs on a mixer are normaly end-ing and normally have a 12 o'clock marking on them as standard - that way if you adjust the gain on a track it is easy to get the next track at the correct volume when you load it (assuming the software gain has been set correctly in serato or you are happy with the auto gain in serato)

because the AMX has endless encoders for gains, plus the led gain indicators are not very accurate & there is no indication in software of where the gain is - it is very difficult to correctly set gain when dropping tracks / quick mixing etc

just found a quick work around tho, so though i would share it here for anyone else having this issue - i have swapped the cue mix and cue gain knobs with the gain/pitch knobs, just make sure you line the gains up on each channel exactly to 12 o'clock before you connect the AMX to computer

P45, I'm pretty sure this would be a much less of a problem if you analyze your tracks with the autogain on.

warpnote - good point you may be correct, basically i was un-happy with auto gain and have not used it for several years……. only problem which swapping the knobs seems to cause is if you use the shift&gain to adjust pitch then the nobs are pointing to the wrong place for the pitch but i have been hitting CMD + INT to re-set the pitch to zero… but this is not ideal

might be time to try to the auto-gain again in near future, but before i do that I am going to try the Knob Swap work around for a while as I have been very happy without auto-gain on my 62 and SL3.

perhaps Logan can chime in here to confirm if the gain on the AMX should (or perhaps will in future) revert to 12 when a track is loaded ?…... because as music lee says above this would be "OK" (better than the knob swap work around IMHO) and then hopefully it could be improved further with a gain display on screen at some point in the future…….

cheers

I honestly disagree on the 12o'clock reset for gain. I mix with both the cross fader and the upfaders. I normally set my gain properly during the start of a gig, then normally raise the gain somewhat during the night, both for channel gain, master gain, and monitor gain. (when running a club mixer.)

When mixing, I raise the channel faders full regardless of gain. If gain is reset for each track, then you would need to regain very closely for each track, not very efficient and not "OK".

A normal gain knob on a mixer stays at the position it is set to, and is not reset between tracks, and the AMX follows the same logic. (I beleive logan was referring to the "pre-gain" in software being reset, ie saved to the file itself.)

Been using auto-gain at least since SSL 2.2.2 up to current SDJ version with SL4, 68, 64, 62, DDJ-SX, DDJ-SZ, AMX, 900SRT. (probably before that too, with the SL1) There were issues at some point, but those were ironed out, and been very consistent since.

Cheers :-)

warpnote - understand what you are saying and on the basis that all other DJ mixers keep their position i do agree with you. TBH i think that if we could see the gain level on screen this would not be an issue for either of us.

I don't increase gains when i want more volume over the course of a night I like to set the software gain on the track to just below clipping and do the same on the mixer gain and then use the master to push more volume out when needed- means i have to set the software gain once and once only and don't have to adjust gains very often - i think that if the AMX had 1) better LED indicators for each channel and 2) an display on screen to show the mixer's gain position it would basically work like every other mixer and both of us would be happy..

cheers

Yup agree, far as I know the AMX is the first Serato hardware with those endless gains.
Would love to see the leds from the APC endless rotaries on the AMX. -> 6be54c364949b623a3c0-4409a68c214f3a9eeca8d0265e9266c0.r0.cf2.rackcdn.com
Maybe for an mk2 in a few years ?

Out of curiosity, do you run the AMX in the club or at events? And if so do you run it into another club mixer/line mixer? Mine has been staying in my home studio for now.

have used it directly into pioneer 900 at a club (other DJ was using an SL3) and it sounded fine. have also used thru the aux in on a 57 at a large concert and it sounded fine (but i had to crank the aux input quite high)

but i have not yet used it direct into a sound system apart from my house

Thanks, appreciate it :-)

Maybe those LED's from APC could be added to SDJ somehow only when you plugin the AMX ?

Highly doubt it, if there is one thing serato strives for, then it's continuity (and ease of use).
A special gui for the AMX, I don't se it coming ;-)

I've been using the AMX with DJ Player for iOS for a while and have been testing out an alternative mapping. All I can say this works way better for me.

Posted it here: serato.com
- long post warning! -

So I'm patiently waiting for MIDI mapping for native devices.. ;)

35 years is that I'm a dj . I bought it to use again the technics 1200. Who designed it never made the dj. Gein infinite ... that nonsense.

HELP .... IVE BROKE A GAIN POT ... ANYONE NO WHERE I CAN BUY A REPLACEMENT ??

With auto gain, I rarely touch the gains - I adjust the files when needed.

Seems to me the Gain should be behind the Shift. So the knob is normally Pitch control.

Visual reference would be best.

I can't see how anyone could use those VUs for anything.

Hey all,

Have been using the units for 3 or 4 months now as a small footprint, on the road set up. Very simple set up and no turntable type requirements, straight selecting from a wide variety of genres.

I'm def finding that a visual reference in the UI for the gain setting would be helpful. I use all the regular references - meters, faders and cue mix/ph's. Even with this feedback, the volumes levels can be all out of whack and I'll be turning gain up or down to compensate.

It seems most other functions in the UI are reactive to the unit e.g. FX level, track selection, cue settings, loop points etc etc.

The gain level is already displayed in the SDJ layout. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be latched to the units gain knob. It seems the only secondary function is pitch with shift held down, so it doesn't appear that there would be problem in that regard.

The level could reset to 12 o'clock when a track is loaded but then be responsive to the unit for adjustments. This would get around the issue of volume writing.

Wondering if Serato would find this a function for updates?

Cheers

+1

+1