Fuck that.

People buy more of the artists music I play cuz I tell what it is when they come up to the booth and ask me. Just last night I facilitated a sale of Matthew Wilder's "Break My Stride" on iTunes when some chick came up to the booth and downloaded it as soon as I told her what it was.

Isn't that how its supposed to work?

How they give you a price to pay when they don't even know what music u are playing?

from ASCAP

12. Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?

Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.

I couldn't find any information about any upcoming DJ fee's.

I've dealt with a "representative" (another club owner) stopping by and trying to find out if the club was paying ASCAP fees or not. Sounds suspect...

lakecharlesdjs is correct. It is the club's responsibility to pay those fees.

Just to clarify, I never said anything about the bars passing on the fees to the dj.

^^ that's what it sounded like to me.. but I knew clubs have to pay.. I thought you meant he came to YOU and was like give me 1500..

Clubs have to pay, if music is being played by a DJ or not a DJ.

Part of the money is paid to artists based on radio play and sales based on the assumption - the more popular the song, the more club play it gets.

It's not just clubs and bars.

The ASCAP/BMI "Music Police" go around to anyplace with an "installed sound system" and hit the owners/management up for "annual fees". That includes stores, restaurants, gyms, anyplace open for business to the public and playing music through anything besides a portable player.

Even noncomercial/educational radio stations (like the 10-watt station we had in my high school) get extortion letters and sometimes visits from them.

extortion - yes thats the word I was about to use

Where the 'representives' names something along the line of jimmmy knuckles and franky the bat

name one DJ who has paid.

Recap.... Clubs, bars... they are supposed to pay. Oh, and mobile DJ's too.

is that why most mobiles use xponents??? ;) LULZ

people are misreading what i originally posted.
i wasnt trying to say they want the dj's to pay.
obviously the bars/clubs gotta pay, but what i'm saying is a bar shouldnt have to pay this fee if they have a dj.
and i'm frustrated because now i may be out of a gig i JUST took less than a month ago, because they are scared and don't want to pay.

It does not mater if there is a DJ or not.

I'm saying TO ME, a dj is promoting music. Yes we make money. And the bar/club makes money, but we are not necessarily making money off the music in the way that, say a jukebox is. We are making money off the clientelle we bring in.

The bar/club has to pay if there is a DJ, a juke box, ipod, whatever - Its because music is playing - not because there is a DJ

It has nothing to do with if a DJ is there or not - its the music playing

The fees they're trying to collect are for "public performance of recorded works through an installed sound system".

If the bar was playing FM radio through their sound system, the ASCAP/BMI "Music Police" would still be trying to collect.

Dropping DJ's (or hiding the DJ in the office) would have no bearing on the fees.

Nobody here is likely to disagree with your logic.

The ASCAP/BMI choose to see the situation differently, and use it as an opportunity to collect money by more or less overt intimidation.

This is where Muzwack comes in... they pay ASCAP/BMI fees.

ASCAP is a law. You have to pay it if you're a bar. If you're not, you're breaking the law. This bar should pay it, and pay it now.

Well being that they already have a jukebox anyways, i doubt they are gonna pay it.

the only way around having performers in public and not having to pay ascap is to have a band that plays all original songs.

or a DJ who plays only his own records he produced

people need to remember that the persons who are paid by ASCAP and other PROs are not necessarily the musicians- they are the composers of the songs. Composers basically get paid for either public performance (radio play, club play, etc.) or for sales via mechanical royalties. This is what keeps composers in the business of song writing.

You could argue that how the fees collected by ASCAP etc. are divided among its members has problems (and it does for smaller/indie kind of stuff) but composers do deserve to get paid and this is how the copyright law in most countries has established an income stream for them.

Exactly! Well put Tune. A lot of Dj's don't understand that ASCAP is a good thing. Especially for DJ's/Producers. Let''s use DJ Homocide for example. He was considered a band member and writer for Sugar Ray. Which means he owns a portion of the publishing. Since the Album went multi platnium he was entitled to royalties. ASCAP probably cuts him PHAT check every quarter till this day. Pharell probably never has to work another day in his life. I'm sure his checks are insane!

If you get ASCAP/BMI/SESAC checks, yes its all good.

But if you are a struggling venue that doesnt play any popular records that shake down is no good.

Even if DJs don't pay directly, our earnings will be cut into by these fees (its like an employer being required to pay for health insurance; those employees don't "pay" for it, but they sure take home less as a result).

I'm gonna write TRU reality TV channel and have them start a show about ASCAP enforcers - kinda like Repo and Dog the Bounty Hunter. Can't you see em roughing up the shystie promoters and owners...?

It's a digital protection racket, brought about because of the fuzzy nature of music related copyright law. Nobody knows who should be paying what to who. It's just one big utterly confusing mess.

Somebody needs to sit down and write down in simple clear terminology what rights you have as a music buyer (or licencee as the case may be), as a venue owner, a DJ and as an original artist. It all seems like an overcomplicated mess to me, and because of this, the various licencing organisations get to make mad money with no clear track on how the collected monies gets back to the original artist.

If it was clear and fair they couldnt run the racket.

Huge chunks of that publishing money goes straight to the majors.

I wonder if thats why alot of the bars in our area hire mobile DJs to come in and play. Since we bring in our own sound system and there isnt one installed in the venue then they dont have to pay this fee correct??

Well all club's and bar's should be paying.if the club your a resident at is telling u they have to pay,thats probley cuz the wasnt paying anyway.but $1500 for a year is nothing compared to what these clubs and bars makes.this just goes to show you how fucking cheap these bastards are.trying to hide you in a office.but they dont understand that its any music they play.let it be. radio/jukebox/dj/ipod.what i think is thay the bar you work just got a juke box and they have to pay for it.and they asked them why and they told them why.any place you see with a jukebox installed pays this fee even fatburger pays this.

I think the fee is built into whatever fee they pay to the jukebox company, but i dont think it covers them having a dj.