I've read most of your ideas on your other threads and some of them I like such as the ability to see cues, loops, and flips at the same time although I think it will be hard to fit all them on the screen at once without it seeming cramped especially on smaller screens like my own 14". So a good solution I considered was giving the three sections the same behavior as the FX tab, REC tab, etc. and let the user toggle multiple tabs on and off as they wish.

The things I'm indifferent on are the way that you want to do the label based off the beatgrid rather than the traditional TT RPM. I can see it being a useful feature (especially for beat juggles) but I'd rather that be an option than a permanent change.

The thing I'm opposed to is your change of direction with which the waveform moves. That way seems counterintuitive to me and doesn't make much sense at all.

except the mentioned strange approach for the track moving direction, might be missunderstanding, I like the concept.

what I would love to see from serato is in general two things:

1. make the total wave form view bigger. It´s ridiculous small and unbelievable hard to see.
(not the moving one, the static one where you see breaks, next cues...)
2. please add a cover art view on the decks like in traktor. there is room for this and it just helps me as I see an accidental wrong loaded track in a deck immediately.

Hi guys... I appreciate the honest comments

I would urge you to look this drawing over very carefully if you have the time. A lot more has been changed than what immediately catches the eye. The GUI has been simplified considerably, yet has much greater functionality and a cleaner more logical workflow. Also, I want you to feel free to submit your own ideas for improvement, and maybe I can find time later on to revise the concept even further by incorporating your input.

Without addressing each point separately, I'll just say that it would appear that we are in agreement on most points ... and on the couple that we aren't, these could and should be made optional.

Change is difficult for some. Many of us just like to stay with something that we are familiar with. It takes a long time to learn a habit, and a long time to change them also. It's a lot of work, and most people would rather stay with something they know, if it works for them. I understand that!

Regarding the correction of direction for the moving waveform: This one point, I want to address specifically.

First of all, as I said before, this needs to be made optional, as even though it is backward now, many people are used to the configuration, and it works fine for them. And I say good for them, but it doesn't work at all for me and some others.

Secondly, it's important to understand that it is backward now. I'll try to explain it here as simply as possible:
When you push the record (or platter on cheaper controllers) forward (clockwise/rightward), the hand on the Serato clock (virtual sticker/record) also moves clockwise/rightward. This is correct.., however the waveform (which represents the record groove moving under the needle) moves leftward under the virtual needle, or "backward" to put it in plain parlance.

Try this simple exercise to prove what I'm saying: Push the right (+) pitch bend button to accelerate the track, and notice that the waveform will move not to the right as you would logically expect, but to the left (negative) direction. Accordingly, if you push the left button, it will (queerly enough) move rightward. Or, simply move the record (or platter on your controller) rightward, and watch the waveform move leftward.

Now, I am an engineer, and in my occupation every little detail has to work together perfectly in harmony, so this kind of thing just makes me crazy. Like a splinter under my fingernail, it's always right there in my face, wearing my nerves raw at a time when I should be able to enjoy myself.

As I say, this should be made optional. Virtual DJ received enough complaints that they provided the option years ago. I am not suggesting a permanent change. Most people are heard animals by nature, and tend to follow what everyone else is doing. People in England drive on the wrong side of the road, and they like it that way! They think we are doing it backward over here... Not everyone will want this, but I think that most of you would find that you liked it a lot once you've tried it.

I like it but would have reservations in how it would be displayed on a smaller 13" screen.

If I boot up Serato with a 1080p external screen I see all that lovely real estate but with a lower resolution set I see much less. I'm not sure how that would fit.

Nice ideas though DJ Demolition :)

My six year old laptop has a 19" diagonal display, and I don't even use it anymore because I've gone to a mini-tower & dual 20" screens in my coffin lid. Maybe I have a penchant for the grandiose (?), but I hate the feeling of being cramped, restricted, or under-equipped.

I don't get why they do it, but I realize there are Djs out there working out of mini-notebooks, and even using i-phones & i-pads for the whole kit. For those who like to travel light, or who can't afford to upgrade their equipment, the solution is simple. The GUI should be made auto adaptable, so that the extra sample decks, etc., become available when increased resolution is detected. Not a big deal.., as many programs already possess that capability.

Meanwhile, all the other improvements that do not require any extra room will always be there for everyone's benefit, regardless.

Thank you for your comments Mr Wilks. There are probably several changes in the drawing that may have eluded your cognizance. If you are interested and have the time, you can go to the Remix album here on Flicker: www.flickr.com , and compare the old and new side by side.

Thanks again for your time and attention. I look forward to hearing your own ideas for improvement.

I think we do need a bit of a re-jig of the current interface and getting more information on screen in a clear and legible way is a must. More features added means more new buttons.

I miss the view from 1.3 lots. It had the loops and cues on the screen perfectly.

I'll have a look through your other designs. Hopefully they'll inspire Serato's GUI designers when the next interface tweak comes.

Absolutely!

Ah well, not necessarily... I added several new features, and actually removed buttons. I did add one control menu of my own in an area where space is wasted (on all resolutions). Can you find it? :)

Yes, I don't know why they felt the need to make such a mess of things. Regarding the area availible for loops and cues: personally, I almost never use the manual loop table/menu. I don't know about everyone else, but for my use, I'd be happy to be able to toggle it off and make more productive use of the space there.

Thanks. I value your input.

Obviously. :) I have stretched the waveforms vertically almost double their original size in my modified drawing, however they still look too small.

Done. See here: www.flickr.com Let me know if that is what you are looking for.

the last version of the GUI is approved :)

I would prefer to have the cover art closer at the decks, but as you painted it it would be sufficient as well.

+100 !!

Uploaded the Clock Legend here: www.flickr.com

Explains the "clock" colors, menus, etc... for those interested.

love it.

Hi,

I wonder how could I use 2 screens?

One for the general stuffs (all could be extended) and another, probably smaller one (and rotated 90 degrees) for the browsing and the cover art.

This would be great with my NS7 II (I already have a 23" AIO with FHD screen)
Since I'm from the analog side the cover art and the big row of the albums are a must for me.

I agree the interface needs upgrading to be more modern or flexible, but i wouldn't use a definitive term like useless etc. That seems like an arrogant / ignorant expression used to define something that is quite useable for many people.

I've read all the above posts, some of the points you make are valid and others are utter rubbish. I like and use the sweeping hand and don't want a coloured circle to cloud my view.

Sure the vertical wave forms could be larger or longer but that should be dependant on your screen resolution.

I also use mix emergency . serato video and all that "wasted" is actually utilized for preview windows for each deck.



Thats just my 2 cents....

Arrogant, maybe... Ignorant, ...no.

Seriously, now... I don't know of anyone who actually uses the cue color wicking clock hand feature to find cues. There may be some who do, but if so, they are a minority. Granted, it's a cute novelty item, but not nearly as accurate and failsafe as simply watching the cue come up on the waveform. On the other hand, I am proposing an option that anyone can use (or not), and everyone can benefit from.


Hmmm... So I'm "arrogant and ignorant" because some things I say are "utter rubbish"... Maybe you'd care to elaborate further as to what specific "points" you are referring to in those allegations? I'm spending my valuable time trying to help, here. What are you doing..?


If that concerns you, note that the color shading is only active during the selected cue notification range, ...and further, the first item on that menu is"Off", ...which should satisfy anyone who shares your opinion.


I don't believe there is any practical way to increase their length without decreasing the size of the "clocks". I personally like the larger clock size, so I'm willing to accept that particular trade-off. Larger, though..? Definitely.


I won't go into my thoughts on trying to mix videos professionally on one monitor, but obviously for those who wish to do so, it should be easy enough for Serato to set the program up to default back to the current configuration when in video mode... There's no valid reason for the rest of us (80+%) to have to suffer with this lame configuration in the meantime.

Thanks for your thoughts.

We are ALL in agreement that MOST DJ's use laptops only to DJ (even with video) correct? The dual screen or larger external screen is not the majority by any means.

EXACTLY

I don't know what you guys are using, but my laptop has a wide HD 19" screen, and it's not the latest tech by any means... it's seven years old.

For my everyday life and everything BUT music I use my PC laptops. When it comes to music which is my work I use four MacBook Pro's. The oldest one I have is 2012 so 15" is the largest option I have.

Everyone seems to be under the impression that a Mac is the only thing that will work reliably with music software. I've been using Windows and AMD chips for years, with no hiccups at all. Take it for what it's worth...

Not like I haven't used them. I used to use Windows. I did for years as well. As a matter of fact I had a Toshiba Satellite with an AMD Turion 64 processor that worked with SSL. The thing is when I went with Mac things did a little more than just work is all. My experience has nothing to do with hype and all to do with personal experience.

I always had to optimize and tweak with my Windows laptops.

Now I am able to use DVS at 1 ms with ALL expansion packs including Pitch N Time with no issues whatsoever. I never got below 5 ms with my Windows PC's.

Trust when I say I tend to try it ALL!!! www.dropbox.com this was just the Pioneer family portrait LOL. My Numark, Rane & Native Instruments gear was not invited that day haha.

Was supposed to link www.dropbox.com

NOT a hater though andNOT trying to hi-jack your thread so by all means go with what works for you.


The floor is yours again. Sorry for the delay. LOL

Well, you have a point about the "tweaking".. You need to be a bit of a gear-head, if you;re going to run an AMD machine. It's a little like owning a Harley ...helps a lot if you are a mechanic also... Meanwhile the Goldwing riders run coast to coast with no worries.

I run my AMD mini-tower at 2ms. It will run at 1 with no issues, but the CPU light blinks on every now and then, so I run it at 2 just to be safe. But then again, it's almost five years old, too...

You have to go with what works for you. BTW, I'm not current on the Mac offerings, but I know that the graphic arts people are big on them also, so surely they (Apple) offer something with plenty of resolution and real estate? I wouldn't think you'd be limited there.

Nice collection you have... :) Impressive. More than some (many) music stores have in stock!

It's a sickness really haha. Lotta fun though.

Still jam out on my first mixer ever though (An American Audio Shredder) & TT's every now & then though to get back to my roots. I have my little methods I could not live without and I see you are an inventive person who is not afraid to think outside the box. Some good stuff in here. I would be all for some change on the GUI & layout side but it would have to a slow transition.

Lastly you said it somewhere in there but user selectable and the ability to revert or deactivate any given feature or layout is key. In my eyes it is the difference between an idea being useful and dangerous. Keep up the good work brotha man!!

I know... I have the same disease/addiction. You should see my collection. Great minds think alike... ;)

Haha, me too... Mine's a GLI with a rotary crossfader. That's vintage, you have to admit.

Exactly. I don't want changes forced on me, nor anyone else. If it doesn't work for everyone, it just doesn't work. Feel free to offer any suggestions you might have. I'd like to get everything worked into this drawing, before I inevitably get sidetracked by something else.

Gotta hit the bed now, but it's been good talking with you.

The problem here is that you assume that your personal preferences are something that everyone else also wants. Most people are satisfied with the UI as it is and I believe (though cannot confirm) that most people also prefer SDJ UI to ITCH.

I agree with having the cues, loops and flips displayed better to take advantage of the empty space in the UI but don't think the other suggestions would make the UI better.

In my opinion the UI is good but I see the icons of the FX and SP-6 tabs as the biggest problem. These icons are unnecessarily big in my opinion and when both the FX and SP-6 tabs are opened, the screen looks cluttered and this is when you start to think that SSL looked better. Otherwise I think SDJ looks just as good as SSL.

So, it doesn't bother you that the static waveforms are unnecessarily positioned so far away from the moving waveforms, or that they are so thin that the important details are invisible?

It doesn't bother you that the programmers were so sloppy that they didn't even place the pointers in the proper location? I could go on, but I suppose you'd just say anything I mentioned was merely my "personal preference"?

I disagree by 100%.

first: demolition forces nobody and just states his opinion, wishlist, improovement suggestions
second: as you can see in the thread: others agree to this as it´s not black and white. not anybody hates the GUI of SDJ, not anybody loves the GUI of ITCH....personal preferences I would say. (I came from Traktor a month ago, never used ITCH.....and agree with demolition!)

at the end:
such threads (to point out NOT political written) are worthfull for Serato.
Getting ideas, collecting opinions of different users....

If you are 100% happy with the GUI of SDJ: fine!
But just due to this there is no "problem" if somebody else has a different opinion.

I´m pretty fresh here, just a month in the Serato game, and can already say: I´ve read no bullshit from demolition so far, seems a pretty fair and experienced user.

I agree. The ONLY disagreement I had was when I though he was assuming 80% of DJ's use dual monitors or larger external displays to do video or just DJ. Other than that a fresh perspective is welcomed. Would I want ALL his ideas..................... NO. Then again some seem nice and I say take it to the masses and see how it plays out............................ which is EXACTLY what he is doing here.

I don´t want all his ideas.
I make a bet he wouldn´t like all my ideas.

but he has good ones worth to think about!

It´s anyway the nature of DJing that nobody loves by 100% the ideas of somebody else.
It´s just too much workflow related in most cases.

Amen to that!!!

Thanks guys. You have it 100% right.

I know I come off sounding a little harsh sometimes when I'm talking about aspects of the software and the developers that bug me. Don't let that give you the wrong idea. It should be made clear that there are also features of Serato software that are top notch. For instance, the beautifully detailed color coded waveforms. Serato was first to market with these, and in my opinion they are still far ahead of the pack in that respect.

The reason I called this exercise a "remix", is because that's exactly what it is for me. When you remix a track, fundamentally you take the best attributes of the song and make the most of them, while weeding out the less desirable aspects. If you have a track with a beautiful vocal track but the music is lousy, then you synthesize new instruments, and do the overlay. If the music is good vs the vocals, then you minimize the vocals and maximize the instrumental aspect, or get someone who can actually sing to make a new vocal track.

That's what I'm trying to do here. ...I know what I like, and what I don't like. I have already (virtually) effected those changes. And as you can see, all my changes are optional! If Serato will follow my suggestions, users who prefer it the old way can have their wish.

Now I'm waiting to see what bright ideas other DJs can provide me with. Sometimes the results can be surprising. For example; I'm not really an "album art" kind of guy since I don't need to dig through my record cases anymore. And I was of the opinion that it would take away from the professional look of the Serato interface. But Heltino suggested it, so I tried it. And you know... I think I really like it that way. So everyone needs to pitch in with the best ideas from their own personal wish lists, and hopefully someone there at Serato will actually take notice of our efforts and make some of these changes a reality.

Thanks again.

The static waveforms in horizontal mode and vertical mode are close to the moving wave forms and IMO display the needed information well. The static waveforms in the extended mode however are a bit more problematic indeed. You are right in this. I just haven't noticed it before as I don't use the extended mode. At the moment I also use a 21 inch iMac for home DJ practice so the static wave forms for vertical and horizontal mode with smaller displays might also be too small to see and therefore maybe I'm not the best person to comment on this (Only used ITCH and SSL with my 13 inch MBP).

Anyway not trying to bash anything here just participating in the discussion for feature suggestions and giving a (partly) disagreeing opinion. I think you are right about the cues, loops and flips being displayed better on the UI and that the static wave forms could benefit from enhancements.

I believe we will see some UI improvements in updates soon as there has been a lot of discussion about the SDJ UI. Maybe in the 1.8.

It's interesting how tastes are different...
While you (DJ Demolition) think your GUI is the best I think it's the worst I've ever seen ;)
No offense though. I just really don't like it.

BTW:

I personally know 8 DJs personally using DVS (4 on Serato DJ, 2 on Scratch Live, 1 on Traktor, 1 on Virtual DJ). 7 of them use a 13" MacBook Pro, one is using a 15" MacBook Pro.

And as far as Youtube videos and Facebook pictures go it seems like 99.9% of DJs are using a MacBook Pro that is only available in 13" and 15" configurations. It's kinda like an industry standard that Serato HAS TO go with.

You can't be serious..? There is nowhere near the amount of detail visible in SDJ's VM, vs Itch. But if you really do like it, I reckon that's fine. On the other hand, there are those of us out here who don't, and would like to have another option.


Every DJ operates differently. To some of us who like to remix live, etc., being able to see every little detail in the track in real-time is invaluable. Then there are DJs who basically only use the display for the track library functionality. The software needs to be flexible enough to accommodate everyone's needs.



In that case, good to have you on-board. Do you have any specific ideas or requests that haven't already been covered or modified to your satisfaction?


With all due respect.., I don't think we'll get anywhere at all with that line of thinking. I've seen variations of that same old tired line, thousands of times here on this forum from the believers. They live in a fantasy world. In reality, however, we usually don't get what we need until a year or so after Traktor or VDJ customers already have it, and Serato is then shamed into adding those features to their own software.

What I'm trying to do here, is develop something that we can all agree on, so we can present it to Serato (or another company, if need be), and tell them "this is what we want!" That way, they can no longer say they didn't know exactly what we needed, and it gives them a template to work from.

Some of the (Serato) development team's ideas are good. Great, even... but there's no way they can anticipate every DJ's needs as well as the thousands of working Djs who are out there working the clubs and parties every week. Bottom line: if we aren't proactive enough to pull together something we approve of, and present our demands and expectations. Then we will most likely get what we deserve, and deserve what we get.

serkan, it would be much more beneficial to this discussion, if you could explain specifically what exactly you don't like, and why you don't like it.

IMO I think you should put your efforts in the opposite direction. As most and I mean MOST (as in I have yet to meet ANY DJ's using anything but their laptops) DJ's don't use anything larger than 15". For this reason I feel you should work your layout/GUI ideas as if everyone is using small screens if for no other reason than the fact that people can now relate.


THEN when you lock in some ideas (which I believe you have the know how to you can start working on the externals & larger screens.


Not for nothing I feel most are getting the wrong idea and taking the wrong approach here. DJ Demolition is coming up with ideas on his own............... presenting them............ asking for feedback............. altering based on said feedback................ all the while taking the criticism and trying to use it positively. Some of the criticism is borderline unfair too.

Not for nothing it seems to me that if nothing else DJ Demolition has the know how to get his/other individuals ideas from his/their head to an actual graphic which can be priceless.

IMO we should be using this thread to put our heads together and come up with some ideas we all like. If you don't like something.................. be specific. I myself should follow this advice as well.

@ Demolition I think you have been plenty helpful and I thank you thus far and I am wondering if the above seems fair and accurate? Also would you be on board for kind of getting everyone's ideas together and maybe getting some concepts out this way?

Not for nothing I myself came into this thread with the attitude of "who do you think you are?". Not saying that is what others are saying but I am bringing it up because I am glad I stopped, took a breath and reassessed what Demolition was really trying to do here. He is not trying to change everyone's world by taking away things they like or use. He is coming up with ideas that he feels could help all the while asking for others feedback to better communicate to Serato what we all want...................

Don't believe me check his posts. I lost count of the times he flat out asked for our feedback and Ideas.........................

deejdave, you have it all figured out perfectly. No way I could have said it better myself.

Yes, most people initially think I'm cocky, and feel the urge to snipe at me. I'm used to that. I'm not a politician looking for votes, but I am the guy you want to be with, when a fight breaks out and the odds are against you. I have a feeling you are the same kind of individual, since you've not been shy about picking up my slack here on this thread when I'm not online. Thanks.

As you say, I do have the technical skills and experience to pull this off, if people can just get past their prejudice, and will consent to join in with some thoughtful, honest ideas & discussion. I am not the enemy ...but even the enemy can be your friend, if he can take you where you want to go.

This software is holding me back, and I want to see some changes made. But then again... if other people are already satisfied......

I like the sp8 view but I even would like to go further and have a dedicated panel for the "remix/sp16". This panel will only have the 4 x 4 sampler/player slots + the library view (no decks view). And like the remix decks, the library will introduce a new kind of "remix/sp16" playlists.

We all agree that the Traktor remix decks are awesome and could bring some nice music production skills to djs (which will btw leverage the music production business ).
Native Instrument has dedicated production hardwares (maschine) and the F1 is a perfect introduction for this feature.

Now Serato has a music production partner: AKAI ! So what will be as perfect as a dedicated Akai mpc controller for serato !!! a kind of AFX pro!

Serato has no choice! the future of SDJ goes mandatory through a remix deck feature, and it will be a lot of fun with larger areas using it!

We just have to be patient...

I don´t agree on that.
I´ve changed after more than 5 years with Traktor to Serato.
The main reason, beside the low end hardware approach of these guys, was the remix deck focus!

Traktor is going more and more in the direction of producing and DJing is more and more a "side function" of this.

We have to see here the facts:
It´s a different traget group.

If you are a booked DJ that has a dedicated 60 minutes set with a dedicated music genre and you can prepare your set list days prior the gig:
YES, the remix decks gives you new options!

But by my experience: I´ve used the remix decks not at all.
To use them requires preparation and training. And this "song based".
As a mobile and wedding DJ this is total useless.
I have no prepared set list, I have no dedicated music genre.
"on the fly" you can use the remix decks very limited. In that case it is like the SP6.
Only advantage you have here, that is missing in the SP6, is to add loops on the fly out of a running track into a slot.

At the same time Native Instruments is pushing this hardly into this direction.
The possibilities of the remix decks are a real overkill. Who in hell needs 64 sample slots within a DJ set? (just as example)
The new Traktor S8 is the proofen status.
No jogs, no real pitchfader (the workaround solution is just bullshit, tested it...sucks and is unusable. I managed no manual beatmatching at all in an acceptable time frame).
At the same time there is still no flexible beat grid so this device is 100% dedicated for quantized music. No flex grid means no preparation of non quantized music, no real manual beat match options means it is not even possible to do by hand.

I real appreciate that Serato is looking for the general DJing and NOT following this approach in total.
For me DJing is much more as the on the fly remix of tracks. I like to feel the music (what is pretty boring if all is 100% prepared and scripted or synced in the backround without the possibility to "touch" your music at all). I like the reaction of the crowd if you drive a party with classical tracks, mixing different genres and just "play on the actual demand of the party" playlist instead of "I know since two days track number three to through in at 4.31 minutes on bar 34" DJing.

By my experience nobody gives a monkey if you remix a track on the fly. The crowd likes the track or not. As you can purchase plenty of remixes for each track, they do not even notice if this was made by you or purchased. At the end the music counts and not the technology behind.

There is of course a market for the producing/remixing stuff and there is guys who real rocks this. But this is a limited group of DJs. I know not a single one who is doing it in a live scenario. Traktor users play with this at home around...maybe use it a little...but nobody is doing it like in the marketing videos of NI. Never seen it on normal gigs, even in special EDM clubs I´ve seen this very rarely.

"the future of DJing" is

a) nothing a single company can decide
b) absolutly nothing that is straight focused on one approach

Try to rock a wedding or mobile party gig with Traktor S8 and try to do this with a good Serato setup (SX, SZ, NS7...).

You´ll notice:
- what is real a heavy used function, the search within the collection and the preparation of playlist, is much better in Serato
- the flex grid allows to use transmission songs, older stuff and whatever and integrate it into a set. With the S( not even possible to do by hand in an acceptable way.
- if something is to be changed speedy, you can do it as it is not depending on the preparation of tracks or the sync. If something goes wrong with the S8, missed a point or whatever...correction is nearly impossible
- you´ll use in a stressful scenario your remix decks as following: NOT A SECOND.
As beautyful the remix decks are: that is nothing for "just use and have fun"...needs preparation and planning.

That changes as soon as you talk about the "dedicated booked 60 minutes with own playlist for ONE genre", but that is not "the future of DJing", that is one single part of the business.

NI says it´s #thefutureofdjing, I say they play a risky game as they focus total tight on one single target group.

For sure Serato could pick up one or two functions, but a total change in this direction I would count as failure. (and makes as well no point from a business point of view. right now Serato does a lot of things total correct and NI is isolating themself.It´s much better to serve 90% of the market with several options and partners as to concentrade on 10% of the market and do it alone against the rest of the manufractors)

I'm agree and I'm not agree on all what you're saying.
OK N.I "all digital" direction is not really good, and the S8 is an obvious example for djs like you and me who started djing a long time ago.
But you cannot argue that djing has not evolved and will for sure evolve ! Look at the dj history:
- first, djs used to play songs (without mixing them) just to make rock the crowd.
- Then thanks to the speed controls turntables, djs started to mix the songs and make some scratches and turntablist skills.
- In the same time some djs started to create their own remix, their own songs with music software/tools.
- Then thanks the cdjs players, djs started to make some loops and very accurate mix with the bpm display.
- Finally thanks to the dvs, never a dj mix has seen so advanced: larger music collection, quicker music transitions, loops, fx, videos...etc

In fact, the technology has ALWAYS give more opportunities to djs. The technology is so advanced that almost everybody can "mix" (that's no mean there are real dj), so what are our added value as real dj? For sure we can rock parties because we know the songs to play in the right moment, but like Dj Craze showed in his last video we HAVE to and can do more than these fake/jukebox djs because we love to do it and we know how to do it! Every djs want to bring their personal touch in their mix.

One great dj area that is IMO very underutilized is the music production!
We have already the SP6 and Flip feature but as we used to say "what can do more can do less" so the SP16/remix with a dedicated panel can satisfy both current sp6 users and the ones who want to use the full feature. There was a attempt to introduce the music production in SSL with the bridge because it was a fail...

For sure it will need more preparation, but I remember that 10 years ago It took me also a lot of preparation to make (hiphop) parties with my vinyls (selecting the good ones, classifying them in the good order, practicing the scratches and beat jugglings...).
I'm agree this SP16/remix feature will not be used at each parties, in fact I can only see them used at "demo" events (not weeding :) ) but It will be so fun to use it at home! Then when we will comfortable with it, it will be more and more used in all kind of events.

The good thing Serato is that they try to the keep the UI (user interface) simple and useful so I'm sure they could make this sp16 in a smart way (not like Traktor I mean).

Except the bug fixes and small improvements, what SDJ can bring new ???

You have totally summed up this situation in the best possible way and totally agree with this. The Bridge wasn't revisited due to a small, specialised following. Native are hell bent on geyting6us remixing whereas Serato did it and took a step back. I loved the bridge and thought it was amazing but for most DJs it was just not for them but N. I. are pushing to this minority which is just too little of a market.

Serato did say they had plans to revamp the SP-6 in the coming year but you can almost guarantee it won't be forced upon us as the #future. It would probably be a SP-6 that has more banks accessible at once and an easier way to put your loops onto the sample player.



If instant doubles is activated, just drag the playing loop into an empty slot, this should work.

Some great, valid points by everyone and not the first time I've heard the same stuff mentioned. That shows Serato has nailed the basics and brings features that appeal to a broader range of DJs in the main program and anything a little 'niche' is a paid for plugin. That seems fair.

These are my thoughts too. We will see a revisit of production based tools but will be built into Serato and will not alienate current users.

I can also say that I hope Serato won't turn into Traktor. What Serato is known for is that it's simple, has the core of DJing well covered and let's you start playing with minimal hassle and preparation. The general way of things seem now like DJing and producing are slowly closing the gap between one another but I think it's good that Serato has this traditional core DJing approach to things and doesn't get too complicated.

I was suggesting an SP-6 revamp because it's such an obvious function to add features to as it's so basic at the moment but still I don't think it's necessarily good to just copy what Traktor is doing but instead make the upgrades to SP-6 in Serato style.

Looking at the recent development of SDJ and Traktor and the introduction of the S8 I actually feel pretty confident that Serato will grab the bigger market share soon...

Finally, some intelligent (verbal) intercourse here on this thread. That's what I like... seasoned DJs talking about what works, and what can be done to make it work even better.

I agree that at this point in time Serato offers the best overall choice in commercial DJ software. And as Heltino was saying; you can't program your whole set in advance, unless you are a headliner doing one hour performances. Even at that.., you'd better have it laid out perfect, or you'll find yourself rocking an empty dancefloor. 8-(

You have to be able to read the crowd and be quicker than they are. Like a herd of cattle, first one starts to run, then they all stampede. I plan my sets in advance, and lay out about 40-60 tracks in a program tailored to what I think my crowds tastes will be. Then I'll stick to my program as long as it's working, fitting in their requests, etc. wherever possible, as I go along. Sometimes though, I just have to toss it, and pick all the tracks on the fly. Hard, when you have thousands of tracks to choose from...

The suggestions I'm making are all designed to make the program easier and more efficient for me to use in those situations.

this is a great read.

I was very interested (even exited) about the sample decks when they were first released, and I still am to some degree, but I've never been able to use them effectively for anything other than simple drops and sound effect overlays. There is always a problem with Sync, or volume control, loops that won't loop in the players (Traktor samples won't work), or something else, that just makes it more trouble than it's worth to me. I have fun with the sample decks in Traktor, but even there, you need a dedicated controller to get practical use from them. In my opinion, Serato needs to do some more work on the SP-6 before it's ready for the kind of live remixing I have in mind...

I agree with that philosophy. At least I'd like to see a software tool box that was simple and solid at it's core, and then include the capacity to dial up whatever level of complexity and capability that was needed by the individual, ...building on that foundation.

Ideally, for myself, I'd like a modular design that I could self-configure to my own taste and needs. Being intimately familiar with VDJ and various industrial control softwares, I am very adept at creating my own interfaces and connecting those virtual visual controls to the actual software commands & feedback. I realize that most people would rather not have to learn, or deal-with that, but to me, it would be the ultimate scenario.

BTW, there are a couple of new drawings in the album, if anyone is interested in taking a look. Comments and (constructive) criticism are welcome.

Hey guys, I uploaded my new single monitor vertical waveform GUI mockup a few days ago www.flickr.com , and would really appreciate your comments/opinions on that concept.

It has most of the features I wanted, and I think I'd be satisfied with this concept, except for the still too narrow static waveforms, and a couple of other small details.

It does include these improvements in particular:

-- Top to bottom, full height, moving waveforms. Better than those in Itch...
-- Cue sweeps
-- Numbered & colored loop markers
-- Full width mixing transients
-- SP-8
-- Album art
-- BPM balance meter
...and more

C'mon people... help me out here...

Is this should work on big screens only?

Oh i saw you had a whole debate on the subject… NVM :)

It could be whittled down in the horizontal plane to fit on standard (not wide) screens. But it would take a little compromising to make that happen. Definitely not out of the question though.

oh wheres versino 1.7.3? is that beta?

Hypothetical one... :)

You have some really good ideas, just hope Serato crew takes notice.
I really did like how you implemented the cover art, not sure how I feel about the waveform on the side, though.

Just a food for thought, would be to incorporate the artwork inside of the virtual platter.

Thanks for the encouragement.


This is the vertical view from Itch. I've gotten used to it, and I feel it is the best compromise. There's no other way to get everything on one screen, without either making the waveform area to small to be practical, or slicing right through the middle of the track browser. There are other views in the album though, if you'd like to have a look and see if you like any of the others better: www.flickr.com


Yeah, I thought about that, but it didn't look right. The "clocks" are so busy already, plus the albums are square, vs. the round clock face...

I should have called it VDJ 2.0.

All ideas are very nice ;-)

Please use SDJ instead of VDJ :)

VDJ is 8.0 at the moment...what means 8 times fucked it up :)

VDJ is just too much LOL. They gave an infinity Pro license to all DDJ-SZ owners recently. That being said I have put some time into it. While I can see it as a viable option or DJ solution SDJ is much more fitting for me. I am a performance DJ who tends to rely on high performance hardware and want the software to do the bare minimum. Hope that makes sense. NOT that I don't like FX or features etc. just that I don't want too much automation.

With VDJ you could literally plan your entire set via sandbox and leave NO room for human error.......................... aka personal touch, swing or groove. To each their own I guess is all I have to say here. Impressive but just no longer feels like art to me. The connection is just GONE.



Back to SDJ for me..................... actually I never really left LOL. NO more of the other stuff I should say LOL

what I´´ve seen in VDJ is simplified to just two point that makes it for me a show stopper.

1. the full gay color wave form gives me eye cancer. looks like a korea made color theme from Samsung made under high influence of drugs. looks shit, works shit...not mine.
2. the "quality" (not even worth the word) of the effects is 90´s technologie. but the 90s cheap software technology...the very cheap one. NEVER heard such terrible effects in a DJ software.

VDJ is some good points, out of question.
I like the flexibility of it and the support of nearly any hardware on the planet.
I like some detail functions....

But in general it´s for me too much a toy from the touch and feel and I also don´t need the level of automatization. I believe anyway not in any huge preparation. If you are a wedding or mobile DJ...you have to see what happens. nobody can plan such events in advance.
guys with "the plan" or a consequent playlist will suck and fail within such events.

Very true!!! Every performance is VERY much a life of their own and should be taken as play by play instead of a planned ahead of time basis. Turn key is ideal but rarely the case. Not for nothing it is this alive concept that got us into this in the first place right?

Haha...! Sorry, you're right. Yeah, I meant SDJ...


LOL ...right again.

I was one of the very first to use VDJ. I was using it back before it was even called by that name. Originally it was Atomix mp3.

Atomix released VDJ as a product to actually replace and eliminate the live DJ in nightclubs. According to them, the computer would now take the DJ's place. But I realized it was also a highly customizable digital DJ tool, so I seized on it's potential, rewrote the whole interface and made it my own. It was great for about three years, and then they started just going down one wrong path after another. Finally I gave up on it entirely.

Many a DJ started the digital venture with VDJ. I myself started with VDJ/PCDJ but at the time just felt more at home with my physical stuff so I continued to use USB & CD's until Serato. Actually TBH I tried the HDD/controller path as well. Went with cortex which was ehhhh kind of OK.......... just NOT compared to Serato LOL. Once I got my hands on the SL1......... that (as they say) was THAT!!!

I did my first musical steps on a software called DreamStation. Nostalgic… :)

Thanks, friend.

What I would like to see in SDJ are he following:

I would like to organize the GUI as I want.
2/4 decks, waveform as I want where I want.
Cover art where I want
Dual screen support for easy browsing(with cover art) or if this is not coming than 21:9 support, so I can browse at one side of the screen.

What would be nice to import from VDJ (beside the mentioned flexible GUI) is the ReWire and DMX compatibility.

Everyone can say, it is not a DJ stuff, and while it is true.... BUT...
We all want to entertain our crowd. Visuals are getting more and more important. As a dj, if you can get control for the projected video(s) and the light control also, and you start 'scatching' or 'beat juggling' the entire stuff (sound, light and video) in the same time and do it good, you can bet that the crowd will go crazy in a few minutes.

I went for a few parties where the guys used 6-9 projectors, all synced and the projected (mapped) image was in sync with the music, while the visual guys made their DMX shows.
This was in the early 2000. 6 guys for it.
Nothing can come close to this kind of experience.
Not very econimical these days.
If the entire stuff can be made by 1 or 2 persons (with ReWire and a LAN cable), it is something that will blow your head off.

To give the possibility to the user (just like the development of the 'sync' button) and make it switchable can NOT hurt enyone.

One will use it, the other will not.

In all honesty I feel like you are trying to go zero to sixty in .5 seconds and this leads to............ whiplash!!

While I am a firm believer in the user selectable features and their effectiveness I am not sure how the above requests could fit into the Serato environment. Not for nothing Serato lacks actual Retina support and this is probably requested (and I am being lenient) on a 100:1 ratio as compared to features such as this.

I am in no way saying I don't understand your want nor do I criticize or even blame for wanting it. I am simply saying if they aren't supporting Retina yet this is a FARRRRRR reach.

Amen... I'm with you 100% But what are the chances that Serato would actually afford us that much control..?


Definitely. However IMO, I used to think it was better to have the browser on it's own dedicated screen, but I like the spacebar toggle feature better. Rarely are you mixing and browsing simultaneously. If we only had a dedicated button on the controller... Still... the option to force it to it's own dedicated monitor... what's the hurt?


You are exactly right, but the company and most DJs can not think that far ahead of the game. Again though, I'm with you.

I know (as an NS7 II user)

Serato is SLOW in development... (compared to other DJ software)

I started with MixVibes since that was the only one back than that supproted any soundcard and 4 decks. I had an E-Mu 1820 card and a Vestax PMC-37 Pro.

Later I bought a (pretty few) Stanton SCS.1 stuff (4-4 units, 2-2 is still for sale)

Ever since I could not find any program that could give all I want.

VDJ is good in a way, but made not so good.
NI is on the automation,
Serato makes everythig so slowly...
MixVibes is not anymore, as Final Scratch and many many others (ok, they exist, but who cares)

Sad

Hah... I also have 4 SCS-1Ds.

Your comments are right on the money. If I thought there was any money in it, I'd start my own software company, and put these others to rest. Same thing with the hardware. I know what I want and need, and I have the experience, networking, and technological expertise to get it done right. However, I don't think the profit margin is there, so I keep on petitioning the existing manufacturers to get it done for me. Sad situation we're in...

SDJ does not even support GPUs as it should.
How realistic is a 100% flexible GUI?

You know I agree with a lot you say. As always I mean no offense but you are not leaving ANY room for the a simple reality. It is NO that they or "most DJ's" are not thinking ahead of the game. We are just talking about different games here. Hearing that comment could be taken that anyone NOT concerned with that is "behind" in some way. I simply leave the lighting to the lighting guy and the AV to the AV guy. I have every bit of hardware and software I could ever want. Yet I still do NOT have Mix Emergency which say a LOT. I mean pretty much anyone who takes VDJing seriously uses Mix Emergency...................... yet I do not. What does this say? Simply that I have no interest in VDJing is all. I have barely used Serato Video of which I have four (which came FREE with various Pioneer hardware) licenses.


As I said and have shown I agree with much you say/bring up. I am also all for changes that affect the community at large positively. I just feel this is a perfect example of Serato KNOWING their customer base and keeping core customers/values a priority.

Not for nothing Serato themselves openly admit that Mix Emergency is a WAY more advanced video solution. Yet they are fine with this. Again sounds like they know where they lie in the grand scheme of things.

I am curious if you have tried Mix Emergency speaking of this.



Mixvibes specifically has taken some large strides in the past year or so to remain relevant. While they are by no means the mainstream solution of choice they have a GREAT feature set. Furthermore I have heard NOTHING but good things from the people who use it so I assume they in fact care. Not for nothing it has reached my ear and I myself am looking into it being it offers Rekordbox SYNC.

That Stanton was a fail if I ever saw one. Not only did it not follow the needs/ wants of actual DJ's it (unlike Mixvibes) seemingly has its actual owners left unsatisfied.

Good question.

AGAIN I stress I am still for your ideas as I was from the start but I do NOT agree in that Serato has everything wrong. After all there are those who are looking for features and hoping they come sooner rather than later. Keep in mind there is a HUGE amount of satisfied customers though. Also keep in mind the majority containing happy customers who would not mind a few changes here & there. I am assuming they are happy in that the question of "what are you still doing here if you are not?" comes up.

Kinda makes a little sense?

Again I am in no way trying to deter ANY progress in any way. On the contrary I am all for an organized manner of which to get some nice ideas across. To be completely honest this more or less has seemingly become more of a "do this, do that" in that there is SO much going on with less of the organization that was seemingly more present at first.

Also I feel too many ideas are being thrown around without any real sense of overall feedback. I saw one idea get tossed in here (Album art on the virtual Decks) which has come up before and the community at large HATED the idea. I was one of them. Yet that is something I remember most from this thread for some reason while the better ideas are getting lost.

The reason I am saying this is NOT because I don't like your ideas. It is because SOME of the stuff you brought up is straight gold and I hate to see those ideas get drowned by concepts that simply won't work.......... fair enough?

What is your most current mockup? I am assuming the latest one posted here?

My opinion is you should post mockup along with a numbered list so individuals can give their feedback based on a number system. Reason why I say this is Serato FEEDS on feedback that can be measured in numbers. As in supporters. Reason be this closely represents their customer base on a smaller scale.



Example.


Concept 1.f www.mockup.com (Post link to mockup here)

1.) YES
2.) YES
3.) NO
4.) Yes
5.) etc.

then a brief summary of any suggestions/comments to get the next mockup up. IMO this keeps everyone's ideas in SYNC and at the end you should have a tentative product worthy of Serato's attention. With the feedback to back it up!!! This is kind of what I was getting at from the start but as I said it has gotten a little confusing.

As ALWAYS just trying to help an NOT tell you what to do.

Deejay dave, my comment about many other DJs lacking vision was not aimed at you... not at all.

What M.adam was talking about, is there is no software or hardware on the market right now that will allow the full creativity and expression that real visionaries and showmen need/crave.

When I first began using Atomix software, there WAS nothing else. It was highly customizable though, so I wrote my OWN interface that worked for me. There were no controllers, so I built my own... not like the little dinky Hercules controllers that came after, but one with REAL (non-motorized) turntable platters and 12" records. The display was in the console, and readouts were adjacent to the corresponding controls... where they SHOULD be. Twelve years has passed, yet neither the software, nor the controller market has caught up with my original design concepts. I see you're not the average player either, so perhaps you understand how frustrating this can be for someone like myself..?

I don't understand those DJs who arrive at a club wearing a tee shirt and shorts, with their little 9" notebook in a backpack, and then go hide from the crowd in the DJ booth all night running the clubs equipment. Personally, I don't play clubs anymore (too old), but when I did, I'd go in dressed to kill. I'd set up my own console right on the the edge of the dancefloor so I could hear exactly what they were hearing and best interact with the crowd. I never wanted to be just an "operator", trying to turn a dollar... you can make more money doing other things. I wanted to be the center of attention and the hub of all activity. The power and the glory... FUN... that's what it's all about. No offense intended to anyone else reading this, ...but I just can't comprehend the casual, minimalist "employee" thinking of the average DJ I see today...

Agreed completely. Presentation is huge. Image is huge. Granted sound is our greatest weapon but there IS so much more. Unfortunately the DJ image has been tainted and the term "douche bag" is standard now. Trust I am not trying to insult anyone as I am included in this assumption. I also get the concept of right tools for the right job. I am actually HUGE on this. Second to firepower Vs. mobility it is one of my largest principles.

Unfortunately with the masses being the type of individual I described above "douche bag" (I hate saying this but it's true. The message has been lost. The values are lost. The standards are lowered. This IS truly a cater to the masses world and the hardware/software dev's are no exception. In short I DO get your frustrations.

Do you have any pictures of your controller you designed? I myself have been contemplating a little (literally a LITTLE) mixer of my own. The actual controller/player part I think is out of my league but a mixer is something I am comfortable with.

Dave, no one is saying that Serato has everything wrong! Least of all, me!

They have a lot of things right... But, that just makes the things that ARE wrong, stand out all the more! So close... yet so far away... Know what I mean?

I can dig it......

Somewhere, but I've been though a nasty divorce since then, and maybe you've heard how things can get lost and scrambled during those. I'll try to dig some out for you when I get back in town, though.


Building a (non motorized) controller is fairly easy today, with all the off the shelf electronics we have at our disposal. Mixer is a lot easier. You could probably put one together with a list of parts from DJ Techtools. If they don't have it all in stock, the parts are readily available from other suppliers.

What's been on my mind for the last 4-5 years is a state of the art, Digital DJ turntable. I have the design and engineering down pat.

I'm talking about something totally different, that could play vinyl records, standard control vinyl, or run totally digital, with no skipping needles, and no feedback. Very innovative, impressive appearance, large comprehensive information displays, etc., and fit's into a standard TT case.

any one knows wen there having microphone effects on serato dj

The thing is, if you will take 1000 serato users and ask them to design their ideal GUI you will get 1000 different suggestion. Your ideas are really good, yet this is how YOU see it. Others will think far from you.
We shouldn't forget how this whole doing business began, with two turntables and a mixer and thats it. No softwares no effects n nothing - and still ppl found ways to be creative and developed unique styles.
Nowadays, we have so many options when were playing and still we are looking for more and more features and improvements.
Don't get me wrong here, I have lots of ideas about how to make serato better, yet as i said before - these ideas are how i see the picture. Many users may find my ideas stupid/too complex/ too complicated and so on.

Obviously you aren't familiar with the mentality of the average Serato user. Probably at least 85% would say that it is great the way it is, and couldn't be improved because anything ordained by Serato is already perfect. ;) Lots of fanboys and "believers" in the Serato customer base...


Haha, yeah that would be like the pot calling out the kettle.... :)

I see some of your ideas as being more valuable than others... But, you are a visionary. You are thinking! That's what I like about you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while thinking about how things can be better, its important to acknowledge the fact that most ideas won't fit most people for many reasons.
And this is true especially when the idea is so complex and diverse as yours. Sometimes it is more efficient and realistic to focus the energy on specific things rather than a comprehensive solution.

I don't follow you, Whiz...

I have listed the "improvements" I've suggested, separately a few times here. I've even taken the extra step of graphically illustrating them, so that people could actually see what those changes would look like.

As far as who might use them; first of all they are all optional, and secondly I think most of these options would be picked up by the majority of users, once they were available and people could actually try them. If I were running Serato, I'd be including the better ideas from this forum into beta software, and distributing it to a select group of users for evaluation. This forum is in no way a real cross section representing all the Serato DJs out there, anyway.

Personally, I'd be pretty happy, if I could just get the vertical waveform view. This isn't even new. For many of us, it was the view of choice in Itch.

If you like one of my ideas, and think that it needs to be promoted separately, just grab it and run with it like it was your own. I don't want any credit... I just want software that I can use effectively.

Oh don't get me wrong, I appreciate your effort and the work you've put in this. It maybe sounded like it but I didn't mean to criticize.

Well, if there is any truth to this statement, I would love for those users to come forward and present their ideas here on this thread, so that I could incorporate the best of them into my sketches and maybe get a little attention from Serato. But IMO, it's like I said before: Most of these guys are unable to think outside the (Serato) box, and probably aren't even properly utilizing what is already there.

with a look on a release "in time" and not "sometime" I would strongly prefer to keep it simple.
100% flexibility is nice, out of question, but as well hard to implement.
would love to have it...but this will take time.

for me the most painful stuff is more important to get solved.
size of the static wave form for example.
it´s ridiculous small and nearly useless right now, but I think it´s one of the most common used display parts of the whole software for nearly everybody.

Demolition made as well some real smart suggestions and I believe a lot of them should be not so hard to implement.

I would say: let´s go with smaller steps...BUT GO instead of discussion the perfect world that will nevver happen. (and as well change...definition of "perfect" is always a 1:1 connection to the personal style of each DJ....the outcome for a company like Serato must be anyway some kind of compromise for all dedicated users...)

Heltino, have a look at this: www.flickr.com . This would satisfy me, if I only used one screen ...what's your opinion?

that is for me overkill.
I don´t like the vertical wave forms (question of taste) and in general that is for me too much.

static wave forms are still too small as well.

Those are the actual waveforms from Itch ...already twice wide as SDJ, and widened yet another 25%. Still not wide enough for you?

I prefer the vertical moving waveforms for my use because they follow the same order as the decks (side to side vs above and below). However, as you say, that is a matter of personal taste and selectable by the user.

this is where I came from:
www.digitaldjtips.com

perfect size!

Hmmm, well I can't stretch the Serato graphics anymore without loosing too much definition. You want me to put the Traktor WFs in there? If I'm going that route, just for kicks I might as well include the Remix Decks vs the SP-8. Traktor has a better (longer) WF representation for their samples.

I have to warn you though... it's probably going to look a little cheesy... Traktor just doesn't have the same waveform quality.

I don´t talk about the content of the wave form, just the size.
In SDJ it´s just too small....

Okay buddy, well here it is with the actual Traktor WFs: www.flickr.com .

That is as close as I can get without carefully redrawing the whole WFs manually. At least this way, you and others can see the comparative difference in waveform size, and maybe I'll get some (useful) feedback.

Alright... help me out here... What part is overkill? This is really a very simple GUI, when the SP-8 and effects panels are closed.

Seriously, you guys see this from a different point of view, and I need your input.

BTW... is this the screen size the regular notebook guys are using? www.flickr.com If so... no wonder they think I'm on a different wavelength...

Dave, I don't know if you've ever played with the Stanton SCS-1Ds, but they are actually a great controller in about 95% of their aspects. They have a great TT motor that performs better than the V7/NS7. A big 10" platter with real vinyl. Pressure sensitive lighted buttons with their own individual LED screens and LED position and mode indicator lights. Servo controlled pitch control, and much more...

Only problem, Stanton dropped the ball with poor quality control on the manufacturing end, and the machine/software interface is buggy... A lot of owners are very bitter about this... They'd be my favorite controllers by far, if only they'd finished what they started. It's an awesome looking setup w/ four of these, a DDM4000 and Traktor running on twin monitors.

I still love to play with them, but I'd never try to use them to perform at a real gig. They're just not reliable. For sure something would happen and they'd let me down.

I've been following this thread and I think the optimal answer to the UI relies on two things: flexibility/customization and efficient use of space.

The challenge of make more use of space is that it clutters the space more and certain parameters will show up for emphasis. However, users will have their own preferences for what they want displayed and how it's displayed.

That is where user defined flexibility would come in but it would also solve other problems with regards to people using different equipment combinations and with different displays. I'd love to be able to link a tablet to my laptop and have all the library navigation, track loading, preparation ok that over to the side, the main machine's screen showing only my FX panel, SP-6 panel and my four deck controls. Drag and drop, modular UI would be very powerful. If this could be integrated with support for some universal display/touch screen protocol, I could imagine adding in small modular displays/touch displays tailored to each user's desires much like we do with hardware. But, that's getting quite ahead of ourselves.

I think even just a modular UI for one or two displays would be would be far more game-breaking for Serato to implement than even the universal DVS platform with 1.5. Stability would really be tested and a lot of computers would go obsolete. But I don't see any other way to really incorporated anything but incremental changes without really pissing of a lot of users. A revolutionary UI overhaul would alienate all the intro controller market, which is where I am betting a big chunk of their money comes from.

Some of the changes you have mocked up are handy for sure, but they just don't add enough for me to request them over features like universal midi panel, quantize transport controls, continued stability and resource utilization improvements, etc.

Hello LargeFarva. You make a lot of good points. But, some things you mentioned, like: Is it..? Or are the software companies just that far behind? That's the way I see it anyway...

And, I'm wondering why you would feel that either one would exclude the other..?

Thanks for your post, BTW.

fme the waveforms is at the total wrong place.
vertical/horizontal (what I prefer) should be a central part of the GUI and not "docked" on teh side.

the SP8 is for me an information overkill.
I would never need such detailed views and it´s for me, as all is subjective, just confusing.

remember: I came from traktor and I dislike the remix decks as they are MUCH too much.
For a simple loop drop, through in or whatever nobody needs this.
the simple stuff is no longer possible as these beasts of decks are just created for producers and remixers. I´m a DJ and none of these kind of guys.
if the "SP8" goes in the same detail level...I assume I stop using them as well.
I need simple, intuitive, NO PREPARATION NEED and just working sample decks.
your SP8 idea is with detail adjustemnt options...so far ok as long as I can simplify the GUI and just hide not needed stuff.
BUT: all of this is just useless as long as we have no on the fly loading within SDJ.
In Traktor I can grap a loop (as well with effects running on this!) and put it into a sample deck. that died a little with the remix decks, but is still possible.
in SDJ I can use existing samples....that sucks.

next to it in Traktor you have a folder where all the grapped and used samples are auto saved as wav files as soon as you minimum played it one time complete. so testing will not create data waste and the cool grapped stuff is saved an available in each future set. love that one.

Okay, I understand that you prefer the horizontal moving waveforms. I just haven't had the time to draw the horizontal version, so I was working with something that I had handy. I do prefer the vertical (for the same reason that you like the horizontal) as I've gotten used to it. So, I wanted to see how that would look... but you can picture it in your mind with the horizontal, and when I get time I'll draw you one also.

The SP-8, other than including two more slots (so we can use all eight pads), is no different that what is now included in the standard software. You can have the detailed view (as I've shown), or the simple view. ...you can even show, or hide the whole panel. That is up to you.

If you have not already seen it, I would like for you to have a look at MixVibes software, and tell me what you think of it. It may be more like what you are looking for. It has a deck layout very similar to Traktor, but also has moving horizontal beat-mixing waveforms somewhat similar to VDJ. It also comes pre-mapped to a lot of popular controllers. I'm thinking about buying a copy myself, to replace Traktor as my DVS.

They aren't exclusive but there are only so many resources Serato has to direct at user-requested features. As I stated, there are simply other things I'd want before I would want the UI tweaks you at suggesting, even though I like many of the tweaks. I also try to keep in mind what I want in regards to how much it will serve the Serato user base overall. There are some very specific things I want, but I won't likely get them unless I start building my own software suite.

Just keep in mind that Serato DJ is a paltry $100. People whine all the time about the lack of updates and then about the cost of updates that are released. $100 is nothing. I work with engineering software for a living, and licenses we use cost anywhere from $500-8,000 + per workstation. For professional level software, which Serato DJ is, it's pretty cheap IMO.

I have no problem with paying more. That is, as long as I feel I'm getting at least "semi" personal service, and the features I need/want.

www.djtechtools.com

Aaaaannnd it sounds like someone had a similar idea. Hopefully this become a standardized supplemental hardware addition for any and all setups.

Thanks. Yes, this is where things are going right now. My system is just a larger, more elaborate version of the same: www.flickr.com .

They are still going about it all wrong, though. At least five years behind where they should be. The only reason mine is set up that way now, is because I'm having to work with what I can buy commercially at the moment.

if you say serato is years behind....how about native instruments.

serato fireworks, again, at NAMM....NI showed....OH...NOTHING.

SDJ is still not "done", but nobody from serato is anyway saying this and last not least such software is never "done".

add and change and improve....will go forever.

nature of software I would say ;)

No, you misunderstand... I'm saying they're all behind. All software ...and... hardware manufacturers included.

or you are in front :)

I don't think there's anything special about me, other than I make my living solving other peoples problems.

I've learned to give myself the freedom to think out of the box, and look ahead at the whole picture. That allows me to see the (sometimes very simple) answers to their critical issues, and affords me the ability to look into the future somewhat.

Most people don't really do much original thinking. Like a herd of sheep, they mostly follow trends, and focus on the immediate. (goes for many DJs too...) You can hand these type of engineers and designers winning ideas for free, on a silver platter, and it's the same as pouring water on a duck's back. But charge them a big fee, and they'll accept them. Or do it yourself, and if you are successful, they will all fall into a line behind you, trying to capitalize on your efforts.

don´t get me wrong.
I aprreciate "thinking loud".

Think yourself is always recommended, think loud can inspirate other guys and soon comes a cool development in the move.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

I've applied another of my ideas to the (virtual) interface BTW. A ring around the virtual platters or "clocks" as I've been calling them, on the GUI, that looks and works very much like the stroboscopic speed indicator on Technics TTs. Makes it very easy to see at a glance whether any given deck is synchronized with another deck, and/or the master BPM setting.

too bad that the distance is significant between us. (even if I have no clou where in the US you are)

could be an interesting BBQ with a few beers....

Lol, yeah it's always good to get together with other professionals and talk shop. But you're somewhere in Europe, right..? I'm in Atlanta Ga.

good old Germany.

most interesting would be the brain storming after a couple of beer.
(I´m a German....means >10)

:)

Ah yes... the motherland.


Sure... but im partial to scotch, myself.

Ah yes... the motherland.


Sure... but I'm partial to scotch, myself.

don´t get me wrong:

but if you follow the discussion here (what is real productive, I think)....you start to laugh if you see what happens right now in the Traktor world.

A NIGHTMARE OF BULLSHIT.

NAMM 2015:

Serat has the, getting used to, firework with all the players.
Pioneer accepted a change kit for the nexus line. what is a straight punch in the face of NI as this will enable the already as "exclusive traktor DVS" sold units for serato.
means: guys who decided in the past to traktor will get an upgrade/migration offer to join serato.
that is with a look on the market an EXCECUTION of NI.

denon comes with an interface...no more raine SSL exclusive...another player.
numark comes with the NS7III AND an upgrade kit for the NS7II. NICE ONE.

NI came with.....nothing.
nothing? NO. of course not.
they managed to come with a new version of the 4 year old software that is the dead center of BUG.
guys has shut downs, no start, destroyed collections....and beside of this real cool bugs....NOT A SINGLE ADDED FEATURE.

so, as I´ve changed to serato, I stay on my point:
SDJ complains is accceptable...but comparing to the other world more or less crying for small shit :)

2.7.3 traktor is worst update ever seen....

and next to this "brilliant" update...NOTHING.

the S8 plastic china bomber what is designed for pooser DJs and is straight of track to the real needs.
who the fuck needs remixdecks like hell and displays if you have not even an option to pitch something in a usable way?

no fader...nothing. a knob...that is on 0,1 BPM....if you like to have a knob that changes with a turn by 1,0BPM you have to press shift.
as shift is placed at the end of the controller...TWO hands to pitch a simple fucking single BPM. practical just SHIT and I know nobody with at least three hands.

so dude, yes, SDJ is not perfect...but comparing to this it is just the paradise itself.

(consider that NI as well give a shit on customers and do not even reply in the forum or give you acceptable support in case of issues)

I hear what you're saying, but I've been in this game longer than most people, and I am pretty disgusted with them all at this point. If I didn't (assume I...) know better, I'd think all the companies belonged to one big corporation, with the intent of running us back and forth between softwares and controllers until they finally get all our money.

I have Traktor, so I know all about that end of things. NI must be in financial trouble, because they are constantly sending me discount offers. But then I never took Traktor seriously, anyway.

VDJ was my mainstay for years, but every single year they managed to screw up the software a little worse, until I finally just gave up on it altogether. I had good ideas that I tried to present to them, and they basically just laughed in my face... But look at them now... If VDJ8 doesn't pull them out of the hole... they are more or less done for, now.

What I'm saying is - Serato may be on top of the pile at this point, but the pile still stinks, and things can change at any time. You have to admit that MixVibes (in spite of their corny name) is coming on very strong, and don't forget that Numark owns Torq now, who knows what surprises they might pull out of [i]their]/i] hat... and Stanton has some very talented software engineers also.