+1. This direct drive MIDI turntable is sick. We need Native Support Serato.
www.poweronplay.com

A standard has been established:
-MIDI
-HID

HID has one nice advantage:
-cross platform support and not dependent on OS (Windows XP/Vista/Mac = ok)

Bad point:
-not a standard for mapping devices, support must come native by vendor. (closed system)

MIDI has been around for over 25-years and has the advantage to map any key, button, switch or knob to the MIDI standard.
What’s new and introduced by DENON is:
-Spinning Platter Support by MIDI
-Display Text Support by MIDI (previously done only by HID)

Denon is willing to let other manufactures use the same Spinning Platter MIDI signal. There MIDI protocol is public.

+ 1 for native support for midi on the S3700

What is the link to Mixed Emergency? I've never heard of it.

There was talk about it in the video section on this forum. However here is link to their site.
www.inklen.com

Anyways lets keep this thread for the Native midi support for the 3700.

OMG please support my 3700

I dont like useing it on USB. I was spoiled with vdj and my waveform

If they supported this i may actually buy ssl. Right now im a VDJ user
Come on serato

no response from SERATO? I know you guys do good answering questions on the video forum. Just word of encouragement......Couple of your competitiors will be offering native support. Let's get with the times!

bump

Just wanted to put my voice in on this. I don't post a lot here, but serato.... we really need midi support on these badboys!

YES!! I own 2 of the players now too. Midi support please??????

If they add native for these, I'm getting them without a doubt!

+1

YES!! I also have 2 players and want Midi Support too please!!!!!! Thank you

Please make adding MIDI support a priority. It seems that your competitors are jumping on this faster than you are, and denon users are by no means a small percentage of your user base.

yes midi support for 3700
+1

+1

come on serato, u can do it!!

+1
I just got one 3700 and it's awesome. I'll make it +2 when native support is added and I buy the second one.
Otherwise it almost makes sense to run the 3700 with a usb drive and skip ssl without native support.

just saw that a competitor put out a new version with platter support... might have to switch over if we don't hear anything soon from serato.

Which competitor?

Atomix Productions Releases Virtual DJ 6
www.poweronplay.com

VDJ 6.0 now offers full Native support with spinning platter control for the DN-HS5500 and DN-S3700. Plus, with the new script language, you can finally make your controller act like a Denon deck without yelling at jpboggis to do another update for his mapper.

that's the one ;)

Virtual DJ's sound engine sucks, however I'll probably try it out. I really want "Native Support" from Serato though.

We want Native Support. Bring it on Serato.

Spinning platters for the world.

I tried these 3700 yesterday and in fact, native support is strongly recommanded.
The best player i've never play !...but with Serato's cd noisemap... 3700 is just a simple player :-/

the best way to use this decks with ScratchLive - using them as ordinary cd decks with time code cd and one of supported hardware (SL1 SL3 57SL)

+1

this is bad, that it's not possible to use some deck button or other control thru midi while using them with cd timecode....

That would be impossible, denon explained why also The deck would not know what would be midi or what would control the cd or flash drive. It's either one or the other. That's how all the midi decks like pio is too

you can buy midi controllers :) or third 3700 deck for controling serato thru midi ;)

I don't own a 3700, so I have a hard time understanding this:
How come Denon don't implement a mode for the player to BOTH send midi signals and regular control of the CD/Flashdrive? I mean, theres a lot of mixers both sending midi signals and still do the the "classic" functions.

That way Serato could take advantage of the high res control tone/noise map, and still feed track info on the player unit.

+1 for native d3700 support

+1 I want to buy these when I upgrade my shit in the new year.

Please do it for us......

lets see what namm 2010 brings us. think we could be getting a late xmas present

+1

Come on Serato you can do it..........................!

im still waiting for SSL to work with my DNS-3700s, their useless to me... im thinking about jumping over to virtual dj.

+1 for the 3700

+1 for Denon S3700 native Support

I came across a post in the general dj forum were one of the serato guys acknowledged that they had done some work on getting native support but the results is not yet satisfactory.

It’s all to do with how the product was designed, if native support was discussed in the design vase then it would have been different. One thing I can remember is that it has something to do with the fact that the platter is not touch sensitive.

Will try and find the post.

I know you're working on getting 2.0 ready for release but is native support for the 3700 anywhere on the horizon?

any info update??

according to this thread from Chad (Rane support), "Nothing on the horizon that I am aware of"

serato.com

Thanks BriChi. I'm hoping though that if we ask and show continued interest maybe they'll think about it. Others are supporting it or working on it.
I'm not even considering any SL equipment upgrade without this being addressed. If my SL1 has any issues (knock wood that it will continue to function great) I'll play on my 3700's with my external drives.

I'll show you guys how to fix it as soon as I get my Sixty-Eight.

I sold my SL-1 and do not have access to SSL anymore.

Above post should have gone to this thread www.scratchlive.net

Sorry. Now where is Serato at on supporting the MIDI spinning platter?

I see that the RPM software mentioned in that other thread also works with the 3700 natively. I'd have thought sratchlive wold have had it working if they can.

+1 would be great

I just bought two DN-S3700's and love them. I'd love them even more if they had MIDI support with SL3. Please, please, Please make this happen. I'd love to be able to use all the features on the DN-S3700's with SL3. Life would be perfect.

The next firmware update for the DN-S3700 will incorporate the Serato timecode into the player.

WOW!
www.denondjforums.com

via old stream at 12:50 www.ustream.tv

Well this looks interesting. Does this work almost like native support?

I'm assuming it's in MIDI mode and under Native Support Only. Expect an announcement soon from Serato and Denon. However, SSL 2.1 beta has no mention of this?

I was told HYBRID was impossible. All the DN-S3700 needed was a 10 second audio loop of SSL timecode for Relative mode and MIDI for the buttons and knobs.

The new software RPM has the best Native MIDI support for the platter. Virtual DJ has done some great work with the platter recently. I've also been able to map the Platter and Tempo in Traktor, but it follows the platter inconsistencies of an actual turntable (Great for Vinyl emulation, but bad for precise mixing).

Denon's own internal code for CD or USB play has always been the best. So with integrated timecode (& I'm assuming MIDI), it will be hands down the best software controlled by a spinning platter. Not including the NS7 and ITCH.

... what is the interrest of having this timecode inside the player ?
This will not change anything about the native support...

exactly, from the way I read and watched what they said, all they are doing is incorporating the timecode into memory so you dont need the control cd or usb flash drive so it will still act the same as if you put the cd in or flash drive, you just don't need it anymore, sooooooo I really dont see what the big deal is, it's still not midi or native control from what I am seeing.

Did anyone else notice how bad that live stream was, the guy trying to explain and answer questions was kinda clueless. First someone asked how they incorporate the timecode and the guy said that it will be in th next FW update, then someone asked how you will access it and switch between that and a cd and the guy had no clue and said the next model may have a button to press, LOL, clueless

BullS... lol
If no native support or something else like that... -> Will not purchase these 3700.

If there is a built in timecode into memory and if it's possible to send this signal in MIDI => Full spinning platter support => SSL Native support "ready" !!!

Control Signal is audio and cant be 'passed through midi'

A kind of hybrid mode ? serato controls throught MIDI and internal serato signal (no CD, no USB) through audio rca activated by SSL in Native mode?

Yes its too bad the deck wasnt designed that way from the beginning.


I hope one day someone designes a deck without a CD drive, hard drive instead, all buttons midi, and rotating platter (12")

Here is what I think about the wordupdj.com event in MIAMI.

I don't think 1 of these guys actually own a DN-S3700. They were clueless and uninformed, I was annoyed by the whole event. BAD DJ'S, TERRIBLE SONG SELECTION, BAD PRODUCTION & LIES.

Extra button added for SSL Timecode? Doesn't know if the timecode on a USB will control SSL? Took 2 minutes to find out you cannot loop on a 3700 while in RELATIVE mode. "I have an idea, lets play a song about how big our penises are for the last 10 minutes!"

The only thing important on the stream was at 12:50. But after that, none of them had a clue as to how it will be implemented. "How do you get out of SSL timecode? I'm sure they will add a button." WTF???????

isn't that almost the now discontinued dn-s5500, with a smaller platter?

yeah - I think so
I cant stand small platers.
If it had a decent size plater I would have taken a look at it. The next thing I would have a problem with is how many of the buttons would be midi, I am guessing not enough of them which would annoy me as well.

What I want is something minimal, highly configurable and generic like.

Well, it looks like the DN-S3700 got Native Scratch Live support via Hybrid Mode.
www.poweronplay.com

It's not native support! this hybrid mode is not already mapped to SSL functions...
This mode allows you to control DVS systems by sending an internal audio trought rca in MIDI mode. But I guess that is possible to select audio signal to switch between DVS systems

yeah, this has nothing to do with serato native support, All it is doing is storing the control signal on the internal memory and allowing you to manually map the 3700 buttons to dvs software.

But that makes it essentially a midi controller with a rotating platter, sending a TC signal?
Sort of like an V7, but for SSL not Itch? Or am I missing something?

not exactly, yes it allows you to use it as a midi controller but decks like the V7 have native support meaning there is not need for a control signal (tone) so the latency is a little lower being that everything is controlled via HID (usb mode).

It's still a step in the right direction for 3700 owners, at least they can use it as a midi controller and still have the signal tone to control the platter

I want to see native support for Denon's new DN-SC2000 controller. I think I'll make a new thread for that.

What I was thinking...

A step in the right direction indeed. I would love for the buttons LED to light up as well as the display (HID). It is very similar to the DN-HC4500 so I know SSL can get this done.

The timecode signal coming out of the S3700/S1200 is super clean and powerful, a perfect scope circle, which will provide great tracking and performance....
www.denondj.com

It is a step in the right direction, but it's not native support.
Come on serato, get with Denon and get it done! Please!!

I don't think that Serato will give native support to 3700's. The only model that is working correctly is HC 4500... and HD 2500 (except the screen) but nothing for professional models since they came on the market even if there are many Dicussions about this on the forum.
Why are they going to change something today ?... but the small cdj 400 is supported, and i think that CDJ 850 will coming soon... don't ask me why lol

t

the cdj 900 and 2000 is natively supported also and they work perfect!

This is exactly what i mean:
When this is for Pioneer, it's OK (CDJ 400/900/2000/ MEP 7000) 3 professionals single decks references.

Denon: HC 4500 / HD 2500: that's All !

if you follow the reasoning behind it though it's because Pioneer has made there decks in a HID mode, not strictly midi so it is a lot easier to make them native. The 3700's platter is very hard to natively support via midi commands

I though that 3700 was HID ... Wasn't what Denon told us ?

nope, as far as I know and have read, the Denons are MIDI only where the pio's are MIDI/HID... This is also straight from Seratos mouth in one of the threads on this forum

I know something was stated in the manual about midi and hid commands being sent but for some reason Serato and some other developers couldn't get it right, Not sure how Denon outputs or how it would effect serato, but it does :(

In fact, these Denon players are not HID, so i understand what's going ON. I'll look on CDJ's 850 when they will be natively reconized on Scrathlive.
Thanks Brichi.

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback, good stuff.
Our new Hybrid mode should provide wonderful control between our hardware and SSL users.

I’ve been reading many forums and there seems to be a very big misconception and overly hyped perception that HID is a superior method to MIDI.

HID and MIDI are two different methods that allow high speed two-way communication between hardware and computer. They “both” can achieve the same excellent response and performance as required when done right. Its like a car and train moving at 60MPH in parallel, they are different but get to point B at the same time.

In the end, “how they communicate” (HID or MIDI) should not matter to you the end user, what’s important is performance and stability at plug & play and NOT that’s its HID or MIDI. Your USB keyboard and mouse are HID devices, but nobody jumps for joy over it, right?

Here’s a perfect example:
The HC5000 communicates with ITCH over HID, the HC4500 communicates with SSL by MIDI, they both provide the same rock solid performance.

All of the Denon Media Players are HID/MIDI.
The MIDI resolution of our S3700/S1200 platter data (in the upcoming update) has been doubled since the older post quoted from the serato team. This means the player should meet or come closer to Serato’s required resolution. However, native support will not be provided for these models as mutually agreed.

good info Sil,

Why has it been mutually agreed not to supply native control? this would be even one step further then hybrid mode (which is a great step btw), But (correct me if I am wrong) unfortunately for Serato users, Once in hybrid mode, none of the buttons will be lit which will stink in low light conditions, Maybe Serato will at least release a version that supports lighting up the mappable 3700 buttons?



so you're saying Serato devs didn't do it right? LOL

Brichi, because both products, S3700/S1200 have been out for a while and not specifically optimized for Serato, we agreed to work together on whatever "future" products that make sense for Serato users with perfect integration and native support out of the gate.

cool, looking forward to seeing what you guys team up to do,

Hope the DJ Expo was good, had to miss it this year with the baby coming, trying to save some $$$

Thats wonderful news, congrats to both of you !

Thank you!

Thank you Silvio for these important inputs.
I use my HC4500 for small gigs and at house, and Cdj's are used in Club.
I Will wait for a future Denon player... something like a 3800 lol It will be a 3700 completely integrated in Serato like my HC4500... A professionnal thing...for this i Sign :-)
Thanks,
Denon addict

... a player like this "3800" will be in many many many Club :-)

I'm glad we're finally talking this out.

I am one of those die hard Denon users and I have become an even bigger advocate for SSL. I have been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out why Serato would give Pioneer Native support and Denon seemingly just gets left out. It was not previously explained how far off the 3700 was from the capability. In fact, I started to suspect some sort of conspiracy not against Denon but me personally! I should probably apologize for saying I hoped New Zealand would sink into the ocean... I take that back. :)

It seemed like for years I sided with Denon and just had to make excuses but when the 3700s came out I felt completely ahead of the game... Until SSL 2.1 that is. Now that we know what's really up and what to expect from BOTH companies going forward... HOORAY! My favorites are working together and the future is once again looking bright!

I can't believe I'm saying this again but I can't wait to see what's next!

Let's just skip 3800 and go right to the 3900, okay? I can't take falling in and out of love again. I need to meet my Soul Mate, Denon! The DN-SM3900 :)

So basically both companies just don't care about those of us who got the 3700s hoping for eventual native support? We already bought both products so too bad for us?

If Denon has stepped up to improve the response to help bring it to the higher level of response SL says is needed then why not continue working together to make it work for us? Because because you both got our money and we're not woth the investment to make it work.

Very disappointing....

+1
Buy 3700...something Big is coming... lol

Thanks for the update and correction on MIDI HID Silvio.

I don't know how to feel. Yes I'm very upset the DN-S3700 will never have Native Support. Is outputting a few LED's that big of a problem for Serato? The screen and buttons are almost identical to the Native Supported DN-HC4500. I spent a lot of money on both products and now I have to invest in more equipment. However, Denon has done a great job with all the FREE firmware updates.

It also sounds like Serato did a lot of work trying to get the S3700 supported. Maybe if Denon engineers immediately worked on doubling the platter resolution when Serato was testing it, we could of had something great.

Why hasn't Serato upped their game on MIDI support? Where is LED output? Where is the powerful modifiers (Shift, layer)? Where is the MIDI output? Where is the BPM output (effects)?

I'm anxiously awaiting the DN-S3800 with full SSL Native Support. PLEASE NO ITCH SUPPORT! It doesn't even do video. Do I smell a new 3D model render coming?

JJ, thanks for your usual strong enthusiasm and passion for gear !

I do however want to squash the rumor that a 3800 is in the works with serato, answer is no and nothing on the table. The S3700 will remain our flagship player for some time.

When the time comes to replace the S3700, like in 2016, we will work closely with the serato team. ;)

I love my 3700 players. I just expected these fine companies would work together to bring us what we were hoping for with the native support.
The answers to this so far just say that they don't care about us who have already invested in these products and companies. Please prove me wrong and bring us native support instead of telling us that you will work together on FUTURE products.

wow

+1:
It's time to Denon to wake up. I've Started to play with Denon since DN 2500, and have gone with Pio with CMX 3000 and others and getted back to Denon with HC 4500.
Happy to got some gigs with 3700's of a friend but was waiting for native support... but now very disapointed. I'm thinking about a second come back with Pio with the 850 who will natively supported in Serato... will not wait for ANOTHER FUTURE product.

Thanks for the comments.

We think once you try our new and free Hybrid Mode, it may change your mind completely. Hybrid mode adds “native-like” support for serato/S3700 users. A pre-mapped file for the keys will be provided by Denon DJ.

Give it a try first, then hit us up with your comments.
Coming end of Sept.

Hi Silvio,

I completly imagine how it will be. It will like HD2500 (i've tested on off a friend too). No information on the player screen... In fact we can mix in midi mode...but it's not great, must always have a look on the computer screen ! I've already test and have some gigs on this mode since 1.8.0 version so, i imagine.
For 3700's owners... the new firmware will be cool because they will able to use the platter in Hybride mode... But for people who are mixing in midi mode since 1.8.0 and after with something like HC 4500 or CDJ 400... we cannot and don't want to use an "obsolete" mode (sorry for my english)

www.poweronplay.com

This video will show you how to create a custom Serato Scratch Live MIDI Map using Denon’s DN-S3700 Direct Drive table top CD player. I tried to explain the new HYBRID mode that Denon is releasing soon. By the way, there is no such thing as an SL2 as I said in the video. LOL

Great job JJ, thank you !

Great job JJ, will clear up a lot of questions people will have