Even Algoriddim's djay for iPhone is much better. It's a phone for god's sake! :)
And this from the developer of Pitch 'N Time - who partners with iZotope?
Sounds like a joke, right?

+1

Sound quality issues are very important for a modern DJ software

ye, you'd think Serato would have the BEST Key Shift... nope

the $ 0.99 djay app has 'em beat

I know many dis that really love Serato Dj, BUT they uses other softwares, because the key lock quality, when you change the pitch more than + o - 2 is really bad :(

Please, I hope you take into serious consideration this feature!

I would have to disagree on this one about the quality of the key lock being bad. Having be a Virtual DJ user for over 5 years now the key lock is terrible and is the only reason I moved to Serato Dj. Serato is flawless in key lock. I do find there is a bug though using version 1.5.1 sometimes when Serato DJ is started when the bass frequencies kick in you get clicks and pops no matter where the pitch and or key lock is and this happens spontaneously sometimes I have had to repair and or restart Serato DJ for this to go away.

Lee.

Sorry but Serato DOES NOT have flawless keylock, even in comparison to VDJ 7. You can't say Serato isn't bad when you're comparing it next to only ONE software.
Compare it to the zplane timestretching algorithm in Traktor, djay, Mixvibes, Torq, Virtual DJ 7 (I suggest you listen again) and you'll hear the difference instantly. Honestly, it's a no-brainer.

By their own admission over at Serato, they are looking towards improvements in this area and I for one welcome it. You only have to listen to the zPlane keylock algorithm and you'll soon realise why other DJ software have the advantage over Serato.

Do a search on the forum for the word "keylock" and you'll just realise how many threads are started regarding how bad it sounds when going over just a small pitch adjustment. If you really can't tell the difference then you may have lost frequencies in your hearing range (I have and can still tell).

The main reason we haven't seen what is probably regarded as the industry standard zplane technology incorporated into any Serato products is because they make their own high class VST plugin for other DAW software called Pitch in Time. It's amazing but can't be shoehorned into SDJ as it's just too much of a beast. They'd rather not buy in a timestretching algorithm from anyone else because of this which means us DJ users miss out. BIG TIME.

Who knows if one day they have a change of heart? Until then Virtual DJ 7 will whoop the ass of Serato DJ in the timestretching stakes every time (and so will any other DJ software that uses it too, both professional or not).

As for the clicking and popping Lee1984, that sounds like it could be the latency slider that needs increasing to me but could be wrong.

Mr Wilks +1 :D

Thats A lot of talk Mr Wilks. Have you used Virtual DJ?

The keylock on serato DJ is flawless compared to Virtual DJ.

The clicks and pops are a bug or something.

I have used it and there is a licenced copy in thee house.

I own fully licenced versions of Traktor, Torq, Ableton Live 8, Serato Itch, Scratch and DJ. By far the worst ones is Serato.

Traktor, Torq, Ableton Live 8 and VDJ 7 use zplane's timestrech algorithm so sound pretty much the same. Take a look at the link below at the list of software that use élastique from zplane. It's about halfway down. It's literally an A-list who's-who of audio software.

www.zplane.de

Here is just one of the many discussions regarding very poor keylock picked totally at random. My guess is that the thread will talk about how good the competition is compared to Serato.

Take a look: serato.com

All I'm saying is that Serato's DJ products are far from perfect and are regarded as pretty lame when only a minor pitch shift occurs.

For me Virtual DJ sucks. I use A ASIO sound card driver and no matter what latency the sound card is set to Virtual DJ Keylock is crap. I have the required specs for my PC and sound card and Virtual DJ struggles. On the exact same set up Serato DJ performs flawlessly even on extreme pitch changes.

Im not sure where you guys are going wrong but for me key lock in Serato DJ is perfect.

Please dont change it.

Was you using VDJ 7 or using a previous version? Zplane is in version 7 from the notes on zplanes website.

Did you have a glance at that this? serato.com

DJ Skillz first post even mentions VDJ.

I will say that a change and improvement will come eventually as Serato are now left behind. I really think Serato SHOULD improve and not keep it as it is. Why would anything not be improved? Progression is the reason we aren't on Scratch Live V1.0 as things just get better over time with each release.

The best test is to run Virtual DJ 7 and any Serato product into the same mixer at the same time with the same track.

Pitch to 10% and I know Serato will sound bad first.

Zplane does use a bit more grunt on the CPU but any modern computer can handle it with ease.

I think this keylock quality issue is now even more important than before. This is because more and more DJs are also producers and anyone who has spent some time producing and mixing will have a greater ability to spot flaws in audio and is also always listening critically.

I hope the keylock is improved as I think its one of the most important things right now.

Besidfes that, I'm happy with SDJ and looking forward to see what it will evolve into :)

I have the latest version of Virtual DJ.

For me the quality of the key lock doesnt warrant it to be called terrible.

If it can be improved of course improve it im just saying if it aint broke dont fix it.

+ 1000 and agreed. Time to improve this. Has been lagging behind for too long. Make it a priority please Serato!

But it is broke... audibly. You just have to look around this thread at what others are saying.

When playing on sound systems that cost tens of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros then it's seriously noticeable.
We need an algorithm that doesn't make our 320 mp3s sound even worse lol.

The guy who started the thread you posted is using a Vista home operating system and the lowest specs for Serato DJ is Windows 7.

It is not broke. It works perfect.

Maybe you are referring to the quality of the DACs in Serato sound cards.

I noticed a difference between conectiv and the serato sound card I have but not enough to warrant such a up roar of bad comments on it.

Well... Serato hasn't changed it's keylock for years. It sounded the same from XP to Vista to Win 7 to (I assume) Win 8.

The specs of Vista aren't really a factor here. It's about a poor algorithm that needs updating as it's as old as time began. CPU and other hardware specs can play a part in decoding issues but this isn't the case as he's running Vista (it sounded as bad four years ago when I was on Vista).
This keylock in SDJ came from Scratch Live. Hop on over to that forum and count how many threads are asking for a new keylock. They all can't be wrong. There is literally hundreds of posts that have raged on for years.

While other companies are ramping up their keylock quality by outsourcing to zplane and other keylock companies, Serato are lagging way behind in quality by going alone.

I still have a Conectiv, and an SL3 and although the M-Audio hardware wasn't as polished in the Conectiv, Torq came with zplane's keylock and was used through that, smashing the Serato SL3 to bits concerning keylock and that was four years ago.

The overall sound from the software is not bad at all from Serato and quite good. This isn't the issue. The issue is the AUDIO ARTIFACTS when time stretching that is done in the software and not in the hardware.

Just slow down the track over -10% and listen to the double beats and clicks. It kicks in less than that but it's more noticeable at greater speeds.

It does NOT work perfectly as there would be no cause for the (literally hundreds of) forum posts/threads asking for an updated keylock, just like this thread is asking.

Serato even acknowledge they need to improve it... so how can it be perfect? We even tested a new keylock algorithm about four years ago that made it worse!

100%Agree with you,keylock in Itch and Dj isn't a great thing..i use a 2012 MacbookPro and it's not an hardware problem,i'm using Mixvibes Cross Dj and keylock\timestretching is a lot better than Serato's software..i never heard SSL..anyone can say if is better than Dj?

It's exactly the same in good ol' SSL. I just hope they wheel out improvements one day.

It sounds to me as if you are not even listening to your own opinion. Do you think it needs to be changed?



I slow or speed up way past +/-10 % and it works no problem for me.

This has confused me a little? My opinion is that it sounds pretty bad and has done for years. That's the general consensus of everyone else posting on the keylock forum threads and was reflected in what I written.

My only problem is trying to get you to understand that it's a poor, outdated algorithm used in Serato's DJ product range and has been noted for years.



It works as in 'fulfils it's purpose of a keylock' but only for the reason that it lets us adjust the pitch and not the key. Unfortunately it sounds terrible when going through big pitch changes, hence why it needs improving and not "perfect" as you have stated numerous times.

I honestly don't think you have heard what a quality keylock sounds like or you would agree with every other person posing that it needs improvement. People are jumping in all over to agree it needs updating.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Serato fanboi and started on an SL1 with Scratch Live and moved up to the SL3. I have a Novation Twitch and gigged that with Serato Itch and now Serato DJ. That's three separate Serato products and all sound the same when keylock is turned on. Poor.

If I get the chance I'll run a test with the same track on Ableton Live 8 and Serato DJ and record the results. I don't quite know why I would do it as it's clear to everyone else but I think you need to hear a good quality algorithm in other software.

This has confused me a little? My opinion is that it sounds pretty bad and has done for years. That's the general consensus of everyone else posting on the keylock forum threads and was reflected in what I written.

My only problem is trying to get you to understand that it's a poor, outdated algorithm used in Serato's DJ product range and has been noted for years.

I had a good test with Serato DJ at tempo ranges outside of 8-/+ and yes some tracks that are bass heavy get clicks and pops and does sound bad I will agree with you there.

The problem I have with Virtual DJ algorithm is that tracks that are bass heavy it can not process the bass correctly resulting in a dull and offput bassline and to me sounds worse than Serato DJ.

I mean the algorithm in Serato DJ may sound bad at high or low pitches but as a DJ program is fine for DJing and going in and out of beat by 3 or 4 beats.

Virtual DJ Test [url]picosong.com[/url]

Serato DJ Test [url]picosong.com[/url]

Moving within around +/- 3% in Serato is generally regarded as okay and quite adequate and I can't tell the difference at low pitch variations. It's really about 5% that the artifacts start to show up and when I start hitting the 8% mark it's really noticeable and to someone on the dancefloor too. It's as noticeable as dropping a 192kbps mp3 in the middle of a set where only high quality mp3s have been used.
I do stretch this far when mixing different genres or deep house into house and can got from 116bpm to 124bpm instantly or sometimes hiphop/R&B around the 87bpm mark to the 105bpm mark. With these changed of +/-8% you can noticeably hear the introduced artifacts into the track and sounds pretty rough. However, with the zplane algorithm included in all the other major DJ software, the tracks sound so much more 'natural' and like they originally did and don't sound over processed like in Serato products.

This doesn't stop me using Serato but leaves me hoping one day that we will have an improved keylock that will rival the quality of the other guys and help my mixes sound as tight as they do on Traktor. The double beats at 10% when mixing sound awful.
We are in an age now where in bars/clubs we can mash up the night to keep people interested on the floors with cross-genre transitions and with the technology we have and the tools they give us, we are able to reach new highs. I just feel that by using Serato we have been left to 'make do' with a keylock that Noah was using on the ark while the other kids have supreme quality when they use other software.

A sync locked pitch transition is one of my favourites and to take a 90 BPM R&B track and sync it with a 126 BPM club track, hit a loop and wind that pitch slowly over 16 or 32 beats and pump the crowd. You can only imagine what a 126 track sounds like at 90 or 100 BPM in Serato. Baaaaad.

A good test is to listen to a Serato at -15% or over it's original pitch. Then listen to the rivals at the same pitch. The rivals still sound great at 50% believe it or not!

This is the unfortunate trade off of using keylock in general and isn't really one product at fault but the process of what keylock is.

How we get the keylock effect is to take thousands of tiny thinly shaved bits out of the song.
Think of it as adding or taking slices of bread at spaced intervals out of a loaf to make it longer (or shorter). The bread is the same height and width but is now different in length.
If you remove or add on a beat then you will get a thinner sounding kick and other undesired side effects as you are removing slices of audio which thin out the kicks. This is always the case from CDJs to zplane to Serato.

The question is how good the software is at masking the said artifacts. While zplane mask it pretty well and still keep the track sounding relatively normal at greater pitch adjustments, Serato's keylock causes pops and clicks when it's slicing EXACTLY on the down beat, even after small pitch tweaking.

There was a new algorithm to test a few years back in Scratch Live trying to improve this by not slicing exactly perfect 4/4. It was aimed at trying to reduce that by being a little variable (like a human drummer). It never made it as it just didn't quite cut it and caused other problems.

So as a DJ program, Serato DJ it's fine if only moving +/-3%?

Yup. It is. I can't tell the difference here too and when I play my house music sets in the clubs in Europe it's fine (although at that tempo I usually turn off keylock altogether).

The downside is many DJs don't just stick to one genre especially in bars or party clubs. I have to mix everything often and it shows on my sets.

Also, "as DJ a program if fine for DJing" means it's fine for your purpose but I don't know your style? It maybe perfect for you but it's not for us cross-genre jocks who want more. This is why I said it wasn't perfect in my first post. Just because someone has never experienced an issue doesn't make a product perfect. You hadn't really pushed it to find out poor it could be and when you did the clicks, pops and double beats came out to play.

I just thought. After around 50% pitch the keylock actually turns itself off in SSL! Haha! It sounds that bad.
If you may think why would anyone what to go beyond 50% then think of a transition or effect like Fatboy Slim's 'Rockafella Skank' where it slows down in the middle "Theeeeeeeee fuuuuuuuuuunk sooooooooul brooooooooootherrrrrrrrrrrrrr".
Ironically using a good keylock as it sounds smooth (probably using Pitch in Time from Serato as a VST?).

Either way, I feel it would be a welcome addition to get better control over our sound quality. You can go to 100% in Traktor and the zplane sounds ace getting that Fatboy effect. Serato's keylock shuts off at just over 50% in Scratch Live (may also be DJ too but may remember Itch going to 100%?).

Im not sure if you have tried MixMeister Studio but the keylock in that is really good.

Compared to Serato DJ and Virtual DJ.

I tested A track going from 129BPM to 150 BPM and back down to 100 BPM no problem.

Im not sure if that algorithm is possible to be employed in DJ programs im not that educated to know.

I still do not believe that Virtual DJ has such a great algorithm which was in one of your first posts and was why I was not happy with the whole lets change the key lock idea.

Just a thought but did you change the keylock quality in the VDJ set up? I just thought that there is an option in there for slower machines to reduce the quality and it could have defaulted to the lower one? Virtual DJ 7 uses the superior zplane so not sure why it doesn't sound better at greater pitch variations? Previous versions of VDJ I think didn't have the zplane keylock so won't sound as good.

In Virtual DJ 7.3 I think it's in: Config ---> Performances.

Unfortunately we can't swop out the keylock in Serato which would be amazing. You can get amazing plugins though for music production that stretch the audio but we are stuck until they improve it.

Mixmeister has a pretty good keylock as I have the Fusion version. I do like MM and feel it's a shame it's not had an update in years.

Zplane even run on iPad and Android devices now.

I was told to leave it on fast stretching on Virtual DJ forums.

I changed to advanced stretching and it did make A significant improvement.

The best I have heard it sound in Virtual DJ.

On the greater scale A lot better than Serato DJ.

If only Serato will give us that level of quality I'll be a happy happy guy :(

The thing is, they do know it isn't on par with any of the competition and even get stick from respected DJ bloggers.

This review of the NS7 II which only went live last night on DJ Worx draws reference to it.



The launch of the highly anticipated flagship DJ controller and they get slated for a key lock that was too messy to use with a 10% pitch down. I do expect an improvement at some point but I'm not holding my breath for anything in the near future.

Have a little read over the review. It's a beast of a controller and I'll seriously consider one of these soon.

djworx.com

It looks nice, looks very similar to the Pioneer DDJ SX except the middle section is missing the level controls for master etc. giving more room for the decks section.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000!
Please get this fixed Serato! It's basic functionality that a 10 year old cdj can do better than sdj atm.

+1 ^e Key Detection AND Transposition. Aside from every other good software being capable of this, I see it as a necessity as a musician.

It don't sound so bad like it does on r n b music.

+1000.

The Keylock (master tempo) in SDJ definitly needs improvement. I'd even say a full re-engineering from scratch.

It sounds very similar to the now 15-years old time stretch effect in Soundforge 1.5!

My ears are maybe over-sensitive to the specific artifacts introduced by this Serato algorhythm, but I can hardly pass +/- 2% before being put off by the signature bubble-like sound. Specially on sustained notes (which is kinda normal I guess).

Please improve the keylock...

Please Serato, get this fixed ASAP.

If it is a question of money, I'd easily pay 30 USD for this feature alone and I'm sure there are other users who would even pay if they could get a proper keylock.

I'd pay for it because I'm really getting tired of waiting for a feature which should be considered one of the most basic features a DJ software needs and it should have been working perfect long ago before you started adding hardware support, blue colored played tracks, new fx packs etc.

From what I have been able to read on the forum, this is not only a high priority issue for me, but for a large part of the Serato users community and it should therefore be at the top of your list as well.

Where's the Large All Caps Bold button? This absolutely was a necessity before the $20 FX packs, and if it's gonna cost me $20-$30 for you guys to rip Pitch-N-Time apart and make it SDJ friendly, so be it. Where do I send the check? This is the type of thing that's supposed to be easier to implement, now that the softwares are consolidated, correct?

Or just license elastique like everyone else :p

PnTiiiiiiiiiime ;)

Serato has finally solved the problem, Pitch N Time Dj is fantastic. Some may not agree because it is a plugin for a fee, but I'm just glad that you have resolved the problem, do not send me $ 29 in ruins;) Thanks Serato!

DJVaage

I think Serato heard you and was able to make it $1 cheaper than u were willing to pay. :-)
I think it's worth every penny

Yes I think they heard us. Pitch N Time is what Serato was famous for, long before DJs played with mp3s.
For those of you who do not know: Pitch N Time was originally only available as a Plugin for Digidesign TDM Hardware. That means very expensive gear for the most high end digital music studios in the world. Serato simply had the best sounding Time Stretching algorithm in the world.
I know Serato Scratch live since its beginning and I have been waiting for this day for a very long time! I always knew that it would come some day.
And now the dream came true!!!
:-))))
-But I am also very very sad, that I have to chose between the Bridge in Scratch Live and Serato Pitch N Time which comes only for Serato DJ. Well thats another topic....

Well, I realize Serato won't do any more development for SSL, but perhaps adding P'n'T as a paid plug-in - now that they have the code for it and all that - wouldn't require all that much development?

Seeing that there are many people not really interested (or hard pressed in any case) in going the SDJ way, and just as many who are but are reluctant/afraid to do it just yet, perhaps being able to purchase P'n'T and use it with SSL for now, and SDJ later on (sort of like you can do with Serato Video) wouldn't be a bad move? Especially since it wouldn't really be adding any new features to it, but merely improving the existing (and important) one? Just a thought...