You are missing something. Have a read of the Pioneer manual.

I read it, and tried it. It sucks. There should be a mode to jump to saved loops with the touch pads.

I had the same question but to activate loops, not to launch them. I had the answer on the page 54 of the Serato DJ manual. You can use an external midi controller to trigger loops in Serato. I think I will use my M-Audio Trigger Finger for that, the 16 pads are perfect for that. I have lent it to a friend, but when it will be back I will test it and give you the answer on this discussion.

Same here. I want an easier way to trigger my last used loop and I want Serato to save that last loop setting for each track when i recall that track

Forgot one more thing: I want my last screen option to be saved so that when I relaunch Serato, I dont have click on the loops box every time and locate the loop Im looking for.
SAVE THE SCREEN SETTINGS PLEASE.

+1, I need a keyboard shortcut for jump to loop. Getting to it on the screen with the mouse or touchpad isn't cutting it for me.

You can jump to any of your saved loops using the controller. Why are you using the mouse?

I see, ok i found it thanks.

How can this with controler?

Shift & the loop out button/reloop.

+ another button lets you scroll through the loop slots to choose the one you want.

Ok but no easy way

And must look the software with this way the better is hit the one of 8 pads and save loop 4 or 8 or 16 beat and after recall one for us...

Of these .....

The loop slot select should start from slot 1.

Save loop select works on VCI380 via the pads. Now I Too wish it is on the DDJSX also.

+1

There's 8 pads to trigger 8 cues, so why not 8 loops, or 4 cues & 4 loops?
Would highly appreciate this!

+1
loops are as important as hot cues

+1

Hey, we got the Slicer instead......

This is actually a good idea. Using the parameter keys on the DDJ-SX does change settings with roll, slicer and sampler.

It could be a cool solution to map 3 different parameter settings to the Hot Cue mode: 8 Hot Cues, 8 Loops or 4 Hot cues and 4 Loops (Top row could be hot cues and bottom row could be loops).

These different settings could be easily set by using the parameter keys.

+1

I would really like to be able to trigger loops from the DDJ-SX.

+1

Great idea.

Why can´t I change from cue to loop with a shortcut on my DDJ-SX?

+1. Definitely a good workaround !

But why can´t I jump from Hot Cues to Loops using a shortcut on the DDJ-SX????????
Am I missing the shortcut or is the design of the Serato mapping just really bad…..?

Mis ik de snelkoppeling of is het ontwerp van de Serato mapping gewoon echt slecht .....?

er is er maar 1 die de plank misslaat en dat is serato . bah bah t een slechte , zeer slechte back up . geen goed woord voor over . serato sucks.

Hey guys,

You can toggle through the loops on the DDJSX by using the SHIFT + IN/Slot Select buttons on the hardware.
This will allow you to then activate the loop by pressing SHIFT + Loop/Loop Active.

Hopefully this helps..

I agree,


Matt P

Yes, I know that but do you have use it in intensive live condition?

It is not comfortable at all. If you are in an environment with low light it is very easy to press the wrong button, and in some case destruct your programmed loop.

The selection of the loop go in one direction, if you want to select the previous loop you have to press the button 7 times!

To add some difficulties since SD 1.4 or 1.5 (do not remember) you cannot have the full list in front end (only 5, previously it was 8) and as the listing does not scroll automatically with your selection you do not know where you are after the 5th loop. I still do not understand why you have done this change. If someone at Serato can explain why it is better to see 5 programmed loops or cues than the 8 that you can use?

Hi AxelGiqueaux,


Yeah I use it all the time.

This is something that is hardware specific. Pioneer are the hardware manufacturers and have designed and silk screened the DDJSX to operate this way. It would involve a conversation with them to redesign the hardware for a different mapping.



This is the one thing I find difficult, and I could see this changing.



In Serato DJ you have always had the option to have the full 8 loops displayed, or 8 cue points, or a combination of the two.
The view mode of both is the only thing that has changed. Just select the Loop view mode to see all 8 loops.

Matt P

thanx matt for responding . we appreciate your comments .

maybe its better to split up the website in mixers . then everybody can follow there own mixer problems and features . now i am spitting thru 100 sites to look for ddj-sx troubles shooter .

Thanks Matt for your fast answer


Previously we could see 8
i39.tinypic.com
Now I see 5
i39.tinypic.com
If i select the 6th loop from the ddj-sx i see the same 5 loops, the list does not scroll down automatically.
i39.tinypic.com
I have to use the mouse to see the 3 others loops. Before that i did not touch the computer during the live, now I have to

Hi AxelGiqueaux,

Ahh right, I see what you mean. Yes scrolling is the issue here. Point taken.

Can we get some other peoples opinions on this?

Matt P

Thanks Matt

Yes please go back to the 8 memories in the view!

Even if you adjust the scroll to the played loop we will not know if we are at the 6th or 7th loop, or if there is a 8th loop programmed.

You have more than enough space to put the functionalities that are below the list of cues/loops to the border. It is better for the user to have in front of him all the informations in one time. Why use the mouse to have all of them? A music software with many informations on screen seems more powerfull for the (basic) user.

My use of SDJ is a littlebit non conventional as I use it to remix live for my band, but the future of digital mix is not known, please do not add limitations like this one.
Live with my band : youtu.be

For those who want to trigger saved loops with an external midi device I have tried 2 MIDI pads with the DDJ-SX on Windows, here are my experiences :

The M-Audio Trigger Finger :
There is a problem with the Windows driver and nothing works by default. But if you use it with the Evolution Uc-33e everything is OK. I know it is strange there is no logical answer for that but if you want to use a M-Audio Trigger Finger you need an Evolution Uc-33e, and everything is recognized in Serato DJ. It is a lot of controllers for only 16 pads :).

The Korg nanoPAD2 :
I had many troubles with it, nothing was working in Serato DJ, it was hell. Finally I have found a solution, i explain it in this post : serato.com
Now I use the Korg nanoPAD2 it is small and works well but you need more than Serato DJ to use it in Serato DJ.

i never use so many saved loops in one song . i put them in a hot que and push them "live"
into the song . i just hold the one i want for 4 beats or 2 ....

While slicer is kinda cool, it's impractical. I would like a software option to use the slicer as loop control

i never use the slicer . impractical .

+1

Good idea

Again It's a good idea, it seems DDJ-SX users really want a workaround for this loop control thing. I saw Matt P posts and in my opinion, the solution with shift + IN/Slot select is just impractical in a live DJ set, too many steps for "just" start a saved loop. I think an easy way could be found...

digital dj ing is more like a producer. you quit with a loop , combine with the intro from the next song and work on it with an fx . sometimes i have 4 loops running and just working on them with the fx pack .
also in the middle of the song you loop and tease the crowd with the highlight from the next song . also in a loop or hot que ...

digital is all about building a mix with loops.

Hey guys,

So you just want a more accessible way of turning on/off your saved loops?

So for example let's say there was a new mode that worked like this :
• Pads 1-8 simply mapped to slots 1-8 On/Off.
• Press pad to turn saved loop on/off.
• Pressing an empty pad while a loop active saves the new loop
• SHIFT + Pad performs Reloop

Thoughts?

Speaking in hypotheticals of course.

+1

What about holding shift + Hot Cues mode to enter Loop mode and the pads work then in the same way as they do with hot cues

+ 100 . are we getting somewhere ?

by the way , i ve got my saved loops in the sampler . what i want is light up the light from the pads in which loop it is .. and automatic sync on the sampler bij pushing the fader up . (you cannot sync them on your headphone)

ddj-sx

Yes Logan D +1

Hope the hypothetical can be concrete :)

+1 Logan.

The goal should be to eliminate any scrolling and provide quick access to loops via pads. I'd apply similar thinking for activating / deactivating autoloops too.

Excited that you guys are exploring this!

+ 8 on this

Logan, that is exactly what I (we?) want!
+1

Sorry for the double post, but in case you missed my suggestion, a settings check box to turn the Slicer into a loops section would be perfect in my book

remove the slicer ..... agree

Removing the slicer is a terrible idea. What about all the users that love slicer? We'd just be making you guys happy and pissing off other people ;)

There's no reason we can't have both. I think SHIFT + ROLL mode would be a good place for this mode to live. So we keep the two loop modes together. We might be needing the SHIFT + HOT CUE mode in the future for something else so we'd like to leave that open for now if we can.

Thoughts?

Could it be made to "toggle" between roll and loop triggers? That would be satisfactory.
If we would have to press shift every time we wanted to trigger a loop, that would kinda suck, but it'd be better than no loop triggers.

maybe its possible to do it in the off mode to change the slicer into loopings . then everybody can choose there mapping

How about shift + main loop roll allows you to trigger saved loops by hitting the pads. BUT whilst in normal loop roll mode, pressing shift + a pad sets a loop going at the default length and continues until the pad is pressed again. So its like holding down a pad in normal loop roll mode, but your hand is free.

For me its just as important, if not more so, to be able to trigger a track into a loop (without having to hold a pad) as to trigger a saved loop.

+ 100000!!

+1 for better loop control with the pads

Some really good ideas in this post for implementation.

Looking forward to seeing this come to fruition.

:)

+1 again for good luck

+1000 Logan D.

Please make my dreams come true in a future version of Serato DJ.

Looks like the new DDJ-SZ can trigger saved loops from the pads...i really hope the SX will be able to do it too.

More info: www.pioneerelectronics.com

+

I reckon this means the sx wont be able to. We've all paid for one, given feedback on how it could be improved. They listened and put the features on the sz, and now if we want those features we have to pay for a new unit.

From pios point of view it makes sense not to allow the sx to do this

Anyone of Serato Staff could answer us ?

Is it a feature reserved for the DDJ-SZ ? Or maybe a little hope is permit for the DDJ-SX ?

Sorry, but I have no information on if its reserved or not, nor do i know if it will be implemented on the DDJS-SX.




Matt P

And the next controller after SZ will also have Quantize and Snap? ;-)
#Traktor

Hi JuriV,

Serato DJ beta already has a quantize Cue points function :)

Give it a try here - serato.com

Matt P

Hi

Would there be an easy way to use the shift + loop roll as a kinda latch. So that when the 8th pad is pressed in loop roll mode along with shift, it stays on a 16 beat loop. (if selected).

So loop roll acts normally
Loop roll and shift acts as loop mode for selected beat length.

It's not used anyway is it?

Keef

Hi Matt P,

Thanks for the tip. Can I try the beta next to the stable version on the same system, and is it compatible with earlier versions of Mac OS X than Mavericks?

Grts,
Juri

I was really hoping you would be wrong about this...but looks like you could be spot on.

HI JuriV,

Yes you can install both versions and they will work together safely.

The beta version is compatible with OS 10.6.8 and above but not fully supported for mavericks, as it is a Beta version. If you find any issues be sure to post in the beta area so we can fix them.

Matt P

It's working fine for me on Mavericks

While were on the subject of looping is the quantize function going to be implemented or better yet an additional options check box to quantize the loop in/out features? love the feature on the que points keep up the good work.

Thanks Matt, I'll look into it.

HI DJ ProEp,

Quantized cues are in the beta and therefore included in the upcoming 1.6 release.

Technically speaking if you activate a loop and have a cue point set, you'll get a similar function. That is all I have for you on that for now though :)

Matt P

Still awaiting word on the ability to hot trigger saved loops. Also, pretty sure this is not included in the DDJ SP1 either. Is there a way to hot trigger saved loops in the SP1 that I'm missing?

Rory Heath,

Yeah, its in the Manual loop/Loop active section. What you need to do is press shift and the Slicer button and you are in the manual loop mode, then press the Loop Active button.
You can scroll through your loop slots on the far right pads to select which slot you want active

Matt P

Don't mean to be rude...but entering secret codes is not really user friendly.

Is there a way to kill the slicer and midi it to my loop triggers on the SX also on the SP1? I've used the LPD8 and the Launchpad but would love to midi my SX and SP1

@matt P is there a way to do so on the pads so that loop 1 is triggered by pad 1, loop 2 triggered by pad 2, etc? Seems like a no brainer there.

Hi Rory Heath,

Not currently, the Loop panel was designed to take care of this.



it appears that you are not alone in thinking this, however it was not originally designed this way, rather, only for loop roll and slicer.

Matt P

I get what y'all are saying. It's just so nice to be able to control those 8 loop triggers on pads. It also helps me cheat a little and control 16 cue points if configured right.

Any plans in the future to augment these and the SP6 features?

I know its a popular request, so it will definitely be reviewed and considered. Just not sure if it will be or not.
I couldn't tell you anyway if it was ;)

Matt P

I spent all day yesterday making a Sp-6/Loop trigger layout for TouchOSC, love having the ability to trigger the loops with the push of one button on my tablet.

Such an easy thing with such a big payoff. Though the FLIP somewhat achieves the same goal, it's still big being able to do so.

Yeah, easy if you're not OCD lol. But I should be able to customize the layout easier now for flip, just need to change some labels. Plus, its set up to trigger the loops to record Flips with.

It seems our desperately wanted feature is included with the DDJ-SX2, too bad we have to buy another gear to make it work...

Judging from the images of the SX2, you still have to press shift first to trigger saved loops. Still not good enough for me. I already forgot about it, just placing cue points at outro's so I can retrigger when it they run out.

Sheisty move by Pioneer. Pioneer could hae just given us that functionality 2 years ago, we would have still considered buying the sx2. Not just that, I do wonder why the Vestax 380 is DVS ready, but not the sx1??

Hey guys, this feature may actually be able to be implemented. There are some physical limitations to the DDJ-SX1 but this isn't actually one of them.


Matt P

Well all right, all right Matt P!

We have so much UNUSED pad room on the SX1 that I'd love to see it used like it was promised to us. Saved Loops, flip control, and maybe some pre-determined loop length mapped to each pad?? *Praying hands*. Nah, but for real i'd just like to be able to do most things in serato DJ on ONE controller- The SX1 without having to add in another Midi controller just so I can map a very basic button to em. (Flip controls and Saved Loops are my big hoped for things here).

Would it be possible to have a user defined, customizable layer for one of the pads layers?

Thanks!

Also, I love the saved loops function because it gives me 8 more points that I can save and play with.

-I can use these slots to set a place to jump to
-I can perform with these saved loops like they're hot cues, playing them momentarily, jumping between saved loops and saved hot cues
- I can HOPEFULLY use these saved loops with Flip eventually, to play sections of a song and loop them, on the fly, as needed.
-I can mark out key parts of the songs to come back to (16 bars of song, or a break down)
-I can save certain drum hits so that I can pull them up in the SP6 and drum with them.

In the end, I get 16 saved points to play with as needed, be they drum hits, cues, mixpoints, loops, or whatever, I get 16 parts of the song that are SAVED as metadata, that I can use to craft the mix how I like. And now, I get to use them as tools for when I make my own flips. Its a pretty simple bit of programming that all of us DDJ-SX1 users would love to have.

Well, that and better recording options, but thats a whole different forum

Rory Heath,



There is a mapping for flip controls on the SX1 coming. (not sure if I was meant to tell you that) but i know that for sure. The other ones with the saved loops i'm still unsure of.

But customizable option for midi mapping isn't something i'm aware of.

Stay tuned

Matt P

Yup the SX will have FLIP controls mapped, and we will be adding a saved loop mode to the SX in an update too :)

Here is our Hero !
Thanks a lot Matt & Logan for these precious informations :D

Thanks y'all!! Can't wait!!

This is great news!

But can we please, please, please get the 'saved loop mode' for the SX in 1.7?

Or at least an hint to when we can expect that update (ie. are we talking weeks, months, or years?)

Its available in the latest beta now: serato.com

WHOOOP WHOOOOP

Oh yeah, its Shift and Loop Roll to activate and display saved loops on the pads :)

wordddddddd

Matt P and Serato: Ok, I just tried it out and I have feedback for y'all.

So here's how its setup for me.

Shift and Loop Roll gives me saved loops, with the loop roll button flashing the whole damn time.

In the mode, just pressing pads 1-8 turns those particular saved loops on and off, without jumping the needle to that position. (Cool additional feature y'all added in, thank y'all for that pretty cool).

In the mode shift+ pad 1-8 jumps the needle to the respective saved loop, and activates that loop. It also jumps the needle to the beginning of the loop everytime, as sort of a "hot loop" as I prefer to call it, though y'all don't. Lets call it a hot, trigger loop.

Now I love that y'all unlocked this for us, it saves me from adding in another midi controller and gives me 8 new points in the file to be able to play with, BUT I'd like the 2 modes to be switched. Instead I'd like the hot trigger loops to be done just by pressing pad 1-8 and the on/ off of each loop to be triggered by shift+ pad 1-8.

Here's why:
-If I'm using the pads to finger drum hot trigger loops, I'm usually gonna need that other hand to be on the crossfader and not holding down the little shift button.

-If I mistakenly think I'm in hot trigger loop mode when I'm really in Hot Cue mode, I'm gonna erase my saved cue points pretty fast this way and be a little pissed at myself. I think the likelihood of this happening in the on/off saved loop mode is less likely as I'll be moving pretty gingerly turning on and off loops instead of finger drumming saved loops as I intend to be doing, and other users could be doing.

Also, I love that the pad blinks for whatever saved loop that's playing. Really cool. Please leave that in. Also, it reminds me that I'm in saved loop mode. very much a plus.

I agree.

It would have been consistent, if shift-pad would always be a delete function. Both for cues and loops.

I like the idea of having a 'hot loop' mode. Shift-[hot cue] could be used to enter this mode.

Still that said - I love having access to loops via pads.

I fully support Rory Heath's analysis and suggestions. The scheme he proposes would also help a lot when doing, for example, fashion shows and many other gigs in which triggering saved loops is a core feature.

Many thanks to Rory for taking time to do this.

Hey Rory Heath,

Totally get what you're saying, and in your scenario having the primary action 'jump' makes a lot of sense. You have to remember that the way a lot of DJs use saved loops is simply turning them on/off without jumping though. We've noticed more use loops like this rather than re-looping. Also having the primary action perform a re-loop can be a little dangerous if you're just expecting it to turn on.

Having said that we're always open to feedback on these things :)

That is true, but further analysis of the average workflow makes me think my recommendation of the hot trigger loop function being primary as more appropriate.

-For those DJs that you speak of that are turning on a loop, Serato Flip is very soon going to be more relevant.
-DJs not using flip could still "time" the saved loop jump live
-Hot Trigger Loops are better primary as operating the crossfader, pressing shift AND pressing the pad is going to be difficult.
- the Inverse is more appropriate, especially as the fader is more than likely going to be open if the loop is being turned on and off without the needle jump.
--For example: say that I am playing a song, and after the second verse, I ALWASY loop the chorus as part of my set and usual combo, then mix in another song that uses the same words "everybody jump" or something like it. I'm going to load track 1, feel the vibe out, then probably activate the loop so that the song loops when it gets there some 2 minutes later. During this moment I am not going to need to even touch the crossfader, my main song is already playing. Then when the loop finally happens, I'll then operate the crossfader and mix in song #2. BUT the crossfader action and the saved loop ON will rarely NEED to happen at the same time.
--In the case of saved trigger hot looping (I just keep adding words to this naming) I will most certainly be needing to use the crossfader while I'm pressing the pad. I could even be finger drumming in the first beat of a loop that I'm going to need to be looped immediately.

-Also, as it stands right now, its difficult to see which saved loop you turn on, without the needle jumping to it, its something you're always going to have to trigger to see. And if you do remember, then at that point you're going to probably just make a FLIP of it or need to utlilize the trigger anyways.


My executive summary and pitch on this issue is this:

In strong light of the new FLIP feature and its implied future expansion, mapping the Saved Loop Trigger as the primary pad function in that mode makes sense because It lets them "hot" loop trigger a pad and record it as part of a flip. One of the intended uses of Flip is to help automate a consistent action, be it finger drumming, playing certain verses out of order, eliminating chorus', etc. In this case, FLIP has actually elimnated the primary use of the saved loop on/off primary pad argument, because it does better what the on/off user would do, and if they do still need to use it live, its available, just with pressing the shift button in combination with the pad.

The primary pad (NOT shift+) feature is reserved for more "performance based" actions, such as hot cues, loop rolls, etc. and I'm hoping Hot Trigger Loops. In this case its not that the on/off is less deserving, its just that the workflow flows better if its the hot trigger loop as a primary. Hot triggering loops is going to be in quick succession, hitting numerous pads back to back and operating the crossfader all very quickly. If triggering on/off, its going to be a slow process, with only 3 buttons hit and the corssfader not touched. It just works better.

Finally put: FLIP takes care of the on/ off loop user's needs already, and having the trigger as primary has better synergy with the flip record/ performance nature, pressing that tiny shift button everytime I want to trigger a quick loop hit is going to get tedious and is unnecessary to be honest.

sorry for the essay, just wanted to be thorough. ha

Also @Matt P and Logan D, Is there a way to share an mp3 on here so that y'all can see the metadata on it? ie the saved loops data?

Damn, I feel like you need to cite some references/footnotes in there haha.

I do understand where you are coming from, and I think the best point you make is how re-looping is a performance thing where you often need your other hand, where as with turning a loop on you usually have the luxury of time (well...more time anyway). I still think we have to remember though that for your average DJ he/she just wants to quickly jump into that mode and press a pad to turn something on. That's how most people use it - I'm sure you'll agree with me there. And changing this around would complicate that fundamental use of this feature that we know is how most people use it. How many of these people will learn they need to press SHIFT just to perform the most basic action of a saved loop? How many of these people will go to turn a loop on and have their track playing live jump prematurely? HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE RORY.

Regarding FLIP though, you're making assumptions about how people will use it, and remember not everyone will be using it as it's an expansion pack. So changing how a fundamental feature like saved loops works due to FLIP is probably not the best idea.

Have you ever used Hot Loop mode? Some of the other supported Serato DJ controllers have it - it's essentially just the Cue Point mode but when you jump to the cue point it sets an autoloop, and you use the parameter buttons to half/double the loop size. Sounds like this mode would suit your needs quite well.

hahahaha. NOT ENOUGH YET!

I definitely could use a footnote feature in here.

Gonna try to keep this one to under a page and a half.


Trigger as a primary certainly makes sense from the crossfader user perspective. Y'all have been pushing the performance aspect of DJing for a while now, what better way than this. Those using the on/off will always have the loop controls of the ddj-sx to get them there, it's not a very button intensive process. I need my other hand for the crossfader and not the shift button.





These people can safely use the already established looping controls on the far right side of the DDJ-SX. Also, lets not forget that this loop on/off is piggybacking onto the saved loops feature being added.




I have not used this feature on other controllers, I'm a proud DDJ-SX person for size, weight, price, features offered and jog wheel (love the feel of the new update BTW). We're talking about the DDJ-SX here. Also, with this new pad mode, I can replicate that, except the loop length isn't set on the fly its pre determined and I just have to 1/2 on down to it of 2-double up to it.

and now... mind-essss-plode time.

There's an unexpected use of this approach.

peep the link:

anonfiles.com

[url]anonfiles.com[/url]


Check out saved loops 2-5 of the old Faith Evans song, I can now load these little drum hits into the SP6 as one shot loops, as a non-looping trigger and play each drum as an MPC like thing. I could also, treat this as a choked thing with the saved loops in the new saved loops pad mode. I like this because it lets me finger drum without needing to spend time in an external editing program, and its all saved in one tidy piece of metadata in the file. (a la FLIP)




Very true, but once again, they'll always have the safety of the SX loop controls to guide them on their much slower, less button pushing intensive process. AND how many will utilize FLIP or buy it. I'm guessing a lot. So either way they have a way to do their much slower action. I NEED to press one less button to perform and operate the cross fader. Giiiiiiive it to meeeeeee. haha.

I'd also be interested to see hear some of the feedback from the VCI 380 users on this.

Consider the saved loops as finger drumming I introduced and the need to operate the crossfader in conjunction with the saved loops as the best arguments for primary pad status, with the FLIP option and availability as a strong third.

Also, how many people are going to have their saved loops memorized for every song and be able to recall them blindly? ie. "Ok, gonna press loop #4, that's the one for this song" and how many are going to be able to recall them without triggering them to be certain they're thinking of the right one? I never know which cues are which without triggering them, and that's before keeping in mind all the songs in my library. The loop indicator in the song overview window is mighty small too, and I can't say I sit in loop list mode on the deck display too often either. It's gonna be store, then trial and error from there, pushing pads til I find the one I'm looking for.

Let's give the priority to performance here.

Sorry, last one, keep in mind that this application above^^ binds me to the 8 locations in the song that the hot cues are marked. Hot loop gives me access to 8 MORE locations to play, mark, and finger drum (in deck or SP6). Tone Play, finger drum and FLIP all would synergize with this performance approach and priority to performance.

If I want hot loop mode, I'd just clone the hot cues to saved loops and call it a day, OR line up my loop length and simultaneously press the hot cue pad and the loop button (pressing the loop button a shade sooner). I've actually done this A LOT while DJing, especially looping the intro/ "the One" of a song.

I can work around and play with this for days, there's more than one way to skin a cat. But the most important is the additional saved song location markers.

Hi Rory Heath,

I just replied to you here: serato.com and probably covered some similar things to Logan.

Perhaps we keep this discussion here from now on, so other users can be involved a bit more.

Martin's comment from the other post:



A HOT LOOP mode on the DDJ-SX would be fantastic!

I definitely understand the reasoning behind the on/off loop being primary, I was just surprised to see it implemented since it seemed when it was posted earlier on this page that it would be the main star of the pad mode instead of the second act. ha. I always thought the addition of the mode was to allow the hot loop trigger action. Is there a thread that I can look at that heavily requests the on/ off pad feature?

Also, regarding the pads, I want y'all to hands on test out the current configuration a bit so you can see what I mean. Let's do this. choose 4 songs that you know pretty well. Set 8 cues and 4 loops based on quality of placement. Place the cues at spots you like and the loops at spots you like. Now I want you to play with these 4 songs, djing and the such. finger drumming, hot loop trigger drumming, using the crossfader, etc. I want y'all to notice a few things.

-how much of a strain it is to hit shift+pads
-How hard it is to try to guess which pad is the right loop that you want to turn on and off. There's no way I'm going to be able to tell you what pad is what loop for more than like 4 songs, at best. Lord knows I can't do that right now with cue points. The only one I can guess with any accuracy is that the first cue point is usually on the "one" beat. That's it. The rest is anyone's guess. no clue. and the only way I figure out which stored cue point is which is by hitting the button, that's the only way. Doing the same for on/off stored loop gets a little trickier, since the needle doesn't jump to the point in this case... the plot thickens.
-How the cue point marker on the overview covers up the loop indicator on the overview.

I completely understand y'all thinking on wanting to protect the needle jump status, great thinking actually. could that maybe be a safety added into setup in the future? BUT when you look at it from a workflow perspective and a use perspective, it just makes more sense to make the performance the priority, especially considering the crossfader. I think i may give myself carpal tunnel if i have to always hold that shift button AND hit the pad button. If on/off loopers want safety, then they should use the existing dedicated loop buttons already on the unit. Problem very much solved. or maybe a parameter button solves this/ flips the orientation for us??





A hot loop mode (DJ SP1)/ Hot Cue Auto loop mode (NS7II) is something we already have, just hit the loop active button and the respective cue point at the same time and voila.




ohhh, I didn't know that we had 2 modes to comment on. Y'all very much might have just opened pandora's box on this one. But the real question, is this: in keeping with the growth of the DDJ-sx in the coming years, how many new additions can you make? are y'all reserving some for future features? is pioneer planning on certain ones? How does the forecasting of pad modes work? I've been wondering that for a good while now, especially considering I remember Pioneer or Y'all promising more pad modes in the future, possibly in the manual.

So after studying more than a few manuals, it seems we have a few options to go into the 2+ pad modes now open.

They are:
-stored hot loop trigger mode
-stored hot loop trigger mode-- delete saved loops
-hot loop mode (like sp1)
-NS7II manual mode (top 4 are stored, bottom 4 are in, out, loop on off and reloop)
-half and half mode (first 4 cues, first 4 loops, parameter button shifts to last 4 cues, last 4 loops? like the reloop turntable)
-predetermined loop length per pad a la vci 380 (pad 1- 1/4 loop, pad 2- 1/2 loop, etc. also able to be shifted like the loop roll mode)
-sp1 version of manual loop
-maybe an fx pad-mode combination?

my nominations, using up 2 pad modes, with shift+pad activating the second layer is:
mode 1
-pad-loop on/off
-pad+shift- predetermined loop length per pad (380 users loved this feature before)

mode 2
-pad-trigger stored hot loop mode
-pad+shift- delete stored loop

though i really like the half and half mode and the pad fx option.

Also, I want y'all to realize the possibilities of adding 8 additional markers in the song that I can mark. These 8 additional spots allow me to add in 8 more spots i can play in sampler, mark key verses, mark good mix out/ mix in points, mark intro breaks, mark outro breaks. etc. In my case, I was able to use those loop storage points as a way to add one shots to be played in the sampler. It was a good way for me to bridge the gap for not having remix decks, and a loop recorder. and that was before I even bring up using an external piece of equip as a step sequencer, which y'all actually solved with FLIP. thanks for that, saved me about $1000 right there. These same 8 loop slots ALSO give me 8 new buttons/ points to play around with with FLIP.

It's all about synergy folks!!

When I was thinking that feature, I thought I could use it that way so I totally agree with Rory. Use the shift button + pads breaks the "performance use" of it.

In general, when I need to activate a saved loop (at the end of a track for example) I just use my laptop because I have time to do it. If I don't I always have the autoloop button to create an accurate loop (thanks to proper beatgrid) but hot loop trigger IS my first expectation.

That would be AWESOME !

BOTH great points. Time is the keyword there. There's gobs of time available to activate that on/off loop and very little time to activate a loop-drum. I can mouse click the on/off, it is impossible to mouse click my way to loop-drum.

Hi Rory,



Sorry if we gave you that impression. I don't recall anyone particularly saying how this feature would work, but we always intended this spec, at least for the simple reason that the spec remains consistent with the "saved loop" mode we offer on other controllers that already had it.



I understand you are looking at it from a different way, but my stance is that the fact it is a strain means its a natural safe guard for people accidentally triggering the jump to loop/reloop function.



I completely agree. Whats your suggestion for solving this problem? Colors on pads seem to work well for Cue Points, unfortunately the DDJ-SX does not offer colors on the pads.



Yeah, I'd like to see an improvement in this area too. How are you with photoshop? How would you like to see it look?



Well there are only so many mapping updates you can provide to a controller before it becomes overly complicated right? Remember we aren't the final stop for these pad modes.

We do work together with the hardware partner to decide how these things should work and quite often they will simply pitch us their controller and make a request on what pad modes they'd like on the controller and how you access them. There is some user testing involved to decide which modes are the most useful and we do keep an eye out for feedback to see how things go when a controller is released.



Where will we fit them? Do you want to see another tab of 8 more cue points or something? Cue Points 9-16?



Yep, they are fair points. We are both coming from different angles on this one and both have their ups and downs. I'd like to remind you guys, that you can MIDI map a separate controller to the specific reloop functions for each slot. At least that is a workaround for now if you intend on doing any performance loop swapping.

Quick question. How do I upload an image to the forum as I'm gonna need to do so soon to show you what I mean? Haven't figured out how to yet.

Oh sorry, there is no function for that in the general areas, but there is an "attach a file" button in the bug report you made. You could upload it there and then I can link them through into this discussion?

sounds good, gimme a little bit and I'll get it up

Am I doing something wrong, or is this new loop feature just an on and off for each respective pad? I thought for sure I would be able to "hot cue" each saved loop.

Whilst in Save Looped mode (shift + roll), try shift + pad to activate your loop

Alright, gonna work backward to forward on this on some censor mode ishhhh




While it is true that I could add in another midi controller, the idea of doing so is just... embarassing. I have a very apt and impressive controller with 16 possible pad modes at least. I'd be a little embarrassed to admit that despite those facts I still have to add in another controller and tie up another USB plug for something that could be described as pretty basic, no crazy special midi mapping here. My other reason is that it would use another USB slot, and I like many other users only have about 3-4 of these on average, and adding in a USB hub and its power supply is also equally embarrassing. With all of the pad mode space on the SX, I believe it should be within reason to have a very basic feature mapped out natively (we're close).




So how do we solve this problem? Well, granted, y'all have the hammer here, i'm just the end user, BUT my suggestion is we solve this with a bit of American History: Henry Clay, the great compromiser. You bring up an excellent point about necessary safeguards against jumping the needle unexpectantly during performance, and I'm sure y'all had the same debates about the keybard shortcuts for hot cues back in the day.

My suggestion is that we solve this issue the same way that y'all did back in the day: by having a checkbox in settings that changes how the shortcuts/ pads act in the program. Just like I can check "playback keys require shift" in settings, why don't we let the user define this behavior by checking "stored loop pad mode requires shift +" in the settings. Everyone's happy (except the programmers who just picked up a little more work) haha. This check box would swap out which pad behavior comes first in that mode.

When the shift+ checkbox is enabled the on/ off action would be primary. When it is not enabled, the stored loops hot trigger would be primary. I'm even fine with the checkbox being ticked by default. But in the end, at least the user can choose and tailor their experience, ever so slight.




Very true. Let's talk planning. With the current pad modes we're at 7 of 16 possible pad modes used, (8 of 16 with FLIP coming).

mode 1- normal
mode 2-double tap
mode 3- Shift plus button
mode 4- Hold button

4 mode buttons x 4 modifiers counted above= 16


At about 2 years into existence, I do have the fear that the SX will reach the end of its life with un-used pad opportunities still not used, with that said I think there's plenty of things to fill them with. Most advantgeous to me would be a user defineable custom midi- layer, BUT thats a topic for another time.



On this I'm actually pretty good with 8 for now, but I'd never turn down more cue points. If y'all can add them in easy, let's do it! an SX user could scroll via the parameter buttons to the second "page" of cues. The point i was making was that the saved loops are VERY handy for one-shots looped in the SP6 or even outside of it. I'll post a pic for what I mean there later.




Welllll for this, lets call this solution "Bottom B**** Mode" For most songs, every DJ usually just has ONE part of the track that they prefer to loop during playback usually. That one loop that they loop, then mix out of the track, it just happens. Which as I alluded to earlier, means that the DJ is going to be looking for "saved loop #4" without knowing that the loop he wants is saved loop #4, he just knows he has that ONE that he wants to use. My solution, without using pad colors is to allow the user to choose ONE saved loop to highlight as his Bottom B**** loop; his main loop. hahaha.

On the pad, it's possible to symbolize this by a pulse blinking of the chosen loop. A pulse similar to how the pads blink when Velocity SP6 mode is first enabled. Maybe a double pulse for the bottom B**** loop.

ie. DJ is playing a song, wants to loop his favorite section, but doesn't remember what section that is offhand, and what slot that section is stored in. So he switches over to on/off stored loop mode and right after he gets in the mode, his favorite loop and its respective pad, pulses twice to denote to him that that is his favorite loop and the one that he is probably looking for. it streamlines it for him.

We could denote this in the deck portion as a darker, more shaded in loop slot, so maybe a darker blue, or Grey, or whatever. Up to y'all on that one. ONE loop to be given this distiction and that's it. Also, is it possible to assign colors to loops yet?

This is of course to be used by anyone that just doesn't utilize flip or didn't buy it, because FLIP could just solve this problem by the user making a flip that loops into their favorite loop.



So i'd love to show y'all via photoshop, but i could probably just describe it to ya. Why don't you just solve this with another pulse, this time in the overview display part of the deck.

Right now, the loop marker is a static darkish blue showing the position and length of the loop. The problem is that sometimes a cue marker by the loop can be hidden by the cue marker on the overview. The solution is that when the loop is turned on, have it pulse on the overview, overtaking the cue marker to an amount of 80% opacity. So each time you hit the pad to turn the loop on, the loop amount flashes/ pulses one time on the screen to show where it is, and bringing it to the front of the cue point during that brief pulse. The pulse would start out behind the cue point, then the opacity would overtake cue point, making the loop at about 80% and then letting off of it.

Hope this answers most of the questions, if not, I'll be happy to specify and better answer any other question, but I think the pad pulsing once when you enter the stored loop pad mode for bottom B**** mode would work and the looped section pulsing in overview mode would work perfect when it is activated.

To clarify, the pulse in the overview would work like this:

IN the mode:

Tap pad #3 to turn it on, that looped section not only is highlighted in blue, but it also pulses one time on the overview to show you where it is at. Then, the on screen pulse moves from 80% back to its normal display. So hit pad On- pulses, hit pad again- off, no pulse.

Why not have Shift+Roll enter loop cue (on) and to turn it off, you just hit the loop on/off button, instead of having it just turn on/off the loops?

How do you mean DJ Boom Bap? like step by step how would it work?

1. Change the current way: Shift + Roll = Saved Loop On/Off to Shift + Roll = "Hot" Loops (hot cue for saved loops).
2. (Don't know if this works anyway). Enable the looping saved loop to be turned off via a controllers Auto loop on/off button. (This would essentially eliminate the need for the loop on/off mode). If no loop is activated, the auto loop would trigger the auto loop where you want it to. If a loop is active, pressing this button turns the loop off.

Is there really a need for pads to be set up to simply turn saved loops on and off? As it stands, if you activate a loop at the end of a song (without hitting shift + pad) it doesn't jump to that loop.
At the least, I feel that the current way to do things should be reversed.

^ Edit, I thought about it and can think of a reason to simply turn a loop on or off, but it seems counter productive to not use my above mentioned switch.

@boombap so the current point of contention is actually a little past what you're talking about.

This is the current setting as of the last beta:

1 new pad mode, accessed by pressing shift+Loop Roll

Sub mode 1:

Pad 1-8: Respective loop on/ off

Sub mode 2:

shift+ pad 1-8: Stored Loop hot trigger


As you talked about Serato is debating what to add into this mode. They believe that the on/off stored mode is the most important and have that added into the first spot and the hot loop trigger as the shift + pad mode.

I agree with ya BoomBap, I think most DJs have more than enough controls on the SX to find the loop they want without having a pad dedicated to each loop, but I think they're trying to give the saved loops a little more room to breathe, and I'm excited because the stored loops trigger comes along for the ride.

So what Serato is trying to decide is how to populate those 2 sub modes and in what order. Scroll up for a summary of the features they're debating. Some of the pad modes they're considering can be seen on the VCI-380, the NS7II, and the Pioneer DDJ-SP1.

It appears the 2 sub modes i described are in the lead for final implementation, but Serato needs some input. Leave your comments and let them know how you feel. It sounds like you're leaning towards the Stored Loop Hot trigger being the first sub mode and the stored loop on/off as the second sub mode, and I completely agree.

The key as Serato has mentioned is letting them know how you feel. They want to make sure that they get it right and that they map the controls in a way that helps MOST dj's DJ the way that they want to.

Right now their belief is that MOST DJs want each loop's on/off to be primary and they are keeping the stored loop trigger as a shift+ pad function to leep people from accidentally jumping the track to the loop. I believe that its easier to cue/ loop juggle if I don't have to hold shift and press a pad, thus freeing up my other hand for the crossfader.

Anywho, please leave feedback here so that Serato knows, the more detailed the better, but keep in mind what specifically they are considering and asking for feedback on to keep the feedback focused for them.

Sorry for not reading everything, I was at work and skimming (not very well evidently).

Yes, I would like Stored Loop Hot Trigger to be Shift + Pad.

It would be no different than accidentally hitting a hot cue and messing up your mix.

Whoops, strike that. I would like Shift + Roll to put me in Stored Loop Hot Trigger mode

I haven't really got any further comments to add to the spec discussion, but I would like to point out that if you can't be bother reading this lengthy thread, this is a pretty good summary:

OK. Of the two, my preference is vice versa. shift+pad for loop/off (timing is not critical - pressing shift is ok). And just pads for triggering loops (timing is critical, so no extra keys, keep my other hand free)

Best IMO would be a dedicated mode for both, leaving shift for deleting loops (as with hot cues)

I completely agree. It'd be nice if they could spare 2 pad modes for this, but I'd be very happy with a single pad mode with loop trigger as the primary. I'd like to see the pad mode finalized like this:

Shift+ Loop Roll: Enter Pad mode

While in PAD mode:
Pads 1-8: Hot Trigger Loop mode

Shift+ Pads 1-8: Stored loop on/off

Martin C: Thoughts on the checkbox option to switch the 2 via settings and thus change the behavior of that particular pad mode? Is that considered an easy fix for y'all from a programming spec?

The problem with adding a check-box every time we run into what is a (relatively) minor use-case discrepancy like this, is that we would very quickly end up with an unruly amount of options in the Setup screen. Then it just becomes a nightmare to maintain, different controllers have different options, it gets messy quickly and hard for people to learn the software. There are literally dozens of requests for setup screen options for device-specific behaviour like this. We try avoid adding Setup screen options if we can, and cater to what we feel is the majority. If enough users are clearly unhappy though we can always re-assess changing the behaviour or as a last resort add an option. We feel this doesn't quite warrant that just yet. But it's important to read everyone's feedback :)

I completely understand Martin, I'm sure y'all see quite a lot of instances like this. Though you do have to admit that there has been a fair amount of support just on this thread from users wanting the hot trigger as a primary within the pad mode.

ahem, Logan. Sorry, starting to confuse y'all at this point. ha

Yeah for sure, but don't doubt for a minute that there wouldn't be an equal or greater amount of people complaining the opposite if we changed it ;)

This takes me back to when the Twitch launched and it would just "jump to" the loop when you activated one on the pads. As far as work flow went it was the worst thing I'd ever experienced and rendered the loop activating useless as there was no quantization back then.

It got changed in SDJ and if it was perfect then. The work flow is activating and picking up active loops as they pass by. I'd never vote to go back to the dark days of Twitch and Itch!

Shift + loop press to reloop then yes but never off the bat! I battled for a while to get that changed In Itch.

Primary mode on nearly all controllers I use that allow you to recall loops is activate first and not reloop. Reloading should be a shift action.

I need consistency as I use and own more than one controller. It's already becoming fragmented with different manufacturers not standardising the performance pads and it's quickly getting frustrating. I think this area needs policing more.

If anything should jump and introduce the possibility of ruined mixes on a first layer loop performance pad I'd not be happy as I don't use quantize. Hot cues are on the standard button one so no issues with them.

I can only test this new mode out on the 10th September when I'm reunited with my SX so let's just hope the beta is still running by then for my input.

**relooping should be a shift action.

This is the way it used to work on the Twitch and VCI-380 and was officially called a bug in this thread... serato.com

This thread was saying how SSL picks up the loop and doesn't 'jump'... serato.com

SSL didn't jump to loop and neither did other Itch controllers. It was just when the performance pads came out this happened.

More here... serato.com

And here... serato.com

And here... serato.com

I'd like to see reloop there but use not on the first layer as the complaints are just a few I found with many users inputting on how annoying it was as it didn't do it in SSL or Itch until the Twitch came along.

Akiem/Fat Bob/[O/][!!!][O/] all voiced their concerns on this mode as priority and finally it was changed.

I'm all for an option though as I can see there is a few voices wanting it to reloop but wouldn't want the primary behaviour changed from picking up the active loop.

Well those same people can look to the existing loop buttons already dedicated to turning on and off a stored loop. If they need tactile controls on their SX to do so, all they need to do is select their loop slot, and activate loop.

I don't have that option. I can't just use an already mapped button to trigger stored loops in quick succession to get the job done. On/off loop lovers CAN currently do that with controls THAT ARE ALREADY ON THEIR SX UNIT.

In speaking of a compromise on this issue, I think I might have been thinking too micro, with just one controller (2 if you count the SX2) and should have been thinking more zoomed out. Since on/ off loopers lament the needlehead jumping, why don't we instead make a feature in settings that prevents that from happening, ie loop functions don't jump to loop or something.

What kills me about the on/ off looper argument is its taken from a complete lowest common denominator standpoint, acting like a hot cue can't sabotage them JUST as much, or another sleight of hand. If you don't want the needle to jump then DON'T BE IN THAT MODE. Pretty simple. What also kills me about the argument is the thought that they're going to be able to remember all of their loops stored within their 100s+ files, that's bullshit. They're going to have to use the trigger to find out which loop is which, probably everytime (unless the aforementioned "bottom bitch" mode is utilized). and at that point, the lowest common denominator could still screw it up and press the shift button when he doesn't mean to.

Literally, to find out what loop they want to turn on/off they're going to have to use the stored loop trigger to find out.

Bottom line is the on/off loopers already have a fucking button to do what they need to get done, and there is no way that they're going to remember which loop number they use on which track. They just aren't. AND if they can remember it, then it's 1 of 1 or 1 of 2 stored loops on the track, which at THAT point they might as wellllllllll... use the damn button they already have on the controller. I can't say the same for loop trigger juggling.

AND AND AND if they only use one specific loop during a track and they can always remember it then they can create a FLIP for it orrrrrrr USE THE DAMN BUTTON THEY ALREADY HAVE ON THE CONTROLLER.

Martin and Logan: When y'all get a chance at the office tomorrow, can you explore both arguments from a workflow standpoint by hooking up an SX and playing with it? Put it through the paces from both perspectives and please do these two things:

1.Try to trigger stored loops in quick succession with just the SX and the Keyboard enabled and utilizing the crossfader heavily while still trying to maintain a workflow.

THEN

2.Try to on/off a stored loop in SLOW succession (not needing to use the crossfader) while still trying to maintain a workflow.

You can accomplish the second, but you can't accomplish the first. You can even find a work around to accomplish the second using a second technique already mapped out in the loop controls.

Finally: @Mr Wilks, Martin and Logan, I'd like to make the distinction that the mode IS NOT reloop. The ReLoop button turns the loop on and jumps the needle point and when pressed again, turns the loop off. NOT the same as stored loop trigger.

Gonna try to be as civil as possible here Mr Wilks, but I don't see it going well.




So let me get this straight: You haven't tried the workflow of the new beta, yet you're commenting on the design and button/ pad features of the new beta, and worse yet, incorrectly referring to it as "reloop mode." AND you won't even get your SX back in your hands until the final build is already released or about to be released. Like Ed Lover say "Come onnnnn, Maaaaannnnn"


But, let's work through your litany real quick here.

"Can Serato give an instance where, as a house DJ I'd like to randomly jump to another part of the song UNQUANTIZED?"

wellllll, there's cue point juggling, finger drumming, SP6 Sampler use, playing stored loops as cue points and reconstructing the song as you'd like, the quick drum where you just play a drum hit in sync with the track being played to add a new drum sound in and using the crossfader to only open up and play the part you want to be played, while keeping the track playing... etc.

Also, there's quantization now, so I don't even want to hear your belly aching now.

"This is a problem unique to the Twitch. "

and yet here we are two years later talking about an outdated, under amped, ill-timed piece of experimental poo that was the twitch in the same sentence as a much better thought out and better executed piece of hardware as the very popular DDJ SX. Scoping the manual on the twitch looping VS the problems you were encountering, this was very much a bug of Twitch and NOT of SX, so I really question it's relevance here.

"I don't use quantize. "

So you complain about it, it gets enabled and then you don't use it?? Confused. I'm starting to understand how you feel Logan. Pissed if you don't, but then when you do, they don't use the feature AND are still pissed. Lose/ lose for y'all Kiwis



Oh cool, we're talking about SSL now too. What's next? The Serato Plug in for Pro Tools?? Or should we just go old school and throw it back to Pitch N Time 1.0??



It's not reloop.



It's not reloop.



It's not reloop.



aaaaaannnnndddd it's still not fucking reloop.

There IS however a reloop button on the SX. It's a shift function... and it's labelled "reloop",
it's RIIIIIGHT next to another button called "loop active" that's always just a shift button away, regardless of the pad mode, and it's located in a little section on your SX called the "loop section." You can even use this same magical section to activate a loop in the manner that you love (I think you called it soft, flaccid loop). I, on the other hand, cannot say the same for quickly triggering stored loops (I don't need a quantize mode to help me out there).

If you had physical possession of your SX unit during this beta trial/ test time, you'd be able to reference it. Just like you'd be able to try out the beta we're talking about above, but you don't have it in your possession, so you can't.



What?! The lowest common denominator argument is OK with this seemingly static bit of anarchy lurking behind a very primary pad function?? Put all guards at alert on this one, a piece of chaotic cue pointing threatens to derail the space/time DJ Mixing continuum. Battle Stations, #1 (Patrick Stewart voice).



How many F'N pieces of hardware do you own Mr Wilks?? Better Question: How many do you actually have in your posession? and that you use? Are you commenting on these other varied bits of Hardware and their respective Serato forum entries too?




Well that's great. Fat Bob, Akuma and the punctuation special there were referring to Itch and the Novation Twitch taking place some 2 years ago. Ya got a dedicated button for that now on the SX, the controller that you don't have in your possession.

Scroll up for the people that lent their opinions on this issue this year, about this piece of software AND this piece of hardware (and that incidentally, have an SX in their possession). Shocker.



You already have a button(s) for that.




Well I, for one, have the calendar marked for this day and will be playing Peaches and Herb "ReUnited" in the background for this very occasion. I look forward to the day you can be reunited with a relevant opinion.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Hmmmmm.

As I'm on a mobile device I won't be doing much quoting but I'll work through the points.

Yes, you got that right. The "reunited on the 10th September" bit of the sentence indicated that I wasn't with the controller in question. I am a UK club DJ playing in Greece and use CDJ2000s/CDJ900s in the venues I play so there was no need to take take extra weight with a controller on flights when HID mode is there with the SL3 and just requires two USB cables. CDJs are already installed so why create problems? I used to take the Twitch in hand luggage so you can knock it as much as you like (seems like you already have) but it was the only controller to fit into a 15" laptop bag and support full Serato DJ. It has a similar footprint to the Traktor X1/Z1 combo and ideal for beach gigs but I would have been sniggered at that by the looks of things. Gear snob? I still use the Twitch for small gigs if I need it. The twitch is still a relevant bit of kit, regardless of age It's not far behing the SX. The SX? Hello USB 1.1 ;)

"Can Serato give an instance where, as a house DJ I'd like to randomly jump to another part of the song UNQUANTIZED?"

wellllll, there's cue point juggling, finger drumming, SP6 Sampler use, playing stored loops as cue points and reconstructing the song as you'd like, the quick drum where you just play a drum hit in sync with the track being played to add a new drum sound in and using the crossfader to only open up and play the part you want to be played, while keeping the track playing... etc"

You keep assuming we are all "finger drummers" from your posts. I'm not, and the bit that was in capitals was the word "unquantized". Wanting to jump to a loop and activate (Reloop) was unusable when quantize didn't exist. You've quoted me from a time when quantize was a pipe dream. Things change (thank god). Wrecking was the order of the day here, but alas this is no more. So that's a +1 for progress, eh?
On an innovative device that didn't include jog wheels and was geared up for the house/electronic scene and to have a useless looping function (Reloop) on there was poor planning really. It wasn't a firmware issue... it was that Reloop had been mapped to the pads instead of loop and wasn't fixed until the arrival of SDJ.

"This is a problem unique to the Twitch.

and yet here we are two years later talking about an outdated, under amped, ill-timed piece of experimental poo that was the twitch in the same sentence as a much better thought out and better executed piece of hardware as the very popular DDJ SX. Scoping the manual on the twitch looping VS the problems you were encountering, this was very much a bug of Twitch and NOT of SX, so I really question it's relevance here."

Poo? Pioneering i think that was meant to say. Remember it was announced a whole 18 months before the SX was out and was the first device to give us performance pads. Of course it can't be compared, 18 months is a long time in the DJ controller world so you just made an unfair comparison in my opinion. people are still asking for a Twitch 2 so they did something right.

"I don't use quantize.

So you complain about it, it gets enabled and then you don't use it?? Confused."

Don't be. It was a feature that only quantized the cue points. All other software has the play button quantized and Serato chose not to go down this route so only implemented a slimmed down quantization mode. They got close but no cigar for me. I wanted it on "play" Ableton style (and other DJ software too) but as it was just cue points I turned it off.
Maybe if the Kiwis had enginenered "launch quantization" in from the start I'd be a happy user of quantize. Oh well, I got told to make a feature request for this.

"It's not reloop.... It's not reloop.... It's not reloop.... aaaaaannnnndddd it's still not fucking reloop"

Isn't it? Oops. Sorry, my bad. I was just going by what Serato call it, after all it's their software we are using right?
It was called this in SSL using my Denon HC-1000S and now SDJ but I think using "hot loop" (Pioneers term) is okay when using THEIR kit as the loops are recorded onto the cue buttons of CDJs but I'm pretty sure the button on screen says RELOOP in my copy of Serato DJ. Do you have a version I don't? Jump to and activate a loop is called... wait for it... RELOOP. Taa-daa!
The function of jumping to a loop and activating (regardless of a hardware button) is called relooping. It's just that there is now slots for relooping your saved loops assigned to your performance pads DIRECTLY and not a single button that does all the Reloops. No scrolling through slots. It's DIRECT ACCESS to Reloops.

Using lingo familiar to all users in SDJ, regardless of controller, is the best way to get a point across. Correct me if I'm wrong with this though as I may have been misunderstood but I have seen no other reference other than Reloop in any Serato help files or manuals and have called this feature Reloop from day one in SDJ (and before in Itch).

Consistency is the key here. Buttons/modes on one controller that are echoed onto others make a better user experience in my book. If you used two controllers and one has the pitch fader reversed it would get tiring after a while. Standards are a good thing and I applaud the fact the new loop/reloop mode on the SX works like other controllers and not in an SX specific way to satisfy YOUR workflow and influencing a change to an already established way of looping on performance pad controllers. It's how it works already, want them to change it for you? Would you suggest they change all controllers to suit you too in case you buy another controller?

"This thread was saying how SSL picks up the loop and doesn't 'jump'... serato.com

SSL didn't jump to loop and neither did other Itch controllers. It was just when the performance pads came out this happened.


Oh cool, we're talking about SSL now too. What's next? The Serato Plug in for Pro Tools?? Or should we just go old school and throw it back to Pitch N Time 1.0??"

You know there is a lot of SSL users out there that have just jumped to (and still need to) SDJ? #justsayin

SSL is still a currently supported product until it's retired in 2015 so don't pull that one. Something that is still supported isn't in the same league as something from 2002. Many high end pro's have yet to convert to DVS in SDJ as it's still BRAND NEW. It needs to build it's stability reputation with them and get features like 'sticker sync', AM mode (1.7) etc. They have only just fixed the pretty crappy DVS "skipping at the start that" meant it was unusable for many. Chronological cues etc just made it over... think DVS was fully featured in SDJ? Think again... it is in it's infancy so SSL reigns supreme here. They are in the process of converting and it's gathering speed.

Anyway, why not have a consistent user experience? (I do keep banging away on the word "consistency" for some reason but can't think why).

"If you had physical possession of your SX unit during this beta trial/ test time, you'd be able to reference it. Just like you'd be able to try out the beta we're talking about above, but you don't have it in your possession, so you can't"

I am trying out the beta and have testing it since it dropped... just not with the SX. I've found bugs too that are getting fixed.

You asked how many controllers/hardware devices? The updated list is in my profile as I've slimmed down what I have now as I find controllers the way forward. The CDJ1000s/DJM combo was sold and an SX purchased as I just wanted a more portable bit of kit for when in the UK.

...and yes I voice my opinion in both the SSL/Twitch/SDJ/Serato Video/Bridge forums as and when. I chime in with issues and am very active. I will only comment on something I own as I have an understanding. I don't just jump in with posts I know little about.
Version 1.7 has so many bugs and issues with the Twitch that is just getting fixed 12 months later, many I found. We are slowly getting there due to input and feedback (Martin/Logan must have been annoyed at the things I pressed to be fixed with the Twitch).

So in my possession currently... an SL3 but it's because I'm 2000 miles away for the summer. That does not mean these changes you propose don't affect me... they do. I just can't test the beta for two weeks with the SX but if it works as intended (which all indications suggest it does due to the grumpy faces here) then I'm happy.

Just a little click on the supplied links from myself will see the amount of people NOT happy with jumping to loops as standard on performance pads (regardless of hardware). This was two years ago. What's changed? Forget it was the Twitch for a second. It could have been any controller as it was the action of jumping that irked people.

"Hot cues are on the standard button one so no issues with them"

There was a bit of text missing from this. My humble apologies due to cut/paste on a mobile but I found you elaborated a little on this a little too much to pad out your sarcastic train of thought.

"Akiem/Fat Bob/[O/][!!!][O/] all voiced their concerns on this mode as priority and finally it was changed.

Well that's great. Fat Bob, Akuma and the punctuation special there were referring to Itch and the Novation Twitch taking place some 2 years ago. Ya got a dedicated button for that now on the SX, the controller that you don't have in your possession.

Scroll up for the people that lent their opinions on this issue this year, about this piece of software AND this piece of hardware (and that incidentally, have an SX in their possession). Shocker"

Hmmm. Think about that for a second. Regardless of controller it was the FUNCTION that was causing issues, not the hardware. It could have been on any hardware and still had the response it got. Had the SX been first with the pads, this would still have been the case AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. Quantization wasn't in Itch and recalling loops just didn't work. It was getting the forum posts in the Twitch forum as it was the ONLY controller to have performance pads, hence the only controller to sport this annoying mode... until the VCI-380 came along and guess what? Yup, you're right the second controller to come out with performance pads had this issue too. You see a pattern here?

Now I'm not going to find out if there was many forum posts in the Vestax forum about it as it was beaten to death in the Novation forum months before the 380s launch but can imagine it existed (I did see a few). I didn't go there as I don't own any Vestax gear, reiterating my previous point about commenting on my first hand experiences with equipment I own.

You keep popping at me not having the SX to hand. Do you think I don't own one or something? Could be be in repair? Loaned out? Inaccessible? Just because I won't see it for two weeks doesn't mean I'll allow you to force an opinion on Serato. They made it clear, This is the way it will work and don't want to alienate users with a different mode when recalling loops. I never recalled one person say they was happy with the way it worked in Itch. If you can find one I'll give you a big foam hand to point and mock me.

"I'm all for an option though as I can see there is a few voices wanting it to reloop but wouldn't want the primary behaviour changed from picking up the active loop

You already have a button(s) for that"

Obviously Serato planned beforehand and went down the sensible route and didn't want to make the pad modes work the OPPOSITE to other pad modes on other controllers.

So, it seems by me adding my opinion to this thread seems to have ruffled your feathers. Would you have not preferred me to have said anything? I thought it was a way of gauging the response of said feature request. Did you just want people to only "+1" this idea? I'm sorry that I said it worked fine in the way it's currently been implemented and sorry for linking to countless others it had annoyed in the past on different controllers.

You seem to have sand in your vag over it and I was never directing anything at you (I even quoted Logan) as not to upset anyone. I just put across my opinion, and that is that it seems to work as expected from the performance pads and a consistent perspective.

Also, my apologies I'm not enjoying the crappy UK weather this summer and instead basking on a Greek party island without my SX, but rest assured this change you propose WILL affect me so I have the right to voice my opinion. Sorry it wasn't a +1 but I did say I'm all for your way and the use of other options to get it so you can get what you want... just not as a first level/top tier choice.

The formatting of this post may not be right but I think I get my point across :)

Oops...

"Version 1.7 has **FIXED** so many bugs and issues with the Twitch that is only just getting sorted over 12 months later.

Congratulations, you now both own two of most TL;DR posts on our forum haha. There is no right or wrong here there's pros and cons to both sides - It's really that simple. You've both pointed them out in detail. From our point of view, here's what's going to happen ; 1.7.0 will go out with this new saved loop mode that so many people requested (and I'm sure will be more than happy with), and we will be carefully monitoring all feedback. If this is an issue that pops up continuously then we'll look into what options we have to provide the best workflow for these DJs that isn't at the expense of those DJs happy with the current behaviour.

You should both be lawyers not DJs anyway.

Damn it.....

I actually think we got both sides over pretty well so we'll leave it to the jury to decide...

I'm all for a compromise :)

Nah, one side can do it easy enough (one handed, for a job that can use 2 hands)..................the other (my) side has to use 2 hands for a job that really needs one.

Welllll look who's a Serato Tutorial star, what up Logan! ha. How does DDJ-SX enter and operate flip mode?

Nevermind, just found it hidden in the quick start guide

Sup Rory! Now I'm a big video star you probably won't catch me down here in the forum with the plebs as much.

Jokes. Let me know if you got any questions as always man.

The 1.7 does exactly what i wanted with the loops on ddj-sx. THANKS A LOT !

Serato 1.7 Must save loops directly 4 - 8 - 16 beats with one button but don't can't hit and the auto loop

Like Traktor ….

And don't can delete the loops from pads

Just adding my vote to having the "Hot Loops" feature for drumming of loops as default being able to be a settable option somehow using the DDJ-SX. Being able to automatically jump around the loops saved on each pad without using two hands to press shift +pad is is far more useful feature for having the 8 cued loops on the 8 big drum pads for creating live twerk remixes or acapella/instrumental mixing for remaking tracks live.

Having an option to set using a combination of key pads on the SX to switch the default behavior of saved loops from "simple on/of" to "jump to loop" would be amazing. This will please both those who don't use it in that way and those of us that do. Serato is so close to making everyone happy. I really hope you can figure out a way to make this happen for the SX. Awaiting with baited breath.

DJ Boom Bap said it best

HERE HERE! The saved loop on/off people already have a button to do what these pads accomplish. Serato, give it a try one of these days when you get a little time. Try out both options in testing, with a live ddj-sx unit. y'all mapped the FLIP controls like this, why not the Saved Loop controls?

For sure my man, I always appreciate the support!

Alright Logan, quick question... just bought a DDJ-SP1. How does triggering saved loops work on that? I've scoured the manuals and quick start guides and haven't found any info on it. Is it even possible? {I know, I just won't go away. Another Pioneer Product, another looping question. haha}

Rory Heath,

In the manual loop section you can turn on and off saved loops.
Its a couple button presses to get to it, but its there.

Press SHIFT and SLICER to get in to manual loop mode.
You can actually see the slick screened loop options in silver by the pads to activate a saved loop

Matt P

Can we

Can serato please add this functionality to the DDJ-SB? We like using saved loops we've spent hours and hours making too!! :(

I believe the latest update 1.7.3 has made this functionality available for the DDJ-SR. I think it safe to say if the SX users want it and the SR users want it, then SB users will probably want it too.

It's frustrating we have to start our own feature request for new hardware with virtually identical functionality.

The DDJ-SX and DDJ-SR both have 8 performance pads and 4 mode buttons, so simply adding a new mode to this layout wasn't too hard. However the DDJ-SB has a different layout altogether and so the same solution can't be applied. The mode buttons on the SB are already full, as are the SHIFT layers for it. The only way I can see it being possible is a secondary press of one of the mode buttons, but even then you only have 4 pads so how would you access the remaining 4 loop slots?

We would be happy to add a way of triggering saved loops to the DDJ-SB if there is a way of incorporating it sensibly and in a user-friendly fashion. So if you have any ideas let us know, but it needs to be easy to understand and use.

My apologies. In a previous email with Matty P he said it was achievable with the other units by pressing shift + pads 1-4 while in hot-loop mode. Could this be an option for the SB then?

Pressing "Shift" + "Pads 1-4" in hot-loop mode, to trigger 1-4 of the slot reloop functions.

From what I can tell atm, holding down shift + pad does the same a not holding the shift button while in hotloop mode

cheers.

My apologies. In a previous email with Matty P he said it was achievable with the other units by pressing shift + pads 1-4 while in hot-loop mode. Could this be an option for the SB then?

Pressing "Shift" + "Pads 1-4" in hot-loop mode, to trigger 1-4 of the slot reloop functions.

From what I can tell atm, holding down shift + pad does the same a not holding the shift button while in hotloop mode

HI all!!!!

I want delete the loops in the midi controller with shift + Pad 1 or 2,3,4,5.....
and too i want play the loop button only strike one time from the pad 1 or 2,3,4,5.....

Midi Controler Ddj sx2 Ddj Sz