Hey YZ3,

Unfortunately this is a known issue with the i7 (also i3 & i5) processors.
I will link you to our FAQ article on it. serato.com
The first thing to do would be to go to your laptop manufacturer's website and check for a BIOS update.

Let me know how you go :)

Yea, I already have the latest BIOS for my laptop. Asus G73. Little discomforting knowing this since I bought the laptop to run Serato primarily. The skipping and dropouts is not cool. Will there be an update from you guys possibly that will address this?

This is a laptop manufacturer issue there is nothing we at Serato can do. Users with this problem will have to wait for a BIOS update from the manufacturer unfortunately.
Apologies for the inconvenience.

hey yz3 i have the same problem but with a sony laptop.
try to write a message to your manufacturer, but i doubt that will help.
at least at sony nobody seems to really investigate on this.

feels good to have spent big money for nothing right?
i am so fed up with this issue.

Yea, like Intel is going to listen to me. This is ridiculous... seriously.

"Users with this problem will have to wait for a BIOS update from the manufacturer unfortunately."

So what exactly am I asking them to fix? Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand while you (Rane) the manufacturer is asking their customers (us) to contact computer manufacturers (ie, intel) to fix a problem between an interface you developed to work with computers?!? Shouldn't you guys be doing the correspondence? I'd like to think that Rane wants this problem fixed more than anything

Just to make you feel better I have to same problem with a Sony Intel i5 laptop drops out every 15 minutes and wont come back unless i unplug and plug the usb back in. Sometimes it can be fine, i'm going to try turning off the intel turbo-boost thing in the bios see if this makes any difference....

Furthermore, it's frustrating not only that I'm asked to come up with a solution to this problem but that there's a feeling it's being taken lightly by Rane. There are going to be more and more people with quad-core units running Serato and this new 'bug' is going to end up spiriling out of control in the forums. I don't even know where to begin asking Intel to fix this... or how to word it.

"Uh, Hi. I own dj software named Serato and it doesn't work with your i7 chipset. Please fix it, thanks."

I mean something don't seem right about me having to contact them personally. Very irritated with that response more so then having spent $1500 for a mixer with issues working with a computer I spend $1200 on that it should be compatible with.

Please escalate this issue to the developers and open up a ticket with Intel and let's get a fix for this, this should not be the user communities responsibility. If you say it is, I'm going the NI route.

Well Said YZ3 :)

jup, that´s the way i meant it ;)

it definitely feels wrong; i would expect rane to contact the manufacturers as well,
even more because i only get stupid replies from sony. it doesn´t really add to the story if the only advice is to contact a "manager" or someone in a higher position of the vendor.

AT LEAST somebody should put out a serious WARNING to everybody who thinks of getting a new laptop for serato.

This is going to spread like wildfire for Rane. Both rane, Intel and laptop manufacturers need to speak. There are already articles on the internet about this. www.turntabletendencies.com

Can someone please try disabling the turboboost in their bios settings see if this helps.....just a poke in the dark to see if it makes ne differenc, i will try but not going to be able to for a couple of days

Not surprised it made it to blog sites already ;). I have turbo boost I my new laptop set to normal... no difference. Serato still runs like crap.

Rane guys, I'm sure everyone here appreciates all the help and quick responses to user issues. I certainly have been helped by you guys plenty of times and appreciate it. However, this I believe should be a high priority fix and addressed properly with the appropriate party (ie Intel). At a minimum, having a Rane representative open a ticket with Intel rather than some random Dj cat trying to take matters into their own hands. You get what you pay for (at least we think so) and this Serato stuff is expensive. Please work with the community and Intel for a resolution as you do with all the other bug fixes.

Thanks.

I've emailed sony, the manufacturer of my laptop with the problem and referened the FAQ on here saying a bios update is required. I'm waiting for the response/laugh that sony have with it.....

This

My response from Sony...

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm sorry; Regretfully, due to all the variables involved with, testing, manufacturing, distribution, we are not able to provide any definite plan for BIOS update for i3, i5 and i7 processors to be compatible with the Rane Software. Although, we are always happy to assist in resolving technical issues with our Sony supplied Hardware and Software, we do not provide device Drivers, support or troubleshooting for the installation, configuration, or compatibility issues of third-party Hardware or Software. As such, we can neither warrant, nor guarantee the functionality of any third-party Hardware or Software installed on our VAIO Systems.

We would recommend contacting your third-party manufacturer for support and troubleshooting on the correct installation, configuration and/or any device Drivers required for their product. They should be happy to help you.

NOTE: Sony does not make any warranty or representation with respect
to the performance, suitability or compatibility of any products
manufactured by third-parties.

Thank you for understanding.

The Sony Email Response Team

and my second response from Sony with me insisting that it is a hardware issue...

I'm sorry that the issue still persists. As mentioned in the previous response, Sony does not make any warranty or representation with respect to the performance, suitability or compatibility of any products manufactured by third-parties, I suggest that you refer the Help files of the Software to get the issue resolved.

All Device Drivers and/or Software updates for your Computer System can be accessed from the Sony support website:

esupport.sony.com

TIP: Use the Drop-down menus to select the Operating System and desired file category (optional).

TIP: Once you reach the model specific site, we recommend you add it to the "Favorites" for quick access to support in the future.

NOTE: Sony does not recommend updates from any site other than our
own. Although a third-party Device Driver or Software update may
be installed, this is done at the exclusive risk of the customer. Any
issues with, or resulting from the installation of an unauthorized
update will not be supported by Sony and invalidate the warranty.

Thank you for choosing Sony.

The Sony Email Response Team
C10Z
Brad

same kind of replies from sony europe.

Original Message from me :
Dear Sir/Madam,

I use my laptop for DJing. I have a piece of hardware produced by Rane which is called Serato. It is a hardware inter for djing. I get usb drop outs (loss of audio) with this hardware. Looking through forums it appears that the problem is caused by Intels I5 (3 & 7) processors. They say they cannot do anything about this and it is down to manufacturer to release a bios update that rectifies the problem. Do you know of such an update, if not then do you know when a bios will be released. Here is the the website that refers to this problem serato.com.

If you have any suggestions or information that would help it would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Martyn

Their Response:
Dear Martyn,

Thank you for your email with regards to BIOS update.

Unfortunately for the moment, there is no BIOS update available, but most proboably we will have one released shortly, as we have escalated the case for further investigation.

Should you have any further questions or queries, please feel free to reply to this email or contact us on these numbers below:

VAIO in warranty: 087 02 40 24 08

VAIO out of warranty: 090 50 31 00 06

Our lines are open 8 am to 6 pm Monday to Friday

Regards,

Mariusz

Sony VAIO-Link Team

So looks like our emails are making a difference!

hello. i just bought a sony vaio VPCEA100C with the specs of i5 processor, 4g ram, 1g video mem, 500g of hard disk and a pre-installed win7 64bit home edition in it. i decide to reformat this because i don't like some of the programs intalled in it so i install win7 64bit ultimate edition and download the drivers on sony site. i have notice that my bios version is more updated so i did not update my bios. after i installed the OS and all the necessary drivers next is the SSL 2.0. after all the work, i use this machine in the club for 5 hours straight a night for a week now and i have not experience anything with it. it works very very well for me. i am not suggesting to follow what i did i just want to share my experience with sony vaio. it is up to the readers or to the owners of this machine if they will follow me or not...

Peace.... :D

More Power... :D

Hey guys, could you please post what Rane hardware you are using, if you are on a Mac or PC and also what version of Scratch Live you are running.
That would help us alot :)

me i'm using SL3 Rane hardware and sony vaio laptop. i'm using SSL 2.0.

me SL1 and sony vaio s11v9e.
all of the "normal" issues under win 7

with a downgrade to xp it´s even worse, that´s where i don´t get a scope view on the right deck (left deck after pressing inout reverse) and only one deck working

hey i have i3 chip this is working so far for me let me know if it works for you.
"I got another thing to try has worked ok for today everything is fine would like to know if anyone else could try this and let me know ?
go to BIOS menu by pressing F2 on system startup. After go to advanced tab and ther try turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB emulation. i combined this with previous thing
(go to Device Manager and check USB devices -USB root hub and click on devices. Once device window with details has been opened (properties) please select Power Managment tab and make sure option of Power Save is unchecked.
NOTE:Please do same with all USB devices in Device Manager)
and so far .....so good "

ASUS G73 PC
i7 mobile processor
57SL

Hey Everyone,

I feel your pain, and that's why I have not upgraded my laptop. I am still running a dual core. As an IT guy, I would advise that you wait until support is acknowledged before upgrading. I have seen several articles here about Serato and the i series processors and that raises a flag for me right away. Also, Windows 7 support is not fully endorsed by Serato yet, or at lease it wasn't the last time that I checked.

The other option and the one that seems to make the most sense to me recently, is just buying a Macbook Pro. They are still dual core and Serato works really well on them. They cost more upfront, but the total cost of ownership over the long run is probably cheaper. I use a PC btw, but seriously considering a Mac because I want to start doing video.

Also agree that Serato should be stepping up to help with the bios upgrade. Perhaps we can get a little petition started with the number of Serato Djs using the i series processor, and have Rane/Serato send the the message to the manufacturers. Not just Sony but all of them. If they all see that its a collective problem, they may feel more pressure to release and update. If not, wait. Bios upgrades usually come out frequently with newer machines.

Have a great day!

I emailed Asus informing them of this thread and the problem with i series processors. As far as what I said, it was pretty much 'my machine doesn't work with Serato. Serato says it's your problem, will it be fixed?' During typing my message to them, I kept saying to myself why the hell am I having to do this?

I'll post up their response whenever I get it.

Serato also indicates that

"We have discovered that there may be a compatibility problem between the computer's BIOS and the new controller chipset Intel uses with these processors."

So what this tells me is that the problem is intermittent.

The other thing is that most laptops that are preconfigured from Sony, Dell, etc all come with all kinds of crap on them. The best thing to do is format them and do a clean install. I have done this with laptops that were running Serato badly, and after the clean install, they run perfectly.

Mine is a dual core 1.8 and it's even running video SL with only shared ram. That's with a clean install and nothing else on it but Serato and windows and anti virus.

No offense but if you bought a laptop to primarily use for Serato you should've bought a Mac. It runs like a dream on Macs.

thx for the advice but please don´t tell me about using a macbook.
the reason i "upgraded" to an new laptop is because i didn´t own a laptop before.
it´s my own fault that i did´nt think about new processors causing problems.
till this day i use my buddys 5 year old fujitsu amilo. in my opinion i should have bought a simple cheap laptop for maybe 300 bucks that would have done the job.
the reason i spent about a 1000 was because i thought of getting the newest technology available. i still don´t get why people always get on my nerves with stuf like "that wouldn´t have happened with a mac". in terms of money i think it´s senseless to spend so much money for simple core2duo technology, besides not everybody wants to use macos, including me.lets just stop talking about these things before this ends in a mac-discussion please.
i seriously respect and ackknowledge your advice though, no offense at all ;) as you can see this whole issue is really annoying me and many others.

there´s gotta be a solution really soon

I would just like to report that the gig Friday went off without a single glitch...
had Serato set up playing background music for like 3-4hrs before the event started, then 8:00 to 11:45 of full mixing.

Running a Sony VPC-CW290X laptop. i5 turbo processor, 6 gigs of ram, Win 7 home premium 64 bit, 2.53GHz.

Serato version 1.9.2 (using this version as a work around for the known interface issue with 2.0 and the Denon HC1000 controller.)

Hey Lord J,

What hardware are you using? SL 1?

Have you had any glitches etc since then?

Thanks.

Yup, SL-1.
Haven't used it since then. It was a radio station "Prom" promotion at Riverside casino. But, like i said, it was running from bout 2:00 in the afternoon til 11:45 at night.

I have an ASUS G51JX and noticed this type of drop out when the laptop is in extreme turbo mode (power4gear hybrid settings)

I have to physically remove the USB cable to get sound back.

I haven't had this happen yet when running with turbo mode off - Although Im still testing...

Can anyone else with an ASUS confirm this?

I get my 57SL back from repair today and have a gig tomorrow. I have the Asus G73 so I'm crossing my fingers nothing breaks.

Here's my response from Asus. Clearly, I got nowhere. Any updates from Serato?


Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
Please try update the latest BIOS, I suggest you use the winflash utility to update the BIOS in the windows mode. Please firstly download the winflash utility and BIOS 205 , install the winflash utility, run it and then set the path to the BIOS, then flash. You can download the utility and the BIOS from the following website:
BIOS:support.asus.com
Winflash:support.asus.com
Please make sure that the power not cut during the operation.After that access bios by pressing F2 while the asus logo appears and load manufacture default, then press F10 save and exit.



If you continue to experience issues in the future, please do not
hesitate to contact us.

Best Regards,
Lathan
ASUS Customer Service

WTF! Do not spam this board! This is serious shit.

Yea, and another problem I'm having... it's intermittent and happens on 2 different computer. one is my Main (quad core) the other is (dual core). I just got my 57SL back from repair and before and after it went in (for a bad P1 button), serato would look like it's playing music as normal... but the sound does not come out. It works sometimes, next minute silence... you look at serato and the music is still playing. It is not hardware related either, no cable issues or anything. swapped everything out and did the same thing on both computers. It's very frustrating as I cannot trust Serato at all anymore. I've downgraded versions and it happens on older versions as well. might have to do with the Win7 64-bit drivers?

Traktor is looking more and more attractive at this point.

.. and here's the manufacturer's second response. Like I said earlier, we're told to contact the manufacturer about a mystery fix and like expected I get a mystery response:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.
BIOS 206 have some known problem so generally I don't suggest customer upgrade to 206 if the orginal is 205. But for your problem, I have read this :serato.com, it seems they don't tell anything about which cause this problem. So I can't tell if the new release BIOS will resolve this problem, system bugs also possibly cause this.
You could use ASUS Live update to download the latest BIOS if released.
Thanks for your understanding.

If you continue to experience issues in the future, please do not
hesitate to contact us.

Best Regards,
Lathan
ASUS Customer Service

Hey guys, has anybody experienced these i-series problems with an SL 3?

Hey guys, I had a USB drop out on my new ASUS G73JH-A2 (i7 quad core w/ BIOS 206/Win 7) last Friday. I shut down Serato, unplugged the USB, and rebooted the TTM57SL as fast as possible. Everything came back just fine and I finished out the night without further interruptions. Furthermore, I didn’t have one issue the entire night on Saturday. All I did was adjust my USB buffer from 5 to 10. My older ASUS G1Sn -B1 (Intel Core 2 Duo/Win Vista) runs Serato/Video SL like a dream i.e. 1-5 USB buffer setting. I’m shooting an email to ASUS customer service as well.

Hey aLiEn,

It sounds like your problem was with a USB dropout rather than a direct 'i' series related problem. Not everyone who has an 'i' series processor has problems running Scratch Live.

I hope, but sucks that I can't have a better USB setting on more powerful spec =/ Not to mention, I wasn't running Video-SL both nights...kind of scared to at the moment lol!

Logan D, is it a typical USB dropout when the TTM57SL completely drops dead and requires a reboot?

No i wouldn't say its typical at all. Could you please start a new help thread, and we'll take it from there. We'll need some more info about your problem.
Cheers :)

That is what I'm experiencing... however it happens on several different laptops (dual cores, i processors, mac's) with any version of Serato running... so the finger is pointing to the 57SL as the culprit. Problem is intermittent and time between failures will vary. Sometimes it happens 1hr into my gig, sometimes it won't happen for a few days... but it does and WILL happen again, there is no pattern. Sound cuts out, I power cycle my mixer and sound is back on again. Very annoying.

Hey YZ3,

What happens when you try using a different USB cable?
Same problems?

Yea Logan. I've tried several (3) different cables. 1 of which was brand new. I'm actually sending you guys my mixer soon. Spoke to Chad on phone already about this.

I have the same problem, same computer G73JH. All of my DJ friends who have dells/asus I5s & I7s are having this problem intermitently.

Been searching this forum for a fix to the problem i've been having, and this sounds very similar. I have a Toshiba Satellite with an I3 processor, and I'm running Windows7.
My Serato box is the SL1.

I used Serato for the past three years with an XP machine and had maybe 1-2 issues during the whole period. I loved it. Since i've been using this new machine, I get a dropout almost every time I play - although it's somewhat random when it happens.

The audio will drop out completely, but it will appear that music should still be playing - the software still scrolls, etc. Unplugging and re-plugging the usb cable will get the audio back.

I have almost no software installed, let alone running - this is a Serato only laptop. I have the latency up to the max. I disabled power save mode for all USB ports. I uninstalled the Toshiba hardware monitoring software (i noticed that if i start that app, it will always cause a dropout immediately). I checked Toshiba, and there are no bios updates.

The issue is still happening at the moment.

The one thing i've seen on this forum that I haven't tried yet is:
"Go to BIOS menu by pressing F2 on system startup. After go to advanced
tab and ther try turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB emulation.", which i'm going to try tonight if it's even an option on my machine.

If anybody else has suggestions I'd be much obliged.

- geoff

Hey guys,

I'm jumping in here to let you know that we are aware that there is a hardware compatibility issue with the SL 1 and Intel i-series laptops, and we are working as hard as we can to determine the cause of the problem and get the issue resolved.

So can you confirm that it's SL1 only? Thanks.

What the "i" series does is turn off the usb that serato is connected to . this happens to divert power to the program that is running. ther is a way of turning this off in advanced settings in what ever mode you are using usualy high preformance . one i did this and from feed back few more have also this stops or reduces drop outs .

Gear: Toshiba L505 w Win 7 64bit/4GB RAM / i3 / no hard drive partisan (sp?).
Laptop purchased 2/13/2010.
DJ Setup: SSL 2.0 + SL3, Vinyl control in Relative mode. 2 Technics 1200 MK2. Vestax PMC 280 mixer.

Well this is a BIG Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, if I may say so. I upgraded from M-Audio Torq to the latest and greatest SSL SL3 and ended up with all new stability issues? My band is frustrated enough from when Torq was crashing. I upgraded to SSL and though I'm no longer crashing, I just simply sound like hell and my scratching ends up off beat because of the USB dropouts and the buffer on each deck shows red all the way across. I moved the USB Latency all the way left and all the way right with no noticeable results.

I am in awe of the replies I just read from this forum...



...followed by...



...then the idea that Serato has an actual compatibility problem dawns ...



Please tell me this is a bad joke of some kind.

The shock and awe I have about these responses is that SSL - THE DJ software package that is known for stability and great tech support - has USB crap outs when newer and stronger laptops offer way more power than SSL requires. Even more so, I gotta shake my head when this thread was created 1 month ago and the support answers both on this forum and over the phone largely resemble the blanket tech support answers I got in the early 90's from AOL: "It's not our system problem. We're ok. It's YOUR system that is having the issue." which seems to be morphing into, "Ok. Let's say HYPOTHETICALLY there MAY be an issue on our end...." Meanwhile, I have 5 gigs to play before June 19. It's bad enough that many of us (myself included) paid hundreds of dollars worth of upgrades for their PCs and getting the latest Serato available are running into this issue. It's worse when the tech support we depend on to meets us with apathy, denial, and an "I don't know. We'll solve that mystery eventually." I can't afford to have my new SSL playing on my new laptop sound THIS bad.

Somebody please help me find a temporary fix to this. I'll worry about a permanent fix later. Just get me by these i3 chip / USB drops through June 19 please.

i know what you´re talking about. this issue is just so F***ED up.
even with all the hints and tweaks i never could my sony vaio to run ssl stable.
i had to borrow my friends 5 year old xp-laptop for the last 8 gigs.
the thing that bothers me the most, is that even if there is a solution by disabling network adapters, antivirus-software and whatever it would still be very annoying.
i don´t want to spend 15 minutes before each gig to disable this and that. even if that WOULD help (which doesn´t do it for me), that´s definitely not the way it´s meant to be.

till this day no bios-update from sony that would or could fix this up. still stupid replies from both sony europe and usa. i´m just so frustrated with this. the issue is about 3 months old, i would expect rane to write this down in their system recommendations. that would be the least for people thinking about getting new laptops or the sl-hardware; but of course they want to sell their product.

funny though sony sent me various emails to make a reply on their support, in terms of "was it helpful for you?" and such. i told em to rather install an automatic reply system since every answer was "our usb-ports work according to the actual standards". i don´t want to blame anybody for this, i don´t expect sony to know everything about 3rd-hand software etc.

from all i experienced: don´t expect this issue to be solved (at least concerning your next gigs)

*grumble*

What's worse is I'm also eager to try the newly unveiled Novation Dicer USB MIDI controllers with SSL, but at this point, I am not confident adding any MIDI controller won't add even more glitches and dropouts. True, I want the loop and cue effects to stutter occasionally, but I'd rather it be on beat and when I press a button - not constantly. =/

did any of ye try this ?
also
1/.Go to Device Manager
2/.Open Universal Serial Bus Controllers (USB devices)
3/.On the USB root hub right-click and select 'Properties'
4/.Go to the Power Management tab
5/. Uncheck the 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power' option
NOTE: Please do same with all USB devices in Device Manager.

And also,

1/. Go to the BIOS menu by pressing F2 on system startup
2/. Go to advanced tab, turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB emulation

followed by this
1.press windows icon
2. click control panel
3.click system & security
4.power options
5. if high preformance not clicked press on aditional plans then click it
6.click change plan settings
7.click change advance power settings
8.when window opens go to usb settings
9.press the + button to get USB selective suspend setting
10.press + again to get settings change to disable then press apply and then ok
this work for me and few others with "i" chips

On our sony laptop that reproduces the issue we can confirm that the problem is only with the SL 1 and the TTM 57SL. The SL 3 and the Sixty-Eight work fine.

A bit of technical info:
The chipsets that are having this problem are using a different timing mechanism for USB 1.1 hardware, and it's causing havok with the sound-card. The timing can be sloppy for something like a mouse or regular USB peripheral, but a low-latency sound card needs the timing to be precise.

We are currently talking with both Microsoft and Apple about the problem (since it's a hardware problem on both platforms) so hopefully we will be able to get some results. We are already making progress on the Apple side of things as there appears to be a workaround in the pipeline, so *hopefully* there will be a solution for the windows machines as well.

James - thanks for the update, it's appriciated.

I wish i felt confident that the SL3 would work, but earlier in this thread
people seem to be saying they are having the problem using SL3 boxes.
I might consider upgrading if it was rock solid.

FYI - I tried the BIOS USB setting changes as outlined by 55David and others.
I rebooted and played for about 30 mins and had another dropout - no change.

I don't think there is a setting option anywhere that will resolve this.

Fellas,
I've have been following this thread for a while now and I wanted to add my findings...

I have a Dell Laptop w/ the following...
Intel Core i7 1.6 Ghz CPU
4 MB RAM
500 Gig HD 7200 RPM
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
Latest bios, drivers, etc.

I have been experiencing the same issues. I bought this laptop primarily to run Serato. I have used Serato on a friend's laptop (HP, dual core CPU 2MB RAM SL 1.9.2) and have never seen these issues. I am really hard pressed to think that this is a hardware issue since this is happening to different types of laptops. USB has to follow a industry standard when manufactured. I really think that this is software related.
When I first loaded Serato (1.9.2) on my machine, I cannot recall having this problem. I only started seeing this when I started using SL2.0 (and it happens a lot when I am recording). I have already opened a ticket with Rane for a different issue regarding the DJ FX db levels dropping when applying some of the effects.

I have tried the suggested works-arounds like "Cutups" and others. I was able to get about 40 mins of clean mixing and the skips and dropouts started back.

It is truly sad that we, after spending hundreds of dollars, are left to find the bugs that should have been removed before this product went from beta to production.

Most people don't have money laying around where they can just go and buy a competitors product, but if the support is not forth coming, I think a lot of people will be forced to bail on Serato.

This is precisely the reason why we don't support AMD laptops. A large portion of them don't follow the USB specification with regards to timing constraints - which causes dropouts on those machines.

PS. I'm not making excuses - we are trying as hard as we can to find a solution :)

James,

No problem. I think that what we all expect is that Rane/Serato understand that if we as consumers buy computers/laptops that meet or exceed your minimum requirements for your products, at least make sure the basic functionality is there. Don't leave us to fend for ourselves, by saying it is as "bios issue, contact your manufacturer". You guys have the expertise and know the inner workings of your products to work with the different companies to find a resolution.

Bottom line, we just want SL to work with minimal problems.

P.S. My laptop is an all Intel chipset.

Thanks for your help and understanding.

Agree with the above ^. And for those who have the Asus G73 series notebook, they just released a new BIOS version (209). I updated my computer but my 57SL is in for repair... you might want to try updating to see if your SLL works better.

Can anyone confirm that 55david's steps worked or didn't work?

1/.Go to Device Manager
2/.Open Universal Serial Bus Controllers (USB devices)
3/.On the USB root hub right-click and select 'Properties'
4/.Go to the Power Management tab
5/. Uncheck the 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power' option
NOTE: Please do same with all USB devices in Device Manager.

And also,

1/. Go to the BIOS menu by pressing F2 on system startup
2/. Go to advanced tab, turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB emulation

followed by this
1.press windows icon
2. click control panel
3.click system & security
4.power options
5. if high preformance not clicked press on aditional plans then click it
6.click change plan settings
7.click change advance power settings
8.when window opens go to usb settings
9.press the + button to get USB selective suspend setting
10.press + again to get settings change to disable then press apply and then ok

Hey YZ3

I tried the setting change on the USB root hub along with the BIOS change but that did not work for me.

However, I tried one of the earlier mentioned tweaks/optimizations (www.serato.com) and it seems to be working, so far. Keep in mind that I switched to SL ver 1.9.2. The actual tweak I tried was the Processor Scheduling option. This allows you to adjust the processor priority for either programs or background services. I changed to background services as suggested.

I plan on loading SL 2.0 later today or tomorrow to see how it behaves.

I will post my results after the test.

P. S. I still have the suggested change to the USB root hub in place, but I put my BIOS settings back the the original.

Ok on the G73 just make sure your bluetooth and wireless are always off, and it works without dropping out. Even on a pretty low USB buffer setting, 3, for me. Sucks though cause I can't get on 8th wonder if there's a song I missed downloading at home.

Essin-E - thanks for that tip, i haven't tried that one yet. Since I'm really not running ANY other programs other than Serato, I don't really see how scheduling would change anything, but I'll give it a shot. I haven't tried reverting back to 1.9.2 either. I hadn't seen anybody try that and have it work.

Make sure you guys are running Serato in good 2-3hr increments. Intermittent issue may be hard to come by, but they do happen. BTW, regarding shutting off bluetooth and wireless, I've done 1 better and created a nice batch script for Win7 64-bit that includes all sorts of unnecessary services. You run the script and it shuts off about 20-30 services (some you may not have depending on what's installed on your machines) and then launches SL when completed. Let me know if you're interested in it.

Essin, lemme know how 2.0 worked for you.

Ok here are my results...

I loaded SL 2.0 using the same configuration settings that I used when I ran 1.9.2, and I roughly got a 1 hour and 20 minute clean mix before I shut it down (it was late and had to get ready for work). I will attempt another session again tonight to see if i can get a 2+ hour session in. I hope this processor scheduling was/is the fix because I have a gig to do this weekend and I don't need the skips and drop outs to screw things up. I guess I will still take CD's for backup purposes.

If anyone else (Cutups) tried the processor scheduling change, let me know if it worked for you.

Hey YZ3, I'm interested in your script. You mind sharing it?

Thanks.

I attached the file. It's named 'serato.bat' and it will stop pretty much most of the services on your machine relevant to network connections, windows updates, security center, any itunes junk, etc....

Hey guys, apologies if I've missed the detail somewhere in this thread but do you get the dropouts if your USB buffer size is set to 3 or more? Ours has intermittent dropouts on 2, constant dropouts on 1, and performs pretty flawlessly on 3 or higher.

It's not a drop-out per-say. It's a drop-out where the table is spinning but there's no sound that comes from the deck and it usually never recovers. If it does it drops out for like 30 seconds it's real weird. I got it to stop by disabling my wireless, but to be honest it's kind of a joke that I have an i7, 8 gigs of ram, pretty much a super-computer but still getting complete music stoppage drop-outs like this.

This happens at all buffer settings including 20.

YZ3, how do I download the batch file? I see that is was attached to the thread but I don't see a link to download it.

James,
I have experienced the dropouts/skips when the buffer size was anywhere between 1 and 10. I haven't set it any higher. Right now it is set at 3, but again I made a change to my processor scheduling and so far it seems to be stable. However, I am still testing to make sure that this is not a fluke. I will try to mix a two hour session tonight and see what happens.

Easin, PM me your email and I'll send it to you.
Justfrank, I believe I have the same machine you do (Asus?). It's pretty pathetic that a old 400 dollar Centrino with 2gigs of ram runs a piece of software better than these new machines. Just don't get it... but at least their actively trying to figure it out. It's only going to get worse as the months pass because technology doesn't go backwards, thus software products must follow and move forward as well to keep up. Case in point, ever notice how old RAM like pc100 is more expensive than DDR RAM... because nobody uses old shit anymore.

Cool thanks Easin-E. Let us know how you get on...

Guys, it looks like we are back to square 1. I started another session last night using SL 2.0 and 45 minutes into my mix, the skips/drops started again. I had the same setup as my previous test and it was pretty bad.
I tried different buffer sizes to stabilize things but nothing worked until I set the buffer at 2 (it was at 3 in my previous test). I'm not convinced this setting will hold.

Looks like I will be playing CD's this weekend.

James, any other suggestions?

I tried the scheduling thing that you mentioned Easin-E, and I got the same
result. Same dropout issue.

I borrowed my friend's computer for a gig last night - it's nearly the same model that I have, except that it isn't an i-series processor, I used my SL1 box and Serato 2.0, and i didn't have any dropouts in 1.5 hours.

I wonder - is there a good list of what processor series WILL definitely work with Serato? Since this laptop is really just for music, and for now that mostly means using Serato, I might just sell this one and get one with a compatible processor. If there is no real impending fix for this issue.

Currently the only processor we suggest using is an Intel Core 2 Duo.
I would highly suggest going with a Macbook or Macbook Pro as we know these computers will work well out of the box.
I cannot say the same for any PC.
If your dead set on going with a PC I would suggest posting a thread in the DJing Discussions section stating what computer your looking at buying and see if anyone else is using the same computer successfully.
Otherwise buying any PC is a crap shoot. It may work great.. it may not. You are at the mercy of the worst component in the computer. Many PCs have a great processor with a bunch of ram but may not have a good usb card or chipset thus your processor and ram won't function as well as they should. This is not the case with Macs as they are all built by the same manufacturer and have all the same parts.

So Macs with I-series processors don't have this issue?

I don't intend to switch to Mac, but it would be good to know.

Zach,

So what are you telling us? That if we want to use your product we have to buy a MAC? If that is the case then Rane should state that SL will not work on a PC. And why would want to limit your potential customer base to MAC users?

Also if a new customer wants to use SL on a PC, are you expecting them to purchase older technology? Would you? I don't think so. I think that your developers should be coding for new and existing technology.

Below are your minimum requirements. We have meet or exceeded those specs. The product should work.

Windows

* Intel processor, 1.5 GHz or better
* 1 GB RAM*
* 1024 x 768 screen resolution
* Windows XP with Service Pack 2 or higher
* Windows Vista
* Windows 7
* Available USB port (USB 2.0 required
for SL 3)

Zach has been very helpful in diagnosing my 57SL issue, however I think Easin really makes a good point. What I got from that response is that they cannot guarantee SL working with a PC which frankly, doesn't really hold water when you look at the system requirements. Furthermore, if these stability issues were 'known issues', certainly you don't want to mass produce it or you're going to have what you have here, massive amounts of people having issues. Having said that, I can understand that these were not initial concerns when Serato released, but it's very naive to think you can develop software for a specific platform and not have evolve with technology. The updates and stuff are great but if the product becomes more and more unstable as computer evolve then it's time to phase out. IF the requirements are that stringent on the PC it's running on, those specifications/requirements should be noted on the side of the box or at least updated to say that.

I'm actually very suspect of the Serato software going forward because NI's Traktor does not have any of these issues and it's almost virtually the same product... thus you have to ask yourself (as a developer), "why does theirs work and ours doesn't?"

Having said that, if Serato absolutely can't guarantee their product working on a PC they should just do away with the support aspect of it and go Mac moving forward, because it looks like it's going nowhere... and it's just going to get worse as the technology moves further and further ahead of where it's at now. Problems will eventually start to compound each other.

So we've pretty much come complete circle in this thread with every option being exhausted, yet the same problems are occurring. Zach, nothing personal at all man but your response (to me) doesn't give me warm and fuzzy's about Serato's ambition and/or commitment to fixing this quad-core cancer of a problem. I felt extremely uncomfortable with that 'PCs are a crap shoot' line. Wow. I know a lot of us here are just weekend gig and bedroom dj's, but I really hope (no disrespect) a big name DJ has this issue happen to them during a live performance because I think the resource hours being logged are not sufficient when you look at the magnitude of this bug.

Just sayn'

BTW, you guys should be taking video of the failures so we're all on the same page here.

man i feel sorry for you pc users :( serato should be offering more support for this surly???

I'm far from a bedroom DJ. I spin 6-8 shifts a week now that summer is here. I just don't make the money the big guys do to go out and "throw" away money on a piece of shit MAC that has the same internals as my PC for twice the money. Plus I play WoW and CS Source and games that aren't made for MAC or they are NOTORIOUSLY bad games when run on mac systems like WoW.

To be honest u guys wrote a program for 5% of the market share of operating systems in the world. And since we already purchased your boxes and mixers you can tell us to shove our PCs up our asses because you think that 5% of the world's OSs are the best fit for your software. And when we sell off our SL1s and SL3s and TTM whatevers to go to another software it's a win win situation because you lose one customer and get a new one.

Please stop with the Mac rhetoric because it's killing my eyes everytime I read it and it's an insult to the pockets and intelligence of anyone who owns a PC to run Serato.

This isn't mac vs. Pc. Let's try to be a bit civil here.

Hi Guys,

I just want to clear up what Zach posted above. This is what we know right now:

Some new computers (both Mac and PC) that use i-Series chips have trouble with USB 1.1 devices. We have a couple of i-processor computers here, and have reproduced on one, but not all of them. The problem affects USB 1.1 devices (such as the SL-1 and the TTM 57SL), but not USB 2.0 devices like the SL 3 or the Sixty-Eight.

We can also reproduce this on other USB 1.1 soundcards not made by Rane

So yes, certainly not a Mac vs PC thing, its a USB 1.1 vs USB 2.0 thing.
That said, we are still investigating this issue as top priority, to try and work around it.

^well said

So Nick what you're saying is that IF I go out and get the upgraded SL3 there wont be any of these problems? Or if I go buy a Mac?

Hey guys I dont know if this is a Solution but check out this Microsoft Knowledge Base Article. support.microsoft.com Curious how many people these specs apply to. I'm going to try this and see if I get a dropout tomorrow in practice.

Nick,
I wanted to let you know that I have an i7 chip, USB 2.0 and I have the SL3 and I am experiencing this issue. So it's not just with USB 1.1 devices.

Well DJed Video tonight for 3 and a half hours and experienced 3 dropouts/loss of signal. One happened in the first 20 minutes and then I was fine for 2 Hours and had 1 an hour after that. Nearly lost the gig due to these...

I just had a 4 hour session @ home and had 3 of these dropouts (reboot mixer).
I'm so scared to play out!

Just got a call from a Partner DJ of mine, and he's running a brand-new iMAC i7 with a SL3 box and he lost a Channel during a wedding. These problems only seem to be happening with iCORE series chips. I have a gig tonight and I'm going to use 1.9.2 and see what happens. Could this be a problem with 2.0? these problems seemed to start popping up around the same time.

FYI: If you find yourself having this audio loss happen to you just unplug the USB cable from your laptop and plug it back in fast. Serato will quickly adapt and you'll be back up and playing the same song in 10 seconds. Be advised if your running Video SL the fader will automatically reset to the Left Channel. If your running MIDI just give the crossfader a quick swipe and you'll be back in business.

Nick,

Thank you for the clarification. I'm sorry about my rant but trust me when I tell you I'm the vocal majority here. There are more DJs than me in Tampa Bay that are having this problem. And like I said, my Dual core Asus (G71) runs like a champion but my girlfriend uses it to DJ now that I have an i7(G73).

And if the 68 doesnt have the problem well I guess the public will have one less advocate once I get it here in the next month or so because I won't have any problems. But the 57sl is what I would consider the flagship of all mixers in the world. Its a great mixer to interface with Serato but also a great turntablist/club mixer even if you don't use the software. It's a win win situation for you and I hope u guys can get this sorted out because there's nothing more humbling than the music going dead for 30 seconds with a capacity crowd.

Hi Easin-E and others with SL-3s

If you could start your own threads so we could track your issue separately that would be excellent - The type of audio dropouts you're experiencing are most likely similar in symptom, but slightly different.

Everyone else with SL 1s and 57s -
It's the start of a new week here at Serato HQ and so we're back testing and troubleshooting this week. We'll keep you updated as we go. Cheers, and thanks for your patience :)

"Just got a call from a Partner DJ of mine, and he's running a brand-new iMAC i7 with a SL3 box and he lost a Channel during a wedding."

Not Cool at all, especially during a wedding. I don't even bother using my i7 PC

No Problem Nick.

I think I will name the thread "I Processor Issues w/SL3".

Sorry, but the post name came up "Audio Dropouts and Skipping"

Well folks I Djed Saturday night and had 2 Dropouts/Signal losses running 1.9.2. The first one was almost exactly 2 hours after i started. Coincedence? This seems to be common with the 2 hour mark.

Probably coincidence, but you guys are better off (if you have a choice) to NOT use these laptops at live gigs until they fix it. If it doesn't happen, ultimately it will at some point... usually right when you can't afford it to break.

I don't find that there's any specific time correlation. It's stopped after 5 minutes, or after 59 minutes for me. But it almost never runs longer than 2 hours without a drop. The times that I used my machine for gigs, there was a dropout during every set, which is usually between 1 and 2 hours.

Since I found out that this was a known/unresolved issue I just went back to vinyl for a couple shows and borrowed a friend's machine for a third.

Was this with the microsoft update installed from your link: support.microsoft.com ?

I tried something that came to mind today - I went into the bios and disabled the multi-core processing. I went out for about 2 hours and came back, and music was still playing. However, i got another drop within 15 mins of being home.

James,
Yes I installed these new USB drivers that Microsoft had suggested. The dropouts didnt seem to be any different. They occured the same as before.

James,
Yes I installed these new USB drivers that Microsoft had suggested. The dropouts didnt seem to be any different. They occured the same as before.

^^^^same here.

Does it look like there is going to be a solution to this anytime soon? I need to buy a new MBP now.

No.

Hey Pyro, the MacBook Pro issue is different to the windows problem. We've already made progress with Apple who will be fixing their problem in a Mac OS X update.

Good news, thanks James.

So I was just wondering, is anyone having this problem running Windows 7 32bit? Or Vista? or even Windows XP? Because if this seems to be a problem with Windows 7 64 bit only, I will use another operating system. I hate losing the sheer power of the Quad Core, but if its the only way I can deal until its fixed.

running ttm 57, dell latitude E6410, win7 pro x64 with 5gb ddr and core i7 620M - this is a dual core i7, seem to be having the same problem as you guys when I set usb buffer to minimum. I've updated to latest bios and configured OS appropriately. if I attempt minimum buffer I will get no sound from either deck until i switch off mixer and back on again. I could run with minimum buffer perfectly on my old core 2 duo system, im guessing the i7 issue applies to dual core models as well? and by the looks of things no fix happening any time soon?

Dude, if you have an i7 processor than it's a quad-core. Zach or Chad, if you're reading the above, that's a very similar issue that was happening with both my quad core i7 pc and my dual core pc. It also happened on my friends dual core Macbook Pro. Now my issue may have been hardware related with my 57SL (which received a brand new motherboard(s) but just sayn'... sounds very familiar. I have not had an issue with it since I got it back (I use my dual core machine w/ Serato). I think the general action Serato takes when it gets bad USB dropouts is to shut itself off, no matter what PC or MAC is running.

Um no. The i7 620m is a dual core that supports 4 threads via HT. And you're a "IT professional". I don't mean to come off rude or anything but if you're going to correct somebody else please have your facts correct.

Hello,

I'd like to add my name to the list of people with this issue and document my situation, which is similar to the posts I've quoted.
I only started having this issue when I recently upgraded to this laptop, but it has occurred during 2 out of my last 5 sessions; timing is unpredictable. Last occurrence was during my set at a crowded club tonight... very embarrassing considering we broadcast live to air from the club.

Symptoms: music looks like it's playing on the screen, but there is no sound coming out of the mixer; the channel led's on the 57SL do not light up.

Observations: the aux input channel still works when this issue occurs. The analog phono channels still work (i hear the high pitch whine from the time encoded vinyl). The USB warning at the top of the screen pops up just before the sound goes out.

Solution: the only thing that has worked for me is power cycling the mixer. Unplugging and replugging the USB cable did not work. Restarting Serato was not effective.

Usage: I am a resident DJ at a club so I spin every Friday and Saturday night for 5 hours (10PM-3AM), but Serato is actually running for about 6 hours due to sound check and warm up.
My TTM 57SL is the only mixer I use at the club and has been in service every weekend for nearly 2 years without any hiccups until now. I love the mixer and SSL, but hope I don't have to buy another laptop just to get it working properly again (last laptop died... dual core with no issues).

Hardware:
Laptop: Asus U30JC-A1
CPU: Intel Core i3 350M
RAM: 4GB DDR3 1066mhz
HDD: 500GB, 7200RPM
Mixer: RANE TTM 57SL
Serato: Ver 2.0.0

Thanks to everyone for documenting your issues so clearly... I was worried I was the only one!

Oops quick update since i can't figure out how to edit my original post.

My previous laptop had a Core Duo processor running Win XP and never had issues.

OS on current laptop: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Latency is set at 5

^^^^^ I have the exact same symptoms and I have also have to turn the mixer off & on again. Unplugging the USB cable doesn't work.

@ Serato

Guys, Can you please give us an update on your progress in finding the root cause \ solution.

Thanks,
K

Adding data to this thread.

MBP 15 inch 2.66 Ghz i7, 8GB, SSL 2.0, Rane 57SL

Pretty extreme dropouts. As in, totally unusable. It's just a garbled mess. The odd thing was that the laptop worked just fine for a couple weeks, including using it w/ SSL 2.0. Plugged in for my setup tonight and garbled mess. Took me a half hour to eliminate my mixer, decks, and needles as possible causes (since my laptop had worked prior, I just assumed it was good to go).

Plugging my backup, a MBP 13" Core 2 Duo, also running SSL 2.0, ready to rock w/ the same crates, same decks, same 57SL, same needles.

Seems there is certainly something w/ the i7. I had also applied several system updates from Apple in the past week, in fact in between my previous set at my residency. Don't know if it's related nor do I recall what the updates were all for (there was in fact a system upgrade however).

Hope the root cause and sorted out, I'm fortunate to have two laptops, but man, this really puts a hamper on things for myself and other users.

Actually, attached is a list of the updates recently applied to my i7 MBP that had been working and no longer is.

yeah definitely a dual core / 4 threads.

tried bios settings to single core, no speedstep, no turboboost, and combinations of those settings... just made things worse

1. So far our issue seems to be one to do with the new USB chipsets introduced with the i5/7s.
2. We can reproduce the dropouts problem with other USB soundcards running ASIO at similar low latency settings.
3. We are fairly confident that the issue can be fixed as Apple are going to be patching Mac OS for the bug and they are using similar hardware. Understandably Windows is taking longer because of the different hardware configurations involved... but we're still working on it.


@bakasan, the problem on Macs is different. Apple have confirmed a bug in their system and in the meantime we have a workaround coming in Scratch Live 2.1 that avoids the problem until the system update is sent out. You should jump on the 2.1 beta which is coming soon and try it out...

Just to add something to what James said:

There are two separate problems we're seeing with the SL 1 and TTM 57SL on i3/i5/i7 machines running Windows -

1) Dropouts. This looks like a problem with either Windows OS or with the USB controller hardware itself. You may, or may not see the "dropout indicator" light when these happen, if it doesn't light up at the time of the dropout that's because Scratch Live is getting every indication from the OS that the audio is going through correctly, but it gets "lost" on the way.

2) Complete audio lockup. We're looking for the cause of this, but it looks like some particular USB message is getting mangled between Scratch Live and the Rane hardware and causing it to fall over. If it turns out to be something we can detect in the SL 1 or TTM 57SL hardware there might be a firmware update Rane can make that prevents it from locking up completely. Stay tuned.

I hope something can be worked out. I would rather have mini-dropouts like I used to get with my single core than the ones we are having now. I got one of them on Friday, music stops and no light. Have to unplug and plug back in. I wish they would happen on the weekdays it would make my life a lot easier.

I'll deduct 1/2 a point on your ahole report card for making the "don't mean to be..." comment immediately following the "IT professional" diss. That said, yes you're correct... didn't read that he had the 620M series processor.

... and to follow up on topic, there seems to be a trend of machines experiencing the "looks like it's playing, but no sound is coming through speakers" problem.

I'd like to know if that is just an extreme case of USB dropuout-itus or if it's a totally different monster?

My 57SL went in for repair for that exact same thing. I had this mixer for 2.5yrs running on a dual core laptop without any issues. All of a sudden this problem started and happened intermittently for a few months before I decided to make a stink. Rane replaced the mother boards inside it, sent it back and I've been using it for 8-10hrs (on and off) so far without any issues. I keep my USB Buffer setting 2 clicks to the right, from the far left and will get drop-outs & crackles occasionally when looping and running a soundFX or something. That's about it though so far. I have a quad-core i7 sitting on the back burners waiting to be used with Serato but every attempt I make to use that machine with my 57SL fails. I get extremely poor audio quality and dropouts from hell.

Hi Andy, Thanks for the reply. When do you think we could see a fix? Do you think it's going to be included in the new SL release?

^^^ by the way, I'm referring more to the "Complete audio lockups" as this is the "biggest" problem.

I got a 2hr video gig at a club tomorrow and can only use my i7 notebook.... I'm very nervous that I'm going to get this dropout of death.

I'm actually considering canceling!

Gents,

This is what I have observed so far, I seem to have these dropouts ("complete audio lockup") when there is another USB device plugged in other then my TTM57.

I moved all my crates to the internal drive and have since done about 7 hours without this dropout.

I had a video gig last night and needed to use a VGA to composite converter which needed USB power. I had 2 dropouts when this was plugged in (before my set). I had to get another laptop to run the converter and got through my 2 hr set without any issues.

Who uses other USB devices (ext hard drive, midi controllers etc...) when you get this dropout????

You could use an i-pod/i-phone usb wall charger to power your vga to composite converter. Just a thourt.

Yeah I did have a variable voltage adapter but it was causing problems with the video output so this was a quick solution....

i get dropouts without the use of any other USB devices

I get dropouts using just my i7 computer with my 57SL as well.

this is to the guys that are reps of serato. when this many of your customers are complaining about the same problem with your product your response should never be for them to solve it themselves( contact your pc maker) or switch to a mac(as we see the almighty mac seams to have the same problem). i feel you should be at the forefront before these new product even come out testin to see how it works with your stuff. but i expected it because its the same thing you did with the amd processor(just said us intel instead) i beg of you to please be more customer friendly. (be thankful that mac had the some problem or it mite never get solved). remember there are more pc's than mac's fyi

ps i think you need to upgrade your minimum specs cause it seams nothing has enough power to to run this thing

here here !!! about time it was said !!

thats a good call though, AMD is rubbish. I was running serato on a very old machine before the core2, i'm getting about the same performance as i am on the i7 - it seems not so much an issue of power as it is compatability. these guys make some great products and its good to see some staff posting in here from time to time - but you're right that this is a major issue, ive yet to see anyone post that theyre using an i series processor without problems so i assume, and at the same time hope that they're on top of getting a fix sorted out quickly.

i'm lucky to be able to continue to use my old machine for serato, but i can imagine people just getting into these products with new computers would be furious. my suggestion for now would be that serato make the issue more visible - i'm pretty good at computers but still did not think to check for processor compatability issues, obviously there are a bunch of others who didn't either - even still now that i know this thread exists i end up using the search to find it by punching in the exact title, a sticky would be a start.

Looks like the developers are more focused on the new SSL beta....

i can't even get the sl1 box to be seen with SL. the driver installs with an yellow ! and when i start SL i get no interface connected. i called them 2 months ago when i got my new machine and got a bs response of "its your bios" i replied with ALL of my other usb devices work flawlessly. i then got a "wait for your bios update" which i did and it didn't solve anything. i called in again got the same bs responses and when i stated "so i guess i'll have to use another software" i got "yes looks that way" lol. WOW great answers!

No we're still definitely on this...

So I sent in a message to Asus, and they told me to call them on the phone after a month of waiting for a reply. I'm afraid this is going to be an endless technical support loop with no side taking responsibility. Especially Intel.

frank, don't worry about calling Asus. Been down that path already, they can't help you and you're wasting your time. Serato developers need to be doing this stuff, leave it to them to work with the manufacturers and try to leave them be so they can get this fixed.

I planned not to. I'm sure they outsource their call center to India and nothing against those allies of ours but I can't understand a freaking thing they say. So since I have a workaround (Disable all my network drivers & bluetooth completely) I'm gonna wait for a patch by either/or company and go from there.

Hey would anybody be able to try disabling their webcam in Device Manager and see if that changes anything for you?

I have done that. Still get the dropouts.

I have disabled webcam in the bios, but there are still dropouts

Cool thanks guys...

ok....i have had issues as well...BUT I HAVE JUST FIGURED IT OUT...ITS SIMPLE...PLEASE READ U WILL BE AMAZED HOW SIMPLE IT IS!!!

OK.....I have a fixed solution.....i wasnt going to rest until i found a way to get past this.....Obviously its an issue with the type of usb ports or drivers they use for I Series laptops....But its Simple.....If you own an Unpowered USB 2.0 Hub, it Works...Yes something as simple as that works, basically beacause serato box is obviously not compatible with alot of iseries pcs and their drivers basically the unpowered usb hub reads and communicates......Trust me it works.....i have been trying everything....even got my mates new Asus i7 which it wouldnt read and did the same thing no we both have no hardware issues.........all im using is an unpowered highspped 4 port usb2 hub...in one of my usb ports......SPREAD THE WORD to all thos having issues with ISERIES pc computers.....Test it yourselves at searto.....

That's quite a lot of ellipses. So to be clear - you plugged an USB 2.0
hub into the same USB port that was otherwise having issues. Plugged your serato box into that, and it's no longer having drops?

That sounds really weird. But awesome if it works.

Since I last posted in this thread, I bought a dual core laptop off of craigslist and have been running dropout free. I wish there was a solution so i could run my quad core machine, but ultimately it was worth downgrading to avoid the headaches.

This is actually quite possible - worth a try! Using the USB 2.0 hub could be circumventing the i-series flaky USB 1.1 scheduling.

guys i guarantee this works i have niw done it on e computers x2 i5's and 1xi7 and alk three had same issue.... now all 3 work.....unbeleivable that rane couldnt work this out....

Hey what brand and model of hub are you using?

It didn't work on the one I tried last night...

ya i know other who have tried this and no look.

so defo need to let peeps know the make and model number.

ok...the one i use is from dicksmith, it is their brand SO
DSE 4 port hubv2, usb 2 highspeed (ultra mini 4 port hub) model numba uh-315 its silver -(all 4 ports next to eachother)

Actually Guys

Just Follow This Link...It will Take you to their website to the exact item....
"Just some inside info, i used to work for them...These are never avail for online shopping so you will have to go into a Dick SMith Store, when you go to the link print the page out and bring it into a dick smith store they always have them in stock

Hope this helps you all out, as it has helped me :) any more questions just ask...:)

Copy whole link below and paste in your address bar...

www.dse.com.au

Hi KiddKaos,

We've been trying out a few hubs here and haven't found one that does the trick yet, but it's good to hear you've had some success with this.

Everybody:

That particular hub (product code XH0416 from dse.com.au) isn't available in New Zealand, and I don't think you'll find a Dick Smith store anywhere outside of Australia/NZ but I can see how a hub could work to sidestep the problem with the new i-series chipsets, here's the low-down:

It looks like the problem starts with the new chipset for the i-series processors (the chipset is a collection of devices either gathered around the CPU on the motherboard or integrated into the CPU package itself) - with the new USB 3.0 standard coming onto the scene USB 1.1 is falling by the way side and the hardware designers apparently don't care about it much anymore, instead of building a USB controller into the chipset that directly handles all USB 1.1, 2.0 and 3.0 connections, the new chipsets appear to be optimized for USB 2.0 and 3.0 only, with a second-rate "transaction translator" to down-convert transactions to USB 1.1. Our audio is being accepted by the operating system without error but then getting lost between that time and when it goes out on the wire to the Rane hardware, from what we've found out the header for the audio packet gets sent but the audio data is missing. If you know anything about how DMA works you'll understand what's probably happening, it looks like some kind of timing issue right down at hardware level.

In cases where a hub is effective as a workaround for the issue this is probably because the hub allows the PC to operate in pure USB 2.0 mode and the translation to USB 1.1 is happening at the hub. A hub that can do the translation better than the PC can will get it right and others may not. Also, if you only have a USB 1.1 device connected, the hub could potentially switch to "pass-through" mode and hand over translation to the PC again, which won't work in this case. So, it all comes down to the quality of the hub.

I've just got my hands on a couple more hubs to try out today so I'll post back if any of them help...

Thanks Andy, so are you basically saying we're fuched until you find a hub that works?

This would be awesome news if it's true. The guy said he worked for the company before so many he still works there and is just trying to sell hubs. There's a million of them on the market made by tons of manufacturers. But explaining it by referring how DMA works it makes more sense what's happening now. Back in the day I remember sound cards used to have to have dedicated DMA channels to work properly. Then PCI came out and changed the world.

Anyways a quick goodle search and you can come up with some ideas like this. VIA has a chipset that seems like it "translates' and here's a hub that says it has a "transaction translator". It would make sense that a hub with a dedicated microprocessor or some kind would do the trick.

www.via-labs.com
www.cooldrives.com

I bet a hub with the VIA chipset would work.

Funny thing about that hub I listed above is the company selling it is in Clearwater which well is 0 miles away cause I live here so I will call the guy on Monday and see if I can go try it out. More news to come.

More info on Transaction Translators and the difference between Multi and Single TT hubs. I think this might be the answer reading about it for the last 20 mins or so.

www.eetimes.com

Anxiously awaiting test results =)

*I also have a ASUS G73 (G73J Series) laptop btw. Let's go hub testing!

Anxiously awaiting if the ROOT problem will ever be fixed?

hi everybody,

I did a test with a usb hub 4 ports and a power supply 4.5 amp.
my serato is runnig about 24 hours and still playing.
check the photo's to see the ubs hub.

what brand name of hub are you using? Also, I'm sure serato will run ok but have you been dj'ing with it to see if you get usb dropouts?

hi yz3,

ist a usb hub from ednet.
i'm gonna test it saturday in the club.
did the same test before without the usb hub and every time after 4 hours it stops playing.
let's hope this will work out ;-)
BTW ist 4.5 volt instead of 4.5 amp (previous message)

PeeZee. A workaround for the G73 is to completely disable your wireless & lan devices.

Ah thanks justfrank. I've tried disabling the wireless/bluetooth but not the lan devices at the same time yet. I will give that a shot, I may not be able to test until Sunday though but will report my test results once I'm done. cheers!

AMD is not rubbish.

Wrong. This will not work, please don't get it twisted with other Serato issues. This is a brand new beast of an issue.. FYI - I've got wireless and countless other windows services disabled on my Asus i7 and it still won't run.

There are a couple of errata on the i-series chipset that apply to Full-Speed (1.1) USB devices, here's the one that I think we may be having trouble with:



If you open the Windows Device Manager and choose the View "by Connection" option you should be able to see which devices are attached to each USB controller.
Note that Intel have stated that the problem only occurs with another USB1.1 device connected to the same controller, a webcam in their example - can you see any other devices connected to the same USB controller instance that has your SL 1 or TTM 57SL connected to it?

There are a few things you might be able to do to clarify what's happening if this errata is in effect here - even though your webcam may be disabled in software, the physical device is still "connected" to the bus. If your BIOS has an option to disable the webcam this will probably do so using low-level circuitry on the mainboard to electrically disconnect it, so if you can find an option like this and exercise it please let us know if that helps at all.

In any event, the errata document I'm quoting from is dated June 2010, and the Summary Table of Changes states that "stepping B3" fixes the outlined issue. If the problem is indeed due to that errata (we are still working to find out if it is for sure) then newer PCs containing the B3 chipset version will not have this problem. If your PC has a verbose startup mode (many OEM PCs don't but some have a keypress option at startup to "show all the details") then you may be able to see from the info onscreen at boot, or from the BIOS what the processor stepping (revision number) of your CPU and chipset is.

If you have the B3 chipset and are still seeing this problem on all USB ports on your machine please also let us know, this may mean that there is some other as yet undisclosed issue with the i-series processors.

Here's my source for the errata document:
www.intel.com
www.intel.com
The file is on the Technical Documents tab, called "...Specification Update"

i´d really like to try the thing with the webcam. yet my bios is designed to give the user almost no options. i´m gonna contact sony again about this.

So I guess what you're saying Andy is that the people with webcams integrated into their laptops, that those cameras are running off USB... and that we need to disable it?

Thanks Andy, I've been pondering the root cause of this issue for some time (running with an i5 processor) and it really makes sense that the headers are arriving but the audio payload is not, given that Live still appears to think it's getting audio, but isn't :)

I've just followed your suggestions and it doesn't look like any other devices are connected to the same USB controller under Win7 x64. My BIOS doesn't give me any info on whether or not I have a >= B3 chipset and no webcam disable option either. I've had problems with other USB 1.1 devices, so this is in no way limited to SSL;

just want to share that my 2010 Macbook Pro 15" i7 has zero issues with my SL1 - no usb hub - just plugged into MBP

ive been running @ 2 with the latency and keeping bluetooth and web on in the background

still waiting for my VSL to arrive but everything seems great

ive played out 4 times and have had no problems

There's really not much at all we can do to fix this except to try and get the best information we can to send on to Intel/Microsoft, but if disabling USB peripherals such as the webcam helps then that's good information to have, I suggested it because it might help in the meantime...

Scanner, thanks for that feedback, it really is the most frustrating thing to be at the mercy of a piece of hardware you bought to help you do things when it ends up costing you all this time and effort. I can't guarantee that disabling the webcam would even help, all I know is that according to the errata document Intel verified the problem under conditions where a webcam was connected.

I haven't had any luck finding the chipset revision from BIOS on our affected machine here either but I've discovered you can find it by looking in the Device Manager (From the Start menu, right-click "Computer" and select "Manage") - under System Tools in the left-hand pane select Device Manager.

Then look under either System Devices or Universal Serial Bus Controllers for any line that has something like this:

Intel (R) 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family...

Right-click that line and select Properties, then from the drop-down list select "Compatible IDs", our faulty machine here gives this:

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B42&REV_05

In the Specification Update document for the chipset (available by following the link in my last post) there's a table on Page 12 and 13 labelled "PCH Device and Revision Identification". From the ID above, the bit that says "&REV_05" tells me that the machine has the B2 revision, which makes sense since they say they fixed the problem in the B3 revision.

Please let me know if you have the B3 revision (&REV_06) since this would indicate another problem that's not yet fixed and we'd really want to get that info to Intel right away.

Update:
This tool may help you get your chipset info a lot easier!

- In the "Search Programs and Files" box on the Start menu, type "dxdiag.exe" and press Enter.
- Click through any prompts that come up, then select "Save All Information..." and save the file to your desktop (or wherever) - rename the file to add your username if you like.
- On this forum thread, click "Attach A File" at the bottom of the thread and upload the saved file to us.

By the way, if you're really sick and tired of this problem and your machine has the faulty chipset and is still under warranty, you could print out the saved report, print out the chipset errata document (I'll upload it to make it easier) and see if you can get your machine replaced with a newer one that has the updated chipset in it.

There "may be" something Microsoft can do in a hot-fix, and there's a very slim chance that we might find out something new that allows us to work around the problem but the likelihood is that there's no workaround for this.

If you can prove to your vendor that your machine is not fit for purpose (state that your purpose for it is to use it with a "Full Speed USB audio interface"), or even in this case that it has a "manufacturing defect" (i.e. faulty chipset design), then you may be able to get a working replacement and that might end up being the quickest path to a fix.

Hi andy,

can you take a look at this file pleas?

Hi Andy,

Just checked the 'Compatible IDs' for my controllers and got this:

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B34&REV_06

So it looks like, unfortunately, the problem also affects the B3 revision.

Thanks for the info & doc Andy. If all else fails, I think I may go this route. bleh..

*In response to my previous post, I never got around to my testing yet =P

Ok, I didn't say services. I said "DEVICES", and it works. Period. And not just your wireless but your LAN also. DISABLE in device manager. If you would like me to fly you to Tampa and take you to the numerous clubs I DJ at to show you I would be more than welcome.

Hi ronny be, your system report shows that you have an "Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU" which uses a different chipset from the one with the problem we're discussing here. If you're having dropouts or performance issues you should open a separate help thread and upload a DPC/ISR trace report which you can make using the tool available here:
serato.com

Sorry about the confusion, I've updated the thread title to show that we're dealing with the Core i-series chipset specifically.

Scanner, that's not such great news but at least it gives us some indication that we have further investigation to do.

Can you please go back into Device Manager, select the "by Connection" view option and expand all your USB devices - then take a screen shot and attach it here? I'll attach an example, it's from a different computer so please ignore the device names being different...

Please check this out.

Looks like both you and I have the ASUS G73 machine correct? Anyhow, yea I've disabled the kitchen sink on it and still get all sorts of weird dropouts and sound distortion... just sayn'. What's the full model # of your machine, do you have the G73JH A1 or the A2 model? If you have zero issues, then I need to know exactly what you did and we can compare notes.

frank, also check the the USB revision thing as explained by Andy. I will do the same and post back here.

OK, here are the devices connected to my two USB controllers.

With no external USB devices plugged in, one appears to be connected to my touchpad, keyboard and Bluetooth module. The other appears to be connected only to my webcam.

Interestingly, I can - of course - disable the webcam here, so despite not having a BIOS option to do so, this may be enough to ensure I can run with my SL1 box being the only device communicating with the controller. I'll have a mix this evening and see if this improves matters.

If it does, then that's great news for Inspiron N5010 owners or anybody else that has a single device connected to a USB controller that they can happily disable. This would also imply that Intel's claims that the issue (if indeed this is the underlying problem) is fixed for the B3 revision of the chipset is unfounded.

Anyway, all pure speculation. I'll experiment and report back...

It's Rev06

Here's the latest E-Mail I got from Asus.

"From the site you give me I konw that it's not ASUS responsibility entirely.Sony's products also have this issue.For there is no new BIOS being released,would you like to wait for the solution.

Sorry for the inconvenience."

My machine says I have PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B3C&REV_06

Just finished mixing, or rather the usual audio dropout finished my mix for me after about an hour. So, it looks like disabling all devices but the SL1 box for a given USB controller makes no difference, and as I'm supposed to have the B3 revision of the controller that addresses the issue raised in the errata doc, I can only assume that this is not what's causing the dropouts.

The webcam may still be generating some USB traffic, as I've only disabled it under Windows, but I seriously doubt it.

I was thinking I might have a play with USB Sniffer or some such, when I have some time over the weekend, to see if that throws any light on the situation. But I'm sure the dev team are doing this kind of thing already and just seeing truncated packets appearing for no apparent reason?

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this is a firmware issue that can only be addressed by a BIOS fix, which would leave us back where we started. Apart from the whole: 'use an external hub' workaround, that seems like my most promising option at the moment...

anyone know if these issues exist for people using torq or traktor with i3, i5, i7 processors?

Either that or the fix isn't good in all cases, the info in the errata doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that they've observed the problem and tested the fix under a very wide range of conditions...

That's still an unknown as I see it too, it depends on what nature of bus traffic from the device is killing things for us.

Scanner, I'm really interested to see any result from the USB sniffer if you get as far as doing that, I may not be able to test that myself but I'll try to get something similar happening here as well.

Just to confirm a few things, a couple of questions for those with the B3 (Rev 06) chipset who are still having dropout problems:

- Do you see the "USB dropout" indicator come on at all when you dropouts are happening?
If the dropout light is on, then the issue we're looking at here is most likely not what's causing the dropout, and you should do the usual checks for DPC/ISR latency in other system drivers to see if that's a contributing factor.

- What USB buffer settings are you using, and is there any setting that doesn't exhibit the problem?
Remember that buffer settings of 5 or below have been measured to give overall latency significantly lower than other DVS systems and with the minimum latency setting you're getting true round-trip latency of around 8ms compared to 13ms or more on other platforms we've measured in the past. If your machine is tuned for performance and you're still getting dropouts on a buffer of 5 or more that aren't due to an issue with some other driver in your system, and that don't show up as detectable USB dropouts in Scratch Live then that's specifically what we're looking for. Please also remember that having a multi-core/hyperthreading processor won't give you better performance in all cases (a quad core processor running at 1.6GHz won't always outperform a dual-core CPU running at 2.0GHz)

shock211, just a word of clarification, it's really not the software (Scratch Live, Torq, Traktor) that will show up the issue, it's the combination of the 5 series/3400 series chipset and a USB 1.1 audio device that appears to be the problem. There aren't many USB 1.1 multichannel audio devices around apart from the SL 1 and TTM 57SL that run in "super-low-latency" mode, even later Rane interfaces no longer prefer USB 1.1 over USB 2.0. It's a rather unfortunate effect of those two audio interfaces having been around for a "long time" in terms of the Digital Vinyl game. If you have a friend with an SL3 to try out (USB 2.0) then that's probably a better comparison to draw since the M-Audio Torq and NI interfaces are USB 2.0.

I'll be back after the weekend to hit this one again...

- The USB dropout indicator most of the time does not come on.
- I have tried every USB buffer setting.

I can reproduce what you are talking about on a buffer of 5 or more and the dropout not show up as detectable USB dropouts in Scratch Live. I'm gonna practice one click flares & combos all day and I'll video tape it.

Here we go. I was taping at 5 latency setting and got one drop out when I wasn't taping. I was pretty pissed. So I set it at one to show you exactly what happens at 5+. No light, but the light will show back up if you give it time.

Watchwww.youtube.com

man that sucks, i was pc 4 life, until i started getting issues that cant even seem to be resolved from Rane with my 2 pc laptops

may i ask why you spent all that money on the asus when you were right in the same range for a mac?

also have you had a chance to try out a SL3 and replicate the same issues?

Uhh wrong. An i7 mac with 8 gigs of ram and a Terrabyte of 7200 rpm HD space would have been well over 3200. It still is 3K for less than that. It's happening to the Macs also but there's a fix for it in the next Serato patch.

Oh and also an ATI 5870 video card. I paid 1600 total, delivery, tax, etc.

well maybe for the 17in

i paid 22xx - for the 15in i7 - 4gb ram and 500hd. sourcing 8gb ram your looking at close to another 300 (which so far for me 8gb is unnecessary) but you could easily source a larger hard drive for under 200, even so why would you even really need a 1tb, everything runs fine on external drives - graphics well, your sol but its obviously handles everything Ranes been throwing at it

and as far as the issues with the i7, ive yet to run into any on my MBP

either way, hope you get it figured out, nothings worse than an unstable machine

not trying to piss ya off or get in a war, just trying to see your reasoning

Let's please try to keep this on topic people, and post only information relevant to the problem at hand?

Thanks for the video djjustfrank, I'll check it out shortly...

Is this just a time wasting strategy by Rane and Serato to get the public to purchase the SL3 so the problem would go away and then we can be told that the SL1 is discontinued and there are no longer any fixes for it?

I would Imagine that they are working on the problem feverishly but it kinda feels that way doesnt it. Is the SL3 the Absolute Answer? Havent people had problems with that one too?

Tried every workaround mentioned this weekend during a 4 hour set and had a audio loss about 20 mins in, another 10 mins, and then went almost the entire time and had my last one 25 mins before shutdown. The first two I was connected to a HIgh End Macally Powered hub with another 1.1 device and a 2.0 device attached. After the 2nd audio loss I plugged directly into the computer and it went about 3 hours before it did it again. My system is running USB system revision 6 and my SL1 was on its own USB root Hub but was only taking 1% bandwidth. Could the bandwidth be a problem? I couldnt change it. I using a Asus G60JX gaming Laptop running Windows 7 64 bit. Would this problem be averted if I backpeddled to XP? Not sure the mother board will even support it

I'm running the Asus G51Jx with Windows 7 x64 and no longer getting these dropouts (complete audio loss etc) with my 57. I disabled my camera and esata in the bios and network adapters & bluetooth device in device manager... I also moved my crates to an an internal drive to reduce the USB devices connected. Since doing this I have not had a dropout of death... Put in maybe 50 hours so far...

Prior to this I ran windows XP x64 side by side and it was worse...

I've got the revision 7 chipset (as I'm sure justfrank does too), just reformatted my Asus G73 laptop with 3 partitions (OS, APPS, & MUSIC). Created a .bat script that disables damn near every service but the necessary ones, installed Serato, imported all my music and will use it an hour or so each day after work to see how it works. I use a 57SL btw.

I too have a feeling we're just getting spun around in an endless loop. This has been a miserable experience.

actually, i have revision 6, typo.

Is there any possibility of a USB 2.0 upgrade from 1.1? Can there be a fix for the actual Serato hardware? If the SL3 uses 2.0, then could the same configuration be used to modify the SL1?

and the 57?

Ok, Dar She Blows... once again. So this is the major issue I'm experiencing. Same machine as justfank btw. Keep in mind I've even went as far as sending my mixer in for repair (before I knew about all this i-series usb 1.1 stuff), they replaced the serato board in the 57SL because of what was happening in this video.

What Happens: I'll be dj'n and all of a sudden the sound cuts out (dead air). Only way of getting it back is by rebooting my mixer (turn off then on). This has not happened with my Dual Core machine yet since I got the refurbished mixer back from Rane, just on my i7. I'll also get nasty distortion from time to time that I did not capture on video but will later on when it happens. Keep in mind this is a freshly installed Win7 laptop, see my post above. Most of the junk has been turned off (service wise) and/or disabled (LAN/Wifi adapters).

Just a side note that t it would be extremely hard for me to purchase another Rane product again, unless it's fixed.... which let's be honest, doesn't look too promising. To answer the above heads asking about a hardware fix, good luck with that. You'd be lucky to get a $25 gift certificate towards the next comparable mixer they release. No offense personally Rane guys, you just have no clue how pissed I am (and probably others) that we go out and spnd 1500+ on computers to use with your product (s) and it ends up about a useful as trying to dj a party with 2 pickle jars and a shoe box. Pathetic. Just do us a favor, if it ain't gonna be fixed in a month please let us know so we can move on and purchase an alternative... that's the least you could do.

Watchwww.youtube.com

i thought people here were having trouble with sl3 as well? i know a few in this thread have mentioned they're running sl3 with i-series processor and getting dropouts.

anyone else here have a toshiba satellite L500 with i3 processor? I've done the bios updates and have the dropout after about 30-40 minutes of play time with sl1

If you are having dropouts with an SL 3, then please start a new help discussion.
These should be able to be resolved with some basic system tweaks.

Matt...How about a trade-in plan for an SL-3 with a small upgrade fee and us giving you proof of purchase of computers with the known faulty chipsets? i.e. A receipt for the computer?

I would be willing to accept that offer any day. You guys could rebox the guts (5 bucks maybe?) and sell them as new. I wont tell anyone I promise.

If it can only be fixed via a hardware change then how about a small RANE USB adapter to handle the conversion \ sort out the problem. I imagine you plug it into the mixer \ SL1 and plug the USB cable into this device...

Needs to be cheap though....

justfrank is on to something however what are they gonna do for people like me who dropped 1500 on their 57SL mixer?

rather just have them fix this stuff.

i have dropouts with sl1. if the sl3 will work i'll buy it right away.
so the guys below running i-3, i-5, i-7 processors having dropouts with sl3 is a different issue?
Dj. Dr. Smooth

B-Naut

So far everyone who has said they are getting issues with a USB 2.0 device we've been able to help (as far as I've seen).

So anyone with an issue with their SL 3 should start a new help thread, which would enable us to help diagnose their setup and see what the cause of their issue is and resolve it.

ok thanks matt.
i'm going to start shopping around for sl3

SL3 is an option for me, but I really want a TTM57SL for complete integration and the butter fader. I can't afford a 68 right now, just isn't practical unless someone contracts me for 2 years. Maybe I can go with a midi-usb mixer and an SL3 and an innofader. I don't know right now. I got the money I'm just not spending it.

Something has to be on the horizon cause this PMC-06 is driving me crazy. Fader bleeds and the sound is average.

This is ridiculous. And to think Rane or Serato does not support AMD processors. I've been running Serato on AMD processors for the last 6 YEARS. Now I decide to get the latest Intel Core i processor and I am having all these issues. This is the second Intel laptop I purchased in the last 2 week not knowing what the problem was. Now i have to bring this one back again and get something else.

What really sucks is that to me it seems like Serato only cares about the people who run Macbooks. I refuse to be one of these MAC fanboys. I've run Serato on Windows with AMD processors for hours and hours with no problems what so ever.

You guys at Serato really need to keep your Windows users happy and dedicate as much time and effort into helping them as you would with the Mac people. Windows is not going anywhere, and I honestly prefer Windows over OS X. These 2 OS will always coexist . Its a matter of what you like.

You can't put down Windows, and you cant put down AMD.

I have used both reliably with Serato. As a matter of fact I'm bringing back this Intel piece of crap and getting something with an AMD Turion or Athlon.

On my 3 year old HP DV6736nr with an AMD turion x2 64 my Serato runs perfectly with my mouse and my hard drive. It really kills me that I spent all this money on a new laptop and I cant use my mouse and Serato SL1 at the same time. I think that is pathetic. Someone needs to get on the ball with this. This is expensive equipment and people's livelihoods rely on it.

Come on Serato and Intel. GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

djjustfrank,

What about the TTM56S? Same design as the TTM57SL, w/o SL1. It still has mag faders and all the goodies, if you can live with no usb.

I think we're drifting off topic here. Dj Ric, the same happens for mac users with i- series processors.

If you flip through the pages of the Help forum, you'll see a ton of users having random issues, like the sound cutting out, bad dropouts, etc.... and the problems are what you would expect when you see what type of computer they're using (i-series cpu). They must not know this thread exists. I'm seeing a trend too, of more and more of these topics popping up, so it's starting to spread. I'm going to ask again to any of you Serato employees in here:

1) are we wasting our time here trying to figure out what's wrong and should we expect this problem to be fixed anytime soon?
2) what are you doing for all these people having problems? how do you answer their concerns?
3) what are your plans for the 57SL, if it's still selling it's going to be more and more of these threads popping up.

Well I did speak to Chad Simer today at Rane/Serato tech support on the phone. What he told me was that there is an Intel Core i fix in the works for Mac users. It should be available very soon. He said that it's easier to deal with Apple on situations because it's one manufacturer and they have a close relationship with each other.

Now the bad news is that it looks "grim" for PC users with Intel Core i processors. Apparently most PC manufacturers are not quick to help find a fix or make a new BIOS revision. This poses a pretty large problem for us Window's users.

The only options we have are to run our SL1 or TTM57 on a Windows computer with an Intel Core 2 Duo or older processor.

And because Serato does not support AMD processors (Which is major BS). That leaves our choices even slimmer.

So we are left with going to a Macbook, or trying to find a PC with older technology.

Now there is the SL3, the new USB 2.0 interface. This has no problems with the Intel core i series. So another option is to spend 700 bucks on an SL3 when your SL1 works perfectly fine for your DJing needs.

Do you see how the PC user is being left with fewer and fewer options?

So today I went our and bought one of the cheaper laptops. It's a Gateway NV5378u from best buy. I brought back my second HP dv5t with Intel core i3. I had to show the manager at best buy that there was a problem and that I could not use an Intel core i processor so he wouldn't kill me with a restocking fee. After all the arguing he gave in and I was able to do the exchange.

I do have to say that I've been using this Gateway with AMD Athlon for hours now and with all my usb devices including my mouse and hard drive. Serato works smooth and the sound is perfect. It also has 4 usb ports which comes in handy. I tried everything to make it act up including switching usb ports. This computer stays cool and runs stable with very little CPU or memory usage.

So in other words I don't care weather Serato supports AMD or not, I know that AMD works well and I'm just letting everyone else know. Don't get pulled into the propaganda of Mac and Intel. Go with what you know and what you trust. If I would have done that from the start I wouldn't be on my 3rd laptop in the past 2 weeks.

OK everybody here's an update on what's happening with this issue:

We've eliminated our driver and the Rane hardware as the cause of the problem, and indications at this stage are that the problem lies either in the Windows USB subsystem or with some as yet undisclosed errata in the design of the the USB chipset on affected machines.
We are in communication with Microsoft regarding the issue, and are looking for the quickest possible resolution to this problem.
We will continue doing whatever we can to fix the problem or to provide any workaround that we may come up with in conjunction with Microsoft (or Intel, through our co-operation with Microsoft), in the shortest possible time-frame.

Now let me break that down:

- We have tested and proven that at the point our audio data is handed off to the Windows operating system, everything is still working OK. We receive no indication of any error from the operating system when the audio distortion/dropouts occur, which is a red flag because.
- Our collaborators at Rane have examined the USB output (directly on the wire) and proven that the data is already lost at that stage.
- Our USB 1.1 hardware has been working for (literally) years on a wide variety of Windows machines and across 3 major OS revisions, without any large-scale issues. The only thing that's change here is the quality of goods that are being put on the market by laptop manufacturers.

The problem therefore lies somewhere between all of these "known-good" test points, which is where our attention is now concentrated.

A comment regarding AMD - we withdrew official support for the AMD platform due to what was a very similar problem to the one we face here. We had no practical way of determining exactly which machines would be affected by the USB non-compliance problem we were seeing. We believe the issue at that time was due to the nVidia "nForce" chipset designed to integrate the CPU from AMD (allied with ATI) with the nVidia graphics chipsets , but we also had reports of the same type of problem on other non-nVidia-equipped AMD machines and we couldn't narrow it down without severely compromising our service to the large majority of our userbase who weren't using the faulty machines, all for a problem that wasn't even a failure of our own product.
We might be able to re-introduce formal support for AMD machines at some point in the future, just like we might have to withdraw support for the early generations of the Intel Core i series devices if a fix can't be found, that's life. The only thing we can say for sure is that we'll always do all we can reasonably do (and often more than what's reasonable) to help make things go better for all of you out there...

I appreciate that some of you are increasingly frustrated by this issue and feel the need to vent. Believe me that we're just as annoyed and frustrated by this problem as you are and we want to see this fixed just as much as you, but this really isn't the best place to post off-topic rants. If your posts on this thread aren't contributing information towards a better understanding of the problem, it just clutters up the thread and makes it worse for everyone in here.
By creating heat in this discussion, we only end up having to divert our energy from investigating the problem to try and cool things down - let's have some clarity of thought and stick to discussion that's in line with our goal of finding a solution, please...

If any more of you actually end up taking your PC back for a refund or to exchange it for one with a chipset that works out of the box, please state that your reason for returning it that it doesn't function correctly with USB 1.1 Audio devices and that you are unsatisfied with your PC manufacturer and with Intel for pushing the new line of CPUs into the market without rigorous testing. Let the manufacturers know that you don't care about how fast they can increase processor power if they can't keep all of the other parts of the system working well enough to use all that CPU power in a real-world application.

Well said Andy! Cheers!

Thank you Andy. So I will add this bit of info rather than bring any more heat.

If you want a PC laptop that is running Windows 7 64 bit and a chip set that works with the SL1 and TTM57 USB 1.1 interface try the Gateway NV5378u.

www.bestbuy.com

Don't let it fool you because it's cheap. IT WORKS. It's like half the price of the HP I had to bring back with the Intel core i3.

Yes it's an AMD Athlon II processor at 2.0GHz. It uses the AMD M880G Chip-set. It's not the fastest processor, but like I said, it works. It has 4Gigs of RAM and a 500 GIG hard drive. Check the link I sent. It got 4.4 out 5 stars on Best Buy and that's with 284 people reviewing it. It was a little hard to get because it sells out quick. I had to track this one down at Best Buy that was further away from my house. I think any computer with the AMD M880G Chip-set will work fine for the SL1 and TTM 57.

Andy it would be real nice to get AMD back on board. Thanks for the info.

Nice on Andy. This was going way off topic.

(OFF TOPIC LOL)
DJ RIC

I would not come on here telling peeps to go with AMD thats a bad move. over the years ive herd of hundreds of peeps having issues with the amd chips. i even this week had a DJ that came to me and said about some issues he was having. his amd worked fine for 6months (with the odd screen lag/glitch) then started toget the odd drop out here and there. then bang static sound all of the time. this is just an issue with amd. Sometimes it works fine even for years and others it just dont want to play. But that is good news you have now found a system that works.

the DUO CORE BY INTEL still works the best out of all the chips intel or amd. BUT there aint many new laptops with these in now days. You can get the DELL INSPIRON 1545 That has a DUO CORE 2.2Ghz and 3GB RAM 250GB Harddrive with win 7 64Bit Home FOR £399.99 (yes you wont be abal to run video sl) but the usb buffer will go down to 4 or 5 with out drop outs.

Anyway look forward to this problem getting sorted.

over and out....

Hey Woolsey,

I understand that there has been some users with problems with AMD. I for one have never had an issue. I've been an AMD user since the original Slot A Athlon in 2000. I've run everything from Stanton Final Scrath the original, to Traktor DJ, to Serato SL with not one problem ever in all those years. And for my video editing with Pinacle and music with Ableton. AMD has proven to be excellent for any multimedia situation.

I guess it comes down to user's experience. I personally know 5 people using AMD and doing music and video with them. So that's my experience.

Like I said, go with what you know and trust. I know that I've rocked parties for hours and hours with my HP DV6736nr with AMD Turion X2. I have no issues with AMD.

But you guys are right, we are going off topic. I wasn't trying to be the spokes person for AMD. I really do hope that a fix comes out for the Intel Core i series. It's important for all the Windows users out here. I'm sure the guys are working on this day and night.

Ric, please buddy... can we just leave random amd posts for another thread? It has nothing to do with what this thread was opened for. I'm responsible a bit too with some of my posts, just sayn'. Open up another thread, it's better for all of us if we keep this technical in here.
Thanks.

YZ3, I first came out here to voice my frustration. I then came back to just post up a Laptop That I found that works.

This thread goes back to May. So that's 3 months of technical information and off topic Threads. I'm sure I wont be the last. I'm sure my threads are not killing everyone's ability to gather technical information because honestly, there still is a problem out here. If I can't come out here and speak my mind than this whole message board should just be completely deleted and disregard what everyone says. I don't see what your place is out here to come and single me out. For real give me a break man.



Peace

Thanks for the reply Andy. However, I'd be lying if I said I'd be a extremely bent out of shape knowing that the Mac users got a fix and the PC people did not. My expectation and I think others expectations are that you won't quit until these problems are fixed on both Mac's and PC's, the products Serato are supposed to run on.

"just like we might have to withdraw support for the early generations of the Intel Core i series devices if a fix can't be found, that's life"

That's life? Sorry man, that's a bullsht answer to be honest.

I am EXTREMELY pissed at how Rane and Serato are handling this problem. The BIOS thing is not what is wrong. It's the fact that Rane and Serato don't work like they should. Get to it boys or you are going to CRASH in the DJ market.

MTBScab. It's a chipset/manufacturer/Microsoft thing. Rane/Serato is doing what they can trust me. As is the users that understand enough about their systems. There are more people like us out there they are just lurkers. There are tons of computer with the two chipsets in question so I'm sure it will be worked out.

If not then we just buy SL3s and 68s. That's the only option. At least we can sell our old equip to offset the cost I guess. Someone asked me to buy my SL1 last night.

No, it's that Rane/Serato don't know how to make their stuff work with quad-core processors. It is 100% a software issue. If it's not, then why does the beta version seem to work better? Write it right, it will work right.

MTBscab you ain't a clue what your on about. Read the fing post. Intel have said there Is problems with USB 1.1 and the I core. It's NOT RANE OR SERATOS fault so shut up with ur bullshit!!! and let's keep this thread on topic!!!!!!!!!!!!! About fixes for this issue!

God some pol hay!!!!
Serao can you lock this topic so only you and the ppl you choose tobe testers can post in here??

Rant over. GOSH

No need to lock the thread relax, all we can do is wait for a positive update. They're working on it and will get us a fix soon.

I turned the multi core support and dynamic accelerator off and lowered the resolution of the monitor and have had no problems so far. Crossing my fingers.

If it's the ichip or the bios then why does Traktor not have the same problem?

Exactly DJANGENYC! I just finished a 4 hour session with only a few chirps during playback. Seems that turning off the multi-core support and accelerators keeps Serato from locking up. Can't wait till SERATO fixes their crap so I can speed back up.

talking more bullshit again I see.
You need to read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
because it's USB 2.0 just like the sl-3 and sixty eight work fine. If you had botherd to read above you will see the issue is with USB 1.1 audio devices I.e the sl-1 and the ttm 57.

Now try reading before you slag off a product that works fine with other chips! And when intel have even said about the issue!!!!

Anyway let's hope we can stay on topic and stop talking shit that ain't going to help fix the issue!!!!

Woolsey shure talks big. Must have touched him in a tender spot. I don't have problems running any other 1.1 usb peripherals. Only Serato doesn't work so Serato has the problem. Not the computer.

im running a quad core with no problems.

Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9550

its an intel i-processor with usb 1.1

should read -

its an intel i-processor with usb 1.1 that causes the problem.

you dont have a "I" series processor s3kn0tr0n1c

"i" series are the new - i3,i5,i7

im experiencing zero issues with my MBP 15" i7 and SL1 - i havent tried video yet tho

I have gone five for five in MacBooks locking up on me during shows. I don't trust my Mac to check my emails. It would be nice if someone made a computer that actually worked like it's supposed to. Macs and PCs need to move over for something better.

Hey did anyone try the Driver that was sent out in the emails? I didnt see anyone mention those.

Also;

This is a Nice machine and all, But I spin Video and this will not cut it.

And did you guys at Serato give any thought to an Upgrade Program for us SL1 users? I would definitely participate.

I'm running a Samsung q430 and SL1 on Windows 7. USB dropouts 5 TIMES! during a 4 hour gig last night. Samsung has 3 usb's and it seems like if I only used one on each side I was ok, but the minute I tried two on one or all three I got usb dropout and had to resart my computer. HELP!!!

It's an i5 btw

I wish there was a way to kill this thread without killing it if you know what' I'm saying. Too many Randys throwing posts up that have nothing to do with the topic.

@thebuttonfreak: I'm guessing you have an HM55 chipset. If you do, in fact if you have any version of the HM/PM55 chipset I'm guessing you will have these kind of dropouts explained in this post.

Please refrain from commenting if you have not read the whole post. It's starting to get really watered down.

Talked to a guy at Intel and he said to try and use a powered hub.

No go on the powered hub.

I have the i5 M540 2.53Ghz in a Lenovo T510 Thinkpad and the dropouts kill me! The USB dropout indicator light never lights up when the audio disappears. If it is a software problem, what is the fix? New versions of Scratch Live? If the problem is the USB 1.1 not acting nice with the "i" processors, why not modify the SL1 with USB 2.0 technology? There has to be software fix or something to mod the SL1 box so we don't have to buy the SL3.

As for the comment

QUOTE:
We might be able to re-introduce formal support for AMD machines at some point in the future, just like we might have to withdraw support for the early generations of the Intel Core i series devices if a fix can't be found, that's life.

I appreciate that some of you are increasingly frustrated by this issue and feel the need to vent. Believe me that we're just as annoyed and frustrated by this problem as you are and we want to see this fixed just as much as you, but this really isn't the best place to post off-topic rants.
END QUOTE

This really sounds like you're frustrated. Telling your customer base that you won't support the problems they have with your product is just bad business. The rants, like this one, are simply to explain that you as a product owner need, need to keep your customers happy, otherwise there will be no customers.

DJ Shelton you hit the nail on the head. Where are we supposed to rant if we can't rant here? Sounds like the Serato folks are just giving up.

Regarding general computer knowledge some of you should simply not be posting it all. The problems are clearly well over your head.

What pisses me off though is that serato/rane has not said it currently DOES NOT support the the i series cpus for the sl1 and ttm57 I hate to even word it like that because the cpu is not the actual problem. They simply wont do that because then there would not be ANY new machines on the market that they do support.

The fact that you guys did not do this yet is flat out bullshit. I know it is not rane/seratos fault but at least warn people the same way you did with the AMD issues. But it all comes to down the bottom line which is you can't do so because then there will no new machines that can run the sl1 or ttm57.....

@djjustfrank....Why would I not post it? I read the whole thread and posted so Serato could know of another case, on another laptop. If not here then where? This is a thread in the Scratch Live help section...no? I should just keep my mouth shut because they already know? All my other usb1 devices work just fine. I have an issue and posted in the appropriate thread. If your sick of reading it then don't, it's very easy.

And I updated my bios but still have dropouts.

I think Serato should exchange the TTM57SLs for Sixty-Eights. I never would have spent $1500 on something I knew would have so many problems.

Just got a new work compute which is a Dell Latitude, i5 processor. Serato dropouts are an understatement.

Going with Traktor fellas, I've had enough of this shit. Good luck for you all hoping to see an update.

Before I run out and buy an SL3. Are we sure that this is a USB 1.1 problem alone? I know that's been stated but I see a lot if threads with SL3 problems.

This was a really dumb thing to say:
“just like we might have to withdraw support for the early generations of the Intel Core i series devices if a fix can’t be found, that’s life.”

It's all over the internet and Serato is getting hammered for it. Even if it's true it's not the type of thing you say until you know it happening for sure. I'm not insane, I know Serato guys are probably working really hard to solve this issue and would only withdraw support if they really thought were unable to find a fix (where there's a will there's a way imo...). But if you do this then you might as well quit supporting pc's all together. Because in a few months the duo will be phased out and you will not be providing support for i processors or AMD. Essentially the entire pc market.

Hey Djjustfrank....I just reread your post and may have jumped the gun in my response. Sorry for the 'tude.

I think the point of that post has been missed somewhat. What I'm saying is that if the only fix is an updated chipset from Intel, then we won't be able to offer support for the SL 1 or TTM 57SL on those specific PCs with the bad chipset - "early generations of the Intel Core i series devices" is the key point in that statement.

We're currently awaiting a response from Microsoft, we'll continue to do all we can but at a guess it's probably them that will take the issue up with Intel if there's no workaround that they can issue as a Windows update or give to us to include in an update. We'll let you all know any more as soon as we hear about it.

Andy,

So you're basically saying that you guys are sitting back and waiting for the other companies to fix the problem? You are waiting for Intel to update their chipset, so that means that you hope the problem will go away. Now you have Microsoft talking with Intel.
Are you still producing the SL1 hardware? I assume you are. Shouldn't you at Rane/Serato find a way to make sure the hardware works on all laptops regardless of make or model or processor?
I understand that once this problem arose you needed time to analyze it, but now that the problem is established, do you have any plans to alter your product in collaboration with Intel or are you going to stop production of the SL1 altogether?

I've looked around for other compatibility issues with this chipset and usb 1.1. All I see is threads or articles about serato. You guys said you reproduced the problem on other soundcards? Which ones out of curiosity.

What you are saying is frankly impossible to do.

I think Andy will agree with me saying this... you are all wasting your time waiting for a fix. Does he need to spell it out to you? If you put what all the moderators said in this thread, dissect their words, and put it all together it equals "you're all fked".

Harsh, but true. Move on, no help here.

Ya, I have a buyer for my sl1 and am about to buy an sl3. Hopefully that will do it, if it doesn't then I'll be forced to move to Traktor :(. Which is something I really don't want to do.

I have finally come to grips with the fact that this issue WILL NEVER DIE. It's a matter of old technology (the SL1) trying to talk to new technology (I-series chip), and as most of us PC users know that old tech and new tech don't mix. I have been spinning my heels now for 4 months, tried every workaround (including the driver that got sent out by Serato that never loaded properly), and come to grips with the situation. I will now buy a SL3 based on the fact that Traktors software is like running windows 3.1 versus Windows 7 against Scratch Live.

HOWEVER, I think that Serato should accept that alot of their users are VERY disgruntled and step up their customer relations and offer a UPGRADE PROGRAM for SL1 users that can legitimately verify thru whatever means that they are REAL DJS (and not Bedroom DJs that claim they know how to DJ) using their product. I can almost guarantee that the Rane SL3 box does not cost $700 to make. Heres my proposal; If a DJ can verify that they are legitimately using an SL1 with a PC that is having this problem (and I can provide yards of receipts to back this up) let us return the SL1 box and buy a SL3 direct from you guys at cost. Simple. Easy. And will make 95% of this problem just dissapear.

So Cmon Serato. Its time to get your Reputation back as the Leader in DJ software. I guarantee that you wont have replace that many units, but the PR from this will definitely give you guys back credability on this issue. And if you do help most of us out you will make a little more money and keep more copies of Traktor off the streets.

I have said my piece. Balls in your court.
Dj Mobius

I already had that idea two weeks ago.

+1

OR even an hardware upgrade - Change USB 1.1 to 2.0... I would be OK with paying for Shipping....

recently I've been thinking I might be coming to the end of the line with my laptop. there just doesnt seem to be enough power in the old dog these days. I want to try ITCH, but I also want to keep using a TTM57 and a SL1.

I've been reading this forum for about an hour now and my options seem to look like this:

Stay clear of AMD chips
i3, i5, i7 have major issues
Mac's are dual core or intel i-series

so, what exactly ARE they options for someone wanting to buy a new laptop to use for gigs these days?

Duel core mac ^^^ best option works perfectly

dual core is old technology now, I'm not prepared to spend that kind of money on old kit

Then you have no option other than to get a sl3 or a 68. Or get a mac with a I series and hope there's a fix, looks more promising for a fix on a mac than pc

so the options are:

buy more rane hardware, both of which are no good for what i need (i use the 57 for gigs). no thanks, i was burned once before with the never to be seen features of the 57.

buy an out of date mac

throw a grand out the window in the hope something will be fixed

fuck. that.

i think i'll just stop upgrading for a while. itch will have to wait. bridge will have to wait. i'll just use 2.0 or 1.9.2 until they get shit together again.

how many more sales will be lost due to these issues?

Well supposedly Scratch Live live has been fixed with USB 1.1 compatibility for I-series Macs with the realease of 2.1 yesterday. So there you go, if you want ultimate support go buy a new Mac.
Too bad you cant get one with more than 512mb discrete Video Ram...

So will my SL1 now work with my i7 computer? I have not used serato in months since building this computer, if this does not work I am selling my SL1.

ONLY with an i7 Apple Macbook Pro.

Thats BS and I have updated my bios twice since I built it. I am using an Asus Rampage ll. I am done with this issue my Virtual DJ works perfect and continues to work perfect, just thought I would check and see, thanks.

im completely ok with you remaining happy with virtual dj

Why thank you.

I'm thinking about getting a macbook 15 inch with the i5. Did the patch in 2.0 work?

I mean 2.1

Hi thebuttonfreak,

We've had no negative reports regarding the change we made in 2.1 for the i-series Macs, it works.

Depending on how much patience you have left after all of this, you might want to hold off just a little longer on switching to a Mac (unless you've been wanting to switch for a while already) - there's still every reason to believe that the problem can be fixed on Windows just like on the Mac computers with the same issue.

To clarify:

The change that went into 2.1 for the i-series equipped Macs isn't a "fix" to our software, it's what is called a workaround. We switched to an alternative (slightly less "high-performance") way of asking the OS X operating system to handle our USB because the part of OS X we were using before (since the beginning in fact) just to get things going again while we wait for Apple to fix things properly to work with the second-rate USB1.1 support in the new Intel Core 'i' Macs.

The Windows machines that have the problem have the exact same chipset, and the solution to the problem isn't likely to be any more difficult, the only issue is that the "Windows API" for USB (the bit we call out to when we want to send audio from the computer to the Rane box) doesn't allow to tweak things to get it all working again (unless Microsoft get back to us with something hidden that we don't know about) so the change has to be made "under the hood" in the Windows OS.

If the machine with the problem isn't your only Scratch Live computer, then it might pay to hang in there until we hear back from Microsoft with an answer. I can say for now that we are in communication with them and so it shouldn't be too much longer before we find out whether this problem is fixable or not...

Does that mean that with the current workaround the latency is higher ("less high-performance")?

Does that mean even us users without the I series are getting less performance?

The change doesn't increase latency directly, it's related to how often the hardware controller gets told to interrupt the operating system for our callback, we end up processing more interrupts under conditions where the system isn't already being interrupted for other reasons but at high load things will balance out to be roughly the same.
As far as I know there should be no noticeable effect to the end user since the extra CPU time taken to process the extra interrupt calls is tiny, and is balanced out by having less jitter in when the interrupt comes for each chunk of audio that we send. Under some conditions the real-world performance might actually be better now that I think about it, but I don't have a way of measuring that.
In the absolute worst case, a buffer increase of 1ms might be required, but then only if your machine was right on the edge of needing to have the buffer raised by one anyway.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarifications :)

Thanks Andy,

Truth be told I've been looking for a reason to switch. I got bestbuy to take back the computer I bought a month ago and threw down the extra cash for a macbook 15 inch i5. I'm also already planning to sell my sl1 to trade up to an sl3, I have a feeling that usb 1.1 is on it's way out in general and this is the beginning of many problems with it. I haven't had a chance to really to play on SSL yet but this weekend I will. I hope this all works out.

I took back my SL1 and got the SL3. No problems so far. Two full nights of music, 6 hours each, and no music dropouts. I hate to say it, but I thing thebuttonfreak and others are right about USB 1.1, old tech, the new i series and other quad cores are getting faster and USB 3.0 is coming. I almost switched to Traktor, but the SL3 renewed my faith in Serato.

On hour 3 of jamming with new macbook i5 SL1 and a buffer setting of 2. No probs, except that bank a of samples can only be triggered on and don't turn off!

Macbook is not an option so I'm buying an SL3. Only pot smoking hippies use macs.

Might as well make the official workaround for i7s is to buy an SL3.

^^^^^ only tight arse bill gates Arse lickers use pcs :)

hey you know macs use PC architecture now and their OS is based off a heavily modified UNIX kernel right? so you're essentially calling yourself an asslicker if you're using a mac. don't believe me? open a terminal window in OS X and type this command

<command removed>

i take no responsibility of what happens if you do actually type that command ;p

Hi tehBEN.
I've removed the command, as it's a bit dangerous to tell many users this type of thing. There are always curious people. Hope you understand :D

understood :)

OK, so I read through this whole forum, and i'm still just a little hazy here. Can a Serato support member please summarize what the assumed problems with the dropouts are on a mac (which is seemingly fixed with SL 2.1), and what the problems are on a pc?

I'm using SL 2.0 on WinXP SP3..... sometimes use the SL1 box, other times use the TTM57SL., I use 2 pcs for gigs, both over 4 years old. One PC is a P4, the other is a Core2duo.

I presently have no issues on either pc using either device, however is it time to upgrade my pcs. My goal is to use the hardware I already own on the new pcs, but I see the i series processors still cause issues with Serato SL1 and TTM57. Does using the SL3 box concretely solve the issues? Functional SL is of key importance so please advise.

John,

For reference purposes. I use a Dell Vista 32 bit (Dual Core 2 Duo), 3GB RAM , bought two years ago. I upgraded to Serato SL3 and version 2.1. No issues to report with dropouts whatsoever. Since it's a dedicated laptop for DJ'ing, I don't see myself upgrading anytime soon. All my music resides on external HD.

I feel kind of retarded for even posting this because if anyone read the whole post word for word it would answer your question. So as a nice guy I will explain......There are i7 computers that use certain chipsets that have unplanned effects communicating with USB 1 devices aka SL1 & TTM57SL.

The chipsets with errata documents to prove this are the H55, P55, HM55, PM55 with the HM/PM being mobile chipsets and the root of the problem.

So if you buy a non i series laptop or a laptop without the chipsets listed above you should be fine. And no offense but a Core 2 Duo is old technology, I gave my old Core 2 machine to my girlfriend to DJ and crash mixes all night. i7 is the wave of the future and new 6 core 32nm processors are released under the i7 brand name and should stay that way till they produce a plethora of 32nm processors which I'm sure they will market as i9. And as I'm wondering if my crystal ball was right I googled www.pcworld.com i9 and came up with a processor that is soon to be released.

USB Buffer setting 5-10, greats problem is 64bit version, install 32bit version is better

Another person who didn't read the whole post. Man close this thread already. So many cluless people just tossing their uneducated opinion.

I never read the forums until I bought new laptop. I had a Toshiba since 04 & Sl1, never had one problem. I bought new laptop since in was time to upgrade. I picked up a Sony Vaio i3, 4g ram, 500gb hd. Hooked it up to Sl1, nothing but problems. I started to read all the posts about "i' series. Basically it was either let a new laptop sit & collect dust or upgrade to Sl3. Just like anything when its time to upgrade, its time...djing for 15 yrs, Sl1 was 499.99 when I first made the switch in 04. That 500 bucks went a long way since 04, best 500 ever spent. I just wanted share with the rest of my fellow djs, if you are upgrading your computer to a new one, you gotta upgrade the hardware for it as well. Computer technology moves so fast, I'm surprised we havent had this problem sooner. For all my djs with an "i" series pc....get the Sl3, you'll be glad you did. I just wanted to say, thanks to everyone in this thread, without you guys & Serato support with all the info, I probably would have thrown my laptop out the window driving home from the club...Sl3 & "i" series pc will have no problems!!!

^I'm happy for you. For those of us that own a 57 - cant upgrade to anything else (58 is not an option)!

@Serato - Guys, we cant carry on like this. You need take control of this situation and provide a solution - be it hardware / software. Why can't the USB interface on these units be changed?

I don't even think you have made hardware changes to the 57's & SL1's that's still going out the door.

How many more months do we have to wait?

^ Word.

For real i want a 57 for the bridge but F that noise with the USB 1.1 issues, id rather spend my money on a djm800 and say F the automation, which by the way is some BS, automation should work with any midi mixer

Alright here's my opinion on this situation because I've had this problem since December of 2009.

HP DV8T i7 Laptop 4GB DDR3 RAM 500GB Hard Drive
Rane TTM 57SL Mixer
2 CDJ-2000's
AKAI APC 40 Midi Controller
(For Serato so you know exact equipment I'm using)

8 months with this problem has been detrimental to my gigs and my skills (because I spend most my time trouble shooting).

* Now with that said if the problem seems to be with USB 1.1 would there be anyway to upgrade (Like a recall on cars when there's problems) the Rane TTM57SL mixer from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0 so it works correctly or would it cost to much? I know from a business perspective you’re trying everything possible to minimize cost and damages for this issue. Think of the long term damage this problem can cost though if this problem persists and the customers it has lost already and continues to.

Or maybe customers will demand a full refund on the product and there goes Serato & Rane's reputation.

Alright here's my opinion on this situation because I've had this problem since December of 2009.

HP DV8T i7 Laptop 4GB DDR3 RAM 500GB Hard Drive
Rane TTM 57SL Mixer
2 CDJ-2000's
AKAI APC 40 Midi Controller
(For Serato so you know exact equipment I'm using)

8 months with this problem has been detrimental to my gigs and my skills (because I spend most my time trouble shooting).

* Now with that said if the problem seems to be with USB 1.1 would there be anyway to upgrade (Like a recall on cars when there's problems) the Rane TTM57SL mixer from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0 so it works correctly or would it cost to much? I know from a business perspective you’re trying everything possible to minimize cost and damages for this issue. Think of the long term damage this problem can cost though if this problem persists and the customers that will switch.

Or maybe customers will demand a full refund on the product and there goes Serato and Rane's reputation.

If you honestly thing Rane is going to say yea, "everyone with 57SL's send your mixers in so we can retrofit a usb 2.0 jack on the back" you need to have your head examined. As much as all of us would want that... it will cost way too much time, resources and $$$ on their part to do so when they can just use the "sorry, it's technolgy's fault" excuse.

Unfortunately, they don't see the financial impact this has in real life on some of us. I lost 2 weeks of gigs, spent 1500 on a computer I wanted to use for serato but can't (no I couldn't return it after 30 days), 1400 on a mixer I've had for 1.5 yrs, and another 500 on a friggn' backup Traktor Pro unit that I plug into my 57SL. Ridiculous.

This is f==king studid ive had the same problem for months now on my sl1 and my i5 laptop only one decks works ive try'd everything a bios update and diffrent versions of scratch live and gone from windows 7 to windows xp and they still havent help'd me out rane are happy to flog us there gear but when you report a problem they dnt fix it ive had to use normal cd's and leave my sl1 and laptop at home this is getting stupid now i mite aswell put my sl1 on ebay

thanks for nothing rane / serato

Pretty soon, as more and more people know about this very upsetting and sad situation, nobody wants to buy SL1 or 57 anymore on ebay. You will sit on your stuff and wont get rid of it. I am an SL3 user and I don't have an icore chip in my laptop eighter, but following this thread, the problem and the answers made by the serato folks this is really upsetting/disappointing me. Obviously the companys who are producing the laptops don't give a shit about customers, but it seems Serato is not trying their best to find a solution for their customers and that is hurting the customers first, but in the long run Serato. They'll loose business.

I am a sl3 user now after selling both my ttm57 & sl1 box. nobody wants to hear that their 1400 dollar mixer doesnt work with a new laptop they just bought. I was one of those guys too. Like Jensen said above in a very short time & it has already started where ttm 57 value is dropping fast. I sold my tt57 for 1200. bought sl3 & a 56s...I couldnt wait for a fix, the clubs you spin at are not gonna care if you are waiting for a fix, they will get someone else who doesnt have a problem with their serato shutting off in prime time week after week.

How would you back up such a statement?

Ya he must have missed the bit where on Apple Macbook pros with i series chips works fine now from version 2.1.0 and that serato are waiting to hear from Microsoft if they can do the same sort of fix for windows 7

Ok, not trying to thread jack but here goes.

MBP i7 ttm57

Had weird audio dropouts in my headphones during cueing. didn't hear any audio dropout on the mains, just in the headphones. Is this the problem people are having. I'm also using 1.9.2

Well u didn't bother to read ASWELL!!!!!!!!!!!! man! Yo use the mac i7 you need version 2.1.0 of serato scratchlive. Please download that and give it a try. If you still have issues open your own help topic as this maybe a diff problem with your headphone socket ect.

Cheers

This is like a novel, just wanted the cliff notes. The first 200 posts were about pc's so I wasn't sure if this was only pc's. 2.1 is buggy, so it that the only option and does that actually fix it?

Yes there have been good reports that on macs this is fixed, how ever you might have found a new issue. I would advise you to open your own help topic that way serato and rane can help you and answer your questions on a more personal and better manner. Plus it will just get confusing trying to give help on here.

Cheers

So what is the issue that everyone is having with the i3, i5, i7's?

Lol READ ALL ABOVE! you will need 6 wifes to supply you with coffee while u read all that. lol

If you own a mac download 2.1.0 and if you get any issues post in the help as a new topic.

Cheers

Will test out this week thanks.

What I was trying to say is: when the companies who are producing laptops changing things so that their new chips wont work with some or all or whatever USB 1.1 devices without even telling the people than it's an we don't give a fuck attitude.
And on the other hand, I feel like Serato needs to put a little more effort in helping their customers with this icore problem. Like could there be little piece of hardware that could turn a USB 1.1 into a 2.0 or something like that?

Just sounding off finally.

I bought a new Sony Vaio with I5 and had no idea this was all going on.
Dropouts occur with no pattern- Sometimes after 5 minutes....sometimes after 1 hour so I can't use the laptop for gigs clearly.

Made adjustments to the USB power settings and device manager but it made no difference.

Tried to turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB Emulation as 55david suggested but couldn't find that option in the Advance setting of my BIOS mode.

I own 2 SL1 boxes and a 57 Mixer so it's pretty crappy if my only option is to spend MORE money to replace them all or go buy a used laptop with an older (Duo Core) processor.

Totally unreal and very dissapointing.

Yeah I agree DJ Lee it is unfair...

Rane support, care to respond with an update? As a systems engineer for a large media company, it would be great if I could let our users wait months for a fix. Pathetic guys, seriously. Lot of pissed off people here with nowhere to go.

im totaly with you YZ3 i hope serato and rane can read all this and see hw many peeple are upset, then they might get a f-cking move on!!

I turned off speedstep and usb emulation as well as turned off power save as described in the quoted text from 55david. Has been working since changing the settings in the BIOS and device manager earlier today. Even took the risk and performed a 2 hour gig with my laptop. Hopefully this will keep working.

For reference I have an alienware m11x with an i7

Well just thought I would chime in again and let everyone know that I lost my Video gig due to the audio dropouts. They said "Call us when your gear works...".
Thanx Serato

What i really want to no is will there ever be a fix for the i series processors to work with SL1 and the TTM57 on windows xp and vista and windows 7 ? i f-cking hope so what do you guys think?

You can't blame serato for this, yea they need to see if they can fix it, but just like when a new os comes out the recommend to not update. SO if a new piece of hardware comes out and it isn't fully tested you can't fault the company who's software you are using.

Drop back down to a core 2 duo until things get worked out. These guys have tons of shit to work on not just a bug fix for i7 laptops.

+ 1.000.000

Also i would think about upgrading that OLD sl-1 anyway at some point in time its guna be usless anyway (its old) just like all OLD tech....

At the mo you have these options....

* Buy The RANE SL-3 OR RANE SIXTY EIGHT

* Get a macbook pro i core laptop (works with sl-1 and ttm57sl)

* Buy a laptop with a INTEL DUO CORE

* Sit and wait and keep checking here HOPING for a fix.

TO RANE.....

Look guys the sl-1 is OLD OLD OLD if i was you i would be making plans to disscontinue this product. i would also disscontinue the ttm57sl.... BUT I would bring out the RANE TTM57SL MKII This to have a USB 2.0 hardware update.

i know this is not the best idea and route togo but makes the most sence...

my heart just goes out for all the guys and girls out there having all these issues...

thats tecnology for ya brand new the best when you paid for it walk out the door and its old.... tech stuff moves way to quick these days dont it.

cheers.

I turned off speedstep and usb emulation as well as turned off power save as described in the quoted text from 55david. Has been working since changing the settings in the BIOS and device manager earlier today. Even took the risk and performed a 2 hour gig with my laptop. Hopefully this will keep working.

For reference I have an alienware m11x with an i7

I feel for you guys as I've said before, cuz I was in your shoes for a week......GET SL3!!!! LJ_WOOSLEY said it best SL1 is OLD. Sell your Sl1 box & ttm57's like I did while you can still get a decent price for them. Before long EVERYONE will know about this problem & a 1400 dollar mixer is gonna be worth 14 dollars cuz NO ONE is gonna buy a mixer that does not work. A mechanic always buys new tools/computers to fix cars,trucks..etc. DJS are no different. GET SL3 & 56s for what you sell your ttm57 for.....before its too late! you'll be so much happier!

I'd rather have a 68 than a sl3/56. I need the 57 to work with video.

same here. I love my 57. I just want it fixed. :)

+1

Does an SL1 feel old when you but it new for 550? Serato or Rane should really put out a press release about this.

Well if you have 68 money..that would be the move, but alot of you guys are complaining about spending 700 to fix your problem...nevermind 2600. If its video you worred about losing from not having 57. Sl3 runs video... & a djm 800 is about 1200 bucks less than a overpriced 68.

Can you map the faders like on a 57 with vsl on a djm800

should have info you are looking for...

www.5min.com

I'm running Traktor on my 57SL (pretty lame) but works. I think others like me, like the fact that the 57SL has all the mapped and customizable mixer functions and assignable buttons. Before the whole i series thing, my 57SL was a beast cuz I had all my sound fx, loops, cue points, everything on the mixer so I never had to touch the keyboard, ever. Unless i wanted to search for a track.

Like others, I don't want to have to interact with the computer and don't want the 68, nor do I want to spend 2 mortgage payments on it. I understand technology moves forward, believe me, I work in the IT field...however if there is a fix for the MAC, there can be a fix for the PC. All this buy an SL3, buy something else is horsesh*t. I spent too much money on a new pc and the 57 to be running around again putting my dj equipment up for sale and piecing together new shit. Although I have a work around, until the official word comes out that this will NEVER be resolved, I'm expecting them to work harder with Microsoft for a fix.

Saying it cannot be fix is bs. It can, they just need to work more closely with the people that can get it right. I know it's frustrating for them, but unfortunately customers don't feel bad and could care less, they just want their shit to work.

Yeah I'm running Traktor pro through my TTM 57SL also, it worlks and the CDJ 2000's work too I haven't had any stability issues with Traktor, funny becuase the reason I switched from Traktor to Serato was because of stability issues and that's the same reason I've switched back.

If the problem is not going to be resolved then at least Rane and Serato need to discontinue the SL1 box and TTM 57SL there's is no need to keep selling a product that can't meet current compatability specs with the new "standard" in processors. That's like selling VHS to people today. Unfortunately since the problem didn't occur until after the product was released it is easy to place blame upon another company. My suggestion would be to take "equal" responsibility in the matter. I'm not saying it's entirely Rane or Serato's fault, I am suggesting a bit my urgency in fixing the matter. 8 months is way too long for an issue not to be resolved. I know that the tech support is usually amazing at Rane and I'm not doubhting that there working extremely hard to try and fix the issue.

But enough is enough, and I think it's time the product be * upraded or replaced with a similar unit.

Another point nailed. Rane, at least agree with the guy... give us that much. If you don't have a fix stop fronting, just pull the plug so we can all mourn and move on.

"If the problem is not going to be resolved then at least Rane and Serato need to discontinue the SL1 box and TTM 57SL there's is no need to keep selling a product that can't meet current compatability specs with the new "standard" in processors. "

just use a firwire 800 instead of usb in your ttm57. Will it work?

WTF!

worth a try

I've had the same issue as all of you guys...a seemingly "super-computer" with i7 processor, Windows 7 64-Bit, 6 Gig of RAM, etc. The "work-around" that has worked for me is installing the Window XP operating system (luckily, I had my XP Professional installation disk from 2002!) on my laptop and running serato in XP while giving my machine a dual boot option (Windows 7 or XP).

WARNING! THIS IS DIFFICULT! BACKUP EVERYTHING EXTERNALLY BEFORE PROCEEDING!

This was no easy task because my laptop came pre-installed with Windows 7 and no installation disks were provided because the OS is backed up on a "hidden" partition. Therefore, I had to go through a fairly elaborate process to install Windows XP AFTER Window 7 was already installed and now have a dual boot machine. See link and follow "Method Two"


www.sevenforums.com

Once you've got the dual boot option set up and XP installed, you'll still have to identify and update your device drivers for your specific machine. Since my laptop manufacturer is ASUS, that meant going to their site and downloading the appropriate 32-Bit drivers for my hardware (also not a simple task).--Note--my machine was shipped with a 64-Bit OS, but I just added a 32-Bit OS (XP). So, it took some time to find the right drivers. Eventually, I figured it out and now have a machine that has the option to boot either Windows 7 (64-Bit) or Windows XP (32-Bit)!

At any rate, the long and the short of it is I gave up on trying to use Windows 7 with Serato and my i7 machine until a definite fix is determined. To get to this stage was a serious nightmare and took over 100 hours primarily because I am not a computer/software engineer by trade and there was a ton of information to sift through until I found the right way to reconfigure my machine.

*Fix Update*

I've used both an sl-1 and a ttm57 for a week now on my i7 windows 7 laptop with no problems by turning off "speedstep" and "usb emulation" in the bios under "advanced" as well as turning off the "allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" in the device manager under the "power management" tab of each usb root hub properties.

*Note*
Make sure you also change the "power plan" settings to reflect the changes in the device manager. To do this click the battery then More power options->Change plan settings->Change advanced power settings->USB settings->USB selective suspend settings->Disabled

I've realized by simply un-checking this option in the device manager does not keep the settings after rebooting because the "power plan" settings must be changed to keep it from reverting back when it loads.

If you can turn off speedstep and usb emulation in your bios options and you make sure you change not just the device manager but also the power plan you will be good to go with both the sl-1 and ttm57

Hope this works for everyone else.

Does anyone else think this is getting so elaborate and extensive that an IT specialist would have scrambled eggs for brains after it's all done? As much as it sucks to say, the solution is to sell your SL1's and TTM57's and get the SL3 with your new powerhouse laptops.

Only sell if you have a new "i" series processor on you laptop!

I had to do it and the SL3 has had no problems for a month. I have an i5, 2.53Ghz, 3mb, and it can run multiple programs along with scratch live without missing a beat. I was so frustrated with the SL1 and music cutoffs that I just took a loss and sold it, then bought the SL3. Since there hasn't been a response from the Rane/Serato guys in a while, I assume there is no change in the solutions process. If you can afford it, upgrade to the SL3, way less hassle and you can get back to playing music.

^ I've been saying the same as DJ Shelton....for some time now. upgrade to Sl3 & your problems will be gone! You can still get 300 for Sl1 box..throw in the other 300 for Sl3, problem solved. It will pay for itself in 1 night anyways.

and what do we do with our expensive TTM57s'???

I had the same problem for months and try'd everything in the end i got sick of it and sold my sl1 i doubt ill go serato again not evan sl3

Price for a new RANE TTM57SL = 899 UK pound
www.htfr.com

Price for a new RANE SIXTY EIGHT = 2199 UK pound
www.htfr.com

So I think that Rane / Serato should solve this problem.
I bought a TTM57 just 5 month ago ..

Hey Rane guys ...
I think that the HW of TTM57 should be changed to support USB 2.0 .. but for all guys that already have a TTM 57 create an HW interface ( box ) that translate USB2.0 protocol to USB 1.1 .. can be solution.
I think that the price for this HW trick sould be not expensive.

What do you think ?

or take back my 57 and fit a USB 2.0 interface.

My 57 is also +-5 months old...

This is a crosspost, but I figure it's relevant...

Has anyone tried getting an expresscard USB adapter?
I'm in the same boat as all these other ppl... i7 cpu and SSL running horribly.
I have ordered an expressCard USB host controller to see if it will solve my problem...
I figure, doing it that way may bypass the crappy USB controller in the motherboard...
Will post a new topic if it works....

Hi lil vito,
yesss please let us know the result of your test..

So I sucked it up and replaced both SL1 boxes with SL3.
Tested both of my laptops (1 Quad-Core, 1 I7 processor) in internal mode for about 5 hours each and no problems.

I was able to still sell both SL1 boxes to mac users on Craig list for $350 each so it was cheaper to do this than replace my new I7 laptop.

Still doesn't solve what to do with my 57 Mixer though.
Guess I'll be selling that also.

I'm still using an SL1 with a new mbp and am having no issues, it has been fixed in 2.1 for macs. I will never buy an SL3 fuck that. if they discontinue the sl1 support I will drop serato and go on strike. I should not have to drop $700 on a new SL3 just to get serato to work that's bullshit. I already spent $2100 on this new mbp to run video no need for a stupid SL3. Serato should have TESTED these new I chip processors with serato on all laptops before everyone started buying them. Serato thought that with the new I chip processors there would be no problem. Well look what happened shit hit the fan.

Since this is the Help forum, I'd like to hear from some Serato guys on the status of 'a' fix? It's been quite some time... half a year since this problem started and it's gone nowhere.

no more truer words have ever been spoken(or typed)

FIx=SL3 or 68

I'm still pissed that I was pretty much forced to spend the money to replace my SL1's but I will say that the SL3 is smaller, needs less RCA cables and has better (louder) sound so it might be worth making the switch for some people.

I like turtles.

I have a mbp i5 which I got as a fix. I have no issues. But since I had a coupon for 20 percent off anything at musicians friend I sold my sl1 for 400 bucks and got an sl3.

ive had the problems for months now and i had enough so i brought the native instruments audio 4 dj and now im running traktor scratch pro and it works beautiful and its sooo smooth and cheaper to buy its awsome!!!

ding dong, guess it's been swept under the rug at this point.

No not at all. We are still working on this with Microsoft, and while progress is a little slow on their side, we are definitely making some. We will keep you updated when there is some news... just no magic fix available yet unfortunately. :(
Believe me, as a 57 owner myself, I really want this fixed too!

Microsoft slow to come up with a solution to a problem that they basically created? That can't be true can it...










Yes that's sarcasm...

Haha. Try using an SL3 with a TTM57!! Talk about redundant. I do it all the time. Getting a DJM-800 though and dropping in an innofader.

I know there is no relevant quick fix, technology will evolve, and some platforms will go by the way side. I admire Rane's efforts in finding a solution, but, if I may ask..... What if there is no real solution, since it seems to be hardware based?

USB 1.0 is being phased out apparently..... So, if at all possible, perhaps the true solution may be some translator that allows an Sl1/TTM57 to communicate with the newer technology. Maybe there is a chipset that would be able to replace the PC interface access control protocols of USB 1.0, allowing the "older" Serato devices to work properly. Obviously it would be an additional cost to the consumer, but if it were $50, I would do it..... That's better than spending $630 for a new SL3..... And you retain customer loyalty, with a plausible solution.

This is hypothetical, since from what I gather firmware changes may have been attempted with little success.... But to me, it could be a feasible option.

Keep up the good fight!.... I will hold out on buying an i7 based Macbook pro until all resources have been exhausted.

I believe the problem was actually created by Intel. They seem to be acknowledging it in this document: www.google.com

The software & the hardware & the operating system have to be on the same page and all three obviously isn't. Again, it's all solved by using an SL3. This problem is almost 10 months old. In the end you will save money buying a new box.

what kind of coin can I get for a 57 these days?

12-1300

listed. had enough of this shit. going to go for SL3 and a 56S, second hand ones as well so Rane cannot profit further from this issue.

he is absolutely right, have the new HP Envy 17 w/ a core i7 runng both scratch live and video-sl and I was having massive usb drop out and bandwith issues. when play videos in serato my cpu usage was 26-33% (which is great), but i would still get freezing and hanging. I was using the SL1 box at the time. I brought my laptop to Guitar Center and thy hooked it up using an SL3 and difference was unbelievablle!! I can use the highest settings in seratao and VSL withoud any problems at all. IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, SELL THE SL1 AND GET THE SL3. TTM users will also need to do the same right now. I would purchase a DJM700 and buy the SL3 works to about the same price you would spend for a TTM.

I'd got out and buy the SL3 (use traktor now with 57SL) if only I didn't have to play with the fkn laptop in the middle of dj'ing. That's the only reason right now why I like the 57SL, cuz I don't have to put my hands on the laptop.

yeah its really handy but i dunno if itll still be worth it by the time SL4 or 5 rolls around

Me, as like many others (as i see just now) just noticed the problem (after buying an i5 laptop - and having the problem).

I'm truly disappointed not because of the problem, but, because RANE didn't bother to send her clients an e-mail regarding the issue, so they wouldn't buy a f***ing new laptop with an "i" processor!!

so, i've spent nearly 900$ for a new laptop, got rid of the old one, and now I can't even show up for my gig in 3 days??

SHAME ON YOU RANE!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

DO A RECALL! GIVE US AN SL3! I DON'T CARE! I WANT THIS THING FIXED BEFORE I SUE YOUR SORRY ASSES, AND SO SHOULD ALL OF YOU GUYS! YOU WERE RIPPED OFF!

wrote many months ago that they should put this in their specifications or something.
but seems like selling units is more important.

got the problem since march. i don´t expect a fix.
as soon as the money is right i´m switching to traktor pro

I would love to find someone to void my warranty and mod my 57 to a USB 2 interface.... I'm sure there's enough interest and it would have to be cheaper than a 68 :-)

I have an i7 laptop, using the mobile hm55 chipset.
I use an SL1
I also used to have this problem.
But I solved it now...
I purchased the following expresscard: ritmotech.com.au for $32 AUD.
Now my SL1 works great!

I posted a while ago that I had ordered one, and that I would post back with results, but I got so excited that it worked on my new lappy that i forgot all about reporting in, and have spent the last few weeks on my decks every spare moment I get....
Sorry guys for the delay.

then as I imagined .. an adapter can solve the problem ...
for sure is not a best solution, but this allow windows user to purchase a TTM57SL .. that is cheaper that a 68...

That's great if your laptop has an express card slot. Most gamer and some high end laptops don't even use those anymore.

No express ports here. Everything will be USB3 by the end of the year.

maybe they spent too much time and energy building a "bridge" and cpu technology just ran right bye them?

Hey everyone. I getting impatient waiting on a fix so I am starting a petition to send to MS and Intel. It would be great if you guys would sign it too. It's here at wemixdjs.com
Its been way too long and Apple already got their fix.
It doesn't seem Serato is really getting any response from Microsoft
serato.com

Same problem with a Sany Vaio Win 7 64pro and a 57.

I have a ACER 5742 Aspire core i3, basically it runs strong no issues when i turn off the wifi. I've gone for hours and haven't been able to make the audio drop out even when i push as long as the latency is set to 5. But i'm still too chicken to use this new laptop in a party.

Honestly i don't care that i have an occasional usb drop out i'm more concerned that when it does happen the sound just stops completely thats messed up. It feels so random if i knew exactly what it was and could avoid that i would be a little happier about this messed up situation.

THE FIX IS SIMPLE....TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO IS 50% OFF RIGHT NOW!!!! I GOT MINE FOR $299 AUDIO8 2.0USB CONNECT!!!!.....THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE UGLY GUI & WORKFLOW...BUT FOR REALY TIGHT PROGRAMING AND CPU STABILITY IT CANT BE BEAT...NOW ONLY IF SERATO WOULD RELEASE THE COMPATABLE DRIVERS FOR AUDIO8 I WOULD STILL USE MY SSL 2.1 BUT WITH THE AUDIO8!!!!!

^^

but they wont make any money so I doubt it will ever happen...

TTM57 = Future proof.... What a joke!!!

@ sticky ...if they put a product key to thier ssl program they would!....even tho i made the switch to traktor, im still use to ssl's gui n workflow, so i would have ponyed up for just buying the audio8 case without the traktor program an still use my ssl! the funny thing is traktor gave me drivers for the sl1 an the ttm57,so they dont feel threatened. the bottom line is the audio8 is better than sl1 n sl3 so i had to jump on this deal!! and after playing with it this weekend yes u can tell that its a tighter program than the ssl, but the straight forward comfort level of ssl even with all its glitches i would choose to use over the traktor program as long as i could use the audio8 instead of the sl1 or sl3!!!! im sure new dj's [wich is new money] would love the benifit of the audio8 paired with the easy workflow of ssl!!! just my opinion

sounds good.

Hey guys,

I'm not here to vent or complain, as I feel that's unproductive. I have a genuine question that I'm hoping someone can answer.

Here's the situation: I have a TTM57SL and have been running a Core2Duo laptop that was pretty beefy when I bought it in Jan 2009. It runs SL just fine.

But now I'm being asked to do video. I purchased the Video-SL plugin, and my cpu just CAN'T keep up. The video output is choppy, stuttery and just plain unacceptable.

Clearly, I need a faster cpu. But my CPU is already at 2.1 GHz, which is the fastest Core2Duo laptop out there.

What are my options in terms of new, faster PC laptops (mac is not an option for me) that can run video and won't have these usb problems?

I'm not an computer genius, but isn't moe a question of how many GM of RAM your computer has (to make it faster) than how many GHz? How many GB of RAM you got?
2 GB? Make it 4 GB!

@pmjm

Wrong thread dude.

But you need to have a good graphics processor, about 4GB ram and a fast CPU. There are faster core2duo's than 2.1GHZ (see www.intel.com)

Been over a month since the last update from Rane.

that sucks - im actually sided with you all on this subject, even tho its not an issue for me currently

Has anyone with a i5 or i7 tried to install OSX instead or used VM - in place of Win7 or Vista

@dalite ...based on the answers by the mods, its the shortcomings of the usb1.1 hardware [sl1 box] [ttm57] so changing opsystems i dont believe will do anything. they even admit that the mac i3+ situation is still not a fix!,.its just a work around.

"they even admit that the mac i3+ situation is still not a fix!,.its just a work around. "

Yea, well the PC users would love to AT LEAST have a workaround. We're dead in the water.

USB 1.1 is very old.. it will end up soon and nothing will fix that. Maybe its time to sell good old SL1.
50% Traktor Scratch looks pretty good..

maybe so, but i dont have any problems with my SL1 and my i7 and i know plenty of people with TTM57's that dont have any problems as well

i figured it be worth a shot for some of you

@dalite u have a i7 mac or pc? most of the problems is with pc,..i have a pc, so i feel u all, my solution was to jump on the traktor sale,just to be safe.

Can anyone with a USB3 port on their laptop test and see if there is any difference using that port?

Somewhat positive news. I would like to use the TTM57 at my main club and at numerous others without having to hook my SL3 to it.

Ok i have a question...

Because im sick of waiting for a fix for this to work with my i7 pc and TTM57sl.
Im going to buy the RANE SIXTY-EIGHT cause it cheaper than buying a Macbook Pro in my country.

Can someone please tell me will i have the same issues that im having now? Also does this mixer work with Video sl.

Thanx

No problems. The mixer works with VIdeo SL.

currently run a mac i7, i had two HP Dual Core Chips, they didnt have many problems - just lil drop outs, that is until both computers developed other issues with vid card buring out and a terrible static/pop noise that was never resolved

No Problems at all....68 or SL3 & midi mixer (djm 800) will work flawlessly!

@bigstress ....thats the problem, some of us [me] just got the sl1 not long ago [less than a year] and wasnt warned about the product not being complient with newer technology....and we are talking about being out $550 + accessories!!! and now i have to turn around and spend $700[sl3] or $2500[68]!!!!! r u effin kidding me!!!! i,ve been robbed!!! there needs to be a trade in ...a recall...a hardware attachment ...a software upgrade...or asio drivers for use on other soundcards!!!!! after all they said its the hardware thats failing.

Quit crying

^ exactly...SL1 came out in 04. Its 2010, why would you buy an old version of something to save 100 bucks instead of buying SL3....

because thats what was available at the time !! there were no sl3 at that time idiots!

now if the sales rep would have informed me that something better where on the horizon for a hundred more that would have changed everything.

Yes there was!!!

@Ljwoolsey...yes there was what? why the short statement or you just trolling trying to be funny? sl3 came out in april 2009 after i had allready purchased the sl1.

I have to go back using old hardware! What an inconvinience!
From what I have read all over RANE really dropped the ball on this one. They say Microsoft is doing this and that but hey they let this one slipped. Won't be long till a very unhappy DJ or individual would be filing a lawsuit. I will be on board with that totally. A lawsuit maybe the only way to get RANE moving along with a solution.

well you said



so you had your sl-1 less than a year, and sl-3 wasnt about less than a year ago? but then you say it was aprill 09 sl-3 came out... hhm your very confused.

anyhow, yes i can see why your pissed. just have to hang out for a fix if you dont want to buy an sl-3.

i just piped up as you was calling peeps idiots!!!

I find it rather funny... Since the dawn of the caveman, both rane and serato have been known for their AMAZING customer service, and supreme quality products. Now another company entirely (intel) releases a shitty USB implementation in their latest chipsets, and all I hear is this lawsuit crap!
Fuck funny, this shit makes me angry!
Ask for help sure, but a lawsuit?? That shit is ridiculous...

We appreciate your patience. This is frustrating for us too. We pride ourselves on working closely with our user base and helping all of you to have the best possible experience using our products. Working with huge companies like Intel and Microsoft to get this solved isn’t much fun. Rane and Serato are working to find a solution to this problem which was caused by Intel’s change to their processors. Getting this squared away is our #1 priority.

I have a thinkpad L512
i5 processor
4G Ram
7200 rpm hd
SL1 (Serato 2.2.1)
Anyone have a similar setup that had any success with a hub or express card-to-USB adapter ? I've already tried the recommended Bios and devece manager changes, still getting dropouts. I tried a belkin F5U234. Supposedly has support for all speeds (1.5,12,480) but didn't work. I might try one from walmart.com (yep it says walmart) that has "a dedicated processor within the hub to service classic speed devices". (Google : multi tt hub).

No good on the hub with "a dedicated processor within the hub to service classic speed devices" (Cabled Unlimited USB-1870). On to the express card, hopefully that works...

Hey guys!

Just tried the solution with the express card with usb ports.
I installed the express card from LogiLink (4 x USB 2.0) and opened Scratch Live and plugged the USB cable of my SL1 to it and it started working just fine without any USB Dropouts or Audio glitches.
Didn't have the time to try it for more than a hour because i'm about to head off to a gig.
I'll be trying it tomorrow for a bit longer, maybe that is the best solution for now.
My Dicers wouldn't work with my SL1 plugged in at once, but with the express card I didn't have that problem as well.

maybe some of you could try it out as well, if you've got a express card slot?

When I setup after I do sound check I put my lappy in2 sleep mode with everything plugged in for Bwt an hour. When I take it outta sleep mode and start spinning it's fine. No USB dropouts or anything. 4 some reason it works great. So until a fix comes along. I guess I'll be doing this..

so i just got back from my gig, and thought i'll try the warm up part with my new laptop with the i5 processor, everything seemed to be working fine, but after a half an hour, suddenly it stopped working and it showed up that the hardware is disconnected.

sadly, it get's better with the xpress card, but still not a solution.

hope that you'll get it it fixed.

hey steve!

yeah, i used the express card and still got short audio drop outs and after a while there was no audio from the hardware, but the hardware seemed to be working, because it showed me that, the sl1 was still connected, i was able to see the overviews, and the software was responding to the movement of the vinyls.
later on the hardware seemed to be disconnected, but after re-plugging the cable it was working again, but i stopped to use it, and switched back to my other laptop.

i forget to mention that at first only one channel was working with the express card, the right one was working, but the left one had no audio, i had to re-plug it in to make it work on both channels, but later on the hardware got disconnected.

While the season is high and I wonder if we Athens a solution for our SL1 or TTm57??

Will it work of I put the latest version of Apples Mac osx on my laptop? I think its snow leopard?

You can't put apples os on a normal laptop. If you have an Apple laptop this issue isfixed for Apple laptops just install scratchlive 2.1.1

Hello all, so I am purchasing a new MacBook Pro - at this time am I right in only buying a refurbished Dual Core 2.8 or 2.9 MacBook Pro?? I currently have SL-1.

I am looking to get close as I can to a trouble free experience. Can anybody help?

Will SL-3 work with the new i series or is it just SL-1 that is having problems?

Thanks!

Thanks Steve, since I do not have any MacBook yet I think I will just sell my SL-1 and purchase SL-3 with the new i-series and I should be all good. Does this sound like the best thing to do? Also I have an NS7 will this be compatible with the i-series? Thanks!!

So i got my new mixer (rane sixty eight) 2 days ago. i was jamming out and all was good the next day came and i played with it again and all was good. I then took it to the club on sat night and set all the equipment up. loaded my track went to play it and nothing. it was like there was no signal going from my cdj to serato... got it home the next morning and away it went but then i started to get usb dropouts. Im not gonna be confident to take it back to the club till im 100% sure its gonna be algud..

You need to start your own help thread as this has nothing todo with this thread. Cheers

Hey guys, we have some new drivers to try out in the 2.2 public beta here: serato.com

We are hoping that we've found a workaround for the Microsoft + Intel bug and so it'd be great to get your feedback on the new drivers!

for those we have an HP. I recently did the HP Support Assistant Updates which included a new SYSTEM BIOs update. I think it fixed the SL1 problem because I ran with it for 2 hours live and no drops.

James, are these the beta drivers that me and a few others have been testing already with Sean?

Yes they are

I just got a MacBook Pro with an i7 as a gift. I normally play on a 57. Any specific version of Scratch Live I should install or avoid?

I'd recommend installing the latest 2.1.1. We found a workaround for i-series macs in 2.1.

Just got a BIOS rolled out by Dell early October and it solved all my issues. I'm using an XPS Studio 1645 (core i7).

I had horrible stuttering and couldn't try to even dj on less than 5ms latency, after this BIOS update though, smooth sailing at 1ms.

I know it is a bit late because the update was out in October, but personally I had given up running Serato on my NEW laptop and went back to my old Core 2 Duo, until I heard there might be fixes in 2.2, well that didn't fix it for me, but the BIOS did, so heads up to any Dell users out there experiencing this, there might be an update for you too!

i had the same bugs like everyone else here. I have a new Sony Vaio S (just two weeks old, high end, Win7 Home edition 64bit, 8gb memory, i7 core etc.) and tried my SL 1 with the Scratch Live 2.1.1. My Laptop has a i7 core and after a short time of using Scratch Live the USB connection droped out. I had to reconnect my SL1 to go on.

Now I tried your Beta 2.2.2 and it seems to work. No drop outs anymore even after 3 to 4 hours. But my latency is set very high (nearly the last postion at the right side). Do i change the latency lower to nearly the left side ( 5ms) it started to drop out sometimes. i didnt had to reconnect my SL1 to go on indeed, but i am confused that my high end laptop is not able to work with a low latency. Every background programs were closed and i just use my laptop for Scratch Live. Could that maybe be a problem because its just the beta???

p.s. i am sorry for my bad english. My level of english is not very well. I hope it is understandable and i tried my best to make less mistakes as possible.

Unfortunately I have to corect myself.
I tried the Beta last night again. The same drop outs and the same procedure. I had to reconnect my SL1 to go on.
Are these problems by the SL3 inteface and i cores too?
Because i consider now to buy the SL3 to avoid the problem.

Purchasing an SL3 would avoid any problems that USB 1.1 devices like the SL1 and TTM57 with some icore chipsets had, or like you said still having.

so....i just bought a 14 inch Toshiba Satelite M645-S4048, 64bit, 4 GB memory, Windows 7 Home Premium OA, with a Intel i5 chip...due to some chick at a club i DJ at accidentally throwing beer on my old laptop and ruining it. so the day after i bought it i had no choice but to take it out and play a booked weekly gig on it with my SL1 box. as soon as i hooked it up i experienced crappy sound.....and then a dropout from hell that in my 4 years using Serato...have never experienced. the next day i read this whole discussion.....was so bummed to find that the only solution to this was to spend $700.00 on a new SL3. after i did i took it home to find..... crappy sound again, and small circles in my scope view. i tried all latency setting and all other settings. im stumped. help please! i have a gig tonight and need to have this figured out!

Did you read the whole thread carefully?
Look what James from Rane wrote a few days ago:
"Hey guys, we have some new drivers to try out in the 2.2 public beta here: serato.com

We are hoping that we've found a workaround for the Microsoft + Intel bug and so it'd be great to get your feedback on the new drivers! "

Try it out, or rent/borrow an SL3 for your gig tonight.

^^guess you didnt read my post carefully....i bought a SL3 box brand new yesterday.
"crappy sound again, and small circles in my scope view. i tried all latency settings and all other settings. im stumped. help please! i have a gig tonight and need to have this figured out!"

I'm sorry DJ Whores, I overlocked that.

Overlooked, I meant to say.

Have you read the manual? Have you read the part where you have to change the dip switches on the SL3 to change from Line to Phone level?

so i can buy the SL3 interface without any doubts?

Go ahead bwoy, the SL3 is a good, rock solid product!

You guys that are actually getting an SL1 or 57sl to work by setting the latency setting all the way to the right, changing usb power settings, messing with your registry... that doesn't mean the prob is fixed. It means you're making sacrifices to get it to work and that is not an end result of a reliable product. Just sayn'.

Sl3 is the only way to go!!!!!

i messed with the dip switches before i posted my first message on here... and after. i still have small circles in scope view. so if im using Technic 1200s & the SL3 box is connected in the line on my mixer... the dip switches should be set on phono or line? cause when its set on "phono" theres no circle in scope view and when on "line" theres small circles. still need help.

If you are using turntables, you set the dip switches to phono.
You connect your SL3 box with the line inputs on your mixer and choose line for the input source on the 2 channels you are using.
You can make the scopes bigger or smaller, in the SL setup. There are sliders.

Jensen: i know all this....and have tried all that.... and still nothing. ive been playing on it out at my weeklys on different set ups and still get the same thing as well. and my guest DJs have to set thier scope view all the way to the top...and the estimate slider all the way to the right...same as my set up to get sound to work. somethin isnt right. i should not have small scope circles smaller than a dime. my percentage fluctuates between 70% and 100% also. wtf?!!!

You need to open your own help thread.

Just wasted XXXXX amounts of minutes out of my life reading this whole thread. In regards to the intel chip set issues? (i3-5)+(ASUS) 4 gig Ram. Just purchased a NS7 and running the latest serato software. (Downloaded today) All runs good for a while then the crackling starts. At least i ain't got no usb drop outs or skope problems! Some ppl suggested getting a Mac pro? But it has intel chip sets as well. For me $$$$ is not a problem. To solve my issues do I simply buy a MAC or dump serato itch for Tractor pro?

HELP!

Well i love scratch live!!! But After reading this entire thread im kinda dissapointed! i was gonna give myself a Hp Envy 17" for christmas......but i fear that it might not work properly even though it completely demolishes my lenovo t61!!! sooo in other words Us SL1 users that have been here from the start will have problems with new laptops .....but anyone with an sl3/68 will be just fine? wow! what a turn off! the last time i checked third party vendors are responsible for third party drivers correct? to be completely honest this sounds like a driver issue! how is it that the i series processors are the ones with the problem when Traktor and virtual dj which are also DVS systems just like serato dont have these problems? i might be an sl1 user.... but i still think that you guys should continue to support us sl1 users and not force us to upgrade our hardware! cause from the looks of it thats exactly what Rane/serato are trying to do! Notice Sl1/57 have problems. Sl3/68 dont have any???? hmmmmmm while i understand that the problem does not persist with everyone there are still more ppl with problems than there are without!

Just a update on my situation. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong section of the forum. My NS7 is running like a dream now. I followed a few tips here in regards to turning things off on my ASUS laptop. I also removed all programs apart from the basic operating system Windows 7 and I-tunes. I also kept all my music files. I set my hard drive to run background programs. In device settings I also turned the USB power management off on all ports. I kind of understand what was going wrong now. it seems that when I turned the bass up or increased the volume on the deck it would sound crackly. To cut a long story short the deck or PC was having power problems in the usb ports. Best piece of info i got from here was posted above on 14th May.
Works for me! Thanks 55 David.

Quote: 55 David.
hey i have i3 chip this is working so far for me let me know if it works for you.
"I got another thing to try has worked ok for today everything is fine would like to know if anyone else could try this and let me know ?
go to BIOS menu by pressing F2 on system startup. After go to advanced tab and ther try turn off SPEEDSTEP and USB emulation. i combined this with previous thing
(go to Device Manager and check USB devices -USB root hub and click on devices. Once device window with details has been opened (properties) please select Power Managment tab and make sure option of Power Save is unchecked.
NOTE:Please do same with all USB devices in Device Manager)
and so far .....so good

The first two devices are usb 1.1 the second two devices are usb 2.0. That is why one group is working well and the other is not.

But we have it fixed on the MAC side and we continue to work with Microsoft on the PC side.

I'm in the market for a new audio interface following some advice on a thread on another Serato forum regarding the bridge and being able to monitor a channel in Ableton before bringing it in to a mix (serato.com).
I've eyed up a few but had concerns with regards to the USB1.1 problems discussed here regarding the SL1 (which I have) and the 57. So far I've found little that discusses other usb 1.1 devices having these problems and everything I look (that makes any sense to me) only mentions the SL1 and 57 devices discussed here.
I appreciate that Rane may be doing more than other companies to try and resolve this but I am concerned that despite stating that this is a MS/intel issue I can't find other usb1.1 audio devices that appear to have the same problems.
Why is it just the Rane hardware that appears to have these issues, and surely if this is the case, doesn't it suggest that the problem lies with the Rane hardware?

To add to this, I've tried Tractor and hate the software, Scratch Live is definitely more user friendly so I would prefer to stick with it. However, are there any deals available on a trade in with the SL1 for an SL3 in the UK that anyone knows about?
Just about to buy a new Windows laptop and don't really want to experience these issues but can't afford to spend outright on a new SL3 as I need to buy myself a new audio interface as well.
Any help appreciated.
Happy New Year!!

There are no trades/upgrades from Rane/Serato like give us your SL1 pay a little amount on top and we will give you an SL3. You'll have to sell your SL1 and buy an SL3 yourself.
Happy New Year!

The i5 -i7 is no longer an issue on mac. I just bought a 15" macbook pro. Never a dropout indicator light. Had it three months.

Can I get some advice please,
I need to get a new laptop and have been using Ableton for years on my desktop PC,
I have shelved my vinyl and bought an SL3 and intend using the laptop to gig running The Bridge within serato.
After reading most of these threads I am confused where my investment should go,
either the Intel I7 quad core or switch over to a macbook pro ??
reliability is paramount any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Bizz

if your gonna gig with it, then a Macbook Pro 09+unibody - if your at home for studio work i think youd make by fine with a new i7 chip/pc setup (and you can always add OSX instead of win7)

I intend to gig with it hence the need for reliability, i will check out some mac book pro specs.
Thanks for the advice

If you can spend $1700 on an operating system. Buy a mac. The SL3 works like a charm with any i7 PC on the market. It's not the SL3 that has an issue with i series processors & their chipsets, it's the SL1 & TTM57. Like I said a few months ago, this thread should be closed because people never read the whole thing.

By the way. The new drivers are working pretty good with the old boxes. Check out the beta versions in the forums.

Hi guys.

This thread looks as if it is causing confusion more than providing help for users looking for answers and has become too unwieldy for diagnostic / troubleshooting benefit.

I'll just make this post the last post for the moment.


The Issue

Some new Windows based laptops with i-Series CPUs have experienced USB dropout/disconnection issues with high-speed USB 1.1 devices.



Who does this affect?

Users running Windows based PCs with i-Series CPUs.

The devices we are concerned with here are the: Rane SL 1 and TTM 57-SL.

These are both low-latency devices that use USB 1.1 protocol. Many other products don't display this problem because they are either (1) not low latency USB 1.1 devices (the heart of the Intel bug), or (2) they are USB 2.0 which Intel properly supports.

This problem does NOT affect the SL 3, or Sixty-Eight.



What if I have a Mac?

We originally encountered similar issues with Mac based i-Series laptops. We worked with Apple to fix this issue, so make sure you have the latest version of Scratch Live and an updated OS X version.

We are still working with Microsoft to resolve this issue on Windows based PCs.



What to do now?

Until we manage to get a solution from Microsoft, we have developed a workaround with a new driver that is available for download with Scratch Live 2.2 from here: serato.com (click).

Make sure you have your SL 1 or TTM 57-SL connected when installing the new software.

We have found that a large number of users are now working fine with these new drivers.



What do I do if I am still having issues?

If this does NOT help resolve your issues, then please start a new online help request here: www.serato.com (click)

In this thread please provide the following information:
• Computer Make
• Computer Model Number
• CPU
• BIOS version (see here: www.ghacks.net)
• A list of all USB devices or other peripherals connected to your computer.
• And a description of your problem.

We will endeavor to help you resolve the issue, as well as aid the continued development process from Microsoft's end.



Warm fuzzies

We have been working very very hard on this issue and will continue to work towards a suitable solution for everyone.

Thanks to everyone for their patience and help with this issue so far.

We understand your frustration and anger - this is totally normal when faced with a situation like this. So we appreciate your patience a lot, it makes the whole process easier and ultimately provides faster results for everyone.

Cheers.
Matt C