That's actually a good point. Was the bridge promised for certain controllers only? Does anyone know?

I said this over here: serato.com

You can see on the the Allen & Heath website www.allen-heath.com it is mentioned that the product is discontinued.

This means that the product is no longer manufactured by Allen & Heath, and therefore no further hardware development will be made by them. As a result, Serato will not continue to support it in Serato DJ.

Your Xone DX will still continue to work with ITCH 2.2.2.

no, and you know that. The memory leak crashes every try to work with bigger Databeases. And now i know why to stop the beta and did a 2.2.2 release with a hammer

I pay 1000€ for Xone DX and now this.
Xone DX + Serato = Epic Fail



Hello TRAKTOR, there I go I walk it. I always defended the mark serato but from today on I will go to defame until not being able more.

Let's see what EU Consumer Protection Laws have to say about that.

You've already checked, right? The DX is still being sold by retailers TODAY. Good luck trying to disappear that legendary "tight integration of hardware and software" so f*kin soon.

Make it a paid upgrade, that would be fair. Obviously A&H are unlikely to be giving you any more bucks now, but do not fuck your customers over. Ever.

The Xone:DX is still supported in the latest version of ITCH and will continue to be so.

Serato DJ is a brand new product and unfortunately the Xone:DX will not be supported in this as it's discontinued sorry.

Sam.

Why you're making problems?

I wish a can play 4 decks with my V7's
i wish a can play with traktor with my V7's

i mean after Itch you Xone users can make so many different choices.
V7's are also expensive players but after Itch there is nothing more for us V7 users

Nephew, what does your V7's have to do with the Xone?

Nothing.

4 deck support was *never* announced or promised for the V7's.

I don't say they promised, i say .. I wish!!!!!!!! And V7 users get no choice in de pas 2 years.

Btw you got Ableton also..........

again......Xone got...Ableton, itch, Traktor..ect, ect

I mean a lot of choice it's not the end of the world for xone users

V7 users got only Itch!

So?

Sorry, but your wishes and issues are off-topic and don't belong into this thread.


Who said so? Check djworx.com

Numark said in their official press release:

Thats exactly what i was saying..................THE PAS 2 YEAR

But in 2013 i'm glad they do something for us

"The pas 2 year" - what the heck does that mean?

You have been getting updates during the whole time.

Pffffffff. you don't get or what????

Yes a lot of update!!!!!!!!!

Btw you'r Xone users got also Scratch Live to control

Again: Scratch Live, traktor, Itch, Ableton!

Again V7, only Itch and ......mwah yeah your right we've got an other choice Virtual DJ!!!!!!!!

donation rather than petition ::)

Sorry, English is not my native language.

But still..

"The pas 2 year" - what the heck does that mean?

Stop complaining about Itch and V7. There has been support for the V7 during all the time. There will be support for the V7 in the future with Serato DJ - for FREE. Now.. stop complaining ;) And please start your own V7 complain thread. Thank you.

does any one know how Traktor compares as I only just purchased my DX and it looks like serato cant be bothered to support it (not sure but being a midi controller thought it would have just meant mapping it)
I thought buying a product that combined two great name in audio like allen & heath and rane I couldn't go wrong maybe i should have saved my money for other things and just bought a numark dj2go

+1

I think he's trying to say that he has a V7 for two years but ITCH has been the only software he was able to use so Xone:DX users should stop complaining as they had the possibility to map it to Traktor, Ableton, VDJ, etc.
I don't think it makes any sense... but whatever.


As a user of a Xone:DX and DN-HC5000 I'd be pissed but on the other hand this is how the combination of software and hardware works. It's the same with Apple and OS X & iOS. Or what about all the people who bought Final Scratch or Digiscratch?
There is no guarantee that any hard- or software will last forever.

The only thing that sucks is 1) the "free for ITCH users" on the website, and 2) the lame discontinued statement as the VCI-300 and NS7/V7 are discontinued too.

This post by forums user Papa Midnight totally makes sense:

But still: I would go friggin' nuts if I had one (both?) of the unsupported devices!

I'm quite bummed by this..so much I have almost given up with Serato.
Xone Dx is a dope controller and the current version of Itch is not going to last in time
as the fx are weak. I really think it is not a cool decision for dedicated Serato users
who have been so patient and had so many promises and to ask them to sit with
an old, not the best version, is not cool. I could undersand if 2.2 was perfect, but it
is obviously not or Itch would move on. Please Serato give Xone Dx support!

Last year i preferred a DX over an S4 so i could use the better integrated, more stable, one click installable (including drivers!), zero configuration, quickly updating Serato software. I've been on Serato's side on every argument with all of the Traktor users in the Tel Avivian night scene, and was very excited about the 'upcoming' Bridge support and future updates.

Serato proved me wrong.

Dear PMs in serato: you must understand that choosing a controller has everything to do with the software it's bundled with. Of course i can MIDI map my controller to anything, but the natively supported software just works better. I Assume the MIDI mapping feature breaks some hardware interfaces and the drivers must be rewritten, and that it's something you dont intend on doing as this is "not your job" as the software vendors, and as the product is no longer supported by A&H, they're not going to do it either. Well let me tell you this: the users don't care. They don't care about whose job is what, and as said in all of the above posts, they were all placing their bets and literally putting their money on Serato.

You proved them all wrong. You disappointed them. Not a single one of them is going to spend hundreds of dollars on nifty new Pioneer hardware, they are all going across the street to the Traktor residence where, apparently, the real party is.

You will lose the hard core of the ITCH controllerists that were beside you since 1.7. Or at least one of them, that i can assure.

Get some sense and write the darn drivers yourself. Pay someone to do it. You will be investing in your future as a company.

Prove me wrong once again. Please.

you cant be shure that the new pioneer will be supported in 2014.....

Serato has now shown the downside of a hardware boundled Software an show us what eberybody expected when the favoured console wie be discontinued.

Not what Google says, plenty of retailers still selling it at a range of prices in UK at least.

EU rules base the degree of ongoing support/warranty you are entitled to receive on the initial cost of the item.

So a cheap ball-pen, not so much protection.

But something that cost over €1000 to begin with? And is locked in to a platform? Hmmm, let's see what they say about that.

Serato DJ will be supporting older/cheaper/less capable controllers than the DX.

The only glimmer of hope is that Serato have repeatedly shown themselves to be totally useless at strategic thinking or proper forward planning, so with a bit of concerted pressure, and maybe some legal threats, it shouldn't be too difficult to get them to see the error of their ways.

Otherwise, they'll never get any more punters to drop any serious cash on their "partnered gear" ever again...simples!

No.

See who has actually got them in stock.

I found one place. A retailer I'd never come across before, so I would doubt even that result.

And, unless it comes out the box and the included software (1.7) doesn't function, all your talk of EU rules is entirely redundant.

Buyers have zero entitlement to ongoing future improvements.

Otherwise companies would not be able to charge for software updates at all, and last time I checked Microsoft aren't offering me a free copy of Windows 8 because I bought a copy of 7 last year.

I can still get updates for that copy of Windows 7, but those are security updates, not feature improvements, so not applicable in this situation.

I already raised the possibility of paying for the update in this case. And it was flatly refused.

To stick with your analogy, it's like Microsoft saying that the next version of Windows will run on all PC's except those made by Sony. That's what sucks.

Sony designed their hardware and licensed the software to be a part of the Windows ecosystem. If they choose to exit the PC business, that design decision is not suddenly invalid. To be kicked out because MS suddenly wants to rewrite the rules midway through the game is not on.

Look at the bigger picture: who will be the next partner to bail? Vestax? Pioneer? Who in their right mind will consider joining a locked-in ecosystem from which you can suddenly be ejected with no recourse.

The correct way to implement that approach is make generic controllers, with vouchers in the box for Serato or NI software, and leave off the heavy branding.

They chose not to do that, hence the anger of an awful lot of people on here.

Ask how's life to Nokia Lumia 900 owners, totally left out from Windows Phone 8 one year after their purchase.

As opposite, Xone:DX owners have seen their devices gaining features on features during the years, totally free of charge.

Products get obsolete sooner or later, try to deal with it. Your DX will continue working and you will continue rocking your crowds even after Serato DJ introduction.

I suppose I should be grateful that it's only taken this long for "djshilla" to appear...

Are you seriously proposing we examine every instance of software licensing ever?

Nokia ≉ Allen & Heath

Cost of Lumia 900 << Cost of Xone:DX

The Windows PC model provides for a reasonable degree of backwards compatibility, on suitable hardware.

The DX specs comfortably exceed those of several units still supported by SDJ.

I was repeatedly promised usable fucking FX by the "Serato team". And you're telling me I can stick with what I've got and suck it up?!?!

So much for math symbols,

should've read "Nokia DOES NOT EQUAL Allen & Heath"

Sorry but i would rather serato spent all there time on the new and current controllers not waste time on controllers that are not made anymore, and if stores still have stock of a controller that is not made anymore just shows that there is no more interest in that product. But again you can still use every version of itch that has been out since the dx was released so it will still work how it did and with the software that made you buy it in the first place!

Both Nokia and A&H had no obligations whatsoever to support the product with software upgrades.

Serato offered several improvements free of charge in these years, unike Nokia. And this is just one out of the countless examples.

No need for name calling, this is a discussion forum and users are entitled to have an opinion.

I

I think you're missing the point.

1.7 was not bug free. 2.2.2 is not bug free. So the product is still not fully functional. The Bridge was promised for Itch users, as well as better effects. Itch users = owners of *any* Itch hardware, incl. A&H+Denon Itch devices. Saying that free updates does not obligate a company to the contract is wrong. If you're advertising it, of course you must make sure you fulfill this. Saying "we will do this, do that in the future" is a selling point and adds to the *current* value, otherwise companies would not mention this.

i would buy 199 $ for an update to SERATO DJ if the Xone would be supported. I think Serato does not expect this. What do you thing about a not free upgrade to bring back the Xone?

Dear Sir,

First of all congratulations with your new child Serato DJ. I think it must be an exciting time to bring out a new product on the market.

As a Allen & Heat Xone:DX owner (bought last month as one of the last exhibition models on sale as new) I cannot join you in this joy as I find out that it will no longer be supported. When I decided to buy this hardware I was convinced in his rugged construction to last for years and in the fact that all future software releases would be compatible with my hardware. As an example of this I was waiting for FLAC support and was very thrilled that this was (luckily) included in the latest version 2.2.2.

As Serato Itch is no longer developed and the new software branch is now called Serato DJ I can easily assume that this "serato DJ" could also be called "serato Itch 3.0". Finding new names for your software is not the hardest part in the development path.

Can you understand that I as a customer feel a little mistreated by this name change as an excuse for no longer being supported? I don't know what went wrong between you and Allen & Heat and in fact, I have no message in knowing this.

I'm very happy with the latest software update as it runs very well for what I need but had hoped on some future improvements and added features. Still one of the main reasons for choosing Serato over Traktor or Virtual DJ was the lifelong support and the free future updates. I can now say to all those who consider buying serato hardware for the same reason that the name of the software will probably change within the next five years and that this will stop all "life long free updates".

The Xone:DX is one of the few products that are discontinued, as Serato DJ has midi mapping possibilities and the Xone:DX is a full midi controller, it must be possible to use both products together.

I hope that you will change your mind and safe you reputation as a hardware and software complete system vendor

My 2 cents....

Mr. Kite

Hahaha that store owner saw you coming, eh?

As I implied earlier, ALL Itch users would do well to hope that Serato does the right thing by the DX owners, as who knows what other funny little tricks they might like to try down the road if they pull this one off.

If the DX had been a cheapo entry level unit, from a less-than-renowned manufacturer, I'd probably say "OK, fair enough, time to move on".

But it was anything but, and changing the rules (by simply changing the name!) is not on.

It's the DX owners today, but who's next for the chop under the new rules eh?

I'm not a DX user, I understand that Serato has provided free software upgrades/support for the DX over the past couple of years, and that their decision is final and there's no changing their minds...

...BUT...

I think this is kind of a low move as well. It seems ESPECIALLY low when several users on here have expressed their willingness to continue to PAY for software upgrades and I'm sure pretty much any and all DX users would be willing to pay for upgrades in the future.

I understand that products reach the end of their lifecycles and that eventually support for them ends. I also realize that Serato is keeping Itch 2.2.2 available for continued support of the product (and applaud them for it), but there's no denying that it still has its fair share of bugs and anyone who remains on Itch 2.2.2 will continue to fall further and further behind the rest of the people who upgrade to Serato DJ/Traktor Pro 2.5+/VDJ 8. For basic DJing, that's no big deal, but for the rest of those who are trying to evolve with the industry, that's pretty huge.

It's very bittersweet. I totally see Serato's position, but I see the users position as well. The fact that this is how Serato is going to treat ALL their Itch/DJ users in the future scares the snot out of me.

The only redeeming aspect of this whole situation is that the DX is a true MIDI controller and can be mapped to and used with other software. Not much consolation to the Itch users out there, but at least it means they could jump ship to Traktor (and who could blame them?) or sell the unit to someone on Ebay with Itch and the option to use the unit with other software.

Dear Serato,

I contacted Allen & Heath for support recently and they didn't say sorry we don't have any parts for it, in fact, they fixed my unit and extended my warranty, So blaming A&H for not producing them is not fair for the owners of the DX and for A&H, A&H did their part by producing the hardware and supporting it. Serato, you are commitment to the ITCH users to support them with Serato software updates for FREE

1- We still have dropouts in the latest version, no its not my laptop because it works fine with my other 2 controllers
2- We don't have the Bridge..you sold us an incomplete product--FALSE adverstising
3- telling your customers to go find another software is NOT a good business practice
4- We request Serato to reconsider the decision of axing the XoneDX from any software updates
5- Give XONEDX owners discount vouchers for them to upgrade controllers so their $1000 Plus investments in the top of the line controller doesn't go to waste-

Shame on Serato if they do NOTHING!

Not true. The Allen & Heath Xone:DX was NEVER advertised at market as being compatible with The Bridge. The Allen & Heath Xone:DX, however, can be mapped to Serato Scratch Live (at much greater levels than almost any other controller previously on the market) where it can be used with The Bridge. This point is moot.


No such thing was ever done.


What's next? You going to go onto Apples forum and request that they give you discount vouchers for you to upgrade your machine? Perhaps Dell? HP? Asus? Acer? Watchwww.youtube.com


Apple does the same with the iPhone. New phone, older users cannot get the latest version. Ask users of the 3GS (there are plenty out there) how they feel about not being able to get iOS 6.

Device manufacturers which license Android have practically made a business model out of this; HTC and Motorola especially.

I don't believe there's a need to touch on Nokia.

So, no, why it might not cost AS MUCH, it's definitely in the same league, and by no means are these cheap devices.


en.wikipedia.org
Legal threats will get you know where.

THIS IS BULL SHIT!

"as promised, all itch users will be able to use serato DJ"

LIES! if this controller didn't cost so much money, i would be fine, but that is NOT THE CASE!

FUCK THIS CONTROLLER AND FUCK THIS BOTH A&H AND SERATO!

FFS, try and choose good examples at least.

Apple have a policy of making new updates applicable for AT LEAST 3 YEARS following new hardware introductions. Hence iPhone 3GS (Summer 09) still gets iOS 6 (Fall 12).

Nice to know at last that there are real people in here (Jam Master Jake) and not just fucking sock puppets, shills and dwarf-tossers.

Well...

That was constructive.



Sorry, that was stated in error. I meant to say 3G. I do admit my errors. My apologies once more.



...and this is not constructive either. Just because someone has a differing opinion and outlook to yourself does not make them a "sock puppet", "shill", etc.

It would be easier to tolerate if the all the shiny happy people could post a copy of the Serato DJ EULA that shows they too are not going to be butt-raped in the very near future, before they attempt to endorse the company's position.

Sorry, but I just realised I'm glad I don't have to share a lifeboat with other Itch users.

This is true. I appreciate the compliment, and I completely sympathize for the DX users out there, but sadly there are people who agree with Serato's decision. They are no more right or wrong than the folks who disagree with Serato's decision. Such is life.

My only issue with comparing this situation to Apple's support of their iOS devices is this: iOS devices are hardware units. Apple generally provides 3 generations of software support for their iOS devices before discontinuing it. Often times this has to do with the fact that the internal HARDWARE of those older iPhones/iPads just isn't up to snuff to run the new iOS updates, or it is MISSING required hardware altogether. Itch Controllers are like that in some regards, but at the end of the day, its simply a MIDI controller that is mapped to run Itch based on its control capabilities. If it's missing a control, then it misses that feature in the software.

At the end of the day, this is a business decision on Serato's part...and none of us outside the company really know what's going on exactly. We sure know what it LOOKS LIKE, but we don't know the whole picture. I feel that Serato could have handled this whole mess a bit more elegantly, but what's done is done. It's time to merely move on to a different product, or accept the hard truth of the situation and stick with Itch 2.2.2.

By the way, not many +1s on this petition so far. If you want DX support you need to have many.

DX ain't missing anything a VCI-300 got. The reverse, however, is far from true.

I'm sure RIM made loads of "good business decisions"...but look at them now, compared to the company that actually stands by it's users and doesn't try to burn them.

I say again, please show me the EULA for Serato DJ that lets y'all sleep so well at night.

Correct, Cerla:

When did everybody just decide to roll over and let themselves get f*ked in the ass?

Did I miss that memo?

Is this global recession so slight I can just nod & shrug as $1500 bucks floats out the window never to return ???

Has your $1500 gear stopped working suddenly after the Serato press release? Probably not.

If you have complaints about 2.2.2 not working as advertised then you're perfectly right and you should stand up for your rights of consumer.

But Serato is no obliged in any way to support discontinued hardware into a brand new software release and you would be dead wrong in stating the opposite.

My 2009 V7s will be updated, but if this wasn't the case I wouldnt complain, as I used them every single weekend, paying back the investment. Stating you got fucked because your old gear won't receive the new upgrade is plain silly, IMHO, because nobody promised you that (in fact you only heard about Serato DJ a few days ago).

You're not complaining because you bought your V7s in 2009 and they're getting upgraded.

I am complaining because I bought my DX in 2010, for more money, and it's not.

Anything wrong with this picture?

Cerla, you've been on these forums from day 1, telling everybody all the time to just chill, you've had priority access to the next version of Itch blah blah, and it's dope, so just sit tight.

You'll forgive me if I finally take this opportunity to set the record straight.

You lie. They lie. Y'all suck.

Let's see them try and sell Itch 2.2.2 for $1.99 if it's so fucking great ;-)))

Itch 2.2.2 is great, actually. Doing a gig with it as I write. 5th gig this week. Not quite sure what you're on about there.

Love how Serato are getting all the stick over this. Do you think if A&H gave a fuck about you, the upgrade path would stop?

They stopped caring in August 2011 when they started the fire sale to clear out their remaining inventory. The writing has been on the wall for the DX for at least a year.

I lie? About what, excuse me? I "suck"?

I tried to give you some context, but I see it's not worth it, you just want your hatred to hit the fan and spread. I'm not disturbing your petition any longer, nor caring about this topic.

You don't use filters then?

A&H, in all probability, regretted ever lending their name to a bunch of chancers who achieved next to fuck all in terms of software development for the subsequent two years.

1.7 --- 2.2.2

Some bugs fixed, other bugs created, some UI changes, and er, what else? Please remind me...

Oh yes, money raked in, on baseless promises.

I already made my point in other threads...

+1 for Xone DX support.

But the best would be a rela petition, like ones on change.org

This one seems to have worked : www.change.org

OK, so who's going to start it?!

Today, not me, it is quite 4am here, so I'll think about getting some sleep ;)

+1

Rescue the DX!

+1
Support the DX for Serato DJ.
And the people don´t have the xone DX get out from this topic.

I don't have a DX but wanted to support you.
I hope you choke on your dumb discontinued controller :p

-1 dont surpport dx and spend that time fixing more bugs

+1

Ont the support. Deliver the promised features. Fix the open bugs. That's what is owede to the loyal users.

For additional features (which were not promised)... Please provide an upgrade path.

Any DX users who are looking for a paid upgrade, Traktor Pro is half the price of the Intro upgrade and works beautifully with the DX.

If you aren't happy with the performance of Itch 2.2.2, I don't honestly know why you're still here. It's not like you have hi-res jog wheels to worry about. Mapping the DX for Traktor is a doddle.

Serkan F... Y.. :p

I Choke lot times on my controller, because was made for professional Djs.
Seems you don´t know what it is.

Professional or not, you shouldn't be putting it in your throat.

It's been discontinued for a while, y'know, parts won't be around much longer.

That's an option... the thing is, Traktor has a very different approach than Serato products.
I understand its success, it is a much better choice for many people, but not all.

To me, the interface for example is a nightmare. Too clutered, too "geeky" would be the word, the opposite of Serato's ones.
I bought this controller for the controller itself, AND for Serato software.
I want a product that is well thinked, and that works straight out-of-the-box, not one I would spend days to set up.

Allen & Heath have their own mappings on their website. Will take you 5 minutes...

You may prefer Serato software but they don't make that for you any more, so time to get to know Traktor. ;-)

I look at it like this..It is more the blame to A&H actually..if they decided to kill the production, then
it more is on their side. If the Xone DX was still in production, Serato DJ would be on board. Bottom line is use Traktor with it..it works wonders!

@seratosnatchthat'

that's my opinion, A&H has said goodbye .....
the horse gets no more new saddle, but the old one is still maintained

Or the old horse goes to the glue factory.

;-)

+1 Please make the upgrade for the XONEDX

So anyway, where/how do I sign this petition?

x2

+1 for Xone DX support.

I'll go ahead & "sign" this just for potentiality's sake...

+1 :)

+1

So, who is going to give my money back, A&H or Serato? Been a Serato user since 2006 roughly. Bought the Xone 3 months ago to find out now that it's now longer supported? That itch is a thing of the past and I can expect no improvements on an already buggy setup?

WTF is happening to the companies that make music gear for their beloved fans to just turn around and say "we got your money and that was all we needed" I just went through the same experience with M-Audio and a $1200 set of studio monitors! Should I now hold Serato in that same regard? Is Serato no better than M-Audio?!

You have the coding to make Serato DJ recognize the hardware. We'll take care of mapping it, just MAKE IT RECOGNIZE THE XONE!

Sounds like you make very bad desitions on buying equipment. Plus your controller works with the software it came with in the box and that you can download from this site. Your dx is not guna magicly stop working.

Is it bad buying decisions or trusting a company like Serato and A&H too much? Both of which have a high regard in the industry.

I completely understand that my equipment will keep working. What I don't understand is investing in a product or company that can so swiftly change direction with no regard to existing customers.

I own and operate 2 successful "retail" businesses and have vowed to never leave a customer without support or customer service, regardless. Those customers keep me in business, they spend their hard earned money with my companies, they deserve to be treated as such. I've spent thousands of dollars with Serato and their partners, I feel I should be treated as such. Unless Serato offers a resolution to this, it will be the last Serato product I own.

The DX was already discontinued 3 months ago. Perhaps you should have a word with the retailer who obviously thought you were a sucker.

Unless of course you got it very cheap, on the basis that you knew it was discontinued, in which case that was the chance you took.

I have some sympathy for anyone who bought a DX prior to the middle of 2011 when A&H started their fire sale.

Anyone who bought after that, you clearly have access to the Internet as you're posting on here, so perhaps you should have put it to better use before buying.

Why are you still here? No one is taking your advice in this thread. No one in this thread wants to use Traktor, at least from what I've read and you seem to be doing nothing more than trolling.

To be honest it's been longer than 3 months, but I didn't think that was the relevant point so I threw it in for good measure. What difference does it make when it was bought? Point being, it's still bought and paid for.

All the difference in the world. If you buy something cheap because it's discontinued, you don't get to complain about it being discontinued.

Says who? YOU?! I'm sorry, I did not realize you were the one in charge here.

I disagree.

There was no information about getting to more upgrades after 2.2.2.

From what I can remember: Better effects and The Bridge have been promised for Itch. No device had been excluded.

Yes, the Xone:DX is discontinued.
But it's still supported (anyone ever tried the A&H support? It's amazing!)

See: xoneforum.allen-heath.com
The latest drivers for OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion do work with the DX.
I know this almost nothing to do with ITCH & Serato DJ and it's not even specific to the Xone:DX but it's worth to take a note :)

Serato DJ Petition for Xone DX Support

+1
read this please
serato.com

The fact that they include the DX in that line up proves they are still supporting it.

Quote from another thread on this forum:
Allen and Heath is still supporting Xone Dx and making new drivers only serato dropping support for dx. Sounds very lame to me.
Words of Al C from A&H :

- new software for XONE:DX was released after production of the hardware ended and this included both firmware and driver updates.
The last firmware update included some minor bug fixes and added functionality.
The last driver release included updates to enable OSX10.8 compatibility.
End Quote


Confirmed, latest driver release date:
XONE_DX_Driver_2.1.8.dmg
Friday, July 27, 2012 3:46 PM

The Xone was discontinued in late 2011 and new driver released in July of 2012. Sounds like solid support to me.

Again A&H is DOING their part, Serato PLEASE DO YOURS!

+1

I have a xone dx, and i love it please make the suport for serato dj

+1

+1 I have always loved the Xone DX, even though itch was never up to par with the controller. C'mon Serato, those fx sections were friggin MADE for the new iZotope fx.

I really don't want to nag, but if this is your loyalty marketing strategy...you guys are not ready for the future.

i got one of the first dx units and have used most weekends, i am not bothered about the lack of support for serato dj, it will be at least 2 to 3 years before it even starts to work ok, by that time ill probaby just be sat at home in my underpants live streaming my set to the club, using some over priced bit of technology and getting paid a faction of the cash that i used to get.

+1 for Xone:DX support ... I dont think that the implementation for the support big effort needs... everybody knows its just midi mapping(another entry in hashtable) seratoguys...why dont you implement midi mapping api/plugin interface so rest can be done by community...BR mxky(MsCompSci)

You are correct, what they are not implementing is Serato DJ to recognize the XONE as an "approved" device or dongle. You could map it.........if you bought ANOTHER piece of hardware that is approved for Serato DJ.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those that is stuck with a crap shoot of a DJ set up. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Oddly enough, I don't have near the same issues with Traktor as I do Itch while using the XONE. So I know it's not my hardware, it's only the software that's causing the issues. And now, no future fixes in sight. Hindsight is 20/20

Serato, you are allowing your reputation to be marred by your greed.

+1 for Xone:DX support

I bought XONE: DX on recommendations from people SERATO.
The sound is really great, but I did not see a better keylock algorithm even after 1.5 years.

And now to be the end?

I agree the software was never 100% solid to this controller by Serato.
So many hopes and promises and patience by the consumer and then this
bomb is dropped on us.
I can understand that Xone is finished, but since it is a Serato controller,
it should still have the key to run Serato software. Serato DJ is like Itch 2.3
with a new name... Why the new name?

+1 for Xone DX support also

I have been a happy Xone DX user since it was released and quite frankly it is the best controller I have used
Great build quality and the feel of the mixer is great which i think is important if you have come from a conventional mixing background

I have also taken part in quite a lot of beta testing for itch and it would be a shame to have to move to NI products just to keep current.

Come on Serato put your toys back in your pram and support the DX, who gives a shit if its discontinued or what the politics behind your decision are.

Think about all the people that have supported Itch through all the rough patches that own a DX when they could have moved to Traktor as soon as the tsi was available

<vent over>

RobC

+1

I've bought a Xone:DX about 7 months ago and I like it alot. Same goes for Itch, I don't have any problems at all.

However, I do feel kind of 'left behind' by Serato now. Although everything is fine I would be expecting upgrades to the software, it might be good for now but things like the new effects would be very welcome.

You can understand, regarding this situation, I'm very reluctant to buy new Serato products in the future. Who knows, software support might be stopped again so quick after purchase.

Please reconsider adding the Xone:DX to the certified controllers.

I have always been into Serato, but honestly feel kind of put off. I feel like Serato is an old friend who now shows its real colors. I have spent many years supporting this company
and even telling others good things about it, even when they were talking Traktor. Now, I feel I have to move over to a new home and start over. Kind of lost the connection.

due to DX support discontinuation? really? I feel the other way around: pleased that Serato keeps supporting free of charge LEGACY controllers like the 300 and V7s.

or due to Bridge vaporware? this actually sucks and needs to be addressed with an open letter at least.

I am in agreement.... The Bridge was a pretty low point. I'd be satisfied with an open letter addressing the issue as opposed to sweeping it under the rug while the forums are ablaze.

Why can't some of these guys have been as amiable as this guy?

serato.com
serato.com
serato.com

I have 2 xone dx controllers, and truly hope that serato will consider supporting the Allen & Heath Xone DX.

+1 for Xone DX support

Petition to include Xone DX in Serato DJ will never happen, unless if A&H wants to include there product. Its A&H call not serato.

Petition on continuing for bug fix for itch, is more feasible.

+100 for Xone DX support!!

+1 for Xone DX support

I don't have a DX and I feel it's unfair for our brethren's using DX not to be included to come with us to the SERATO DJ land.

If Serato discontinues Itch and Allen & Heath discontinues Xone DX then both companies are breaking their promises which were like "Allen & Heath now provide for the future of electronic music performance". If both products used to be the future, what happened to the future? Has the future suddenly disappeared? How could anybody possibly trust any of these two companies anymore?

Currently Serato and Pioneer are offering Serato DJ and Pioneer DDJ SX as the "new" future (like the Xone DX was two years ago). However, according to what just happened with Serato Itch and Xone DX I'm afraid also buying the new Pioneer DDJ SX and moving to Serato DJ is useless - in two years Serato might come up with a new software (e.g. when serato dj and serato scratch might become a new, integrated solution) and Pioneer might discontinue the DDJ SX and then you can trash another set of gear worth a thousand dollar. The worst is that Serato contracts with hardware suppliers allow the suppliers to get away with just discontinuing products already after 2 years.

From an investment perspective it seems best not to trust Serato and related companies anymore. Why haven't you guys made a contract with Allen & Heath which forced them to support the LATEST Serato Software for the next let's say 5-10 years? Customers might now just stop trusting Serato because their investments are not safe.

Investing into Serato related hardware seems to be safe for up to 2 years only. Serato contracts with hardware suppliers seem not to be able protect the customers investments into hardware. But they should!

Considering this, please get in contact with Allen and Heath so that Xone DX will be suported in Serato DJ. Thank you!

phogel, good points and questions you are asking.

just 2 months ago I licensed video plugin for 149$ ...if they dont continue support xone:dx than I expect at least that serato refund it, ...there is no use for me for video plugin if serato forces me to change to different setup due not supporting xone:dx

may be some others faces similar situations too..BR Max

I bet the pioneer unit has already out sold all sales of the allen and heath!!! And the pioneer aint even out yet lol. The allen and heath was a flop only a few thousand was sold and not prob even less than a housand being used.

Thats what happens when you get a product wrong.

What is next?
After a year with my Xone DX, Serato forces me to change the controller.
But, what I buy?
I do not want to spend my money on a controller that maybe in a few years does not have an update.
V7, NS7, DDJ-S1, VCI 300 which is the next controller will not do the update??

You do not sell your ITCH controller .... need it and have fun with it for a long time!
Serato has never promised that Serato DJ works with any controllers.
Serato DJ is not an update, it is a new software.

Quote:
Will work still be done on ITCH ?

ITCH 2.2.2 is the last planned release of ITCH. Future features and any bug fixes for ITCH users will go into Serato DJ rather than ITCH. Serato DJ will be a free upgrade for ITCH customers.

Can I still use ITCH?

You can continue to use and we will continue to support the latest version of ITCH for your controller. Serato DJ controllers such as the DDJ-SX will not be backwards compatible. Serato DJ is a free upgrade for Serato ITCH customers.

Original poster: serato.com

Just curious, can you provide a link or data sheet that shows this information? As a retail business owner myself I would like to analyze it.

As much as I would like to agree, this all seems like a serious case of "buyer beware."

I have no link only that they sold under £5000 allen an heath units to stores which some still hold that stock the pioneer has a limited 10.000 units with the video serato. So i guess that would sum it up lol.

No, that doesn't sum it up. You are purely speculating and have no data to back up your statement.

They are simply limiting sales of the "video" version. Pioneer has the capacity to make well over 50K units per month and far exceed the demand. This is marketing, not supply and demand.

I do have data the dx is discontinued mwaahahahahahah

You seem to be enjoying this. I'm really confused as to your lack of support for fellow DJ's in this matter. Your VESTAX VCI-380 could be next on the chopping block and you seem to want to do nothing more than undermine people that are current Xone DX owners. If Serato gets away with this, we are all at risk of this becoming their new business model.

Not really dx was a dead failed product by many means and was th denon like the rane mp4 all been dropped support. Things happen. Im not hating tho i feel for you. But i would rather serato spent dead product time on making the software better and fixing bugs for popular hardware. Also the dx still works with itch so you havnt totally lost out. But good luck in this compain.

Just received this from Allen & Heath Support:

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for your email and apologies for the delayed reply, we are currently in communication with Serato and I hoped to have a more detailed answer for you.

At this stage it appears highly unlikely that Serato will offer support for the DX, when we have clarification on this will publish an official statement.

In the short term this question might be better put to Serato to see if they will be offering another forms of connectivity with DJ such as general midi which will allow third party devices to interact with their software.


Sounds like both companies are playing the game. Serato...is it possible to allow third party devices to interact with Serato DJ? What would it take for that to happen? Then, A & H can upload a patch for it to work...
Your move Serato.

That conversation between both companies should have taken place months ago.

I would be extremely upset if I hear one day that Serato the Xone: DX will further support in Serato DJ. (And had then sold my best console ever....)

Sold in near future will bring more money and still waiting and pray will possibly bring Serato DJ support?

I can't help but think it's funny that you consider the DX your "best console ever" yet you'd sell it just to get a software update :).

The only way I'm selling mine is if a Xone DX mkII comes out (and then only after it's proven that it's functionally better than the first one); the form factor of the DX guarantees that the only thing I need to get it to fit in a crowded DJ booth is a laptop stand, and that's something a LOT of other controllers with similar features/quality can't do simply because they're so large. Is there really that much that Serato DJ would change on the DX that would make it worthwhile to sell it & start over? Right now (barring the "memory leak" issue which I personally have yet to encounter IRL) the only things I can think of are sample deck sync and extra cue points, as "slip mode" can be simulated by using instant doubles + the xfader & Mitch allows limited external midi control already.

If you think the Pioneer/Vestax/Twitch/(insert Serato DJ supported console here) is a superior unit/major upgrade (which it may be, depending on your needs) then that's different...

please everyone, we are fighting with each other when the real reason we should be here is to prove to Serato and A & H that it is important to work together and do the right thing. We are like a bucket of crabs trying to escape...we all have the right idea, but when any of us make any progress, the others pull us back into the bucket. Let's agree to disagree if we as professionals don't all use the DX. Whatever works for us best is what we use. If we are inconvenienced because a company / companies are not seeing a dollar to be made to update their software or sign some silly agreement, then we should have the right to question their motives. That said, don't sabotage the progress that could be happening. If you don't think that the DX should be updated, then start your own post and quit trying to mark your territory on this one. We are all in this together and are equally vunerable to this happening to whatever we use. Be a part of the solution, not more of the problem. Please...

I'm not fighting anyone; I would like to see the DX get SDJ... but some arguments are better/more effective than others. Threatening to sell your unit (and thus entering the market to purchase a -new- unit) isn't exactly incentive for Serato to update anything ;).

i know this....but unfortunaly Serato will not fix the memory leak in itch (which i've been waiting since last year)

3 ways for me:
1 . sell DX, order (similar form factor, fits in DX case) VCI400 and work with SDJ
2. use DX with itch and get a crash every 15 Min or work uncomfortable with 2-3 Databases.
3. get SDJ support for DX

believe me, my favorite is 3.

And selling a DX will not be easier, when the whole world realize, its discontinued.....

Never crashed my DX using itch...ever. If I crashed every 15 min, I would be on the Traktor site. There are maps there and on the A & H site too. I am a working Mobile DJ, and make money using ITCH. I'm saying this because I hope to continue to be profitable with my equipment as it is. Perhaps your controller or PC is not supporting you as it should. Otherwise, this discussion will be a waste of our time.

The crash are based on a 28k Database. The bug grows up with every 2.x Version. Small Database are very stable in Itch.

I am in contact with Serato and A&H and got the same answer daily: No further support of Xone in Serato DJ. And i ask for a free upgrade when i switch to another (VCI400 same form factor and fitts in case) console whitch come with Serato Intro:



a desperately disappointed fan of Serato

you are not alone

This could depend on how you price and/or market it.

Worst case scenario, assuming that you're mortally opposed to just spending $90 on Traktor and continuing to keep essentially the exact same layout on the "best console ever", keep in mind that (in addition to being a DJ controller) the DX is also a VERY robust soundcard with plenty of ins/outs as well as standard MIDI in/out. The whole thing is MIDI mappable and works as a control surface/audio-midi interface with pretty much any audio program you can throw at it (this includes Logic & Cubase). Its flexibility was one of the reasons I opted to get it over the Twitch.

Itch is a single program from a single company, and just the tip of the iceberg as far as what the DX is capable of. "Discontinued" doesn't mean "useless"; my 2.3ghz Core I5 2011 Macbook Pro is discontinued too, as is my 1997 Powermac 8500/120 that I keep because it runs Retro AS-1, a discontinued softsynth program.

Such a disposable society...

I already own Traktor pro and also VDJ and made very cool midimappings for the DX with VDJ (btw. the script language is great and mightfull) and a mod-mapping for Traktor.
Both programs are lightyears away from my favourite workflow (coming from BPM Studio and droped to Itch).

My decision is made, i will stay to serato and sell my DX. Only in this way i could participade to Serato DJ....

Before you sell your equipment.....

This petition is not quite complete and I will continue to work on it, but I figured it needed to happen to organize.

Please share this with any and all DJs that you can. Get them to stand behind this and Serato will hopefully see the light.

www.change.org

I am looking for the best email to contact Serato Audio Research. CEO's would be best. Any help on this would be appreciated.

I expressed my disappointment about the Xone:DX not being supported in Serato DJ in another thread already. I sold mine last weekend and went shopping: A&H Xone:62, Audio 10, two Kontrol X1s, and one Kontrol F1.

I could have easily bought the Pioneer DDJ-SX for that money, but the disappointment is too big.

Goes to show that Serato will be the big loser in the end.

As an Allen & Heath Xone:DX owner I am quite disappointed at seratos poor handling of this situation, I have yet to read a valid reason for them having to discontinue itch or give us serato DJ. And I would also be skeptical if they did give us serato DJ, after its been discussed so much in this forum, we would probably get software that doesn't work properly (not that itch ever has). And I'm just saying this because serato is in my opinion showing shady business practices. I would like to find out if its even legal, and if we might have a case against both companies

...because that'll get you everywhere...

I tell you what... I challenge you to point out what is illegal and in violation of the law of the U.S., the E.U., Canada, Mexico, Oz, or NZ.

There is no violation of the law here and Serato is not obligated to support the Xone:DX. It is up to Serato to decide whether they support the controller in Serato DJ or not.

This however doesn't mean that dropping the DX is the right thing to do. There are enough people who have bought this controller and thus invested in Serato. The DX is not an old piece of hardware. It was released just 2 years ago and I am sure there are still plenty of them sitting on shelves at retailers. As a company, you have a responsibility to your customers and you cannot just cherry pick along the way dropping controllers when there is an opportunity. The controller being discontinued by the manufacturer doesn't mean not supported. A&H still provides updates, so why doesn't Serato?

Serato went to bed with A&H, they put your name on their hardware, so stick with your customers! The current version of Itch is NOT without issues. This is very bad business practice.

What bugs me the most though is how customer relation is being handled. The tone of some of the post by the company regarding this issue are unbelievable. Suggestions to look for other offerings or some other slightly harsh and poorly worded responses. I am not even getting into all the other issues we had with the software over the years and promises by Serato that were not kept.

After 8 years Serato I am saying goodbye to SSL and Itch. I am not bitter. I just don't want to support a company that shows such poor judgement with how to handle their customer base.

@Reha
you are a well calculated risk. This will not cause any headache in the headoffice from Serato.
But i am with you. Their promises about a new database, which can handle big crate struktures proved as worm words.

Sure! From a business perspective, I am sure they couldn't care less about some of us switching horses, as I could have easily dropped my 2k on Serato supported hardware and never look back to the DX. Just doesn't feel right...

So don't forget to sign!

www.change.org

All I'm saying is it seems odd that a piece of hardware that is only two years old is now practically obsolete, I've owned different equipment thru the years and eventhough there was a new product new firmware was still available for the older ones, maybe not with all the features but still supported

^That's on Vestax ... I don't know why they discontinued it after such a short period but this is not a new thing. Numark and Denon do it often with gear.

Its been more than two years since the dx
Came
Out aint it???

No... it was roughly June 2010 when it first hit store shelves if I'm not mistaken...


Let me know how well that works out with older Android devices...

My iPad 1st gen (2010) is no longer supported by Apple, the most valuable company in the world. A 6 months old Nokia 900 is no longer supported by Microsoft. So, dropping support for the Xone:DX, per se, is not a shocking fact by any stretch of imagination.

Another, totally different point is: does the DX works as advertised with the final ITCH version? If not, that would be a legitimate topic for a petition.

We want THIS AND WE MEAN IT SO DELIVER IT - SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE!!!!!.
WE DIDNOT SPEND ALL OF THAT MONEY ON A HIGH QUALITY (BEST CONTROLLER ON MARKET(REST JUST TOYS) FOR YOU TO THROW EXPENSIVE BOX IN THE WASTE BIN!!!!

THINK OF IT LIKE FOOD ___(WASTE NOT WANT NOT!!!!...

Well...
That escalated quickly...

Um... there's no reason what-so-ever to trash a device that works just fine with the current software available. Waste bin... seriously? Come on...

So you got the dx for tge only reason that They promised serato dj was coming? No you did not you got it for what it did at that time and it still does that prob more if you got one of the earlier ones.

No I bought a product that at the time was top of the range and that I believed was future proof.

I know that we live in an age where technology advances and the standard of hardware changes in the industry. I'm not moaning at the 'future proof' of my controller or a range of other advancements that would make my controller seem out of date.

I appreciate that when serato help promote, license and lend there name to a product that they aren't saying this product will set you up for your whole career.

BUT

for a period of time we have used and braved a product that is not fit for purpose. We have stuck by Serato through the bugs, updates and fixes. Despite using a computer which far exceeded the 'recommended requirements' I have suffered audio dropouts and crashes. Some may ask why I have stuck to this software and hardware. And my answer is that I love using the hardware.

Despite upgrading my computer to a top range macbook pro and using all the guides to help with this audio dropouts still are a risk of me djing. (2x in the last 3 months).

Fair credit to Serato the updates have generally worked but I have stuck through my commitments to them and itch because I was under the impression they would continue to work to make the software perfect.

Some have said that they don't think we should moan about the new features and software that we aren't entitled to. I don't want to upgrade to Serato for these features as I wouldn't use them I want to use a product fit for purpose that I hope Serato dj is that will allow me to play without glitches.

By dropping the support I feel abandoned. I want to get the new pioneer ddj-sx like I know a number of people do but I am for the first time considering using traktor because I know that native instruments are pumping a lot of money into the software to create a perfect experience. I don't say this to stick my middle finger up, throw my toys out or to show my level of dissatisfaction. But I say this to mark that I didn't jump from Serato I feel I am being pushed away.

SO

where do we go from here. There can be a fallout where faithful customers and quality manufacturer go there separate ways OR a good relationship can continue and itch can be further updated/supported.

Again you DX owners need to quit speaking as though Serato makes the hardware. Whereas they do have a huge responsibility with Itch being the primary app, you guys rarely mention Vestax in the equation of these problems. Why can Serato fix bugs for other controllers running Itch but the DX continues to have issues? What's going on under the hood? Those are questions for both companies.

Starting to get some good response on the petition:

www.change.org

Sorry Ragman do you mean Allen and Heath?

I agree that if there are problems under the hood then Allen and Heath and Serato are both to blame.

Although I also have a denon controller that had lots of issues with glitches so don't think that itch is perfect for all users other than DX users.

stop the crying ..... a&h dx has died .... buy a new controller!
everyone needs at least 2 dj controller .... used the dx as backup ....
who has only one controller is not a dj.
the future is serato dj ... past is a&h dx.

Yeah I meant A&H. Thanx for the correction ...

try to talk to A&H if you want to include DX in Serato DJ, because serato is not the one who's going to different companies and asked them if they included their controller to SDJ, its the other way around.

I know its a huge disappointment, but don't root it to serato. Because its A&H decision to not include their hardware to SDJ...

Signed the petition.

Bottom line is, I think this is SHADY business. Lets be real: The only real reason for Serato not supporting are the sales numbers. Imagine Serato stopped support for SL1 and TT57. They won't, cause those products have a huge user base. I do understand that supporting a small group of users are non-profitable, or even a loss for Serato, but thats the risk they took when introducing their business model.

Just because other mobile phone vendors have some poor future proofing for some of their products, don't make it right to drop the DX after about 2 years. Were talking about a unit launched at twice the price of a DDJSX, by a highend company. Basically, A&H is regarded as the European answer to Rane...

I don't own a DX, but I still care about these business moves, as I need to know how long a controller is gonna last me. Never bought into itch, as I had trouble with large libraries, SeratoDJ on the other hand seems to handle them rather well. But if getting a SeratoDJ controller, I really need to know if and for how long Serato plan to support the unit.

I feel for those that purchased the Allen & Heath Xone DX, I was going to buy one when it first dropped. I waited because I wasn't satisfied with the features or lackof, with respect, I'm sure it was filled many peoples for what they wanted.

Ultimately, Serato promised to have the Xone DX work with ITCH and it's my understanding it does work with ITCH all the way up to 2.2.2. If Serato closed it's doors, we all are still able to use the ITCH software. It becomes Serato's prerogative if they choose to no longer support that software.

It's like buying a car and the dealerships are selling their stock for cheap because the new model, completely remodeled and better. The people that bought cheap are no longer happy.

This wasn't going to make everyone happy, I know you guys are upset...heck people that are going to get support and be able to use Serato DJ are complaining that they have to wait too long. So, good luck to you guys...I hope you all decide to stay with Serato for DJing if not, I know you'll be back.

i had a xone dx and thankfully sold it just before all this shit hit the fan. i was sick and tired of false promises for the bridge and bout an S4 - i actally traded my xone in for a vci 380 as a secondary.
im totally on the side of those who are affected by the dropping of support for the xone as i just scraped out of this by the skin of my teeth without knowing.

i also think those comparing to mobile phone sales and saying g"get on with it" buy a new controller etc are fucking stupid and should really think what they are saying before opening their fucking mouths (or fingers) . so there. had my say. shame on you serato & a&h both.

sorry few typos , but i was on the ipad in bed. an ipad 2 that is and unlike others i wont be trying to compare this to a 3 being obsolete etc. the xone after 2 years , with its little shiny serato endorsed badge should NOT be obsolete now. i would be fuming if i still had mine. thankfully i dont. but i do feel for all those who do.

Enjoying iOS 6 on that iPad 2? Which is still a current model? Good.

Because you wouldn't be if you had a first gen iPad. Which came out around the same time as the DX, funnily enough.

to be honest i havent and dont intend updating to ios 6 anyway. heh. :) - really. its working for me as it is. if it aint broke dont fix it. wish i could say the same for the xone dx.

some of you comparing apple with pears...desktop tech is conventional technology exist since 80's, you buy software and you use >3years..mobile tech is very young and exist under different circumstances and may be limited to <3 years...I am not starting to talk about planned obsolescence this might to be overextended.....think first before u move(shaolin)

There is no difference whatsoever between a 2010 discontinued&unsupported iPad 1 and a 2010 discontinued&unsupported Xone:DX. You were *NOT* promised life long support for neither products.

And once again:

Promising a feature is like advertising with it, because people will read about the promise and base their buying decision considering that promise.

No better effects yet. No Bridge yet.

Indeed, Bridge was promised and that's a very legitimate case for a petition or class action. Better fx were never advertised

But this has nothing to do with Serato DJ and the Xone :DX

It has. You acknowledged it...

You asked:

ever heard about associating, correlating or may be transfer performance??

It's got nothing to do with this petition, as Serato DJ doesn't include Bridge.

That's true. There is a slim chance that SDJ will support The Bridge - compared to the probability of 0% of Itch getting TB support ;)

AFAI remember mods have confirmed that better effects are in the works. I might be wrong though.

As far as I remember, mods aknowledged the FX issues, but never promised an overhaul, and for sure Serato never advertised that. BTW you're right about the slim chance but until it materializes, those are totally split topics, IMHO.

Apple spent millions if not BILLIONS on development and REFINEMENT of iOS5. Those that are stuck with iOS5 don't have much to complain about their obsolete device. iOS5 was "perfected" by the time iOS6 came out.

ITCH on the other hand is an absolute train wreck. (should have heard the mid gig glitch that I had two weekends ago) I never had the same issues with SSL1.

Doesn't ALL Scratch Live hardware work with EVERY version of Scratch Live?

This is a thread about petitioning Serato to finish what they started. It's not a thread about debating if they should. You are truly comparing apples and hedge apples. If you want to debate whether ITCH is a good product, I would recommend starting a new thread. There is a lot of pissed of people here and you are failing to change their mind.

I'm not voting Obama today and If this doesn't change, certainly won't vote Serato tomorrow. Shame on them the first time, shame on me the second. I won't make the same mistake twice with either.

Oh yea, don't forget to sign!

www.change.org

You guys may as well be arguing over who is the most talented Spice Girl. This isn't apple. This is Serato and Allen & Heath. Move on.

Hilarious. So if iOS 5 is perfect, why does iOS 6 exist at all then?

(facepalm)

I'm not going to answer this.

i could not agree more!

signed :)

Actually I will.

Why did they release iOS6? Progression.

Apple continues to update iOS 6, 5, 4, AND 3 with security and bug fixes along with updating OS X 10.7, .6, .5, AND .4 with security and bug fixes. You won't see new features added to older operating systems, but they are certainly managing their existing customer base.

Please make sure you have an understanding of what you are posting about before trying to undermine me with what you think is humorous.

Can we stay on topic please?

www.change.org

That's exactly my point.

i think what a lot of people are forgetting here is there fact that the xone dx was one of the most expensive controllers for any software that has ever been brought out onto the market - a lot of people including me made this investmnet when the controller was at a premium price - and despite the few that have not had many major issues, i can wholehartedley say that i had issues from the day i bought it to the day i sold it.

this was on both PC AND Mac unibody core i7.

i think that the dropping of this is shameful on both companies comcerned and they should come to some agreement with regards to supporting the current userbase.

it is inconsequential that the xone can control other software via midi, and the other points raised - people bought this in the main to use with seratos digital offering - regardless of what the software has been "rebranded" with the promise of lifetime support NOT when they chose to rebrand their digital only offering in the form of Itch-
It is the user that has parted with their money that suffers here. The people saying that you can use this that, comparing to apple, or whatever are talking out of their rectums.

just glad i replaced mine with a VCI 380 but unlike some of the others on here - im not gloating about that fact.

Sounds like Allen & Heath are ready and willing.

oh and just to point out that this also renders the already crap resale of a xone dx - after the drop in price to nearly half the origional sale price - to next to nothing. personally i wouldnt spend £50 on a second hand one to use as a doorstop.

and sadly i guess those of us who spent £1000 plus 24 months ago or less will find this as well.

it would also be highly interesting to find out just how many xone dx units were sold and shipped worldwide!

OSX - Correct

iOS - Nope.

I'm currently listening to music on my old iPhone 3G. (Still available to buy in 2010). With iOS 4.2.1. No updates for that for nearly 2 years, despite there being a massive known security flaw in the wifi.

OSX 10.6 keeps getting security updates, but no bug fixes, and no new features.

I stand corrected. My apologies.

No. Support for the Rane MP4 mixer was dropped as of Scratch Live 2.0.

Damn, I stand corrected again.

The Judge (Dredd) tends to do that :P

WILL PEOPLE STOP THE FUCK GOING ON ABOUT IPHONES HERE!! its boring and off topic. Yeah i was shouting - but pull your fucking braces up or head over to Apple.com. for FUCKS SAKE!!!!

Or Mac or iOs in general. Fuck me - on the Spice Girl side - go for the Ginger one - or the one with most monet. Who Cares? Asus or Sony? Dont give a shit. This is about A&H and Serato. And what you lot seem to have overlooked is that no one from Serato - on THEIR forum has responded recently.

Bit crap really as this is indexable by Google & Co. How I came across this.
Time for a Serato response i feel.
Stop, please stop all the crap similies, the question at hand is the lack of support for future versions of Itch / DJ or whatever you want to call it.

There is no point compairing this, to that, and that to this - its about 2 things - Xone DX and Serato. Thats that. End of. Get with the programme geezers. Jeezus!!!!!#

Why? You tell me how the situation is not the same and I'll personally not mention them again in this conversation.


They have no onus upon which to do so, and are free to choose whether or not to do so per their own discretion. By the way...



...try again.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go ponder a usage my old Motorola phone which will never see an OFFICIAL release higher than Android 2.1 (CyanogenMod 7 is too unstable on it).

sighs - slaps face and walks out of room. see ya!

Cerla, this is where you´re dead wrong IMO. The difference between the two is HUGE.
On one hand we had the ipad launched in the cellular market starting at $499,-
Lauched by a company known for "disposable" products (ipod shuffle, ipod nano).

On the other hand we had Allen & Heath launching a 24 bit 96k, 20 channel USB sound card, analog input for channels, balanced outputs, all coming in at $1,799,-
At launch A&H was a company known for their long lasting, high quality DJ products, hardly not disposables.

Anyone who´d say: "There is no difference whatsoever between a iPad 1 and a Xone:DX" at the time of launch would be considered a clown and bashed, in any dj store, or on this actual forum. Come om man, you know this.

Personally, I believe the DX never sold well, mainly because of the pricing. Sure the jogs arent the best, but all in all, I think its a nice piece of hardware. I never bought one myself, but tell you what, if it was supported in Serato DJ, I would have considered it among others for lightweight travel.

Supporting the product for only 2 years, is probably not what Serato planned when it was released, and a SHADY business move IMO. My sympathies for the DX owners...

Sure about that? Quote from Zach S @ Rane:

So basically the mp4 being launched in 2007? had a lot "softer fall" compared to the DX...

I don't think the three MP 4 users have been promised anything anyway ;) that's a different story with the Xone users.

Support was dropped as of 2.0. Maybe newer versions work but they're not supported.

No, there is no difference whatsoever. The fact that the Xone DX was largely overpriced at launch doesn't change the logic of the comparison.

Again, if you're not satisfied with the DX performance on the latest software, and I'm talking BUGS, you're perfectly right in complaining about lack of further support. And I would wholeheartedly support such stance.

I'm still amazed that Serato will support other legacy controllers such as the VCI-300, though. So much for the "shady" Serato!

Itch fails on larger DB's, esp on Windows.

2.2.2 fails on osx retina mountain lion too

Now that's a fair point. But how many DX users have huge databases? And the bigger question: why Serato decided to skip SDJ for the DX? If it was that simple to implement why expose themselves to a PR backlash?

I don't mean huge.. I mean big ;)


... The bigger question is irrelevant for customers. Discontinuing support for a device which is about 2 years old is does not draw a nice future for upcoming (and existing) products from Serato (and their hardware partners).

Unless of course the issue is the DX hardware.

Price is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The question is




Xone DX is still being supported by A&H with minor hardware changes.
Serato has chosen not to move on with ITCH software and ultimately they can choose what hardware will work with THEIR software such as

For those that hate the comparisons...sorry but, Honda no longer makes factory parts for my car, I accept it and move on...I can complain but, it won't make a difference.
Having a petition can't hurt and only takes a few seconds to sign it, I hope it works out for you guys. I know that the Xone DX is a nice piece of hardware and yes it would be ideal for weddings gigs and such.

Good luck to all you Xone DX owners.

First of all, I don't own a DX. I NEVER bought into Itch because I had a lot of trouble with my large music library. Loaded fine in SSL, Itch would not even start. (OSX 10.5 and 10.6)

Now please understand this: I never said that Serato is shady, but I did say they've done a shady business move. And I stand by that. If the DX was recalled due to hardware error I would understand, but in fact I never heard of any major hardware errors on the unit.

This is what it boils down to for my part: Im about to invest in a controller, but I want to make sure it will last me more than 2 years. This issue right here is making me trust Serato less than I once did.

I guess this is most users main issue.

Dood I'm with you on a lot of what you're are saying and I believe the petition is a good move, but the statement above is very faulty. The unit is not going to self-destruct because it can't run with SDJ. As long as there are copies of Itch versions available, the unit is usable (bugs withstanding). How long it last will be dependent on how well it's taken care and has nothing to do with the next new major version upgrade for the app. My problem with Serato is not being upfront with their consumer base about why they really didn't want to bring the DX along with the other Itch controllers to SDJ. I really believe Serato is not a shady company who just does these types of things to piss off particular customers, and there really is a logical explanation for this. To me Serato's biggest problem is and has always been they're lack of [QUALITY] communication with their user base concerning these types of situations. I mean if they feel they do not owe us any explanations on why they do what they do, they need to really kill this forum because it's becoming counter-intuitive for it's real purpose.

So my statement to the Serato powers-that-be is: please squash this now and post a true and sincere reason the A&H XONE DX is not being carried over to SDJ. The last statements made by the moderators were apparently shot down by Vestax so we're still in this holding pattern that is just adding fuel to the fire. If you refuse to reply then customers like WARPNOTE has every reason to call your practices SHADY.

This...

Let me add, Ive always felt that Serato has been pretty straight forward in the past when communicating, whether the issue was bug reports, feature requests etc. This especially concerning SSL.

I don't mean to say that Serato is a shady company, far from it. But this move, does comes across as shady. Again as I said, I'm in the market for a controller, and Id rather buy a more expensive one that will last me at least 5 years down the line, than jumping on some disposable crap. So basically just wanna be future proof. When stuff like this happens I'm less confident in buying... Simple as that...

Serato has it's history of bad communications when it comes to Itch. The Bridge, Video, MIDI, V7 ability to use 4 decks/1 laptop/1 mixer etc. were all poorly communicated. The things I mentioned were hot topics driving product sales.

Again, saying "disposable" is misleading. I think limited scalability is more in line with what's going on with the DX. I don't think DJs will throw a DX in the trash because they can't use it with SDJ.

Company name corrected above ... sheeesh!

I do not really understand why Serato has turned off they key to The DX. Even if it is discontinued, it seems a harsh move to devoted Itch users. Some have worked with it since the beta 1, and now will be off in the dark.

Before our tantrums and wails become the reason the world ends in December, let's again highlight the obvious:

Serato and Allen & Heath have broken up. Check their facebook status...it probably says "It's complicated".

Allen & Heath is still supporting the Xone DX, but it is discontinued.

Serato is no longer supporting ITCH after its last update, which doesn't really work well anyway.

Many of us Xone DX users, as well as concerned controllerists and SSL users are attempting to question Serato's lack of communication with its loyal customers trying to get an answer as to why this move was done by Serato.

We've successfully pissed off a couple of Serato peeps.

Oh...and Honda stopped making parts for one of the Spice Girls while her OS wasn't getting updates...

I sign this petition serato please provide support for the Serato DJ Product there are no exuses A&H continues to support this product with driver updates and firmware and it clearly states on their website that they will keep this up they just aren't manufacturing them anylonger


For all my friends who own this paper weight please don't bother with Traktor the GUI is completely fked and latency is a prob not only that but searching your DB is a nightmare your best bet is VDJ and actually I've read some threads over there that look promising tword official support for the DX controller even though it is discontinued.. Now what does that say about VDJ my Friends? I know you know because its something Serato used to stand for and Built it's reputation on ..

Anyhow Traktor sync is Awesome! effects there are pretty cool too but you pay for it because it's clunky and hard to work with I've had latency issues and some glitchy starts a lil hang here n there also ...

VDJ Sync is also world class and in my opinion better than Traktors VDJ will Lock right on the beat no need to babysit the way you do on Traktor although to be honest I didnt go through the trouble of re anylizing my library on Traktor the way they recomend so that could be my bad also as everyone knows syncing Vocal Acapellas can be a NIGHTMARE
This is really where VDJ Shines! It is effortless in this Program Load sync and mix

Not only that but it even has on board key detection and BPM detection I actually own Mixed in key and I can tell you VDJ does a Better and Quicker Job on this than theMIK
without having to be connected to the internet or whatever other BS

If you buy VDJ defo also subscribe to their music service its cheap and fast and provides you with ALLLL the music that doesn't fit on your 2TB drive I havent tried this just yet but I'm pretty sure I can mix a whole set just with their music libraries you do need an internet connection to use that though but my Verizon 4G handles it easily ..

Sorry to say though that the Effects on VDJ are pretty much on par with Itch so you won't get the Flash an Pa zaz like in Traktor or apparently Serato DJ but you aren't any worse off than you are now either ...

One last thing Key Lock on VDJ is Pretty Spot on in the Mix although in some ways better than Traktors there are somethings worse..

My favorite way to use Itch and VDJ is to hookup my SL2 box use 2 inputs on my DX as thru inputs it gives me all the fx and eq of Itch working on those channels plus timecode scratch capabilities and all the goodies in VDJ also you can map all the search functions to VDJ for scrolling and loading tracks to your decks and you get an extra couple of decks you can use in itch so Six deck mixing is possible the only thing Im missing is a Master clock wich I havent mastered yet I wish there was some way you could slave Serato itch to VDJ's Master clock then everything would be perfect

^ Those last two posts must be pregnant 'cause they're definitely missing their periods...

;)

You guys say itch is unuseable with large databases well guess what seems the issue is still in Serato DJ. as ppl are moaning they get out of memory crash when loading up Serato DJ. It also does not have the bridge so guess you got nothing to gain!

Serato will work on fixing the database issues, so this is definitely something which will be improved in the future.

SERATO DJ has the same problem basicly. I still wait for support / help.
serato.com

seems that people who too often ask for continued DX Support are written to a blacklist and totally ignored.

" seems that people who too often ask for continued DX Support are written to a blacklist and totally ignored."

You should back up your statement before you make such claims.

So, you're confirming the fact that you choose to drop support for products with low sales numbers... I know, you're working for money, not glory, but given the amount of time needed to adapt the interfacing / driver part of the Serato DJ software, you could "waste" a little money and do it.
This would prove you CARE about your customers, not only about money, and you should know that this is what make people stay with you on the long run...

As said before, I purchased 4 Serato products, worth 3500€ total. I'm tempted by the shiny new Pioneer, but I'm thinking about it, and by the consideration you give to your customers, now that you are part of the first league. And be assured that I inform everyone I know who wants to purchase some Serato gear of it.

I'm sure the Pioneer won't have this kind of treatment, the sales are probably already superior to the DX... I may buy it in the end... but it won't be because of the love I had for Serato's commitment as they were launching SSL and the Rane SL1.

Right know, I feel quite disgusted by your behavior. Hope you will eventually think about it, and get back to this state-of-mind that made you.

As for all people who are here just to say "Serato is right" with some completely silly arguments... just open your own thread for that and stop bothering. I'm just hoping you encounter the same misfortune one day.

One final thought : Just think about people who dropped 1800$ on your product, thinking they made a great investment, buying a controller and software from two renowned companies... Do you think 1800$ is nothing ?? How many time does it get to save this amount ??

Like I said : just disgusting. Petition signed.

+1

...because wishing misfortune upon others will get you far in having your argument recognized as credible and is most certain to attract sympathy to your position...

Co-sign

... you forgot to open new thread. Good Luck !

No bad juju. Just be a good member and be a part of the solution. Sometimes I think that the admin at Serato wait until the initial message becomes clouded with another digression before adding their 2 cents. serato, is there anyone out there that can at least tell us that you are pointed in the direction of a amicable solution for the Xone users that still wish to use Serato?

Serato was built from the ground up by their customer base no Big Fancy ads like today no
Sponored this or that. The Serato of today is a Hype machine not a Software company I wouldn't be surprised if they're Advert budget were higher than the one used for development

Dj Serventi is right we deserve an amicable solution but as many of us already seem to understand BIG "S" has already turned a cold shoulder to us.

The only thing more shocking to me is the attacks we face by other forum users over the subject it Seems that they are more loyal to BIG "S" than to their own Brothers .

I don't speak up because I wish Ill on anyone but simply because I care I love Serato and
this community but when I see people unfairly treated and pushed around it makes me sick
and the people that cause this harm disgust me.

I know that if Serato would come halfway with an agreement to provide an Upgrade path
that if there was more work to be done by A&H that Serato users would spend their energy
Fighting A&H to get this done it's a Bad Day when a company recomends another companies
product to their own.

I for one am tired of these rants and I'm sure my time could be more productivly spent.
but here we are...
\

Thats is NOT my experince, my 60k library actually loads faster in SDJ than SSL.
This on a non unibody mac 2,4ghz intel core 2 duo. Itch wont even run the library on this machine, just hang forever on startup.

Pleased with the new software, hoping for a bright future for SDJ.

faster load and open/close the crates without delay is totally true!

60k tracke alone does not bring any crashes. It depends to the amount of tracks/amount of crates/ amount of tracks in each crate and so on.

Serato and Itch never crashes, wehen totally used RAM <1 GB. Every Crash in my case comes only when the by Serato used RAM grows up >1.1 GB

" 60k tracke alone does not bring any crashes. It depends to the amount of tracks/amount of crates/ amount of tracks in each crate and so on."

That's my experience too.

I know, I trimmed down my crate count to about 250 crates, and about 90 smart crates.
But there is no chance in h... of running itch on this machine.

www.change.org

As long as the Manufacturer pays the license there product will be supported that's all there is......
Vestax and Numark if ever in the future discontinue there products that's it.......Like the DX.

In the end DX owners best bet if SERATO let you guys pay for an upgrade for Serato Dj.

2.2.2 is buggy and the site says that all bug fixes will go into DJ wtf??

www.change.org

Only way to get anything done at this point. Serato has now gone silent for the last few weeks on the issue.

Don't forget to sign.

we have a dj in our salsa club... he works since 2 years with MBP and dx. he told me, no bugs, no problems 2-3 nights each week. no issue.. no bugs ???

65 Signatures and growing! Pass this around like good spliff to all your DJ buddies, facebook, twitter, etc. The more who sign, the more Serato will hear us.

www.change.org

You should really try to promote it more and try to reach the A+H Xone users outside this forum. I hate to say it, but 70 signups in 20 days - that's not a lot.

I've been posting it on Serato facebook, Xone DX facebook and any other place I think it's relevant. I'm doing what I can here, but I'm limited by time with running 2 full time businesses.

I keep posting here to bump the thread. I'm open to suggestions anyone may have to help this thing along.

Serato hearing you is not enough... You should include A&H as well.. im just saying..

Hi,

I contacted DjTechtools to see if they could make this behavior a little more public... and they did.
A huge thanks to them.
Here's the link :www.djtechtools.com
Unfortunately, some others websites were not so eager to do so :/
I find it really sad to have to be so hateful toward a brand I used to LOVE and recommend to anyone.

How about those Denon owners?

Home, why isn't the article available/linked from the main page?

Huge thank you for this. We've already seen an uptick in signatures since this article has launched. Need more like it! Well done.

FYI, Traktor Pro 2 is going for 50% off through November 26th.......just saying.

I was considering posting that here but didn't want to detract from the cause... lol.

I'm strongly considering it, especially since I just discovered that you can internally route TP2's audio through a 3rd-party app like Jack OSX directly into your DAW of choice (GREAT for production purposes). None of the Serato offerings have this functionality that I know of...

Or sync Ableton to it... No Bridge required.

Whatever happens with Serato support for the DX, any owner who doesn't buy Traktor at that ridiculous sale price must be high or drunk.

All things considered, that's the only reason I posted it. Serato has proven their point that we are dispensable as customers.

Lets go make an petition to native instruments to make to support xone dx and to make a good mapping. Compliments

There are plenty of mappings already available... www.traktorbible.com

If you read the full text, you see the date of post: Rainer G. Haselier, March 2010. Doesn´t work for traktor 2.6. If someone make an petition i appreciate. I don´t make myself because my bad english. Sorry for that.

Ahh, gotcha. I was just planning on using one of those existing templates as a starting point and mapping any new/missing features I want to use myself via my Korg Padkontrol or Novation Remote ZeroSL (since Traktor allows that sort of thing).

The mappings for traktor I use are from A&H but I simply don't enjoy the NI product

www.allen-heath.com

The mapping for traktor 2 is available there

no need for a petition unlike Big S who is willing to give up a few users A&H is on top of things.

I couldn't agree more. A lot of people here think we should include A&H and I just don't see it.

Bump on the petition:

www.change.org

I received my Xone:92 and Audio 10 today. Not sure why Traktor gets some negative feedback here, but with my two Kontrol X1s, its a pleasure to work with. Very happy that I sold my DX and made the move.

This being said, I have seen the DDJ-SX the other day, and I believe it is a nice controller. Haven't had too much time to play with it, but I liked it. A bit too bulky - unlike the DX or my current Traktor setup - but given the right case/bag, I'm sure it's a winner.

I'm not a DX user, I'm a NS6 user but I still signed. Personally, I feel this is a bad move or a "shady" one at the least. I can easily just sit here and not care for the DX users seeing that the NS6 will be supported in SDJ and I have nothing to worry about YET, but if it were me receiving the palm in the face by Serato and or numark, having spent the money I did on the piece of hardware, I'd be really pissed off...therefore, I'm helping out with a signature.
Good luck you guys, I hope you can guys can soon spin in SDJ with the rest of us after spring.

Annnnnnnnnnnd that's why the petition is meaningless.

For all anybody knows, there are only actually five DX owners who've signed it.

Every registered DX user sending the same boilerplate email to Serato directly would have been FAR more effective.

(Quote fail)

I disagree. Serato has a lot of customers, all whom should be concerned about planned obsolescence and signing the petition voices that.

Eh... For "a lot" of customers, 85 signatures out of a desired 500 - many of whom apparently don't even own a DX is a very low response rate. For as much of a brouhaha as has been on display, you would think that more of a response would be garnered. It barely moved even after the DJ Tech Tools article was made.

I'm sorry, but from what has been on display, you have a vocal minority pushing themselves as the disenfranchised majority.

Good luck with support. I feel for you all but, I would bet the bank it's NEVER going to happen. Things happen for whatever reason, usually this is a money reason. The ALMIGHTY dollar speaks volumes and the DX was put on the chopping block unfortunately. and yes 85 signatures is absolutely zero in the grand scheme of money. If 85 people no longer support Serato and buy a different software it won't dent them at all. It would cost them more to port the software over to the DX then it would be for you to buy from a different software company.

I am one of the lucky ones that owns controllers that will be able to use Serato DJ but, I think I will keep the NS7 running on ITCH while my DDJ-SX runs Serato DJ.

I'm don't know all the problems with the DX running with all the different versions of ITCH but, if you have a problem with it you can most certainly run Traktor with it quite successfully according to REHA



Again sorry for the bad luck.

The other 415 DX owners needed are probably either already using Traktor (as Serato suggested) or are happy enough with Itch (or both). Most of the "bugs" that I hear of in Itch are rather esoteric and totally avoidable with what I consider reasonable compromises (i.e. limiting library size, avoiding certain file types, etc.); the fact that some of these issues also persist in SDJ only weakens the argument for a port further.

I'm hypothesizing that somewhere in here the same dynamic that compels some people buy new versions of the latest mac products every year is at work...

you guys that are just bringing down the hopes of the DX users will feel sorry when your controller is dropped from future updates on SDJ. This should be a concern to all of you who will eventually get left out of the loop if this continues to happen.

Oh well, people will think what they want

I agree...





It WILL NOT happen to me because I won't complain. I will take what I have and use it or buy the next system.

Whereas I can sympathize with the DX owners (& I did sign the petition), I can honestly say that if the V7 wasn't on the SDJ list I wouldn't have been upset at all. I guess I'm more into the way the V7 emulates turntables then what latest features are being added to the software. Hell once Serato added the sample banks I was satisfied, and even if they were not added it wouldn't have been a deal breakers for me. But I do understand that the average DX DJ is probably an EDM type DJ whereas the average V7 DJ is more concerned with scratching and t/t emulation.

Great job Papa Midnight! Get this to the masses! On a side note, this is also a good way to educate those who already use Traktor, as Traktor is a big part of Ean and Tech tools too. If Traktor was smart, they would showcase how they would support DX users more than they have been by Serato...Sorry Serato, but I am getting sick of waiting for no answer...

I think Serato not porting Serato DJ over to the DX is their answer.

Sorry, dude. I think you're praising the wrong person.



Serato has provided the exact same answer more times than I can count. Because it has been discontinued, it will not be officially supported in Serato DJ.



That's just it, how many of those signatures are actually DX owners? It's been established that a significant number of the signatures garnered don't even own a DX.



I gotta admit, I was disappointed when I found that ITCH did not have the SP-6. At the time, I was using an app for android called Electrum Drum Machine which had 8 sample banks. I actually lost two sample banks by using SP-6 when ITCH 2.0 hit :P

Where did you get this information?

Read this entire thread. For that matter, read some of the replies on the petition itself.

I also cannot help but notice that it has gotten rather quiet...

+1 for Xone:DX support

DX is one damn fine piece of hardware. We Require Serato DJ!

+ 1 for DX support! Signed the petition too.

The reason Serato have only stopped supporting the DX because it's been discontinued is due to the fact they will not be getting any more money from sales of the product. They don't care about the people that have paid top dollar to invest in a top of the range controller with what we were told is top of the range software. Now they have our money, they stop supporting it.

If A&H had another Serato controller we would still see the partnership and would still be supported. This shows Serato cares only about the money coming in and not about current users that have already paid their money.

I stuck with Itch because i thought it was a work in progress. The bugs would be fixed, the beat grid issues would get better, the effects would improve. I thought i was investing in a company that was going to improve and develop. Now they dump me cause they don't actually care about their users. They want me to stay on a buggy software release and won't fix it.

It would be very easy for Serato to map the DX to SDJ. It would be even easier to allow custom mapping and let the community do it themselves. But they refuse. Why?

I love Serato, i used Scratch and then Itch. Since i love my DX and won't be forking out on another controller that won't be as good, i'll just use Traktor instead.

Goodbye Serato! I loved you but it's obvious you don't love me back....

www.change.org

Come on Serato, it's Christmas time. We'll even buy our own $199 present!

I would buy it for $199 if they release it for the DX!

Serato relies so heavily on DJs like us promoting their software, especially since the market is so Traktor dominated. I've spoken very highly of Serato everywhere i go but with this i'm so annoyed i won't be doing that any more.

What's the point when they just change the name of software to pretend it's something else and leave you behind. NI would never ever do that!

It is always a vocal minority who sticks up for most peoples rights it's historical fact.


All serato users should be concered because Serato has Tarnished it's own reputation in an attempt to stay relevant.



Any who is still here and supporting should be proud of themselves for having the resolution to keep up the fight and being proactive against injustice. No matter how large or small our impact! The importance of what we are doing is not diminished by the small minds of our opinionated retractors who seek to discredit us by any means.

And I guess the only questions I have for them is. Why? What do you personally gain from opposing users seeking support? How do you justify yourselves for being stooges for a company parroting the company lines when you yourselves admit you are for the most part not affected because most of you aren't DX Users !

Maybe in retrospect you will see the light and support us instead of standing in the way of our progress tword our goals.

Thank you

Again, I'm NOT a DX user, but I will simply throw out there that there are other discontinued Itch controllers that are receiving support with Serato DJ. Numark V7 and NS7 are 2 of them. The only reason I can see that is because they continue to have a cash flow through Numark's other products (NS6, upcoming NS7 II, and the various low-end controllers through the upgrade path). I still don't understand why Serato isn't willing to allow the Denon and Xone DX users the chance to move up to Serato DJ via the $199 upgrade price like the others. As was mentioned above, how hard can it be to map the new software to those controllers if they continue to support controllers like the NS7 and V7 which are even easier and more basic units?

I'm calling BS on Serato. This is a bad move on their part...and I'M NOT EVEN AFFECTED BY THIS!!!!

You'll get no argument from this from me. What I pointed out is that where as the person who created this petition gave the impression that thousands of users have been affected, less than 100 people (at the time) stepped forth to sign - and many of them weren't even owners of a Xone:DX.

That's like when you see hundreds of millions of people complain about something Facebook is doing, but when poll time rolls around, only a few hundred thousand actually participate.

Since I bring up polls, it's like when you see people complain and complain about their elected officials, but none of them go vote (Lupe Fiasco).

I'm merely pointing out that it kind of looks like blowing smoke (no offense). I understand that people truly feel that they have been left out in the cold.


I don't agree here. After all, I'm not going to expend energy developing a website to be compatible with IE6 when Microsoft no longer supports it - nor for Mozilla Firefox 3.6.x when Mozilla ended support 9 months ago (at time of writing).

@ Papa Midnight - we're not talking websites updating coding though, we're talking about a MIDI controller.

There is no technical reason that will stop the DX working with SDJ. It can easily be mapped. Rane is choosing not to do it simply because they have no further monetary agreement with A&H therefore get no future income from them. They are completely throwing aside the people that have already bought into their software.

I would be happy staying on Itch if they would at least fix the bugs on 2.2.2. But to say we can't be supported on the new software is wrong, cause they could easily map it and charge us the full price, and to expect we should stay on buggy software with no future fixes is wrong.

You mean SERATO! RANE have nothing todo with Itch or serato DJ. They just make hardware for Scratchlive software. SERATO is in charge of ALL software and its totally upto them!

Aren't we? You're essentially talking about the same thing: Obsolescence (whether it be planned or not).

You refuse to build a website that supports older browsers. People paid good money (a lot more than that controller) for that Pentium 4 w/ HT and a couple of gigs of RAM with Windows XP Professional which at the time could've been as high as $2,000 USD (and do believe me, as someone who works in IT, I can tell you for a fact that there are people (sadly) who still use these kind of machines). Or those who paid similar amounts for an Older MacBook (Pro) but can't even update to OS X 10.6.x and are stuck on older browsers.

Think they don't feel just as slighted? I can assure you, one was rather pissed when I told him he couldn't access a platform because he physically could not update flash or his browser.


You mean Serato. Rane does not partake (to date of this writing) in the production, design, or manufacture of controllers.

Also, no one is being thrown aside. ITCH still works (though I won't deny that the large library issue on Windows is a pain in the ass) and continues to be used by many a person (including myself) to this date. If Serato DJ had not been announced by Serato as supporting any controllers, would you be up in arms? How do you think the Denon owners feel? Say Serato had announced SDJ would support the Xone:DX but not the Denon (as it doesn't): Would you have risen to their defense as well?



You can always map it yourself. Serato does give you that option. If it's so easy, then have at it.

Hey everyone, I just want to clear this up quickly. It's not just as simple as us MIDI mapping the controller and switching on support. There is a lot of development work that goes into supporting controllers apart from just the mapping which includes all of the device connection, authorization work and audio routing. As well as this, the mapping is all hard coded into the software.

It's a case of allocating our limited development resources where we can to work on all of our products and we are doing our best to support and continue to develop our platforms for all of our products. As the Allen and Heath Xone:DX is a discontinued piece of hardware, we are not able to support this in Serato DJ. It will continue to be supported in ITCH 2.2.2 and the support team will still help you get your system running smoothly.

I understand that this is frustrating and disappointing. At this stage that's all I can say though sorry.

Sam.

@PM
This is rediculous your smart VERY smart and sometimes smart people have a hard time admitting they are wrong. I don't want to be disrespectful or condecending but in the Computer/Server and infact most any if not all business to business or Professional Services world. Meaning businesses that provided products or services intended for Professionals this is unheard of! We are not buying "consumer" electronic software here these are Professional grade business tools this is why we pay the HIGHER premium. Now if Serato made a bad business decision and its way of fixing this is Sticking it to they're consumers .Then they are WRONG what we are doing is speaking out and if the company refuses to listen to us then they don't deserve our business.

@Samuel S

It is not the Consumers fault that your development resources are limited and if you look on the back front or Side of any Xone DX Device there is no button that says press this for use with seperate Software as most any of the newer devices are now equipped with. Don't try to flip my argument and say there is no sticker that says for use with Serato DJ on the DX either because we are not asking for that. We are reasonable and only asking for either further development to provide features and stability Promised to us by Serato on they're ITCH Product or an upgrade path to Serato DJ if the Company doesn't wish to Develope ITCH anyfurther.

Thank you

Benny: I'd suggest a read on Obsolescence. Specfiically, Technical obsolescence, and Functional obsolescence.


iPhone 2G
iPhone 3G
iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4
iPhone 4S
iPhone 5

iPad
iPad 2
iPad 2 HD
iPad 3
iPad 3 (128GB)

--

Unheard of? Apple makes a business model of it.

But you are NOT supporting it on ITCH 2.2.2. All future bug fixes will be released on SDJ. If you fixed the current bugs on 2.2.2 i'd be happy to keep using it. In a recent support request i'm being asked to downgrade to ITCH 2.2.1 or 2.2, which still have their own bugs 2.2.2 was supposed to fix.

So i understand if the mapping is taking up your valuable resource, but my software crashing in the middle of a gig or audio popping and dropping out is not my fault. It's the fault of the software, and as the producers of that software you should be telling me you will fix it and let me continue to use that version of ITCH, rather than tell me to be happy with buggy software because you have decided to use your resources elsewhere (= DUMPED)

*Sigh* I hate to keep harping on this but planned obsolence is a myth no company makes a product simply to take it off the market and not make money from it anylonger. Innovation and new products often push companies to innovate or create new products but if a companies product were superior to anything on the market and they sold regardless of pressure from other similar products they would stay on the market forever. For example things like cereal , soap , toothpaste , shampoo , mouthwash there is literally little to no change in formula between any brand of these products. This is why marketing and advertising are so essential for these Products Brands because that is how they nab their market Share.

In the case of Apple and in the wake of near bankruptcy and the return of Steve Jobs before the Iphones and Ipads. Planned obscelence became a part of their business model because they needed a steady revenue stream. The computers weren't selling the Ipods were and so to keep money in their pockets they changed them every 3 to 6 months Marketed them heavily with huge Ad campaigns and they kept selling. Enter "planned obsolence" every product made by Apple from the Ipod on has followed the same business model but again these are ALL examples of consumer goods.. Meaning products made for the end User!

Which Serato does NOT DO! Because they make Software for DJ's and Producers to provide a service or aid in the production of music wich then becomes a Product or Service that is then Marketed and sold to the end User/consumer or whatever given away for free..

Now can we please stop talking Apples and Oranges and talk Apples and Apples!

Please read this money.cnn.com

Allow me to explain how this relates to Serato .. Serato is strictly a SOFTWARE company
there is no hardware made by Serato that they can depend on for a revenue stream they rely on their hardware/technical partnerships and whatever deals they turn out in exchange for constant developement of the software.

The problem is the developement has now become unsustainable and they are losing money as it stands now Serato only makes money when you buy Serato licensed equipment, Pitch N time / Rane Series Plugins, Vsl or control vinyl. They are then stuck with the responsibility of staying relevant and current with the trends in our industry. Seem fair? No! But this is not our problem the CEO and Sales team at Serato have put themselves in this Mess!

Here's why this issue is important to every Serato User not just DX Users seeking Support.

Since switching the focus of SAR or (Serato Audio Research) from the Stagnant arena of audio plugins to the Growth Sector of DJ Vinyl emulation Software paired with hardware products. We have seen many companies attempt and fail to match the stability found in
Serato's small but powerful array of products.

Companies like Atomix VDJ made their products cheap easy to use and didn't even require extra gear other than your laptop and it's on board soundcard. Final Scratch failed
was swallowed by Native Instruments was spit back on the market as Traktor Scratch and adapted the Apple "obselence" model going from Traktor scratch to Traktor Dj Studio 1-3 to Traktor to Traktor scratch pro to Traktor pro to Traktor 1.5 , 2.0, 2.5, 2.6 on and on and on! making money on the outer ridges of SSL for YEARS chipping away market share while all the time bit by bit adding features and improving stability.

NI added sample players SSL followed Fx Same Midi actually I think Serato was first there but anyhow now we're at a crossroads The Serato Products are for the most part on Par with the NI line.. With VDJ Close at hand Promising to be there shortly with VDJ 8. Small scraps with controllers asio drivers the bridge etc etc.. Then a lil over 2 years ago Technics SHUTS it's doors ! People rush to stores as the first MIDI controlled vinyl emulation systems really start to take hold. Serato scratched but not yet broken takes valuble resources and begins to create Serato DJ Not wanting to fall into the same trap They outline the beginings of an Apple styled "Planned Obselence" Model thinking shoot worked for NI Traktor and Apple why not us?

Answer two fold.. 1. You are a SOFTWARE Company 2. You no longer command the market share.. So much so that your own hardware partners no longer believe in your long term viability. Proof of that being most any of the "New" controllers have buttons that say for use with Software OTHER THAN Serato.. Even the Asio drivers Provided for the entire line of Rane interfaces Put you at Risk.


In summation the reason this is important to everyone is because in 1- 5 years Your SL2 to SL4 will be obsolte as well as the rane 57SL to 68 and 62 most likely Serato will hemorrage from the blow. Bleedy out and die my posts will eventually be picked up by business colleges and be part of lesson plans such as Why the customer is always right.

BTW
On the off chance I'm wrong at the very least SSL will be gone ITCH is already in the scrap heap Serato DJ will be here but it'll be three times more expensive than anything out there
Support will be Non-existant the program will be buggy and what of Serato's other products? They were sold to Ableton Live to keep Serato DJ going.



I'm ofcourse exagerating a bit but there's a reason why Apple's rack Server division is almost non existant it's because the "Planned Obsolence" model does not work in
businesses that make professional products Look at NI Dropped it's price. I guess you could make an argument for VDJ but they don't follow "Planned Obsolence" look at they're versions they are only on version 7. Their long term viability has everything to do with the VDJ Community. Users build their own effects and share them the company encourages this by sponsoring the most popular ones and paying the users that create them they also have a VDJ only music service that allows them to play any song Made using an internet connection through VDJ and it cost less than 10 dollars a month.

Someone Please forward my Posts to the Serato CEO I need to have a Serious Convo with the Board.

Cool story bro.

Anyone brave enough to read my in whole post and in one sitting has my respect.

Thank you phatbob

@ DJ Koeul Benny

+ 1000 dude. Long but well put :)

Astonishing! two takers :)

Thank You DJKerin

He didn't read it, lol.

knowyourmeme.com

Now I actually did and two paragraphs in, you had me scratching my head. I'll explain why:

You initiate your opening statement by saying that planned obsolescence is a myth, yet it is a fundamental practice and taught to every bachelor candidate in Economics 101.

Second, you term us as professional users. While we may be working professionals in our field, in the manufacturer to consumer relationship, we are the consumers. In terms of usage of this software (and even the hardware), we are end users. We are not enterprise customers, we are end users.

Additionally, I cannot think of a single audio device with a usb port on it that does NOT come with ASIO drivers (or isn't usable as a WDM-Audio Device). If you can think of one, please point it out.

Also, sense you point out the Xserve and rack server line, I'll point you to this quote:

It's not financially logical to stay in the market. Blackberry's mobile market share is bigger than that.


And again, we come back to the majority vs the minority.

If a product is discontinued (no further sold licenses), and support for it has ceased, I'm not going to expend resources to work on further development for that product when there is no financial incentive to do so.

Side note, though Apple's stock has dropped to ~$450 today, that story was published on December 7, 2010 (AAPL - $389.09). That day, stock moved all of ~.90 cents. By the end of the month, it was up about $16 (AAPL - $405.00). January 31, 2012, the day of product termination, Apple's stock rose even further ($456.48). Apple's stock peaked in 2012 at $705.07. I seriously doubt killing Xserve hurt them.

(Source: finance.yahoo.com)



8 is in development. You also didn't count the sheer volume of maintenance and feature releases throughout their product life cycles. As another note, VDJ (much like Serato) does not make people pay for new updates once they own VDJ Pro. The difference here is that many VDJ mappings are created by end users themselves.


Illogical. Why would you price yourself out of the market (not to mention it's free for owners of supported ITCH products)?


Anything to back up this statement? I ask because I've seen nothing of the sort while watching that forum.


...what are you talking about and what proof do you have to back up your claims?


...really? Really?

Thank You PM

I knew you were a smart person when I started this lets get beyond the fact that your tone
is condecending at best and your being dismissive of my arguments by tryin to color what I wrote as complete fact Ignoring that self admittedly I was exagerating to make a point.



**Back to the Dissertation**

I'm not trying to "Say" Planned Obselence is not taught I'm saying it does not exsit.
I'm also not "Saying" It's not practiced .

What I am Saying is it does "NOT" work in an enterprise setting.

Your response?



In simplistic terms I concede between Serato and You I "WE" who purchase and use the software are end users. Just as to Apple and their enterprise Customers are as "WE" are Consumers of their Products...

Yet allow me to illustrate my point Does your grandmother Own Serato? Mother ? Cousin?
Baby Sister? ... I mean they can if they want to but How many of us own Servers? You?
I certainly don't ! I do own a few computers.. >STOP< I'm getting Nasty and I don't want to insult your intellegence as you offended mine.

Then you persist



You don't stop there You go on!! Site sources talk about Virtual DJ Blah blah BLAAH.
THEN! You ask One Very Important Question?



Now before I answer your question I'd like to adress the two quotes before this recent one.

Yes it was NOT viable for Apple to continue its Server division. but why? Because compared to other Server Products on the Market at the time Apples Product was and continues to be Way Over the average Price point for similar products performing the same task. Meaning they're more expensive and people didn't want to buy them.

Not to mention 1.They didn't do anything any better than the average sever 2. There wasn't really any special technology that made them superior to any other Server.

Point being!

3. They Simply couldn't Sell the things because they couldn't justify the Price.

The second instance quoted was customer satisfaction at the time of these changes and let me answer this question with a question or a few...

At this time are you satisified with Serato? How many Serato User other than the disenfranchised in your opinion will be returning customers in fact how many even of the disenfranchised do you think will be returning Satisfied customers?

>Wait for clarafication<
The argument here is semi unfair because for the Most part Apple computing didn't say go away they just said move your Apple X Server Software to supported Consumer Computing solutions Mac Pro/Mac Mini. Infact I believe the server software is still made and I think Pixar is one of the Biggest consumers for that division. WHY? Well (Pixar is another brain child of Steve Jobs <Don't quote me I'm not sure of that and it's irelevant)

Ofcourse ..

This seems very similar to what is happening now to A&H and Dennon customers because our devices have been discontinued. Except that compared to Apple Serato's product array is very limited and also very focused. Not to mention Apple was one company discontinuing it's "OWN" Products and not a Software Company. Saying Well, We just won't support it! Who are they Kidding? They are RE LAUNCHING ITCH in a seperate skin Calling it SERATO DJ and Telling A&H and Denon customers OY BEG AFF YA Bastards. This is like Microsoft making Windows 8 and writing code that prevents it's use on Pre 2008 computer models because they have for the most part also been discontinued! Why Would they DO THIS? Ever heard the saying don't put all your eggs in one basket?

Still following me? OK.

Please let me put this together as long as Serato is around Customers for the most part will be happy and loyal ones like I am and you are and most are.. But as most of us are finding out The Competitors don't look too shabby either.

This my friend is dangerous as a Company my first duty is to my customers and my Second is to my Competition in a fast paced here today gone tomorrow industry like
the Music industry We can not afford to ignore the Competition. Serato hasn't and neither have any of the other Serato wannabe's / Contenders.

Well, Fairly recently just about every product marketed to us other than Serato Products were A. Buggy B.Unstable C.Unreliable this put Serato in a class of it's OWN this means Serato can basically Name their price and people would pony up. Agreed? I mean is it me or is the sound spontaneously Shutting off not the single most imbarrasing thing that could happen to a performer?

**Er ehm, Continuing**

Serato Audio Research has benefitted immencely from this "class of it's own" thing. Starting with the first product Pitch N Time basically Sold it's Self ! That was just the begining. Envisioning the profit potential SAR Made SSL .Shortly, after switching their product focus from plugins to Vinyl Emulation Software! Now, Instead of making a complete product themselves SAR takes a short cut and Partners with Rane *SMART* inturn Garnering them instant world wide sucess.

This is a Bold move and a Posative one because it allows them to grow while keeping the
focus on the Software that they Build!

Let me nail this one home now The following is hypothetical

It is sincerely my belief that the same thing that brought them to Prominence is also a double edge Sword. >Maybe they Grew too fast too soon< Remember I mentioned Don't put all your eggs in one basket? Well Serato has effectively done exactly that by staying a Software company and never diving into making hardware.

Why is making hardware Important? It means extra revenue for the Company.

But REALLY? Why does it matter Serato is still the best around?
My answer.. That's debatable let's look at Serato's Primary competitor Traktor Scratch

Both Programs are Nearly Identical to each other except for GUI that can make a difference
but not Really... STILL.. There is one key difference Traktor Scratch Pro is an all in one Program. You can run TSP and hook up your controller or run time code. TSP Consumers are also already comfortable with the Idea of Paying for the Software... Both these give TSP the Edge!

Ok so TSP has an advantage for being all in one. Why does that matter?

Because this small difference is something SERATO CAN NOT DO !
1. It will alienate their SSL Users
2. It will alienate their Hardware Partners.

What does not being an all in one solution mean for Serato? Basically they have to work twice as hard as NI for the same Dollar. Meaning It prevents them from focusing their development team on the software that makes them money.


I would now like to address this.



Great question.

It's not apparent now but Serato has already priced themselves out of the market NI can afford to cut their Prices down to 25$ On TSP and still make a Profit Serato Can NOT!
Native instruments knows this.

The reason so many controllers are getting the "NEW" Serato DJ software free is because
there would be a mass migration to other products if they killed ITCH and told ITCH customers they would have to pay if they wanted the new features they were already promised. Serato can't afford to lose customers. Look at the trends People are already migrating to seperate platforms. Why? For the same reason enterprise customers were'nt buying servers. Hasn't anyone wondered why the Pioneer DDJ-SX is priced at 1000$ when the Rane 68 is more than Double the price? I mean even the 62 is near double! I know rane can't be happy about this..

Pioneer doesn't even believe in Serato's viability enough to make it 100% exclusive.
By exlusive my meaning is in the same way the Rane line of Serato Branded Proucts are exclusive.

Meaning of course you can use any software with any of the Serato Branded Controllers.

maps.djtechtools.com

But I'll admit it doesn't mean much because this is a trend that started with ITCH Controllers. I'm not saying it's not harmful to Serato's Brand though because it is.

Hey, It could be possible SAR is giddy about their Branded Hardware being used
with Software other than their own. I mean it's like getting something for nothing
because those users won't be comming to them for updates and junk...
But I just Don't see how that's a positive for SAR'S Brand.

Anyone else notice the NI S4 being backwords compatible to Serato DJ? Ofcourse it wouldn't make sense to map it to ITCH because that was FREE to it's customers ... STILL sounds like dirty pool to me

OK >Enough<

I'll explain these final quotes wich you purposefully quoted out of context.
>NOT! Cool man it's an ugly way to win an argument and makes you look Cheap and petty to nit-pick in this Manner.<



Here's my Hypothesis if Serato were to fail or come close to failure they'd have a few choices.

1. Close Shop screw the customers.
2. Merge with a seperate Company. (It would have to be another Software Company)
3. Sell off the technology they own to keep Serato open. (I think they'd keep Serato DJ)

in all these scenerios they'd loose most their assests wich would drive them to lay off more people wich would lead to poor support wich in turn would lead to higher development cost wich they would then pass on to their consumer.

In my opinion insolvency is where the company is headed Right Now. This is not because of the Xone or Denon users no don't get me wrong there..

Yet again tho "In my Opinion" Serato can not AFFORD to LOSE ANY of it's CONSUMERS.
It's COMPANY SUICIDE! But.. this is just one mans opinion what do I kno Right?

Finally yes ..really? ..really?!

I'd like to talk to the CEO and the Serato Board of directors. It might not help but it couldn't hurt to hear me out I may surprise them with a solution.

Anyhow PM no hard feelings? I'd friend you but I'd rather meet you halfway and stick my hand out in a gesture of friendship if your a gentleman you'll meet me there and shake it.

3.bp.blogspot.com

This is truly the thread that keeps on giving.

@D:raf N phatbob

The point I was making was Native Instrument has the ability to Protect Their BRAND.
Serato doesn't have that anymore.

Frickn HUCKSTERs good one :)

...well, it's funny you ask that (stares at his multiple licenses for Windows Server 2008 R2, Server 2003 Enterprise, and RHEL 6; and the multiple Debian virtual machines hosted by OVH).


^This wasn't nitpicking. These were your own words. There was no context with which to take them out of; and to that point, you did not answer.


Exactly. Why spend resources on something with no ROI?


That picture says it all...


...again, with what evidence can you support the claim that Serato is or is becoming insolvent? Serato is not a publicly traded company. It is privately held and has been since inception. It's financials are not public so unless you are a venture capitalist with a specific interest in Serato (significant financial interest), you have no insight into Serato's monetary situation and no basis with which to claim you know the future of Serato (whether as a hypothesis nor as a prospective outlook). Therefore, all scenarios are presently invalid.

Hell, you mention this is not because of Denon or Xone users, yet I would bet dollars to donuts that you would not be here making this post if it wasn't for the Xone not being carried forth. The entire basis of your input has been the discontinuation of support for the Xone moving into Serato DJ.



Despite this, you demand to meet with Sam Gribben (that would be the CEO of Serato unless something has changed in the past few months) with some magical solution that will carry them away from this imaginary financial insolvency. I cannot speak for Serato but I would not even humor the request based on what I have seen in this thread.


Excuse me, but this is the part where I call bullshit. What you have here is basic licensing. New controllers subsidize the cost of Serato DJ. When you buy the controller, you pay for the hardware and a license to use the software with which it is bundled.

At no point was anyone promised new features. When you bought the controller, you bought it as is with the software and feature set with which it was packaged. Nothing more, nothing less. At no point was there any entitlement given to you as an end user beyond that nor was there any incumbency upon Serato to provide you with new features.

People have been threatening to "mass migrate" between products for years. I remember when it was said ITCH would never get SP-6 and people left and right were screaming "I'm going to Traktor" like crying toddlers. Seriously, if they were going to go, they just went. They didn't make a show of it, they just did. Anyone else was just seeking attention.


Here we go again with imaginary conjecture. These are two different markets. Controllers have always come in at significantly less than the vinyl emulation market. Rane likely isn't sweating it because they don't sell to the same market of users.



Oh? I'll tell you what. People have been trying to map the NS7 to Traktor for several years now. If you think you can do it better, you're welcome to have a go at it. DJ Quartz certainly wouldn't mind the assistance.


I'm not being condescending in the slightest. I'm challenging you to support your claims. If you cannot do that, then yes, I will dismiss them.

Interesting discussion...

" At no point was anyone promised new features. When you bought the controller, you bought it as is with the software and feature set with which it was packaged. Nothing more, nothing less. At no point was there any entitlement given to you as an end user beyond that nor was there any incumbency upon Serato to provide you with new features."

That is not entirely correct. Fact is: a major selling point is the advertisement that you get free lifetime updates. Assuming this excludes new features is far fetched. Of course they are indirectly sayin: Buy it now. Never pay again. You'll get all the future stuff for free.

Whether this is a good or bad thing is a different question. A few agos I thought that it's pretty cool. Now I think differently. I'd pay a 100bucks a year just to make sure that we get bug fixes (and features) earlier and with a better quality.

Quick devil's advocacy for a moment here. In the product life-cycle, the free updates implies free updates for the life of the product.

That said, did that free updates for the lifetime of the product imply new features or updates with bug fixes / support for new operating systems?

Just throwing in something to think about. Personally, I like to think the former (I love new features. I'm just pointing out the invariable crux of the issue here).

Lifetime free updates mean that an existing customer will get the same features and bug fixes that a new customer will get with his latest build.

That's it.

If the new product will not be supported anymore as in "no further updates" - it means that the current existing user will be stuck. This applies to Itch currently. No more updates.

@Nik39 This is a surprise to hear.. Coming from you?

Then again I've been following your posts for a long time and from my experience I believe you to be a professional thru and thru. So it doesn't surprise me that you could hold a view like this.

BTW
@Nik39 I'd also pay every year and for the same reasons. Except now I'm Very happy with VDJ so it would be a much harder decision to make. You know a few ago. I couldn't dream I'd one day be Singing the praises of Other Software much less anxiously awaiting their latest release... The world is a strange and wonderful place...


@PM
I don't know what to say about you because you Refuse to look at the bigger picture and what this all means for all of us as a whole. The way I see our industry the trend is aimed dead center at Controllers. I saw this years ago and so did many other forward thinking individuals who bought controllers early on. Serato has been very lucky in that it has Struck Lightning several times but if Serato DJ doesn't combine with SSL and incorperate the Rane line into the NEW program they are going to lose a HUGE section of their customer base when DJ'S formally accept the controller as the medium of their creative needs.

People like me and some others saw this coming even before the Technics 1200 was discontinued. As far as me "NOT" posting if it weren't that I myself am a Xone DX owner that is laughable. As good as you are at research you fundamentally FAILED !
Some of my first posts on these threads about the move of Serato NOT to support
Denon and A&H in Serato DJ dealt specifically with the Use of other Software with the Xone DX hardware not out of Spite or threat of never using another serato product again but simply to report what I had done and how I have incorperated my hardware with other software to suit my future needs.



You gave me exactly 1 example to prove your point so I will beat that and give you two to prove mine.

maps.djtechtools.com
www.numark.com

Here is also the Serato DJ website your not going to turn me into your stooge just so I can prove a point. Do your own research prove me wrong.

serato.com

>Closing<

@PM I apologize for over estimating and over stating your intelligence. I now realize you are
Simply a common TROLL. As proven by the following



Thank you for your attention.

After all he says, with no legitimate argument or ability to back up his claims, he declares me a troll.

I suppose I should not be surprised. This is the internet, after all.

if you can map it on itch u can map it on the serato dj with the same codes.

BTW, I forgot which thread this is and what this is about. It's ethically a bad decision from Serato to drop support for a product which has been available on the shelves until recently. Of course someone who bought the DX or the Denon will majorly pissed. And he has every right to be pissed.

How does that fit in to what I said about free updates and ITCH getting no support and this would be okay? Simply because... Serato has promised to offer The Bridge. And because provenly the latest Itch build has its issues.

On top... Why would you want to pass off your new customers in such a way? I am not saying that Serato has to offer SDJ for the abandoned products, but it would be wise to offer an alternative upgrade path: all dx and Denon users could get a rebate if they buy a new SDJ controller or the new software in combination with an Intro controller.
Simply saying: Sorry guys, this device has reached its EOL, you're out of luck (a mod even said "it is what it is" - C'mon, you don't say this to a customer) - that's bad.

This device is not old enough to be abandoned. If you have to abandon it - please offer an alternative, considering that this customer shelled out some good money. If not then you're burning bridges and I really hope that this customer votes with his money and does not buy any product from the involved companies.

My 2 cents.

Even I'll admit, and I'm on record as saying this before (and it slipped my mind till you mentioned it): the whole fiasco over The Bridge was pretty messed up.

I'm glad we're finding some common ground and not just trying to one up each other.


I'd be happy with this solution.



It would be just as easy just to support the discontinued items but time and time again I read mods saying this.



To me the statement is very telling of what is actually going on behind the scenes but like PM said unless we are venture capitalists with close ties we don't know.

My best guess is the team is spread thin and they can't keep up with the work load alot of this has to do with having to split developement between 3 programs. Well, at least it was until they stopped developing ITCH. Now they have a seperate problem the cost of future developement of their software will always be higher than any of the competions if they don't combine the software they produce. For this reason it is Important to combine the software. It also wouldn't be a bad Idea to start production of their own hardware. I'm willing to bet "Dollars to Donuts" that Ranes biggest sellers are it's Serato line of products. If Serto could develop one Software keep the Rane Products Sync free and Produce It's own controller. The future of this company would be more secure. Ofcourse, their existing contracts and what not may become a problem because we don't know what either party has agreed upon (Nor should we know).
>Back to my Point wich is<

These contracts become secondary if they can prove they can't be competive in the market and still survive if they keep things the way they are.

I think I've perfectly outlined these points in my prior posts. Now, one question please.

If Serato can't even afford to hire an extra guy or two just to support 2 controllers. What makes anyone think they have the capitol to stay relevant enough to win new customers every year?

No Customers No Serato People wake up this is the "crux" of the matter when I say
the issue of Serato abandoning A&H and Denon users should matter to every User.

I ignored this because I am a gentlemen.

Who would take a risk if the results weren't sure yet the price of the software is?

Your statement is however re-assuring and hopeful. GREAT POST DJ Tornado!

I hate to believe the internet but why is there a story in the New Zealand Business Center News about Serato recieving a $490,000 Government Grant dated Nov 5 2012?

Source:www.nzfundinggrants.org


I'm not saying anything but doesn't $490K seem like a relatively small amount to go to a government agency for? Won't banks lend $490K to Serato?

Yeah, 'cos free money from the government is well worth turning down in favour of a bank loan.

You must be well clever at business and that.

Can't also help but notice that money is specifically designated for R&D, and was noted by the article as a "success story".

So we pretty much all agree that Serato should at least do as they say and "continue to support DX users in Itch 2.2.2", which is a complete conundrum when they won't actually FIX 2.2.2. So Serato is lying to us. 'Supporting' us DOES NOT mean telling you to downgrade to previous versions, with their own bugs, and with less functionality.

If the thousands of DX users using Itch had the option to pay full price for the SDJ software, since they are already loyal Serato customers, surely this would generate enough money to warrant spending dev time on the mapping?

Are that many mixtrack users really going to pay a higher price for SDJ when Traktor is cheaper? I don't think so.

Or is it simply because future revenue will continue to come in to Serato from Numark for other controllers, whereas the A&H partnership has ended, meaning no future revenue from them, simple screwing over users that have already bought into the software? I'm guessing this is a massive reason why we are being treated in this way. No future revenue = no more development, why bother when you already have the user's money in your pocket!

Mods on this forum have told us to just go get other software if we're not happy. I'm really hoping this is not the company line. This shows the level of contempt for their users and that they don't care at all about us leaving for NI.

I'm happy staying on Itch 2.2.2 if it WORKS. And that means future bug fixes. If Serato can't be bothered to do that or to let me pay to use the new software then they are pretty much forcing me to go elsewhere. I just can't have my software glitching and failing in the middle of a set. It's embarrassing!

@DJKerin
I know you I and others that post here are doing so because we Really care about the future of this company but as you can see the attitude of some other users makes it difficult for us to excerise our right to speak out they challenge us make snarky comments and When they can't defeat us they throw Baby Tantrums.

I thank you because your post reflects so many of my own views.

Best part of that news article about the grant is they talk about the bridge. To bad serato wont event talk about the bridge lol lol lol

I've been a long time user since 2005....I do praise this product and tell my co Djs that it's the way to go....But this one really scarred there reputation for being stubborn of them to not even letting the DX users pay to upgrade if it's about the money....That is money wasted and a lot of hate from DX users.....

I'm not sure about the inner workings of SERATO but they are showing off there true colors now....DX users have been customers at one point in time now that the company A&H ditched them SERATO did the same...The way i see it if I was SERATO give the DX what they want sell them the NEW upgrade and that will generate more money for them...Just don't leave them in the cold.

This is a pretty juicy discussion, and I have been following it for a while. I too am a DX owner, SL3 owner, Ableton owner, Traktor 2.5 owner VDJ owner, two 1200MK2 owner, and an owner of various other midi based controllers (APC40, midifighters, xone k2, triggerfinger, NI x1 & f1, exc).

By choice I have purchased all and have done my best to learn how to perform using each. For me, some work great, but feel too "sync'd", and some don't work at all for what they are intended for IMO. The Xone DX is, to me, the best compromise of organic mixing and clarity. Therefore, I have 2 (one for backup).

To compliment the discussion in its dynamic sarcasm from some, the "argue for the sake of argument" from others, and the "we never said that" mentality of still others would truly misrepresent the big picture here: Serato is not supporting the Xone DX.

DJ Koeul Benny's link was equally insightful on the $490K government grant that was awarded to Serato for "Research and Development". I for one would be interested to read the specifics of the grant. Sounds to me like the support for the Xone DX could have been covered in part of the grant.

I'm not telling Serato how to spend their money on this grant, in fact, I am congratulating them. Anytime a company that employs between 51 - 200 employees (check their Linkedin site, that's all they have working there) can score that big of a grant is fantastic. I only hope that "the bridges" they keep burning will keep them atop this competitive market share.

If nothing happens here hate will generate hate.

I actually Don't Hate Serato but I've been a long time User and I just hate to see them go away. All the writing seems to be on the wall I just want people to understand whats going on.
It's gonna be bad all around to see this community disappear. 1yr ago sold an SL1 for 412 plus shipping 4-5 Mo's ago another for 360 two weeks ago sold my last SL1 and the customer stiffed me .. Now who knows? If the Xone DX weren't such an excellent soundcard I'd have gotten rid of it long ago although some users have experienced Problems with the equipment. Those of us who managed to get good ones know how solid they are. I actually never thought of using anyother Software Product other than those provided by Serato but this small slap in the face woke me up to alot of things.

This, to me, is wayyyyy more important than Serato DJ support, and it's one of several reasons I'm not sweating this whole thing. Itch was a bonus to me, not so much a selling point.

That and the fact that Itch 2.2.0 works great for me are the two main reasons why I'm not sweating this whole thing.

If nothing lasts for ever, what makes DX software support the exception?

</outkast>

Um .. If you didn't need ITCH couldn't you have bought a Prosonus or some other Soundcard? It just doesn't make sense that anyone would pay 1200-1400 for a quality soundcard.



I guess I just need more explaination..

The Xone DX Dated by articles on DJTT

Inception:www.djtechtools.com 2009
Birthday:www.djtechtools.com 2010
Death:www.djtechtools.com 2012

Serato ITCH has a lil more age to it but not much..
djworx.com

Nothing lasts forever implies it's been around for a long time that's not the case here.

(a): I still wanted a DJ controller. Compared to other options like the Twitch and all that Numark/Hercules/Reloop stuff, the Xone DX was by far the most versatile compact option.

(b): I didn't pay anywhere near $1200 for mine; I got it brand new for $479 (including tax) knowing that it was discontinued.

sono d'accordo anch'io

¿que?

I just went Sunday at my local guitar center it's $378 from what I remember.

I call bull S**T

From my understanding, Xone DX will work fine with Serato DJ as long as one of the Serato DJ approved controllers are plugged in. Is that correct?

And if that's the case, the audio routing can be done thru the Xone, the device connections are done, and we are all willing to map it ourselves.......AND PAY for the update.

So it sounds to me that the only thing we are missing is "AUTHORIZATION" This controller works with Itch, NI, and any virtually any other DJ software out there EXCEPT FOR THE ONE COMPANY THAT IT WAS MADE FOR! Huh?

So when do we get the truth? I think we all see the truth, but it would be better if we got an official press release. I think that's fair and appropriate. It's time the CEO does his job as I would.


PS
Didn't I hear mention of a grant? And I think I recall everyone here in support of the Xone say they are willing to pay for the upgrade. I don't think that resources are the issue here either. If they are, then your current business model is not working! Why would you do more of the same?

And if you're truly sorry and want to preserve Serato's future, you'll sign the petition as well.

Forgot the link: www.change.org

Sono Italiano quindi mi scuso per l'inglese.
Anch'io ritengo che A&E sia un ottimo controller e che sia stato sbagliato toglierlo dal
mercato visto altri controller che ancora sopravvivono.
Ritengo anche che Serato può continuare con aggiornamenti di ITCH oppure visto che stà investendo su Serato DJ 1.1.1 - fare una versione a pagamento per Xone DX.
Ciao

Oh wow, you lot are still at it...



Your 'understanding' is apparently... somewhat limited.

Shame about the petition numbers. Only at 150 after almost 4 months, and zero confirmed DX owners amongst them. Aah well, good try.

Instead of patronizing, why don't you elaborate? I don't think I'm to far off, the only aspect that I was unsure of is if it could route the audio. Even at that, I'm still not far off.

Users can't map everything in Serato DJ. Not by a mile. And that's before even considering the feedback TO the controller which can't be mapped at all.

"Emmanuel P. MACOMB,
I own a Xone DX, and am completely disappointed that Serato and Allen & Heath "

"Tom L. LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM
Because I forked out more than I could afford for a product that has been left behind after only a couple of months!"

"Antonio V. PENICHE, PORTUGAL
Because Xone Dx & Serato it's my LIFE !!!!"

"Carl Z. KALISPELL, MT
I to own a Xone DX and feel that they should keep supporting the products they endorsed before the new software."

This is a quick list of admitted DX owners who have signed the petition.

^^ You can add me to that list too. I signed and I own one....

So five, then.

Troll

Six ;)

Granted, I'm not up in arms about it but I signed anyway...

me too, but these days i (frustated) sold my DX

very true

Seven, and the second guy that call you troll

Keep it coming.

So far we're almost up to $1000 for Serato to engineer SDJ for the DX, and provide support in perpetuity whilst receiving no revenue from the hardware manufacturer. Bet they must be falling over themselves to do that.

Wait a minute, I never said I would pay for it... lol

Maybe if they priced it at $50-$60...

150 buyers at $200.......$30K is a good start to get this done.

Not even close to 150 buyers. It's been noted already that a significant portion of those signatures are not of Xone owners.

Not to mention Serato is a software development company who works closely with hardware partners to bring as close to exact 1:1 mapping to controllers.

Granted Serato pays roughly the same market rate to their base as US developers... and accounting for USD to NZD, $30,000 USD won't even get you past the first 4 developers before you're out of money... for a single month of work.

Also, considering everything: everyone seems to want to put the blame on Serato here. Has no one actually accounted for the fact that Serato works closely with these hardware manufacturers, and that considering the fact that Allen&Heath no longer wishes to support the software, they do not wish to expend the resources to work with Serato to provide support for their product so that it works 1:1 with Serato DJ? This is a two way street...

So Serato sells software only needs to check whether the market will allow
to amortize the development costs of the mapping.
I think that Serato, the reputation it has and to meet consumers must make an effort and provide mapping Serato DJ.
The cost may be the same as support for other controllers $ 129
hello

...this what most people understand, Thank you for pointing it out PM

don't understand i mean...

Really? The nay sayers here don't understand.

The Xone is completed equipment that Serato has already worked with. They don't need to spend anymore time with A&H except for maybe their consent......and that's a stretch. They have all the specs they need, It's as simple as choosing not to do it. And until they have an official press release as to why, that's where it stands.

You can purchase Virtual DJ, Traktor, Mixx, Cue, Ableton, and many more DJ softwares, and the Xone DX will work with ALL of them. Serato is the ONLY company putting this extreme limitation on it's own customers. Instead of creating and selling software that works with 3rd party hardware, they try and set up proprietary scenarios with predetermined obsolescence that requires a 20 pound dongle! The only thing this is going to do is piss people off. Hence, this thread.

This is not about the money for me as it may be with others here. I can purchase a new DJ controller once a week for the next year and not bat an eye. It's principal. I own a retail business with 40 employees, and I would never leave customers hanging as Serato has. You know why? My customers wouldn't stick around long and I would soon be out of business. I know we have a lot of tech head dis here, but I don't think to many of you are retail business owners as I am. What's been done here is wrong, and unless you open your eyes and help do something, you're mixer is next on the chopping block and Serato as we know it will eventually be a thing of the past through some acquisition or bankruptcy.

There are people buying up the Xone DX BRAND NEW, believing they have top of the line products only to land on this thread days later when they encounter ITCH bugs. They will all say the same thing as I did, "huh? discontinued already...WTF?" This is utterly destroying Serato's reputation.

If you believe in Serato and want them to be there long term, you need to support Xone DX owners.

Had a nice conversation with A&H support while investigating some issues i've had. He said it's a full stop, the are no plans at all for the Xone DX to work with SDJ. However they will continue to support it with any Itch update. Support hasn't been told the exact reasons or had an official announcement yet either. He was going to speak to the guy on their end that dealt with the partnership for more info.

He was also surprised to hear that Serato have stated they will no longer be updating and fixing Itch beyond 2.2.2 for DX users. The issue with A&H support is that it can be difficult to determine software vs hardware issues, and if Serato will not fix bugs on the software that are known to exist, it could be hiding hardware issues that A&H are willing to fix since they still support the unit.

I'm sorry Serato, but applying all bug fixed only on SDJ is really bad form and worth leaving you for. If you force me to stay on a certain software then at least make sure it works!

He suggested i go use Traktor and test, since they know it is more stable software (c'mon Serato! We love you but it seems you have a reputation now) for a few hours and see if i get any of the same issues. If i do it could be hardware issues, although from what he said it does sound like I have software issues.

So adieu mon cheri! Traktor Pro 2 is purchased, mapping is downloaded, i'll test over the weekend and decide what to do.

See you guys on the other side!

As a retail business owner, are you in the habit of selling discontinued items as 'current'? I should hope not.

Any retailer who has sold a DX in at least the last year has done so at a discounted price on the basis that it is discontinued. And if they have failed to inform their customers of that fact, then the retailer is 100% at fault.

I'm glad you see my point because that is exactly what's happening.

www.ebay.com

www.amazon.com

provideosound.com

These prices are not deep discounted rates that you would expect from a "discontinued" item. Not all places are selling for these higher prices, but many are. And to an unsuspecting customer, this is highway robbery and an opportunity to despise Serato.

I did the same near the holidays after years of shunning Traktor. If Serato doesn't change their ways, I will never look back as many others are doing.

Serato has now become consumer grade software after reigning only for a few years as the go to for professionals. "Hey, if you can't DJ, buy Serato with this cheap mixer and you can be a star. We make what the masses want, being professional is a thing of the past" should be their new tag line.

Putting aside that the Amazon link says 'currently not available', so we won't count that one, the other two retailers, as Allen & Heath dealers, will be fully aware that the product is discontinued, but are not describing it as such. Therefore, the retailer is 100% at fault in both cases. Highway robbery indeed.

This is where the Amazon ad linked to: www.musiciansfriend.com

Seems to me that only Guitar Center and a few others got the memo.

Yeah, 'cos that's really how it works in retail.

But you know that, you're just being deliberately disingenuous.

And I thought we were finally starting to get along. Thanks for at least helping to keep the thread alive. Google loves new content.

My companies manufacturer let's me know every time a product is updated, repackaged, discounted and yes, even discontinued. That is how it works when dealing with a "credible" company.

Exactly. So in the case of the retailers above, either Allen & Heath or the retailers are at fault, because Serato has never sold a DX to anyone in the retail chain.

I don't know about ya'll, but before I spend hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on something I research it thoroughly first...

This is a sad sad thread comprised of people who are wanting to be heard, and others who are telling them why commenting or even stating your opinion won't work.

Here's the deal...this thread is exactly what it will take to show a company like Serato that we care enough about their software to continue using it, but only to a point. We should all feel like we can be heard. Don't be a hater because you don't see that it effects you. I feel part of the issue here is bigger than turntablists vs. controllers, itch vs SSL, or even Mac vs. PC.

Perhaps the next time that something like this happens, your controller may be on the chopping block. We have all been attracted to the Art of mixing, and we should truly support each other.

That being said, it won't take much more time for those of us who still believe in Serato to stray over to another company, especially if we feel that other company acknowledges our questions, comments, and requests while Serato continues to dodge the bigger issues, like Midi, DX support, and the Bridge.

Tic Tok Serato...Tic Tok

I guess money rules :( to be fair: there are still a lot of professionals who use Serato ' s products.

I'm a DX owner and I signed the petition

I agree with this.

I hate to say this but I am considering trading both my DX's in for a Traktor Kontrol Z2.

It 's true that serato does not hear.
Does not even feel Allen and Heath.
But the voice of many sooner or later give the results.
One would be that the choice of the next controller you do not choose either Serato nor Hallen & Heath.
This is a first result.

the Xone Dx is dead (for serato dj) you should realize that. Thes no way to to talk with Serato

Thanks for nothing Serato!

DX owner here and I'm moving over to Traktor 2 Pro.

Peace bitches! I won't be spending another dime on Serato products!

Two things:

1) This post was totally constructive and pushes the topic ahead positively (not).

2) Seriously, I doubt you're moving to Traktor.
Why do I say that? I cannot even begin to account for the number of times someone has stated they were going to switch to Traktor as some ultimatum for a feature request or something from Serato here on this forum. They're all here still.
I, and others, have come to the decision that these people are doing nothing more than seeking attention. If someone's going to switch to Traktor, they just do. They don't come back to the other forum and make a scene.

It's like when you go to a restaurant, have a bad experience, and decide not to eat there any more. You don't go back there to Outback Steakhouse and say "Peace bitches, I'm going to Fogo de Chao! I won't be spending another dime on Outback!", you just go and know that you're never spending another dime at Outback. All that is is nothing more than attention seeking and in the end, everyone else is looking at you like you're doing nothing more than causing a scene.

Think about it.

P.S. Nice job creating a new account just to say that.

What else can I do?

Serato/A&H have been fairly clear about their lack of desire to support the DX.

I should say that I did quite a lot of research when buying my controller. I LOVE A&H mixers, and didn't want a Numark or Stanton controller. The DX was billed as the top-of-the-pops in terms of Itch controllers. Its tough to see it left in the dust while cheaper controllers continue to be supported in Serato DJ.

To be clear A&H still supports the DX, but Serato does not in the latest version. So, yeah...

you bought your controller with itch. has promised a seller that he also works with serato dj?

It is a free forum.

Not explicitly untrue, but not entirely...; it's just that the behavior is usually indicative of that of internet trolls.

C'mon Papa, you're comparing apple and oranges. I do think it should important to say what you think, and it makes sense to come back and let them know what you think of them.

It's much easier to come back to an virtual place like a forum, less hassle than going back to the restaurant. Also... I would let them know before I leave: your food was terrible, you won't see me again. That should help them to improve. ;)

Ok, this is not a thread to debate whether or not Serato and Apple should run their businesses under the same policies, or Outback Steakhouse, or any other company for that matter. This thread is titled "Serato DJ - Petition for Xone DX Support" for a reason and needs to stay on topic.

The true desire of Serato and Xone DX customers is being lost by opinions, and useless facts from people who really don't care what happens here. I can't BELIEVE the amount of time that has been waisted on this thread by people who oppose what we are trying to accomplish. If you don't support the petition, WHY ARE YOU HERE? Go mix some music or something, will ya?

WE ARE PETITIONING SERATO, not your opinions! The ones who believe that Serato should do the right thing and reinstate ITCH bug fixes OR allow for Xone DX support with Serato DJ, are the ones that need to be heard. All others can keep playing their Vestex or Numark POS. I, along with many others here, own the #1 ITCH controller that ever existed and paid a pretty penny for it. We deserve to be heard and we deserve an answer from Serato, not some DJ that thinks they have all the answers. If you can't support us, MOVE ON!

Unbelievable how divided our DJ community is over something like this. We are all DJs here, Serato is the tool that allows that. The tools have to work or we find better ones from other companies, but we are all still DJs.

lolz

Side note; I enjoy getting "wow, I didn't know Allen & Heath made a controller" comments when I play out. Collector's item/cult status in 2 years... mark my words ;).

I am also a dx owner. I own several pieces of serato specific hardware. sl1 since 1995, sl3, sl4, vci 300, dn hc 5000, DDj sx. I am a DJ but also a service tech for multiple venues. I am also very disappointed in the handling of this dx issue. I DJ using video a lot of times. One thing that has been promised multiple times on this forum is midi to itch. I primarily use it to give myself a separate control of the video for some effects without affecting the playing audio. it has been stated that midi was coming to itch by moderators of SERATO. Well I guess that was a lie because you are now saying that there will be no further updates to itch. I also feel that this is bad business. Somehow you, the SERATO, company should figure out how to either give the features and stability that were promised on multiple threads by SERATO moderators to ich, or offer some sort of upgrade option for this controller. The fact that it is discontinued by the manufacturer should have nothing to do with these features that were promised by the software company. The vci 300 is also discontinued but is on the list of controllers for serato DJ. I have in the past used, recommended, and installed many SERATO specific products but am now researching alternatives due to this issue with the dx, and the dn hc 5000 due to the fact that there will never be midi within the software for these controllers. Something should be done to resolve this issue without customers being forced to seek legal action against a company that they want to support.

SL1 since 1995?

The fact the Serato claims that the resources are not there to support the Xone, but somehow the resources are the to support the Vestex VCI is absurd. Vestex has and probably always will be a second rate DJ manufacturer.


I have heard (and read) a number of times that "Serato has promised" on this forum in regards to ITCH and the Xone. If someone would take the time to find every instance possible and have it logged, it could be time to file a class action suit. You are welcome to message me with the results or if you are willing to support the suit. We may or may not win, but Serato is better off excepting responsibility and investing their resources into supporting the Xone vs. spending it on lawyers. And that would also make for bad PR

..wha... lol?


Fair enough


I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion....


Amazing what happens when a person who knows what they're doing touches a controller and plays an event. :P


Prove it.


You're reaching into dangerous territory at this point. I hope Serato doesn't handle legal threats (even perceived ones) like wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org) as it would result in an immediate lock.

Prove what exactly?




Thanks for the heads up, but at this point it's the least of my concerns.

Oops. Sorry. Typed wrong year. I think I bought my first box in December 2005. I don't know the technical reason why and I have not seen where serato has explained it very well as to why the dx can not be made compatible with serato DJ but I do believe there should be a future update that fixes the bugs in the latest version of itch and gives the features that were said to have been coming in a future update by serato. There may not be a thing we as consumers can do about this but this is just bad business.

Something that could be a possible fix would be if Serato could allow the SL3 to run the Xone DX through Scratch Live. Without booting Itch, just through the SL3 Soundcard...if that is possible.

So here we are: almost 5 months further.

Time for a little roundup:

1. A&H Xone DX didn't sell as well both companies thought. A&H decided to kill it.

2. Serato not happy with decision A&H. Kills Itch as a counter attack. Why? Because: Serato promised life long updates on Itch and this unit is not profitable anymore and never will. So, let's give it another name and problem (seems) solved.

2a. Profitable Itch Units will be "ported" (LOL) to Serato DJ. Other problem solved as well.

3. Unfortunately for Serato: Xone DX users seem not to be retarded as Serato wished for and start to protest. Suprise suprise.

4. Serato states here: Xone DX = dead. No soup for you!

5. A&H states: Xone DX is not anymore in the works. But we still support it, so not as dead as Serato states. (latest drivers are from March 3, 2013) Soup, but no extra bread.

6. Serato states: oh noes! Erm.. oh well Itch IS supported for you DX. We will rub your back if you see a bug when things get itchy. And we promise we will fix the bugs in SDJ, 'mkay?

7. trololo

I'm an Xone DX owner and I was very, very, very disappointed to find out i was screwed by Serato. As i do/did believe in end to end solutions and great integrated software and great hardware. I choose Serato instead of Plastic Instruments. It proved me wrong.

My user experience with Serato is that they don't give a shunt about their pro-users. Refuses to take their loss and carry on (bugfixing), or at least offer a transition programme.

They took the easy way out and so (unfortunately) am I. As Serato finaly hoped for.
This is obviously sad and shows the real face of this company. (fortunately...)

I'm not sure if I +1 for Serato DJ as Serato proved to kill off any unit at any time just by changing the name of the software product. So prove me wrong.

be happy with itch!

Serato Dj had continous RAM Problems and some of the New mappings (VCI400) seems to be build up quick & dirty. I Sold my DX and bought a VCI400 and SDJ 199 $ licence after they promised me, to fix the Itch RAM leak in Serato Dj. I think this will Never happen....but Sdj is now 129$

Hmmmz, so SDJ is a dead end also. Let's see if I can get a proper overlay for my newly agriculture machine.

Until now my xone dx still works with latest itch and latest mac osx. Maybe what I will do is also a good way to go for everybody else... Everybody could just continue to use itch @ xone dx until itch isn't working on current hardware / operating system anymore and then... change to a more open system like Traktor. But how to migrate a library from Serato to Traktor?

Sounds like my plan.



www.djtechtools.com

Haven't had to do it yet but the escape pod is ready...

Every DJ has to at some point upgrade their equipment. But how you define it as out of date is entirely up to you alone, not Serato, A&H, Numark, etc... The DX still has all the features and more from when you bought it with 1.6. In fact the DX was the first controller to have beat matching support. It took several months before other controller users go that capability.

If you look industry wide, Apple, Microsoft, Dell, HP, Asus, etc... their hardware will support generally 2-3 minor/major upgrades before it is rendered unsupported for newer OS upgrades. This is no different. Its unfortunate as I think most Xone DX users really loved their unit, myself included. But we just bet on the wrong horse is all in the race. I still think Serato is the right stable to be in.

If I ever return to the DJ biz, its still the direction I would go.

Will itch still work with upcoming macosx version? Most probably not :-/ until now there is no device on the market which is full featured and small enough to be carried in a bag. All the new full featured controllers are just too f***ing big :-/

Could you clarify what you mean by "beat matching support"?


Yes... and no...

The comparison here is really not even Apples to Oranges: It's NFL to FIFA.


If you are asking if ITCH will work in Mac OS X 10.8.3, the answer is that it is not officially supported (presently). However, I can say that in my experience, it does work without issue.

With regards to device size and feature set, that becomes a matter of preference. I personally cannot stand jog wheels in any form at the present time (hence why I tend to shy away from CDJs but I do play on them from time to time) so devices like the Xone:DX never appealed to me personally. I'd actually be able to tolerate the NS6 with individual VU meters per channel (without the necessity of extra steps to view each deck on the main VU meter) and some decent pitch resolution.

Always remember that you can still map the Xone:DX to other software if it suits you and ITCH is not working for you.

Honestly guys, the DX works great with Traktor. There are MIDI maps available on the Traktor Bible website. All the lights work, the effects work, everything works!

No, it's not as plug and play as with Itch, but it's pretty darn close. After the learning curve it's pretty easy to realize that Traktor is a super powerful DJ solution.

Plus, there are some great benefits to a highly customizable platform like Traktor. For example, you know those little toggle switches above the fader? With Traktor they can activate a filter. Imagine that seldom used Censor button actually becoming something useful!

Migrating your music library isn't all that hard either. From what I can tell Traktor works more like a view of your hard drive's directory.

If the latest (and last) ITCH works for you, great. But it's never going to get any better. Traktor, by comparison will continue to get better and will continue to support non-native controllers.

I say our energy would be better spent trying to convince Native Instruments to authorize the Xone DX as a Traktor certified controller. Unlikely to happen, but this would allow Xone DX users to take advantage of Traktor Scratch and use external CD players or turntables with control records (like Scratch Live meets Itch).

In the meantime, just switch already. Traktor's great, and works flawlessly with the Xone DX.

Itch didn't have the beat grid until the DX version of 1.6. It was not until 1.7 when other controllers was supported.

Regardless of what you may think industry to industry, every software & hardware company has to make a decision at some point to continue to support hardware that is continued. If the hardware is discontinued, it means the OEM isn't going to keep up with firmware updates to support the new software and such. So it makes the job of the software company difficult to write upgrades that introduce new features or radically reinvents the software if you can't change anything about how the hardware reacts and responds.

Well in fact: A&H still maintains the Xone DX with updates as I already said. Might not be forever but they still do Serato on the contrary.

This plus the fact that Serato was so incredibly eager to kill off Itch (even before A&H made a notice the DX was discontinued) does for me the math that there is more goin' on than just "policy". Just to say this company has it's credibility at stake. If not: lost.

Completely incorrect.

A&H could say they will support new power outlets, if they invent them, and it would be true but highly unlikely. Its simply good PR. It just turns out it is highly unlikely they will need to make an investment in a firmware. So it makes them look like the good guy. I have nothing against it and still think A&H products rock. They are just pricy. :)

Lastly, lets consider this A&H discontinued the hardware from manufacturing, which means they are not paying a license fee to Serato. Which means A&H is not going to be a source of growth anymore for the user base. The user base for the DX is frozen. Serato would have to look at the user base, the licensing collected and the effort involved to transition it to Serato DJ. If the effort outweighs the money that came in the door minus the effort already spent across ~6 updates (7 if you count Video)... then it does not make financial sense to continue putting effort into something at the expense if your other users.

As many have pointed out, you can use the DX with ITCH 2.2.2 which give you FAR more functionality than you had with 1.6. For instance, Video Support, Sampler, Additional FX/Controls, additional skin modes, and new library navigation. The video plug in was sold 1/2 off for $99 for a good period of time. So aside from that... all those other features were added free of charge. Over in Traktor land, those features minus Video, would have cost you $130 USB to upgrade to Traktor 2.0 from 1.X (unless of coarse you bought the S4.) Yes, you can use the DX with Traktor and map it yourself as new features come with Traktor. But if "updates" are the only advantage over functionality & stability, what does that give a performing DJ?

eh... bug fixing for instance? We're talking about a product that was bundled with Itch and life long updates. It turned out to be supported for barely two years! Who are you kiddin'?

A&H just released new drivers for OSX 10.8 and new firmware to be compatible with USB3. What does this say about their part in supporting a dead product sir?

Serato just talks it's way out of it and takes zero responsibility. Nice!

For phatbob: obvious troll is obvious:

It's only trolling if I'm posting just to wind you all up. Whereas I'm posting because I believe you're wrong/deluded/entitled. Not the same thing.

Gerschwin, if you are talking about the drivers here:

www.allen-heath.com

Aug 2013 - they released support for Lion and Mountain Lion. Which coincides with ITCH 2.2 that officially supports Mountain Lion. Lion was supported already with 2.1. They had a known issue with the newer Mac line that has nothing but USB3.0 ports built in. That is all the committed to address in the next firmware

March 2013 - they addressed the known issue with USB 3.0 ports on the newer MACs running Mountain Lion.

I am not sure how you take that as endless updates from A&H? That basically makes the combined support between ITCH and A&H whole when it comes to Mountain Lion because all new Macs are shipping with ML.

Also, how can someone call Phatbob a troll? Do some research for some giggles.

Click on phatbob's profile serato.com and then click on "Forum Messages"

Click on Gerschwin's profile serato.com and then click on "Form Messages"

Phatbob has been around for a long while and been a constructive forum member across a number of subject matters on the Serato forums. I am not sure how you would draw the conclusion he is a troll from what he stated in this thread, not by spending 2 seconds to look at his history in the forums.

Know your audience before you judge them. :)

Wanna tissue? /care about reputations.

More obvious, the fanbois took over here.

spoken like a true troll. you just had your last meal. /ignore

Oh noes. Well thank you for your stunning contributions to this thread.

www.djchadjohnson.com


@ DJChad72
Since this is the last day for your website and because your not DJing anymore I'd like to say a heartfelt Good bye. Keep mixing buddy the world is full of wannabe bedroom jocks with no passion and no heart mixing is art I know you understand that.

Lol at "Skillerex".

I was looking into a new controller that supported Serato DJ, even though I really do like my DX, and almost shit myself when I saw that the VCI-100mk2 was going to be supported. On the flip side, Vestax has a few controllers supported that are in production and they are still making money with. So by offering people that still have a legacy controller support, maybe they can lure them into purchasing a brand new shiny one. Serato gets money, Vestax gets money, User gets DJ, everybody is happy.

I feel like A&H has more to do with this than Serato does tbh. Since I suspect A&H won't see a dime from users switching to DJ, as the license fees are now paid for directly to Serato by the user, coupled with the fact that the controller is discontinued, they're probably thinking to themselves "Why dedicate developers resources to making it work with Serato, when we won't get squat out of it."

I really feel like I'm on to something.

Hi, been following the whole situation since i got my Xone Dx. Powerful sound, didn't like the itch graphics. always wanted to pick to work with 2 or 3 decks... Anyway, i have learned the program, and then i realized, there is no more support for it.

I as a user and person that has purchased a console just because of the partnership with serato, am fully disappointed by both of the companies. And as i can see its not only me, maybe a few hundred or a 1000 users, and non of this companies seems to make any move. Well we can badmouth you all the way trough the internet. But what is the point in that. Don't know where this petition is going. Hope that we as a user of the xone system and itch users deserve a different treatment by these companies. Its not a f toy.

Sounds reasonable. But we can only speculate.

Whoever's fault this is, I'm extremely disappointed with the Itch/DX solution. Like others here I invested a lot of money in it because I believed that in conjunction with my Macbook it would be a "professional" solution to digital DJing which would allow me to move away from using decks.

I was very wrong. Itch has never proved itself to be reliable enough for me to dare take it on stage. So many times I'd get an application crash and exit just recording a mix at home. It seemed to get progressively WORSE with new versions rather than better, and the last released version of Itch is NOT something I would trust to play out with. Now the product is discontinued and will not be supported anymore...

Was that worth £1000? I don't think so.

The saving grace is that NI Traktor can be mapped to work with the XOne DX, and in my experience so far is more powerful and more stable than Itch ever was.

Honestly Serato, you could have kept people's good will by offering DX users the ability to upgrade to DJ and get continued support, even if it was at a (reasonable) expense. Instead you've been fully shown up by Native Instruments, and have put a lot of people off ever trusting your brand again.

And yes I realise that A&H probably had a big part to play in this too, but as the software developers it's you that this reflects worse on, whether that's fair or not.

...I'm seeing a general trend here so I'd like to pose an inquiry to those present.

Let's say Serato had indeed, on their own, put forth the resources to bring Serato DJ to the Xone:DX. Let's then say that Serato went to the DJ Intro route and charged something along the lines of $49.99 to $99.99 for a license to use Serato DJ with the Xone:DX.

I am curious as to how many persons here who have been affected by this can honestly say that they would not be equally angered for having to pay to move to Serato DJ while other ITCH users with supported controllers did not.

Papa Midnight,

I would think it's not fair if I had to pay 100$ to move to DJ but it would at least be a possibility to get out of the dark and I would pay for the upgrade as it would be the only way out.

I had an answer from Serato that the mapping of platters would be the problem with DJ. I would even pay 100$ for a DJ version with platters that are not exactly responsive, just to be able to use the other functions on the Xone:DX.

As Serato DJ has mapping functionality, someone in the community would be able to make proper mappings. Just make the hardware check agree with a Xone:DX and the community will find a way of using Serato DJ "at our own risk".

So let me get this straight...

Even with the database bug persisting into SDJ, you would sooner pay $100 to run a semi-unsupported version of it with hacked platters rather than move to Traktor, which has been proven to work, has many of the same features (and then some) and costs less?

Why?

Mixvibes cross 2.4 has 4 decks and supports xone dx. Might be worth looking into.

+ 1, Support the DX or clearly you'll loose quite a few customers. Xone Dx's are ALL over Amazon and Ebay therefore they are clearly being used and reused. I understand Serato's profit in supporting a controller that is no longer sold directly from the manufacturer will be second to none, but how about the fact that that is actually incorrect? You have a lot of downright PISSED OFF customers here that spent $1200, myself included. I'm sure I speak for over half of us here when I say should Serato continue to not support the DX in their latest software I will gladly switch over to Traktor even come the future when I buy a new controller. I will avoid Serato at all costs because think about it, why WOULDN'T after spending over a grand on hardware only to be left in the dust with a software that will quickly become outdated? Give me one reason why I wouldn't. Only a fool would shake that off and go out and buy a DDJ SX because try convincing me I won't be faced with the same scenario in the future, just try! I won't believe you at this point, as any intelligent customer wouldn't. The Xone DX is still one of the most powerful Serato utilizers that is, if you LET it continue to be. Aside from the 92 mixer, it is also Allen & Heath's most popular product, 3rd place being the Xone 4d. So, with that being said, think about the mass of fanbase you'll be pissing off, screwing ove and as a result loosing.

If that's true, then considering that A&H swiftly discontinued the DX following a massive fire sale, I dread to imagine how badly their 4th and 5th most popular products must have sold.

Thanks for the hint. I had a few more hints pointing to mixvibes CrossDJ so I figured I gave it a try, only risking 40 Euro.
CrossDJ has kind of parallel waveforms, something I was missing in Traktor and some kind of beat warping, not as user friendly as Serato but working very well.

(On the side: Itch promises unlimited amount of warp markers but after about 120 (128??) it's no longer possible to add more. As I'm mixing non electronic music I need a lot of them and always had to go back to delete some...)

I bought CrossDJ online, all very easy to setup (also something I'm missing in Traktor) but found that the mappings were only supported for CrossDJ1.5, so only 2 decks.... Started mapping, this is very easy but takes time to get everything right and I had a gig coming up in 1 week. So I only mapped what I really needed (4 decks, mixer and effects) took it out and it did not let me down in a 6 hour set. Every time I did a long gig with Itch I needed the backup (netbook) at least once because the software would hang and freeze the screen (while I could still launch the songs that were queued, so it was not the DX that crashed )

I'm very happy with my choice of Mixvibes CrossDJ, I will post my mappings on their forum in a few weeks when I get more tweeks right, so find them there! Last, I had some questions posted on the support forum of Mixvibes and had a reply within 24hours, so another plus knowing that someone is taking care of you!

So Serato you just lost a customer that once really believed in you.

Bye

The left mains on my DX took a dump (a common problem). I bought a Twitch.

I still think this has more to do with A&H. I still really want to like this thing, but right now it's an expensive paperweight that I can't even use with Traktor anymore and that isn't even worth shipping off to be repaired. Couple this with my opinion that A&H are the driving force behind the lack of support and I've been left with a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Not saying I would never consider A&H again, I would just have to think long and hard about it.

I really feel for the people that dropped $1000 (+ in some cases) on this thing. Anyway, good luck to the community of DX owners. To those that continue to scream from the mountaintops, I commend you, but I think most of you realize by now your screams fall on deaf ears. Time to move on to Traktor, or buy a new unit. Nothing will change here, Serato and A&H won't suffer, and unfortunately gents (and ladies if there are any here) won't be getting your money back.

Question,

Being that Serato DJ has midi support, wouldn't it be possible to create a midi file for it?

That is how Traktor supports many controllers. That's how I did my NS7 testing on it until I switched to Itch.

Serato DJ requires a supported controller to be connected for it to work.

The DX is not a supported controller.

For the audio section, etc. Yes

Maybe there can be a compromise where the audio hardware can be supported and then everything else handled by midi.

But then it would most likely be a paid upgrade. Difficult situation.

Mixvibes is pretty amazing.. Scratch performance with the vci-300 is the same as itch. I can pitch down or up 30 with no audio glitches. plus dvs with most any soundcard! Serato Is still my number 1 mixvibes number 2