Serato Software Feature Suggestions

What features would you like to see in Serato software?

12 things I'd personally like to see fixed/improved in Serato DJ

DJ Demolition 2:29 AM - 13 May, 2014
#1 Need my Instant Start back for the Numark V7s. NS7 guys are probably having the same issue.

#2 Need the Itch style Vertical Waveform view back. The VW view in DJ is useless to me. I need to see my cues coming for more than two beats in advance. If that's too much trouble, then at least give us the option of reversing the flow of the horizontal waveforms. In my view, as they are now, they are dyslexic and illogical, IE: you push the record forward, and the waveform moves backward -- you push the right pitch-bend button and the waveform moves to the left, and vice-versa. VDJ already has this option, BTW...

#3 The static waveforms are too short and thin to allow anyone to see the track details. They were barely wide enough in Itch, but these are pencil thin, and need to be fattened up. Also, the cue markers should have their tips resting on the center of the track-line. However, in some SDJ views they are completely lapped over the entire waveform.

#4 Lot's of wasted space in full-screen view. How about making practical use of that area, by allowing us to see all the cues, loops, etc. at once, instead of making us constantly click on different buttons and scroll bars. I'll be glad to post screenshots to illustrate my point, if that will help. Update: www.flickr.com

#5 I'd like to suggest an entirely different GUI layout than what has previously been offered to us by Serato. Have any of your people taken a good look at Torq II? Unfortunately, they do have a lot of unnecessary knobs, faders, etc., on screen, and I'm not fond of their color scheme. But, the layout is perfect, and perfectly logical, also. Two, or four vertical virtual decks, representing your corresponding controller decks in the same positions and order, with the live vertical waveforms in the center. Correction; the live waveforms are not vertical in Torq. However, if I could design it my way, they would be. If had had a Serato interface similar to that to work with, I'd be very satisfied. As long as I could still see at least a half-dozen library files below, that would be great. The interface could have the rest of my screen. I could always hit the space-bar if I need to see more of the library. Maybe no one else has this problem, but for me, it's hard to correlate left to upper - right to lower, etc... Put everything in the right position and order, and there'll be no more need for band-aids like different deck colors, etc...

#6 Look, I know you people are in business to make money, and I don't have any problem with that. I don't mind at all paying for something I can use, especially if I like the folks I'm dealing with. On the other hand, if you ignore me, put me off, and try to force me into a substandard product, then I'll take my business elsewhere whenever possible. I'm sure that the majority of your customers feel the same way. What I'm saying, is that I'd like to spend some money on some of those ad-ons you are constantly trying to sell us.., but there's no point in me doing that, until you get the basic functions of the software right, which means I'm still stuck with Itch, at this point

#7 I realize that your partner Pioneer has their new SP-1 offering out there to help us owners of older hardware make the transition into the new features of SDJ. However, for many of us, I think the Novation Twitch may be a better and more practical option. I know that the Twitch will work in an unsupported fashion together with Itch and certain other controllers, including mine. Either way we go, we are buying a product bundled with your software. If it is not already supported as a supplemental controller in SDJ, I would like to suggest that you consider making it so.


#8 Something else I'd like to see changed/improved, is the cue-point indicators in Serato software. Maybe if you only have three or four cue-point settings available, colors would be an adequate indication of which one is which, in relation to the cue buttons themselves. However, when you have as many as eight now to keep up with, it is no longer a practical option. Please consider numbered flags, as in Traktor. That is a much better system.


#9 I understand that the spinning hand on the numberless clock-face in Serato represents the speed and position of the (virtual) revolving record. However, the speed and position of the record itself means very little to me. With my V7s, I can already see my records turning. It would be much more relevant, if it represented a new musical bar, everytime it passed the twelve o'clock position. You already have it resetting to that point when it passes a new cue-point, so it shouldn't be that difficult to program in the option of depicting a 'one sweep for every 4 beats' scenario. I.E. twelve o'clock on every new downbeat. It already approaches this exact alignment at around 130 BPM. On tracks without a beatgrid, it could just default back to depicting RPM, as it already does currently. I realize some people would undoubtedly prefer it the old way, and that you already have the little 1-2-3-4 successional blinking blocks, but this is a much simpler, more elegant solution. And personally, I would be able to much better utilize the second option. So, if you could give us the option, I would consider that a welcome improvement.

#10 While I am on this subject; the feature of the sweep hand changing colors to indicate the approach and passing of cue-points, is novel, but completely unusable for me... Please consider an option similar to what Pioneer has provided in the deck windows on their new SZ controller. This is a much better and more usable indicator.

#11 - I guess the following suggestion would only work on V7s, but It should be easy to implement, and (I think) a neat feature: The little up/down arrows that light up red, (supposedly to show the changeover DJ which way to move the speed pot), are completely going to waste. They never turn on, unless a controller has been turned off or unplugged. And I doubt that they have ever been used for their designed purpose. So, why not have them work in conjunction with the "BPM Meter" to indicate which way the pitch needs to be moved to match BPMs, full time. That way we have two (or four) more pretty lights ;) to look at, and one less thing to think about. What do you say..?


#12 - The "TAP" button on my V7s is pretty much useless as intended. I'd like to see an option in setup that would allow the TAP button to be held down to provide access to the other three (of eight) hotcues, via the first three cue buttons. That would be VERY handy for me.



Again, anyone interested in seeing a graphic example of what I've been complaining about, regarding the (IMHO) poorly designed SDJ vertical GUI, may wish to view the screenshots at the following link.

www.flickr.com
DJ Demolition 1:41 AM - 10 June, 2014
Bump
blackavenger 2:33 PM - 14 June, 2014
Quote:
#3 The static waveforms are too short and thin to allow anyone to see the track details. They were barely wide enough in Itch, but these are pencil thin, and need to be fattened up. Also, the cue markers should have their tips resting on the center of the track-line. However, in some SDJ views they are completely lapped over the entire waveform.

#4 Lot's of wasted space in full-screen view. How about making practical use of that area, by allowing us to see all the cues, loops, etc. at once, instead of making us constantly click on different buttons and scroll bars. I'll be glad to post screenshots to illustrate my point, if that will help. Update: www.flickr.com


+1
DJ Demolition 1:13 AM - 26 June, 2014
Bump...
ScullyDJServices 6:54 PM - 4 July, 2014
Agreed
DJ Demolition 2:39 AM - 26 July, 2014
Bump...
DJ Demolition 1:20 AM - 20 August, 2014
Bump!...
DJ Demolition 1:42 AM - 24 October, 2014
Bump... !
DJ Compiler 6:36 AM - 24 October, 2014
I think three bumps in a row might be sign
rony mejia 10:20 PM - 24 October, 2014
I agree with #2 I hope u can see the pic.


O5jKAztJpoE43gpKN8bPJ0sgw/?name=serato+com..png
rony mejia 10:38 PM - 24 October, 2014
DJ Demolition 1:09 AM - 25 October, 2014
Quote:
I agree with #2


Right, Friend.

#2 is my biggest concern also, now that they have finally fixed the instant start issue.
DJ Compiler 1:55 AM - 25 October, 2014
Is there a reason you cant just press minus on the keyboard to zoom out?
rony mejia 2:35 AM - 25 October, 2014
I have my suggestion about that i hope u guys support me. On the next link.

serato.com
DJ Demolition 3:07 AM - 25 October, 2014
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Is there a reason you cant just press minus on the keyboard to zoom out?


Ah... you aren't getting it, are you?

DJ doesn't have the same practical vertical display as Itch, and there are other issues with the new GUI as well.

Rony tries to explain in his linked post above, and/or you can see my own personal display here: www.flickr.com compared to the much inferior DJ interface here: www.flickr.com
rony mejia 4:01 AM - 25 October, 2014
Yes DJ Demolition. This is the display that we want to see on SERATO DJ. 2 or 4 virtual decks and vertical waveforms.



www.flickr.com
DJ Compiler 4:42 AM - 25 October, 2014
Well in number 2 you commented on not being able to see more than two beats in advanced so I thought that would remedy that.
DJ Demolition 12:59 AM - 26 October, 2014
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Well in number 2 you commented on not being able to see more than two beats in advanced so I thought that would remedy that.


No, there's not enough room there where they're trying to display it. Plus it's just awkward for us Itch users anyway, and we shouldn't have to make the adjustment. It should have been included in the software originally.
DJ Compiler 1:50 AM - 26 October, 2014
It remembers it from when you last closed the application so you would only have to adjust it once
DJ Demolition 2:30 PM - 26 October, 2014
Yes, I understand, and I see you are trying to help, but you are missing the whole point.

There is not enough room in the location they've provided, and the layout is all wrong, anyway. It can't just be adjusted.

It needs to be fixed properly, but unfortunately Serato will not provide us with any development tools, so all we can do is complain at them.
DJ Demolition 5:37 AM - 13 November, 2014
Well, okay..! Instant Start is back.

Only eleven things to complain about now. If they'd only fix the GUI, I could probably actually begin to use it in the real world.
blackavenger 12:13 PM - 13 November, 2014
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Only eleven things to complain about now. If they'd only fix the GUI, I could probably actually begin to use it in the real world.

Well, homie, that's not going to happen, so you may as well start getting used to what is available. SeratoDJ's Wave GUI will NEVER look like ITCH's.......all detached like that.
DJ Demolition 4:21 PM - 13 November, 2014
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SeratoDJ's Wave GUI will NEVER look like ITCH's.......all detached like that.

Really..? And how is it that you know this?
blackavenger 8:15 PM - 13 November, 2014
fine, go on living a fantasy that they are going to go backward with their GUI.
DJ Demolition 9:36 PM - 13 November, 2014
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go on living a fantasy that they are going to go backward

I'm more interested in why you hold the notion that it is backward.

Note that it works much more effectively for me.., nor am I the only one requesting this. If you used the vertical view, you'd be complaining also.

It's no skin off their nose to provide that option, and certainly, a feature that works better is not "backward".
Mr Wilks 1:34 AM - 14 November, 2014
Quote:
#7 I realize that your partner Pioneer has their new SP-1 offering out there to help us owners of older hardware make the transition into the new features of SDJ. However, for many of us, I think the Novation Twitch may be a better and more practical option. I know that the Twitch will work in an unsupported fashion together with Itch and certain other controllers, including mine. Either way we go, we are buying a product bundled with your software. If it is not already supported as a supplemental controller in SDJ, I would like to suggest that you consider making it so.


I've wanted this forever.

The Twitch would make a great video controller for me but I've had to buy an X1. It would also make an awesome SP1 style controller with DVS.

If only...
DJ Demolition 1:58 AM - 14 November, 2014
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I've wanted this forever.

Well there are other options available now, so I don't know if my request is quite as pertinent now as it was when I made it. However, I've found that you can run the Twitch together with other controllers. It's unsupported by Serato (because they want you to buy new stuff), but I have done it myself, and there are videos on YouTube explaining how it's done.
Mr Wilks 2:19 AM - 14 November, 2014
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Quote:
I've wanted this forever.

Well there are other options available now, so I don't know if my request is quite as pertinent now as it was when I made it. However, I've found that you can run the Twitch together with other controllers. It's unsupported by Serato (because they want you to buy new stuff), but I have done it myself, and there are videos on YouTube explaining how it's done.


I tried it with an an SL3 and it didn't like it. HID mode with CDJs could work I suppose?

I'll checj that out!
blackavenger 2:29 AM - 14 November, 2014
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I'm more interested in why you hold the notion that it is backward.

I am only saying that Serato aren't going to go back to the way it was in ITCH. Where the waveforms were off to the side, away from the virtual decks. It won't fit with the GUI (SeratoDJ) that is emulating ScratchLIVE. I wasn't saying that it is backward in a derogatory sense.

Quote:
If you used the vertical view, you'd be complaining also.

For six years I used ScratchLIVE in vertical waveform view before I bought my first ITCH controller. I realize that SeratoDJ's vertical view leaves much to be desired, but I've accepted that they aren't going to do shit about it. You're right, it has been requested since they first released SeratoDJ......that should give you a clue as to how high on their priority list it is.
DJ Demolition 5:05 AM - 14 November, 2014
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You're right, it has been requested since they first released SeratoDJ......that should give you a clue as to how high on their priority list it is.

Yes, no doubt. But it takes them forever to do anything at all. Just look at how long it took them to fix something as simple as the instant start function... something that everyone was screaming about. Very slow and inefficient... Not good business.

You get the impression that 10% of their budget goes toward programming and development, while the vast majority goes toward promotion and advertisement. Then too, I hate the way they seem to feel that they always know better than us, regarding what functions/options that we need in the software.

At any rate, I believe my requests are very reasonable, as well as being in their best interest also. With that justification in mind, I intend to keep right on complaining until I get what I want and need. At least this way if I'm not satisfied, I know it's not my fault for not doing my part.
blackavenger 11:08 AM - 14 November, 2014
I just wish the static waveform was as chunky as Traktor's. The moving waveform is less important to me. For that, I just want it to flow smoothly.
DJ Demolition 9:06 PM - 14 November, 2014
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I just wish the static waveform was as chunky as Traktor's. The moving waveform is less important to me. For that, I just want it to flow smoothly.

Exactly. I suppose you noticed that's in my list here as well. And you are right about the jerky wave representation -- something I forgot to mention...

The statics were fatter in Itch... it's almost like they think we're all stupid, and won't notice their calloused, careless, apathetic attitude toward their customers. Just look at how the needle and cue markers are completely lapped over the waveform in DJ vs Itch. Really... how long do you think it would take to fix something that simple.., yet they just ignore it. And I guess we're supposed to take just whatever they hand us, and be happy..?
Heltino 4:57 PM - 15 November, 2014
Demolition,

agreed on the most points.

As former Traktor user I real miss some functions and GUI options.
Even if traktor is total not flexible with it´s GUI (except some track deck details and the mixer showing or hiding) two things are much better:
1. not so much waste of room. why we have a big blank square on the decks and no cover art view? could be perfectly fit into the given room! for me important as it helps me to validate/identify that I have the correct track loaded. (I have several versions of a track, some are named just equal, but are different in the cover art. depending on the remixer...)
2. the static wave forms are indeed ridiculous small and close to be pretty useless.
Hard to see the next cue point is one thing, the other thing is it´s nearly impossible to identify a cool drop in position if a brake is not total clean given and for example just some mids are leaving the track and the highs and the bass is still ongoing.

for me a real missing option is to load an active loop into a sample bank. on the fly.
in traktor it´s perfectly solved: if a loop is active and running -> pressing the button of an empty sample slot will load this loop as a sample AND save it as "sample" in your collection for further use.

last not least I real miss a beat jump option as given in traktor. jump "x" beats ahead in the track in sync and on beat. perfect to skip very long bassline parts or just shorten a break or whatever. simple in use, perfect in outcome.
blackavenger 5:05 PM - 15 November, 2014
Quote:
for me a real missing option is to load an active loop into a sample bank. on the fly.
in traktor it´s perfectly solved: if a loop is active and running -> pressing the button of an empty sample slot will load this loop as a sample AND save it as "sample" in your collection for further use.

Amen!

I have been asking for this functionality ever since the SP-6 was first introduced in ScratchLIVE. To be fair, I have been told by Serato staff that they are working on improving the SP-6. So, that gives me a little hope.
Mr Wilks 5:16 PM - 15 November, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
for me a real missing option is to load an active loop into a sample bank. on the fly.
in traktor it´s perfectly solved: if a loop is active and running -> pressing the button of an empty sample slot will load this loop as a sample AND save it as "sample" in your collection for further use.

Amen!

I have been asking for this functionality ever since the SP-6 was first introduced in ScratchLIVE. To be fair, I have been told by Serato staff that they are working on improving the SP-6. So, that gives me a little hope.


I always thought you could do this? I'm sure I drag the active loop to a deck using the mouse and it plays in that slot?

I need to check it now...

And yeah. It would be great to save the loops as a sample and not just play the loops like it currently does.
They also confirmed an SP-6 overhaul next year and will include more performance things so it will no doubt be on their list.

Quote:
last not least I real miss a beat jump option as given in traktor. jump "x" beats ahead in the track in sync and on beat. perfect to skip very long bassline parts or just shorten a break or whatever. simple in use, perfect in outcome.


Don't worry. This is coming and was confirmed the other day by Logan. He was asking for feedback in how you want to see it work so hop over here serato.com and give him your suggestions.
DJ Demolition 8:10 PM - 15 November, 2014
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I always thought you could do this? I'm sure I drag the active loop to a deck using the mouse and it plays in that slot?

It does work that way, but it would be nice to be able to do it with the push of a button, without having to deal with the mouse.

On the other hand, I've not had very much luck with the sync function between the sampler and the decks. I only use mine for drops and sound effects. Traktor, though, works great. So Serato still has some work to do.
Heltino 9:39 PM - 15 November, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
I always thought you could do this? I'm sure I drag the active loop to a deck using the mouse and it plays in that slot?

It does work that way, but it would be nice to be able to do it with the push of a button, without having to deal with the mouse.

On the other hand, I've not had very much luck with the sync function between the sampler and the decks. I only use mine for drops and sound effects. Traktor, though, works great. So Serato still has some work to do.


exactly the point.
a must have is to do it with the controller. no mouse work at all.
and it must be with a working sync and quantize.

traktor can do it, it works and makes fun.
serato has all needed tools on board already...just make it happen!
DJ Demolition 2:54 AM - 20 November, 2014
Hi all.

Some of you are already aware, but for those who aren't, please be advised that I have a new thread in the SDJ suggested feature section serato.com , which delves into details of features that I and others would like to see added/changed/improved/deleted in SDJ.

I have taken the time to draw an interface that I felt I could be happy working with, and it has already be updated with the valuable suggestions of other contributors. Please have a look, make your own assessment/suggestions, and encourage other professional grade Djs you know to join in likewise.

Fact is, Serato will probably never act on our personal preferences and presentment, but at least we'll be able to see what it would look and feel like, and have a clear picture in our own minds as to what true state-of-the-art professional software should, and could be.

Thanks. DJ Demolition
rony mejia 2:56 AM - 27 November, 2014
If it were facebook i would give a LIKE at every comment of DJ Demolition
A_Jack 4:38 PM - 27 November, 2014
I don't understand why people get so emotional over small UI changes. Do they affect the output - what is coming from the speakers - in any way? It's good to have more options to choose from but Serato has it's own vision with the UI and many people like it compared to other DJ software. Some critique for some of the points made here:

Quote:
Yes, no doubt. But it takes them forever to do anything at all. Just look at how long it took them to fix something as simple as the instant start function... something that everyone was screaming about. Very slow and inefficient... Not good business.


Is this a little harsh? Serato has made very fast progress during 2014 with lots of new features and bug fixes and it seems like there is a lot more to come very soon.

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You get the impression that 10% of their budget goes toward programming and development, while the vast majority goes toward promotion and advertisement.


Don't think that ratio is anywhere near the truth but promotion and advertisement is half of the key to success in this business - just look at the crazy Pioneer product hype.

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Then too, I hate the way they seem to feel that they always know better than us, regarding what functions/options that we need in the software.


Many Serato employees are experienced and very skilled DJs so I have my faith in that they do know what they're doing. Of course it's still good that this forum exists as it benefits highly both the users and the developers and it's always good to have end user feedback.

Quote:
The statics were fatter in Itch... it's almost like they think we're all stupid, and won't notice their calloused, careless, apathetic attitude toward their customers. Just look at how the needle and cue markers are completely lapped over the waveform in DJ vs Itch. Really... how long do you think it would take to fix something that simple.., yet they just ignore it. And I guess we're supposed to take just whatever they hand us, and be happy..?


I agree with having an option to select a bit larger static waveforms from the options menu. But I have to say that honestly I have never had any problems with the static waveforms in SDJ. I can see very clearly where the track intro ends, where the drop starts and where the break starts. What else would you need the static waveform for? Also remember that the moving waveform can be zoomed out very far which should provide the missing visual feedback. I have the latest Traktor installed here also and comparing both the static and moving waveforms together I think that SDJ has a much better waveform representation.

In fact I don't have ANY other problems with the SDJ UI myself except that I think the FX and SP-6 (or whatever it may become) icons are kind of ugly and take more space in the screen than they need to and also the flips, cues and loops could be presented in a better way (like you pointed out).

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which delves into details of features that I and others would like to see added/changed/improved/deleted in SDJ.


How many others of the whole Serato user base?

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I'm more interested in why you hold the notion that it is backward. Note that it works much more effectively for me.., nor am I the only one requesting this. If you used the vertical view, you'd be complaining also. It's no skin off their nose to provide that option, and certainly, a feature that works better is not "backward".


I can't honestly see many people wanting it that way. But if it's optional from the menu then by all means fine by me. In my opinion SDJ UI is in every respect better than ITCH. I can't say I miss anything from ITCH having used it for 3 years.

Quote:
I intend to keep right on complaining until I get what I want and need. At least this way if I'm not satisfied, I know it's not my fault for not doing my part.


It's good to suggest new options and features but better keep it calm and make a suggestion instead of a demand. Many people have been using Serato for many years and have been happy with the UI (compared to competition) so why do you think suddenly DJ Demolition is here to decide for everyone what the future of Serato will look like? Do you also go and buy a Mars bar and complain to Mars Inc. that it should have hazelnuts as it's your preference? Sometimes it's better to just grab a Snickers instead.. There are other options in DJ software.

But you had some good points in the first post like #3, #4, #6 & #9 and I agree with SP-6 needing a total rework, but I'm 100% sure it will come in spring 2015.

Peace
A_Jack 4:56 PM - 27 November, 2014
As a small correction the static waveforms don't bother me as much because I only use the horizontal mode. In other modes the static waveforms are too small (and could be bigger in the horizontal mode also tbh) so fully support DJ Demolition in this one.
DJ Demolition 3:33 AM - 28 November, 2014
Quote:
As a small correction the static waveforms don't bother me as much because I only use the horizontal mode. In other modes the static waveforms are too small (and could be bigger in the horizontal mode also tbh) so fully support DJ Demolition in this one.

Without going through the whole dialog above point by point, I'll just say that like this last item that you've come to agree with me on, I believe the more closely you looked at the others, and the more you considered them, the more you'd be leaning in my favor on most of them if not all.

My ideas are like a song you hear, that at first you really don't like, but then it begins to grow on you to the point that it becomes one of your all time favorites. I know you're familiar, as every DJ has experienced that phenomenon.

These opinions of mine don't just randomly pop into my head, and I'm not an inexperienced novice without any background. I've been either a club or private DJ since 1975, and I know most of the in and outs of this business. Furthermore, I have been intimately familiar with the digital DJing world a lot longer than most people even are aware of it's existence. I was working with a programmer trying to get this going even before Serato and Atomix (VDJ) were. The product was called "Super Sonic", and I still have a copy of it here somewhere. However, he gave up because he felt I was wrong, and there would never be a market for it. It's too late now, of course, but I'm sure he's wished many times since then that he'd listened a little better.

As far as the other software options you suggested; I am a registered user of all the software programs worth owning. I even have Torq and Final Scratch. I was one of Atomix's (Atomix mp3 - VDJ) first customers, and was writing my own code and drawing my own interfaces, way before anyone even knew any software of that kind was even available. I also built my own controllers out of cheap Technics belt drive turntable parts, mouse encoders, keyboard parts, industrial CRTs, and Industrial control panel buttons, switches and lights. My first controller weighed over 150#, but it worked well, looked amazing, and was a real crowd pleaser.

So, yes, I know a lot of people here have no idea what I'm going on about. They don't understand my frustration. They think I'm just making a lot of noise about nothing, because they just haven't been down that road, don't know some of the things I know, and can't see what I see. Trying to get my points across in this forum, I feel like an Ibiza DJ on a gig at a club in the projects, or maybe in a Texas roadhouse. he'd want to play some Tiesto and maybe broaden their horizons a little, but all the while knowing that if he did very much of that, he might not make it out of there alive, much less get paid for the night.

So bottom line, I know most of you laptop guys don't want my help, and that's okay. I'd be happy to leave you to your own devices. If Serato would only do a couple of easy modifications for me, I'd gladly shut up, and leave you all in peace.
rony mejia 10:57 PM - 5 February, 2015
Dj demolition. How is it going. ..... Nothing yet with the left waveforms. I need them i can't get comfortable with SDJ.
DJ Demolition 2:49 AM - 6 February, 2015
I know... I've just about given up on Serato DJ altogether. It won't work with my Twitch at all, and it's constantly giving issues when I try to use it with my V7s.

I've been talking to the people at VDJ lately, and they've actually agreed to work with me on some of this. Some maybe I can make some progress from that angle. I hate to share my ideas with the enemy camp, but I can't wait on Serato for the rest of my life... and the haven't ever promised me anything, anyway.

Have you checked out MixVibes' "Cross" software? It's like a cross between Traktor and Serato. Nice clean, simple interface, and contains just about anything you'd want, for a good price. If you're in a hurry, I'd look them up... I think you'll like what you see, and you can download the free version and play with it as long as you like.