Hi Rjc,

I don't believe there is a way to adjust the beat grids using your HC5000.

Most of the grid edit controls are via the keyboard: serato.com

Regarding your limiter issue, do you use the auto gain feature? Are you positive this is the LIMITER light and not the MIDI light?

It's hard to respond without sounding sarcastic-a red dot flashes beside the word "Limiter' so, yes I am sure it's the limiter. It happens with or without autogain turned on, for every track.

I can't stop it happening as the only gain controls are on the external mixer.

I have the same issue in itch using v7's and an external mixer. Auto gain disabled, headroom @ 0.

Running on windows 7 32bit.

Sorry, it may seem like a silly question, but I have to check.

What is your headroom set to in the ITCH setup Rjc? Can you guys try increasing the headroom to something like 3db or 6db? Perhaps even experiment with a couple of different values.

Has this always happened since you have been using these controllers, or has it only just recently happened with a newer version of ITCH or something?

I just tested it with different headroom settings.

>Headroom at 0 it happens a few times every few songs. I played thru 7 songs and saw it limit 10 or 12 times. And It was never sustained
>Headroom at -3 its on all the time, same for -6 ect.

I haven't had the chance to play with it for all that long yet while running the headroom at 3 or 6. I will a bit later though.

The thing is as you know when running V7's an external mixer is required. And none of the mixer levels are anywhere near max. I also often run a drive rack 260 with a limiter in front of it. That limiter between the mixer and the dr260 never comes on unless I jack the gains on the mixer to make sure its limiting the signal the dr260 gets.

So the question is with auto gain off what exactly is it limiting lol?

The levels within ITCH. Regardless of what mixer/other equipment you are using external to the V7s, this should not affect the limiter in ITCH.

Please let me know what you find with +3db and + 6db settings and beyond.

I guess my question was with auto gain off and the headroom at 0 shouldn't that disable limiting in itch all together? If itch is adding another limiter to the mix with auto gain disabled knowing about would be helpful.


Just ran thru 17 songs using +3db headroom and only saw the limiter when using the echo effect. So setting the headroom to +3db definitely stopped the the limiter light from having its own little disco party.

Setting the headroom @ +6 will most likely have the same outcome. If you still need that info I can do another run a bit later. But I'm guessing that for me anyway it will give the same results. I was kinda hoping Rjc would chime in with his HC5k on his mac setup.

-Could the limiter in itch be responsible for the Echo effect being extremely weak?

ITCH can potentially apply a limiter if the song volume or gain on the mixer is to high. Since the gain on the mixer isn't really part of the equation here I would start to look at the volume level of the song perhaps? Seems pretty odd to me still though.

Can you please a song that ALWAYS engages the limiter when you have auto gain off and headroom at 0? I will try and test the exact same circumstances myself to see what I can find.

Regarding the Echo, generally there has been discussion that isn't as good as it could be, and we aware of it and hoping to improve it in the future. Quite often using an Echo can increase the gain and therefore as a result engage the limiter sometimes, but the limiter isn't really going to hinder the effect as such, it will "curb" the overall output rather.

Thanks for doing those tests though, yeah would be nice to hear how it works for you with +6db. You manage to try different headroom settings out Rjc?

Normally I don't mess with or even look at the default song volume or db. I'm still used to 1200's where you're pretty much stuck checking cue levels by flipping the cue and master back and fourth and normalization really isn't an option. I'm also pretty used to looking down at a 4 channel mixer and seeing rather extreme differences in the volume's of each channel. Heck my main mixer doesn't even have a cue level meter. Ears trump meters imo.

Anyway Martin, after you mentioned the default song volume/db I grabbed mp3gain and tossed in then analyzed the 2 hard hitting electro house sets I've been working on. The lowest db was 97.8, average was 98.6 - 98.9 and several were 99.1 and 99.3, which as you know is very high. When ripping my vinyl collection I set the caps at low-94.0 and high-95db and even that I considered pretty loud.

So for reference I analyzed a few trance sets from long ago. None were anywhere near even 97, much less 99 lol. So I ran one of the trance sets in itch @ 0 headroom and auto gain disabled and never saw the limiter once.

-Whats funny is when working on a set I only play the tracks in the set I'm working on. So if most of the tracks are equally louder than the average I would never notice it unless I switched to another more normal db set and suddenly found the need to turn up the mixer main volume - a lot...

So it seems my issues were track volume/db related. I'm now doing backups of these electro house sets and experimenting with different db settings via mp3gain then in itch.

For Rjc:
I used mp3gain 1.2.5 On windows to check my files. >Not "Mp3Gain PRO" as that makes permanent changes to your music files.
Mp3gain Version 1.2.5
mp3gain.sourceforge.net
I don't run mac but I'm sure others can give you info regarding a track db checking program for mac.

Additional info for others - my setup:
Itch 2.2 on windows 7 32bit@ fully updated + sp1 - Very fresh install of both.
2 v7's
External mixer > hardware limiter > dsp > amps
Note: Neither the external limiter nor the driverack picked up the clipping that itch was limiting.

If you're not using itch's auto gain a quick fix would be what Martin recommended. Use +3db headroom or +6db if you're really having issues. Personally I would rather leave it at 0 and fix the rather absurd 99db tracks.

Hmmm interesting discovery there! Do you think I could still have one of your 99db files to test with?

I cant say I have come across a track like that before in my collection, but then again I don't have an extensive collection of hard electro, nor have I gone through lots of my music with the V7s or the HC5000 to notice it before maybe.

I like the V7s, they are a good versatile ITCH controller that can be paired up with your favorite mixer, but perhaps this is one of those scenarios where the V7s are kinda limited by their lack of gain knobs - as you say, ears trump meters, and so with other ITCH controllers you have the capability to adjust the gain using your ears, before the limiter engages.

I appreciate you taking the time to write up all that, hopefully it helps out Rjc also!