Scratch Live Crash when drag and drop files to crates / prepare. Online and Off.

alexanderadams 12:25 PM - 27 December, 2011

Alright, I have one week off to finally sit down and figure out whats going on here. Ive had previous posts and chimed in on other posts with similar problems but just now having the chance to try and fix mine. Ive had this problem on 2 different laptops which i would think its file related. Newest laptop:
Asus g74sx-a1
i7 processor
16gb ram
2 - 1tb hard drives
3 - partitions
Problem - Serato Scrach Live crashes when i drag and drop tracks from the library window to the crates window, prepare window, and even when i drag and drop to the player itself. It does not crash when i use shift+left/right or ctrl+P.
I've renamed main serato folder, deleted database files. One thing i did notice is that when i imported one partition and not the other (tried both ways multiple times) then there were little or no issues. But attempting to load the other caused it not to work.
Side note - I also have an NS7 and have never been able to run itch 2.0 with database imported. Runs fine with one partition or the other loaded, but will not work with entire database imported. Will not even load. But Serato Scratch loads and works, just crashes when i drag and drop tracks.
I have had to do entire sets forcing myself not to use prepare window, never drag or drop a track and pray it doesnt crash. TOO STRESSFUL!! LoL. So what do i need to do to resolve this issue? Maybe there was and answer to this already posted?

Zach S 10:15 PM - 27 December, 2011

So your still having this issue when using 2.3.3?

Sounds like a bug that was present in 2.3.1.

RafaelM 10:16 PM - 27 December, 2011

It also sounds like issues with your external HD and the partitions you have set up. Might be better to not have partitions or make it so you only play out of one partition and not various ones.

Have you tried not using the external HDs? Do you still get the issue?

Have you tried using another external HD that you have not partitioned?

alexanderadams 12:46 AM - 28 December, 2011

Well my laptop has 2 hard drive bays. Its a 17 inch notebook. It would really suck if i have to put all my music on 1 external 2tb and tote that around just so it doesnt crash all the time.
Yes i am still having issues with 2.3.3. What kind of file data do you need to take a look at to possibly see what is causing the error?

DJ-DeReS 4:04 PM - 28 December, 2011

Hey Alexanderadams,

I am using an ASUS G53SW-A1 Series laptop, the smaller borther to your own.

2nd generation Sandy bridge Core i7
8 gigs memory
750 gig internal HD ( OS ONLY )
2 TB external ( all music )

And i had similar issues, like you are currently having.

My solution was

1.NOT to use the aserato backup feature,. as when i backed up, eveytime after that i had,i had issues with dragging and dropping tracks to virtual players, dragging folders/tracks to be analyuzed and such.

2.unistalling intel rapid storgage technology managment ( RST ), as it install an application with it, and crashed my computer

There are other minor tweaks i did as well.......but the above two were biggies.

Let me know if any of those help

RafaelM 4:51 PM - 28 December, 2011

Scratch Live generates a crash report via the Windows OS when it crashes. Thats what you would want to upload.

In this case im not sure if that will help us much. It seems your issue is due to issues with writing to the Serato folders. Each partition has a Serato folder (if you have imported Music from that partition) and this could be the issue here.

Typically its ok to use multiple drives, but when you mix music from these multiple drives into the same crates, this can cause issues since its having to write info to multiple Serato folders on exit/import etc.

Did anything that DJ-DeReS recommend work or help in anyway?

and thanks BTW DJ-DeReS!

alexanderadams 7:54 PM - 28 December, 2011

Dj Deres, thanks for the advice. I will look into it. I'll reload and try not using the back up feature. However, i have the same problems on my other laptop. An acer Aspire 7720. It also has 2 hd bays and was partitioned the same way which was the similarity between the two computers besides files. It only had 4 gb of ram and a duo processor. After trying all the stuff before, i just figured i needed a bigger badder laptop. Well that didnt help. But i got a new laptop out of the deal tho.

alexanderadams 7:56 PM - 28 December, 2011

DeRes, did you have the issues with all your music on one drive externally?

alexanderadams 8:03 PM - 28 December, 2011

RafaelM, writing to multiple folders sounds about right. I can see where that may cause problems. Unless i went through every folder and checked the location of the file to make sure that its crate is located on its drive, that would be a nightmare. If this is the reason, has there been anyone looking into similar issues or possibly a way around it? I just find it hard to believe there are rare cases of it messing up like this or people set up similar to mine.

DJ-DeReS 8:07 PM - 28 December, 2011

Hey Alexanderadams,

I also had a laptop prior to the ASUS bad boy! I had a Gateway, with an core i3, with 8 gigs of ram, with an 640 gig internal drive.....same issues....and my music has been on my external 2 TB hd since the start. I do have a LARGE archive though.....over 100,000 tracks.

My rig is currently running smooth, currently running SSL 2.3.1, No issues with my external currently

I have a Lacie 2 TB external, 7200 RPM , 64MB Cache drive

Hope this helps out.

alexanderadams 8:24 PM - 28 December, 2011

Im going to reload library and try without using what you mentioned. Thanks again. Hopefully works well.

RafaelM 8:30 PM - 28 December, 2011

Yes Serato has been looking into the issues with partitions and multiple Serato folders for some time now. For now its recommended to keep the files in the drives in their own crates and not mix them together. This helps reduce issues.

Let us know your findings with the suggestions above.

DJ-DeReS 8:36 PM - 28 December, 2011

And on a side note......When i received my ROG laptop, i stripped most if not ALL the ASUS bloat ware sofware that came with it. Only kept on the "essential" drivers........

alexanderadams 5:19 PM - 1 January, 2012

Its not looking like its helping. Even after reloading library and skipping the back up it still crashes. Couple of thoughts. Does it have anything to do with writing to the tag because i see that pop up every time a file is accessed? And then the fact that it crashes when doing things other than just moving to the crates, like moving to prepare window or dragging over to play. Pretty much anytime i click and drag anything. Would make me think that it might not be tied to writing to the crate files. Pretty Frustrating.

RafaelM 4:39 PM - 3 January, 2012

Anything could be causing it to crash: corrupt files, tag issues, metadata issues etc.

If you really want to clear Scratch Live and reload the Library, then you should Delete or remove the Serato folders and the Scratch Live Program will be completely empty. This will get rid of any previous issues with the Serato folders and their contents. The program will build new Serato folders once you start importing Music again.

alexanderadams 1:23 AM - 5 January, 2012

Okay just tried that. Cleared every thing and deleted the serato folders from every drive. Loaded all the music with no issues. I didnt import any crates or files from old serato folders. Just music from 2 drives. I created a single folder to drag some tracks into it. And as soon as i clicked, and began to drag it over before i even reached the folder serato crashed. It's never the same file, it crashes on either drive. It does this on multiple computers. It has to be my library or set up or something. Ive no idea where to start....

alexanderadams 1:27 AM - 5 January, 2012

Just to try and get more info... When i loaded just the music... Itch 1.7 worked. Decided to try and load 2.0.1 and itch 2.0.1 would not even load with library loaded. These 2 issues i think have to be related some how?

RafaelM 6:18 PM - 5 January, 2012

Were you dragging files from both drives into the same crate?

When you say this problem happens on multiple computers, you are using the same external HD when this happens right?

Do you have another external you can test with? One that isnt partitioned?

alexanderadams 9:25 PM - 7 January, 2012

All i did was click in drag. I didnt even make it across the screen to the crate before it crashed. It happened on the first song i clicked on.
I am not using an external drive usb drive. I have 2 1tb hard drives in my computer. Main drive has 2 partitions. 1 for windows, 1 for music. The second hard drive is only music.
Yes it happens on multiple computers, none of the drives used in the computers are the same. Only thing similar is the music files.
I can try and find a large enough external to use.

RafaelM 8:56 PM - 9 January, 2012

See if importing from an external causes the same crash.

If you have used other computers with the same Music, how did you get that Music onto the other computers> Did you copy the Music files to the other computers internal HD? Or did you connect an external and import into Scratch Live directly from there?

Sounds like corrupt files to me, especially if you have tried multiple computers and used their internal drives.

alexanderadams 1:33 AM - 11 January, 2012

I cloned the hard drives. they all are western digital. used a docking station to clone the smaller ones to the larger drives and then placed them into the computer.

alexanderadams 1:38 AM - 11 January, 2012

If there are corrupt ones how do i find out which ones they are? Can the crash file of sort identify what is causing it?
*Just a side note if this may be the reason itch 2.0 does not load for me*= when i have either or partition completely loaded, itch 2.0 works. but when i try to load both at the same time it does not work. I read something about a paging file or memory issues in another post but didnt follow exactly what was said. Is that some sort of relation to scratch since they use the same files?

alexanderadams 1:39 AM - 11 January, 2012

im going to try and load everything on one drive and see what happens when i have a chance soon

RafaelM 6:47 PM - 11 January, 2012

Quote:

I cloned the hard drives. they all are western digital. used a docking station to clone the smaller ones to the larger drives and then placed them into the computer.

Cloning Hard Drives also Clones the Problems.

A better test would be to simply import Files into Scratch Live, without any cloning going on. Simply copy the files to the drive and import.

The only way to detect Corrupt Files is by Analyzing them. Sometimes files are so corrupt that you cant even import them into Scratch Live because they will cause a crash (I believe this may be what you are experiencing, unless theres an issue with your drives). When files are this corrupt, the only way to detect them is by using the Process of Elimination to track down which file being imported is causing it to crash/have issues.

Not really sure about the iTch thing as we do not support iTch here.

alexanderadams 10:55 PM - 11 January, 2012

Understand cloning drives would possibly clone a problem. But when you dont know what the problem is.... My solo 1tb partition was the only one completely cloned. But it was only the music files. I only cloned the Operating system on the other, and copied the music to the 3rd partition from an external.None were Serato files. What would be the difference if i were to take the files and transfer them to and external? Still the same files except only reading from one single external partition. Will try tho.
i Tried to click and drag a brand new file i made for the SP6 from sp6 sampler to the track window above it and play it. it crashed also. So it not only does it when pulling from the library window or tracks previously imported.
Understand you dont support itch, BUT if the problems are related and your itch counterparts have seen what i described and fixed it could it possibly fix my scratch problem. Just seeing if you had touched base with them on it.
Thanks for the support. Really trying to get this to work.

RafaelM 11:15 PM - 11 January, 2012

I really think you just need to load some songs to an empty drive. A normal drive that does not have various partitions. Lets say 5 songs, then import them into Scratch Live and see what happens. Its only a test and if they import without any issues, it may be your drive causing issues.

Can you give this a go so we can see what happens?

**The Partitions can be causing an issue because each one will have a Serato folder and they could be conflicting with eachother.

alexanderadams 9:22 PM - 14 January, 2012

When using 2 internal drives , one database file is 52 mb and the other is 63 mb with all music loaded.
Are there known issues with large database files?
I tried putting all music on one drive and when i had everything imported. Just music no crates, same results. Clicked and dragged some music around. Made some new random crates, and it crashed randomly numerous different times. When dragging to different places all over screen. Prepare window, crates, decks, didnt even make it across the screen sometimes.

alexanderadams 9:28 PM - 14 January, 2012

I filed help request with itch also fyi because that program doesnt work either. I believe the issues i have with itch and scratch are related. Itch wouldnt load with 3/4 of the inventory but SSL worked with that much loaded. It took almost the entire library for SSL to show issues and my library is only going to get larger from this point. (i loaded folder by folder, then removed and loaded alternately to verify it happened with all files and were not corrupt files)

RafaelM 6:17 PM - 16 January, 2012

Quote:

Are there known issues with large database files?

Not that we know of.

It def. could be iTch and Scratch Live related. Unfortunatley we dont write the software so I wouldnt be able to tell what is conflicting. We could try renaming your Scratch Live folder so the program ignores them, then have you simply import files into crates and see what happens.

Doing this would be like importing into Scratch Live the very first time. The Serato folders will be new.

Would you like to do this?

alexanderadams 6:44 PM - 16 January, 2012

Here's what i did.... I took the serato folders and the backup ,name added old to them, and then proceeded to add music to scratch one music folder at a time alternating hard drives internally thus creating new serato folders. Once i had my test results (loading almost entire library for problems. Did this 3 times with different folders and order to rule out corrupt files) Then i Deleted the serato folders that i had just created and did the same thing with an external drive that had all my music on it. I did this without importing or building any new crates and have the same drag, drop, and crash problems. Therefore i am sure its not crate related.

RafaelM 7:46 PM - 16 January, 2012

Alright, sounds like a good test. Lets get Serato involved here to see if it may be iTch or SSL related.

Hold tight.

alexanderadams 1:24 AM - 17 January, 2012

Holding on *Thumbs up*

alexanderadams 3:09 PM - 18 January, 2012

Any luck here?

RafaelM 6:13 PM - 18 January, 2012

We are in the middle of preparing for a huge show we have here in the US. Alot of the Serato guys are either in a plane or already at the show. So give em a little time and they should be able to get on this ASAP.

Its just a hectic time right now, we appreciate your patience tho!

alexanderadams 6:28 PM - 18 January, 2012

AHHHHHHHH... no worries, Just wondering. NAMM, cool am lookin fwd to all the new toys too.

RafaelM 6:35 PM - 18 January, 2012

Tomorrow 10am the bombs drop! Add our FB Page and stay updated first!

www.facebook.com!/OfficialRaneDJ

alexanderadams 6:39 PM - 18 January, 2012

already on it! :-)

RafaelM 6:41 PM - 18 January, 2012

Nice!!

alexanderadams 11:58 PM - 28 January, 2012

Anyone had a chance to scoop this one up yet?

Samuel S 7:44 PM - 31 January, 2012

Hey Alexander,

Just to recap the issue:

- You are having crashes when importing files?
- Does this happen with the same files or any file you try and import?
- Does the crash only happen when you import files or does it happen when playing tracks or loading them to the decks?

Sorry for the slow reply and the list of questions. I just need to get a fresh look at this :)

Sam.

alexanderadams 5:04 PM - 3 February, 2012

No, there are no issues when importing files.
The crash only happens randomly when i attempt to click and drag a song to any portion of the screen. Crates, sample player, song decks, and sometimes when i click and drag the song i dont make it out of the library window before it crashes.
When utilizing shift left and shift right / or ctrl P there are no issues.
I am forced to play sets without clicking and dragging anything all why hoping there are no issues. Been going strong for a couple of months now no crashes. This happens in online and offline mode.

Samuel S 2:59 AM - 7 February, 2012

I see, thats very strange! Does this happen in any version you have used or has it only started happening after a specific update?

It sounds like it is a memory issue though from speaking to the development team. Can you let me know if this spikes in the task manager at all when you try dragging a file?

Sam.

alexanderadams 12:38 PM - 7 February, 2012

Im going to go back and download previous versions of scratch and try them out. See if possibly there is a break somewhere.

The memory sits at 3.7 while in scratch and is stable through the entire crash. The hard/faults per second is only thing i saw spike. It does this when loading initially also. That has some sort of relation to memory i think?

alexanderadams 6:07 AM - 12 February, 2012

Before changing anything. i took 2.3.1 dragged a few items around and it crashed. Just to verify problem was still there. Installed 2.2 , rebooted and after about half hour of trying havnt had a crash yet. Any major differences there with 2.3 and 2.2?

Samuel S 9:27 PM - 12 February, 2012

There shouldn't necessarily have been any changes that would affect this as it should be a memory issue. Can you let me know how big your library is?

Sam.

alexanderadams 9:56 PM - 12 February, 2012

536 gb + 480 gb. Each one is on a separate 1tb internal HD.
the database v2 files are 63mb and 50mb
also have my local partition which is just normal serato files. nothing extra.

Samuel S 10:08 PM - 12 February, 2012

As a test, could you try remove you external drives, rename the _Serato_ folder to _Serato_old so a new library is created, add a couple of files and then let me know if you still get the crash?

Sam.

alexanderadams 10:18 PM - 12 February, 2012

I dont have external drives. They are internal to the laptop. So i just named the serato folders old and did not import any music from them.
I have already done that. With a few files from the local drive there were no issues.
Then began to load rest of library. Results were that i got up to about 3/4 of all the files loaded before scratch began to have issues. With a small database scratch works as advertised. Just when trying to load all music, it begins to have issues.

Samuel S 10:58 PM - 12 February, 2012

This is a memory issue and it looks like with your large library you are hitting the memory ceiling currently in Scratch Live which is causing the crash. There isn't much we can do about this unfortunately until we can make some quite large changes to the way our database and memory is handled within the operating system. As of now though, the only workaround I could suggest would be to try and cut your library down a bit.

Sam.

alexanderadams 7:18 AM - 13 February, 2012

Well i havnt had an issue with 2.2 yet. Maybe that will keep up. And yes i have had to reduce the size, and just ensure i dont click and drag anything when playing. I think i am forever scarred about clicking and dragging. Even when i dont use serato and click in drag in other programs i am hesitant now hoping they wont crash. But hopefully you guys can get that arranged to work soon. It sucks having to pick and choose which songs to load when doing different types of sets. Just having differnt database files is and idea for different sets, but that sounds like it would be a mess real quick LoL

alexanderadams 8:07 PM - 28 February, 2012

nvmd, had an issue. same results so. that didnt work as hoped. still stuck as before.
would this issue occur if i used a mac?

Samuel S 9:16 PM - 28 February, 2012

The library size problems are not specific to just PC, it will be similar on a Mac as the operating system still allocates a set amount of RAM to the software and the library gets loaded to this.

DJ-DeReS 11:31 PM - 28 February, 2012

Some food for thought guys,

Since I was having similar issues as Alexanderadams, And my master archive was LARGE. WELL Over 1 TB of music, and arouind 160,000 tracks.

I have started sifting through my archive, deleteing useless tracks. I know it's time consuming and tedious, but i am now sitting under 500 GB, and under 70,000 tracks. And i have not experiences majors issues with dragging and dropping tracks into the virtual decks.

Serato SL runs smoother and faster, my laptop runs like a champ.

My ram usage still sits aroung the 2.15 GB usage with SL loaded and running.

I do believe the larger archives are an issues with SL, rather than the laptop, as Myself and Alexanderadams have rocketship laptops. Shrinking our archives is the ideal way to go Alesxanderadams.

Just my 2 cents here

Also looking at upgrading my laptop with a 120 Gig SSD, and 16 gigs of ram. And dumping my external 2 TB drive, and using a 750 gig internal instead for all my music

DJRAWGER 6:13 AM - 1 March, 2012

I have the same identical problem, it's happened in the past with other labp tops. I thought that when I bought my new one the problem would disappear but I was wrong. I have approximately a 200.000 song library by necessity. I DJ both Spanish and English. I had two drives (Spanish & English) both external. To try to solve the problem, I purchased (2 months ago) a laptop with 8 gigs of ram, with i7 processor rated in the top 40 in the industry and 1 TB HD (500 + 500) which are empty. I also purchased a 2 TB external HD 7200 RPM with a 3.0 base. I still have the same problem. I've been here for a half hour trying to drag and drop new music and experiencing crash after crash after crash. some folders contain no more than 40 songs. I dont get it. I've tried most of everything everyone has asked me to try. time for a solution, I'm thinking of saving all the music, deleting all serato files, uninstalling serato, reinstalling, and hoping the problem is solved. however to do so I need to PURCHASE $$$ another drive to back up my library, there has to be better way. Thanks

6:00 AM, 15 Mar 2012

This help request has been closed due to inactivity.

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Scratch Live Crash when drag and drop files to crates / prepare. Online and Off.

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