you will be pushing it with the PRX... maybe with 2 subs. I would recommend this at the very LEAST. Should be able rent it for ~$150 with amps from your local shop.

2 x dual 15" tops with a 3" horn
2 x dual 18" subs

+1 UHaul Truck

Thats what i rent for gyms plus my booths its plenty

yup, even 2 x 12' tops will work you. when i do a mobile like that its exactly what i use.

2x yorkville nx55p
2x yorkville ls180p

its plenty.

Did you mean Yorkville LS801p?

... and yep, I'd say they are plenty for a gym with 500 kids.

yes, aha, my mistake.

@bigdookie@ninos if money was no object

Yorkville
Nx 750 or the 800 watt top i forget the number e15 or something
n 2 ls800s

All you would need is QSC 10" speakers & 2 QSC Ksubs (dual 12" subs each) and it will provide enough boom. Trust me I have QSC 10" speakers and 1 ksub and It's working fine for small to medium gigs of 150. If you are already using QSC amps then look into their speakers they are incredible!! And it is very mobile and light equipment. The ksub only weighs 26 pnds and the speakers are very light. Good luck!

Where are you getting your info from?

The K-Sub weighs 74 lbs and one/two/three are not adequate for a gym with 500 kids. Sure, you'll hear the music as you will with any setup but for proper sound re-enforcement playing today's over compressed and bass-heavy music, he should consider a sub with some nuts... JBL PRX618xlf's, QSC HPR181i's or as Ninos mentioned, the almighty Yorkville LS801p.

You've got an efficient system that's highly portable but you really should try to hear the LS801p in comparison to your K-sub. Your highly touted opinions of them will forever change...

@ BigDookie: If you already have some PRX615's... consider getting the PRX618xlf... not the s-model. Two of them would be much better. If you want to buy the absolute best bang-for-the-buck sub and not ever have to worry about enough bass for gigs again... get the Yorkville LS801p or start looking at some of the passive sub varieties.

AS of right now i am rocking MAckie 450 tops, Mackie 1501 subs and Yorkville LS801PB's and i am about to pick up a pair of Yorkville EF500PB's thoes are the 800 watt tops your talking about. As for something like this gig your talking about. if it were me doing the gig i would bring the LS801PB's and 4 Mackie tops just because i dont have the EF500PB's yet.

them yorkvilles sure do weight alot -.-

+1 they suck wen it comes to that

Whole-Heartedly Seconded

my bad it is 74 pnds but picking it up from the handles it def doesn't feel that heavy. I don't know where i got 26 from lol..im going to be doing a highschool dance in a cafeteria shortly and im using my system the 2 QSC 10's & the Ksub (12" dual) for about 150 kids i believe it should do fine. I'll have the ksub in the middle and the two tops on stands off to my far left & right i think it'll perform fine. I usually tilt the sub upward with the wheels to the back however the wheels vibrate and make a bit of noise when the sub is pushed to hard but i think it's just me that can really hear it as it's next to me i went out on the floor and couldn't really hear the wheels rattling but deep bass coming out.

^ 10" speakers with a 1.75" HF driver is not enough for 500 people. period. watts doesn't matter at this point....

There is a HUGE difference in playing a gig for 150 people and 500 people. 2 QSC 10's and a Ksub will not cut it for 500 people.

I luv all my Yorkville stuff, but that shit IS heavy!

speakers on sticks dont cut it for that "BIG" sound

You need some Function1 in that place ;)

how would you feel if a dj came in setting these up? lol
www.americanmusical.com

i know "of" a dj who uses them for pretty big events. ive never heard it, but if this guy is using them and still getting gigs... they must be decent. right...?

not that im considering them loL!

but thanks for all the info. i still havnt decided on what to get yet. its looking like it will cost me $5k for a new system, but i beleive if i nail this event, i will have plenty more at the school.

Bose Placebo Effect is now in play.

Bose jokes aside, I saw those used for a conference about a month ago and found them in Guitar Center as well. For speaking arrangements, they sounded pretty good. But I honestly have serious doubts regarding their performance in regards to actually running a gig.

the other DJ at my old residency used these as moniters

I have one coming up and am going to use 2 - 4 QSC K 12's and 2 18" subs. We only have 1 QSC 18" sub so I am going to rent a Yorky 18" That should be plenty of power. 350-400 kids.

I have been to a few weddings where they use the bose, i agree that they sound great for speaking and dinner music, but when the volume goes up, it just sounds like something is missing, also personally i like seeing the speakers, hell we all paid enough for them... its extra douchy to have your little cd stand and to skinny speakers, you wonder why anyone would pay money for that...

Hey when you guys are saving 2 x dual 15 do you mean just 2 dual 15 speakers and 2 18' subs ? Or do you mean 4 dual 15 speakers and 4 subs?

Do you use a booth speaker as well?

Great for weddings and PA systems, It didnt sound to good to me in a large room playing dance music.

When I have something large like that. I just rent. There is a company here that will deliver setup 2 Double 18 JBL subs with 4 15" tops (All powered). they stay until its over and take their stuff with them at the end of the night. They only charge $125. They can also setup a light show also for $75 more. I try not to do to many extremly large parties over 300 folks. I try to keep it within the limits of my system.

Ok so what about 2 QSC K12's and 2 KW 181's for the 500 people party? Could that work? Gaffle?

no. that's enough for maybe 200 and that's pushing it

I'd say to at least add a 3rd sub and really elevate the K12's above everybody's head choosing the tilted angle pole mount if necessary. Have the K12's on sticks and the subs clustered in the middle for additional dB gains. If having 3 subs is too much money, cluster the 2 subs together with the tops on sticks. Clustering gives added bass response as opposed to 1 sub per side.

You think that's only strong enough for 200? I think it could handle that size easily bro. I'm looking at the bigger events (proms, formals) because there are a ton of schools in my neighborhood... 2 KW 181's aren't enough to rock a gym? Remember Gaffle I'm a 1 man show, LOL... Although I am working on expanding my network of dj's...

I think 2 KW181's and 2 K12 tops would nicely work with 200... maybe up to 300 but you should cluster the subs.

500 highschoolers in a gym with today's music... heck no. Sure, it'll play but you'll find yourself red-lighting all night trying to get the most volume and you'll find the kids very close to the subs because the bass is not gonna reach very far. Those 250 bodies directly in front of the subs will soak up the sound and the remaining 250 noise makers towards the back of the gym will gets nothing. Now 2 Yorkville 801PB's and 2 QSC K12's... you're straight. You'll be red-lighting the K12's trying to keep up with the Yorks, LOL.

Ask PDidy about them 801P's.

NO you need 3" horns as a MINIMUM for this amount of people (aka "waterbags"). If all 500 people were silent it would work, but I'm pretty sure a few people will be talking...

Ok so what about the 2 K12's, 2 K8's and 2 KW181's?

^^^

Using a combination of speakers with different dispersion patterns will result in weird phase issues and cancellations. 2 single 28" subs is not nearly enough either. I would want a minimum of four 18" drivers to move enough air.

People = waterbags = sound absorption, especially bass...

You are seriously better off just renting a real PA for $150.

*2 single 18" subs

Just trying to see what the requirements are if/when I try to venture out into that arena. I've been fascinated by the high school party ever since we had 1580 KDAY dj's come up to our high school for the lunch dances, theme parties, etc... Just want to see what was needed to make a good presentation. Appreciate this info...

I just think if you want the music to sound good and not be pushing your speakers too much all night....go with 4 k12s and something like 2 dual 18 boxes or just 3-4 18 subs

whats the diff in 2 18" subs & 2 15" vs 2 18" subs and 2 12"?

Power handling and the amount of air being moved. An 18" speaker will move more air than a 15" speaker, as well as handle more power (usually)

Just got off the phone with my local GC... Can get the KW181 for $1107+ tax... But I haven't heard it yet. I definitely want to hear $1200 before it flies out of my wallet...

They have a 15% off President's day sale coming up from the 18th-21st on any purchase $299 or more. That's probably what you're getting. THere's a coupon in the mail for it if you're on their mailing list.

what makes you go for the kw? damn things are like $300 more each than a prx. i'm trying to wrap my head around that lol

I agree 100%
For example, this is the system I use for 500 kids in a gym. 4 tops, 4 subs. For 250 kids just cut in half.
i26.photobucket.com

Now if only you had a tablecloth for that Dj table... Hide them wires bro, lol... Id love to hear those subs in action... Looks mad impressive...

Because I have all QSC gear currently and do not want to mismatch my gear again. I had mackies, qsc's, and yorks... It wasn't a clean look IMO...

Looks about right.

Here is another example of proper sound reinforcement for a gig of that size. This system will work well for 1000 kids in a gym (800 for me). The tops are 4 x jbl srx722s (dual 12s) , subs are 8 x jbl srx718. Cut this system in half an you're good for 500.
i26.photobucket.com
Most djs are not equipped to properly handle this level of sound. A wedding djs sound system will NOT cut it here and will most likely lead to blown drivers, speaker repairs and loss of profits. So if you're not ready, just rent and save.

Damn! What do you use to move all of that from venue to venue?

that will fit easily in a 12ft cargo van wit room to spear.

what the hell was you djing that you needed all that?

Gotta think big BigDookie... think BiG!

Always think BIG - dont want to be undergunned

+1, until you do a gig with 800 people in a gym you dont realize how much sound you really need. Thats a sick system right there.

I think it also depends on how big the room is. I guess gym's are pretty standard in size (though its been a loooong time since i've been in one), give or take. But more in general, a smaller room with a lower ceiling requires much less sound reinforcement. Of course what the ceiling and walls are made up of also factor in.

-----

I do have a question for everyone: I'd like to know more about clustering subs. What is the qualitative difference of clustering 2 subs together vs having them 10 or 20 ft apart? I mean, is there a noticeable dB difference to the ear? And is it more noticeable in an empty room vs 200-500 people? I've done clustered setups on a large scale, but never really thought about it when using 2 subs and 2-4 tops for smaller gigs (outdoor or large high ceiling rooms mostly)

I could never understand that...well, actually I could, but I personally LOVE to see loads of wires and whatnot spread around...

I've never really been concerned about "exposed" wires, and 15 minutes into any set that I do, the customer has forgotten ALL about it...

But I see your point...

For any outdoor event wires are fine. I'm generally pretty anal [nm] about wires and such, but only really care when I'm indoors and there is a theme (i.e. corporate event, wedding, etc).

what kind and how many AMPS and DSP are you using to power that system?
how many circuits do you need?

I can see hes running it with 2 honda 3000 watt generators which puts out around 50 amps together.....

I would say prob 3 circuits(20 amp)

This is not my system but i believe its 6 qsc amps, 2 DBX 260 DRIVERACK and max of 6 x 15amp circuits were used to power this system.

Just revisiting this thread for someone who may reply faster than opening a new case.

I've been using a pair of EVZLX12p and pair of JBL PRX715XLF for weddings (serving up to two conference rooms/halls). I was wondering if I could use the same setup for a school auditorium/cafe type of venue. Size-wise they're about the same as the 2 conference rooms, but have higher ceilings. So it's like half of the gym. It's for about 500 students.

Should I cascade another pair of 12s for the tops and another pair of 15s for the subs? or should i pair them with 15s on top and 18s on subs? or should i be ok with existing? It's my first time doing a school event.

Thank you all!

Depends on what type of service you want to provide. Do you want to just be "OK" or do you want to be great and leave a lasting impression ?

i guess you're voting for add'l 15s and 18s (instead of the 12s+15s)? i asked a simple question hoping to get a straight answer based on past experiences. :)

Actually its not a simple question, there's a lot of variables, expectations and details we have not discussed yet. So my 1st question was just gauging your direction in order to give you a more informed recommendation :)

Noted. I'm torn between buying vs renting. If the additional 15s+18s would sound professionally better than adding 12s+15s, then I would rent because so far this is my first "school event". I don't know if I will have more gigs like this and even there are financing terms on buying speakers today, I'm a bit hesitant. Maybe next year I'll start investing esp if I'm able to lock up a contract to do concert shows/outdoors.

Also, have you ever set your knobs more than halfway point? I never did bec I'm afraid it might blow up on me :) So the specs to me is kinda useless because I don't really maximize them. I would definitely play hip-hop/trap in the school event, so I probably need to add subs. Unlike in weddings, it's mostly pop/top40 with a bit of hip-hop and country.

Smart Money will always rent vs buy for high dollar items used in "one off" events.

And if you think you may begin to take on more events of this nature, then just look at the rental for this event as a "test drive" of a potential future system purchase to handle sound on this scale.

Either way, you are going to need massive sound (particularly bass) for feeding 500 kids hip hop and trap in a large space.

Great advice, thank you very much. I just reserved QSC 15s and 18s. We'll see how it goes.

Good plan. You could always use your ZLX speakers as back fill, don't remember if they have delay built into the DSP.
The ZLX cabinets sound pretty good but do not get terribly loud. They would be swallowed up in a big room by themselves and you would probably overdrive them to make it loud enough.

Is there really any other way to hit the back of the room without using line arrays? I've been doing proms and such all season with my RCF 735 tops and sub and they are very loud and do the job, but I can't help to want the sound to really project to the back of the crowd. With a crowd the sound will die out after a certain distance. Should I just sell everything and get line arrays?

Can you run smaller speakers in the back of the room?

Satellites speakers are an option but if he's anything like me its an option I don't want to be bothered with.

You don't have to have line arrays. Getting the speakers up in the air is key. You should have those 6-7 feet in the air for a prom, even higher with them slightly angled downward. There are higher end Companies that have speakers that "throw" quite far and retain the quality & legibility, like Danley & JTR. You could also switch to using 4 60 degree tops instead of 2 90 degree tops. While that might not raise the volume enough in the rear, it will increase the SPL probably 4 db or so and give you wider coverage, which is good for a Prom/Homecoming type of events (usually in gyms).
What level of volume are you expecting at the back of the room as opposed to the front? If you want 110+ DB in the rear you will need satellites back there or a lot more rig for the gig. If I was doing a 500 person Prom type event in a gym sized room, I'd run back fills and 6-8 subs.

Probably not because ive found its better to have both if possible. A good quality point & shoot top like RCF 735 has a few advantages over a line array. For example....The line array will go much louder but the RCF 735 will go lower which works well for for small events when no subs are required. Line arrays can be used 1 per side but work best 2 or more per side in order to get wider vertical dispersion. The RCF 735 is designed to work well 1 per side.

So I guess "selling everything" depends on what % of your events are small where RCF 735 are sufficient without subs VS Proms at club volume too the back of the room.

I just did a homecoming in a large gym. Pound the snot out 'em for the first 20-30 on the dance floor, but it's OK to not have it too loud near the back of the room. Kids do need a "softer place" to talk a bit. If they want to get hit hard with bass, they can migrate to the center of the room.

Satellite speakers will not work with setup time restrictions, wiring and taping things down would be a nightmare.

I always setup my speakers very high for big crowds so thats great advice.

4 main speakers would not work in my case, I dont have the room in my van nor do I want to deal with that amount of weight.

I honestly got no complaints from the gig I did, I just wanted more sound as most people do lol. Seems like line arrays are the only thing that will give me the amount of throw for their size and weight.

The RCF 735a are excellent for their price, size and weight, but I think if I had the cash and space this would be my ideal system. If anyone has heard these please let me know-

2 - RCF NXL24a
2 - RCF Sub 8004
Watchwww.youtube.com
forums.prosoundweb.com

I think that's gonna be my next upgrade. i'm running two (2) 8004s and two (2) HD32as. Venues complaining about bass already so i think i will pass on two more subs. Prolly won't happen till next year as i just purchased another two (2) Chauvet 355z.

Excellent system, even I've been considering it over the years but my guess is you would need twice that for 500 kids in the gym. In this video they're using 4 subs for 500 kids in a gym. Watchm.youtube.com

But I guess all that depends on what you're currently using now for 500 kids in the gym ?

I've heard it in the Demo Room at Infocomm, sounds great, quality gear. You could do a gym with the tops but would really still need 4 of the subs to get the sound you really want. I went in a similar, but different, direction. My Noesis 3TX tops are tall & skinny but are three way (down to 80 hz) that I got with the 90x60 horn. They take up to 2200 watts each. Combined with the Orbit Shifters, I can fill a gym pretty good with just the two tops & two subs. Four subs would be optimal but you're talking a lot of bass. For DJing, I think this 4 way setup has a more balanced sound compared to a lot of three way or array setups. If I was doing live music more I would have went with the Danley SM80s.

LOL, the company in that video ended up selling the RCF gear and upgrading to Danleys. Their comment when asked why:
rick_pss@atlas.206 Danley's are a more musical box. Plus 2TH118 = 6 8004. Still like the 8004 and think they serve a purpose in the market plus as the most impressive powered single 18 on the market.

People don't believe until they hear the difference with the Danley & JTR lines. Next level quality & SPL levels, especially clarity at a distance. Just got a new generator, need to take mine out somewhere isolated and do some tests soon.

Those are awesome, but you still have to power them bringing the cost WAY up as it is. What amp are you using to power them? How much did end up getting them for? I hear different prices.

I'm currently using a Crown XTI6002. It's got DSP built in so no need for external processing though I did pick up a 32 band EQ.
They go for $2199 each, I got a bit of a discount as I have other JTR gear (he has a buy more, save more program). The two way 2AX model is a bit cheaper at $1499.
Super quality at about a third cheaper than Danleys. Super clear, vocals & voices are very defined and carry well. They've done demos with 1 top with 8 Orbit Shifters, to show the output they have. The O.S. subs are very efficient, even at super low volume you can feel the air throughout the room move. Way more musical than my Yorkville LS800p sub, you can hear notes you don't on the Yorkie. They are a steal at their price point ($1800/3100 powered). They are huge but easy to move, easier than the Yorkville to load. So far, I've been pretty happy with the setup and it should only get better as it gets tweaked during usage.

how about in output? Im guessing OS destroys yorkville?

1 O.S. equals at least 2 Yorkies and sounds way better. You hear the Yorkvile by itself and it sounds great and rattles a lot of shit. Once you hear the other one though.... whole 'notha level. The bass just permeates through the air, you feel it on your whole body.

hmmm interesting. I just picked up 2 jbl vrx 918sp. They are great but I was super underpowered for a homecoming I did.
How many kids do you think 1 OS could handle?
Also looking for new tops. Would prefer an active solution but the 3tx look very solid

So about 6 grand just for the Noesis 3TX tops and power... wow thats a lot, but it would be a good investment if your using them a lot.

Have you tried the long stroke?

I bet your mom has. lol

Seriously though, the Danleys are amazing. I've heard them and they just sound like nothing I've ever heard. Forget sound. More like FEEL.

________________________________________
Bragging rights for life bitch! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
serato.com

nm

Oh im a believer, Danley & JTR lines just doesn't fit most of my current size, weight, scalable, mobile "one man show" requirements.......lol

Plus I have little too no interest in going back to passive systems and power amps......reactiongif.org

I mean, most likley. Lol nm

1 orbit shifter should be equal to about 3 jbl vrx 918sp in output. The orbit shifter is a better deal $$$ @ $3100ea vs the vrx if size weight is no issue.

I thought that too but it's really not a big deal. Sometimes it's easier with only having to run signal out to the speakers and not power also. I have one more 6u box to load in/out - 2 amps and a dual 32 band EQ.
To be honest though, I purchased my JTR system to eventually go into a club I intend to open in the next 2 years. I will be doing some gigs with them before then but it's overkill for most small-medium type events. I still have my ZXa5/LS800 and SX200/ZXa1 subs rigs as well. I'm planning an outside beach type party next month that I'll bring the whole system out for, hopefully I'll get some video, sound readings, and a general review. When I last hooked the subs up together in a indoor, closed, rented hall, I could still feel the bass 1/4 mile away from the building.

"I thought that too but it's really not a big deal. Sometimes it's easier with only having to run signal out to the speakers and not power also."

True

________________________________________
Bragging rights for life bitch! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
serato.com

nm

When given the option of lugging one of these store.roadreadycases.com too and from every event big or small, I would happily prefer a few of these www.markertek.com :)

RCF NX L24-A, Active Two-Way Array System. I really want to hear these speakers, badly.
See comment at 1:35 sec -Watchwww.youtube.com

If anyone who has heard them please give me your thoughts. My current RCF 735a are incredibly loud for their weight and size. They work well for 80% of my events like Weddings and private parties. I have no complaints, however for large school dances they can't cut through the crowd. I had about 5 gigs this year where I wanted more sound. Im thinking about stepping it up with the NX series if they cut through the crowd like the video claims.

@ SELECT, just saw your Cambridge 5K on instagram and noticed the JBL VRX932 tops.
How was the sound ? How many peeps at the outside event ? How many peeps at the inside event ?

For the inside event they are only using 1 vrx top per side for FOH & 1 per side for front fill, That looks a lil light for that size crowd but you were there so how did it sound, was it enough ?

oops, just realized i didn't see the whole setup till now....lol
pbs.twimg.com

That wasn't even the entire setup. The ran the cables through the ceiling and lined the entire parking lot, front to back with speakers. The sound company was on ladders for an entire day setting up. That stage was lined with dual subs underneath. Complete and total overkill as my tables were actually bouncing from the bass. I had to tell them to tone it down.

How are the VRX treating you, are they easy to setup and transport? Is it a lot of work to get them to sound right at venues? I would love some, but buying 4 of those would break the bank. Hence why Im looking at the RCF line array NX series.

What are the pros and cons of the VRX?

I love them, they are small and light enough for easy transport and setup is as simple as any other powered speaker once you understand its requirements.


No, only if you don't know what your doing. It requires some specific EQ cuts in the hi freq, once done its "set it and forget it".


Pro's = very loud considering its size and weight (50lbs top / 85lb sub), projects much further that your standard good quality speakers (ei. srx800's, ev etx, Yamaha dsr, qsc k/kw). Scalable from 50 to 1000+ people. Easy of use, plug & play capable of small concerts but does not require an experienced sound guy to run it. You can play at concert/club level 100ft away while standard speakers will drop off after 40ft.

Con = Unlike standard speakers, when using 1 per side proper aiming is required due to its 15 degree vertical projection. Its designed to be used with subs so I does not go very low but still usable in stand alone. It sounds good and gets loud with no processing but it requires a DBX Driverack to sound GREAT and to get stupid LOUD. The difference is noticeable at HIGH volume only. Works best 2 per side so it can be expensive considering 4 total are required.



The rcf nxl24a should work better 1 per side compared to the vrx932lap which is why I want some.

Thanks for the info Pdidy, super insightful. I love the VRX line as the sound company uses them for all our events. They are workhorses and always sound great, tuned. For a one man show tho I think the best fit will be the RCF nxl24. I will be most likely purchasing them next April.

Im wondering how 2 of the RCF would hold up with four of the vrx subs

Anyone in Houston... I'm down to shootout. I have a pair of 8004s.

FYI

i priced the nxl24 & 8004 about $2000 on the sub & about $1,500 on the top

vrx system will cost about the same price 1500 sub & 2000 top

i prefer the rcf, but the vrx may be a little easier to mange lighter top and sub

Where? Everyone has the RCF NXL24 for 2400.00 each.

you already know PAS......

i actually priced out 4 subs & 4 tops & was told $ $14,000 (if i'm not mistaken that is exactly what pdidy paid for his 4 tops & 4 subs)

then i priced one 8004 ,was told $2,100

so i'm doing a little bit of guessing on the nxl pricing

i just looked at kpo, they have it for $1,800....

i know for a fact pas will beat that price

I check KPOdj, they do have them VIP for 1800 and some change. So two RCF NX and one 8004 will run you about 5700.00 total. Hopefully next year I can save for this.

Damn you select... I'm thinking about grabbing those NX 24s now. May just pick them up before the end of the year. Need some gear to offset the tax man.

So.... Nxl24 or the rcf Art 745?

Lets say I had 4 subs, which would fair better for lets say 500 kids for a dance

Lol, I feel your pain. I had to lock away my credit card and just say no and be patient. Next year tho, cant wait!



Two different kinds of speakers. Line array with amazing dispersion and throw or 15 inch top that can handle most gigs and provide sufficient bass. I wont use the NX without a sub. The NX are almost double the price as well.

next year is only 2 months away.......lol

I really think you need what pdidy has, 2 tops/2 subs per side to start in regards to the VRX. 3 tops/4 subs per side is when it starts coming into it's sweet spot.

Lol! Thats it, I'm putting my stuff on ebay.

maybe, but this is one sexy setup & it's super compact

s26.photobucket.com

Ive been researching them for the past month. It's sleek, modern and compact. I cant wait.

have you seen the new one? it's an improvement to the 24

www.rcf.it

also about a grand more lol

lol..yes indeed

the way i look at it, it's worth it on the long run, do we really pay for any of our gear?

no! our gear pays for it self many times over

This is also true, now you have me thinking about saving up for a pair of those, I wonder what PAS could do for me on those ;)

usually 20% to 30% off list price

Nice speaker, but for $3k+ for a 2 way box, I'd probably be looking at Danley, JTR, etc... with a higher output & clarity.

What would you suggest?

indeed ,would it be powered?

i think i may be able to get that rcf 44 box for 2K if i shopped around

this comes to mind

Watchwww.youtube.com

heres another

Watchwww.youtube.com

Everything Danley and JTR make are amazing, but unpowered and extremely heavy. Absolutely not mobile DJ friendly.

This right here, the l44 are active and are about 75 pounds. plus if I could get them around 2 ish a peice shipped I would probably pull the trigger

correct, the 8004 / 24 combo is supper compact

i'll tell you what i was considering getting these little guys 70+ lbs
www.danleysoundlabs.com

$2k would be a good price, it is a good box.

For our type of gigs, I'd recommend the Danley SM80 or SBH-20, JTR Noesis 3TX or 2AX, all of those are unpowered though.
Fulcrum Acoustic portable series for powered
Maybe Bassboss, haven't heard them myself yet.

great picks

i thinks it's just us and wanting better ,those are some series over kill picks for dj'ing

especially considering most dj's I've seen only bring 12" or 15' tops on stick to their gigs

most guys around here think qsc k12's are the ultimate in speaker choices

Not true. My JTR Noesis 3TX are 50 lbs and are pole mountable.
Danley SM80s are 65 lbs and also pole mountable.

The subs are heavy but you need big boxes that don't flex to make great sound. My Orbit Shifters are easier to move around and load in the van than my Yorkville LS800p as I have to lift the Yorkie but only tip the taller subs.

I agree but we were talking about $3400 RCF speakers.

JTR also has the Growler, similar in size to the TH Mini and deadly when used in multiples.

stop it! don't make me want to change my speakers .......lol

Fuck it! time to sell everything and do a complete upgrade from the bottom up.....lol

it's a never ending cycle ......lol

and completely unnecessary ......all my clients would be happy with a pair of zxa5's on stick

@ taipanic, I hear you on the Danley/JTR recomendatations but the reality is the days of the passive speakers died 10+ yrs ago for the mobile Dj and ain't nobody going back :)

word.....i'm using two evox 12 for all my gigs this system was around $3,500

i could buy two dxr12 & one dxs18 for around $2,000 & it would kill the evox 12's

portability and convenience wins for me hands down, i dont see my self going back to passive

I get that, mine were purchased with the intent to not be used for mobile work much longer. It really is a wash though, either you run two cables (power & signal) to each speaker, or one cable per box from the amp rack. Amps are lighter these days so my big system only has one 6u rack extra and 4 fewer power cables. Setup time is the same. All the DSP is built into the amps I use as well.
As also noted, upgrades like this are all about the music quality, which most of the customer base will not miss if they've never heard it. The average wedding guest won't be bitching about lack of subs but the gigs that do have exceptional sound will stand out to people, though they might not realize why, specifically. I agree my JTR rig is overkill for most private functions and many small bars but when running it envelopes you in sound & bass, rather than just hearing it. The plan for my gear is to give it a home where people who appreciate things like that will come and enjoy it (and spend money).

I sold my passive JBL 715 & 718 subs with DBX, Crown and QSC amps because the were not mobile friendly. Just to many problems with amps, cables, processing, speaker placement. Half the gigs they sounded amazing, the other it was WTF.

Anything JTR or Danley I'd have to get the sub which are not mobile DJ friendly. I refuse to mix and match or go passive again. If they ever go powered, Im all in.

one of our forum member who now owns NXL24a over sub8004 subs
www.djforums.com

uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com

nice



the evox turned into a nxl44 or TT series ....lol

The RCF NXL24a over sub8004 subs is not only a great setup, but it also really looks great.

now you guys got me questioning the Vrx subs if 2 8004 = 3~4 vrx lol

have you seen this? Sexy!
s26.photobucket.com

lol

Yeah I did... lol

strongly considering the nxl44 depending on what I get quoted for them with a couple 8004 so I could handle larger events saying I would be able to get rid of the vrx subs lol. This is all speculation though as further research is required. Anyone heard the l44's yet? Doesnt appear to be much out there on them

Wow a new 100 pound, 15inch subwoofer from Danley Sound Labs- www.danleysoundlabs.com

That Lil sub is going to be LOUD but unfortunately not deep or powered.

Nice!

whats the max i could push a b52 matrix 2000...? i want to invest in another (smaller) matrix 1000 (possibly 2) or maybe another 2000.

1 matrix 1000 = 75 people
1 matrix 2000 = 100 people

But im a Party DJ and play very loud, but if you are a wedding dj you can probably double those numbers.

damn thats it :/ whamp whamp... ive done way bigger parties with my setup. nothing but compliments, the sub kicks ass

If you've ever read anything that pdidy has posted... you'll know! :)

The Mini's been out for years, they updated it from a 12" driver to a 15" around 2 years ago. Comparable to the JTR Growler, while not deep they put out serious bass in multiples.

They just posted it yesterday- www.facebook.com

us3.campaign-archive2.com

They just posted it yesterday- www.facebook.com
us3.campaign-archive2.com

So it is a new model, my bad...
They showed the updated the THMini with a 15" driver 2 years ago at Infocomm Orlando. This looks to be a little bigger cabinet with handles and pole cups.

And new QSC Ksub looks awesome - www.facebook.com

bout damn time QSC released something new. Not impressed that it essentially looks like an update to the K-Sub. The cardiod mode in a single box seems kind of cool tho - hopefully they will incorporate it in some double 18s or at least offer it in their single 18s.

Seems like a pretty weak update. I hope they have more to announce.

It looks like a mini copy of the Nexo GEO CD18..... www.solarisnetwork.com

Setup for 800 people , Corporate christmass party .
Used:
4xRCF 8004as + 2 ART745 for FOH
2xRCF ART 715 for Sidefill's
1XRCF HD32 for Dj Monitor
It was overkill . Nothing came close to cliping . I had second thoughts using the ART745 as the foh tops but it was pefect , They throw far and they sound Awesome . For mobile Dj-ing aplications it's a clear winner. The 8004-s are beasts on steroids.

Pictures :

www.dropbox.com

Very Nice!!

Why do the RCF tops seem like they are really low. You need to get those bad boys up in the air.

How you like the MCX8000?

The horn is above the heads , it starts at allmoust 2meters hight . it was pefect .
The MCX8000 is prehaps the best controler without moving platers on the market , there is a slight sound difrence beetween using it with Serato and using it with Engine (witch by the way is far from perfect & glitchy ) . But in rest it's a workhorse and only good things to say, i love the echo on the mic :)

What movers you using?

Does it sound better with Serato or Engine?

Somme chinese 90W Led Spot Moving Heads



It sound's a little better with Engine from what i can judge with my ears , but it's very buggy. Prefer to usit with Serato .

Oh snap!!! mang I thought about buying another set of 8004s but want to get a pair of RCF NXL24 first. Nice setup!!!

Need advise and/or suggestions... One of my upcoming DJ gig, is in a school gym... tentative headcount may be 400+

I'm planning to use, 2 x QSC K12.2 tops + 2 x QSC K12 tops + 2 x JBL PRX718XLF subs paired together. Do you guys think it'll produce decent sound or do I need to consider something more? Also let me know what do you think about the placement of the speakers.

Really appreciate your valuable suggestions from your experience.

For 400 in a school gym, you may want to add another pair of subs... You should be fine with the tops you have.

yea, you'll need more subs - 4 would be better, but more couldn't hurt.

If you're looking to cover a largish room, think about using the K12s as the mains and the 12.2s as satellites with the delay engaged.

Thanks Arjun B & dj_soo... I’ll get 4 subs then... now question is, why K12 as mains and not K12.2... the reason I’m asking, each K12 has 1KW power where as each K12.2 has 2KW power. Just wanted to understand the reasoning behind your your thought

Because the 12.2 have DELAY capability and the 12s don’t. The wattage is all marketing language and not realistic (no 12” fullrange speaker is so inefficient it requires or even could use 2000 watts of power), the 12.2 might get a tiny bit louder, almost unnoticeablly different to the originals in volume.

Yea, while the 12.2s will likely sound better, it's mainly for the built in delay to avoid phasing if you set up a speaker at a distance.

Power amp ratings, for the most part, is a scam. A clean 1000 watt amp costs more than your average car. Only a few companies in the world even make them.

As for the gym, its really hard to get good sound in a room like that. Shiny hard wood floors, high ceilings and reflective walls are hard to work with. Since you won't be making any changes to the gym, just put as many people as you can into the room. As the place fills up, the sound will get better.

I'm just wowed with the level of knowledge in this forum... I'm fully convinced with the suggestions you guys have made of using 4 subs and with the 4 top placements.

So, can I place all the 4 subs side by side at the center or should I stack 2 subs over the other 2 subs? I've seen subs getting displaced a bit, so I'm a bit scared of stacking one over the other. What would you suggest?

Another important thing I missed out about the gym is, it has a stage and a few stairs (all the way from left to right of the stage). So should I keep the subs on the stage or at the bottom of the stairs? Not sure if the placing is going to make any difference or not. Btw, the dance floor starts immediately where the stair ends.

Regarding the tops, if I arrange the 2 x K12.2 tops - one on left and the other one on right, angled a bit inwards towards the audience and tilted down a bit on tripods. then what is the suggested distance between them? Also, I believe the distance in ft between the tops will be equal to the delay in milliseconds. Is this correct, or do I need to engage the delay based on their distance from the audience?

all 4 coupled is the easiest as separating requires either some more advanced knowledge in placement or a lot of trial and error to prevent cancellation and dead spots.

keeping them on the floor will give you that ground coupling boost to give a better sense of "felt" bass on the dancefloor.

In terms of the tops, you should be fine unless the speakers are a large distance from the subs. You could also try to array the tops according to the setup in the manual, but there is a chance of comb filtering unless you angle them just perfectly.

One thing that will help is if the k12s and subs are in roughly a “line” the delay comes into play for the 12.2 at the other end of the gym.

Also try placing the 12.2s at the middle sides of the room facing in to the center from the sides at a lower volume than the 12s and with delay vs just at the far end aiming at the 12s in an X. See which sounds best.

Never stack speakers without having them strapped down:
photos.app.goo.gl

If you put subs together in the center it will create a power alley right in the front of where they are located. It will also throw a lot of bass behind the speakers, which may put too much bass on the stage. the pic above I used 6 subs, two stacked on the ends and two in the center. Sound was balanced thoughout the hall, with a bump right in the front center of the dance floor. You could also spread all 4 across the front, making sure they are still close enough to couple. Getting set up early and doing a proper soundcheck will let you see what will sound best for that venue. Make sure you have the bottom edge of your QSC mid/high speakers around 6ft high.

They also make black straps! LoL

Yeah, it was an on-site decision to stack the subs & tops at this gig, originally was going to spread them out and use sub poles for the tops. Safety over appearance, in this case.

I hear ya - good call.

I'll probably use 6 subs like you. Not sure of the power alley but will check at the gym while setup.

Now, the venue also is providing 4 EV subs (some 18"... I don't know their model # etc). Would you recomend using them or should I just leave them along.

I would try to avoid a mish mash of different typs of subs, if you can help it, you could end up with less overall sound due to cancellations. Again, best to test everything out early and add/subtract what you need to get proper sound.

I was under the impression that the term "power alley" refers to a lane of bass between two lanes of cancellation - something that tends to happen more when you separate the subs.

If you couple them all together up front, you have a single point of bass that emanates from the stack without the cancellation that could occur.

www.prosoundweb.com

+1
THATS BEEN MY UNDERSTANDING.

^^ TRUE ^^

But, wall reflections will also cause power allies and valley (cancellation zones). Fortunately, when the gym fills up with kids, these reflections are held to a minimum at ground level. It's the ceiling reflections that may cause an issue, but hopefully above the crowd's heads.
In any case, crank it to 11 and keep your subs close together.

My buddy and I run 12 subs at large events. 8 on each side and 4 in front of stage. We have to time delay the center subs to help eliminate power vallies in the dance area. You can literally walk around a half circle out in the listening area and hear the dips in bass performance as we adjust the delay processor. Nothing will completely eliminate the cancellation areas, but we can keep them narrow and off to the far sides of the dance area.