Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
Are you willing to buy another all in one controller or have modular components?
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Are you willing to buy another all in one controller or have modular components?

thebeatworx 5:37 PM - 3 November, 2010
I think there are enough threads in this forum about the S4... (And yes, I am guilty of fueling the fire...) Obviously ITCH can grow and evolve over time to accommodate features similar or surpassing the competition... But what about the controllers? Many of us with a current ITCH controller will find it hard to have a hardware interface that will allow access to competitive feature upgrades... (i.e. How will we control 16 sample banks for example or loop recording if that's in our (ITCH's) future?) Will you be disappointed if the powers that be require you to purchase another all in one to preserve 1:1 mapping? Or will you be satisfied if companies begin to provide add on units similar to the VFX1 or NFX effects controllers?

I love the portability of an all in one, but with the S4 as competition, as well as The Bridge coming out for ITCH, I'm not sure what route Serato and it's partners will take to be competitive... As pointed out by another user, Native Instruments may have an easier time with this issue because they control both the hardware and software development.

I'd love to see a VCI300 or DX sized unit with 16 sample pads to launch clips or samples... Something like Livid Instruments OHM64 with jog wheels...

OR...

...perhaps another add on sampler unit that is mappable...

OR...

Open up SSL control for ITCH controllers... (i.e. allow the VCI to control SSL and merge the two software products...)

...and before user members start quoting other posts on what the definition of ITCH is and that it's "not going to happen"... I ask you this, "Why isn't it going to happen?" Why can't a software solution be provided to SSL for internal mixing? Why can't they make the ITCH interface MIDI mappable?
marcA 5:49 PM - 3 November, 2010
...
because it is their business model
i don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that you buy a working system, that is a controller and the necessairy software to run that controller ergo the soft is paid when you buy the controller....
(not aimed at thebeartworx, just my $.02 reading up on all the comments lately)

and that is exactly why i choose to put my money in the itch(+favorite controller) basket

and i don't mind to pay for additional hardware if it fit my needs
thebeatworx 6:04 PM - 3 November, 2010
Quote:
...
because it is their business model
i don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that you buy a working system, that is a controller and the necessairy software to run that controller ergo the soft is paid when you buy the controller....
(not aimed at thebeartworx, just my $.02 reading up on all the comments lately)

and that is exactly why i choose to put my money in the itch(+favorite controller) basket

and i don't mind to pay for additional hardware if it fit my needs


No offense taken... I'm just reading all the feature requests myself and wondering, ok how can we make it happen? (Basically, I'm admitting... Ok, I've contributed enough to the problem (i.e. Riding the S4 buzz wave...) but now, how can I make what I have better?)
marcA 6:12 PM - 3 November, 2010
oh i'm pretty sure serato does take into account what they read here and try to incorporate as much as possible...
for example, when the fx addons came to the scene, complains were for having to buy another controller to be able to have some fx, serato added the superfilter easter egg to 'give' something to the users without fx module and i'm glad cause now i'm able to pull 3 fx on 1 channel and i the first thing i do is enabling the easter egg, i use it (probably to often) a lot.
also they try to give all controllers the same possibilities, as example the delete button on the ns7 that acts as shift now or the request for having an adjustable curve on the channel faders of the ns7, or the option to have adjustable gains and headroom...

so yes i do believe that serato is about pleasing the users, it just can't all happen overnight...

so how do you make it better for you : imho by starting feature request threads, and hopefully enough will vote for it and one day it will happen :)

cu
marc
kraal 6:37 PM - 3 November, 2010
i personally and ready and will to buy a new controller if it has a lot of things i would like in an all in one .... however an add on would be good too...
thebeatworx 6:39 PM - 3 November, 2010
Well... my feature request is for Serato to rethink their business model... lol

They have two DJ software solutions, SSL and ITCH... Both essentially do the same thing, but one can use vinyl and a slew of third party controllers to control the decks, cue points, etc... amd the other can mix internally with a dedicated controller but it isn't open to mapping but is portable... Their greatest competition, can do all of that in one software solution with a lot of third party hardware options...

I really think that merging the two products would not only satisfy a whole lot of users as far as feature requests and it will offer a more competitive product when compared to the other offerings... (I mean, c'mon... I've seen people in this forum who prefer to use VDJ with their NS7 or VCI over ITCH... Virtual DJ!!!?!!!! and I think it's not only because of the features (i.e Video), but it's because VDJ is versatile in a way that Serato is not... Just like Traktor or even Mixxx...)

Why fracture users within your own product base (i.e. split them up between SSL and ITCH) when you know you have excellent odds of squashing the outside competition with a unified product?

...or the other option is for me to shut up and suck it up and wait for the next-levelness which may or may not require me to purchase new hardware and / or software from Serato... lol
kraal 6:47 PM - 3 November, 2010
thebeatworx --- you have to put RANE in the equation RANE owns the license for SSL so in order for itch to work for ssl you would have to buy a serato box plus and itch controller
thebeatworx 7:01 PM - 3 November, 2010
Quote:
thebeatworx --- you have to put RANE in the equation RANE owns the license for SSL so in order for itch to work for ssl you would have to buy a serato box plus and itch controller


D'oh... I forgot about that too... but if I was a new user, I would be willing to pay for that... (I already own SSL...) Theoretically, say the price is $1200 for a SSL approved controller (i.e. a VCI / Rane combo controller) with a unified Serato software solution?

...I'd pay for that...

I'd pay $$$ if Rane drops a 57 with scratchy jogs done right... there are a lot of things I'd pay for... but I'm just trying to view it from Serato's perspective as far as what would be most profitable for them... and I'm not saying I'm right... I'm just throwing it out there...
wadup 5:43 AM - 4 November, 2010
I really don't see the big deal for adding native support for itch controller for SSL even tho rane have the license for ssl...like I said before you will still need a rane hardware for ssl to be operable so rane will only gain not loose anything.
kraal 5:55 AM - 4 November, 2010
but not many people will paqy for both
wadup 6:56 AM - 4 November, 2010
Agree.. But what would serato and rane have to loose? Nothing, if anything they would only win.. I'm pretty sure the idea of 2 V7's and either a rane 57 or 68 would be very enticing
kraal 7:08 AM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:
Agree.. But what would serato and rane have to loose? Nothing, if anything they would only win.. I'm pretty sure the idea of 2 V7's and either a rane 57 or 68 would be very enticing

they would lose to the compitition period.... If itch/serato hybrid cost 700 plus 900 to 1300 dollar itch controller i would go for traktor ot vdj or mixvibes in a heart beat....
haze324 1:53 PM - 4 November, 2010
I think beat brings up a good question. If Itch comes out next year with new features how do we control them?? I have both an NSFX and VFX-1 and they are not that impressive in comparrision to similar contollers (the X1 spanks the VFX-1 in knobs, buttons, etc and cost 50 bucks less).

So to think on a larger scheme here --- there really has to be a coordinated effort between multiple hardware companies. Let's say that Numark drops a new all-in-one controller and it has controls for a sampler let say. that means now vestax has to deliver one...and it better be soon after or every other VCI owner will lose his mind here. Same as A&H, Denon, etc.

option 2: everything on your controller has an shift button to it. That's not cool either.

option 3: open midi mapping to other controllers

This is can't be an easy solution to solve when you have to deal with multiple hardware companies. Again, this buisness model provides a few challenges for future growth.

What do you guys think?
kraal 4:15 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:

This is can't be an easy solution to solve when you have to deal with multiple hardware companies. Again, this buisness model provides a few challenges for future growth.

What do you guys think?

not saying this to defend serato just saying it cause it is how i feel... Serato HAS to realize this issue they HAVE to be working on a solution --- could this be the hold up on 2.0?
haze324 4:26 PM - 4 November, 2010
Yeah I agree. They have to realize this as soon as they hit a wall when they figured out how to develop the software but how do you deliver it to closed hardwared.

Krall just for the sake of dialogue --- what do you think the solution will be?

I don't think they will open up midi mapping. It just screams "we were wrong".
kraal 4:32 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:

Krall just for the sake of dialogue --- what do you think the solution will be?

I don't think they will open up midi mapping. It just screams "we were wrong".

Wow i can not answer that --- i mean part of the research and development money has to be coming from the controller companies such as VESTAX NUMARK ect so if they cut them off will we really lose ground for developing?
haze324 4:48 PM - 4 November, 2010
yeah that's what I'm thinking too. I was thinking perhaps they come up with an all-in-one (the new Numark?) and then one controller for the other units to use - but then who makes it? Does each company develop their own? Lots of variables there.

The more I think about it the more challenging it gets.

I think we can make a few assumptions though:

1. Itch 2.0 will have more than just the bridge? Perhaps more/better effects ala SSL
2. Itch WILL NOT merge with SSL (these guys are dreaming)
3. The Bridge will be released and you will use a 3rd Party Controller (APC)
4. Itch is releasing a new 4 channel controller similar to the NS7 but smaller and no spinning platters
kraal 5:03 PM - 4 November, 2010
here is another thought a new partner...
toss akai into the mix they can make the sampler/extra add on controller so each company doesnt need to make one
haze324 5:18 PM - 4 November, 2010
....mmmm, that would solve alot of issues. Akai would make out like bandits selling the only Bridge and Itch sampler/extra controller. That might upset Vesta and Numark of it aslo controlls effects --- but really how much profit can they be making off a NSFX and VFX-1.

Hope the real answer is as interesting as all the crap we come up with on here.
kraal 5:21 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:
.. That might upset Vesta and Numark of it aslo controlls effects --- but really how much profit can they be making off a NSFX and VFX-1.

Hope the real answer is as interesting as all the crap we come up with on here.

well numark fixed that all they sell is the v7 and ns7fx

vestax needs to drop an all in one with effects which has to be due anyways cause they both need a 4 channel controller
thebeatworx 5:34 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:

I don't think they will open up midi mapping. It just screams "we were wrong".


Well... to answer the point of open midi mapping... I'd give respect to any company or person (in any field) who can admit, "Hey, we were wrong." AND then offer a better product.

Quote:

vestax needs to drop an all in one with effects which has to be due anyways cause they both need a 4 channel controller


...I was wondering why Vestax dropped a MKII version but didn't take this into consideration as well... because I feel that they took the assigning of effects with the VCI-100 MKII into consideration... Although the imporvements on the VCI-300 MKII benefitted me as a mobile DJ, it didn't really open up new roads to creativity.

I wouldn't mind piecing out the VCI jog wheels into it's own modular component like a V7... Maybe use a Vestax Pad One or APC30 / 20 to drop samples and then a 4 channel hybrid mixer so I can still control software and hook up tables if needed.

And yes an all in one would be great, but I just wish someone would drop a teaser or solid rumor or something to keep me excited...
haze324 5:42 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:

And yes an all in one would be great, but I just wish someone would drop a teaser or solid rumor or something to keep me excited...


I've come to grips that this is not gonna happen anytime soon.
djcerla 5:57 PM - 4 November, 2010
Quote:
Quote:



And yes an all in one would be great, but I just wish someone would drop a teaser or solid rumor or something to keep me excited...


I've come to grips that this is not gonna happen anytime soon.


It's going to happen precisely at the moment Serato Marketing will make it happen, you can bet on this.
haze324 6:21 PM - 4 November, 2010
^ hahahhahaah

I think I read that on a fortune cookie one time.

The other one said "we will win every game until we lose one"
Ragman 8:34 PM - 4 November, 2010
Have anyone thought about the fact that now NI has hi-speed MIDI will they partner up with other hardware companies pretty much like Serato did with Itch, or will they keep that technology to themselves for their own hardware production. Right now NI has been very generous with giving out Native support for TSP to various companies.
haze324 3:26 AM - 5 November, 2010
the "HID" in the S4 is actually NHL and it proprietary to NI.
haze324 3:27 AM - 5 November, 2010
also Rag, lets keep this thread talking about a future itch controller or solution before it turns into another S4 thread :)
Ragman 3:46 AM - 5 November, 2010
haze what I'm talking about is on topic. If NI go the Serato Itch route, I could see companies like Numark or Denon creating new NHL type controllers for this flavor of Traktor. My statement wasn't an S4 statement at all.
haze324 3:54 AM - 5 November, 2010
ok i hear ya man. I'm not arguing with you. I just thought we were discussing if we would get an all-in-one for the next features of Itch or a modular set-up for itch. Nothing about TP or S4. I hear what your saying though.

what do you think Itch will do to release the new features. An all-in-one or a bunch of new secondary controllers VFX-1 style?
Ragman 4:02 AM - 5 November, 2010
I think the current crop of Itch units are very limited, even from a modular standpoint. I got a feeling a new Itch controller is coming in the near future that will be more robust towards Itch instead of the other way around.

I think Numark is the key right now. I can see them ditching the modular approach. I really hope they come out with an all-in-one to go against this S4 but step it up a notch. When it comes to R&D they are a very creative company.
Ragman 4:06 AM - 5 November, 2010
The DX was headed in the right direction but fell short with certain features that NI pounced on.
haze324 5:18 AM - 5 November, 2010
^ agree on the DX.

I think the big challenge for Serato will be if the Numark controller is pure sex -- then how do you integrate new software features to the VCI or the NS7?
kraal 6:56 AM - 5 November, 2010
unfortunatly the xonedx shows that new features will show up on new controllers leaving old ones behine... for channels for xone but not for exstablished users is a let down
dj ask 4:18 PM - 6 November, 2010
Quote:
unfortunatly the xonedx shows that new features will show up on new controllers leaving old ones behine... for channels for xone but not for exstablished users is a let down


+1 I hope they open 4 decks for everyone
[O/][iii][O/] 8:43 PM - 15 November, 2010
This concern about apparent biz model and the platform division it's creating was voiced about a year ago serato.com