Random Freeze upon song load

tjdj 8:32 PM - 21 April, 2010

Product: itch
Version: 1.5
Hardware: vestax-vci-300
Computer: pc
OS Version: vista64
---

I recently purchased a Dell laptop that runs Windows 7. I bought the laptop based on the minimum specs listed on this page: serato.com. The laptop I purchased goes above and beyond the min specs listed here.

On this page: serato.com, Serato (in the min spec section) states that Windows 7 64-bit will function properly with Serato Itch. But after running Serato Itch 1.5 with Windows 7 64-bit I found that this is NOT TRUE. Serato Itch is running very unstable on my system. EVERY time I run the program I get a random freeze in Serato Itch upon song load. Sometimes this happens 3 minutes into the set, sometimes it happens 1 hour into the set. This is unacceptable. I talked to Serato customer support about this. They told me to reconfigure my computer by maximizing power options, turning off Aero, turning off wireless internet and mcaffee, etc.. I did all of this and still had the same issue.

Which leads me to believe this is not a hardware issue, but a software issue. Customer support told me "they are aware of some issues with Serato Itch 1.5 running on 64-bit Win7 machines." Well, ok then please create a patch that fixes this. Especially since I bought a $1000 computer based on advertising on your site that says Serato Itch is compatible with Windows 7, I think I deserve an answer to the following question (based on other forums I think other people deserve an answer to this too).

My question to Serato: Can you confirm that there is a bug/glitch with Itch and 64-bit Win7? And, when are you issuing a patch to fix this problem and/or a new release of Itch?

To the forum - have you experienced similar problems with Itch and Windows 7? Have you been able to work around this?

I'm a big fan of Serato Itch but this issue is unacceptable to DJ's. Especially when you advertise ITCH as working with Win7 64-bit, and clearly it doesn't.

Here are specs on my computer just to cover all the bases.
Intel 2 Duo P7450 (2.13GHz/1066Mhz FSB/3MB cache)
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz
500GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English

Matt-C 10:47 PM - 21 April, 2010

HI tjdj.

Sorry to hear you are having problems.... :-(

What you are experiencing sounds like a system conflict somewhere.
PCs are configured fairly randomly at times, and for pro audio use users can often need to tweak their system so Windows isn't hogging resources.

First up, can you please go over this article and make sure you are doing everything here:www.serato.com

Can you also test with no other USB devices plugged in (for testing purposes for now, we can introduce anything else after you are running smoothly).

Next can you please go over this article to get Windows setup for audio use. Even though it is a Vista article, Windows 7 is basically a streamlined Vista, so most things should be the same:www.serato.com

As for a bug - there's no known issue with Windows 7 about this, but what you describe sounds like a basic system conflict.

Let me know how you get on.
Cheers!

tjdj 3:31 AM - 22 April, 2010

I've already completed all the steps to a tee on both those web pages. I'm still not convinced ITCH can work with 64 bit Windows 7. I see other posts on the forums of other people having the same random song load option.

Since this is the case, can you give me a timeline on when the next version of ITCH will be out? And will this version address this issue?

If not, should I downgrade to 32-bit WIn7? If I were to downgrade, are there any issues like random song load with 32 bit Win7.

I would like some answers here. I bought an above spec laptop and it's not an OS issue, but a software issue. Please advise.

Matt-C 2:07 AM - 23 April, 2010

So this only happens on song load?
Can you see if the small bar around the outside of the virtual deck slowly (or quickly) fills up and when this is complete the track plays?

ITCH has been extensively tested on Windows 7. However there may always be bugs that pop up from time to time. But we'll do some more diagnosis of the problem before we can see the cause of your issue.

Cheers!

tjdj 12:48 PM - 23 April, 2010

Yes, and it's fairly random and tends to happen if I push the system (i.e. scrolling through lots and tracks, loading several tracks quickly, etc.).

The green bar is pretty much unaffected when this happens. It stays to the left.

I don't think it's a hardware issue. I've got everything configured per your suggestions, everything shut off, the when I run the same music library on WinXP it runs perfectly. I really thinkg it's a bug of some sort.

Any other suggestions or things I should look at?

tjdj 1:00 PM - 23 April, 2010

If I were go the MAC route, will there be similar problems/bugs? What MAC should I get? Are there similar problems with new MAC OS?

Would this MAC run well?
store.apple.com

Matt-C 5:33 AM - 26 April, 2010

We have many many thousands of users working on Windows with no problems, so that won't be the fault here I'd say. Though saying that a Mac is a great purchase :D

However, the problem at hand...

So you are saying that the small bar around the outside of the virtual deck slowly (or quickly) fills up and when this is complete the track plays? Can you confirm if this is the case with the freeze?

tjdj 1:50 PM - 26 April, 2010

I'm not sure if I'm totally following your question, but I'll try to explain further what happens.

When I load a track, ITCH will freeze immediately before the track is moved over to the tray. So the track never technically gets moved over a tray, ITCH just hangs. The green bar doesn't move one way or the other as well. It hangs/freezes when I try to load a song. Basically, I'll hit shift+left to move a song and ITCH just locks up randomly. Does that help?

5:46 AM, 27 Apr 2010

Matt-C attached a file: Virtual deck loading bar.JPG

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Matt-C 5:47 AM - 27 April, 2010

Can you see the attached image?
Does the bar with the red arrow load when the track freezes (around the virtual deck as shown)? Does the waveform build (start being displayed) when this freeze happens?

tjdj 1:26 PM - 27 April, 2010

I see the image. But I'm not familiar with here would I see this image in ITCH?

I'll try to explain further as to what I see....

When I load a track, the windows circle (in Win7 instead of a hourglass, it's a circle image) spins and spins and basically tells me the program is frozen. So, ITCH is then frozen (Not Responding in the task manager) and I have to close the program and restart. Again, this happens randomly upon song load.

Any thoughts of trying to fix this? Is it a driver issue? Computer issue, etc?

Thanks.

Matt-C 11:31 PM - 27 April, 2010

The image I attached is the virtual deck, but what you are describing is a software freeze, so don't worry about the image now.

Do you have an external hard drive?

Check to see if you have any corrupt files:

Go to your ALL... crate in ITCH.
Click on the box at the top of the first column in the main library view.
This will sort all your tracks by status.
Any corrupt tracks will have a broken CD or iTunes icon.

You will need to delete any of these tracks from your library (Ctrl+delete).

NOTE: Make sure that you re-encode, re-download, or re-rip these tracks and then delete the corrupted versions from your drive so you don't accidentally re-import these corrupt versions of the tracks again.

Let me know how you go and if you find deleting corrupt files fixes things.

tjdj 1:56 AM - 28 April, 2010

I have no corrupt files in my library. I should note I can run the same exact library in Windows XP with no random freeze issues. I'm still feeling like this is a compability issue. Please advise on what I could try next.

tjdj 2:56 AM - 28 April, 2010

I should also note I tested my library and ITCH on another Win7 machine and the exact same "random freeze" issue came up after about 30 minutes of play.

Clearly, there is a bug, software glitch here. With that said, I think your customers deserve to know when this issue will be addressed in a new release of ITCH.

I spent money to buy a laptop based on your website stating ITCH is compatible with Windows 7 and clearly it is not. Please advise.

Matt-C 5:45 AM - 28 April, 2010

If it's not happening on your XP machine then that would indicate that it's not a bug with the software. While I've heard of freezing before, it's normally some sort of system conflict or corruption of data somewhere. (Vista machines are much more likely to have audio conflicts in the system architecture.)

We'd of course tell customers if there was a bug and get a fix out asap. But if we can't reproduce a issue, or the issue is only happening on a certain computer, then the issue will most likely not be with the software.

We'll keep trying to figure out what is going on.

Can you please run the DPC latency checker tool.
This will produce a report for latency or IRQ conflicts on your system.
Go here: www.thesycon.de

Download then play audio form the software and run the DPC.exe.

You will be shown a bar graph , GREEN (SAFE) Yellow (Caution) Red (Dropouts).
You will also be given a report of any conflicting hardware or software.

Let me know what the results are.

tjdj 11:18 PM - 29 April, 2010

I got this error message:
Some device drivers on this machine behave bad and will probably cause drop-outs in real-time audio and/or video streams. To isolate the misbehaving driver use Device Manager and disable/re-enable various devices, one at a time. Try network and W-LAN adapters, modems, internal sound devices, USB host controllers, etc.

***
Now I'm trying to troubleshoot...

tjdj 12:13 AM - 30 April, 2010

I disable the wireless card, disabled the ethernet...

Should i also disable "PCI Bus" or anything with "PCI" in it?

Matt-C 3:43 AM - 30 April, 2010

Have you updated the laptop's BIOS, drivers or firmware?

As for devices, try disabling the webcam if you haven't, that along with wireless and bluetooth are known for causing audio conflicts.

tjdj 1:19 PM - 30 April, 2010

I believe my BIO and other drivers are up to date but I'll double check that. What firmware would need updated? The firmware in Serato is up to date.

Are there any other system tweaks you'd suggest? I think in other forums people disabled the bios? Is that correct?

Thx for the help.

tjdj 2:22 PM - 30 April, 2010

Would I encounter the same spike issues, dpc issues if I ran my Dell laptop on XP mode (available in Win7 Pro). I'm just wondering if this is a dell laptop issue or a Win7/operating system issue?

Dj cuervo 4:58 PM - 30 April, 2010

I'm getting the random freezing on my macbook. It is with a PC format NTFS drive which is read only on the Mac. I think that could be the issue. I going to buy a new external drive for Mac. It is western digital drive that I can't stop from going to sleep. Does Itch have issue with a read only drive NTFS drive on MACs.

tjdj 2:53 AM - 1 May, 2010

I'm about to give up on my Dell laptop. Could you help me isolate the problem...
*Is it a device/driver issue?
*Is it a Windows 7 64-bit issue (note: I can run on XP with all the bad stuff and get no dropouts, but I've got my wireless, ethernet, and internal sound device disabled and I'm still getting the dropout note in the DPC latency test.

How do I fix this? Or it is just Dell's quality is no good? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My last resort is possibly trying to run the program in Windows XP mode (through Win7 Pro Edition) - do you think that would make a difference?

Matt-C 5:49 AM - 3 May, 2010

If you can run on XP well, but Windows 7 isn't, then there will most likely be some sort of poor W7/Vista driver issue, or some W7/Vista feature that is hogging resources. If there is no updated Driver or BIOS from Dell for your machine then chances are XP is your safest bet...

Have you tried disabling the laptop soundcard yet? That could be conflicting.

Your BIOS is basically the layer that sits between the hardware and your software/operating system (Windows). Disabling that would probably kill the machine!
:D

I am not sure WIndows XP mode would help, that's more a compatibility thing, you'd still be running Windows 7 OS tasks etc.

tjdj 1:05 AM - 21 May, 2010

Downgraded to 32-bit Windows 7. SAME ISSUE. Getting this message again. Can you please help me identify what is causing the system conflict? Further, why does Serato Itch work perfectly on my Windows XP machine and with Windows 7 I can't get it work? Please help and explain.

tjdj 1:05 AM - 21 May, 2010

What USB Host controllers should I disable?

Matt-C 5:33 AM - 21 May, 2010

Just to confirm the following:

The freeze only happens on song load?
Happens randomly.
If it happens, and then you reload the tack to the deck the freeze doesn't happen again?
All your files have been Analyzed in the offline player?
How long is the freeze?

tjdj 12:52 PM - 21 May, 2010

Yes. Freeze happens randomly on song load and/or when I push the system (i.e. loading multiple tracks onto various trays at a time). When the freeze happens, the program gets stuck. So I can't reload the song track, the program totally locks up and I have to close it out and restart. Hope that helps.

I'm seriously doubting ITCH's capabilities on Win7. My brand new Dell Laptop should work perfectly with ITCH. I can't understand how a Windows XP machine can work perfectly with ITCH and yet there are issues with Win7. Just a side note.

Matt-C 11:08 PM - 31 May, 2010

XP is a better operating system for audio streaming that Vista/Windows 7 - even on an older machine. Audio streaming prefers the data architecture and the way the OS transports data to any 'power' or 'speed' of processor, which is really only one small part of the equation.

If the program locks up, does it lock up for good? Or come back?
Do you see the CPU meter in the top right hand corner of the screen going red?

1:22 AM, 2 Aug 2010

This help request has been closed due to inactivity.

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