I have no problem with threads I don't like, I have a problem with threads that demand constant attention and go no absolutely nowhere. Discussion, not general demanding.

final scratch killed an entire forum they didn't like, talk about wack. have fun at the unoffical forum, i prefer to get my answers from the people who write the software and not some flamers.

what thread in particular are you referring to?

Well, if you don't like this thing, go to another forum then and discuss the nasty scratchlive.net-moderators that "kill threads they don't like". I'm sure everyone would like to hear about it. More spinning - less annoying talk, dude.

I guess some people want to keep beating the deadhorse Mac vs Pc. Not unless someone scientifically proves one or the other is faster...then I think its redundent as Hell. I go to both forums...never know what someone has to add as far as SSL is concerned.

Depakote, I would like to point out that your accusations are totally unfounded. We have never censored anything or banned anyone. Locking a thread doesn't do anything except encourage people to move on to more relevant discussions. If you have more to say on a topic that gets locked, there is nothing stopping you from starting a new thread saying so.

This forum exists to get people's questions answered, and I for one read every single message that gets posted on this forum. Every minute that we spend reading and answering the messages here is a minute that we're not spending improving the product. We do it because people love our attitude to customer support. The last thing anyone wants is for us to waste our time reading the same question over and over and having to answer it multiple times, because it takes us away from more important things.

I answered your question twice. You either didn't read the answer or you didn't get it because you kept asking the same question - now that's wack. I want to spend my time constructively answering people's questions, and I don't want to get into a pointless argument with someone who doesn't want to take the word of the experts. Josh has locked a few threads, and I agreed with his decision to lock those threads because they were going in circles.

You are not the only person to get their discussion shut down in this way, and until now no one has complained or started up a new thread to continue the conversation. I take that to mean that mostly people have taken the hint and agreed that the conversation had taken a dive into the dark void of pointlessness.

Have we ever locked a thread where people were complaining about our product or our company? No way! But when two people start spiralling into name calling and wasting disk space on our server, we're gonna put a stop to it. Likewise if someone asks the same question over and over, pays no attention to our answer and then says "I will say no more on the subject" it sounds like the subject is closed.

Depakote, we have taken your feedback on board, like we do with every piece of feedback that we recieve. And like all feedback, we weigh it and balance it against the feedback of everyone else. With that in mind, if anybody else thinks that we are wrong to lock threads that are going in circles I would like to hear about it. We take pride in being the best at everything we do, and that includes customer support.

you guys rule.
i have never in my entire life seen people so dedicated to making a product work.
Josh

Depakote, I started a thread not too long ago on trying to work around WMA files that have DRM. It got locked and I was kind of surprised when it happened, but I can see how from the moderators point of view, we were nearing, by nowadays standards, treading thin ice by talking about how to strip DRM to make files SSL 'playable'.

Now depending on the persons point of view, the moderators could 'fuel/aid/promote' this DRM discussion by letting it unfold even though they may not 'participate' in the discussions. Or they could do their part in discouraging the behavior of using music ilegally. I personally feel they went with the latter and decided that thread could in some way, shape, or form be condoning some piracy of sorts. Now I didn't start out the thread with those intentions in the least. I'd just like to be able to legally buy and download a WMA file, convert it to an MP3 and then play it in SSL - that's all. So I figured someone on this forum (resourceful bunch that we are), might know of a way to strip DRM from WMA files.

So Depakote, you seem like an intelligent and passionate person, I'd say you should reconsider not posting here ever again because you have had some good (very good) things to say in the past. It's ALL of us who make this forum what it is.

Haiku:

To make the file play,
Burn it, a CD will do.
Then rip, load and play...

AJ, we were discussing about a solution which was talking less time and work. I also was not thinking about evading the copy protection, it was just intended for those who (legally!) bought protected files and want to use them with SSL, which is a totally legit reason. I was also a bit surprised about the SSL team closing down the thread, but I understand that talking about piracy is not a good idea on an official board. Personally I have seen much more serious and crucial conversations here and also on the unofficial board, where users were offering other users that they know a way how to bypass the trial mode of a software and how to unlock it. They were offering this "service" to the other user, which really sucks.
We are all artists to some extent, and we dont want to be ripped off either, so at least showing some respect and not promoting piracy (software and music, I know some users here who officially said they wont buy any music, they will only download it) in an official board.

AJ, allthough I understand your explenations and it sounds very valid to me (if a thread is going in circles, its time to lock it) I dont understand why you closed following thread scratchlive.net . It was about a "competetive" (haha) product, and I find it important to talk about the pros and cons about SSL and also other products, so new upcoming customers now exactly what they can expect from SSL and why they should consider buying this rather then any crash software. I would really prefer giving a short explenation and some reasons when you close a thread. That should make it easier for anyone to understand why a thread has been closed.

I locked that thread because it had become somewhat emotional, with a few flames in there, if people can stick to rational discussion, no problem. It really wasn't going anywhere IMO.

Most prospective customers seem to jump in with "hey I was going to buy FS...but" type post, and get answered in short order. I don't think that thread would have done anything but make them wonder why everyone is so uptight.

Well I figured I was over reacting so I came back on the forum, but now that I've seen your post AJ post I'm totally upset! My complaint wasn't about not getting the answer I wanted, the Mac vs. PC debate, or my thread in general. It was about killing threads. How can you say that's totally unfounded when you admit to doing so to "encourage people to move on to more relevant discussions?" I thought the whole purpose of having a forum is for people to have certain discussions whether the moderators find them relevant or not. Yes, I had nothing else to say but that doesn't mean nobody else did (in my thread or the others that you have ended). Yes, you could start a new one but then why end a thread to begin with? You have already answered that question so it's no surprise to see that people don't start new ones. You have basically told them you don't want to see that discussion further discussed on the forum! The thing that really pisses me off is that you have the nerve to say that asking you my questions was wack! I wasn't trying to ask the same questions twice just trying to understand the situation. It's obvious you are just upset because I may disagree with you. Boy, who the hell is the person that would possibly question your superiority? Just someone that spent over $500 on you product along with others and have also spent a lot of time bringing forward different issues that have improved your product. That's really wack isn't it? Well I guess it is if someone may disagree with you. I also don't see why you would take some much pride in your customer support because it's really not that great. Maybe it is if you compare it to the only other product that was around. I think great support would be being able to contact someone on the phone or even by email for help, not going onto a forum with a crappy format and having to keep checking back to see if you got an answer. I will be selling my SSL and searching for a product that can live up to it's claims and that treats their customers right. That's the company that will be #1. Too bad I wasted so much time with this second rate one. The end!

Depakote, tell us how you really feel -:)

depakote, I dont want to convince you to keep your SSL, but honestly, its right now the best dj mp3 vinyl thing. Plus, I dont understand how you come up to the conclusion that there is no support available through either eMail nor through fone? IIRC, Shauwns phone was posted several time on this board, and also the email address has been communicated support@serato.com and support@rane.com . I agree that these addresses etc are not clearly visible here/easy to find. They should be made sticky somewhere here. Or at least provide a page with a compiled list of ways to contact support.

About your comment about "crappy" format, this might be your opinion, but I disagree on it. Its a simple format, easy to use, not too many buttons and all that fancy stuff, that is my opinion about that. I dont understand what that has to do with customer support.

Someone needs his feeding, blanket, and nap... babies can, and do, get cranky.

Yikes, Such hostillity over a pointless debate. I was really happy when they locked that thread because it was going nowhere. I think if you wanted that specific question answered, then learn some assembly, and high level programming languages, get both systems and create your own benchmark testing app for SSL and then sell it for some $$ or at the very least you will have somewhat of understanding as to why this question can't really be answered in laymans terms and some sort of engineering degree. And actually the thread is just locked not killed, otherwise people wouldn't be able to even view the post.

Depakote is entitled to his/her feelings, as are the rest of us. The only thing I question is the bad mouthing of the SSL support. I work for an IT company, and have ran into software problems where the program cost thousands of dollars (let alone the hardware to run it), and their tech support couldn't touch Serato/Rane with a 10' pole. Granted, SSL is the only product by these companies that I am familiar with so I may be somewhat biased. But the entire reason I bought SSL was because right before I was to purchase FS, the entire forum was killed. I knew there were 10.3 issues, but only because I had researched for the product for months (and then was forced to read Google caches of the forum).

Let me know how much you want for your SSL, I would be interested in picking up an extra unit if the price is right.

When I wrote to support@rane.com I spoke to Shaun and he was very nice but could only give limited support and told me to go onto the forums to speak to the Serato team. I have been on this forum tons on time and have never seen Serato tell anyone to write to their email for help. I didn't even know it existed. What is Serato's international telephone support phone number? I don't think one exists. If so I haven't seen that mentioned either. You say you like the simple format of this board nik but I have heard you say more than once that it needs some certain key features. You know like being notified that you have gotten a reply to a post so you can check and see if you got an answer to your questions? Even then you wouldn't really know until you checked but it would save some time just randomly having to check. Why doesn't Serato email you themselves from your posts on the board for support? Oh wait, I forgot I'm being a baby. When you only spend over half a grand on a product that has problems this is the support you should expect to receive!

I've already explained my complaint isn't about my question and would say that it was pretty much killed because it was forced to end and can no longer continue. Yes, you can't look back at it's life but that's about it. Yes, another thread could be started but I imagine it would just be ended too or why would the first one? Anyway, like I said this wasn't about my post in general. Just about any that have been forced to end and the others that will be. I also agree that I may have been over reacting but not to AJ's response. Saying that asking a question is wack is totally ridiculous. I've already explained that point however, so I'm not going to elaborate. I also don't see how you can say a companies support is great just because others are horrible.

I am now starting college to get a degree to get some of my questions about SSL answered. I will get back to you guys in four years when I've completed the necessary courses!

Maybe my question can't be explained in layman's terms but I just thought that was amusing!

i sometimes like busting depakotes balls...but i have to agree with him on this one

I have to admit the same to you tashafa but at least we know we have some!

Serato doesn't even email notifications of updates unlike the unofficial forum!

You've been able to track discussions for a couple of weeks.

There is a phone number for us on our website, SSL is actually a Rane product, which is why you should call them for support.

If you click my name <---- you can see plain as day my email address.

What I read from your posts depakote, is that because we disagree with you and are prepared to actually mod our forum that you think our support is wack.

I'm prepared to lock any thread which decends into flames or lameness, if you've any experience on forums, you'd know that it's a rare thread indeed that recovers from that. That is the definition of moderating.

Nope, does not work here.

works in every browser I've tried...

Whilst I'm emphatically on Josh & AJs side in this whole debate, I'm not seeing any email addresses for Josh. This is what's in his profile for me:

Name: Josh
Homepage: www.serato.com
Groups: Serato, Moderator

This is on IE6 and FireFox 1.0PR.

FWIW, the closest I've ever come to Serato's level of support is from Rio for the Karma mp3 player, but even that's not as good. And depakote - your opinion is yours and that's fine, but if your only problem with the product is your perceived lack of support, why switch to something like FS2, which you know (a) is an inferior product and (b) has even worse support. Seems like you're punishing yourself for no reason there....

aahhh crap, my bad guys, only mods can see that! oops.

Hey depakote.


This is coming soon, along with a bunch of other features including private messaging.

We've already explained why we have written our own forum but here it is again if you've forgotten:
www.scratchlive.net

Yeah, I know about the number. I called it when I was having problems getting my SSL box to interface with your software. He suggested that I post my problem here to speak to the developers (that's you!) I thought that Rane just manufactured the product. If not why do you refer to it as SSL (Serato Scratch Live) and not RSL (Rane Scratch Live)? You know for a fact it's best for customers to come to you to work out bugs because you make the software! What a cop out!



If you're here to moderate this forum then you should probably spend some more time learning how it functions!



How many times do I need to tell you that it isn't because I disagree with you? I even admitted that I was probably initially over reacting. What really pissed me off was what AJ had to say to me after spending a lot of money and time with your product. The golden rule of customer service is not to insult the customer no matter how you feel about what he or she has to say. It's not like I was being a total asshole either. I know how a total asshole can act because I have worked in customer service and I can tell you it is no where near my behavior! But wait I thought it wasn't your product!



What I've read from your posts Josh, is that because you disagree with me you are moding the forum! I'm just surprised you haven't shut this thread down yet!



Wow, you must haven't dealt with many companies because most of the ones I have dealt with you can actually call and talk to someone to get all your answers. You don't have to go and post threads and hope to get one. I don't know FS2 is an inferior product because I haven't used it. How can anybody until they do? There are also other products coming out from other companies and I bet one of them will dominate this field.

I think you mean the rane support number.




Thanks for the advice.



What are you talking about?

Rubbish. With most companies you can call and talk to an untrained, minimum-wage moron who has no idea what your problem is and just knows how to read scripts. Personally, that doesn't help me. What I mean by support is being able to talk directly to the developers of the product, and getting real accurate examples from the horse's mouth.

Would you have preferred the answer to your original CPU usage question to have been "Please shutdown your computer and restart it. Then call back if it still doesn't work"?

Anyway, like I said before it's your money and your right to do what you feel with it. I've long since given up arguing with people on forums...

yeah, what companies are those again? more lame crap, this thread should be locked too!

If you are selling your Scratch Live now, why continue your 'piss-fest'?

ummm....yeah they do.

We're not going to lock this discussion, because I would like depakote to have his say, and I'd like everyone else to have their say as well, even if it spirals into pointless arguing. In my opinion even pointless arguing is on-topic in this particular discussion, because we are debating the rightness of ending pointless arguments.

Depakote, I am sorry you misunderstood my statement, but I didn't say anything about your question being 'wack', all I said was that repeating the same question over and over wastes our time. The original question was a good one, and I am always happy to answer a new question. What was actually said is this:

You: serato shuts down threads they don't like, and that's wack
Me: depakote asks the same question 3 times, and that's wack

I actually regret saying that. Not because I think I accused you falsely, but because it was unnecessary to say that it was wack. On the other hand, your accusation is simply untrue. We have never shut down a thread because we don't like what is being said. The only time Josh has shut down discussion is when:

1. The discussion descends into a flame war
2. People start offering advise on illegal activities
3. People start to hate on the competition

Our reasoning:
1. Flaming people is actually against our terms and conditions for using this forum "be nice to others". I think it's pretty obvious why.

2 The law. It is illegal to host information on how to circumvent or break other laws. While we are committed to never censoring people, as a responsible company, we do need to discourage illegal activity.

3. This is a tricky one. We do it just because we want this forum to be a welcoming place. If someone comes here for the first time and says "I own final scratch, and it works ok for me" and the response is a whole lot of people slamming them hard, it can tend to put people off. I know scratch live is an awesome product, but a lot of people get put off by religious fervour. If people are able to keep their criticisms of our competition on a rational level, and keep emotional exaggeration to a minimum, then we would never shut down any conversation about it.

I'm sorry you feel you've been treated badly my friend, it is a shame to lose someone over such a trivial thing. I admit it was risky to use your own language against you, but I honestly thought you would take it pretty lightly. Apparently I misjudged how upset you were at the time and as a result you are now more upset than ever. For that I apologise. For everything else, I stand firm to our commitment to top-class support and making this forum a nice place to be.

If you still want to divorce yourself from our product, then that is your choice, but I'd like you to know that you are still very welcome here, and I am still committed to answering any questions you have.

Depakote. Why exactly are you doing this? The moderators are awesome. Actually, I think they are doing a wonderful job. Keep it up, guys!

You should be using your computer to make music. Stop complaining about irrelevant things.

<-- quietly moves onto the next topic

Thanks for your apology AJ. I feel that it was pretty half ass but appreciate it anyway. I never really asked the same question more than once. I was very nice and more or less asked you to elaborate. This really pissed you guys off for some reason especially when I said I didn't think I got a good answer. At this time my thread was closed. Why this was done doesn't fit under any of your three reasons to do so. This is why I was first upset. The only reason that it may have remotely come close to was your first one but no one flamed anyone. We just disagreed. I don't even know how you can make this claim when Josh said I was just looking for an answer that made sense to me and demanded nothing. You said You were telling me that you thought my discussion was irrelevant so it was locked. This is what I consider censoring because this is your opinion, not necessarly everybody else's that will read the thread. It seems like you consider anything a pointless argument that you don't agree with. Maybe you came of harsh because you are used to a lot of people here treating you like a star and not questioning anything you say? I guess I took this so hard because I was one of those people. I do admit that I went overboard complaining about your product and service because I was upset. They are good but feel they could be great if you implanted some of the things I and others have suggested. Well I'm tired of having repeat myself. Good luck! Peace out!

depakote, sorry, but _you_ are unfair right now. AJ is not treated as a star, its not always right what he says etc. I can say that there are a couple of other users who always question what anyone here says (including myself, which is sometimes a bite nerve wrecking for other ;) But if you got a point, you have to explain why... from my POV).

About your thread, seriously it has been explained serveral times that you cant easily compare both OS'es and cant simply compare the CPU usage/free time on both system, _because_ reasons which were said there. There is a whole discipline which is only about benchmarking, and its not SSL-teams task to do benchmarking comparisons which arent objective anyway. It depends on so many factors (hardware, ram, os, compiler, gui, libraries etc etc), esp. if you compare two different OS's. This has been said several time in the thread, and you were asking about the same question again and again (allthough they were not worded the same). So from that point that thread was going in a circle.

We (normal users) still cant see either your email address nor your phone number. Also I suggest you put a link on the top right part of the site (labeled "inside" where you can find the "how to buy" links etc.) with some general contact info, how to mail to support, call support by phone etc.

always have to have the last word eh?

s

just play nice everyone!
:)

depakote please stop this, i have honestly never come accross such helpful and even handed moderation as here. the patience they have shown you alone is quite astounding.

You'll see some changes to the forum after the next release.

Does anyone know what 'depakote' actually means?


I hope this isn't your DJ name too

ok, now i'm scared

we all love you depakote! no harm done! just put the gun down!

.......

:-P

I am pretty fucking wack aren't I? (Seriously)

JERRY,JERRY,JERRY,JERRY!!!

I hope you Serato guys are still reading this thread even though its just a rambling of someone trying to squeek their way out of looking stupid, and failing. Anyway, I myself am in the support business for a large chip manufacturing company called Xilinx and I am so impressed with this forum and the type of support that it provides. Allowing issues to be known to all customers before you have a chance to get your hands dirty can be risky, but you seem to be pulling it off really well. After reading some of the posts and seeing the level of professionalism and response I am happy to say that I will soon be the proud owner of an SSL system. And to people like depakote and others who wish to waste the time of the moderators by arguing petty missunderstandings I would like to say please stop. I want these guys to focus on important things like key correction so that I can mix from a remix U2 - Salome into Underworld - Push Upstairs and not have Bono sound like Jessica Simpson.(hint)

I like Xilinx FPGA's, especially the Virtix II. Cool stuff!
You guys always seem to stay one step ahead of Altera :-)

Wait I thought this thread was dead. :D

WOW! I have yet to meet someone who has any knowledge of our products. If you know what cmos is I'll be embarrassed.

I'm not trying to squeak my way out of looking stupid. I just happen to let people like you and others bring me down at times. I still believe in everything I have said although I do think I could have been using my time more productively. Kind of like right now...

uuuhhhgh!

Yes, I know what depakote is because I take it. I am bipolar so forgive me for blowing things out of proportion. I do believe I made some valid points but did get carried away. I perceive things differently at different times and can't help it. I get tunnel vision and it's hard to look outside the box. I do plan on keeping SSL. It's a pretty amazing application. Is the best in it's field? I don't know but I have my money vested in it so I'm here for the ride even if the road is bumpy at times. Such is life. I'm just trying to learn to take my foot off the break. Love or hate me DJ Depakote will be around for awhile. I know I definitely go through both emotions so fasten your seatbelt. Peace!

PS: Don't worry I won't kill anyone! LOL :)

good to hear depakote ^_^ ... hope to see some posts from you in the future.

Thanks for putting up with me! :) Sorry if I was an asshole...

i too struggle with some form of bipolarism, or something to that nature.
i know that at times i will become so enraged for no apparent reason, but i'll just go off on anyone and everyone around me.
even little things would set me off sometimes.
i'm working to get better.
so i for one understand a little bit depakote about where you're coming from.
guys let's just forgive and forget.
i've seen some people on this forum get bashed for talking differently than others, or some people just bash other people b/c they can.
let's all be adults and treat everybody with respect,
Josh

here here. all forgiven

group hug

:D

(we need simlie icons on this board!) hint hint :-)

That's for the love guys! :) It can really make a difference especially at times like these when the word can seem so cynical. Hang in there Josh, I know it can be ruff at times. It's nice to know others that can relate! Peace.

nah, keep it ol'school... at least it's tough to do an :eyeroll: with good old ASCII...

BTW, totally OT: If you love ASCII art, you should check the mediaplayer called vlc (www.videolan.org) it plays your beloved videos as ASCII art if you like :) Awesome.

i have vlc, never seen this feature. do explain.

"Can you please explain?" would be a little bit more friendly.

Go to Settings -> General settings -> Picture -> Advanced Options -> Video output module -> colored ASCII (I am assuming these menu titles as my version is in german V0.7.2)

"do explain" is actually quite a friendly term nik.

Yeah I've seen the ascii thing, pretty funny, some guys even made an ascii version of quake a couple years back - webpages.mr.net . Pointless, but good geeky fun nevertheless.

0(-_o)0

sorry for my bluntness. i found that under os x version (english), but can't get it work :(

Josh, english is not my native language, and it sounded harsh to me, thanks for the clarification.

DJ 3pm, I apogolize.

yeh i tried the ascii art option in os x as well.. seems broken--vlc crashes when that option is enabled.