good experiment...eye opening, and sadly is the truth of where DJ'ing is at..... this is probably happening in every city right now. Part of the problem is the number of people who consider themselves DJ's far outway the number of venues who need DJ's. In some city's especially suburbs business are struggling and any way to cut costs becomes attractive. Ultimatley though, it's on us to keep our value.

on a side note, I believe that experiment was done in the area I live based on some of the areas mentioned. I actually think I might know a couple of the DJ's who replied since they claim to be the first ones to do this and that.... haha

i quit doing gigs bc of undercutters i was making no money bc unmentioned DJs were providing free photography and plasma screen video collages + Dj set for weddings for 400 dollars.........after about 5 big wedding gigs lost and explaining to the customers you get what you pay for i said fuck it, now i spin for fun and i dont mind one bit

wow. sad to see how theses A-holes do it. Usually venues & guys like that won't last. I think of it this way: There are many who say they play a sport like football but there are really only a handful in big leagues like NFL. Forget the losers and the strong will survive

i have to disagree its not about the losers or good and bad djs but cheap customers......

i would do it for 125, ill just bring my vci & my air horn

I recall being asked to do an event for an organization. They knew my rate which, at the time, was $300 for 4 Hours (with extra charge added if it went over). For the event they were doing, the price was rather reasonable. I did the same event 2 times: once each year (It was a yearly event). They did the same event last year, but last year I didn't do it. Said organization (which will go unnamed) was under new management and they didn't see fit to pay me the $300 and instead went with a guy who offered to do it for $50. I happened to be in the area on my way to do a gig downtown and passed by the place. I had time to kill so for kicks, I stopped in for a bit. I've seen some bad DJ's in my life, but this was horrendous. Someone slamming records offbeat would've sounded better. The crossfader was ALWAYS open, and he had no mixing ability, ability to beatmatch, or scratching skill but would do a little "wicka" randomly throughout songs while waiting to put it in. Meanwhile, I'm observing his song choice as I walk behind the table and start noticing he's got some good song choices lined up and is missing every perfect opportunity to bring them in. It was just sad to watch and painful to listen to as he apparently had no idea what a gain knob was for considering his meters NEVER left the red. The audience didn't appear very pleased. But you get what you pay for, and $50 for a DJ for 4 hours is going to attract such.

^That is one of those reasons why undercutting is bad, it not only screws the dj who was there but also the venue.

I wish vinyl was still the medium used for djing.

I don't use Vinyl myself. I came up on it, but I am not carrying a milkcrate ever again if I can avoid it, lol. These days, I use the Numark NS7. But it's not even about the equipment as this guy had two Technics 1200's (looked like MK2's to me), and an old Numark mixer that appeared to be in surprisingly good condition. Control medium of choice: standard CV-02's, an SL3 (Yup, this guy had an SL3), and SSL.

I meant it as if there wasn't any dvs systems out and only vinyl dj's it would be a lot harder for mr dj from limewire to hookup his laptop and dj away with a pirated virtual dj.

puma, limewire is soo 2010!

DJ's have been undercutting other DJ's ever since there have been DJ's. I don't see this changing any time soon. The only solution I can offer to keep from getting undercut is to not suck as a DJ. Don't give the owner an excuse to get rid of you. Most club owners I have had experience working with are not looking to get a cheaper DJ, they are interested in making more money. They are not going to make less money on drinks just to save money on a cheaper DJ. They will get a cheaper or more expensive DJ, if they think that DJ is going to make them more money.

I respect the point of it, but thats such a set up man. Besides being a terribly boring read it was a complete set up. What did you expect people to do? Times are rough and people need work. If you clean houses for 300$ and someone offers to do it for 250$ and has all the same equipment whatya supposed to do? thats capitalism, it sucks but such is life. Unless your a big name your going to be getting undercut and outbid on projects for the rest of your life its the way of the world. Its just a problem now because so many people are "dj's" these days. But when it comes down to it its simple economics

This is the problem, people have this "it's the way of the world" attitude. No it's not the way of the world, we have a choice and a responsibility to change things when it isn't right. If it's something you care and are passionate about, than hopefully you won't let it fall at the waste side of popular opinion. You are a part of that populace, so help change it for the better.

Undercutting or undercharging is a very elementary in tactic and appealing to everyone. We have come accustom to it in our Walmart society. Yes, it's cheaper, but is it better? probably not (items made for Walmart aren't the same items at other stores.) Sorry, this is spilling over into social stuff, but overall we need to change the mind-set of people. And that starts by showing people what's right and what's wrong. Most of these DJ's know it's not right, that's why when you talk to them, they don't admit playing for such a low rate. But will do it under the radar.

DJing is an art and we as DJ's are in charge of controlling it's destiny.

Ok so two dudes are selling a used 1200 mk2 one dude is selling it for 300 the other for 500. Its the same product, same condition which one would you buy?

Club managers don't care how good the DJ is anymore. And its not Dj's who need to change their act its the businesses that hire them.

Im a relatively new Dj and still paying my dues, My skills are pretty good and i can rock a party quite well. But how are you supposed to break into the scene without undercutting someone at some point or another?

Luckily i found an older dj to mentor me and let me open for them, split some private events with me, etc.

Let me stop you right there. You cannot compare TWO TURNTABLES (of the same model) two TWO DJ'S no matter how hard you try. So, STOP RIGHT THERE.

Here's a better comparison using turntables.

Everyone is selling their MKII's for $500. Would you sell your Technics Gold for the same price? I doubt that.

Well, no wonder. New DJ's usually have a hard time understanding the basics.

And, you actually answered your own question with the mentor answer. There are many ways to break into the scene.... and undercutting should not be on anyone's list.

If the tables are exactly the same, sure get the cheaper one. But if the two owners were also exactly the same, than question why one would be cheaper than the other. They're always a reason.

You break into the scene by doing some research. Find an off night that no one is spinning on and make it pop, offer to open up for resident DJ's. People will see your talent or not see your talent.

Undercutting may get you in the door, but you're probably undercutting for a reason, so that door isn't going to last long. And you've also pissed on some people that were probably more than willing to help you along the way.

"And you've also pissed on some people that were probably more than willing to help you along the way. "

That is especially important.

This past week I got a gig from a DJ I haven't talked to in years. Yes. Years. That's what happens when you make good connections with people and keep your options open.

nm

Yeah, like that article said, if you want to spin out, get to know other dj's. Sort of similar, but not too similar, you see doctors fresh out of College mentoring alongside some doctors that have been in it for years, they just don't get their degrees and go to a hospital and say, "pay me half his pay and I'll cut all those people open for you."

I'd rather open up for someone for $100 or $150 then go in and try to take their night for $150.
DJ's talk and they put the word out about who is doing what.

This argument applies to all aspects of life:

Pay more for the Mac which works or the cheaper PC with quirks.
Pay more for the Acura with all the looks/whistles you love or settle for the Honda that still gets you from point A to B.
Pay more for a high end escort or settle for Craigslist and pick up a skank.
Pay more for a competent DJ/VJ/MC with proper skills and/or eq or get some guy who undercuts everyone, brings junk (in both eq and skills).

I must agree. Talk about comparing Apples to Oranges... That's not even the same ballpark, let alone the same sport.

Eh point is i agree with what you all are saying....And i would never undercut another DJ without at least talking to them first and building some sort of relationship where we could split a night or what not

but to me its as simple as dollars and cents. Which is why i made the turntable comparison.

Shit i got laid off from my day job so they can pay some other schlub half what they were paying me, like i said its all about the bottom line anymore.

And comparing Djing to being a doctor lol talk about out of the same ballpark

It's not only about undercutting someone who's at a spot, but even going to a spot that doesn't currently have a dj and offering $100 a night is bad.
That owner will never want to pay $3 or $400 a night after paying you or anyone else $100

trololol

haha I think I saw that ad on seattle craigslist, glad I never even replied...
- it's an interesting social experiment though - almost makes me want to start a company and whore out the undercutters lol (nm)(nh)

Haha. I saw the ad too.

Please elaborate.

Yeah no trolling here.
I believe this is serious and it affects all djs. Even radio guys have gotten undercut and they're damn good as djs

Here is the problem with these undercutting threads..

They always under the assumption that the undercutter is no good/has no skill/can't read a crowd and that venue will fail because dj X got undercut..

This is a fair point.

I totally agree with you on this.

I also think the problem is that people do not think this goes on ALL THE TIME with just about any other profession.

Well... just think about it this way...
Your equipment is made up from parts shipped in from and manufactured by the lowest bidders :P

thats the point I was trying to make earlier. However People tried to call that comparing apples to oranges. Which makes no sense to me how they dont see the corelation. Like i said before it is simple economics.

here is what i suggest. works for me but hey i'll throw it out there. NETWORK WITH WHO YOU RESPECT. basically i make it a point to be known and know who I respect & think is a real DJ in my city. from there we all are going to have gigs that we can toss back in forth. whether its that gig that is the same time as your residency that you can miss or just something that isnt your cup of tea you want to pass on. along with my own personal hustle it gets me what i need. other than that i can give two fucks about this undercutters because usually if they arent trying to pay the right amount it aint where i wanna spin any damn way. If i really want to spin there i'll find my way in the door.