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Getting the most out of your Win 7-64 system for ssl.
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Getting the most out of your Win 7-64 system for ssl.
endever
1:09 AM - 28 September, 2011
So after doing a recent update to both my SSL driver ( 2.2 - 2.3.1 ) and my windows system, I ran into some heavy issues. The system before any updates was solid and glitch free at a buffer setting of 2, with screen refresh at 60 and audio cache @ 30. I was happy until I decided to do the updates. So I have spent the last 2 days hell bent on figuring out how to make my system power SSL with reasonable settings and be glitch free with all the current updates.
So what am I working with? I have an HP G62 laptop with a core duo T4500 2.3ghz processor. It is running 4gb of ddr2 RAM and it is running Win. 7-64. Needless to say it's not the fastest puter out there, but for $550 bucks it's got a lot of bang. It is sufficiently above Serato's minimum specs, although I feel they are shooting a little low to use full feature sets. The system is stripped pretty much of everything except what is needed to run SSL and go online and pull needed files and what not. I did leave a CD/DVD burner feature and of course Quicktime must be installed. So what am I getting at here. Basically you have to strip the system down quite a bit if your close to minimum specs for SSL.
How stripped down are we talking here? I mean STRIPPED. I will list what is done just so you have an idea:
1. All unneeded services have been turned off via msconfig.
2. All startup features have been turned off that don't effect the system via msconfig.
3. All the windows optimizing tricks have been employed. Links are on this forum; I'm sure your aware of them.
4. All drivers have been disabled via device manager for all audio, wireless, printer, everything that SSL doesn't need.
5. Windows defender, firewall, updater, UAC and Pretty much every other windows maintenance feature has been disabled via services application and or the application itself. There are tutorials all over the I-net on how to do this.
6. Pretty much every service/ EXE process that is not needed is stopped in task manager. I was able to get the computer down to around 25 running tasks ( including task manager ) and literally leaving only what is needed to run Win. and SSL.
7. The internet has tutorials on how to speed up Win. 7-64 doing all kinds of tweaks in computer advanced settings and desktop settings. I only did the ones that were in menus that can be gotten from control panel or properties tabs. None of the crazy BIOS, or Registry stuff.
8. I run no back ground ( no picture ), no Anti Virus, no screen saver, no visual effects ( except a few ) and no search indexing. < again on the I-Net.....
9. I played with the virtual memory settings until I found one that gave me the most performance. Although stock is pretty damn good.
10. I set the external drive for faster performance by using this method: hotbutteredit.com
Be WARNED..........YOU MUST MANUALLY EJECT VIA SAFELY REMOVE HARDWARE TO DO THIS........
11. My internal HDD is CLEAN. As in nothing on it except the Serato files. No music, no documents, nothing. I even went so far as to disable the games from the system ( again the I-net has tutorials ). The internal drive contains nothing but the essential programs and files needed to run.
If that sounds crazy and down right anal, your right! It pays off though. My system at idle via task manager runs at about 620mb of used memory ( including the task manager app ). Of course the CPU is at 0% usage. With SSL and task manager running, the system with music and every effect in the que on, is idling at 1.1gb and cpu usage runs between 0-40%. That is lower by almost a 1gb than a standard system setup and the cpu usage is lower by about 10-20%. The average Win. 7-64 system at idle with no programs running is usually around 2gb. My system is set to go about as fast as you can make a core duo go.
What does it get you? Well I can run audio cache and screen refresh at full on ( 60 & 60 respectively ). The buffer setting to keep the dropouts at zero is 4. That is to say that you can play with the screen refresh and audio cache to get a lower buffer if desired. I also have the Hi Fi re-sampler on. I found that you can't get below 2 and 3 will dropout if you get heavy with FX and scrolling through menus. There are some differences between 2.3.1 & 2.X.X I found. The newer update seems to have less latency with higher buffer settings. 4 is acceptable, but lower settings may be desired for the heavy scratcher. There will of course be marked improvement if you keep your library on the internal HDD. I carry 320gb of music with me everywhere I go and I don't like to keep it on my internal drive; even if I have the space. Of course with a higher spec computer you can again expect better performance. My point of this thread, is that a cheap laptop just above minimum specs, can be made to perform as well as a higher spec machine; even with performance settings at their extremes.
The cons of course. This computer is a paper weight when not used with Serato. With no security services running I have to be very careful about what I do online and what I put on the computer. It is a nice media transfer machine if you want to store ( temporarily ) files that will be moved to another source. It is also no good for passing the time. Seeing as how SSL is the only real program on the machine, I have even debated removing Adobe reader and Active X. It's almost a shame to have a computer that is basically a $500 paper weight. But it is a very cheap tool to get the job done.
I know that I was vague about what was actually done, but that is why this is in a discussion forum. If you have questions, or suggestions, please post up. Again the whole idea of this thread was to give people ideas for making there current low power comp pull the heavy duty job of running SSL even with the performance features set high.
So what am I working with? I have an HP G62 laptop with a core duo T4500 2.3ghz processor. It is running 4gb of ddr2 RAM and it is running Win. 7-64. Needless to say it's not the fastest puter out there, but for $550 bucks it's got a lot of bang. It is sufficiently above Serato's minimum specs, although I feel they are shooting a little low to use full feature sets. The system is stripped pretty much of everything except what is needed to run SSL and go online and pull needed files and what not. I did leave a CD/DVD burner feature and of course Quicktime must be installed. So what am I getting at here. Basically you have to strip the system down quite a bit if your close to minimum specs for SSL.
How stripped down are we talking here? I mean STRIPPED. I will list what is done just so you have an idea:
1. All unneeded services have been turned off via msconfig.
2. All startup features have been turned off that don't effect the system via msconfig.
3. All the windows optimizing tricks have been employed. Links are on this forum; I'm sure your aware of them.
4. All drivers have been disabled via device manager for all audio, wireless, printer, everything that SSL doesn't need.
5. Windows defender, firewall, updater, UAC and Pretty much every other windows maintenance feature has been disabled via services application and or the application itself. There are tutorials all over the I-net on how to do this.
6. Pretty much every service/ EXE process that is not needed is stopped in task manager. I was able to get the computer down to around 25 running tasks ( including task manager ) and literally leaving only what is needed to run Win. and SSL.
7. The internet has tutorials on how to speed up Win. 7-64 doing all kinds of tweaks in computer advanced settings and desktop settings. I only did the ones that were in menus that can be gotten from control panel or properties tabs. None of the crazy BIOS, or Registry stuff.
8. I run no back ground ( no picture ), no Anti Virus, no screen saver, no visual effects ( except a few ) and no search indexing. < again on the I-Net.....
9. I played with the virtual memory settings until I found one that gave me the most performance. Although stock is pretty damn good.
10. I set the external drive for faster performance by using this method: hotbutteredit.com
Be WARNED..........YOU MUST MANUALLY EJECT VIA SAFELY REMOVE HARDWARE TO DO THIS........
11. My internal HDD is CLEAN. As in nothing on it except the Serato files. No music, no documents, nothing. I even went so far as to disable the games from the system ( again the I-net has tutorials ). The internal drive contains nothing but the essential programs and files needed to run.
If that sounds crazy and down right anal, your right! It pays off though. My system at idle via task manager runs at about 620mb of used memory ( including the task manager app ). Of course the CPU is at 0% usage. With SSL and task manager running, the system with music and every effect in the que on, is idling at 1.1gb and cpu usage runs between 0-40%. That is lower by almost a 1gb than a standard system setup and the cpu usage is lower by about 10-20%. The average Win. 7-64 system at idle with no programs running is usually around 2gb. My system is set to go about as fast as you can make a core duo go.
What does it get you? Well I can run audio cache and screen refresh at full on ( 60 & 60 respectively ). The buffer setting to keep the dropouts at zero is 4. That is to say that you can play with the screen refresh and audio cache to get a lower buffer if desired. I also have the Hi Fi re-sampler on. I found that you can't get below 2 and 3 will dropout if you get heavy with FX and scrolling through menus. There are some differences between 2.3.1 & 2.X.X I found. The newer update seems to have less latency with higher buffer settings. 4 is acceptable, but lower settings may be desired for the heavy scratcher. There will of course be marked improvement if you keep your library on the internal HDD. I carry 320gb of music with me everywhere I go and I don't like to keep it on my internal drive; even if I have the space. Of course with a higher spec computer you can again expect better performance. My point of this thread, is that a cheap laptop just above minimum specs, can be made to perform as well as a higher spec machine; even with performance settings at their extremes.
The cons of course. This computer is a paper weight when not used with Serato. With no security services running I have to be very careful about what I do online and what I put on the computer. It is a nice media transfer machine if you want to store ( temporarily ) files that will be moved to another source. It is also no good for passing the time. Seeing as how SSL is the only real program on the machine, I have even debated removing Adobe reader and Active X. It's almost a shame to have a computer that is basically a $500 paper weight. But it is a very cheap tool to get the job done.
I know that I was vague about what was actually done, but that is why this is in a discussion forum. If you have questions, or suggestions, please post up. Again the whole idea of this thread was to give people ideas for making there current low power comp pull the heavy duty job of running SSL even with the performance features set high.
Dj Ready Red
12:15 PM - 28 September, 2011
I'm running Windows 7 64 bit on a Dell Studio 1555 and went from 2.2 to 2,3 with out missing a beat thank goodness! I just surfed around the forum and found the answers for running SSL with Windows 7 64 bit! I have noticed that since I have the 57 life has been better and I stopped using iTunes and see a big difference! I do have music and movies on my external hd but haven't had any issues! And I use a gaming app that turns off any unnecessary programs and optimizes my system for gaming and I added Serato and no problems since Feb. running the app done about 20 gigs with it and no drops or glitches.
endever
9:08 PM - 30 September, 2011
Some new information and updates.
Most people in these forums have heard of, or have used both the DPC trace report and DPC Latency Checker. These tools are helpful in nailing down specific issues. However The lack of understanding of these tools is what makes them seem so alien. First off is the DPC trace report that you can generate using an app provided here on this website. This app is great in showing exactly where the problem is, but not how to fix it. Next is the DPC latency checker app. It too is great at showing a problem, but again, not how to fix it.
What you need to know. ANY latency of over 500 USEC's can ( read as likely will ) cause a USB dropout. The DPC trace report will show you a series of lines with numbers. The number next to the usec term is the latency. It can be any number from 0- several thousand. These blocks have a SYS., or EXE name on top of it. It may be something like USBport.sys, or Iastor.sys. These are the names of the files, or devices that are being read by the DPC tool and it's showing you what there effect on latency is. Obviously any usec number over 500 is a potential problem. This is easier to read than to fix though. Since a USBport.sys isn't an actual file, or device that you can just go into and tweak.
For the DPC latency checker app that can be found online, you can see what you r latency is in real time. The issue is that it doesn't tell you what is causing the problem. It only tells you to start shutting stuff down until the problem goes away. This again is easier said than done. You still need to know what to turn off and what effects what. I am going to tell you what I found.
As for what actually causes issues with the more common Iastor.sys, usbport.sys and other files, I cannot say. They are interconnected in some way or another and cause latency when things are not optimized for them. What does than mean? You have to find a way to eliminate the common problem between them. This is done by shutting down devices and services that utilize them and cause the latency. Sounds simple right? it is actually easier than you think. The Win. system is set up to make life easy when it comes to stopping things from happening. You can go into msconfig and turn off just about everything ( although you don't want to ) and stop programs from starting to begin with. This is one step. You can also go into device manager ( where most of the real work is done ) and stop just about everything else. The device manager is where you go to stop ( disable ) your Wifi, sound cards, and other such things. What you can disable is unlimited and up to you. You can shut off all your usb ports, sound cards, wifi, cd/dvd drives even your internal drive. These things are pretty well marked and if you look at each devices properties it will give you a pretty good idea what it is doing. So where am I going with this?
What you turn off can and will have an effect on your system performance with Serato SSL. The dpc latency checker and report tools will help nail it down. You WILL have to turn off a lot of stuff, but it will only be done in areas that will not hinder the computers actual stability. You can safely turn off pretty much all of your usb host contollers, sound cards, wifi adapters, cd/dvd drives, external mouse drivers, web cam, finger sensors and anything else that isn't directly related to running the computer.
How I go about optimizing my comp. First I start by going into msconfig ( via the run/cmd ) and in the startup menu I uncheck all programs or features I don't want running. Leave on any Win. system stuff like graphics, or needed software. These are easy to spot because it will have a system at the end of it's description. Basically I turn off everything that is a program. I then go to the services menu and turn off things like bluetooth, print spooler ( if i'm not going to print anything ), google updater, and any other features, or services I don't want running. Only turn off what you know. If you don't know what it is, leave it alone.
I then go to device manager and turn off all the above mentioned drivers. I leave things alone like the internal drive, the processors and graphics stuff. I mess mostly with wifi/network adaptors, sound cards, external mice ( not internal, or mouse pad ), cd/dvd drivers ( although not always of course ) and last but not least, the usb controllers. The usb controllers make a big impact. Turning these off will free up lines of communication by reducing clutter in the usb port paths. I.E., having on a driver for an old external mouse you used to use is still using paths in the system. Turning this off free's up the clutter. What I do is run SSL and then one by one start turning off the usb host controllers. You will find that several of them have no effect on the SSL system at all. With the DPC latency tool running you can see in real time if things get better or worse. I check SSL to see that it is working as it should until I have all the usb host drivers off that do not effect Serato. There should be at least 2 to run SSL. There will be at least 4 usb drivers total. 2 for the external drive and 2 for TTM57. 2 drivers will be named and easy to see, the other two will be host controllers. Leave the ROOT HUB drivers alone. At this point you should find that for the most part the latency is almost always in the green.
If you are still getting spikes into yellow and red, run another DPC trace report and see if it's ACPI related. You should see that all of your other issues have been resolved, but you will see that ACPI is still high. In an attempt to fix this, remove your battery from the computer. No need to turn off the computer, or restart. Just be sure that you are plugged in to an a/c source. This should get rid of the spikes that occur every 10-15 seconds. If not, then you may be out of luck there. You can try restarting your comp and see if it helps, but I have found that it either works or it doesn't.
Other things that are important about SSL is the DISPLAY settings in the setup menu. The audio buffer is a cpu eater. It creates a buffer of the audio by eating up cpu power. However this audio buffer has nothing to do with actual audio performance, only how accurate it is in the view window when you zoom in. If you do not zoom in a lot and are pretty much running at standard settings all the time. Leave it down at 15-30. This will free up cpu power. I leave the screen refresh rate at 60 since it seems to chunk any lower. You can see an obvious effect on the audio setting.
Next is the Buffer setting in the main setup menu screen. The lower it is, the higher the cpu load. The higher the setting the slower SSL reacts to your inputs ( like scratching ), but the easier it is on your cpu and the less likely you are to have a dropout. This setting is desired to be as low as possible without dropout of course. If you use a lot of FX you may need to bump it up another notch, because the FX do eat up cpu power.
Last but not least. Double check your files. Re-analyze them to be sure you have no bad files. 2.3.1 is picky and you may find that a few files that passed before, no longer are good for serato. These " BAD " files can cause SSL to have issues regardless of whether or not the file is played. After re-analyzing all the files, I create a new database V2 file using the method described on this forum. This makes for a very happy SSL system.
Take care and hope this helps.
Most people in these forums have heard of, or have used both the DPC trace report and DPC Latency Checker. These tools are helpful in nailing down specific issues. However The lack of understanding of these tools is what makes them seem so alien. First off is the DPC trace report that you can generate using an app provided here on this website. This app is great in showing exactly where the problem is, but not how to fix it. Next is the DPC latency checker app. It too is great at showing a problem, but again, not how to fix it.
What you need to know. ANY latency of over 500 USEC's can ( read as likely will ) cause a USB dropout. The DPC trace report will show you a series of lines with numbers. The number next to the usec term is the latency. It can be any number from 0- several thousand. These blocks have a SYS., or EXE name on top of it. It may be something like USBport.sys, or Iastor.sys. These are the names of the files, or devices that are being read by the DPC tool and it's showing you what there effect on latency is. Obviously any usec number over 500 is a potential problem. This is easier to read than to fix though. Since a USBport.sys isn't an actual file, or device that you can just go into and tweak.
For the DPC latency checker app that can be found online, you can see what you r latency is in real time. The issue is that it doesn't tell you what is causing the problem. It only tells you to start shutting stuff down until the problem goes away. This again is easier said than done. You still need to know what to turn off and what effects what. I am going to tell you what I found.
As for what actually causes issues with the more common Iastor.sys, usbport.sys and other files, I cannot say. They are interconnected in some way or another and cause latency when things are not optimized for them. What does than mean? You have to find a way to eliminate the common problem between them. This is done by shutting down devices and services that utilize them and cause the latency. Sounds simple right? it is actually easier than you think. The Win. system is set up to make life easy when it comes to stopping things from happening. You can go into msconfig and turn off just about everything ( although you don't want to ) and stop programs from starting to begin with. This is one step. You can also go into device manager ( where most of the real work is done ) and stop just about everything else. The device manager is where you go to stop ( disable ) your Wifi, sound cards, and other such things. What you can disable is unlimited and up to you. You can shut off all your usb ports, sound cards, wifi, cd/dvd drives even your internal drive. These things are pretty well marked and if you look at each devices properties it will give you a pretty good idea what it is doing. So where am I going with this?
What you turn off can and will have an effect on your system performance with Serato SSL. The dpc latency checker and report tools will help nail it down. You WILL have to turn off a lot of stuff, but it will only be done in areas that will not hinder the computers actual stability. You can safely turn off pretty much all of your usb host contollers, sound cards, wifi adapters, cd/dvd drives, external mouse drivers, web cam, finger sensors and anything else that isn't directly related to running the computer.
How I go about optimizing my comp. First I start by going into msconfig ( via the run/cmd ) and in the startup menu I uncheck all programs or features I don't want running. Leave on any Win. system stuff like graphics, or needed software. These are easy to spot because it will have a system at the end of it's description. Basically I turn off everything that is a program. I then go to the services menu and turn off things like bluetooth, print spooler ( if i'm not going to print anything ), google updater, and any other features, or services I don't want running. Only turn off what you know. If you don't know what it is, leave it alone.
I then go to device manager and turn off all the above mentioned drivers. I leave things alone like the internal drive, the processors and graphics stuff. I mess mostly with wifi/network adaptors, sound cards, external mice ( not internal, or mouse pad ), cd/dvd drivers ( although not always of course ) and last but not least, the usb controllers. The usb controllers make a big impact. Turning these off will free up lines of communication by reducing clutter in the usb port paths. I.E., having on a driver for an old external mouse you used to use is still using paths in the system. Turning this off free's up the clutter. What I do is run SSL and then one by one start turning off the usb host controllers. You will find that several of them have no effect on the SSL system at all. With the DPC latency tool running you can see in real time if things get better or worse. I check SSL to see that it is working as it should until I have all the usb host drivers off that do not effect Serato. There should be at least 2 to run SSL. There will be at least 4 usb drivers total. 2 for the external drive and 2 for TTM57. 2 drivers will be named and easy to see, the other two will be host controllers. Leave the ROOT HUB drivers alone. At this point you should find that for the most part the latency is almost always in the green.
If you are still getting spikes into yellow and red, run another DPC trace report and see if it's ACPI related. You should see that all of your other issues have been resolved, but you will see that ACPI is still high. In an attempt to fix this, remove your battery from the computer. No need to turn off the computer, or restart. Just be sure that you are plugged in to an a/c source. This should get rid of the spikes that occur every 10-15 seconds. If not, then you may be out of luck there. You can try restarting your comp and see if it helps, but I have found that it either works or it doesn't.
Other things that are important about SSL is the DISPLAY settings in the setup menu. The audio buffer is a cpu eater. It creates a buffer of the audio by eating up cpu power. However this audio buffer has nothing to do with actual audio performance, only how accurate it is in the view window when you zoom in. If you do not zoom in a lot and are pretty much running at standard settings all the time. Leave it down at 15-30. This will free up cpu power. I leave the screen refresh rate at 60 since it seems to chunk any lower. You can see an obvious effect on the audio setting.
Next is the Buffer setting in the main setup menu screen. The lower it is, the higher the cpu load. The higher the setting the slower SSL reacts to your inputs ( like scratching ), but the easier it is on your cpu and the less likely you are to have a dropout. This setting is desired to be as low as possible without dropout of course. If you use a lot of FX you may need to bump it up another notch, because the FX do eat up cpu power.
Last but not least. Double check your files. Re-analyze them to be sure you have no bad files. 2.3.1 is picky and you may find that a few files that passed before, no longer are good for serato. These " BAD " files can cause SSL to have issues regardless of whether or not the file is played. After re-analyzing all the files, I create a new database V2 file using the method described on this forum. This makes for a very happy SSL system.
Take care and hope this helps.
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