For me...

0 BPM = 0.00%
+1 BPM = 0.80%
+2 BPM = 1.50%
+3 BPM = 2.30%
+4 BPM = 3.00%

It's the same in reverse with no change for me. I mix house/club/pop. This can vary by 0.10% but it's more or less spot on.

I never attempted to find out these values. I just noticed them and they stuck. I can beat mix in around 10 seconds max so auto mix isn't needed, although i think it's essential for the SP-6 sample player.

Please Serato... i beg you from the bottom of my heart. This would make the player actually usable apart form stings/drops/air horns!!!

Serato should take a leaf out of abletons book With the auto warping to bpm feature, would be perfect for the sample player. Personally I warp all my samples to 130bpm in ableton and then pitch them up to .40% in the sample player and that keeps my samples in time with my mix.

i used to do this really really mad thing, i used to cue the first beat of the record i was mixing in, using my hand on the record, i then used to listen with these wierd things called ears to whether the bpm was too fast or too slow then i used to adjust the record and pitch slider accordingly untill both records ran in time, i mean it was completely mental this thing that people called beatmatching, i even did it without a calculator

Wow dude that sounds so freaking amazing, I've even told you how to do it BEFORE the records even play :O beatmatching with no beat!! *shrieks hysterically*
I also assume that by used to you mean you don't beatmatch or use your ears anymore, and that sucks for you dude, beatmatching and using my ears to listen to stuff is like my 2 favourite things to do.

You used to? Do you use Traktor now that does it for you automatically?

I did that 22 years ago! It was great, wasn't it?

Since BPM displays came along... it's worked out in my head before the track is loaded (not that i want to do that but it's there. It's not like we can "un-know" something you learn by accident now, is it?).

Remember... If you load a track in at 128 and the track currently playing is 126 i can't tell the part of my brain to 'jog on' that wants moves the pitch 1.5%. You just know. Like deliberately trying to forget how to drive. It comes with experience.

Learning where the pitch values on a Technics was a technique adopted MANY MANY MANY years before a BPM displays or even Serato/Traktor came along. That's why they have percentage values along the pitch fader... to know your speed (or it would be blank with no markings).

It's just common sense.

Agreed. Beatmatching is great fun. Over the years, I have trained my ears to hear precise sounds like matching beats, nice transitions, etc. I especially love when a record would jump, or a track would speed up/slow down due to production, and I would have to use my ears to get those two tracks back on beat as fast as possible. It's quite funny watching the microwave deejay's lose their mind when their mixing goes haywire. They have no idea which track is ahead of which, because they didn't take the time to train their ears to hear the claps, hi-hats, kicks, etc. within the tracks.

This was the point I was trying to get across before I started rambling. It's as simple as knowing your shit, if you haven't listened to the song a hundred times before and you can't figure out where your mix is out of sync, then wtf did you play the song for?

And for STU-C, not everyone had the luxury of being able to afford two turntables and a mixer way back when, hardly now for most people still. For alot of aspiring djs who cant afford a decent setup, then virtual dj is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to get learning, and that not all people had the ability to spin back a record and adjust a pitch slider at the same time with a mouse. I mix now with 2 cdjs and 2 Stanton vinyl tables and serato, and I did not buy all my equipment in one go, I don't have rich parents or spare $3000-$7500 to drop on a setup. For lots of kids anyway a virtual setup is the only hope they have of getting started.

And last I checked this was still a serato forum? I wasn't tying to say that you should abandon the use of your ears and rely totally on the computer, but why not take advantage of the tools if it makes it easier for you?

Is it really easier though? I would tend to disagree as I just don't get this mathematics stuff and find that looking at the bpm or waveforms is a total ditsraction from the music. If you habitually beat match by ear, it just becomes second nature, why would you want to lose that? As soon as you start the track you instantly get a feel for where the pitch needs to be, takes just a few seconds to fine tune and you are away. You don't need numbers, why over complicate something that is so simple, and most of all enjoyable?

I'm not against auto sync totally, if there is a real use case for it, and so long as it is an optional plugin. The thing is, I feel that adding more and more of this type of stuff just bloats the software and clutters the UI unecessarily. The unique selling point of serato was (still is?) it's simplicity, intuitive layout and most of all it's stability and I hope that they continue forward with developments, having this core application in mind.

Since we are talking about Serato specifically, for me Serato is a solid professional tool that allows me to play digital music using my traditional setup. I don't need auto sync, effects, sampler etc etc. so plugins are fantastic as I can disable stuff. And I really love the simple library view too, no annoying waveforms to distract me. I use the HC1000S so I get all the visual feedback I need re cue points and loops etc. with that which is really great.

And although I can see a use case for software effects and sampling, I would much rather use hardware for this so am glad this is optional as it means I can keep the software nice and simple.

im not saying forget it if you already have it there but when i load the record i tend to be able to tell in the first 4 beats whats going on and move the pitch to somewhere near then start to tinker, i dont even look at the bpm aside from picking the desired speed at the start of the set, usually about 126-128 depending on what my mood is or the type of house im playing, i just dont understand why you need to pratt about working out pitch values when in seconds you can listen and get the speeds relatively near with one adjustement

sorry if my sarcasm offended you but coming back with quoting me on the term 'used to' is quite poor, i expect much better banter than that.

my first setup was a citronic turntable and mixer package and my mate had belt drive numark decks, thats how we learnt, i didnt get technics for 2 years until i had 1) decided that djing was definatly for me and 2) learnt how to fully beatmatch, my citronic package was £400 and i plugged it into my hi fi, i could beatmatch perfectly on them by the time i bought 1210s, i would not of bought techs had i not ben able cos like most people £700 for a pair of decks was far too much money, i only use serato now cos i still had the decks and could not afford pioneers, so buying an sl3 was the best option, like i say no offence was meant just pointing out that sometimes keeping it simple is the best science

While i do understand what your saying, it's not having to pratt about 'per se'. Imagine if you moved the pitch to the same place over and over again, you learn it subconsciously.

If i was to write...

2+2=

...then i bet you've already answered "4" in your own head? Nothing is worked out. It's instantly available from your brain as it's something we are so accustomed to seeing (a bit like dropping a letter from a word in "txt spk"). We don't even see it as an equation as it's so normal in our daily life, so for me seeing 126 BPM to 127 BPM i know through years of sliding a fader that it's +0.8% (it can vary but it's a general rule of thumb for me). No complicated maths equations or anything to work out, just like looking at 2+2 :)

I've been DJ'ing since 1992 and work six nights a week. This info is burned into my brain and requires little skill to correctly beatmatch as i 'just know' my songs i play and where to move the pitch even before i've pressed play. That's all i was saying (hence the reason NOT to implement auto beat match - the point of the thread). You can't replace your ears as a tool for mixing, only aid them.

If i know the BPM of a track previous to being loaded into a deck i can tell you where to move the pitch slider (Technics or CDJ) and it's pretty accurate. It's by no means perfect as some producers record tracks differently but for my sets i know. When i do my spontaneous sets things can be a lil' mixed up but not too much. It's only a way to aid faster beatmatching by using the BPM display. I managed 16 years without one so it's not the end of the world.

My point was only to re-inforce the notion of NOT needing "auto sync" and as i have my own system that i accidentally found out that works very accurately for me, i thought i'd share it with others.

...and with regards to the "used to" comment there was no offence here on my part but i didn't know your angle. I just took it as a troll in a thread that was sharing info in not wanting 'auto sync' as there was no reassuring winky face or other indicator like an exclamation mark at the end to imply 'tongue-in-cheek' banter. It was just a self-admitted sarcastic reply with no input to the original post.

All i will say is that we don't need any type of automatic beat alignment in Serato as it's not essential. Well... it is for the SP-6 sample player but that's another thread! I run The Bridge with an APC40 and think it would help so much.

Wilksie

im with you on that point, i dont have an issue with auto sync but i do have an issue with the muppets who misuse it, i wish these people would learn at least where to mix the next track in its absolutely ridiculous that people like me, you and a lot of other people on here have spent years perfecting the art only to be kicked in the nuts by these cretins who use this feature and still manage to make a mess of it. more concerning to me is they also seem to be getting dj work too, purely for the fact they play commercial music. its kind of the two things that are ruining the dance music/dj scene both being utilized by these fly by night 'djs'

for me personally the auto sync feature is mainly suited to techno, kind of like richie hawtin has been doing for years, having the beats looping while other elements are layered over the top. its not really suited to say jackin house or hip hop.

back to your original point about the pitch ranges i do see your thinking behind it i just misread what you were using it for, i thought you were using that method to try and line the tracks up instead of just as a guide to where your pitch should be.

p.s. yeah the sp6 needs a lot of work to catch up with native instruments i think and auto sync for the samples is definatly a must have feature

No worries and i totally agree on the dance side of things. Traktor is a pretty awesome bit of kit and the automation level is tightly integrated into the very fabric of the product but it's just not for me.
I bought it last November for a play about as an alternative to SL when they was selling it (nearly) half price for the Audio 8 and although it does everything you'd ever need for dance music, but i find it lacks the raw simplicity feeling of Scratch Live. I think i played with it for all of an hour! (it was worth it for the Audio 8 sound card i suppose).

I also get soooooo many kids slate me for using Scratch Live because of their cracked copy of Virtual DJ does it all. Many people i speak to have never heard of Scratch Live and it's usually the Automation Kids in the bars that are running hooky VDJ that have a pop. I am a bit of a snob when i use SL and pride myself over my tools so always stick it to 'em that my SL isn't cheap kit. Win!

Recently i went to a bar and for an hour the tempo was the same. No variation in music and no real breakdowns. It just was a constant 130 BPM and sounded naff and monotonous.

One lil' let down for me while DJ'ing with Alister Whitehead was that he used Ableton Live and all his tracks was in a set. He just pressed play at the right time on a Launchpad and crossfaded. No beat matching at all and no showmanship. Just pressed play... i was pretty gutted as i respected him so much!!! It wasn't like it was used for looping or effects.

Sleep for me now as i've got an SL3 and a pair of Dicers coming in a few hours. The trusty old SL1 is finally getting replaced and the Dicers was only £29 extra. I won't really need them as i have a Denon HC-1000S but i suppose i'll give them a go.

Wilksie

haha alistair whitehead completely selling out, he was the first 'real' dj i ever saw back in 1998 i think. if thats what its come down to now he should just give up. i bought myself an sl3 and a pioneer djm800 both are quality but i think serato now have some catching up to do since tsp2 came out. one really annoying thing is that serato and rane only seem to give native support to really expensive equipment. e.g HID support for pioneer cdj2000s why would i spend that much on a cd deck to render most of its functions useless by using dvs with it. im currently saving up for a denon dn sc2000 which can be custom mapped to control the platter in serato, then ill have 3 deck mixing back online at last. 185 quid for denon build quality and a big 2 fingers up to pioneer and its overpriced stuff. i just wish denon would make an alternate version of this deck purely for serato with 3 deck switchability

Heh yeah my bad mate, I got a little bit loose there.

I wasn't trying to have a go at traditional beatmatching either, I was just stating that my "mathematics" system worked well for me. Everyone has what works best for them.

I'm pretty tired of Pioneer's high prices now. I have the MKIII 1000's and think for what you actually get for your money is very little. I like Denon's pricing but i've had a few problems with buttons on three bits of Denon gear so i've put a hold on buying them now. Usually it's like they double press and get super sensitive on most i've owned (HC1000S and HD2500). I may ditch the 1000S Scratch Live controller as i got two Dicers with my SL3 today and they look more reliable on the buttons (if they are anything like the ones on my LaunchPad!). Denon (or someone) really need to top the Pioneer DJ monopoly that's out there. That SC2000 is pretty schweet.

I use the Pio 900's at work and really don't like them. They couldn't afford the 2000's so plumped for the 900's and the feature difference is vast. I'm pretty happy with the 1000's at home at the moment and think also that the 2000's are pretty much £3000 for a pair of CD players that can control software. Most people who use them will use them with software so it makes them £3000 for a midi (HID) controller. Ouch!

The ball is in Denon, or even Numarks court now they have their high end stuff like the NS7/NS6/V7.

Oh and in the 90's the Fantazia House Collection Vol. 3 was my favourite album. Alistair's was disc 2 and he picked the finest piano house. To watch him on a LaunchPad and Ableton was pretty heartbreaking but the last time we did a gig he was back on CD's... He did want to try Scratch Live so i suggested The Bridge so he can play with both.

We'll see what he has when i see him next!

haha yeah cool cds they were, my favourites were the ministry sessions cds, the one with the subliminal djs and the magic sessions one. im with you on the ridiculous nature of a 3k midi controller. when i played out it was 2 cdj800mk1 and a djm500 that had no fader switches left(the plastic bits) it was shocking. i actually like the 800s though cos you could do a manual loop then use the auto loop buttons to chop your loop and make some pretty cool build ups with that and the echo on the mixer. 1000s are much tighter though, the platters seem to hold out better than the 800s and the buttons are higher quality i just dont understand why the auto loop is missing.

if you look on dj forums at the home setup thread loads of people have a pair or even 3 cdj2000s and a 1500 quid macbook running dvs, im sure most of them are buying that for the same reason you would buy a ferrari, ie to look good. i sold my cdjs when i moved out of my parents 5 years ago as i wasnt using them at home, i was pissed off about it at first but now im happy on the technics again, kind of fun.

@matty i understand bud i was literally just trying to stir a bit of arguement lol