is there some particular characters you're having trouble with?

i checked it again...

only the non tagged mp3 shows hebrew.. and there are no particular characters ... all hebrew characters doesn't work if there's id3 tag.. it's very annoying cause now i got to untag all hebrew mp3's and lose information ...

img403.imageshack.us

as you can see here
the files with id3 show jibrish
and the files without show me hebrew..

example - file 395 - is jibrish
file 345 - hebrew..

udi, can you upload a sample file that does this? The audio is not important. It will help us to eliminate the problem once and for all. Thanks.

I would love to :)

sharebee.com

the name of the song is the name of the file.. this will help you to compare if you got it right..

Had a look at the file. The encoding that has been used to write the ID3V2 title does not conform to the ID3 v2.3 spec. Do you know which program created those tags? The simplest way to fix it would be to change the encoding of the tags in the affected files to UTF16 and update the tags manually.

Since you're on a pc, I'd suggest using ID3tagIt (www.id3-tagit.de). You would need to manually set it to use UTF-16(LE). In ver. 3.3.0, you can find these options by hitting F12 and then changing the Text Encoding options for vers. 2.3 and 2.4 to UTF16(LE) (in the TAG Ver. 2 tab).

Once your tags are in Unicode, Scratch LIVE will display them just fine.

audiograbber 1.82 was used to create that id3 tag..

i'll try the program , but keep in mind that it only fix the problem for a while..

and btw
the unicode doesn't work if i don't remove the id3v1 first..

and another suggestion

when i use build overviews it's building to the files he already did a build before.. i think it's very annoying and it should only build overview to new files , don't you think ?

any news ?

Just on that last point I accidentally dragged my entire library to the BUILD OVERVIEWS button and it started building all of them again; a real pain cause I'd already done about half of the 20,000 MP3s, and that had taken a solid week. I'm pretty sure telling SSL to rescan ID3 tags (which only took 20 minutes) "reminded" SSL which ones it had already done and the number remaining went back down to what it should have been, about 10,000.

BUT I dunno if that might affect your other issue here in any way.

the rescan id3 option doesn't solve the problem.

for now , i remove all the tags from the hebrew songs so i can see what's the name of the song and i add the filename column to be sure..

but it's very annoying that i have to erase the id3 or change all to id3v2.3 unicode everytime i add new hebrew song..

i think that by fixing this problem , israel dj's would buy this product more...

Hi Udi - sorry to hear about the problem you are having.

Just some background on ID3 tags to help everyone understand the problem - the ID3 specification has two ways of storing text (such as artist names, song titles, etc). The first is using the "latin-1" alphabet (which has letters for Western European countries like England, France, Germany, etc), and the second is "Unicode" which has letters for just about every language used in the world today.

Not all programs follow the rules though - some programs use non "latin-1" characters without using Unicode like they are supposed to, and it looks like Audiograbber is one of those. I notice from their website that the program hasn't been updated since February 2004.

Scratch LIVE does follows the ID3 rules, and uses either Latin-1 or Unicode depending on which one is used in the ID3 tags, and so, unfortunately, your Hebrew-tagged MP3 files (which use neither correctly) show up with Western European characters like "É" and "Ö" etc.

The best thing to do would be to check on the forum to see if people can recommend other ID3 taggers or MP3 rippers that can do the same thing as Audiograbber does, but which store the tag data according to the rules (Unicode for Hebrew in this case).

let's say that i'll try another mp3 ripper , and maybe i won't use id3.. u'r forgetting that i'm only one of many israeli dj's outthere that wants hebrew in their software.. you can guess that a lot of them don't have the time or the power to try other mp3 rippers or to change the id3 from latin to unicode..

i think it would be best if you'll find a way to fix this problem for good - it would help serato scratch live to be the ultimate product for dj's in israel also..

Hi again Udi.

Scratch LIVE supports Hebrew ID3 tags - see the following screenshot: scratchlive.net (I don't speak hebrew, so those are just some random words from a hebrew webpage)

The problem is with the tools you are using not saving the hebrew ID3 tags in the file correctly.

I think this might be a common problem, because there are various webpages describing how to fix the problem on the internet. I found one that I think is describing the problem, and a possible tool to fix the incorrectly written ID3 tags in hebrew: mac.plonter.co.il (again, I don't speak hebrew, but it looks like it is describing the problem to me).

That's a Mac program, but there will probably be other similar programs for the PC as well.

If we decide to improve the ID3 tag editing capabilities of Scratch LIVE in the future, the repair of incorrectly written ID3 tags may be one of the areas we look at, but for now I'd suggest finding a new tool to rip and tag your MP3 files that supports "Unicode". That will let you have hebrew text that Scratch LIVE, and every other modern MP3 player (like iTunes) can read.

why should i fix the problem ?
the program is the problem not my mp3's
you should fix the program..
i bought a program with my best money and you're telling me to fix my mp3's id3 ? don't you think it's a little bit not right ?

or let's supposed that i will fix those damn id3 ..

what about the other israeli dj's ?

udi, SSL conforms to the ID3 standards, the other programs which created the tags on this mp3s do not conform, so the problem is actually the other apps, even if it is causing a pain for you.

you're acting like i'm the only one in israel using SSL.

Me? The point is that the actual problem are the other applications which do not follow the ID3 tag "rules". I never said you are the only one using it in Israel, also keep in mind the problem you are suffering from is not one limited to Hebrew, it is a general problem which affects anyone using characters not from Latin-1 but Unicode instead (Chinese letters/words for example) *and* non-confirming applications.

udi... im israeli as well and i have hebrew id3 tags that are jacked...i see what your talking about, but ease up on the SSL guys... they are doing the best they can :) (al targiz otam, ze lo ire tov le yehudim ba forum ha ze) =P

where u from chita

What happens if you edit tags from within Scratch LIVE - do they work OK? Is it only if you are using a 3rd party application to edit your tags that you have problems?

if i edit the tags from inside serato to hebrew it works ok.
i'm think it's only if i'm using 3rd part application.

Here's a java program that looks like it will fix your mp3s
www.cs.berkeley.edu

Or you can use mp3tag www.mp3tag.de

For ripping try cdex => prdownloads.sourceforge.net

or CD-DA extractor => www.poikosoft.com

i understand that Serato doesn't give a damn about israel..
well in that case , i will advice people not to buy this software.. very annoying.

i enjoy it very much but too bad it doesn't have hebrew..

udi, you're obviously missing the point here. SSL does do Hebrew Edouard posted a screen shot above that shows the program displaying Hebrew characters => scratchlive.net the problem is that the tags in your mp3s are broken. You can fix them with one of the applications listed in this thread. It would take around 10 minutes to fix using id3-tagit.

first of all , i tried it , it doesn't work..
you need to remove the id3v1 also to make it work
second , you're ignoring the whole problem and fix only the problem at one person computer..

well ?

udi, if you like you can send me a couple of your files that don't work and I will give you instructions for a 10 minute fix in id3-tagit that will fix all your files in one go.

fuck it
you don't understand the problem do you?!?!

i tell you that i use id3-tagit and i know how to change the encoding from ANSI to UNICODE.. but i don't want to do it everytime i download a new mp3 from the net
and you forget that i'm not the only one from israel using SSL !! it's not so easy for non-tech guys to understand why it doesn't give them hebrew !!!

udi, as Edouard had said, the problem lies with the program creating the tags, not Scratch LIVE. If you're downloading them from a site, you need to lodge an issue with the site you're getting the mp3s from because they definitely need to be creating hebrew tags in Unicode. The ID3 specification only allows for two types of encoding : ISO 8859-1 and Unicode. Hebrew cannot be encoded as ISO 8859-1.

For Hebrew to be displayed consistently, it needs to be written correctly according to the ID3 specification. This simply means that the only way to guarantee that Hebrew is displayed in the tags is to use Unicode.

Nobody would want to keep changing the encoding from ANSI to Unicode. The real problem is that the tags are in local ANSI encoding in the first place.

well i'll lodge an issue with emule , you're right.

how come Winamp does show hebrew even if it's ANSI ?

i think the problem would be fixed i there was an option to change the font. because when i used virtual DJ the default font was Tahoma but after changing it to MS Sans Serif or Arial it showed hebrew without any problems.

i hate that nobody answers me.

is there an email where i can email a nice letter with all the problems with the hebrew language ?

and btw , if my mp3 is ID3v1 i need to convert all to id3v2 and then change to Unicode ? very annoying - think about that.

udi, I can understand your frustration. The ID3 specification was not very well designed to begin with. That's the root cause. However, things being what they are with ID3 tags becoming the accepted method to insert metadata into a track, software has to cope with its inadequacies.

The next question is how does a piece of software cope while making sure that the information within the ID3 tag still remains portable, intact and accessible in other programs? The problem you're having is a perfect example.


Excellent question. We will look into it and see if there is anything we can do to make things easier.

finally , i can see the light in the end of the tunnel :)

please make it fully compatible to hebrew language. it will rise the sales in israel , i promise you !

pretty cool => scratchlive.net

what do you want ?

I was just saying it looks cool, SSL with Hebrew.

doesn't look that way..
img403.imageshack.us

that looks cool too, thanks g

?

typographic pov

pov ?

i'm waiting for an answer.

Point Of View

Udi, your argument is flawed.

It's like saying my slingshot doesn't shoot my CD-ROMs straight, therefore all CD-ROMs should be redesigned to be more aerodynamic. CD-ROMs were designed according to the agreed specifications that it's meant to store data and not be a flying disk. That doesn't mean that it can't be a flying disk, but it just won't fly particularly well. Or to make this analogous to your situation, you're asking that every CD-ROM player be modified such that they can accommodate CD-ROMs that are modified to be flying disks - it's just not an appropriate request!

The same goes for SSL. The Serato team designed it to be compliant with the approved ID3 specifications - this is called being standards complaint. Because another company builds something that doesn't follow those standards (i.e. your tag editor), that doesn't mean that it's Serato's fault, nor should Serato necessarily change their software.

In the past, Microsoft had a bad habit of halfway supporting standards and it was extremely problematic in regards to compatibility with other software and services. Be respectful of people that stick to the standards because they are doing the right thing and *put pressure on the people that don't follow those standards*. If you use a product that is not standards compliant, you are using it at your own risk - that is your risk, not anyone else's.

Mike

you people drive me crazy.

it's not a specific tag editor that i'm using that serato doesn't support. it's all kind of programs that serato doesn't support. let's do a little test , go to emule or whatever you're getting files from , try to download something in hebrew , most of the times it will read jibrish on serato.

and all the people reply to this post missing the main point. serato should support hebrew in all cases , and why is that ? because many dj's in israel want to buy serato , and then they ask me - does serato support hebrew ? and what do i tell them - kinda. kinda is not an answer. there are many dj's who doesn't know computer as i do , they want to drag songs to serato and start working , they don't really understand what id3 means and all the encoding problem.

Well, I'm getting my files by paying for music.
This has other advantages beyond supporting artists, like, for example, allowing you to control the tagging.

Serato *does* support Hebrew, udi. It does so correctly. Whoever is ripping your music for you isn't doing it right; that isn't Serato's fault.

I think you should go to emule and complain that their files are not tagged correctly.

hahaha.. lemme go rob a bank and then tell them they gave me my money in the wrong denominations :p hahahaha



That's where you're wrong - it should support hebrew in the appropriate cases!



You tell them that it does as long as you tag your songs correctly.



That's why you learn how to use your software properly. It's not that tough, really. Get a different program that is standards compliant and recommend that your friends use the same program and you guys will be rockin' the hebrew all day.

you people are stupid , really.

you're serato works perfect with english so it's easy for you to talk.
i didn't bought serato to start messing around with id3 softwares and shit like that. i bought serato so i will decrease my time spent on burning cd's , tagging mp3's and stuff like that. i want to drag a song to serato and start play it.

if serato wants to get a big success in israel , they should first support hebrew language to the max. no one in israel really cares about id3 encoding and shit like that. they want a software that they can plug into the computer and start working with instantly.

if i wanted to get busy with the software and explore it , i would buy traktor or final scratch or any other stuff out there.

but why people buy serato ? because the software is simple to use and not too complicated with efx and shit like that.

and for my dj friends , not all the dj's in israel are my friends, there are many people that doesn't know computer like i do , doesn't go to forums , they are just using the computer for serato and the jibrish is annoying them.

serato team is really losing sales because of non full hebrew support.

for example , take this shop - djshop.co.il , it's one of the most working good store for dj's in israel, when i wanted to buy serato at the time , i asked them if there's hebrew support , they couldn't tell me that there is hebrew support and they couldn't tell me that there's not.

how come winamp and all other programs support hebrew and serato not ?!

and for all you fools , think before you answer.

Thank you - really.



I retag ALL of my music, so no, it isn't easy for me to talk. It's a long and involved process, and part of the process to making ID3 work properly! Here's my process:

- Get song
- Open media monkey clear v1 and v2 tags
- Update all misspellings, titles, etc
- synchronize all tags
- fix file names (w/ media monkey)
- batch process them sound forge to get them to the desired bitrate
- copy originals to backup drive
- copy processed files to laptop
- import them to Serato and build overviews
- set cue points
- move songs into proper crates
- run backup script which copies them ALL back to my backup drive

This is time-consuming and somewhat involved, but that's how I do it to make sure that everything is clean and straight. I would recommend for you and you'd probably get your Hebrew problems straightened out.

However, you're just being lazy, which is ok, just don't complain.



Sorry dude, then don't use SSL.



We could only wish that life were so simple ;)



You are STILL missing the point. It does support Hebrew to the max. It conforms to the ID3 standards which is exactly what it's supposed to do - no more, no less.



And you might still have the same problem!



That doesn't mean that work isn't still involved.



Then they should still be using vinyl if they can't handle the computer. Vinyl works and is relatively fool-proof.



You can never please everyone.



And you could have downloaded the software ahead of time and made an informed decision before you purchased it, but you didn't.



Because they're not standards compliant?



Maybe you should think before you purchase something!

I know you are, but what am I? :P




Good luck with that.

In FinalScratch, I couldn't get it to read an artist like "Tony! Toni! Toné!". I had to change it to Tony Toni Tone.

Well, there's your problem. You get what you pay for, er, don't in this case. What do you expect from illegal file sharing networks, perfectly tagged files without problems? lol!

msoultan
you're working for Serato ? no. so don't answer for them.

every costumer counts.

I do buy my music , my library is perfect for hebrew , i don't have any problem with computers or retagging my songs , that's what i do , i'm trying to understand why serato doesn't support hebrew to the max so that my friends and other israeli dj's would start working with serato like they should.

Not that it matters as you're not listening to what I'm saying, or the Serato staff for that matter.



Agreed. But that doesn't mean that a program should be changed be changed because the customer is being lazy.



You really haven't read anything that anyone has written, have you?

I can understand that if you don't come from a software background that standards compliance isn't a big deal. Well, for people that do work with software a lot, standards compliance helps the majority of people and helps to ensure compatibility. Do you understand that?

You are asking to break that standards compliance so that SSL will be compatible with a small set of customers. I could understand that if every DJ using Hebrew was having a problem, this would be a big problem, but as of yet, it seems like it's only you and a few of your friends.

I'll give you an example. Remember back in the day how jacked up web sites were when sometimes they'd work in IE but not netscape or firefox or vice versa? That is mainly in part because Microsoft was not conforming to the web standards that were set and it ultimately hurt both the developers and the consumers. Now you have even MORE people that are affected because one group went against the flow.

Standards compliance makes sense. If you still don't see why, do some research on it and then you might understand everyone's rationale a little bit better.

i do understand the sense of using standard compliance. but i think that serato should also be more flexible like WINAMP for example that reads hebrew without no problems.
i didn't really meant that you're stupid , but you have to understand the frustration of buying a 600$ box that doesn't support your spoken language like it should.

I totally understand, and believe me, I've had my set of weird problems with SSL. This is one of those things where it just kinda sucks and you have to change your work-flow a bit, but it's for the better.. really, it is, as it will ensure compatibility with other programs down the road.

While I can't verify what WinAMP is doing, if SSL were to start straying from the standards, then it allows other vendors to stray from those standards, and then when you try and implement something down the road, you don't know what standards to conform to - big nightmare!!

Yeah, they're being strict with SSL, but in the long run, it's a good thing because it forces other people to conform to standards and eventually programmers wake up. This is especially true with a program like SSL, which is becoming the de-facto standard for computer-based DJing. When a leader is enforcing standards compliance, that's a very good thing!

I feel your pain, but a little bit of hard work now will definitely pay off down the road when you have ensured that your tags are properly set.

I dont consider downloading music from emule and complaining about it as "buying". That is stealing and *itching.

You think that people who download tracks with tags in English always have perfect tags? More often that not I'd say, on the occasions I steal music from P2P the tags are pretty messed up - with the artist and title both in the "song" field for example. So while the characters usually display properly, I still have to edit the tags. Do you think Serato should fix THAT problem? Or do you agree it's the fault of whoever tagged the file before sticking it on P2P, for not doing it properly?

Serato should have an equivilent CDDB for all music that automatically and correctly tags files for you in you native language regardless of the original source or quality of the file. It should also automatically put the songs into crates and rate them for you. This includes: if a song appears on any of Billboard's charts it will automatically get flagged as a banger and placed in your prepare crate upon opening the program. There will be a persistent secure link to this SSL database world wide via bluetooth, with base units installed in every venue that licenses music through either ASCAP and/or BMI. If you do not have any Billboard charting music, your SL1, MP4 or TTM57 will go into a locked hibernate mode and a RIAA representative will contact you shortly with instructions on how to properly purchase a qualifying song.

Sounds good? I'm in!

Udi, have you met musiclee?


www.scratchlive.net

LOL bourbonstmc

i'm defo tracking this discussion - way cooler than most stand-up comedy videos in youtube

everybody support hebrew.......everybody support israel!!!! like america

ok guys.. let's chill on this. While having any expectations about tracks off of P2P networks is pretty far fetched, I can still understand Udi's frustrations as far as tag support. Standards compliance can also bite you in the ass...

Mike

i disagree when frustration turns into rudeness..

I agree to an extent. if serato were to read out of unicode...it should be across the board

then keep at it...

udi, i have a solution for you.

choose a different language.

clearly, hebrew was not designed to work easily with id3 tags, and it seems like its a flaw of the people who designed the language that they didn't write it for easy usage in id3 tags. rather silly of them i guess, but not everyone is perfect, right? i would contact the people who created the hebrew language and complain to them and see if they can change the language. perhaps frnech would be a better alternative? swedish?

best of luck to you.