It sucks to see so many posts from people that just got SSL and then within an hour are posting about some "MAJOR PROBLEM".. that they could have easily figured out if they read the actual manual and followed the proper setup procedures. I guess there is really nothing you can do about it. I get messages all day from friends asking me things they could have just looked up themselves. Its too bad there are so many posts like that though, it gets messy, it would be nice if they could all be moved to a closed issues archive forum.

End of rant

I hear you, but it's also a nice to see these people get their issues SOLVED!! If you ever should have a mental meltdown, you'll surely post and get a quick helpful reply.

And secondly - no manual is idiot proof or is the issue it never gets read?

I think his main issue is that new users don't seem to read the manual before freaking out on this forum...

Yeah well alot of people visit the forums and go wow look at all the posts in the help section.. and then you know it turns out only about 20% of them are legitamate.

It would be nice if we could update the titles of posts, that way once you were statisfied that people have answered you question you can add [solved] to the title. These could then be archived off by the mods.
Popular questions can be added to the faq which should be coming soon.

Hehe...don't even get me started, my work number has been posted here for months :P LOL

Good suggestions though guys :-)

Now we just need your home phone number...

;-)

FAQ now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that tells you something about human behavior. most people are looking for the quick fix by someone who's already been through it. at least you're considered to be a reliable solution. ;)

That must be why tech support people's first answer is always straight from the manual - no matter that you've explained your problem in such detail that it's obvious you've read the manual and the manual doesn't answer your question...but that's another issue and obviously not a problem on this board or Yuri wouldn't have started this post :D

i agree - me thinks the mods should be able to at least change the title of a thread from "HELP" to "HELP (insert summary of problem here)".

Having "HELP" as a thread title could mean a million things, from a persons mental stability to actual problems with SSL!

90-something percent of the phones calls I get are answered in the manuals. We write them for a reason, but I think the reason is so we can say RTFM. It simply takes people less time to get answers on forums or by calling or getting help from others. Too bad I can't simply answer: "read the fucking manual" - I'd offend someone though.

Maybe when u click on the help link to go to the forum, u guys should have a page flash up saying "READ THE MANUAL THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU POST. IF YOU STILL CANNOT FIND THE ANSWER, PLEASE QUOTE THE PROBLEM CLEARLY IN THE TOPIC FIELD AND GIVE AS MUCH DETAIL ABOUT YOUR SETUP, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO GET THIS PROBLEM, CAN YOU REPLICATE IT.......(etc etc)"

I think u get the idea!! maybe this could be like a deterent

I've been thinking about a new help form which has to be completed before a new thread can be started.

Expect more on this.

I also think people are pretty hyped when they get SSL. Like a kid getting a new toy...

Yeah thats actually very true. To be honest its not that big of a deal as most of everyone here enjoys helping out.. I just think it doesnt always give the best impression when theres so many frantic help topics like that. It seems like it would be alot of work to clean that up though

I was thinking... the SSL team might want to add the ability for the original poster to CLOSE a topic when it has been settled. Then it could get either marked as closed or moved to an archive.

I hvae been selling dj equipment for a long time and nobody seems to read manuals . Sometimes maybe they feel stupid if they have to read manuals byt they instead ring me all the time . Anyway for the people using ssl in China i am their only hope as the masnual is all in english , and a lot of people seling stuff dont actually use the gear them selves .

This forum is great though for quick answers .

Yuri,

I admit to being guilty of doing exactly what you object to - asking a question whilst trying to get SSL working for the first time. I was grateful for the quick support I received and, in fact, the answer wasn't in the manual (although I have suggested that perhaps a short note could be included in the manual about the issue for the sake of others).

Whilst I agree that there should be an ability to close threads, I have to say that your post has done more to make me feel alienated than a bunch of requests for help that are answered quickly and helpfully.

Mike.

So if the answer wasnt in the manual what does that have to do with you then?

Oh i just read your post.. and you know what.. I do think you jumped the gun. You stated "At the moment I'm really disappointed in the product - and I have been SO excited about it till now"

Seriously, was there really a need to say you were dissapointed in the product when it had to do with your USB connection. Which you found out shortly after doing some testing? Honestly, how long did you test and configure the product before you concluded you were "disappointed in the product"?? an hour or two?? if that??

Good point there, yuri. In most cases, it isn't SSL's fault it ain't working.

great idea there Josh. setting SSL up to work is probably 90% of the questions on the forum. "have you tried this... this and this..." and walk the users through about possible pitfalls instead of a straight FAQ.

more or less the digital equiv of a flowchart...

One of the reasons that I choose SSL over FS2 was the helpfulness of the people on this board. I am sure that we've all "jumped the gun" in our time and my point is that a community which is helpful and open is a real plus. I agree that people should review the material that's out there before asking questions but I don't think that it is in the otherwise excellent spirit of this board to get mad at people asking questions posted in a "Help" forum!

no ones getting mad.. the point is claiming things like "MAJOR PROBLEMS" or "I'm really disappointed in the product" before even spending the time to either read the manual or testing properly

Fair cop. I jumped the gun. I'm embarrased about it. My only point is that the more open and forgiving the forum is, the more that people will feel that they can turn to the community for help. That can only be a good thing for SSL in general.

Yeah, youre right, MikeS. I see this forum as a point to ask when you dont know what to do, when there is no way out. But before I get to that point its obviously clear you should at least have the manners (!) to read the manual. Come on, its takes time to read through all posts, and I think this time+work could be reduced if everyone at least reads the manual once! This saves not only time for the forum users, but also for the developers, they can spend more time on the product making it better.

After some time you might see very helpfull user with lots of knowledge like nobspangle, SpinThis, bartaug (just to name a few..) not reading the board anymore cause they are bored of all those lazy users who dont care reading the manual.

I mean, if I had a question, and I post before consulting the manual its like, I expect others to do my work! I expect them to spend time on something which could be easily avoided.

Thats how I see it.

lol Mike dont worry about it. No need to be embarrassed, your problem was legitamite anyway. Its cool.. hopefully there will be a way to sort help threads later on so we can see which posts actually still need resolving.

Cheers, Yuri. Agreed re the ability to "close" a thread when the issue is resolved.

I dont think a close thread function is really needed. People should be encouraged to pick up an existing thread instead of asking the same questions again and again and opening a new thread. Plus, imagine you have a problem which has allready been discussed, but the solution which helped the previous user doesnt solve my problem. And now the thread is close. See what I mean?

What we need instead is a FAQs area on this board, which could get rid of 90% of all "man, RTFM!"-type of questions. But then... who makes sure that users read the FAQs here? Well you could easily point to that section, and maybe before posting something in the help section there should be a box ("[ ] yes, I checked the FAQ section, my problem is not covered") which you must tick before you can post.

I compare the help section to a doctor, you dont run to a doctor for every single little problem you have right? This gives the doctor the time to concentrate on serious problems. ;-)

Yeah I completely agree Nik BUT that is relying too much on people to do their own actual research, and as weve pretty much concluded, alot of people dont do that. Being able effectively close out a topic would be at least 1 technical way of approaching some management.

haha anyway we dont run this forum or have anything to do with rane/ssl so we really shouldnt care anyway lol.. but still i guess we have committed to it in someway

I did some time, (it felt like jail) in the Cust Support section for a previous employer. The gung-ho can't/didn't read the F'n manual people are out there in full force, and being the representative to that company, you have to BE NICE. These people are doing an injustice to everyone else by NOT READING or not faithfully going with TRIAL n ERROR and simply plead it doesn’t work, showing off gleaming ignorance and DEMANDING help.

That being said, """We've all dunnit""" - and there just isn't a way around it. When you need help, you don't want to get channeled into the 'I MUST BE A STUPID IDIOT' HELP SECTION or as I used to call it ESO (equipment superior to operator) section.

And for a manufactorer to develop a quick demo, or big lettered foolproof step-by-step cut sheet, or a FAQ section would be a waste of time, it will inevitably get overlooked. It's all about the easy way out. And thus makes a great forum since we provide virtually instant help, 24/7. We are feeding our own demise.

Exactly what I am trying to say.

I think my scripted help form will a) actually help the people using it and b) prevent all the dupe threads which are clogging the forum since SSL is selling like hotcakes.

Hotcakes? Are those anything like flapjacks? Just kidding...

LOL all I know is, they sell. haha. ;-)

Now ... only if RANE/SERATO can redesign the human being hhhmmm.

Here's an idea: Have two different Help sections.

1) Help: For New SSL Users
-First time using SSL? Ask us your questions here.

2) Help: For Experienced SSL Users Only
-This section is only for forum members with 10+ posts. New members please post in the previous help section.

Rice, good idea!

thats a pretty good idea!

Cuz this would enable all of the hardcore forum members to tackle the challenging advanced problems that surface while the simple questions can be left to those that want to help newbies get SSL up and running =]

Well, it could work, but there are still some "advanced users" that don't visit this forum before they run into real problems.

i used to frequent a forum or 2 where they tried to seperate "newbie" from "advanced" users. ultimately what ended up happening was the newbies would post in both forums. rice's idea of 10+ posts could work to a degree but 10 posts isn't that hard to reach. you could easily hit that in 1 thread trying to explain to new ssl user. some users will also x-post in other threads, adding to their post count. you could define it as "10 new threads" but if users found that out, that'd just post BS (same thread, different title; "test" threads... etc) until they'd unlock the other forum. in this day and age, who wants to make that distinction? someone could be using SSL for a year, not have a problem, and suddenly to relegated to the "new user" category because it's their first time on the forum.

seperate users by how long they have been a member of the forum. granted this would also give some non-ssl owners 'advanced' status if they register before buying a linger around.

who needs a seperate forum for newbie questions anyway, is that what rev is for? :)

Rev's crib - get your newbie questions answered here ;)

isn't the "newbie" section the FAQ?

Unfortunately I think alot of SSL newbies just zone straight in on the "New Discussion" button.

just like how nobody ever reads a manual

A wise man once told me "If all fails, read the manual" It hasnt "all failed yet" so I am guilty of not reading the manual too ... but I glance every once in a while :) But I am all for reading the manual at least thrice before bleating out on the forum

But if we answer all noob questions with a standard "READ THE MANUAL DUDE" We will have become FS. I don't mind the 'silly' questions whose answers can be found in the manual. I just ignore those threads unless I am watching grass grow and have the dire need to type something. But some (a very very small fraction) of noob questions are really legit considering the manual is only in English, a dud for non-english speaking folks. English is a 3rd language for me and I can appreciate the pain those folks are feeling.

totally agree, it's quite satisfying helping out someone who's having a hard time understanding the manual... They're trying so much harder than the kind of newbie who demands to know what callibration is from a mod.