a good idea if you use cdj's.
i prefer turntables, it would be nice if they made some vinyl that played for 30 minutes, im not sure but i think 30 minutes would fit on one side of a 12" vinyl.

i dount use cds but my friend just loops it and does not have to fuck with it all night. I dont use them so maybe im wrong but thats what i got from him telling me?

Looping the CD also works, but whenever I tested that out there was a slight audible hiccup. When I looped the signal with sound forge, it seems to do a better job of smoothing out the signal and there is no audible glitch.

So I just thought I'd go ahead and post up the link for the 1hr long MP3 control signal:

[link removed]

If you have networked 900s or 2000s, you can just copy it to a USB thumbdrive and play it off of there. Otherwise you can burn the MP3 onto a MP3 CD with your other MP3s, or you could actually burn it as an audio CD which should work as well.

Just remember to only use it in REL mode!!

Please send me any feedback if you get any weird behavior.

thanks!
Mike

I thought using MP3 control signals would not work due to the compression?

it's an audio signal, so as long as the audio signal comes through clean, you have control. You're welcome to try it and if it doesn't work, let me know :)

I'll give it a try and let you know..

I think you'll be happy you did :)

btw, if you want to save the file instead of listen to it, just right click on the link above and select "save link as"

www.serato.com

There is 75 minute one you can get on here already from mike west.

And his probably has the same limitations mine does. Hopefully at some point Serato will make a longer version for people that aren't using vinyl.

Just thought I'd mention that I've been using these hour-long control signals for a long while now and they've been working great!! I'm gonna make a 4-hour version so I never have to reload the track :)

Are you running the signal from a usb key or a mp3 cd?

I have a USB drive in one of my players and then I link it over to the other. I'm always in REL so it works out nicely. It wouldn't work if you used ABS - at least not beyond the first 15min. It still boggles me why they haven't generated a longer control signal for CD or people that use MP3s.

That said, I just switched over to a laptop that has USB 2.0 so I'm gonna mess with the HID support, but I'm still gonna make a longer control signal. I highly recommend the MP3 linked above - I've used it tons of parties and it's been 100% reliable, including switching to INT at the end.

Mike

Thanks Mike, will try it out. Also gonna try to make a 4 hr signal. I have the cdj1000mk3,
so no usb or hid for me.. www.flickr.com

I prefer using the techs, but for the occasional mobile gig its easier to bring the cdjs.
Until now, I just have a cdj cue (on sd card) set at about 00:30 and play every track from there, using REL.

If you'd like, I can make it for ya. I have it all laid out in sound forge so I can cut and paste the appropriate sections for any multiple of 15m and then tack the INT section on the end. Just name your length :)

Cool Mike appreciate it!
If you're making a 4hr Id absolutely take that. I'll PM my email address. THANKS!!

I use it on cd in my 3700 when im not using hybrid and it works fine.

My original link up above is now broken because I moved the control signal MP3s to a new location. As requested by another user, I created a 4hr control MP3 as well. This will work in RELATIVE ONLY!!! If you try and use it in absolute, it will jump back to the beginning of the track every 15m as I created the audio files by copying the first 15m of the signal and then I tack the INT section on at the end.


1hr *RELATIVE ONLY* control signal (128kbps MP3 - 56MB):

[link removed]

4hr *RELATIVE ONLY* control signal (128kbps MP3 - 224MB):

[link removed]

I use this off of a thumb drive on my CDJ-900s and it works great - it will drop to INT somewhere in the last 54 frames or so. I have played *many* parties with the 1hr-long control signal and it's been a godsend compared to the standard 15m CD. Plus, you can get creative and save the control signal alongside your other MP3s on a CD or thumb drive so you'll have your control signal and backup music should SSL freak out for one reason or another.

And since someone wanted a longer control signal, I made a 4hr version which should really be that much better as you'll probably never have to reload the track. I did notice that my CDJ's time gets screwy because the display can't handle more than 99m, but it still plays fine.

I'll leave these up for a little bit until I need to clear off the web space, but that shouldn't be for months.

Enjoy!
Mike

msoultan,

Modifying and re-hosting ANY content on serato.com without permission is a no-no.

Please don't do it.

just make a minute loop.

Then I hope this would spur the Serato crew into generating a longer loop. It has been immensely helpful, and now that we're in the age of MP3s and CDs, it doesn't really make much sense to use vinyl length as the limiting factor for the audio signal. On top of that, every time SSL goes to INT, the pitch drifts ever so slightly requiring you to make more pitch adjustments even after you've already gotten everything dialed in.



And minute loops don't work well because it glitches at the loop point. Nothing worse than recording an hour long set with predictable glitches. Yes, I'm a perfectionist.

it shouldnt.

make a shorter loop and you'll hear it

why not make a longer loop, thats why i said a minute or so

Because then you have a glitch every minute. In addition to the fact that you have to set up that loop every time you get on the player. It's much easier to load up a track that will last you 4 hours and there's no hassle.

Obviously, we can come up with all sorts of shortcuts, but the ideal solution is to have a control CD that last longer than 15 minutes. I already have a kludgy solution, which is just a little bit less kludgy than your suggestion... only longer ;) The real goal here is to get Serato to offer a control signal that is longer than 15 minutes for everyone's benefit.

you could use hid cd players.wav cds are only gonna last 80 mins max.

80 minutes would be an improvement, or they release an MP3 version in various lengths - 1hr, 2hr, whatever. I created a 4hr mp3 that works great - only problem is you can't use it in ABS mode.

And yes, I also use HID, but not every player is HID, so when I play somewhere else, I bring my custom CDs with a long MP3 or a custom-made hour-long audio CD.

My point is that I shouldn't be making custom solutions - my friends (and other forum users) ask for my special control signal because the short version also bothers them so I'm not the only one that sees this as a frustration. Like I've stated already, it would be helpful if people (like you) helped to support the push for Serato to come up with longer formats instead of providing alternative shortcuts. Maybe, just maybe, then Serato might make it a priority to generate a longer control signal in various formats.

I found somebody selling burnt CDs of the hour long control signal on Ebay (australia) for $10 each today.

I play vinyl and taking the 1/4 second to pull the needle back every 15 minutes isn't really that painful. Plus it adds to the effect of the turntables for my audience. And the fact that IF I forget the system goes to INT mode covers my @$$ for me! I'm good with what I've got.

I have the hr long it was posted on this forum for a long time. its 75 minutes long and works great

Wow.. people selling it?! That's even *more* reason for Serato to offer a legitimate MP3 control signal of various lengths. At least I was offering here on the forum for free and for the Serato staff to see it.

This is VERY uncool and the seller can expect a not-so-friendly call from a Serato rep soon.

I figure the guy selling it probably did rip it off here and started burning it.

To the Serato crew, is there a reason you haven't generated a longer version? I would be interested to know what's up.

thanks!
Mike

Rane listen up there's no reason that the control signal shouldn't be longer than 15 minutes...I would very much like to see an official hr long version.

I think they are pretty bust getting 2.4 ready and all the mess that will bring. its gonna be nuts all the changes as far as video and no mix emergecy and no ableton mixtape for the 61 and 62. they have there hands full i think

Yes, so instead they're going to continually spend a bunch of time hastling people who are making bootleg control CDs because that's not using up valuable resources towards 2.4, right?

*hassling

yeah and I want the cd to be colored too.

You can paint my mp3 any color you want to ;)

this is the dumbest request ever. of all the things, a longer time control cd.

Which is exactly why so many people ask me for it. Yeah, they must all be dumb, too.

its just pointless for the company to waste time and effort on something that trivial. how many people asked for it? i didnt say they were dumb, you can be smart and say some stupid things and vice versa. but really focus efforts else where or make your own, oh you already have? then why ya asking???

Trivial to you, useful to others. Every DJ that I've told about it absolutely loves it.

And I think there are some great benefits. One, you don't have to keep resetting the deck, which is really helpful. Second, if you're in a long mix and it goes into INT, the pitch will shift slightly and it will throw off the mix. Not a big deal for the hip hop kids, but annoying for people doing long mixes. Also, you don't have to worry about switching a deck to INT ahead of an up-coming mix (so you have track control) just so you can reset the track and then go back to REL. Honestly, it's just one less thing to worry about, leaving you more time to be spent on DJing instead of a technicality.

I hate to speculate (which is why I have refrained from doing so), but I'm venturing to guess that the control signal was generated by a program of some sort. So, why not have it generate a version that's longer and be done with it. Again, while you say they're wasting time on trivial stuff, they now waste time trying to stop people from selling bootleg products. If they came back and said it was some horribly long process to create it, then yeah, I don't think they should devote a ton of energy. However, if if's not a huge burden, then why not provide a simple thing to make a lot of people's lives easier. However, I don't think it's wrong to ask. Otherwise we're all just wasting our time on here asking for things that are important to us.

insert first loop point at 1 min, fast forward approx 9 mins and create the loop. 9 minute loop = less glitches.

WOW, I can't beleive this never occured to me before. I play on 2000's all the time and I guess this would work with the original wav control signal

Does this happen with CD players which have a steady pitch? I doubt it.


The process of generating the control signal has been described of the forum. Read here serato.com

So in consequence, you can't just simply make it longer without having to rewrite the control signal decoder.

Use HID. Case solved.

One of the main reasons I use an NS7 is because the control signal never runs out. Serato does a lot of stuff right, but they also do some things that I wonder why they did it that way. The 15 minute CD being one of them. Why they didn't come out with a 74 minute time code on a CD from the very start is beyond me. Not giving you an option to turn off the two unused decks on the NS6 to give you more screen real-estate is another one. You would think that making a 74 minute CD or even longer MP3 CD, would be something easy for Serato to do, but there is probably some technical reason why they don't, but if others have done it, I don't see what the big deal is.

Yeah, I still have yet to see or hear an explanation as to why it can't be done. In the link that Nik posted, I didn't find anything mentioning a limitation. And unless Nik wants to provide HID setups at every gig, we're still gonna be stuck using the control CD at gigs that have non-HID decks, like CDJ-1000s, which are still used heavily.

it seems that they originally designed it, i would think, to emulate the control signal of the vinyl timecodes. 15 mins. ts2 is 27:30. i still think its such a non issue, that they really never thought about it. in any business you must prioritize, and this is probably a low priority when you have various platforms of dvs to deal with among other things. we can all surely surmise that if it was as simple as ctrl c cntl v in logic, they would have done it.


just because its a huge priority for you, doenst mean thats the most pressing issue for other users or the writers of the software. patience grasshopper.

because at some point after 15 minutes the software thinks that this means either "vinyl scroll mode" or the end of the record.

I believe that is due to the fact that there's code in the audio signal that tells it to do so. I don't think that's the limiting factor, though.

Ok feel me on this! The time coded cd is 15 mins yet every month a new color vinyl is out.
Time coded cd have a 2nd track to scroll thru the library yet the Rane 62 has a knob for this function!
Why can't we get a limited edition 1 track 30-60 time coded cd for a cost of colored vinyl!

Heh.. got me!

wierd. I normally just make a loop on the CDJ for 10 seconds and it plays that way all night... also, you can open the timecode in yoru favorite editing app, extend it to 80 mins, save as wav, burn... I did with the timecode they provide on the site. again, you can always do a manual loop with the CDJ within that 15 min timeframe of the CD version.

I'm not a big fan of looping on the CDJ because I get a very slight hiccup. I also prefer to have a nice clean solution that doesn't require futzing around with my decks, which is why I made my hour-long (and recently, 4-hour long) control CD. Works great, but they removed the links to the download...

I did the 80 min loop b4 but for some reason I noticed it wasn't the same as the original. Maybe its just me.

I would like to try that one out!

Hopefully Serato will make one (hint hint)

+1 when I have to use CDJs this always works fine


don't start the loop from the beginning of the CD

hitting loop in then loop out is pretty technical

hmmm, wonder why?

www.threadbombing.com

I love how people love to come up with these half-ass methods of doing things, tedious as they may be, requiring those work-arounds to be done every time the deck is turned on... all that effort put forth instead of rallying together for a common and improved solution. It really makes no sense why you wouldn't want a longer control signal, or at least support a group of users that do - or maybe you like pushing for half-ass solutions... call me crazy! But hey, if you really enjoy setting loops every single time you turn on your decks and you want to promote that and then bash on me for trying to request improvements, by all means keep doing so.. you're on a roll!

fixed


Really man, I hear you, it would be nice. But this "workaround" is not half assed or a hassle at all. Think of ALL the time Im wasting making that loop at the beginning of the night when the club is empty...

What is half-ass is you taking Serato's intellectual property, messing with it, posting for free download, and then acting butt-hurt when they take down the link.

I think it simply boils down to the fact that the control signal was designed for a 15 minute vinyl. There are markers in there to indicate how far along the needle is on the vinyl (or control CD). May it is easy to just churn out an extra 45 minutes of time code, maybe it isn't. Maybe their patent only applies to a 15 signal. We just don't know.

When using control vinyl, we need to bring back the needle on every other song, don't hear [b]anyone[/b[ complaining about this. What's wrong with taking a split second to set a quick loop?

OK I see what you mean by that. But remember you can visually see that the needle is going to the end. When your in the mix of things (granted there is an end flashing track reminder on the cdj's) it would be nice to not think about it.

Believe me, I know it's not that difficult to do, but one less thing to deal with makes it all that much easier. It's also much less confusing when teaching people how to mix - one less thing to cause confusing during the mix is always an improvement!



I'm not hurt that they took it down, nor do I blame them, and I'm kinda surprised they took this long to do so because it's been up and publicized in multiple threads for a loooooong time now. My goal in doing this was in hopes that they would realize how helpful it is and release an updated control signal. The only way you can get someone to do something is make them understand the benefit to their customers. The fact that people *still* ask me for it is proof that people find it helpful. And, on top of that, there's also someone selling one on e-bay (which I have absolutely no connection with) so the need obviously exists.



Which is why I've asked Serato repeatedly, and everyone *except* Serato provides the answer. We can all keep speculating but it's just that, speculation.



As for moving the needle, I hated having to move the needle back every time, especially when I wanted to move it right before I was about to do a mix but it handn't gone to INT yet - it was annoying. If we don't have to live in the vinyl-age, why do it? Using old technology is not valid for justification when there is newer and better technology. And yes, I know there is HID, but not every situation allows for HID.

Well, in support of Serato, having to support random knock-offs of something can get tedious. They probably have copyright over the signal.

While I do understand that mine is a knock-off, I did spend a great deal of time testing to make sure that my signal was clean and worked reliably, but that was without the cooperation of Serato, so they have no quality assurance of my work...

The answer is on the forum if you read correctly.

I was going to say, that is definitely illegal. But, since we're on the topic, is there a possibility of Serato offering extended length control signal MP3's?

Nik, I visited the link you posted and I saw no explanation of why it can't be longer - that, or I'm reading incorrectly :)

and thus switches to internal play mode

So you're telling me that it's completely hard-wired and can't ever be changed?! I never knew that software was all based on 15 minute intervals...

... and just so there's no confusion, I wasn't being serious ;) Nothing is ever hard-wired - the record was encoded and the software interprets it in a certain way because it was programmed to interpret that way. What you wrote above explains how the current system works, not why it can't be updated to handle a re-encoded control signal that runs for longer than 15 minutes.

I doubt they would ever endorse and MP3 version of the signal, for quality purposes...

Because MP3s definitely don't have enough fidelity to represent an encoded 1k signal, right?

No, because MP3 is a half-assed solution when there is a wav version available

You know, that has nothing to do with it being longer than 15 minutes, which is the whole point of this conversation. Feel free to start another MP3 bashing thread.

no, just pointing out that your .mp3 file workaround is more half-assed than my short .wav loop workaround.

all i'm saying is that is the reason why you can not do it right now cause that is how it is designed

i was not assuming someone said that.
what has been said is that right now, you can not simply extend the NFSR code by generating a longer one, to e.g. one hour cause the software is designed in a way that only expects 15 or 17 or X minutes

LFSR

*fixed

Designs can be updated, software can be rewritten, and code can be extended. Still nobody has explained why it can't be done other than "the software was not designed to read a longer code".

it could be done IF the software gets changed.

just not with the current software.

not with the current *version* of the software ;)

ms, I don't know what you're bugging about. Karl has already explained the reason.

I saw an explanation in that thread of how it worked, but not why it can't be extended.

Karl said it here:

I'm sorry, but I don't know much about an LSFR. It would be much appreciated if you could briefly explain why the signal can't be extended.

en.wikipedia.org

There is even a graphic which could be seen as a turntable. Or at least the whole groove laid out in one rotation.

and how does that circle equate to 15 minutes?

Dude, please... Karl gave you enough hints, I gave you enough hints, there is lots of info on the linked threads.

A LSFR-based signal uses a certain amount of bits. Once you chose that signale you are limited by this amount of bits. You can not just "extend" it without using a new signal.

Hints don't make very good answers, especially when it's something complex like this... which is why I keep asking for a clear explanation of why the signal can't be extended (assuming an update to the software would be required as well). And on top of that, if there's anyone I'd hope to be more helpful and supportive, it would be the Tech Mates, but I guess that's an unrealistic expectation.

Hi msoultan.

the number of bits you choose for one "word" in your code limits the overall possible combinations.

so lets say you have 16 bits, then this means 2 to the power of 16 combinations.
this also means, a code word is only identified without doubt after reading 16 bits without error in a row, starting with a "first bit of the next codeword"

the LFSR helps to make every bit a possible start. without that you would have to wait 31 bits in a worst case if one code word is 16 bit long. but enough of that LFSR it does not even matter here.

but the following is true for any code
("code" not as in source code of a program but as in "coding theory"):

using more bits would make more combinations possible but also make the lookup of a single codeword take more time as the program would have to read more bits before it can decide definitely where the playhead is.
i.e you could create a longer control signal but it would not perform so good anymore.

so what you ask for might be of use for very few people but would mean a disadvantage for everyone else, as they don't need too long timecode signals, but they do need precise tracking

That was a great answer! I *really* appreciate you taking the time to explain that so I can better understand what's going on. I agree that you would not want to lose the precision.

thanks!
Mike

Not for nothing that make sense. I like an extended CD but the original CD works best!

Here's simple instructions on how to make a longer signal. I haven't tried it yet but keen to see if it works:

www.youtube.com

PM me if you want a copy - works great

I had a play with it last night. I saved it as a 320kbps mp3 then made an 80 minute audio cd from it. The cd’s switch to internal mode at the end and handled all the scratching I threw at it without an issue.
Totally worth doing if you’re looking for an extended time code cd/usb. It’s so much nicer to play with.

Dude... just scroll up. You have been asked by Serato NOT to distribute modified control signal copies because this is illegal.

SMH.

Oops