Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
VCI-300 vs XONE DX vs NS7: a fair sound comparison
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

VCI-300 vs XONE DX vs NS7: a fair sound comparison

djcerla 1:01 PM - 13 March, 2010
Hi guys,

Having all 3 units I had the chance to test how they sound compared to each other.

As far as output volume is concerned, the VCI-300 is the quietest of the bunch, followed by the DX. The NS7 is the loudest by a large margin.

However, those differences in volume can be easily ironed out by raising the club mixer analog gain control. So, how they sound when you NORMALIZE the files, thus cancelling the differences in volume? The sound quality of the soundcards can now be compared.

Here are the snippets: I've recorded two versions for each machine, the first (REGULAR) is recorded at the suggested level, the second (MAXED OUT) is recorded with both MASTER and GAIN knobs set to maximum. Everything was recorded in Logic Pro using the RCA outs, with the same cable entering directly an Apogee AD16-X converter, then INDIVIDUALLY normalized, and finally exported as 320 kbps MP3s.

VCI 300 (REGULAR) idisk.mac.com
VCI 300 (MAXED OUT) idisk.mac.com

XONE:DX (REGULAR) idisk.mac.com
XONE:DX (MAXED OUT) idisk.mac.com

NS7 (REGULAR) idisk.mac.com
NS7 (MAXED OUT) idisk.mac.com

Not that dramatic difference, isn't it? :-)
djcerla 1:08 PM - 13 March, 2010
As a reference, this is the original track (converted directly from the WAV) --> idisk.mac.com
kraal 3:19 PM - 13 March, 2010
good to know :)
MusicDan 3:26 PM - 13 March, 2010
Quote:

Not that dramatic difference, isn't it? :-)


I was wondering what the difference was. I am glad I read that last part...
DJ dVO 4:51 PM - 13 March, 2010
So if I get it right, this sound level/quality comparison was only done plugging into a club's mixer, i.e. using RCA cables?

I never like the idea of plugging the NS7 main out into another mixer, it takes away the sound quality of the NS7.

For that reason, I would recommend doing the sound comparison plugging the PA system directly into the mixer under consideration, using all the same variables such as gain, etc.
djcerla 4:57 PM - 13 March, 2010
The sound comparison was made plugging the RCA outs DIRECTLY into the converter, no mixer involved.
I1Kirm 5:27 PM - 13 March, 2010
dVO, he used this www.apogeedigital.com to do the comparison. This is a $3000 analog to digital converter and arguably one of the best out there.
DJ dVO 5:50 PM - 13 March, 2010
I see.....
Cid K 5:57 PM - 13 March, 2010
Interesting Cerla, glade to hear that the DX doesnt sound that bad after all heheheh :-P
Pauer 4:42 PM - 26 April, 2010
djcerla I hear the 3 units pretty similar.
Compared to the WAV it's obviously very depresing. :)
you think DX sounds better than VCI300?
djcerla 5:14 PM - 26 April, 2010
Quote:
you think DX sounds better than VCI300?


the purpose of the sound snippets is to let people judge the sound by themselves :)
BaxXxteR 7:49 PM - 26 April, 2010
NS7 Rules & 4ever !
PapiC 5:30 PM - 12 December, 2010
Quote:
As a reference, this is the original track (converted directly from the WAV) --> idisk.mac.com

So what do I need to do to sound like the original??? Use a Xone 4D???Start using SL3???
I don´t know....
The difference between the controllers is not that big - the sound of the original track is a lot more precise - and exactly what I´m always missing.(I listened to the comparison with Sennheiser HD 25 1/II) Last gig I worked with a guy using Numark CD players - he had a nice dry bass - I had the easy to use unit LOL I´ve never been a SL user, always on Pioneer CDJs. I love ITCH/VCI300 but I´m not satisfied with the soundquality - now I know why..........
Ahhh; let´s wait....
djcerla 5:55 PM - 12 December, 2010
Of course is more precise: it didn't pass thru 2 AD/DA conversions! Lol
PapiC 7:36 PM - 12 December, 2010
For sure - but In the end the only aspect which counts is the result - does the "normal" listener notice the difference in the club?
djcerla 8:27 PM - 12 December, 2010
Quote:
does the "normal" listener notice the difference in the club?


No.
Rebelguy 6:34 PM - 13 December, 2010
Quote:
For sure - but In the end the only aspect which counts is the result - does the "normal" listener notice the difference in the club?


Two of my clients noticed the difference between my SL-3 and the VCI-300. That was the main reason the VCI got returned.
DJ Chele 8:53 PM - 13 December, 2010
That is a very interesting comparison,
being a VCI-300 owner, I have never had issues in the club since the normal listener does not notice the small difference sound,

now I open the floor for a general comparison between VCI-300 and Xone DX

Currently, I am very interested in having the ability to use 4 decks, it adds some much fun and personality to the sets, you can play with clips from other songs,
remix live with more versatility and depth,

so I am in the dilema of: "do i get a Xone DX now or do I wait for vestax to design a real 4 deck controller since the Vestax VCI-100 MKII is not the real deal"

is the Xone as stable as the VCI?
are there many bugs with Xone DX Drivers?
djcerla 9:05 PM - 13 December, 2010
Hi Chele, this is an inreresting topic and I have a suggestion for you. Just open a new discussion.
djcerla 9:06 PM - 13 December, 2010
*interesting
DJ Chele 9:09 PM - 13 December, 2010
I did!

thanks
seratosnatch 9:48 PM - 13 December, 2010
sound should be almost the same, but think the DX has louder outs.
It is a digital world guys...Itch should be the same in all 3 as same software.
there are no DA convertors or conversion. only bit outs.
djcerla 9:55 PM - 13 December, 2010
There are DEFINITELY different D/A converters in play, and dramatically different output circuitry, the NS7 being the clear winner.
PapiC 2:30 PM - 14 December, 2010
Quote:
There are DEFINITELY different D/A converters in play, and dramatically different output circuitry, the NS7 being the clear winner.


I´ve seen the fotos of some of your gigs in front of a huge crowd spinning with the VCI300 (MK1 or MK2?) and with the NS7.

Do you think that this difference of the output has influence on the quality of your job?
djcerla 2:38 PM - 14 December, 2010
Quote:
Do you think that this difference of the output has influence on the quality of your job?


In my opinion: not at all.

Since I figured out how to set the VCI-300 gains correctly, I have been very happy with it. V7s and NS7 are sonic heaven but a VCI-300 has enough sound quality to rock a stadium full of people (not to mention the MKII !).
djcerla 2:56 PM - 14 December, 2010
PS this picture visually shows the difference in output volume between the Xone:DX and the NS7 (first wave regular, second wave maxed out) --> files.me.com

The VCI-300 is much quieter than the DX. The NS7 is a gain monster.
PapiC 3:13 PM - 14 December, 2010
Interesting! Thank you!
djkrazyleo 9:46 PM - 14 December, 2010
but just to chime in the 300 mk2 is serious when it comes to output i could hardly tell the difference between the mk2,the v7,s with the ttm 57 are even just using the 57 with scratchlive.i would love to compare the ns7 to the mk2.
djcerla 10:23 PM - 14 December, 2010
Quote:
i would love to compare the ns7 to the mk2.


according to Serato, the Vestax VCI-300 MKII is the 2nd loudest ITCH device, trailing the NS7.
Rebelguy 11:19 PM - 14 December, 2010
Quote:
Quote:


i would love to compare the ns7 to the mk2.


according to Serato, the Vestax VCI-300 MKII is the 2nd loudest ITCH device, trailing the NS7.


Only if you use the power adapter.
djcerla 11:24 PM - 14 December, 2010
yup
PapiC 7:45 AM - 15 December, 2010
Do you know if Vestax also improved the soundquality or only the volume of the VCI300 MK2 ?
djcerla 10:02 AM - 15 December, 2010
No, as I haven't tested it. However, my impression is that not all vci users know how to set their gains correctly, leading to a limited, boxy sound.
djkrazyleo 1:58 PM - 15 December, 2010
yes sir they sure did, i had the opportunity to have had both the first vci 300 and now the 300 mk2 at the same time, i did the test and it definitely sounds better and more full when compared using the adapter. normally how i like to set my line gain is @ 12 o clock and my master gain anywhere from 12 to 2 depending on the system and how much gain i get from the input line eq filters for me normally i tweek depending on mp3 file some files depending on original recording might need little adjustments in some area low,mid,high.
djcerla 2:09 PM - 15 December, 2010
With 1.7 it's impossible to do wrong though, as a red LIMITER dot shows up when the limiter kicks in. Staying clear from it will make your unit sound at its best.
djkrazyleo 3:02 PM - 15 December, 2010
yes sir.
Rebelguy 4:58 PM - 15 December, 2010
Quote:
Do you know if Vestax also improved the soundquality or only the volume of the VCI300 MK2 ?


There is no mention of any changes to the sound quality of the mk2. They specifically state on vestax's site that there are "usability improvements based on feedback from VCI-300 customers."

They have boosted the output which some people may see as a sound quality improvement as they don't have to turn it up as loud and possibly distort the signal.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Matt-C 12:07 AM - 16 December, 2010
Quote:
according to Serato, the Vestax VCI-300 MKII is the 2nd loudest ITCH device, trailing the NS7.


Actually, the VCI-300 MK II is the loudest when plugged in with a power adaptor.
It is still as loud as most normal pro audio devices when not plugged in.

There is some 'increased' audio quality, mainly because users won't be slamming the limiter or distorting their gain structure.

I'd certainly recommend you guys have a listen to the MK II if you haven't.
djcerla 12:14 AM - 16 December, 2010
Really louder than the +26.3 dBu of the NS7? Really?
Rebelguy 8:47 AM - 16 December, 2010
I am sure Matt would know.
mrddyn 12:32 PM - 16 December, 2010
Nice comparison, will check it out at home (no sound on the work pc).

@ djcerla: the proper gain settings you mention, I am sure this has been discussed in the forum. I couldn't find the proper tpic, could you point me in the right direction? Or post a picture of your gain settings, this would be very helpfull. I try to stay clear of the limiter, just sometimes it kicks in with all my knobs at the 0 mark (bass,treble etc). I assume this is then an autogain issue where it's gain has been increased too much?
djcerla 12:42 PM - 16 December, 2010
I know that in 1.7 the limiter light shows up when hitting (and not **exceeding**) 0db; on a V7 you'd expect it to never light up as you don't have a gain control, but it does light up sometimes, indeed, on contemporary dance music (which is very squashed, peaking constantly at digital 0db). This is not correct and should be fixed in the next ITCH versions.

Quote:
the proper gain settings you mention, could you point me in the right direction?


Try master out at 3 o'clock and set your gains in order to get no steady LIIMITER light on. On the VCI, you should have the first red LED steadily lit, and the 2nd red LED flashing.
mrddyn 7:52 PM - 16 December, 2010
Thanks djcerla! Helpful as ever.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Matt-C 1:30 AM - 17 December, 2010
Yeah - the VCI mk IIs are beasts...
kraal 1:32 AM - 17 December, 2010
Quote:
Yeah - the VCI mk IIs are beasts...

shhhh makes us original vci-300 owners feel inadequate
kraal 1:32 AM - 17 December, 2010
:)