It should be exactly the same as the 56 have you set the curve to fast?

i have the countour in the middle, but anyway the cut in is way too long , about 4mm, it hard to crab.... any options?

what's it like if you set the contour all the way to fast?

If that is still too long you may need to adjust the sensors on the fader.

Is it the same at both ends or do you just have a problem on one end of the fader?

i would say its pretty much de same in both ends , and yes the conyour is all the way to "fast", it has a little delay prob like 3 mm........... maybe its fine and itsthe way it should be

My fader cut-in is a little over 1 mm with the contour set all the way to fast.

Mine is too. Its a little over 1mm. 3mm sounds way too much.

yah my buddies 56 sounds alot sharper than my 57.i also own a technics mixer and it sounds way sharper than 57.there should be a firmware update? or did i get stuck with a bad batch? peace!

sold my 56 for the 57. no noticeable differences regarding cut in

Xfader cut-in does exactly that when the contour is set in the middle, cut-in, not a smooth transition.

However when set to slow fade, I like the way it fades but the 3db dip is terrible. I'm no scrtach DJ and hope that they have a fix for this in the next beta project.

i have the xfader set to fast because i am a scratch dj. so doing the crab on the 56 sounds alot sharper and you dont have to open the fader as much to get the sound out compared to the 57.

Unlike the 56, the new 57 as told to me couple weeks ago, the contour/curve can be programmatically alerted through firmware updates. I'm still hanging on to this mixer under the impression that this can be done and will confirm these facts again with Rane's project Manager when he gets back. Hopefully he can put this into a project for next month. Xfader in this state isn't working for me.

sdaasd - looking forward to hearing what the RANE project manager says. Thanks.

Yeah sdaasd keep us up to date. If ya have to show him a link to this thread on the change we all would like.

does Rane evan read the posts here cuz they havnt replyed to anyt of them. i also asked the the same question on the help forum www.scratchlive.net and Rane said it has to be same as the 56 which is not true because i tryed my buddies 56 side by side. i think we should compain about this on the post i made in the help forum.

Whoever gets Rane on the phone, we should ask them to take input from us on what we are looking for in the design. In general, I think if we had software based adjustment of curve contour and fader cut-in across the channels, cross and headphone faders we would be covering the needs addressed by this post and a few other posts on this topic. Beyond that they could look at how to manage these settings. For example, is it a set it once and you are done or can we toggle with a live button between preset A (scratch style setup) and preset B (club mix setup). Then a DJ could flip from scratch style and club mix style without going to a setup screen and continue to mix and scratch at will.

they read this.. but .. just like in the Beta Test forum.. they wont always post.

I can assure you the persons delagated to Serato/Rane product do post in here from time to time and do read the TTm57 thread. But when you talk to them, they appear to have other adjendas planned for the product which may not neccessarily include x-fader change or the things we want improvments on.

Fader probably won't change because it currently serves the purpose for most users (guessing), that is for scratching/cutting and so unfortunately won't satisfy everyone needs. So unless we keep bitching as a group together, you hope they will eventually heed to our complaints.

there is power in numbers :-)

i'd love to be able to change presets for x-fader curves.

is the 3db dip that you're talking about when you have it on slow settings, and when the x fader reaches the middle, the total volume of both songs drops? please explain. i don't have this mixer but am thinking about buying it and if it is like that it will piss me off. had a similar probem on my friend's 909. i don't use the volume faders much, just slow fade cross fader and eq's

The 3dB dip is related to a constant power panning law, it's a pretty standard design approach for crossfaders (or it used to be - with people tending to kill the bass frequencies anyway and not mixing identical tracks it's probably not that useful).
The middle contour setting should remove this I guess (though some have said that's a bit too sharp).
Just move the crossfader slower..... ;)

is the 3db dip that you're talking about when you have it on slow settings, and when the x fader reaches the middle, the total volume of both songs drops? please explain. i don't have this mixer but am thinking about buying it and if it is like that it will piss me off. had a similar probem on my friend's 909. i don't use the volume faders much, just slow fade cross fader and eq's


You are correct... I hate this feature.

We have been reading your posts regarding the crossfader contour response for the TTM 57SL. Please note that the contour for the TTM 57SL is identical to the TTM 56 and is designed to accommodate a broad range of styles which ranges from constant power (3db dip in the middle) all the way to fast cut (no dip).

While it may be technically possible to make a change in the contours there is no plan at present to do so.

We have included variable contour to accommodate the broadest possible range of mixing styles. If we change the end stop to accommodate what you are asking for, it would deny other users of the settings that they are currently using.

my only problem is the dip in the middle is too much for the slow cut, i have to use the upfaders instead.

ya same here, im using the upfaders..

i do think there should be a dip, just not so deep.

agreed. also the if you change the contour to anything other then slow.. the fader cuts to fast....


enough complaining!!!
serato is the shit!!!

I agree with you partially, technology wise that is. Its easy for you to express it that way as you do not currently own a TTM-57 nor had to fork out $1700.00 for the unit like I did and was sort of disappointed couple days later when I finally had the time to test it out.

I'm accustom to Rane for the last 20 years and hadn't know of this forum before I procured the unit, if I had known of the dip, I would have reconsidered the investment and stuck with my MP24z which IMO has the best curve for my purpose. Unfortunately I had thought with the additional contour settings, I'd accomplished the same effect, but found out when it was too late that I was wrong.

I realized the hard way that I should have done my own personal researh rather than to follow the reviews of others. I cannot return the unit as it too late (Dec 06) and also have invested alot around this mixer. For now I can only wish for customization in the near future, hopefully not too far away to appease those in minority like myself who do wish for this change.

I also was unaware and unaccustomed to the -3dB dip and I was encouraged to see a software based curve adjustment by this posting from Sam. scratchlive.net

And that was THE MAIN reason why I held onto unit for this length of time without returning it. I've always had an issue with the curve and after reading SAM's comment was hopeful that it would manifest one day. Well, that post was almost a year ago and since then no follow up from either parties, Rane nor Serato.

Someone commented that powers are in numbers, so lets see how much support we can get on this issue to get them to change it.

we need a poll to try to get this problem fixed.

I have a PMC Pro 08 and a 57 and I think the fader quality is awsome on the RANE and not so much on the vestax... however I think the PMC is sharper, but I think quality always wins or ability.

don't think there is a difference between my 56 & 57 for the crossfader cut in.

having the smallest 'lag' in a fader is not always a good thing.on the pioneer 909 if you have the lag adjustment on the smallest settin it becomes really hard to use until you add some lag with the adjuster.

think the amount of lag on the 56/57 is about right.

I see no point in 'fixing' this issue - because like Dean mentioned, all you will do is exclude people. The curve is continuously adjustable, so you can remove the dip if you want. If it still feels too sharp you will have to learn to live with it. I can't see what all the fuss is about.

Same here.


Disagree.
1st: You can have an optional curve change, for example only when the mixer is in SSL mode. Not sure thought how practical that is
2nd: Sam kinda confirmed it will be possible at *some* time. So I think it should be added.

Deft, base on your profile, you seem to be involved with scratching, and if so can related 100% why wouldn't have a need to fuss like some because it currently serve the purpose as intended for you and other cut-in scratch type DJ's.

For those whose are accoustom to the 2nd generation curve slope of Rane mixers like myself or other custom curve styles, will want a change and can only accomplish that through the forum, with the hope that someone in upper management at Rane/Serato listens and create an action plan.

Judging by a conversation with them a few weeks ago it seems this need/feature isn't critical nor is the current curve sold with mixer a design flaw and so the need for change has fallen on deaf ears.

Rane utimately dcides what best for this product not Serato as it's their name at stake. So the final verdict will have to come from a Rane representative.

I wonder where's the census that shows 3db dip is acceptable to most DJ's and is it indicated in the marketing of the product?

I totally agree with you in my experience. I found that most DJs, either want a very sharp cut or a slow fade. With both tracks playing at 100% in the centre of the crossfader. I've not met many people who like having 3dB dip in the centre of the fader.

i dont know anyone who likes the dip who mixes house. the mixes always get noticeably quieter when moving the crossfader just a half inch. the loudness from the channel getting mixed in not loud enough to make up for it.

start a poll and you have my vote.

I agree it would be a nice to have user defined curves available, and they certainly need to fix the upfader curves - but it seems the inclusion of a 3dB dip on a continuously adjustable fader curve makes total sense to me. It's certainly not a show stopper IMO (and I do mix breaks / tech house as much as I scratch).
If I was designing a mixer with an adjustable crossfader curve I would certainly include it as a fade option.
I do agree not many people would use it though with modern dj'ing styles.

Official polls may not be a effective medium for this and results can be easily skewed. If someone from Rane's management team can assure us that the process will make a differnce and how to go about it, we can certainly start one but then again how do we vaildate that the we have successfuly collected sufficient votes to prompt a change and that the process has worked?

I think the forum is primarily used by them for feedback for identifying bugs within the application aside from general support for supported applications.

just to add my thoughts (I've started threads on the subject in the past):

3dB dip sucks. The mild dip offered by the 'middle' contour setting is acceptable but the curve is almost 'instant on'.
The crossfader curve and dip has to be the most bitched about feature - not changing it would be crazy.
Customisable has to be the way to go aka Pioneer 909

i dont yet own a 57 but plan on buying one very soon, i am a scratch dj and i like having as tight a cut as possible, for those lightning fast crabs :o)
im all with customizable presets
i have only used the ttm once and was 100% satisfied tho so i will wait untill i get mine

exactly. NO dip. that's what i need.

also do you all notice the the middle contour setting fads almost as the fast setting?

yes, that's the main problem with it. If it were a slow fade but without the 3dB dip, I think it would satisfy most people.

so fast its unuseable for house, tribal stuff

might as well use the upfaders

I agree the middle is still very fast.


That minimal option to remove the dip on the maximum slow setting would be a big step forward for making the crossfader usable in that setting.



Yep! Same problem here.

Sounds like your 57 needs its sensors adjusting. The cut in should be identical to the 56. Search the forum for details on how to do this.

I think the TTM56 manual (not the 57, the 56) has the guide to adjusting the Hall effect sensors.

The updated TTM57 manual online has the guide as well.

The new 57 manual is better, the photos are in colour.

We can talk about this subject till we're blue in the face. Considering that polls may not be an effective method for convincing Rane to make the change, unlees they deem it neccessary or have it already scheduled in a upcoming project, what's the next course of action?

<b>Can a Rane representative respond to this question?</b>

sdaasd good question to rane.

so i called zach yest about my crossfader cut-in time. the left side of the fader is awsome it opens up within 1mm and the right side is the bad side which opens up atleast in 2.5mm. he told me bout bending the hall sensor down till it opened up as the same on the left but it made no difference. so that being he told me to send it to there head office and they'll take a look at it, but i just drove there and droped it off myself only took 2 hours lol. hope they fix it, its all up 2 them now.

scratchlive.net

quoting from that previous post date 1 year ago.



MIDI is planned for 1.8

Nothing is planned for the curve control

I have had the mixer since the second batch left the factory. The platform has definitely grown since launch but will we be waiting another year for the next hardware improvement?

Spoke with Sam from Serato regarding TTM contour, he says Rane has had discussions with them about it at NAMM, in addition to firmware updates and other stuff but says no definitive project plan has been put in place for it yet.

Right now the priority is the reworking the effects engine which should be released in a few weeks but is taking bit longer than aniticipated. He sounds optimistic that modifications to the xfader contour is doable and that the change may happen soon, possibly right after the effects project.

How do I feel, well I won't hold my breath until Rane responds. We're at the mercy of Rane. The ball is in their court to make things happpen much quicker, they hold the handle while Serato and us customers hold the blade.

sdaasd - thanks for the info. i am also looking forward to a reworked effects engine. it's promising to hear that at least it was discussed between the two parties.

nice way to put the situation on context. ;-)

sdaasd - thanks for good information. im glad all of our complaining might have got us somewhere. look forward to seeing this contour problem fixed. thanks rane

Wow, I'm glad that I am not the only one who does not like the 3db dip. I hope they fix this soon... RANE, I'll buy you guys a beer (or two!) if you *fix* this for all of us ! ;-)

in terms of the dip:

say you have the x fader in the exact middle, and you're using the upfaders (on slow x fader setting) then you bump the x fader a little to either side, the whole volume will jump, no? i'll never understand the point of a dip in sound in the middle it makes NO sense to me :)

If you take the xfader contour control and set it to fast....when in the middle its on full on both channels. I have found that I use up faders for mixing and the x fader for cutting. X fader for mixing is pointless and sounds bad.

Only because the curves are so badly designed for today's DJ. I assume this is what you mean?

that's how i read it! it's all about the curves.

Its the curve that fucks it up. I used to mix with the x fader alot but getting the right levels for the individual channels is way off. I would mix and when I would think im combining both channels with the x fader in the middle it would do nothing but make shit really quiet. I have gotten used to mixing with upfaders now and I have to say I do really like it a whole lot better. You guys should try it out for a little.

Well I just got F'd on my last post which was a long one.

So after careful review I'm going to send this unit back to GC.
I just purchased this thing today and noticed it right away.
I had no clue till i listened then I did a search on here. Sure it's still a great mixer but I need a unit that is more suitable to my style. It says it's suppose to flexible for different styles but I don't see it!

I can upfade and all that jazz but I've considered my options. I shouldn't be paying that much $$$$.$$ for a mixer that doesn't suit my mixing sytle. And to think, I was making the switch for the Rane name.

For this simple matter I may as well stick with my Denon. Rane may say F U then, stick with your Denon but that's not good business.

Fix it so that it may be flexible and usable for all.
Surely you can't make us ALL happy but there is a reasonable medium.

Kind Regards

What I don't get is that although Dean says they can't change it because that would remove the feature for other users, I don't see one person on here defending the dip.

Isnt there a way to change it via software? To have the best of both worlds can rane make a software upgrade to the mixer that allows contour curve adjustments using SSL?

Rane, i just received my FREE T-SHIRT,STICKERS and CONTROL VINYL.Thank you..........In the package it states please let us know if there is anything else we can do.. FIX THE CONTOUR!!...Thanks again for sick gifts!! ok back to work

maybe the quick fix that would probably keep most of us happy is to be able to turn on/off or just turn off the -3dB dip?????

Can we vote on that here then bring it to Dean's attention?

A vote would be good. This forum board offers voting functions.

I meant poll.

how do we create a poll

Forum mods - can you create a poll on this topic? paging mods. thank you.

defenders of the dip, please stand up. be heard.

WE WANT THE DIP .... WE WANT THE DIP :)

not something that will affect me as I keep it on FAST curve all the time but I'll vote get rid of it as so many people are complaining about it...

To dip or not to dip...that is the question... poll please

but, surely that's the whole point of being able to customise the x fader and other mixer features — they CAN make EVERYONE happy. I see such an opportunity here.

just a simple 'dip' switch, no pun intended. or 3 settings, -1, -2, -3 dip. i dont have to draw the whole curve for what i need.

Wouldn't it be 4 settings? =) 0, -1, -2, or -3 ? I really would prefer no dip, so I would like that "0" option.

Can anyone give a good explanation of the point of the dip anyways? I assume it has something to do with two songs playing at "full" volume would appear louder (in theory?) than them individually, so the dip helps "fix" this. This right, or it something else?

The dip is to maintain constant power.
If you layer two identical tracks over one another then the sound waves will constructively interfere to give a 3dB raise in power (or 6dB increase in voltage).

Gotchya. If we are mixing two different tracks which is normally the case, does the dB normally stay at the individual songs level or raise also? I guess I'm trying to figure out why there is a dip, when normally you don't mix 2 of the same songs...

I think we need more contour options rather than to leave it at 3db dip for those folks who like to mix two of the same songs together. I dont so I have a problem with the mixer as it is. If I'd known before I wouldn't have fork out the cash spent for it.

Are there other mixers with the same behaviour?

It happens to a degree when mixing different tracks but with similar patterns of kicks or bass lines (where the most energy of a track is contained). But considering people mixing very similar electronic style music will probably use quite a lot of eq to make their bass and kicks sit together the dip is maybe not that useful. It's whether Rane can get enough contour choices out of their little adjustment slider to keep everyone happy.

this is PERFECT. if the dip was optional i'd be buying this right now instead of sitting at work. i'd quit my job.

is this not fixable with the proper use of the EQ's though?

i think you would need 3 hands - 1 on the crossfader and 1 each for the channel gains. add gain to each channel as you move the crossfader to the dip. what i do now is move the crossfader to 1/3 then 2/3 the way across. move past the dip real quick.

I am frustrated with the whole:


I never had a 56, so did not know about the curve in the first place. And the dip, while useful to some, is clearly not liked by a lot of users. So my conclusion is that we must have a very strange style that isn't in the range of styles that they support.

The 57 is one kick-ass mixer, don't get me wrong. I LOVE the integration with SSL, and the fact it is upgradeable is amazing. However, the fact that there are no plans to even make it a user option is confusing. If a lot of people want it, you would think they could at least implement it for us. I am a software designer and when a lot of people request something that they might need but others won't, I'll still implement it since it makes the program better. And since a big selling point of the mixer was it was upgradeable, they clearly can. What's the point of a mixer being upgradeable if they can't change something (via an option) to make it work for our styles?

I suppose I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'll stop and work on using those upfaders...

bump

bump bump

No Dip +1

^^ +1!!

+1

+1

I dont think they are gonna fix this.. Serato/rane you reading this forum? can you give us a update if this feature will be added??

+1

We need to be able to get rid of the -3db dip NOW! -3db is way too much. It's useless for a non scratch DJ because, if you take the contour off of slow to eliminate the dip, it cuts in too fast. I'm a bit bugged by this because I paid good money for this and can't even use the crossfader for trance and house. And there are some times where I absolutely need to use it. RANE YOU'RE MAKING A MISTAKE WITH THIS AND LIMITING YOUR MARKET. Please come up with an adjustment for this quickly. I don't want to have to move to another mixer because I love the product otherwise.

Oh, and I know of at least 4 DJ's that haven't switched to the 57 because they tried it and hated the dip, so it isn't just me.

AFAIK, it's definitely being looked at so hang in there. It's my biggest gripe with my 57. New users should also add their names to this thread in order to voice their opinion.

Fix the Dip, Fix the Dip!

i think the fader is fine the way it is

me too

me 500

i didn't realize DJs that don't scratch still use the cross fader.

not trying to put anyone down, but i grew out of that habit a long time ago.
gains, eqs, and level faders do the job just fine.

There are a lot of house (EDM) jocks that spin with much the same style as hip hop jocks. Most probably started out spinning hip hop in the first place. And believe it or not there are people that actually mix and blend hip hop & downtempo that like to scratch and throw the fader around too...

The dip is annoying.

the mixer was based on the ttm 56 which is a skratch dj mixer if you dont like the fader maybe you should of bought a allen and heath or something

Good thing the people at Rane don't share your attitude about it.

The channel faders are not completely linear either (as compared to other mixers) so using thoes don't completely solve the problem.

this sucks

faders are dope bottomline

+1

I dont own a 57 yet but ive used a few and the dip is friggin anooying.

+20

The Allen and Heath doesn't have Serato built in. Other than this problem I love this mixer. It's just that the x fader shouldn't only be usable for one type of DJ, especially since they can make it adjustable via firmware.

Where is Rane on this subject anyway?

rane will fix it over time

Almost a year later and no resolution....as anticipated. The mixer is what it is, I'm disappointed with Rane's attention on this maater for not having a resolution, short or long term, it isn't obviously a high priority of theirs.

This is from a mod to a Video-SL-question:

Quote:
5) X-fader cut-in

I remember your post about this before and you are quite right. We've changed the next version so the scratch fader better matches the fast cut contour as a stopgap which will be available in the next Video-SL update.

We've also created a proper software implementation of how the TTM57 SL uses the fader contours so that in future we can make all the faders accurately follow the audio. This relies on an update of Scratch LIVE however so will have to wait till then.


This sounds like there is something coming...

DJ Smooth B. good looking out for posting that over here!

I think that response may only be related to how the video plug in follows the fader contours, needs clarification from someone at Serato to confirm though...

My original post was only referring to the video response to the fader so this reponse needs to be read in that context.

@Johnny 1 Move: Thanks! I read the original post to put it in context. I am hoping there is some spillover of functionality into the audio functions of the faders. BTW - nice video and suggestions you put together!

For those interested in the "curve that seems to be missing", there's another thread on this here:

scratchlive.net

here you have how to change cut-in point in rane 56 or 57sl Watchwww.youtube.com

Take the 57 stock fader off the rails and adjust the sensor and boom it's darn near an
Innofader :)