DJing Discussion
Learning to beat-match with SSL
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Learning to beat-match with SSL
b-random
1:35 AM - 25 May, 2006
I got my first set of turntables a little over a week ago and I have not really learned how to mix/beat-match yet. I'm getting SSL tommorrow and I'm wondering if I should just learn to mix using the SSL Beat Map or if I'd be better off just learning by ear. I wonder if SSL will just help me learn faster or if it will make it so I'm dependant on the visual display (which I don't want to happen). I want to learn the right way so I can beat-match without SSL also. What do you guys think?
Sim
1:36 AM - 25 May, 2006
by ear, ur cheatin urself if u use SSL to beatmatch, ull grow dependent on it, and for gigs when u dont hav SSL ur SOL
b-random
1:39 AM - 25 May, 2006
haha, nice.
You don't think it will help me learn to do it by ear?
Quote:
for gigs when u dont hav SSL ur SOLhaha, nice.
You don't think it will help me learn to do it by ear?
mister iLL
1:46 AM - 25 May, 2006
do NOT look at the waveforms if you ever want to learn how to beatmatch for real! as sim said, you will think you're nice and all that...but when it comes down to it, those waveforms will be your crutch, and you will be useless without them. yes, they help a lot....AFTER you already know how to beatmatch without them.
that said, if you are just gonna be playing around with ssl at your house and don't give a what, they will indeed make learning how to beatmatch much much easier
that said, if you are just gonna be playing around with ssl at your house and don't give a what, they will indeed make learning how to beatmatch much much easier
Sim
1:46 AM - 25 May, 2006
if u dont kno how to beatmatch, dont even look at the SSL screen, seriously, grab 2 house tracks, and practice matchin the beats, change up the pitch, match again, listen listen listen, music is audio, not visual.
After u learn how to properly beatmatch, u can be a lazy basturd like me and just stare at the SSL screen
After u learn how to properly beatmatch, u can be a lazy basturd like me and just stare at the SSL screen
b-random
1:54 AM - 25 May, 2006
cool, thanks. I'll try to resist the urge to peep the waveforms until I can beatmatch.
djtonypsalms
1:59 AM - 25 May, 2006
SIM, "music is audio, not visual."
^^ Co-sign! Use your ears...^^
^^ Co-sign! Use your ears...^^
djxatl
3:13 AM - 25 May, 2006
my advice is to buy two identical vinyls (real vinyls) and practice matching with them
nobspangle
7:41 AM - 25 May, 2006
Learning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
Personally I don't think you could learn to beat match just using the SSL display. I can do it now but I think I've only learned that as a result of being able to beatmatch already. So I've got used to how the display appears when one track is faster etc.
Quote:
my advice is to buy two identical vinyls (real vinyls) and practice matching with themLearning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
Personally I don't think you could learn to beat match just using the SSL display. I can do it now but I think I've only learned that as a result of being able to beatmatch already. So I've got used to how the display appears when one track is faster etc.
NdB
1:06 PM - 25 May, 2006
In fact, it might be worth popping a feature suggestion on 'tother forum - I've often thought it would be handy to be able to turn the waveform display off - especially for practice sessions. (unless someone's already suggested it. Time to hit the search methinks...)
This is where someone usually tells me it's been there all along and I just completely missed it.
(and no smart-arse comments about the monitor power switch please!!!)
This is where someone usually tells me it's been there all along and I just completely missed it.
(and no smart-arse comments about the monitor power switch please!!!)
punosion
1:16 PM - 25 May, 2006
Learning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
At least it gives you a start so you can listen to how fast two beats come together (and how fast a beatmatch can go wrong), how the phasing between competing bass beats sounds, etc...
Quote:
Quote:
my advice is to buy two identical vinyls (real vinyls) and practice matching with themLearning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
At least it gives you a start so you can listen to how fast two beats come together (and how fast a beatmatch can go wrong), how the phasing between competing bass beats sounds, etc...
punosion
1:18 PM - 25 May, 2006
This is where someone usually tells me it's been there all along and I just completely missed it.
(and no smart-arse comments about the monitor power switch please!!!)
Oh, and IIRC, Serato mentioned in one of the Feature Suggestions posts that they're going to make some sort of accomidation to turn parts of the display off...
Quote:
In fact, it might be worth popping a feature suggestion on 'tother forum - I've often thought it would be handy to be able to turn the waveform display off - especially for practice sessions. (unless someone's already suggested it. Time to hit the search methinks...)This is where someone usually tells me it's been there all along and I just completely missed it.
(and no smart-arse comments about the monitor power switch please!!!)
Oh, and IIRC, Serato mentioned in one of the Feature Suggestions posts that they're going to make some sort of accomidation to turn parts of the display off...
djxatl
4:20 PM - 25 May, 2006
Learning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
Personally I don't think you could learn to beat match just using the SSL display. I can do it now but I think I've only learned that as a result of being able to beatmatch already. So I've got used to how the display appears when one track is faster etc.
in my opinion theres no point in having 2 different tracks pitched to the same bpm if you cant line them up
Quote:
Quote:
my advice is to buy two identical vinyls (real vinyls) and practice matching with themLearning to beatmatch with identical vinyls makes no sense. If you set one to +5% the other will need to be at +5% to match.
Personally I don't think you could learn to beat match just using the SSL display. I can do it now but I think I've only learned that as a result of being able to beatmatch already. So I've got used to how the display appears when one track is faster etc.
in my opinion theres no point in having 2 different tracks pitched to the same bpm if you cant line them up
DJ Flawless
5:33 PM - 25 May, 2006
i learned how to dj on ssl
i learned to beat match ,scratch. and all that other stuff
but...
u give me regular vynil and i can beat match but it takes a <b> Little<b> longer but it is do able
just my input
i learned to beat match ,scratch. and all that other stuff
but...
u give me regular vynil and i can beat match but it takes a <b> Little<b> longer but it is do able
just my input
djzoo
7:20 PM - 25 May, 2006
no doubt, learn by ear first! don't even use SSL for like a couple of weeks(yeah right, the temptation is too much)except to build overviews and crates. then when you think you have it, practice more because you probably don't! record yourself and listen to all the mistakes, then use SSL when your ready. don't get me wrong, get SSL ASAP, but learn the hard way before the easy(lazy)way.
Vince
7:25 PM - 25 May, 2006
Hey B-random...
I know how tempting it is to look at the visuals on SSL, but I wouldn't start to beatmatch like that. Go and get 2 records (maybe from the same producer, this means the beats are built up similar) and play arround with them. I would start with the instrumental version, the lyrics can be a littel anoing ;) Even when I am on a gig I first beatmatch the instrumentals and then go to the Main Track.
I hope this helps you =)
I know how tempting it is to look at the visuals on SSL, but I wouldn't start to beatmatch like that. Go and get 2 records (maybe from the same producer, this means the beats are built up similar) and play arround with them. I would start with the instrumental version, the lyrics can be a littel anoing ;) Even when I am on a gig I first beatmatch the instrumentals and then go to the Main Track.
I hope this helps you =)
Melissa
9:36 PM - 25 May, 2006
There is no doubt that looking at the wave foms will help you learn to beatmatch... Your learning curve will be much faster than without it...
For me, learning by ear, sometimes the hard part was knowing if I needed to speed up or slow down the record- with SSL that first hurtle is overcome...
I started out with dancehall and reggae 45's- mixing tracks on the same rythym by the same label (dub to dub, then dub to vocal)... then same riddim by different studios...
And practice... If I don't practice regularly... ouch, it hurts...
For me, learning by ear, sometimes the hard part was knowing if I needed to speed up or slow down the record- with SSL that first hurtle is overcome...
I started out with dancehall and reggae 45's- mixing tracks on the same rythym by the same label (dub to dub, then dub to vocal)... then same riddim by different studios...
And practice... If I don't practice regularly... ouch, it hurts...
punosion
9:58 PM - 25 May, 2006
I really agree with this--example, for my roommate, SSL has really helped him improve his beatmatching speed. He's someone who learned how to beatmatch entirely by ear, but he's just not as good and as quick as he should be...SSL is helping him get in that zone where he can work on fine-tuning the beatmatch...it gives him the confidence to do the big adjustments and get to the "meat" of the work, the fine-tuning that keeps you from riding the pitch fader in the mix.
Gotta' find a balance, though...if you start on SSL, get really comfortable, but don't try to move yourself away from SSL towards relying on your ears, you're going to be in a world of hurt if/when you run into a situation where you don't have it.
Quote:
There is no doubt that looking at the wave foms will help you learn to beatmatch... Your learning curve will be much faster than without it...I really agree with this--example, for my roommate, SSL has really helped him improve his beatmatching speed. He's someone who learned how to beatmatch entirely by ear, but he's just not as good and as quick as he should be...SSL is helping him get in that zone where he can work on fine-tuning the beatmatch...it gives him the confidence to do the big adjustments and get to the "meat" of the work, the fine-tuning that keeps you from riding the pitch fader in the mix.
Gotta' find a balance, though...if you start on SSL, get really comfortable, but don't try to move yourself away from SSL towards relying on your ears, you're going to be in a world of hurt if/when you run into a situation where you don't have it.
Dj KaGeN
10:57 PM - 25 May, 2006
I was jacked trying to get the beatmatch lights in sync on my first mixer, screwed me up for so long till I masked them with electrical tape. I'm thinkin a noob on SSL has many advantages that could speed up the process, you have great visulas and your ears, not to mention BPM's listed so you can get in the ballpark with song selection. Getting used to all the cool toys will make life tough if you try and ween yourself off the SSL - so you can play out on regular ole wax.
MusicMeister
2:16 AM - 26 May, 2006
I'd recommend watching the visuals and see how they compare to the music. I'd start with songs that are nearly the same BPM and start trying to match. Try to keep them matched as long as possible and work from there. Start with songs YOU ALREADY KNOW so you can find the breaks easily and know what to expect. The visuals are handy to give you a feel for when they are matching up but you have to LISTEN to what's happening. Don't rely only on your eyes to match the songs up. Once you get a feel for what's happening on the audio put tape on your monitor to cover up the visuals and start again.
I started on Pioneer CDJ's (please, no hassle, I'm moving to vinyl) and I'd start by playing a song on one and then using a small part of a track that was looped on the other and match them up. I'd even use the loop to stretch the track on the other player. Once you get the basic for beat matching down start working on getting the measures to match up (beat 1 happens together) and then try doing some mash ups using instrumentals from one song and vocals from another and keep the bpm matched for as long as possible BY HAND.
I generally recommend you start with something in the 80-100 bpm range like the Commodore's Brick House and move up the bpm range from there.
But others are much better at this and likely have a lot better advice...
I started on Pioneer CDJ's (please, no hassle, I'm moving to vinyl) and I'd start by playing a song on one and then using a small part of a track that was looped on the other and match them up. I'd even use the loop to stretch the track on the other player. Once you get the basic for beat matching down start working on getting the measures to match up (beat 1 happens together) and then try doing some mash ups using instrumentals from one song and vocals from another and keep the bpm matched for as long as possible BY HAND.
I generally recommend you start with something in the 80-100 bpm range like the Commodore's Brick House and move up the bpm range from there.
But others are much better at this and likely have a lot better advice...
DjThis
3:59 AM - 26 May, 2006
Use your ears ... and your <===dick=8
House music is sweet for learning..... But It took me about 1 year to really get it down.. A bit slow you might say, but now I still suck.... j/k..... Be patient....
Also, my scratching sucks big dick... Anyone interested in a Scratch session in Orange county??
House music is sweet for learning..... But It took me about 1 year to really get it down.. A bit slow you might say, but now I still suck.... j/k..... Be patient....
Also, my scratching sucks big dick... Anyone interested in a Scratch session in Orange county??
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
4:33 AM - 26 May, 2006
I started on Pioneer CDJ's (please, no hassle, I'm moving to vinyl) and I'd start by playing a song on one and then using a small part of a track that was looped on the other and match them up. I'd even use the loop to stretch the track on the other player. Once you get the basic for beat matching down start working on getting the measures to match up (beat 1 happens together) and then try doing some mash ups using instrumentals from one song and vocals from another and keep the bpm matched for as long as possible BY HAND.
I generally recommend you start with something in the 80-100 bpm range like the Commodore's Brick House and move up the bpm range from there.
But others are much better at this and likely have a lot better advice...
... good advice. I don't think "Brick House" is a good beginner's record. It was produced with a live drummer. Anything before a certain time of course used live drummers. Live drummers aren't as accurate as drum machines.
Also, the earlier drum machines weren't as accurate as the newer ones. MIDI has never been perfect, but miles ahead of live drummers in consistency.
"Pushing" and "pulling on the beat," along with slowing-down or speeding up during bridges or choruses for dramatic effect, whether by live drummer or by electronic means, can be a factor, too. So pay attention,and always stay with the record.
I'm a big b.p.m. hound. I've written some columns about it in New Power Magazine. BPM's are a huge deal in mixing.
Please be mindful that mixing is a much more advanced artform than you may have imagined.
Quote:
I'd recommend watching the visuals and see how they compare to the music. I'd start with songs that are nearly the same BPM and start trying to match. Try to keep them matched as long as possible and work from there. Start with songs YOU ALREADY KNOW so you can find the breaks easily and know what to expect. The visuals are handy to give you a feel for when they are matching up but you have to LISTEN to what's happening. Don't rely only on your eyes to match the songs up. Once you get a feel for what's happening on the audio put tape on your monitor to cover up the visuals and start again.I started on Pioneer CDJ's (please, no hassle, I'm moving to vinyl) and I'd start by playing a song on one and then using a small part of a track that was looped on the other and match them up. I'd even use the loop to stretch the track on the other player. Once you get the basic for beat matching down start working on getting the measures to match up (beat 1 happens together) and then try doing some mash ups using instrumentals from one song and vocals from another and keep the bpm matched for as long as possible BY HAND.
I generally recommend you start with something in the 80-100 bpm range like the Commodore's Brick House and move up the bpm range from there.
But others are much better at this and likely have a lot better advice...
... good advice. I don't think "Brick House" is a good beginner's record. It was produced with a live drummer. Anything before a certain time of course used live drummers. Live drummers aren't as accurate as drum machines.
Also, the earlier drum machines weren't as accurate as the newer ones. MIDI has never been perfect, but miles ahead of live drummers in consistency.
"Pushing" and "pulling on the beat," along with slowing-down or speeding up during bridges or choruses for dramatic effect, whether by live drummer or by electronic means, can be a factor, too. So pay attention,and always stay with the record.
I'm a big b.p.m. hound. I've written some columns about it in New Power Magazine. BPM's are a huge deal in mixing.
Please be mindful that mixing is a much more advanced artform than you may have imagined.
DJ Nevoc
6:48 PM - 26 May, 2006
^^^ BUMP all the above comments. As I've said before I dont use my headphones anymore to minimize my Hearing loss. But I still use my ears in when I spin.
Using SSL to Beatmatch is very fast and accurate, but Its only going to get you within 1% usually of on beat, then you have to track it with your eyes and fine tune the wav. After that when you bring it in, you have to know by listening what to do, speed up/slow down, within 1 beat of hearing it. or your gonna wreck it!
SSL for life!
Using SSL to Beatmatch is very fast and accurate, but Its only going to get you within 1% usually of on beat, then you have to track it with your eyes and fine tune the wav. After that when you bring it in, you have to know by listening what to do, speed up/slow down, within 1 beat of hearing it. or your gonna wreck it!
SSL for life!
punosion
9:29 PM - 26 May, 2006
Here's one thing I noticed after teaching two people how to beatmatch--newbies are afraid to make drastic changes to the pitch slider...even when they NEED to make HUGE changes to keep up, and they know it, they still bump on the slider a centimeter at a time. You gotta' eliminate as much "bad beatmatch" ground on the slider as you can to get in that range...the springy waveforms in the middle of the screen can greatly help out with that step.
Thundercat
10:11 PM - 26 May, 2006
^^That's a good one pun. Don't wate time easing the pitch slider in to range. Hurry up and get it close, then work it tight. If you have to, spend some time just listening to different tracks while working the snot out of the pitch slider. Get a feel for how much a track speeds up / slows down and how quickly & accurately the decks make the ajustments.
Dj KaGeN
12:18 AM - 28 May, 2006
I teach noobs to find the 1st beat of the new record to come in, and let go of that record on beat to the other. Then adjust the fader accordingly, quicly changing to keep within beat. Landing close to the beats eases the amount of use of fader control and they usually have this aspect grasp within an hour. Always pressing the fact that it is OK to be hands on, lift the needle back to 1st beat, have their hands on th erecord and move it bakc and forth to ready themselves to let go close to ON beat. Upon letting go I make them determine without adjusting if it needs a little more speed/less speed. Restart from 1st beat again - I get most folks beatmatching within in day. Damn - I needed this kind of help when I stared on cheapo belt drive all by myself. Seems so simple now - why did it take me 3 months??
Melissa
12:24 AM - 28 May, 2006
i'm so amazed by how many of you out there 'teach' people... i never had that luxury and i even had a dj boyfriend when i started- the only thing i learned from other djs was about the music, not mixing it...
Thundercat
1:02 AM - 28 May, 2006
Amen. Buying 1200's in '84 was a little steep for a 15 year old kid working as a bus boy for tip shares. =)
Quote:
I stared on cheapo belt drive all by myself. Seems so simple now - why did it take me 3 months??Amen. Buying 1200's in '84 was a little steep for a 15 year old kid working as a bus boy for tip shares. =)
MusicMeister
4:07 AM - 28 May, 2006
Sorry about the song recommend above (Brick House). Forgot that they used a live drummer for that song (doh!). Ok, to be honest, I'm old enough that I often forget that songs like that are 'old school' now... seems like only yesterday when that track first hit the streets....
But it is a good BPM range to start with.... just pick something more current... ;-)
But it is a good BPM range to start with.... just pick something more current... ;-)
joshua
4:18 AM - 28 May, 2006
beatmatching is hard, i've been djing for like 6 years and i still dont get it right everytime, it's different for every preson.
the best advice i can give anyone is rely on your ears, bpm counters on mixers are wack, they dont work right anyway, lining up the tracks in ssl is fine, but that's not 100 percent accurate anyway, sure use that as a guide, but dont rely on it.
your ears will always do you best..
Josh
the best advice i can give anyone is rely on your ears, bpm counters on mixers are wack, they dont work right anyway, lining up the tracks in ssl is fine, but that's not 100 percent accurate anyway, sure use that as a guide, but dont rely on it.
your ears will always do you best..
Josh
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
9:03 PM - 28 May, 2006
bump.. except for the "boyfriend" part. [LOL!] Most DJ's CAN'T mix, and most who can aren't very good. I'm sorry to sound "negative." I feel somewhat sorry for those just starting.
Quote:
i'm so amazed by how many of you out there 'teach' people... i never had that luxury and i even had a dj boyfriend when i started- the only thing i learned from other djs was about the music, not mixing it...bump.. except for the "boyfriend" part. [LOL!] Most DJ's CAN'T mix, and most who can aren't very good. I'm sorry to sound "negative." I feel somewhat sorry for those just starting.
Hot Mix BK
12:54 AM - 29 May, 2006
Did you know that in the early 70's mixers didn't have headphones, they read the grooves on the vinyl to know the changes in the record were coming???It's not anything that is learned overnight. Some DJ's CAN mix as THEY started mixing when there were no sequencers or drum machines. They mix BETTER than most because of the close attention to the syncopation of live drums in early dance music. You were happy when you heard the synthetic clap in a record, this meant most often the drummer played to a click...lol. Whether it was pitch control on belt driven turntables (small dial knob), or gauging minor drifting of the drummer by gentle pressure along the side of the platter, it TOOK TIME to beat match properly. It is a gradual process that TAKES TIME. Some people feel its NOT NECESSARY which in most cases the music is loud, the liquor is flowing, and close enough works. But, if in fact you want to perfect the art ...Listen to the music, learn the breaks, the dynamics (i.e. drum rolls, piano slides, vocal notes held long,) use them to excite your mix but even more use them as escapes out of the mix where you post up breaks to vocals. Know basic song structure, your 8's 16's and 32's. Practice mixing as you would scratching and you will be better than those who FEEL SORRY for you just starting out...
Do Yo Thang...
as long as they're dancin'!
hotmixBK
Do Yo Thang...
as long as they're dancin'!
hotmixBK
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
8:08 PM - 12 June, 2006
"Practice mixing as you would scratching and you will be better than those who FEEL SORRY for you just starting out..."
Um, yo've never heard me. I feel sorry for you for that comment, too. No, I wasn't hating on "Old-School" DJ's, either. You forgot to mention that mixers didn't have faders.
Um, yo've never heard me. I feel sorry for you for that comment, too. No, I wasn't hating on "Old-School" DJ's, either. You forgot to mention that mixers didn't have faders.
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
8:42 AM - 18 June, 2006
Do you have communication issues?
Quote:
i'm so amazed by how many of you out there 'teach' people... i never had that luxury and i even had a dj boyfriend when i started- the only thing i learned from other djs was about the music, not mixing it...Do you have communication issues?
sinjintek
4:12 AM - 21 June, 2006
sorry to have to say this, but that is a silly ass question. you're asking if we think you should learn to beatmatch from a visual display...
NO.
will it make you dependent? maybe, who knows until you try...for some it might, for you it might not. however, it's pretty obvious that matching beats isn't a visual process to begin with.
since i see everyone else is giving out pointers, i will too:
1. start with the simplest of beats, something 4/4 like house or trance (i suggest house honestly). no sense in using doubles, since they're going to be the same pitch already...no sense in using songs from the same producer.
2. DEFINITELY start off with two tracks of the same genre. less confusion with two tracks that were "meant" for each other.
3. you might also want to calculate the BPMs first to get an idea of how much pitch you'll be playing with (keep you from trying to pitchshift at 8% when the songs are only 4BPM different).
4. forget the headphones. you're not playing out, you have nothing to prove yet. all you need to focus on is hands, turntables, mixer. after you have a good idea of working the platters then don the headgear...cuz now you have to learn to tune your ears for two different sound sources (hint: one is really close to your ear...expect a slight delay from the loudspeaker).
5. don't expect to become superstar dj overnight...BUT, with a good solid week of practice i'd think you should be able to decently beatmatch anything (though it might not be as smooth as it could be). later you'll learn when and where your mixes should take place...that will take a little bit of time, and of course practice practice practice!
now, once you've got this down...i think you will find that the visual features of SSL to be a great reference tool. with it you'll be able to match the beats a bit quicker, and that will give you more time to do such things as properly set your gains, EQ, and find that perfect drop point (and who knows, maybe even give you an extra moment or two for some scratching!).
good luck kid
Quote:
I got my first set of turntables a little over a week ago and I have not really learned how to mix/beat-match yet. I'm getting SSL tommorrow and I'm wondering if I should just learn to mix using the SSL Beat Map or if I'd be better off just learning by ear. I wonder if SSL will just help me learn faster or if it will make it so I'm dependant on the visual display (which I don't want to happen). I want to learn the right way so I can beat-match without SSL also. What do you guys think?sorry to have to say this, but that is a silly ass question. you're asking if we think you should learn to beatmatch from a visual display...
NO.
will it make you dependent? maybe, who knows until you try...for some it might, for you it might not. however, it's pretty obvious that matching beats isn't a visual process to begin with.
since i see everyone else is giving out pointers, i will too:
1. start with the simplest of beats, something 4/4 like house or trance (i suggest house honestly). no sense in using doubles, since they're going to be the same pitch already...no sense in using songs from the same producer.
2. DEFINITELY start off with two tracks of the same genre. less confusion with two tracks that were "meant" for each other.
3. you might also want to calculate the BPMs first to get an idea of how much pitch you'll be playing with (keep you from trying to pitchshift at 8% when the songs are only 4BPM different).
4. forget the headphones. you're not playing out, you have nothing to prove yet. all you need to focus on is hands, turntables, mixer. after you have a good idea of working the platters then don the headgear...cuz now you have to learn to tune your ears for two different sound sources (hint: one is really close to your ear...expect a slight delay from the loudspeaker).
5. don't expect to become superstar dj overnight...BUT, with a good solid week of practice i'd think you should be able to decently beatmatch anything (though it might not be as smooth as it could be). later you'll learn when and where your mixes should take place...that will take a little bit of time, and of course practice practice practice!
now, once you've got this down...i think you will find that the visual features of SSL to be a great reference tool. with it you'll be able to match the beats a bit quicker, and that will give you more time to do such things as properly set your gains, EQ, and find that perfect drop point (and who knows, maybe even give you an extra moment or two for some scratching!).
good luck kid
sinjintek
4:25 AM - 21 June, 2006
oh, if no one has yet taken the time to explain the idea of pitch:
let's say you have a record that's 100BPM. at 1% pitch, the tempo of the track is now 101bpm....and at 5% it's now 105BPM.
or with a less "round" number, your record is 145BPM. at 1% pitch your track tempo will move to 146.45 BPM (145 + 1.45)...
so, with two records...record A is 125BPM and record B is 132BPM. the difference in tempo is 7BPM. To get record A to match the speed of record B you'll need to figure out how much pitch is required to gain that extra 7BPM of tempo:
1% of 125 = 1.25
7 divided by 1.25 = 5.6%
so (roughly speaking) you'll need to push the pitch of record A from 0% to 5.6%...now the tempo of track A should be close to the tempo of track B.
obviously you're not required to do all this math when you're mixing...but if you know your BPMs then you'll have a pretty good idea of where you'll need to be pitching to. it'll save you from sliding the pitch control all over the place (which will probably get you lost real quick). not to mention, it can keep you from pointlessly trying to mix two records that can't work together.
;)
let's say you have a record that's 100BPM. at 1% pitch, the tempo of the track is now 101bpm....and at 5% it's now 105BPM.
or with a less "round" number, your record is 145BPM. at 1% pitch your track tempo will move to 146.45 BPM (145 + 1.45)...
so, with two records...record A is 125BPM and record B is 132BPM. the difference in tempo is 7BPM. To get record A to match the speed of record B you'll need to figure out how much pitch is required to gain that extra 7BPM of tempo:
1% of 125 = 1.25
7 divided by 1.25 = 5.6%
so (roughly speaking) you'll need to push the pitch of record A from 0% to 5.6%...now the tempo of track A should be close to the tempo of track B.
obviously you're not required to do all this math when you're mixing...but if you know your BPMs then you'll have a pretty good idea of where you'll need to be pitching to. it'll save you from sliding the pitch control all over the place (which will probably get you lost real quick). not to mention, it can keep you from pointlessly trying to mix two records that can't work together.
;)
djxatl
4:58 AM - 21 June, 2006
also dont always trust the pitch markers on the turbtables, and dont assume two turntables have the exact same response, setting the slider to 6% will probably not get u exactly 6%
sinjintek
5:15 AM - 21 June, 2006
very true. no one should ever assume they know the specific pitch to set a record to, but it's still a good idea to know what area you should be in. how many frustrated noobs have you ever come across only to match his beats for him and find out he was off pitch by a mile?
DJLorrence
6:42 AM - 21 June, 2006
yeah, its usually REALLY off with very new DJ's. like totally off, not even close type shit.
hmmm....does +1+/- of the pitch equal one BPM?
hmmm....does +1+/- of the pitch equal one BPM?
DJLorrence
6:43 AM - 21 June, 2006
that is not a bad thing, it just that they're learning! hard work and long live and prosper!
Quote:
yeah, its usually REALLY off with very new DJ's. like totally off, not even close type shit.that is not a bad thing, it just that they're learning! hard work and long live and prosper!
DJ_Mike_Coquilla
10:59 AM - 21 June, 2006
nah, Use Tha Force Luke!
Quote:
I'm wondering if I should just learn to mix using the SSL Beat Map ... What do you guys think?nah, Use Tha Force Luke!
grrillatactics
9:39 PM - 23 June, 2006
I am by no means an expert on teaching others how to mix, but the advice I have given to one or two people has seemed to help them, so here goes:
1> Rather than start with house or trance, start with breaks, something simple like Florida-style breaks. I recommend this because house and trance have a heavy dependancy on the kick drum for their sound, and when learning to mix, it is easy to confuse which track is which kick. Also, depending on the producer or subgenre, some kicks seem to not stand so prominently in the track, which again makes it not the best drum to use for mixing in my opinion. Breaks tend to build around the snare, which I feel is a clearer, stronger drum sound.
2> Don't use your headphones when learning to beatmatch. It isn't like you are at a club with 500 people dependant on your mixing skills. You are at home. By not using your headphones, you can hear when you start a record how close you are releasing the track to the beat you are trying to mix into, and it is immediately obvious if the track you are playing is too slow or too fast. Adjust the pitch, pick up the needle on the tune you want to bring in, go back to the beginning, and try again. When you have the beat really, really close to the beat playing, then let it run and fine tune with the pitch slider. Again, since you are at home, don't worry about this being a quick process, and if the one tune runs out, just start it over and keep trying. Learning to mix takes a little time.
3> Watch other DJ's spin. Everybody does things differently, and so you can assimilate other people's tricks into your own reportoire. I have learned many a trick by watching DJ's of different genres than the ones I tend to play, as well as watching DJ's in my own preferred genres. D:raf from this board is a good example. He and I both play a lot of drum and bass, and I have spent a lot of time when I was early in that scene watching how he and other in the area build mixes. I took the things in his method that worked for me and incorporated that into my style.
4> Use tunes with simple drum intros. This is the best thing while learning to mix because the tune you are bringing in isn't full of clutter and extra noise.
I do think that the visual assist in the form of SSL waveforms will be bonus and a strong assist, but you can notice a difference in beats with your ears far faster than your eyes can notice the difference and connection of two moving waveforms on a small screen. Use the waveform as an assistant coach. It will help you learn, but is not the teacher that shows you how to play the game, just a teacher that helps you with a small part of the game.
Once you get to a point where you want to actually play, begin using the headphones, and try to put several songs together, kind of in a mini-set, and work on just being able to go from one song to the next before the playing song runs out, and from there, build into having timing, so that 1 beats land together, and so on and so forth. Each step builds on the previous one. Once you get a vibe for the beat patterns, {i.e., most EDM genres are built into 4 measure (4 bar) or multiple of 4 measur structures [in other words, every 4 measures, a new sound is incorporated into the track, or a sound comes out at the 4 bar point]}, then you can delve into mixing with a focus on the song structures, so as one section ends in one song, something builds in the other, etc. Hip hop is similar as well, but is built around the verse, which is often 16 or 32 bars (again, a multiple of 4) and a chorus that is usually 4 or 8 bars, so in this case, you have to pay attention to what the lyrics are doing.
Once you feel confident enough to put some songs together and feel that they have some kind of flow, start recording yourself and listening for what you do that you feel could be improved upon. No matter who you are, there are new things that you can learn to make your sound even better. A DJ that thinks he/she knows all that there is to know is a DJ that is about one step away from being overrun.I've been at this for almost a decade, and there are others on this forum that have been at it 15, 20, and some almost 30 years, and while I can't speak for everyone, I am fairly confidant that most of us are still trying to get better. One of the fastest ways to get better is to know what you are doing from an outside perspective. Record every time you fire up your turnatbles, and give it a listen whenever you have some spare time.
Most importantly, have fun, love the music, love learning, and enjoy the process. There are a lot of good people that are learning with you, just on different parts of the journey.
1> Rather than start with house or trance, start with breaks, something simple like Florida-style breaks. I recommend this because house and trance have a heavy dependancy on the kick drum for their sound, and when learning to mix, it is easy to confuse which track is which kick. Also, depending on the producer or subgenre, some kicks seem to not stand so prominently in the track, which again makes it not the best drum to use for mixing in my opinion. Breaks tend to build around the snare, which I feel is a clearer, stronger drum sound.
2> Don't use your headphones when learning to beatmatch. It isn't like you are at a club with 500 people dependant on your mixing skills. You are at home. By not using your headphones, you can hear when you start a record how close you are releasing the track to the beat you are trying to mix into, and it is immediately obvious if the track you are playing is too slow or too fast. Adjust the pitch, pick up the needle on the tune you want to bring in, go back to the beginning, and try again. When you have the beat really, really close to the beat playing, then let it run and fine tune with the pitch slider. Again, since you are at home, don't worry about this being a quick process, and if the one tune runs out, just start it over and keep trying. Learning to mix takes a little time.
3> Watch other DJ's spin. Everybody does things differently, and so you can assimilate other people's tricks into your own reportoire. I have learned many a trick by watching DJ's of different genres than the ones I tend to play, as well as watching DJ's in my own preferred genres. D:raf from this board is a good example. He and I both play a lot of drum and bass, and I have spent a lot of time when I was early in that scene watching how he and other in the area build mixes. I took the things in his method that worked for me and incorporated that into my style.
4> Use tunes with simple drum intros. This is the best thing while learning to mix because the tune you are bringing in isn't full of clutter and extra noise.
I do think that the visual assist in the form of SSL waveforms will be bonus and a strong assist, but you can notice a difference in beats with your ears far faster than your eyes can notice the difference and connection of two moving waveforms on a small screen. Use the waveform as an assistant coach. It will help you learn, but is not the teacher that shows you how to play the game, just a teacher that helps you with a small part of the game.
Once you get to a point where you want to actually play, begin using the headphones, and try to put several songs together, kind of in a mini-set, and work on just being able to go from one song to the next before the playing song runs out, and from there, build into having timing, so that 1 beats land together, and so on and so forth. Each step builds on the previous one. Once you get a vibe for the beat patterns, {i.e., most EDM genres are built into 4 measure (4 bar) or multiple of 4 measur structures [in other words, every 4 measures, a new sound is incorporated into the track, or a sound comes out at the 4 bar point]}, then you can delve into mixing with a focus on the song structures, so as one section ends in one song, something builds in the other, etc. Hip hop is similar as well, but is built around the verse, which is often 16 or 32 bars (again, a multiple of 4) and a chorus that is usually 4 or 8 bars, so in this case, you have to pay attention to what the lyrics are doing.
Once you feel confident enough to put some songs together and feel that they have some kind of flow, start recording yourself and listening for what you do that you feel could be improved upon. No matter who you are, there are new things that you can learn to make your sound even better. A DJ that thinks he/she knows all that there is to know is a DJ that is about one step away from being overrun.I've been at this for almost a decade, and there are others on this forum that have been at it 15, 20, and some almost 30 years, and while I can't speak for everyone, I am fairly confidant that most of us are still trying to get better. One of the fastest ways to get better is to know what you are doing from an outside perspective. Record every time you fire up your turnatbles, and give it a listen whenever you have some spare time.
Most importantly, have fun, love the music, love learning, and enjoy the process. There are a lot of good people that are learning with you, just on different parts of the journey.
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
5:33 PM - 24 June, 2006
The advice so far has been pretty good, even though some people tend to not read other peoples' comments and repeat. Don't make me unleash the power of "nik" on you!
Melissa
6:21 PM - 24 June, 2006
Do you have communication issues?
No... the philophy was- let your ears teach you and from this particular dj- don't stress the mixing, focus on the music...
Quote:
Quote:
i'm so amazed by how many of you out there 'teach' people... i never had that luxury and i even had a dj boyfriend when i started- the only thing i learned from other djs was about the music, not mixing it...Do you have communication issues?
No... the philophy was- let your ears teach you and from this particular dj- don't stress the mixing, focus on the music...
Clark @ Breakin-Records.com
5:56 PM - 26 June, 2006
Do you have communication issues?
No... the philophy was- let your ears teach you and from this particular dj- don't stress the mixing, focus on the music...
"... jokes and jokes and jokes and jokes."
--Dave Chappelle
"I kid; I kid; I kid!"
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i'm so amazed by how many of you out there 'teach' people... i never had that luxury and i even had a dj boyfriend when i started- the only thing i learned from other djs was about the music, not mixing it...Do you have communication issues?
No... the philophy was- let your ears teach you and from this particular dj- don't stress the mixing, focus on the music...
"... jokes and jokes and jokes and jokes."
--Dave Chappelle
"I kid; I kid; I kid!"
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