ritchie hawtin uses auto-sync on traktor with 4 decks running and does some mad creative stuff. are you saying we shouldn't be allowed to do this on serato? sorry, but beatmatching is a practical element of djing, not its creative heart. i enjoy beatmatching but would welcome more creative features that sidelined the beatmatching

tublet get real, how the hell are you going to keep the sampler 3rd deck in time when you can only have 2 turntables connected, autosync has to happen, sick of this crap DJs are spinning

With turntables and "real" records there's no:

cuepoints,
looping,
loop-roll,
auto-gain,
auto-detect of BPM,
auto-looping,
key-lock,
multicolored waveforms,
unlimited doubles,
instant doubles,
ability to archive/back up your entire collection effortlessly.

(did I leave anything out? probably.)

To keep the "vinyl emulation" totally pure, SSL would have to:

slightly degrade the sound quality of files every time they're played,
impart "cue-burn" into the sound of files at the normal cue/scratch points,
only allow "doubles" if you have purchased more than one copy of the song,
remove all the features I mentioned above.

Just throwing that out there to highlight the ridiculousness of any "keeping it real" argument.

And I partly direct this at myself, because I also take a very dim view of DJ's who can't mix and depend on software features to make up for their lack of skill. (And that's not just about "Sync", either).

But that ship has sailed, years ago.

And it's always worth a mention in this kind of discussion:

The (largely unionized) musicians who used to provide the entertainment for dancers in nightclubs before the "DJ" appeared as mostly a union-busting thing in the 1960's/70's had plenty of "keeping it real" type issues about the DJ's who helped kill their livelihood.

And a parting late-night brain-fart that may be relevant:

Could it be that the lack of paying work for entry-level musicians in the last 30-odd years is part of why the quality of pop music has steadily degraded over that same time? Because now the people who formerly might have worked as musicians now become DJ's, with little-to-no musical training required?

no sync please. and also lets have the option to remove waveform beatmatching. this will get the focus back on djing and stop serato djs constantly starring at the screen. come on, we're all guilty of it, remove the temptation!

no sync please. Add if you need it so bad just go to the other djing software and sell your SSL.

I don't 2 like it but, 2 be honest 'Auto-sync feature' is inevitable.
hmm, will it work in abs?

if Auto-sync is added i see trouble 4 other software with the feature already!

Yes! i believe there are other things we can do than one another in djing not just beatmatching! i mean How u compile,how versatile,speed like mixing 10 tracks in 5-7 mins. just 2 cut it short.

i remember i have said it b4 that what matter is d result we are able 2 give 2 audience as they would not much concern (not much i say) about what we use.



Digital world! No need 2 pretend!

although right now im usin' serato w cdj in abs mode as rel mode is making d scratch mode un-useful & no drop 2 cue point but beatmatchin' ok.



But if auto-sync is added i'll find a way 2 make da best out of it.

auto sync would be a great idea main reasons is speed to throw loops in

I must admit I'm very impressed with what today's DJs can do.
They wouldn't be able to do a fraction of that stuff "back in the day"
To this day I CAN'T
BUT...
I would like to know the skill in autosyncing 2, 4 or 6 sources. no fun

These new DJ Wanna Bees would rather be lazy and skip through the art of DJing and go straight to giving the appearance of knowing WTF they're doing, but they don't.

WOW he sure is fast on a skip proof CD player
Incredible! he can mix seamlessly...blindfolded
(with that cool program he BOUGHT)
Don't buy your skills junior....PRACTICE

I love it when DJs **cough** walk up to my rig and see I'm using 1200s.
I've heard everything from "This is real sh!t here" to "Old School"
To see a DJ use TTs is true art ladies and gents.

I DO catch myself using waveforms to help mix once in a while, but then I snap out of it and get to business at hand. For those of you who didn't know. Vynil DJs would look closely at a record to find the change pattern of grooves in order to find break beats, Instrumentals, chorus, etc. That is lost with control vynil. I now see it a wave form and PICK UP THE NEEDLE and drop it on the right spot!

Too much to talk about here. Some of you new guys have some serious skills.
Love it...keep real DJing alive.
For the rest of you, stick to popping pimples in the mirror, and "DJing" Weddings with your Iphone.

I gotta JAM to go to...And the crowd is waiting for a true PERFORMANCE

NO to AutoSync

Who goes to gigs and marvels at the DJs beatmatching skills? Get over yourself.

I initialy bought SSL because I like mixing with decks, I'm starting to think autosync would be a great feature, seeing as I'm mostly concerned with the resultant mix, not the mixing itself. SSL has allowed me to do new things I'd never have thought of before, and to be honest, the whole beatmatching thing suddenly became a chore as I'd rather be spending the time doing something else.

I have a good solution for the DJ snobs though, a new version of SSL, with all new tech stripped out, leaving just the library and virtual decks, with packaging and stickers "Mixed without auto sync" or similar, so they could stick it on their laptops to let people know they're for real.

If it's a chore to do something as simple as beatmatching, perhaps you can take up something else like dishwashing. Oops! my bad. You'd have to match the plates you're stacking. What to do, What to do??

If the crowd Isn't what you call "marveling" over a DJ's abilities, then (s)he's not doing a good enough job. In other words...You SUCK! I mentioned other DJs, not the crowd itself.

In my earlier post I praise today's DJ. Using tools and toys some of us didn't have in the past. You guys and gals sound great, and you know who you are. Because of all these new tech devices, SSL provides some welcomed features that are NEEDED to help with the experience.

BUT PLEASE UNDERSTAND...Many WILL NOT learn how to mix a simple House Beat.
In MY OPINION, you are not a DJ if you can't do something as EZ as mixing two identical beats...and you want Auto-Stink to run 4 DECKS??? BULLSH!T...Buy a set of Oompa Loompas

Go ahead and print the label, I'll slap it on my laptop. Right next to the Dinosaur sticker.
But what will yours say?...suggestions anyone?

NO to Auto-Stink

You miss the point, why do we need to bother? It's essential a simple task that can be automated, butyou seem mostly upset that new DJs will no longer have to bother learning to beatmatch, who cares?



This is the point I'm trying to make, being a good at matching beats doesn't necesarily make a good DJ, and a good DJ doesn't have to be able to match beats, it's all about what you play, auto sync won't make any difference to that, like it or not.

I CARE! And YES good beatmatching is part of what makes a GOOD DJ. How could you NOT agree? If it wasn't important you wouldn't want SSL to do it for you. If it is too difficult for you or any other to achieve, then simply take a little more time in your practice and learn...Have someone help, there is no shame in admitting your weaknesses!

What's next?...automated scratch and release on time? (OMG...I think a light bulb lit up over someone's head). In time, if you have ANY kind of skill, you will be as upset as I am because someone without a fraction of your ability will be able to do what YOU can with a push of a button or something easier like wishing it into the program.



You have GOT to be new to this...So many readers with see your post and ask themselves where TF is this guy from?
Being good at Beatmatching is the start of a great DJ. And a seasoned professional DOES know how to match a beat. It's not just about what you play, It's also about how you play it...You sir, judging by your previous post, are WAY OFF and obviously a bit lower on experience than others in this forum!

like it, or not

NO to Auto-Stink!

While I don't want to get into a debate about who can dj best, I can beatmatch, most DJs can. I just don't see the point you're making, we can beatmatch, woohoo!

I'm well aware that it can be a little insulting that people no longer have to learn quite as hard, but I don't see the point in burying your head in the sand and being upset that a computer can automate a basic skill of DJing, might as well embrace it and see what else you can do with the time saved.

To not include auto sync would only hold SSL back, you don't have to use it, but this petition seems to be rather futile, it's not going to stop anyone switching to other software that does have beatmatching, you'd be better of organising a union and stopping clubs and pubs from using anyone but union sanctioned DJs.


I mean DJs in general, not just top club DJs, a DJ with a good selection of music can get away with a lot. And yes, it is how you play it and mix it together, but it's a little more than just getting the beats to match isn't it?

This is not a debate on who's best

With all the features that SSL provides...quote,


All the above mentioned has very little to no reflection of the ability of the DJ and his basic skill.
I don't like to just One of the reasons I went with SSL is because it DIDN'T have Auto-Stink. It's corny, period.

It might be inevitable, but I really hope Auto-Stink isn't added.
Like a 1200, it's the industry standard. and like the MK very little has been done to improve upon it because it doesn't need it.

We, as SSL users, consider ourselves better than tne people who use other proggies that are out there. One big reason is because it's not loaded with a whole bunch of crap that make the program less stable. It's bare bones, with great organizational features and tools to IMPROVE a skill, not automate it. Leaving a good DJ to rely on his ability to spin, not mouse-click.

I'll read on .. I doubt we'll ever fully agree but it was good discussing this with you. You brought up some good points. Take care SC

i've been around for 17 years and have been using all the different technologies as they appear, from original lp's bought from record pools and local music stores to todays latest gear.

these aguments have bene posted over and over with the same results. anyone bitching about new technology has to 'get real' themselves cause they are already using new tech that was never part of the original art of djing. the only thing that has changed is what is expected of the dj (their role as an enterainer). that is neer going to change, the role of a dj will evolve as new tech comes out.

for all thse that want to fight it and bitvh and complain, PLEASE DO, cause while you're throwing a temper tanttrum, you're opening spots for those of us who realize the gig is not always about US, but rather the paying customers. give them what they want, or find a new job.

plain and simple. please keeep complaining and hand your job over to someone who still wants to learn.

what dj's do today is quite a bit different than dj's did with 2 turntabels, original pressed records that couldn't keep a consistant tempo and a shitty board. what dj's do tomorrow will be that much different than today, so get used to it and man up....or give up.

you got 2 choices...

1.keep trying to be the best at what everyone else is doing. watch videos, listen to mixes of other dj's and aspire to be good as them, play shity local gigs and make a couple/few hundred bucks twice a week. or...

2. keep up with technology. be create as an artist and do things with it that everyon else ISN'T doing. get paid, travel & be an individual that other dj's watch out for.

it's gonna happen, it does more and more often as digital techology makes changes easier and cheaper to develope.

it's absolutely fucking rediculous that these cdj/serato djs call the new guys 'microwave' djs cause to be bluntly honest here. SO ARE YOU! in fact anyone using anything more than the original equipment when club djing became mainsteam entertainment in a microwave dj in eyes of someone who started before you.

please, please keep complaining and the rest of us will laugh our way all the way to the bank. it's not going to take any less talent to operate new systems...its just depends on what you do with them. and if you can't see the possibilities of what can be done with new equipment, then you're just a wanna be immitator anyways.

sounds harsh, but it's meant to be harsh to those 'know it all' dj's talking shit. treats others how you wish to be treated.

some (alot) of venues expect a certain type of performance from djs, i know of many clubs where laptop users whould get mocked or thrown off stage. i know of clubs where scratch live is cool, but other software programs arent and i know of clubs where anything goes as long as the crowd is having fun and their is talent behind the mixer.

get over your selves.

in fact the more i read the serato forums and the narrowminded attitudes of so many 'know it all' djs, the more i'm inclined to think of this turning into less of the overwhelming industry standard i was hoping it would become. it's starting to take a nose dive with the splitting up of software. itch vs scratch/video. the addition of numarks controller with itch seems like a good idea, but it was done as a really good 'toy', it isnt up to par for seversl seemingly small reasons and does not include al the functionality that SSL offers..so now they are offerning 2 different product, problem is instead of creating a new mind blowing standard, they created a less powerful 'toy' of sorts.

the main serato software seems to refuse to remain a leader with what is going to become the new controller standards. so scratch is turning into something 'last year'.

i just don't get how/where the attitudes come from around here.

ever notice you don't see many top name djs posting here unless they are under alias? the level of 'know it all' ameteurs is embarrasing and i think ruining the professionalism of these forums.

and don't get me wrong, i'm not claiming to be anythign more than i am. i know where i stand and what i want to get out of this career and what the peak will realistically be. no self absorbtion here, just an openminded realist.

those who fight whats coming are just pigion holing themselves into a smaller and smaller demographics. remember guys, its all about supply and demand. the more you bitch, the smaller the supply will be for the upcomming demand. so please keep doing what your doing and let us continue to get paid

I do not agree with anything you say and have one word against your whole argument

1200

1200 is the base of my argument , lol. point is, those thesed ay susing the 1200 with any effects machine, or any software would be considered a /microwave' dj by those who used 1200's before any technology got involved

so people using todays tech (even with 1200's), are no diferent than those who want beat sync options...ita just another technologic option like electronic looping is.

back in the day...you know how i looped? 2 records of the same song...start record B 1st chorus at the beginning of the 2nd or 3rd chorus on record A. in other words everythgn back then was manual...then looping came out on denon cd players and has just evolved from there.

thats just 1 example. point is, how many of these techno pearks of new gear are just considered normal these days? pretty much everything. in fact there are a million things you can do now live that just wasnt possible before. so why do people hate on those who embrace whats up n' coming? cause essentially...they are already using new fangled technology themselves that true old school dj's would frown upon.

at the end of the day, the new djs are just expected to dj differently than the old ones. a dj in the 70's dj'd differently than those in the 80's..90's...millinium and nowadays. and so will the dj's 1 or 2 years from now.

i wouldnt say todays dj's are any less talented than those of the 70's, or dj's of tomorrow are not going to have to be as talented of rodays djs. there talents will just be of a different nature.

get it now?

where many clubs expect a dj to come in these days to play on tech 12's, do a few fancy tricks that are based on turntablism...some dj's of the soon to be furture might be expected to create remixes on the fly (not mashups and not how we recognize live remixing today), they may be expected to produce live on stage in way that were only possible in the studio today. that sir(s) is gonan require talent and a beat sync option will just be expected, cause without it it would be impossible to do what they do...in the same way, it is impossible to do what scratchlive djs of today do that someone with 2x tech 12s and a shitty board could do in 1975.

..but whatever, there really is no point in arguing it or trying to make a point to the haters cause in reality, while that 'moment in dj history', as that 'style' of djing slowly slips into the past and that market decreases in size...the djs of tomorrow who embrace the new technology will fill the job positions of the new demand that the so called old skool haters are too proud to work

kinda like the old hard core disco djs from the 70s snubbed their noses at cd players. think i've seen a few of them around my town working day jobs they hate for next to nothing :)

talk about "hate" - geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz-uuuusssssss-†

the 1200, 30 years strong. It survives 'the death of vinyl', it survives the cdj, it survives the laptop, it survives the ipod, it survives the little rotary midi boxes.. etc.

It did not need any updating to do this. no cd drive hacked in the side, no usb firewire plugs on the back, no midi buttons, no blinking lights, no ipod dock.. etc.

SSL is like the 1200, in fact it was built to be the perfect companion to the 1200, notice the logo.

It doesnt make any sense to try and bloat SSL with every single type of button you can think of just because its 'new'.

Just because someone doesnt think such and such belongs in SSL does not mean they believe it should not be in some other program, that it should be illegal, or hated.

I for one think all these new types of features should be explored, all the ones listed in this thread and however many more, just not in SSL.

There are better platforms for therese things, ITCH is one of them.


No one is scared of new technology, thats a phony argument. And no one is hating on DJs who want to use it (well not me). The issue is filling SSL with these things when there are plenty of other solutions, including on from Serato.

+ 1,000,000 on NOT having auto-sync.

Damn, the sampler is a SAMPLER! Haha. If you wanna mix tracks with it then by all means do it BIG guys, but it IS a sampler not 6 extra decks. Auto-sync is a preference of CD/program DJ's. Hey, just set it up on auto-mix & auto-sync and go dance with the ladies while turntablists are tearing up the market with live stage shows like always.

Whoo-hoo! I have way more fun with my toys! Not to have my toys play with themselves. Lol.

I'm on for the petition of no auto-sync. LMFAO

no auto sync!!!!!!!

It will drop this software to true microwave levels, lol

we are mixers/dj's for a reason, if we aren't "mixing" the tracks and the software is doing it for us, then we might as well just be called song selectors!!! can you imagine watching a dj drop a song on his left deck and not even touching the pitch? .... kind of makes me sad.

Hey ZOnk...I think youre a lil lost in your own convo...I know I was.

Not too much hatin' goin' on around here for the DJs using various equipment (except maybe the IPhone DJ tee-hee.)

Some like to spend 1000s every couple of years when a new CD player or sampler hits the market. GOOD! More Power to them. The thread is about Auto-Stink. I don't like it, many others don't like it...while others do. That's the purpose of a FORUM. Top name DJs had their opinions when they joined the forum long ago and bounced. Nothing wrong with that.

Now...I love my 12s...like most owners do. and I LOVE to buss my boy's balls (who are now CDJs) about how they turned into CD b!tches while I return with my MKs and either equal or outperform them...It's all part of a DJ's day. I don't think anyone here leaves this forum convinced that they are a lesser DJ because of what someone else types.

SSL is not losing a penny for leaving Auto-Stink out...If they did, it would have been implemented LONG AGO.

NOOOO to Auto-Stink !!

NOOOOOO TO AUTO_SYNC! Please No No NO! if your laptop crashes cna you pull out some true vinyl mix them till you fix your issue? I can and so can my whole crew. think about it. we have tools to help us but not do the work for us! keep it real and fresh! i hope rane doesnt put it in! just thoughts.

"auto-stink" zesh? haha. i like that. Noooooooo auto-stink please. I have my own stink i'm dealing with right now that i just let out. lol

todays dj's replaced creating many effects and tricks manually with a digital alternative and instead prefer to use their time on performing other tricks that were previously only possible in a studio. right? whats the difference?

just cause a program offers certain functions, doesn't mean you ned to use them. and i agree to the counter as well...there are other programs that offer this, those who want it dont have to use serato.

its a choise that seraro needs to make or people need to accept. serato can either keep on top of the latest trends, or they can always focus on a very specific demographic

for the record, i'm not a beat sync fan either...im just open minded enough to see the big picture.

a friend of mine once told me serato was like taking two steps forward and one step back at the same time. he doesnt use any beat sync functions, but about 3-4 years ago he was a complete unkown and now sells out event venues of 5000 around the world. he did it cause he uses the latest technology to create a different experience than most djs who try to be better at doing the same thing as the next guy. people go to see his show, regardless of venue. THATS a true artist. he has achieved what most djs dream of, not by being the best turntablist or whatever, but by embracing what was available and not following the crowd.

my style is similar to most on these boards, i personally hate beat sync. but i also hate all the digital technology that enhances a performance. if i had my ways, we'd all be expected to use 12's with a couple original pressed copies of each album and create our own effects/remixes etc. things change. you either have to go with it, or pigeonhole yourself into a decreasing market. even though i don't care for it, i still use it cause thats what's expected now of a dj. i don't make a fortune, just enough to make a living. aside from about 2 dead months a year i constantly travel the world and make about 5-8k a month with expenses paid most of the time.

maybe thats chump change and a boring lifestyle to all these techno haters here. maybe im just beating my head on the wall and coming across as a n00b who knows nothing.

but for what it's worth, the only reason i'm still making a small living from this gig 17 years later is cause while all my friends got pissed off that dennon released a dual cd player with pitch bend and quit for shitty day jobs they hate cause 'dj's aren't dj's anymore' - is cause i decided to bite the bullet and use the damn cd player, and i even decided to use the damn digital loop function that came with newer models.

funny how that worked out. they can call me a sell out or whatever they want, but at least i'm still doing what i love and not mopping floors at the local mall at 3am.

ok..anyways, im done trying to make a point. look at the big picture, things change.

the point that you are missing is that some people apposed to it, DO NOT have a problem with it being done - in other programs even from Serato - like ITCH

It does not make sense to put every single feature in every single software. you have to draw lines between softwares

I understand your point .... but ....



I agree with this more.

no auto sync ever please. i'm all for this, i know its not the most important part of being a dj but its high as hell on the list. learn your craft, master it, then get as creative as you want.

This is a good discussion! I'm going to move this to DJ discussion for those that don't check the features area too often....

if you don't like autosync then don't use it if it is ever implemented. simple as that. or stick with a version of ssl that doesn't have it.

all this whining sounds like sibling rivalry. getting mad at someone else because they didn't 'have to learn the hard way' like you did. well suck it up and step up your game. if you're losing gigs because some kid on traktor/ableton throws down a much more exciting set that's your fault not his.

i know i'd appreciate it. beatmatching only takes a few seconds as it is with ssl right now, but it would be nice to autosync/loop breaks/acapellas/whatever on a third or fourth deck while you're mixing proper on your two 1200s.

i think the furture of djs lies much more in the area of their ability to create pleasing sounds and an entertaining experience more so than the past where it seemed to be almost equally important or more to show off technically.

its not going to be about who is able to continually keep 2 minute mixes going on all 4 tables all night long in addition to dropping samples & effects ect. i see it turning into a live production of sorts. THAT is something that can't just be taught and expected to pick up in a couple hours. the entertainer is going to have to create unique sounds and people will once again flock to the dj rather than the venue.

the excitment 'going out to the club' is not not what it used to be, the industry is slowing down year after year and venues seem to be closing thier doors without reopening at all more often. the patrons go out later and spend less money. all in all the equation for a viable business is becomming less and less attractive and less exciting to potential new owners.

my honest opinion on the future longevity of a dj's career is going to be their ability to adapt and create a following - even on local levels now. ans that following is going to be based on a combination of what it takes today as well as becomming a 'writer' of sorts. bot only are you going to be expected to 'write' new music on the fly, but you're gonna be expected to play the instrument yourselves. djs are going to have to take on another role and i believe the only reason to fight it is because of personal insecurities.

it will mean alot of todays djs who do not have as high level of musical writing talent the same way a guitar player in a local original band does than the other local djs, will find themselves in a very quickly depleating market and eventually jobless...or at least forced to make djing their 'hobby job'.

so thats why i get so amped when people already using technology freak out and bitch how additional technology is going to take the talent or art out of it. thing is , they already are microwave djs in some persons eye. their problem is they just got used to doing it a certain way and aren't thinking outside the bun. they became pretty good at doing it 'this way'...but unfortunately, that way of doing it is just a snapshop of what the definition of a dj is/was over the years. i've heard the same arguments over and over, over the years.

if serato wants to keep scratch as an assisted turntabist product, then great. but one of their products needs to include it all and do itt all, even wash the dishes....cause right now there are other companies already doing that and unfortunately for this board....those companies are starting to gain ground.

what i really don't understand though is...scratch already has 2 mainly used modes. one is pure and pretty much doesn't do more except allow you to leave your milk crates at home (but still allows for incredibly fast song changes) and the other mode with a bunch of electronic 'do it for you' features.....no different than beat sync. so whats the difference if they add beat sync? just don't use it if you don't like it OR use ABS mode, cause really using all the bells and whistles of \rel isn't being much of a turntablist either...lol. it's actually cheating in a big way.

if your game relies so much on proving you can match a beat...thats pretty narrow. thats such a small part of the big picture, it's somethign that after a while is not even an issue but more of a nuisance. i personally like ot do it manually cause its fun....but if that option came out, i'd just spen the time and energy i used on matching beats on somethign else that other djs can't do or are at least doing it drasticallly differntly.

bla bla, here we go same argument over and over. anyways. point ive been makign over and over is...things change. people using laptops are already microwave djs, so whats the big deal about one or two added features here and there that cahnge what is expected of the position? like i said being good at what tools are available to us at this moment in time, is just a blink of the eye in the djs career. use the knowledge you have of knowing the basics and turn it into something amazing new guys joining the game won't be able to do...then your on top of your technical mixing game...at least locally.

the next step is not a certain feature here or there...it's gonna be about becoming more of a musician, playing an instrument and not only writing your own music....but writing it on the fly as the moment sees fit. thats the little details that going to seperate the top djs from the struggling ones in the near future.

it's already started to happen. there is nothing wrong with wanting to continue on the path you've already started but be aware that the rest of the industry will not hold themselves back. if you don't like the new feature, then don't use them, plain and simple.

believe me...most people, including the ones who are buying tickets have absolutely no idea or even care what software you are using or what it can do...they only care about the experience in general.

i understand the not wanting the new features for a certian product line thing...and thats where the developers have to decide. someone said \itch is the latest and greatest add all features product...but its not. to my knowledge itch doesnt do video, so right now they have 2 mixed products competing with eachother while neither really does it all. the problem is, there are a few other options on the market that does do it all and now they are learnign from serato and starting to become just as good.

k, anyways. im done on this post. points have been made and there will always be views of others who have a hard line opinion on it. there will never be a complete compromise. im just giving those who are on the fence or uneducated about why this is such a hot argumentative topic that pops up every week or so, the left-wing liberated opinion, from someone whos seen trends come and go...and seen what happens to djs who don't morph or 'sell out' to what the market demands. they still are known to their audience, but that audience shinks as time passes.

some of us gave up and grew out of the dj changes phase, some of us are still living those days. it's all about what period of your career you're living in. peoples views of things, their lives, the world, everything change as they gain real life expereience - or wisdom. whats important to them changes cause they get bored of what they have been doing and life's demands evolve.

i don't care either way what serato does....the only thing i care about is knowing what product is going to do what in the future, so i can make purchases asccordingly. for example, the reason why i'm even on these damn boards lately is cause i needed a new laptop and wanted to see what i should buy. after reading the referrals for macs...i came close to buying one. instead i bought a top end windows laptop because it is very compatable with other dj softwares...unfortunately, i'm forced to keep my options open and am no longer making purchases based on serato leading the way in the future because of all these arguments on the boards. i just dunno what company is going to provide the solution the market is going to demand...and right now there are other options that are more accessable financially to a broader market.

i love scratch, but if they lack in features that will provide the experience that the person paying me wants, i'll have to consider any product that will. itch looks like the newest thing from serato....but it doesnt do video. i need to use the industry standard controllers, with all the features available by the competition and that includes video. hope serato decides to dedicate one of their sofeware lines to what the competition is doing. the serato brand is powerful and respected, but it still needs to provide funtionality of what the market will call for in the near future

holy crap, that was long, hahhaa zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm not a fan of auto-sync, but last time I checked it still mattered WHEN you mixed in the next track. I mean, in a world of hip hop today where beat matching has been replaced by beat dropping & air horns, if all you DJ is that kind of music, then auto-sync doesn't matter ( I mean, as long as both your left & right decks say "85 bpm" you should be pretty close. I call it fader-start DJing- just cue up the next CD, and slam the crossfader while pressing the sampler air horn button.

I'm primarily a house music DJ, and knowingEven though I've had an active interest in production & creation of electronic music for over 15 years, I'm only been a club DJ of about a year, taught by other local DJs with 15+ years of experience.

Auto-sync is a toy for most beginners, and if you look at software like Ableton or Sony Acid, with beatmapping capability, then you would know that no DJ software comes anywhere close to the capabilities of that kind of extensive beatmapping. Not even close... If beatmapping software was SO good at detecting downbeat & beats, then why didn't Ableton or Sony license that godlike beatmapping capability?

IF and ONLY IF you feel you have gone PAST the point of Serato, TO the point that your creativity is now hampered by beat matching, THEN the realization comes, that you don't need a DJ program with auto-sync, but rather a DAW that has beatmapping. Mixing NO longer required... Creativity no longer hampered by mixing.

And then you'll be a much happier more creative DJ with not just 2 decks, not 4 decks, but completely unhampered pile of channels that can have individual effects, midi maps, etc. Some awesome things and unbelievable mashups can be made this way. Beat loops, true on the fly music production. Plug ins & the ability to link to video VJ products.

BUT, do we add all these features to Serato? Is there a real point? Is there not better software for live production of music? Today you can get an SL3, use Livefeed with a second laptop running Ableton Live with a pile of MIDI controllers, and MIX IN your digital creation on the virtual decks.

they say there will be video for itch
they say they wont put auto into SSL

as long as radio is in control, no musical/production skills required to DJ

maybe I am mistaken, but hasnt Auto-DJ softwares been around for a pretty long time?
I dont think it really counts as 'cutting edge'

and why would you have to adapt to something that is more easy to do? you dont.
if you learn on auto-software you are going to have a hard time adapting to software without it

this 'DJ adapting' argument is just not real when it comes to auto-crap

take the auto away, and you will see some problems adapting. or if you started with DVS you might to be stuck presented with some real vinyl. reminds me of kids coming on here thinking the vinyl is falling apart because of the crud build up.

DouggyFresh, exactly

i don't know about you guys... but i get so bored watching the homo's doing "controllerism" on you tube, it will be a sad day when that is the norm for remixing instead of record control.... and that day is coming close....

NO AUTO BEAT SYNC OR I WILL PUKE.

anyone that thinks that auto beat sync is a good idea, needs to have their head examined, why dont we have auto scratch too, and auto phasing, transforming, auto video, lets make everything auto...
even ur responses to this forum...
"im a talentless bum" that should be ur auto response.
lets make robots that can fuck ur brains out too!
they should be auto easy for u losers that cant get laid.
ahhh fuck it, lets just have a juke box. thats what the owner will say. and then all u people that wanted auto this and that will have an auto nothing.

basically all of u guys that want auto beat sync, can even mix kool-aid

u beat bangers, go get traktor and leave.

auto wipe my ass please.

i just wanna ask everyone/anyone who is pro laptop djing and anti beat sync or other functions that take away from what the modern dj is expeced to do.

"this 'DJ adapting' argument is just not real when it comes to auto-crap"

i would agree with you if you do NOT use a laptop or any digitual assistance with your 1200s. cause if you are using SL, even in AB mode, you're still using 'auto-crap'.
beat sync aside...everyone here using a laptop is already "Auto-DJ"ing to some degree. beat sync is just 1 very small point in this debate

i don't understand the argument of 'learning on auto software'. anything more than techs with original vinyl is auto software.


"as long as radio is in control, no musical/production skills required to DJ"

i don't understand this point either. maybe this is why we seem to be at compleyely opposite ends on this topic...for once i think we may be making some headway. what style of djing do you do? do you remix on the fly? create remixes on your home studio to play at the club? those are both production/musical skills.

from my experience, i see that the advancement of digital technology has allowed djs to spend their time giving more production stlye performances. i mean...instead of spending time finding a cue point on your record and creating loops manually, or playing a duplicate record to create an effect, djs today are doing that electronically and spending that time to make quicker song changes, or modern day turntablism. those things just wern't possible in the beginning cause there wasn't time for it.

what i don't understand, is what is the fundemental difference between using a laptop with scratch's current functions and adding more to it? at what point was it decided that a certain function was considered 'auto-crap'?

...cause for me, everyone on these forums is using some form of auto-crap or another. it's like throwing stones when you live in a glass house....this is why i don't understand the counter debates.

i understand the point about 'learning' with auto technology, but at some point pretty much everyone does don't they? when do you stop learning about the past and start learning about what you are actually gonna do live?

i dunno, i cant get past the anti-function debate comming from seemingly newer dj's. like they are living in a small slice of the history of djing, arguing points that they themselves are unwittingly already guilty of. they've been around a few years and consider how they started as an original art, when in reality they were born into the microwave generation and learned from 'auto-crap' technology themselves....maybe with a very short experience of actually using straight up original vinyl.

Serato does one thing very well. It interfaces a library of music (i.e. the boxes of crates one once used to carry to a gig) to a vinyl record.

It also works with CDs, and I'm sure if CDJ-800's didn't exist and we were still using rack mount style CD players, Serato would have never made a control CD because it would simply defeat the purpose.

They added some looping features, something the CDJ guys have had forever. So now you can loop with your vinyl. They added cue points, again, something CDJ guys have had forever.

The loops make it convenient to MIX tracks, it happens to work OK to mash up tracks as well. Even some mild remixing on the fly. Maybe some sick stuff. But to the core of it, as the music library interface for a DJ, why is it we keep using this "debate" as well.

The guys asking for auto-beatmatch AREN'T the guys who should be using Ableton Live to make sick on-the-fly produced remixes and mashups (those guys are ALREADY using Ableton + Serato).

The guys asking for auto-beatmatch are the new guys who think Ableton is too hard to learn (beatmapping engine needs lots of help , you still have to understand music to make it work right), and that clubs aren't going to hire a DJ that doesn't use turntables or CD players. Club managers & owners are slow to change their ways, far slower than us digital DJs.

Yeah we're all in a transition time with digital, but you don't use a RPG to go hunting squirrels, and you don't take a .22 rifle and expect to blow things up.

Serato is a tool for a job. Ableton is a tool for a job. Ableton doesn't scratch or do vinyl emulation. Serato doesn't make remixes with multiple FX channels, internal send/returns, etc. It also doesn't have pitch correction, master BPM setting, FX automation. And it doesn't have an internal BPM metronome ticking by every moment for the auto-sync.

Why is it that everyone wants a swiss army knife DJ program? We all know a swiss army knife is a handy tool, but there's bigger knives, sharper scissors and better screwdrivers out there. Do we all want to have a program that has a little knife, dull scissors and tiny screwdrivers? Or do you want the program that has the best tools FOR THE JOB, knowing you can add MORE TOOLS for other jobs as well as your skills progress?

PLEASE add this feature along with a more accurate bpm readout e.g. from 120bpm to 120.15

The simple solution would be have an option to activate or deactivate these features.

I've seen Top quality DJ's who have switched over from CD/Vinly to Traktor just using these simple features has stepped up their game. Just having that extra minute to add in accapellas/loops or effects will take your creativity to the next level.

what... are.... u talking about?

what ???!!!!

what in the world ???!!

notice everyone that wants this stupid auto sync, just joined in the last few months ?!!!

anyone can tweak their damn bass, mids and treble on the damn mixer.... oh and lemme hit some buttons too
BIG WHOOPY DOO!

HEY EVERYONE!
I CAN TURN THE KNOBS ON THIS MIXER!

WHO CARES.

yes ... djing is turning into something really cool, but auto beat sync will somehow, some way.... RUIN the dj industry
and all these piss poor talentless schumcks will come out of nowhere

and i will NOT associate myself with a company that does that.

and anyone can move the pitch up and down a few percent, what's your point?

i'm not saying I WANT autosync, i'm just saying it's not something to cry over if it's implemented. if you don't like it DON'T USE IT.

well....ive seen no new or productive relies made to this topic on any thread. with that in mind, i think its just safer for me to make my next hardware purchases with the expectation to use them with another software solution cause honestly thisis going nowhere and i still have absolutely no clue where scratch or itch will end up finding their niche in the market. as it sounds right now (but ive only used either no laptop or serato), the competition have products that work just as well, do more & cost alot less due to not being so limited in hardware options.

time to look elsewhere.

it isnt about beat sync...its about technology in general & having the tools needed to provide a higher level of customer experience than anyone else in town

I had the opportunity to play in a club with some DJs that were using either Traktor or Virtual DJ and all with the exception of one (DJ Serafin), were using auto-beat-sync. It was pretty annoying to watch them load tracks and act cool as the stupid program was mixing for them. All they were really doing was using the mouse pad to control the volume/cross fader. I've always been skeptical of DJs not having external control such as CDJs or TTs.

my point ?
u probally cant do it LOL

well furrys, ur another noob that just jumped on.

and im not crying about it, im making my point. and im sharing my opinion that i dont wanna see it implemented in a company/software that i believe in(period). theres other rivers that must be crossed first.

and another point ... serato will still outsell everything with all their beatmatching and other hoopla

and zonkers, why dont u go buy traktor. u will be back, and hopefully u wont be whining about beat matching.

and when i say "their" i mean virtual dj...
traktor....

and who cares about what dj uses what...

richie hawtin probally gets paid to use traktor.

i have a friend who uses traktor, he wasnt even using any type of controller, was mixing straight from the laptop and a mixing board. i didnt care for it but that wa also before i used a laptop at all and had a hate on for any laptop djs the same way these guys have a hate on for beat sync. also got a friend who uses virtual dj, but he is physically disabled in one arm now after an accident so i never gave him a hard time about it. he also mixes off the laptop only.

so when i got serato, i did it against all my purist friends wishes. i just wanted to see what the hype was about and also cause i quit working locally and now work with a couple agents who seem to keep me flying enough to pay the bills and make things exciting again. so please dont anyone think im a newbie and am pro technology...im fact im probably more against it than most people here! difference is, if your(im) gonna do something like use a laptop, i might as well do it proper and make the most of it. for now, i (we all) can get away with putting on a fun show with basic gear...but thats not going to last for long. in fact over the last 10 years the industry has taken a huge downturn, yet most of the clubs keep doing the same thing. the ones in tough markets who are excelling are ones who are getting out of the old box thinking and the changing what the experience of a club is (coco bongo, cancun). it only makes sense that to play these fun gigs consistantly, the hired entertainment needs to be just as innovative and brings something new.

doing the same ol tricks with new technology sux. i agree it takes the talent out and kills the industry. its what you do with the new options that will make the difference in the next couple years

zonkers thats cool and all, i am listening to what ur saying. but there is gonna be something besides beat matching that will TAKE djing to next level. beat matching only brings it down. think of all the smaller time djs, in the smaller clubs....
the ones that spent alot of time perfecting their beatmatching skills, only to be be-littled by some noob with a nifty program. those guys are gonna get it worse!
they are gonna get undercut by these nifty little programs that anyone can use.


some djs use keyboards, some use music videos, some scratch, some use midi controled devices all to express their creativity. to me and tons of other djs, auto sync is not it. its the easy/bitch way out.

I scrolled thru most of this topic to see if my point of view has been mentioned and I dont think it has...at least the way i see it....so if Im repeating what someone else said sorry.

I personally am against auto sync....but I know its gonna happend no matter what. My prob is whats gonna happen next? I believe soon club owners are just gonna dump all the hot songs on a computer and its gonna beat match.....juggle...do all the FXs and maybe say something in the mic.

Im predicting the end of human deejays in the next 10 years or less. So I guess people are just gonna spin how they want...personally...i prefer the ol skool way mixed in with the new....with my laptop on but never lookin at the screen and using my headphones to beatmatch....with a bag of records nearby to think out of the box.

and thats part of why i say NO to auto sync.

serato makes good shit, they dont need to add some bullshit auto sync. i guarantee they lose tons of credibilty with the DJ.

depends on what kinda crowd u spinning for Henry. Real hip hop and House/Rave crowds yess....people care who is spinning. They go just to see em.

But reg clubs where people just wanna dance.....prob could care less. Maybe if DJ AM was spinning or some micro-celebrity. But other than that....people could give a rats ass.

exactly! thank you. this is what ive been saying, but now lets take it back a few years and realize that countless people have had the same argument everytime a new solution to came out to replace something that took some skill.

djs used to make very good money. lets say for the sake of example...90% of the djs used to make good coin. then cd players came out with loop and pitch controls, which made the basics much easier. so now the old schoolers got undercut by the new guys with cd players who could produce the same result with a shorter leasrning curve. and whats better, is that they would do it for half or less of the price!

repeat and rinse over and over, each time a new signigicant advantage comes out to the industry. people get undercut and peopel have these same debates.

thanks for understanding, its exactly the point ive been making over and over on a few of these threads.

to me and most of the djs who played on tech1200s with real vinyl, cd players and laptops are exactly the same easy or bitch way out as you put it. after awhile you gotta either change or find a new line of work.

and if scratch remains basically as is to provide a solution for a specific market, then great!

i think the difference in thinking betwene the true 1200 djs and the modern 1200 djs is that while the new guys dont want too too many functions that take the art or fun out of djing and think that just about anyone can take their job for half price, the old ones think thats already happened...so, who cares if they come out with yet another so called industry killing shortcut.

im surprised there arent any topics like this regarding premixed songs...like the use of ulti,funky,x,joe-blow mix. whats the difference

I personally am against auto sync....but I know its gonna happend no matter what. My prob is whats gonna happen next? I believe soon club owners are just gonna dump all the hot songs on a computer and its gonna beat match.....juggle...do all the FXs and maybe say something in the mic.

----------------------

again i agree, djs as we know have been on the way out the door for many years. its justa matter of time. so whos gonna replace themà
maybe an MC who selects songs with a bunch of go-go dancers to make it look entertaining....or maybe no one at all, just a bartender playing the hot bitches requests. maybe it will become nothing more than background music and live bands will dominate once agin. maybe djs were just a flash in the entertainment timeline for 40-50 years

enjoy it while ya can!

IM enjoying man...but the way I want. I do take time out of my day to tell a new skool deejay how it was back without serato. Just llke old rockers complain about how rock music now a days....or how old Emcee's complain about these new cats.

Its just our nature. the old is always gonna hate the new...with a few old cats embracing the new to look cool (like me! hahaha JK Im not that old).

; P

Oh btw what I mean about "old" and "new" doesnt mean old people and new people. I mean the Old Skool and the New Skool.

I dont want any grandpa's in here getting mad at me! haha!

just because one person, somewhat agrees with u zonkers does not make u right.LOL

maybe a lounge might have some sort of advanced jukebox, but guess what..
club owners want control and thats where the dj comes in, they CONTROL. and entertain and bla bla blah...
some of these smaller club owners will want to cut corners,and how will they do that ? the biggest expense they have, you.
but people always wanna see someone in the dj booth.
just like some band on stage.

im not one of these old farts that is against technology, i embraced this shit a long time ago. i was one of the first rockin cd players, i was one of the first rocking mp3s... so on so on.
and now im back to turntables because it truly is an art form and it feels great, and people appreciate it that much more.

PEOPLE DO NOT APPRECIATE JUKEBOXES.

and that is exactly what u will become, if u accept auto sync. u will have whores like paris hilton tellin u, that u suck, because she cant put a dollar in you and get her way.

SO ONCE AGAIN...

NO TO AUTO SYNC.

So you quote me, but reply with a completely unrelated argument. Which probably means that you will keep bringing up "you DJs just cant adapt" arguments.

what auto-crap are you talking about, loops and cues?
there is simply no comparison.



I think you are just saying 'computer=auto' for the sake of argument. What is the computer actually doing for you?



Im not arguing from any style point of view. The point is that EDM is not the only style that it seems your argument revolves around. As long as radio programming is in effect there will always be a large crowd that simply want to hear whats hot on the radio. They really dont care what type of musical production you can do live. Im just stating the fact, I actually prefer it wernt so, but it is.



sure, but the computer isnt DOING anything for you. I mean looping? is it doing this for you? Watchwww.youtube.com




at the point where the computer is really performing a function that you would otherwise be doing yourself. really there simply is no comparison with loops.



because its not the only issue



the point was that no one is afraid of ADAPTING to so-called new technology. Its a favorite accusation - simply not true



the problem is that you keep framing the debate that way, ignoring a bunch of other reasons its not wanted.

auto-mix is not the newest cutting edge shit thats out

Its ScratchLIVE not MixAUTO.
why bend it into some other type of program its not meant to be?
ITCH is for Auto.

It would be pretty stupid to have two platforms with all the same functions.



Someone tell me why you dont use ITCH if you want the auto-crap?

i think well have to agree to disagree. its seems to be a perspective issue caused by what id guess would be years in the industry. we both made the same point a few times, trying to reword it but with no changed understanding or results.

cheers

except that my main issues have nothing to do with style of music. Its the development and direction of the software. I dont care about whatever technology comes into being, what will be will be, I will use it or not. I just want to see THIS software kept headed in a certain direction.

Henry Im not agreeing with anyone on this topic...just callin it how i see it. And from what I see...club owners would do anything to save a buck. Lots of my friends that do big clubs sometimes get club owners or promoters or both trying to under cut them. Me included. But most of my homies have mad negotiation skills (I really dont at the moment) and they make the money they deserve.

Im just saying I could see a program that looks at the billboards top 100 or a radio stations play list n knows when to play certain songs. Blends and all that. Sounds far fetched but so did the concept of serato 15 years ago.

Haha...I keep reading my posts and it sounds like Im all for auto syncing....yet Im not. I hate being negative all the time....haha!

+ Keep Scratchlive no auto, i keep swinging back and fourth on this topic and basically think when Serato and Ableton get their collab thing happening it won't matter that serato Scratch can't auto sync.

Serato is meant for vinyl emulation, CD emulation a not so close second, the Sampler function is only cool now there's a SL3, otherwise it's a dumb feature for me. I don't even want the sampler to have pitch controls on it anymore, rather i just want my 3rd deck

Speaking of third deck, though, when you beatmatch two decks and make one run at internal, it goes out of sync because i think you've already compensated for your turntables wow and flutter, what's everyones take on this

I DJ because its fun. I love doing it. I am getting no love lately when it comes to gigs, and I don't like that, but I still love to rock out on the 1s and 2s at home. I've had plenty of gigs, and I hate to toot my own horn, but I always killed it. One of the reasons for this, is because I have fun DJing, I'm always rocking out, like its my own private party. Serato enabled me to mess around with different genres, and get more creative, but still being able to control the music with vinyl; scratching, juggling etc.

Remember how stoked you were when you started nailing those beatmatches back in the days?

Sure, we are all a wavie to a certain extend, but I don't care. There's so much 'purists' where I am from that hate on Serato big time for not being 'the real thing'. I don't care what other people think about what I do. I just love DJ-ing.

To me, most people that use Itch or Virtual DJ with some controller board are DJing, not because of DJing itself. They want what comes with DJing; money, fame, pussy, whatever. And it has become a lot easier for 'em. This is probably the biggest market so I would understand it if Serato integrated a feature like auto sync in the near future.

But I wouldn't like it or use it. People are correct when they say 'what's next? auto scratching?'. I like Serato like it is right now, and DJing is more fun than ever for me with its possibilities. And there it is: FUN. All the 'auto' features would just take the fun out of it.

oh man.

lol @ this thread.. No need for sync.

so i skimmed the thread...


here a summary from chicken little..
"THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING"

seriously? just cuz u can beat match 2 or more sources doesnt mean you know when to drop the next record or what record to drop next. not to mention it sure as hell cant cut or strobe nor add any flavor....it just matches tempo, not much more of a skill than matching volumes if you asked me

this world is just getting lazier and lazier, technology is cool, but look at the majority of america.... the kids don't understand what its like to exercise or play outside, play tag... etc. nothing is cool unless its online or virtual. Yes thats the future biting us in the ass, its one thing to have technology and its another thing to realize whats reality and whats virtual.

There's no way that computers/programs will replace dj's in lounges/clubs. The only thing I can see in store for dj's is a movement towards being "media" dj's, as in controlling lights/video as well as music.

Jukeboxes have been around for a LONG time and still haven't replaced any djs. Maybe at a bar this could/does happen, but other than that djs are safe from replacement. A computer will never be able to feel a vibe and know what track would sound perfect next..

Those who refuse to evolve with the times will certainly be replaced though. History shows us this time and time again. There was a time when djs using ONE turntable. Those who refused to start using two turntables and a mixer probably stopped getting work.

I'm of the opinion that moving a pitch slider while looking at the bpm readout is no different than pushing a button to do it. Everyone is basically arguing about two different forms of physical movement, which is fucking ridiculous. It's all about what you play when, not how awesome you are matching two tempos.

Personally for me Serato is more intuitive than my former program (Traktor), so even though it's got less features/functions than Traktor, I'm more creative with it. I'm not worried about Serato primarily b/c of the potential of the third deck + sampler + Ableton. By 2010 Serato will most likely be pretty advanced compared to other programs.

why watch a live band play at a concert when they can just pretend to lipsync to a CD?

c. will,

you could say the same about experience on a car knowing how to drive an auto or a 5-speed..... you essentially are moving the automatic shifter into place to put in into Drive or reverse... so you should know how to drive a manual then right?? oh wait, there is another step involved and thats called the clutch.

Just like autosync, yes you are essentially doing the same thing, but you are missing out on one important thing (like the clutch) that goes with experience and that is how to actually control your own music via a pitch and your ear, most people will grow up not knowing how to do this since the software does it.

I guess the future is for the better, or i mean more lazy ;)

The "Art" of Djing is filling the floor up with people by choosing the right music and mixing it in cool ways.

Beatmatching is a skill, not an art. It's a tough skill to learn, but at the end of the day it's a tool in the toolbox, not the defining characteristic of a DJ.

And let's face it, Serato's beatmatching system makes it so easy, it might as well be auto beatmatch, so what's the difference if I beatmatch by moving a slider or by hitting a key? If you're worried about a bunch of wavies getting into DJing because beatmatching is so easy now, you're too late. That stuff has been around for years, and Serato is doing it too!

My suggestion, let Serato worry about what features go into their software, you just worry about getting more gigs. If you don't like auto beatmatching, nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you use it...

computers could
download the hottest songs
play them at the right time in the set
track whos in the club and what their likes are
detect movement on the dance floor
get feedback from the owner
take requests
pull out a classic or two
pay attention to currant events
a computer can choose the right song

its not that far fetched
maybe this is a line in the sand that wont let it get that far

when was there a time when DJs used one turntable

how is using auto-sync evolving?
it takes less skill and knowledge

when I hear auto-mix it sounds 'stale'
there is no interplay between the tracks
you have less control
its wack

if you want the best control over your vehicle do you choose manual or automatic?

This has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum in 3 years. How is Beatmatching not at the creative heart? I think DJs have simply given up on learning or keeping up with the craft.

some of u guys really missed the boat on this one. and dont see the light, and i know its because u cant put two and two together....
akiem said it best, its called scratchlive. doh!
milli vanilli lip sync'd in concert(remember that) and it fuckin ruined their careers...
if they ever add this(which i PRAY they dont) i hope ur fuckin careers in this industry die, u lazy non-talented fucks

i think akiem is right. and has alot of good examples, u others are just taking in the ass.

well keep doing that, u fudge packers....


ur gonna ruin shit because u think that technology needs to move forward and bla bla blah..
that is ur only argument.. well... technology needs to move forward...

zzzzzzz

DJing is so much more than just keeping to tracks locked.

Is SSL going to tell you which track to pick next? No.
Will SSL tell you when to drop a track and how to mix it creatively? No.
Does the full dancefloor care if you use auto sync or not? No.

They want the music to sound good and couldn't give a rats arse about deskilling arguments from DJs already deeply entrenched in the digital age and all it has to offer. Let SSL take some of the pain and give you the time to get creative instead. Most of you are already watching waveforms anyway rather than using your ears so arguments against auto sync seem somewhat pointless.

Bottom line - auto sync would be just another tool. Use it or don't.

Yup

^^ Henry has a point. From reading all the posts, There shouldnt be DJs at all, if we want software to automatically calculate/beatmap tracks and all you do is sit up there and look like a buffon. I can respect what Richie Hawtin does because he is a legend and brings incredible energy. you pack are just like the DJ AM fanboys, cept you on the electronic nuts! Technology moved forward very significantly with Serato and this is still not enough to quench your thirst.

doesn´t SL already have autobeatmatch?
With all those little helpers like Waveforms and helpers for the speed?

Like having a laptop with 1 million tracks at your fingertips isnt a leap forward in technology???

I somewhat agree with this. Of course, some people look at waveforms... but they don't use them to beatmatch. Some of us use it to know when the track is going to end, to know when to drop a track, stuff that you would do on a regular record... unfortunately, you can't tell when a track is going to end by looking at the damn control vinyl! hahaha

ScratchLIVE, no auto sync ever
ITCH, auto-sync for life

use the other product if you need to. I'm not in any hurry, but I see an Itch system in my future (maybe for my kids). On the other hand, I would be very upset if I felt that the ScratchLIVE team was working on auto-sync. ScratchLIVE brought me back from CDJs to vinyl and that is what I love about it. I would much rather see development focused on sound quality, adding that third deck, and smart crates.

I think this point was made on one of the soap boxes above, but a ScratchLIVE DJ using autosync will destroy what credibility is left in our craft. Right now, SSL is respected as the premier DVS system for turntable DJs. A DJs reputation would be ruined and the club owners and talent buyers would think even less of someone who uses SSL. Let the tracktorites ditch their decks, let Itch handle the auto-sync, and go watch some Q-bert on youtube.

With the new SL3 and Serato pressings, I feel like ScratchLIVE is firmly sticking to customer base that made it the success that it is. They are smart business people, so I bet they are watching this thread closely. (until it jumps shark)

hey scratchworx
stick to ur website

becasue all ur doing is inviting laziness.. and non talent shmucks into this world of ours. and thats what it is, to some djs its a real pain in the ass to try and beat match...
let it continue to be that pain.... why? because it takes talent to do certain things...
and when u have no talent u want the easy way out.

i seen one of crooklyn clans most popular artist.. djin live on youtube, seen several different videos of this guy, and he sucked ass. but guess what.. he can fuckin remix like noone else. but he sucked and the crowd just stood there, i laughed, but fuck, hes getting gigs off of his remixes????
thats bullshit.

u should get gigs because u can re-enact what u can do in the studio LIVE
and when u cant do that, ur a just a fuckin milli vanilli.

The further we go down the Auto-Path, I dont see why not. Ten years ago no one would have ever suggested auto-mix. Ten years from now people will be demanding Auto-Download, Auto-Select, Auto-FX (and Im not joking)



It could

more DJs then just a few are playing straight down the crate,
just like they used to play straight through a real crate

A you dont even need real AI to pic hot tracks, and play them at 1AM.



leave it out of SSL, put it in ITCH and everything else

*sigh*

While we're at it, let's add an "Auto-Scratch" feature too. I've been wanting to incorporate that turkey butt, world-wind, crab flare, atomic wedgy to my routine.

ANYBODY who call themself a DJ should be ashamed of theirself for even welcoming this feature. And things like this drives the price of gigs down because it is one less skill involved.

amf.... the efx500 or 1000 from pio had the transform effect, tap it to the right bpms and it could sound like you are doing the hottest transforms to date!!! :)

AMF, so true.

this feature would throw scratchlive into the cheapness of virtual dj and traktor.
and the only thing i use the waveforms is to see some of breakdown in songs. when theres no beat, or when its coming back in....
NO TO AUTO SYNC

very true rocket!
u can transform with that feature on the 800 and i have seen some djs use it liek that. some djs cant crab that fast.

GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE WITH THAT AUTO-BEATMATCH BULLSHIT.

Mixing is the #1 basis for DJing. Take that away, then even the lady that lives across the street from me could be a DJ (almost).

Stop trying to drive my (our) profession into the realm of a dishwasher at Denny's.

Now I'm gonna be pissed off all day...

this is where we draw the line.... is serato trying to help us?? or just help themselves for the $$$?? well they are a business so i think we know the answer to that. but where to draw the line?

*slap*

Wait, now that I think about it, I do want auto-sync... so I can pick my nose and scratch my balls while "DJing."

so how do people running internal mode keep the track sync'd without autosync??? oh wait, a midi controller with pitch bending.... maybe you should do that instead of waiting for an autosync button for the "third deck".... not that hard to figure that one out

+1

auto sync?

the website is the serato colours but it feels like im over at native instruments. did i take a wrong turn somewhere?

The forum's in the twilight zone again.

I think it's sad if you define DJ's by their ability to beatmatch by ear.

I can pull a trigger, does that make me a sniper? I can cut steak, does that make me a surgeon? I can drive a car, does that make me a nascar racer?

If auto-beatmatching can kill the DJ business, that is proof that beatmatching is not the art of the DJ. Robots can't do art, but they can beatmatch. Therefore, beatmatching is not art.

The bottom line is, you can't stop technology. It will advance whether you like it or not, and whether it's good for your business or not. If you want to keep your job, concentrate on delivering a product that no machine could ever deliver - reading the crowd, playing the right song at the right time, mixing it in a way that keeps the vibe going.

The music industry tried to stop technology, by shutting down napster, and trying stupid DRM like SACD's (remember them? Probably not.) It failed, because at the end of the day the market is going to get what it wants. So you can whine all you want about technology, but tomorrow is going to happen, no matter what.

While I CAN beatmatch by ear, I define myself as a DJ because I can rock a crowd, not because I can line up the transients.

WHAT ?


WHAT DID HE SAY ?


WHAT ?????


SOMEONE SHOOT ME!

no, but it starts with stupid shit like auto beat match. the people that say u cant stop technology are just using that as an excuse.

It's not about killing the business as much as it is selling out.

I acknowledge that this debate will always exist, but I'm speaking for the side I'm on loud and clear. NO AUTO-SYNC FOR SSL. Stick to ITCH if you want that Mickey Mouse shit.

I wanna find out something.

How many deejays here that spin ONLY hip hop want beatmatching?


How many deejays here that spin ONLY House or Trance want batchmatcing?


How many mobile deejays want beatmatching?


Im for real....dont be shy

they couldnt stop the people from using the technology, not the technology itself. they couldnt stop people from stealing. they couldnt stop peoples hunger for free music, has nothing to do with the technology

Robots can do art all day, they just dont realize it

auto-sync is not advanced, or even furthering technology. its been around for years

Robots can do art all day, they just dont realize it
auto-sync is not advanced, or even furthering technology, its just not in SSL.

I promise a program could be designed to 'read the crowd'

How many deejays here that spin ONLY hip hop want beatmatching?
I don't want auto beatmatching.


How many deejays here that spin ONLY House or Trance want batchmatcing?
I don't want auto beatmatching.

(Mind you, I spin a variety of genres as well)


How many mobile deejays want beatmatching?
I don't want auto beatmatching.

also...
think about all these stupid radio programmers that want mixed music...

why should they bother hiring a dj to do it. they can fuckin just load the songs that they want, and not what the djs think should be broken in.


fuck... u want people to control more of what u listen to ?
u wanna fuckin hear britney spears all fuckin and NIGHT ??
at least the djs at these top 40 stations(that most are controlled/programmed by clear channel) can play outside the box

but not if the radio programmer can do it... because he/she has this stupid program that can mix for them.

IDIOTS. ur so dum'

haha yeah i forgot to mention djs that spin all genre's. My point is Ive been meeting a lot of house/trance/drum n bass deejays lately in my area. They have only been spinnin for no more than 2 or 3 years and they already doin big time gigs.

I had a discussion what they wouldnt mind having on serato. The very first thing they ALL said first (there was 3 of them) was Auto-Sync.

I spin House sometimes too...and house music is real simple to spin. just gotta know what song to play n when

i swear i wanna smack all of u idiots that want this auto sync GARBAGE.

Auto beatmatch has been around for almost nine years. It's already here! So you can tell Serato not to use it, but you have done nothing to stop its existence. And let's face it - Serato might as well have it because it makes it so easy anyways.

I'm not saying serato should include this feature - that's up to them. I'm just tired of the whole "a DJ is someone who can beatmatch by ear" mantra. I think it disrepects what we actually do, because we do SO much more than that. And the fact that it can be done by a computer only proves my point - I don't want to be defined by what a computer can do (better) - that's how you lose your job, just ask the auto industry guys!

With or without auto-sync, radio has gone down the shit hole in my opinion (well not all stations, but you know what I mean).

From a production standpoint, I would love to be able to sync hardware and various VST instruments within Scratchlive. Enferno already innovates by doing this live in his sets with matching acapellas and what not in his remix project, but there is definitely next level shit when it comes to just having everything in sync.

For example: the ability to have two tracks matched in scratch live (whether its going to be through deck 1 and 2 or the sample player) or just having the ability to have it sync with another host (ableton) and giving me the opportunity to midi sync with a bunch of equipment that can manipulate and play in real time sounds dope.

On another note, whatever innovation happens, you'll always have someone who'll be against it. Does everyone remember the vinyl purists that were up in arms about the Digital age (cds, serato)? Even with Serato giving the vinyl feel of mixing digital, all these people were still pissed.

People were pissed about the SL 3 and it's price, but when you do the math in regards to buying records back in the day and buying mp3s now, you're saving loads of money.

Either way, Serato is an awesome innovation in itself. And you'll never make everyone happy.

Oh and I definitely see autosync happening at least for the sample player. My two cents.

U CAN NOT COMPARE THIS TO THE AUTO INDUSTRY, GET A CLUE

Yeah, hmmm... I guess our skills and appreciation for challenges that come with attaining our fundamental skills have prompted companies and lazy "DJs" to have a machine try and emulate it.

just sad because now our talent, great taste, and skills won't separate us from the lame wedding dj's that just slam tracks because they didn't know how to beatmatch or take the time... now they can just click a button and still look lame on their dual cd front loading decks.

*facepalm*

all thats what opinion is worth. two cents.

Why do u guys for auto-syncing want deejaying to be "easy"? Then EVERYONE is gonna be DJs. We are gonna lose more gigs to high profile celebrities with laptops

so fuckin true.

to be honest, i know serato isn't going to not put in an auto-sync feature, they will do what the majority of the microwaves want, and what the future holds.... so ill just deal with it, but please don't call me an asshole for making fun of you for not being able to beatmatch without clicking your mouse.

might as well just program nba09 for the xbox to play in the demo mode so we don't even have to pick up a controller to play.... whats the fun in controlling the players/game if you can't win all the time??? /sarcasm

next thing u know, everyone from the real world or some stupid reality show will be a dj.


come see fuckin moron from the real world be a lazy ass bitch of a dj

too late homie. Club owners are already paying top dollar for people like that to spin at there clubs.

Fuck that foo from GOOD CHAROLETTE or whatever that "rock band" is called DJs here and there....WHAA???

Dude, those DJ's have had that capability for NINE years. If it hasn't happened by now, it's not going to happen. DJ's with real skill will always rise to the top, that's just the way it goes.

i know this wedding dj in my town...
he does weddings for liek 300 bucks... why ? cuz he sucks
he also djs some minor bars and shit on the side, hes been djing for probally 25 years, and still doesnt know how to beat match, but guess what...
he got bumped from these minor bars cuz theres people that can mix better than him + more

but if he had a program that allowed him to do that... he would use it and sound better and undercut everyone else...
so instead of these djs gettin 2-300

he would be doin it for 75

but hey u morons want beat sync because U CANT STOP TECHNOLOGY >?

gimme a fuckin break.

its not going to happen
why did Serato make ITCH?
separate programs, separate features



NINE years, now thats cutting edge technology!

Kue, I never appreciated turntablism on CD players until the CDJ came out, and as an owner of CDJs, I still prefer mixing and skratching on 1200s.

The image of an exciting DJ comes from seeing them in action, doing things manually.

Besides -

Serato 550 (or 699 for SL3)
Mixer 100-500 for standard 2-line
2 powered speakers - 1000
laptop - 500-1500

so $2150 - $3700 to get a setup = not EVERYONE can DJ. You got to be serious about it, if you ever want to play for $$.

cutting edge ?
it will cut u out of a job.

anybody with rich mommies and daddies can. And personally those are the ones that bug me. For some reason they never quite get it.

What's your point? My point is that you guys are talking about auto beatmatch like it's a new thing that will ruin the DJ industry, while its been around for almost a decade and somehow real Dj's are still getting work.

And NONE of these "celebrity" DJs stay around. Because they're wack. And everyone knows it.

Which is exaclty my point - even with auto-beatmatching, the Dj with true skill still rises to the top. So it can't be beatmatching that makes us real DJs.

my point is serato is so good that if they came out with auto beat sync, two things of many will happen

it will cheapen the product and the djs that use it.

and another if serato does do auto beat match, i guarantee they do it right.

so cross u been sayign the same exact thing for the last 3 hours...

we all been making different points here on why its a bad idea.

all u say is technology is movign forward. WTF ?

I think it's not about beatmatching, it's about dedication.

Learning to beatmatch SUCKS. It's a pain in the ass, it takes a lot of TIME, DEDICATION and PERSISTENCE. I remember all the hours I spent on my friend's technics (because I couldn't afford my own) trying to get two friggen songs to line up.

So when we hear about some guy who didn't go through all that hardship, but still gets to rock a crowd, it ruffles our feathers. Beatmatching became a kind of "secret handshake" that proved you had put in the time to be a real DJ.

I get it - hell, I get a little miffed at that too. But the fact remains that DJing is just plain easier to do these days. I don't have to carry my crates of vinyl to gigs, I don't have to search through them endlessly during the show, I don't have to buy more copies of songs because they have been played too much or I want to rock doubles. That ease has freed up creative juices that allow us to do tricks that we could never do before.

It's our dedication that makes us real DJ's - our love for the work.

My point is that its not the inevitable advancement of technology like its everyones destiny to use it or parish.

put it in SSL and it will be a mess

I never would have purchased SSL if it was in - because it would make it a toy
and if it were a toy it wouldnt be standard

I would have went with those Tascam rolling things or whatever software respected the DJ enough not to put that shit in there

Dude - I've been saying SOOOO much more than that. All you've been saying is you want to slap people for wanting auto beatmatching.

Serato's beatmatching aids are so good, it might as well be auto. What's the difference between moving a slider and pushing a button? Because that's pretty much the only difference between what serato already can do and what auto beatmatching is.

I've also been saying that it's been around for a while, and somehow real Dj's are still working.

So reread my posts if you think all I've said is "technology is moving forward."

And my point is keep auto-sync out of serato and let them use virtual DJ. And "Dj with true skill still rises to the top'... What skill will be left? The skill of "who can rick roll a track the best"? Or who can press the most buttons in 10 seconds? What skill is left?

Fair enough - although I would say that Serato is the standard because it is rock-solid and simple, and it uses equipment that is already in most clubs.

And isn't the fact that you're using serato proving the point of advancing technology? Why aren't you just using vinyl? Serato came along and changed the game - you pretty much have to use it to remain competative. That's just the nature of an evolving marketplace.

Ask yourself this: "If I didn't have to beatmatch by ear, then what else would I be doing up in the booth?" If your answer is "nothing," then I don't think you belong in the booth. There's SOOO much more to DJing than lining up transients. Seriously.

same could be said about buying vinyl - when I started playing, it took me a good 6 months to get enough records to even play an hour-long set. Now, people already have 1000s of tracks immediately when they start.

The idea of "paying dues" is long gone beatmatching or otherwise. If anything, blame the promoters, bar owners, and ultimately the crowd for really not giving a shit anymore and settling...

'Cause my back hurts from years of carrying it around.

Man...This made me mad. Sorry to single u out but beatmatching is suppose to be hard. Or else everyone would do it. And dont hate on the guy that rocks the parties that doesnt blend beats....they are few and far between and they dont last long. TRUST!

AMEN!

True

Regardless of what happens I think everyone would be better off using this time to learn the ins and outs of Ableton live so when the partnership thing is announced we'll all be ready to bust out some truly next-level ish.

Totally agree

But my point is that everyone CAN do it now - even with serato as it currently stands. So getting all mad about something that is already happening and can't be changed is a waste of energy.

If DJs would have looked at it as a toy (as many if not most would have) it would never have mattered how solid it is. A solid toy, so what? It was even considered because it remained true enough to what most DJs felt DJing is.

I never said technoloy was not advancing, it obviously is. The point is that Auto is not advanced, its not cutting edge, its not the future, its not the next step, its some old shit that was never fucked with till all morals and dogma were broke.

Yes Serato changed the game, but Auto did not, thats the point. Auto is not a game changer, just a software changer - I dont want it changed.

but that is ur conclusion socross..

technology is moving forward, we already have enough shit why not make it auto.

thats not good enough. its a pain, thats not good enough.
im not looking out for myself, im looking out for everyone. this might make it easier for some noobs.. and for the top djs that wanna focus on something else..

but beat matchign is still a big part of what makes a dj. ur right djign is so much more.. right ?
explain what YOU think that is...

Ask yourself this question: "if I use auto-sync, should I be in this DJ booth?". If the answer is "yes" I don't think that person belongs in the booth. There's SOOO much more to DJing than loop rolling a track. Seriously. =P

p.s. I mix by ear. =)

You my friend have diarhea of the keyboard. We get it, you dont want it.

that was pretty funny, but you didn't respond to the post - if you didn't beatmatch by ear, what else would you be doing in the booth?

If you actually read my posts rather than just being blind with rage against auto-bpm, you would know the answer to that...

DJing is about picking the right music, at the right time, and mixing it in a cool way so you fill the floor up with people. It's about having the love and dedication to put up with all the shit we have to put up with, just so we can spin the music. THAT's the art of djing, in my humble opinion.

If you want auto sync, that's cool, in fact while you're at it why don't you just pre-record your set at home, bring your cd to the club and kick back while all the groupies marvel at your mastery of the CD player.

Look, if you want auto-sync so bad then buy traktor. Just do us a favor and don't call yourself a DJ. How about MJ (Mouse Jockey), or HDJ (Hard Disk Jockey), or maybe JBOT (Juke Box Operations Technician).

I think its funny how a lot of peeps that dont normally post are the ones that are more "AUTO AUTO AUTO" and the more experienced djs are the ones that are so against...

If you want auto sync software, you won't need to bother with turntables or cd players...

I dont think it will matter...but there's no way to auto sync if you are gonna use tt's...

Kids are lazy these days son! haha!

what makes a top40 mix different then the other???? thats the challenge... anyone can drop the "heaters" now everyone can be a top40 dj.

Thank god i have taken the time to learn to have fader and record control... whats next, homie scratching with his mouse and having an "auto-tune type of plugin to sync it to the tempo??"...

LOL

If people want auto-sync or a toy.... virtual dj is out there and does all of this, and its also available via torrents, so to keep with the wavie (im lazy and don't want to practice or pay to get somewhere... attitude) it perfectly suits you, now let us professionals get back with the art of djing.

LOL... exactly, pre-record ur set, so u can come in the club and tweak... phase..... flange(hahaha i had to look at my pioneer 800 to see what else it does) and echo LOL

I read crowds, use some effects, scratch a bit, make all kinds of announcements during the night, take a few requests, work the lighting a bit, figuring out where I'm gonna take the crowd next... AND MIX.

Now what do you do when you're in the booth?


I'm not pissed at you Socross. I'm just trying to have some good debate going on here. ;)

you can write a program that will pick the right music at the right time. the more auto shit you get, the more auto shit you get, and before you know it, its all auto shit.

DJing is about picking the right music, at the right time, and mixing it in a cool way so you fill the floor up with people. It's about having the love and dedication to put up with all the shit we have to put up with, just so we can spin the music. THAT's the art of djing, in my humble opinion.

theres so much more to djing...

and auto beat matching is not one of them.

TO BE CLEAR - I don't want auto sync, or more specifically, I don't give a rat's ass if they include it or they don't. If they feel it's good for their business, then they should go for it. It's in their best interest to make as many DJ's as possible - that's how they make their money. I'm not going to hate serato because they want to make more money.

My point is getting your panties in a bunch about something that already exists and can't be changed is a waste of time. AND if you define yourself as a DJ because you can beatmatch, you are selling yourself short - you do WAY more than that.

Serato already makes beatmatching so easy, it might as well be auto!! Seriously guys, if this pisses you off so much, then you should really be writing a petition to put serato out of business, and go back to vinyl. Because serato is already doing the stuff that makes you angry.

I think djs should just stick to the old school method of djing. Here is what I propose.

1. Mix in absolute mode. Mixing in relative mode is lame. I want the old school feel of needle skipping and listening to a record by needle dropping.

2. Don't use cue points. Matter of fact, for each song that you have in your library, make sure you have a control record, and mark your cue point with tape on the record instead.

3. Better yet, limit the number of songs you have to the number of records you can carry in crates.

4.No more looping. Looping is lame. If you want to "loop" make sure you beatjuggle the same sample over and over again.

5.No more doubles unless you have two control records with the same tape marks.

If there is anything I've missed, please feel free to fill in the gaps. Thanks! :)

[/end lolz]

if richie hawtin is using auto beat match, i dont care how big of a house dj he is, i would laugh in his face, and just say...

why dont u just call urself richie hawtin instead of dj richie hawtin.

using the dj title to say something that u might not be...

dj = DISC JOCKEY. once u stop using discs, ur just a jockey. go ride a horse cowboy

Hehe no worries man, I like a good debate :P

The thing I noticed when I switched from vinyl to laptop (never made the CD leap) was that I had so much more TIME to watch the crowd. I feel more connected to my crowd than I ever did back in the 90's. Back then, my head was down looking through crates or lining up beats. These days, I'm still looking for music and lining up beats but it takes so much less of my time and attention. I can concentrate on reading the crowd, doing cool tricks and scratching. It's just more FUN.

zzzzzz

6. Scrap your vinyl and go back to using wax drums!! Only real DJ's spin wax!!

thats the first thing u said that i liked.

i like spending my time reading the crowd too, talking to people, building a following, ur right when i had my head buried into my crates, it sucked, i hated carrying all my vinyl intoa club, it sucked.


but u know what sucks the most...

seein retarded djs using beat match and gettin credit for soemthing they dont even know how to do.

beat matchin should always be a part of djing.

instead lets just make everything auto

1 pop open the laptop
2 it gps knows where it is
3 connects - downloads the new hotnsess blazing on the charts
4 it auto plays soft shit because the camera no-one there yet
5 as the place fills it ups the tempo
6 access the facial recognitian to know everyones tasts
7 chic star got beat up in the news - play more of that ho
9 crowds not moving? stop everything, play the daily download dumb shit Paris Hilton or some other bitch has to say and slam into the #1 jam

what are you doing in the booth while your computer does all this? - and its called advancement in technology so it has to be right. If you dont embrace it get left behind.

Dude, you're losing me with all your blatant hyperbole. There is an art to djing, and robots can't do art. auto bpm is already here, I'm not saying you have to use it or lose, I'm just saying that complaining about it isn't going to accomplish anything.

Personally, I'm more worried about streaming DJ's, where a club just plugs into a feed from some other club. This is way more possible and has nothing to do with auto bpm. It's a much bigger threat and nobody is talking about it!

it won't be a threat because thats just like watching a laker game from home, or really going to the game.... people want to see a human behind the counter/booth making it happen.

Want to goto a restaurant with a full automated server staff??? no!!! might as well goto mcdonalds for fast food then....

McDonalds aint broke

Anybody advocating this is advocating laziness.


I'm sure you'll all have some big long winded response but the bottom line is auto-sync is for the lazy and takes away one more skill required to rock a set.

Well, if that's true (and I think it is) then we can lay Akiem's fears to rest...

yes robots can do art, they just dont know what they are doing.

if you wrote a program right the computer could do a hell of good job with song selection - especially in the future where it could read every single person in the crowds preferences, monitor the dance floor, select from all the music ever recorded - futuristic

No long windedness here! :P

My response is that the beatmatching skill is already no longer required to rock a set, like it or not. I do beleive that being able to do it makes you better, but is not required.

why are so still arguing socross ?

u fuckin want auto sync. we hear u, and dont care.

Your first sentence contradicts itself.

If your second paragraph is true, then our days are numbered. I suspect that people will always want the personal touch that a human brings to the table. I also think that your robot DJ is so far in the future (if ever) that we don't need to be worried about it.

i think it is required, and dont know where u come off sayin that...

so why advocate for soemthign that will supposedly end ur career ?

man, r u really this dumb ?

Dude - read my posts. Take a breath. Then read them again. I don't give a rat's ass if they put it in or they don't. I'm not advocating either side. I've made my points, if you still don't get them I'm not going to retype them for your benefit.

Also, take your own medicine - we get that you don't want it, you hate it, it's worse than nazis - we get it.

I'm smart enough to spell out words like "are" and "you."

My arguement ALL ALONG (are you reading this?) has been that these things have been around for ALMOST A DECADE and somehow we still get work. So auto bpm can't be the antichrist that will usher in the armageddon.

right and we heard ur side. sooooo why are u still saying soemthing ?

so many people against this...
and i think u do care . if not u wouldnt even bother with this.

good for you with are and yous
zzzzzzzzz

so why push for it in serato ?

how is that?




All that technology exists now. Theres a couple clubs out the right now that scan who you are when you enter. So it compiles a playlist from there, downloads another couple lists. Not that hard to point cameras at the floor and detect the amount of movement. If the movement is low, if people walk away, play hotter shit. Its not even all that advanced. If a computer can win a chess, it can figure out what the next hot song should be.

If you think beatmatching isn't required to rock a set than you and I have a different idea of rocking a set.

If you think beatmatching isn't required to rock a set then you and I have a different idea of rocking a set.

open the door for it yes
ITs been around for a decade mostly as a TOY, making advances with lazy microwaves here and there - you put it in the top choice PRO Software and its a whole other story.

Regardless of your feelings about auto sync, it's more than inevitable that it'll be added to the SSL arsenal, alongside all the other goodies that the digital age offers. Market forces demand it, and ultimately Serato are a business and absolutely have to remain competitive.

So instead of fighting against something that does actually offer a lot more than just making it easier to beatmatch (let's have those samples all running in sync), why not think about what it can give you, how you can use it to make you a better DJ and how you can keep ahead of the new jacks who will come along and still be crap DJs despite having the same tools at their disposal.

Everyone agrees to disagree.

You dont think that ITCH is there to meet that demand? And does it more efficiently since it was designed to do so from the ground up? You dont see how much is waisted by having the two different platforms performing all the same functions?

It makes perfect sense to leave it out of SSL and perfect it in ITCH.

The real problem here is the Scratch LIVE is so much the premier standard people wanting ITCH functions overlook the fact that ITCH even exists.

i soooo disagree with this statement.

and what market demands it ?
the lazy?
the talentless?
the boring?

and serato can be competitive in different areas.
liek i said this will cheapen the brand "serato"

just like traktor is a joke.

people will be like oh...u use serato, u are a good dj...

with auto sync, wow u use serato, u dont know how to mix?

lets think about how it cheapens the industy.

Autosync will not make me a better Dj, it will make me a lazy Dj. I could beatmatch without headphones years before I even knew what Serato was, I can lock a beat within seconds which is faster and more accurate than any beat matching program I've ever seen. I don't care about it for me because I won't use it and I will still be better than any hurry come up Dj I stand against. But I'm not going to co-sign anything that contributes to an already lazy bunch of Dj's. the less they have to do, the less they care, and that drives down the value of a Dj in general.

Venue owners have long caught onto this and it's reflected in the scene today. It won't be long before they have us bussing tables too in addition to our current status of Dj/promoter because they're already convinced it takes little to no brain power to Dj. You may not care, but I do. And believe me, I'm well with the times, but my times don't include fischer price do everything for me apps that contribute to the dime a dozen mentality most people already have about our industry, one I've been dedicated to since I was 10 years old.


Auto-Sync is the Dj's answer to Antares Auto-Tune, yet another tool for talentless hacks to skip every last step of respect for the craft so they too can be a Dj like everyone else.

Sorry, let me rephrase - beatmatching by ear is no longer required. Do people do it? Sure, and I think being able to do it makes you a better DJ, but it's clearly not required.

i dont think i could have said it better

shamann, u got me all teared up(no homo)

As far as I know, in every profession you have to cut your teeth, and in DJing there is no exception. One of the reasons why I wanted to be a DJ was because of the fun and pride that came out of learning.

AKA the lazy and the talentless.

Dedicated, talented DJ's will always win over lazy and talentless DJ's. Are you really afraid of a bunch of lazy and talentless people? They seem like the last people you should be worried about. Be afraid of some uber-talented Dj taking up the spots, that makes more sense.

So if the new technology will allow for a bunch of lazy and talentless DJ's, I say bring it on! I'm gonna wipe the floor with them anyways.

I don't want SSL to be polluted with that tech, and I have no respect for dudes who claim to be professional DJs yet use auto-sync during their performances. That's what I'm saying.

they already have this the pioneer cmx-3000 has an auto beat match button and its been out for like 10 years

NO TO AUTO STINK

Have you been out there lately?







It's not about that anymore, show and prove wise I'm VERY confident in my ability. But now it's become who can we get the cheapest, who will bring in the most people without us having to do any work (Dj audition comps...WTF), how many jobs can you do at once and how many Facebook friends you have. I can't support anything that allows one more aspect of what seperates us (Dj's vs Hobbyist/Dj/Promoter/Hosts) to be thrown out the window


How many fundamentals are there left to discard in this shit? Beatmatching was always the one tell that couldn't be faked. Funkymix...hey let's fake a scratch, store bought mash-ups...hey I can fake a remix, song selection...hey I can C&P AM's list off of a forum. But beatmatching is the one, most basic component of Djing that will expose your ass right then and there. take that away and what's left?

he has a point here anyone whos relying on auto beat match is just picking tracks anyway their not scratching or being creative phrasing ect ect so their performance should be dwarfed by a real dj, if serato puts it in who cares just dont use it, it will be very obvious who uses it and who dosent, besides i enjoy beat matchin by ear but that takes a whole what 8 seconds per track to do

Shaman your right about all this BUT an auto-beatmatch button wont make you cheaper or help you bring in more people so thats kinda off the subject. A dj can learn to beatmatch and still charge 10 dollars and fill a stadium while an auto beatmatcher can still charge 1000 and bring in 4 people

damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shamann speak brotha speak!!



preach to these mindless fools.

how can u argue with shamann says... he hit every point that u guys have been tryin to make, r u that close minded to what may become ?

i will tell u whats left


nothing.


a fuckin jukebox.

im not arguing shamans correct but hes correct about a point that has nothing to do with the argument. He says all promoters care about now is price and what kind of crowd you can bring.....a beatmatch button wont dictate what you charge or bring you in a crowd.

all the auto shit is going to do is give more time for phasers and airhorns.... :(

If you feel like that than how does it feel knowing that the only thing seperating you from a jukebox is the ability to listen to a song and move a slider a little bit to match it to another song.....8 secs of work. If there was an automatch buton I WOULD NOT USE IT, but past that djing DOES have alot to do with knowing what songs to play and when and how. I would rather listen to a dj who couldnt really beat match but played great songs and keeps the energy going than a dj who can beatmatch perfectly but plays crap and ruins the momentum.

Actually it will. I've already seen it with my own two eyes. A very nice club I was interested in I took note that they had a resident Dj who was also the resident sound guy and resident other things as it seemed. Buddy would lock his auto-sync and walk away and tend to other things. The whole idea of concentrating on the Djing was of little importance to him. And obviously of little importance to the owner.

There will be undercutter Dj's regardless of skill I agree but this just invites a whole new set of them to fake their way in. If they're not as invested (time and energy wise) they care less about being properly compensated, owners no longer need to pay a Dj what he's worth because these cats have made what we do worthless. Hey I'm a promoter, fuck paying a Dj, I can just hook up my laptop look at this cool thing it does, I just line up the tracks and it does it all itself.

Don't get me wrong, I too am NOT about an 'Auto Sync' function for the decks!! However, I do see the benefit of the SP-6 having some type of "automatic" BPM calculation & possibly synchronization. The SP-6 is NOT a sampler, but a sample player, thus it would be great if you could correctly time the particular sample you intend to use during whichever tempo you are playing at the time.

How could anyone argue with this?

I'm sorry but I want to use the SP-6 for otha' shit besides dropping "Yeeeah Boooy" (or whatever cheesy drop sample) over breaks in the track! If this were implemented, it would stir up a whole new set of possibilities for creativity!

After all, isn't this the reason Kats are drooling over the SSL & Ableton partnership. In fact, I don't see how Ableton & Scratch Live are going to be able to "work together" without some type of "auto syncing".

My 2¢

just curious what other things was he tending too?? I had a situation like this once, i was talking to an owner about DJing there and he was telling me that to be the DJ there I would have to bar back also while the song was playing...YAAA RIGHT!!! Damn strip clubs haha

But in that situation (depending on what else he was doing) if he was not hired because of his mixing ability and was only hired because he worked for cheap, you COULD have undercut him and still had the gig which is why im saying that dosent have much to do with his magic button

the whole art of mixing two songs together was an art because songs were different tempos... different starting points, etc. this will take the the mix out of mixing... honestly think about it.

thats what the DJ grabber does

I've used em live, just hate that it has no memory and not enough pads

just got an sp404 yesterday to incorporate into my live rig

Though you are 100% right about them not having the time invested in learning the craft, I HAVE seen too many people like this who just hop into it with this HUGE sence of entitlement since they spent the time and effort to DL VDJ and tag their huge downloaded library

Take a look at these Dj "competition/audition" things that have become popular. Owners get away with throwing a bunch of dudes on stage who really don't care, just bought a bunch of toys and brough out 50 friends to scream while they actually do nothing up there. they don't care that they're not getting paid, it's a status thing and with all these apps that take away from skill anybody can do it. Giving them more ways to fake it is just opening even more doors for cats who will disregard any standard that was set before them. I don't know how you don't see how the two are connected.

nope, becasue then they will us ethe sampler for mixing tracks, and not samples.

LOL!!! You see what i'm saying? A fucking bar back too? I just said that as a joke earlier and it looks like they're way ahead of us.





I couldn't because I not only respect what we do more than that but I respect myself. If you play the undercutters game you do exactly what I've been talking about, you cheapen the service involved and make it easier to be cut yourself in the long run. I wouldn't want to work for a place that plays that game.

Isn't this what Scratch Live users used to be branded as? Wasn't SSL seen as the end of DJing as we knew it? Oh the irony.

I find it hard to draw a line in the sand so easily as to say auto sync is bad. Looping hasn't killed juggling, and hot cues haven't stopped DJs stickering vinyl. You're happy to watch waveforms for mixing and have an onscreen display of BPM and an interactive BPM shift as the pitch changes. It's like saying if you cross this line in the sand, you're a fake DJ... oh wait... if you cross THIS line, then you're a fake... ummm... this line? How many times does the line have to be moved?

Believe me - I hear what you're saying, but just can't isolate one feature as being that negative. It's you as a DJ - your music collection, your crowd reading abilities and technical skills that make you a truly great DJ. Auto sync will still sound like a car crash if he tracks being mixed just don't work.

this. is. a. mass. debate.

i still regularly have busters come to the booth and say things like 'oh you're using a laptop, they mix it for you'

its great because i can then turn around and say 'no man, this is all me, this program doesnt have that shit'

i've recently stopped using the master tempo buttons so people can hear when i'm nudging the track again - it might be a small fuck up on my part, but i think it brings back some character to the show

just my 2 centimetres

im not in the game of cutting other peoples feet from under them. u got the gig, u doin alright, the owner dont care. cool.

the owner comes to me and says what u think about djing, ur fucked. i will steal ur shit....


but if i cant convince the owner why theres a difference between me and the guy who uses auto stink.

obviosuly scratchworx didnt read shamnns posts..


scroll up buddy.

This all reminds me of DJs who use VDJ, hit Auto-Sync and still trainwreck. LOL

hey maybe we can be the doorguys too... i mean were gonna have all this time since u talentless fucks want this shit.
we can collect money, hit an air horn, hit on some fat ass sluts, do an interview on scratchworx.com, peel a banana, go valet some cars, get into fight with paris hiltons 1,343th boyfriend this year.

fuck it right?

no.... f you.

1,343rd LOL


take some english lessons too


peel the gum off the vip seats

just found this thread, read the first few posts.. anyways,, totally agree with the subject... no auto sync!

And when they can't beatmatch that shit it becomes obvious they aren't worth that DLed library anyway. But even that isn't a giveaway anyore if you give them a fancy new button.






That's exactly what I'm saying! What's left after beatmatching? You're just allowing for on more thing to become of less relevance than the next, and as I said beatmatching was the one tell left that couldn't be faked. It's not like a downloaded library or a pre-made mash, it's the one thing that still actually required skill. And it's one of the most BASIC components of Djing, what respect is any Dj going to have for this stuff if they can't even be bothered with that any more?

man, if that doesnt make sense.... nothing will. and if u cant say ok, i finally get it. ur a moron. and ur tryin to ruin something that we all love.

i cant be bothered to read all of this thread, its too damn long,, but, is there anyone on this thread acually in support of auto sync? if so, please name and shame...

see if people are too lazy to read a thread, just imagine what they will do in a booth :)

hahaha whats fucked up is i hit the auto-reply\bash button but the connection errored out...damn it

This is a really long thread and I paused on this quote above, so haven't had the time to read through the rest of it... but this one caught my eye for a big reason... DJing is NOT about technology!!! It never should be! The minute it becomes about who has the shiniest toys is the minute the art dies. The problem with the above statement is that basically it's saying that as long as you have the money to buy the technology, then you can be a great DJ, which we all know isn't true and shouldn't be true... Everyone on these boards complain about the undercutting snakes and wavies and that's exactly what features like auto-sync propagates! Even though there's nothing more boring than a mix done entirely with torq and auto-sync-beatmatch, there are tons of promoters who will overlook that and hire them just because they are cheap. Meanwhile DJs who have worked their asses off in order to increase their skill-set separating themselves from the human jukeboxes get passed up for gigs. In the end who suffers??? The end customer! Which brings me back to the quote... Auto-sync actually is the cause of poor customer experience... and all of us who have ever watched a laptop only DJ who presses two buttons to mix know that the end result is a very poor performance. I'm all for having great tools in any industry... the problem though is certain industries require us to limit certain tools in order to keep quality control... Not to mention, the more things you stuff into SSL, the more you have to worry about issues... SSL has always been great due to it's simplicity and quality of code.

I've already seen a few spots that just have a desktop loaded with music and running Virtual DJ all night long. It's a sad thing.

Adding Auto-Sync will pretty much alienate the professional DJs and cater to the wannabe DJs

NO AUTO-SYNC!!

/end thread

Sooooooo your saying feniks killed the art of djng with his while SL1 and Vinyl??? Or was it the rane watch and serato airforce 1's..hahaha just messin with ya feniks

i prefer to waste my time on the decks,, and rolling some bless.. which would explain my laziness while surfing the web ..

i know im just making a point.


fuck auto sync!

Henry im staaaaaarting to get the impression you may not be happy if serato puts in an auto-sync feature into scratchlive.....i think you should let someone know. hahaha

Yeah, stop wasting time on us, write your congressman!! :P

Damn it dont agree with me Socross im not agreeing with you your the bad guy here now go stand near someone else before i get hit with a rock.,....FUCK AUTO-SYNCH

Um, ok. to all it may concern, please don't throw rocks at mbezzle. There ya go, nice and safe like. Feel better?

bwahahaha

pchew pchew, pchew!

so if the addition of one feature ends your gig, how good were u to begin with?

A little bit, though not much

That's been my point all along - don't bother, unless you're in the "fuck auto sync" club, they don't want to hear it.

oh, um, fuck auto sync! (that way this post might actually be read :P)

It's not the fact that one feature would end our gig... because it wouldn't... it's the fact of which feature they're talking about. Auto-sync is the absolute WORST idea EVER to try and implement into SSL. Leave that horrid feature to the likes of other systems... don't ruin SSL with it!

how would it ruin SSL?

It's the one feature that promotes microwave DJing as being ok, and thus far, SSL is seen as the example to lead by which is why it's the standard.

For many people SL is the bridge between analog and digital.
By implementing auto sync that bridge would be destroyed.

Unlike other DVSs SL requires the user to be capable of some basic stuff.
I mean no digital but practical skills.
Think of it as an entrance fee or bouncer.
If your favorite place did not have that fee or bouncer and it gets run over by a whole bunch of "punks" you wouldn´t apreciate that either, would you?

This is an illusion. All serato requires is that you can move a pitch slider back and forth. I'm not saying that DJ's don't have any special skills (because they DO) I'm just saying I don't consider the ability to move a slider a special skill.

After seeing some of your Dj "tutorials" Socross I see why you're such an advocate of this crap. Anybody that buys Serato and still uses Virtual Dj instead obviously doesn't get it.


Later for anything you have to say on the subject.

Then what's with the self appointed guru vid on the wonders of a cross fader? LOL

Watchwww.youtube.com


The reason you don't see it as some special skill is because you don't do it!

Yep, I used Virtual DJ for a couple of years before I switched to Serato. BFD - it gives me a unique viewpoint on the subject. Now I only gig with SSL.

I made those videos becuase I saw a lot of the same questions being asked, and I figured it was easier to show someone than to tell them.

And, for the third time, I'm not advocating auto bpm, I'm simply saying it's already here so bitching about it and wringing your hands over what other Dj's are doing (or might do) is a waste of time.

So are you saying that moving a slider IS a special skill? And if you watched the video you just linked, it's all about sliders, knobs and switches - it uses an actual mixer! So...what's your point?

talking about messing up quotes *lol*

Like I said, you just don't get it and never will. You represent an entirely different league of Dj's (those who can't figure out a crossfader SMH)

Wow, you've got me pegged. I started with vinyl back in '91, and I heard this same debate when CD players got pitch control, and when people first started using their laptops. Every change is going to kill the industry, blah blah. It's a load of crap. So if you're saying THAT's what I don't get, then I'm happy to agree with you.

Actually yeah, moving a slider IS a special skill, if it weren't would we have the top calss scratchers we do today? The Q-berts of the world? Are you saying the party rockers like Jazzy jeff who work that turntable up and down don't require skill? You don't get it.

Beatmatching IS a special skill. If it isn't...why do you need a special button to do it for you? We should all just be able to do it right?

Damn this threw is blowing up!


AKIEM makes a lot of great points.

I for one say and will always say:


ITCH <-------- WANNA BE DJ'S | DJ'S ---------> SCRATCHLIVE

So, keep auto-sync in the wanna be DJ software.

So wait - the only thing that makes Q-bert what he is is his ability to move a slider? I'm pretty sure there's more to scratching (especially on his level) than that...

And you've missed my point once again. To beatmatch in serato, all you have to do is move a slider (the pitch slider on the turntable)- you don't even have to use headphones! I never said anything about scratching. My point is that serato is about 1mm away from auto beatmatching, so it might as well already have it. If you're against auto beatmatching, you should be against serato too.

And what if they DID put it in? Would you boycott serato and go back to vinyl? No way, you'd raise holy hell on the website and continue to use the product, albiet without using that feature.

And for the FOURTH time, I'm not saying they need to put it in serato, I don't care if they do or not. I'm just tired of hearing DJ's defending beatmatching like it's our secret gift or something. It's not, it's easy, get over it.

Apparently the dozens of Dj's that post their trainwreck disasters daily just aren't in on the little secret that beatmatching is so easy. Somebody please inform them so that we have perfect mixes posted on here from now on. It's that simple. The Youtube expert says so.

Also tell Q-Bert that his ability to move the slider AKA cross fader means nothing to his scratching.

hahah i just noticed the 1st thing he says is...these questions come in WAVES i get the same question over and over again but all in WAVES....waves = wavys hahah not takin sides. im just sayin

Hah, you just made my point! Even with auto bpm out there, there's still tons of trainwreck mixes on the web. So I guess auto bpm HASN'T made everone an instant expert! The sky isn't falling after all! YAY!

Oh, and don't let my opinions get you so ruffled - I'm DJ Nobody. I do this because I love it, and I've been doing it for a while. I'm no expert, but I know a thing or two about the craft. If you just want someone to agree with you because it makes you feel better about yourself or whatever, you've got plenty of that in this thread.

That's not what I said at all - I said there's MORE to it than moving a slider. Read your posts before you form an opinion, it saves a lot of heartache!

EXACTLY!! It hasn't made everyone an instant expert and that's what I've been saying from the get-go. Beatmatching is what sets the big boys (and girls) from the hobbyists. It's the one tell, it cannot be faked..... are you following me yet tutor? Serato does NOT have Auto-Sync on it, so no matter what it shows in these Dj's mixes... add Auto-Sync and what are you going to get?

Make sense yet guy?

Ummm....and my point has been all along that serato already has this - ALL you have to do is line up the transients at the top by moving a slider. Moving a slider is not that different than hitting a button. Therefore, serato pretty much already includes this feature.

No matter what you say, beatmatching on serato is WAY easier than doing it with vinyl. I'm simply pointing out that if you feel so strongly about auto bpm, you are a hipocrit unless you also feel strongly against serato.

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, you're not going to change my mind, just like I have no chance of changing yours. So, as hard as this may be, I think it's time we started arguing with other people. It's been...fun.

Whatver man, LOL



You do what you gotta do and have fun with your playtime videos, in the meantime I say keep the trainwrecks coming on this board, it's one way for these dudes to really face where they are with this shit. And then when they take a look at themselves and improve they will have that much more respect for the art behind it.

You think teaching a bunch of dudes to be lazy on Youtube helps the game. I think helping a bunch of dudes who come here with honest mixes identify where they're going wrong helps it tenfold more. Throw a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish... you know the rest.

Until you understand that you will never get where any of us are coming from with this.

+1 ^

This thread's on fire.

the future of DJing with auto-synch Watchwww.youtube.com

Wow dude, you just can't give it up. Heh, I guess I can't either! My opinion means nothing, I've stated as much, yet it still gets under your skin...interesting.

I'm all about DJ's improving their skills. I've made my points time and again on this thread, and you refuse to actually read them because them might not agree with yours. I actually think we're saying very similar things, but since I didn't say "fuck auto bpm" from the get-go you've let your anger or whatever get in the way of your comprehension.

1. If you area against auto beatmatching you should also be against serato
2. Beatmatching CAN be faked, that's what's got so many people angry!
3. Beatmatching is a small part of what makes us DJs, it is not the defining characteristic.
4. Auto bpm has been around for a long time, and it has not destroyed the industry, so crying about it now is a waste of time. Use it or not, it exists.

It's NOT already there! Not in SSL at least...



This thread is about a petition for not putting it IN SSL! So apparently you don't get it! Everyone is arguing to NOT put it in SSL! If you don't care about it then why are you arguing so vehemently for it?

I see lot's of contradictions...

Hey, good point - sorry for the hijack, that was kinda weak!

Looks around, Sees a heap of DJs with sand in their manginas.

Sorry, Any fool that can keep time and understand the concept can be taught to beatmatch, Stop treating it like some closely protected secret handed down from generation to generation at a ceremony involving virgin blood. It's not a special skill. It's simply a required skill, just like nascar drivers can instinctively dump a boot onto a clutch, and guitarists bend notes in penatonic riffs. Without it, your below average. But it ain't some smoke and mirrors trick. You ain't that special.

Any auto sync is still just that, an auto sync, it doesn't drop the next track with the kick lined up on the first beat of the bar, It doesn't baby scratch it in, you still have to actually mix.

I usually keep my mouth shut round here (Better to do that and let people think your an idiot than open it and prove it beyond all reasonable doubt). Mainly cus someone usually chimes in with my thoughts by the time I get to a thread. I'm not bagging on anyone, but I do see alot of "I had to learn the hard way, why make it easy, your not real without it" arguements. I even expected to see a "If auto sync comes out I'm dropping SSL" throw your toys outta the cot type statement.

I couldn't care for auto sync cus I simply like touching records. Same reason I went back to turnies from CDJs. I like touching records.

I think the real test of a DJ is their ability to rock a set on anything, be it Serato on 1200s with a 57, or CDs on Denon 2ks. I think the moment you have to rely on something in the software is when your losing your game.

When pios first came out with their BPM counter I got into the habit of letting the deck read it, then locking both decks in at the bpm on the screen. Thought I was the shit cus I could mix without headphones. Jump back on turnies, wooah, fuck, how do I do this again? Added black tape over the bpm counter on the decks and reminded myself how to beatmatch again. My point. I started using the pio BPM counter as a crutch, and it took a min to remember how to match records again.

Do I hate on pio for the counter knowing full well there are gonna be DJs/wavies/tryhards out there that simply can't spin on anything but? Nah. Its like the foundations for a building, My technique, altho not perfect, has a more solid grounding in mixing, and lets me understand mixing and music better. Which in turn. IMHO makes me a better DJ with real experience. And DJing is always gonna be something where years of experience shines through beyond technology.

I dunno, Just my 2 cents

I feel dumber for having read this thread.

How many microwave producers own an MPC-1000 or something similar or a software solution like Ableton, Cubase, Reason, etc.? Keep it real you sissies and play all of your own instruments daggone it ;)

it all makes sense
socross is that bubbling idiot i seen in the video on youtube. no wonder i was gettin frustrated with this guy...

socross ur the one that needs to give it up, u had like one friend who had ur back and he ran off with his tail between his legs...

thnx shamann.

and anyone else that wants to chime in like sloass... read the wole thread before u do.

See, I guess I look at this a little different. DJing used to a disipline. You had to spend countless hours everyday learning your sh*t. You had to learn how to mix. You had to learn how to scratch. AND you had to take your bullsh*t money from your bullsh*t dishwashing job to buy vinyl. That is too much disipline for the average person of today. Sorry I'm babbling!

My point is I don't mind the technological advances in DJing. As matter of fact I welcome them. But don't take away the core of what make a DJ special:

Mixing & Scratching.

Discipline??? You must have confused this with the 20th century :)

Blame DIY, battle records, and crossfader curve.

lol!!!

i know exactly what AMF is saying, if u wanted to be a dj, u had to put work in son.
now u got idiots complaining about why there isnt beat match in a program called scratch LIVE. and they want the easy way out.

this reminds me of those idiots that would keep hitting on a girl and she would keep saying NO, and they just dont get it...

next thing u know, they raped her and said she was all about them... oh that bitch wanted it. no she didnt. u couldnt handle No and kept pushing

need to have ur heads checked, and looking at socross and his video, reminds me of one of them...

sorry dood, i think i crossed that line... im just mad to think that some peopel actually want this

again.. sorry.

HAHAHAH that made me seriously LOL, I almost ROTF. Dude, if you're going to argue against me, at least read my posts (like you tell other people to do) and stop letting your anger over the words of some stranger on the internet get in your way of actually understanding the words in front of you. Man, you act like you're 14 - I know you're not, but wow.

Ah, I typed my last post before I saw this one. It's all good.

but u are kinda creepy. LOL

Haha, well, I finally agree with you!!! :P

This isn't the discussion we need to be having, people. I mean , like, when is Serato going to get its act together and come out with a full fledged Auto-Track-Selection function? I mean, I've been testing a beta version, but it keeps picking Gordon Lightfoot and Yani tracks, and I keep losing my floor...wtf?

What no hot scratch cues? I think a delayed 2-click twister wih a 2 1/2 somersault flare would go good right there...of course auto-sync'd

dj true idiot in the house evryone
give it up!!

DJ True Idiot, I like it. Along with auto-sync, a name change might help increase my bookings.

LOL @ Socross for thinking I'm getting mad in the slightest. Don't flatter yourself guy.

If it was the same idiots, then I wouldn't care. But it seem likes it's a new idiot everyday. Make DJing easier, then I have to deal with 2 or 3 new idiots everyday.

I'm not complaining in a sense of I feel they're gonna take work away from me. They're not (because they CAN'T). But the thought of someone taking their lappy, getting some software and saying they're a DJ just pisses me off.

don't worry, getting under your skin is not flattering to me at all, as it is clearly very easy to do :P

waaa
waaa


auto-sync

waa
waaaaa


shut the fuck up

i didnt think we could really continue to beat this dead horse.

BTW... anyone know of any good mp3 record pools?

Actually a guy who goes out and buys Serato just so he can use Virtual Dj is a joke to me. When I saw your video you reminded me of this guy who use to spin with us back in the day, always put on the funny voices, flip flopped all over the place and liked to show off his shiny toys... but nobody ever took him seriously, he worked his day job and with each new toy he bought, his skill level stayed the same. The years went by until the guy was still busting out the transformer scratch and juggling old Cash Money routines at parties for people who didn't give a shit. All that technology did nothing for him but make him lazy. I'm well up on technology my friend, I welcome it with open arms, but not at the expense of over saturating an already fucked up industry in favor of something that should be the most basic fundamentals of Djing. However if you're going to implement that stuff, put it into your product that's already geared towards the beginner/hobbyist. Leave the program that's geared towards those who want a less bells and whistles, more higher end product with theirs and we're all happy.



Seriously, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. You don't even really use the product yet you're in here arguing with 80% of it's posters. You're nothing but a caricature, a guy who puts on goofy voices for Youtubers who can't figure out how to hook up a turntable.

i agree

get an identity.

You're right, I didn't get under your skin at all :P

I bought Serato to use Serato. I made that video because some people were asking and I wanted to help out, and I'm a goofy guy who does comedy. All I gig with is SSL, I haven't played VDJ in two years dude - but you already knew all this stuff right, since you know me so well?

Oh, and who gives a rat's ass about me or what I gig with? You? If not, then why do you care so much about changing my mind or proving me wrong? Serioulsy man, you could have been doing so much with your time today, I know I could have been :D

Well since you're so concerned with how I spent my day I'm graduating Film school very early in the morning, could not go out on a long night, so this is what I did with my day before a very busy rest of the week/weekend. But After you left your farewell I was already typing my last note before I crossed the city to come home, then you come right back with "you just can't let it go" and remained here going back and forth with others while I was on the road. I'd say the words pot, kettle and black may have some place in this conversation. It's usually those who are wrapped up in the convos the most that like to pull the "tell 'em why you mad son" card.

That's net nerd shit man, I don't care about all that.

hug it out kids


just

hug it out

IBTL

socross, i think ur beat...

u dont know when to say when... do u ?

u dont have a girlfiend... do u

LOL I got no problem with him outside of this thread, we just don't see eye to eye in here. I don't know if I'll be able to take him seriously outside of it, but this difference of opinion stays in here, it's all good.

AUTOSYNC for the 6 part sampler only PLZ

next thing u know djs will be using that as to mix their songs.


so...


No to any kind of auto sync.

if you wanna ride, dont ride the white horse

if ya talk about auto sync, yer beating a dead horse

do some more drugs.

by the way

whatever happened to the dude who started this thread?
he hasnt reposted anything.

NO auto sync leave it to the inferior systems like VDJ and TRaktor. I will always pride myself on my skills. Everynight i play with my 1200's i get compliments on the fact i use the real shit. people respect it whether you wanna belive it or not.

Screw autosync for that how about being able to select it to one of the decks currently running? put the track thats in the deck on internal lets say and move the control surface to the sampler deck. I'd rather have that than some lame auto sync!

the software function debate has been kinda burnt out and nonconstructive, so i just wanted to add to the question about what would you do if your not beat matching in the booth and people saying there is alot more to djing than that

when i talk with my oldschool buddies, some who have been in the business for 40+ years and are now on radio and those who have been around 15+ years and are still working clubs...you sometimes hear peopel say 'he's an awsome technical mixer', or 'i think he's good all-around' etc...why would they say this? cause there IS alot more to djing than beatmatching or what tricks you do in the booth.

if im playing at a local club club as a resident, i get lazy and most of the time just do simple mixes that beat syncing would definately take the fun out of and make me look like a noob. i play hard for about an hour + 1/2 at peak time and thats about it.

when im playing a one off event as headliner or opener for a non dj act (hip hop artists show etc) or on tour, i play hard every single second im in the booth. its go-go-go ALL night long, bno matter how long the set is. usually they are around 2 hours or so depending on local laws. beat matching makes it fun personally, but the crowd would know the difference if i was or not. so what could you do if you arent beatmatching? its not like you have to sit around and hit on chicks all night. when i say im doing somethign everysecond, i mean that literally. i dont use samplers etc, i do it all manually. so rthat might mean searchign for song, grabbing a quick bite of it and doing somethign with it, then its off to the next trick or song or whatever. i dont have anythgn preplanned, i go with the flow all the time.

that leads this to the next point. going with the flow. if you have a premade set, your night will be quite a bit easier technically (technical dj), but the crowds response will definately not be as good as if you hit them with the right track at the right time for the mood. when i say this, let's go beyond individual tracks. if you wanna stand out from the other djs who play hit after hit, you need to play *difference* shit while keeping the energy and satisfaction higher than the top40 only plug and play dj style. (you know, play the top tracks at peak hours, blend one song into the other and spend your between time drinking and getting head in the booth).

you gotta mix *energy* not music. the songs are the strings on your guitar. a guitar player has the best strings, and plays the same chords as the next guy...but what he does with them and the emotion he adds to each strum or pick is his own and is what seperates him from the rest. PLAY your vinyl, be a musician and forget about the limited view of technical djing.

so one top of what it takes to SOUND different than the rest, there is still the BUSINESS of being a dj that takes time. its marketing yourself, not only outside but also to the patrons as some have mentioned...but that should not take alot of one on one time away from your tables.

you are constantly reassessing the crowd, dropping a quick sample of a vocal that changes the their attention to you so you can lay the buildup of what you are gonna do next...or add something to *slightly* change the atmposphere of the room. - thats working the room from a performance view. it literally will take every second you got of your set. you need to watch for any reaction the crowd has, even if its one table at the back of the room...that table will affect the rooms atmosphere in that small area.

that aside, if you are working in a night club - and this is expecially important for resident djs. if you want to keep your job and keep it getting paid double or triple what the standard for your town is...you need to prove your worth. doing what i mentioned above is a good foundation, but now you need to also rotate the floor, cater to small pockets of those who are spending more than average. you need to raise the sales per head higher than anyone else. you need to manipulate the room and the people, staff included to make this happen. THIS is what takes years and years to learn. you cannot be taught this and pick it up in a few months. you need to play hundreds and thousands of gigs to begin to be good at this.

in a residency position, if an owner hires their reg for $250 a night and the club, on average, does $5000 on xxxx night and then he hires you for $500+ as a 'headlining' act to shake things up. maybe he does this once or twice a month to add variety and put his club on the local map. if you come in and the sales are 30% higher, even though the tickets sold remain the same as their resident, he would be happy to hire you for the same price if iy happened every week! not only are the sales inclreasing but the buzz about his club being the place to be will increase.

so.....i mean to talk about being a good dj and one small issue like beat sync assisting those who just transition mix anyway, is really not a big deal. there is SO much more to it. again the argument comes out again about the digital world takign the art of djing away, its already ahppened.

there seem to be 3 different types or generations talking on this topic. all with the smae majority vote.

1. the brand new 'microwave' djs want beat sync cause that is somthing that they still find difficult and with it, they could all of a sudden sound just as good as the 'good' djs of today.

2. the working djs of today DONT want it, cause they feel threatened that the new guys will undercut them and steal their jobs and that it will take the art out of being a dj as they know it.

3. the oldschool djs who have already been threw this argument over the years as trends change and really don't care if the add it or not, cause they arent threatened by it and are very good at the other aspects of djing where this just isnt an issue...considering laptops are now the industry standard anyways.

we all need to understand and respect eachothers point of view on this. we all have legit points to be made, but those points are also perspectives based on peoples current abilities and understandings.

persoanally i think the more features they add the better the experienced dj will do vs the new guys, cause the ones in the middle don't have enough experience to stay a step ahead. beat matching USED to be a major factor in what seperated the good from the bad djs...but these days, there is just so much more to it that beatmatching is just somethign that comes automattically for the highly experienced anyways.

the guys whop spend a good deal of their energy keeping tracks lined up for an entire mix (30secs-2mins for me), wont have time or energy for much else...so of course they think this will take the art out of it, cause for them beat matching is such a big part of the art. for those who can line it up and just give the vinyl a nudge every 10 seconds or so already have the time and energy to do other things. so to that group, its not a big deal.

so to assume that beat syncing will noobify djing is just short-sighted, cause once you get past that phase of learning it really isnt something that you worry about anyways. its just something that helps create 'groups' of djs. if that 1 sinlge small tool is gonna cause people to think they will get undercut, or think that anyone will be able to do their job now then they really need to bring their head out of the cluds and realize how much they still need to learn.

we talk so much about our positions, but niether of the groups has talked about WHY they feel that way. if we sto[ aguing, and try to understand eachother then i think this topic may once again become constructive.

FYI: the little details about how to work a room, how to work the industry, agents, marketing, management etc are deails that peopel aren't going to share. these are things that you need to learn with experience. technical skills can be taught, and the djs who have made this their career and are making consistantly good money are doing *something* else the rest aren't.

learn what that is, become good at it and your views just may change on silly topics like this. its only a drop in the ocean. everythinks that being the beast at turntableisn these days is whats gonna get you to where you wanna be as a dj. let me tell you, that attitude comes from a lack of diversified experience. once you break the mould, you'll understand.

why do you suppose you never see any djs post here with their real names who are in that top bracket of gig and income earners? there are reasons for it and those directly relate to this topic


cheers

/yet another long winded book of a post :)

^^ anyone got the cliff notes version?

id anyone gonna fuckin read that ?

is*

Huh?

u just typed all the shit for nothing, noone is gonna read that LOL

it was something about a drop in the ocean i guess.

yea i know it was too long after i posted it i realized. but anyways, if you do find the energy to read it...it might actually shed som light in why we are just butting heads here and not being constructive and why some people care so much about beat sync vs those who want it vs those who really just dont care either way

"True courage is when you go to the dark side and come back to the light..."

After that the power is in your hands on how to use it...
It would be great for SL to have 2 selectable modes:

1)Bare bones mode (no wavefroms,no auto-syncs,no loops...nothing but the library and the 2 decks)
2)Sophisticated Mode (the latest shit in advanced mixing & controlling)

There's no need to stop SL from getting more & more sophisticated.

my 2 cents

ENOUGH SAID RIGHT THERE

that's perfect

I think they have done one better and offer two different whole platforms Scratch Live and ITCH.

I swear half of the problem here is people want the "Scratch LIVE" title on the software they use. why not just use the software that already has the features that you are looking for?

Do whatever floats your boat, with whatever software, seriously.....DJ with 2 Discmans if you want.

But please don't add the Auto-sinking feature to SL.....

It's a big point of difference between Traktor and SL......and one reason I'm always going to be more keen to hear a DJ using SL than Traktor.

It doesn't need to be included in SL. If anything Ableton should manage this need when the partnership comes to fruition. The Sample player is a different story however. But still, please.....

NO NO NO to Auto-sinking in SL.......let those who want that feature migrate to some other platform and keep SL positioned where it is.

I dont mind autosync in SL if its tied in with ableton live... otherwise im not really into the idea of having it in there.

Would definately be into being able to turn off waveforms and beatmatch indicator tho!

AUTO is a gimmick - nothing else
if you think its a tool you would go with Ableton

but in a two deck platform its a gimmick letting brand new kids think they are taking shortcuts

agreed in principle - i dont understand why youd have autosync with turntable control, but i know firsthand what ableton is capable of as it stands. to introduce some element of vinyl control into ableton could work out very well.

upshot: let ableton handle autosync, feed it into ssl.

AKIEM - ITCH and Scratch Live are 2 different types of product. SSL gives DJs regular vinyl feel from existing analog and CD decks with all that is good in the digital world. ITCH however provides new hardware with all the software features necessary for DJing. I don't feel that ITCH and SSL should have different features, just because the hardware they use is different. I have no doubt that we'll see separate units arriving much like single CD decks that are driven by ITCH, rather than using a timecode CD to drive SSL. It's just a different approach, but one shouldn't be feature weak because it's not using vinyl.

I do like the barebones mode though, or the option to disable particular features depending on how you want to interact with your computer.

If they are different types of product, why shouldnt they have different feature sets? With separate platforms you have the opportunity to have separate focuses, more legs to stand on.

With different focuses you gain efficiency. If a feature is more easily implemented in one system, why waste energy/performance trying to get it to fit in the other system?

I dont suggest that one should be feature week, they should both just be feature different. Stability through diversity.

I agree that we will see CDJ like midi controllers for ITCH that dont have to mess with control signal. I would imagine that most CD DJs would switch to this platform since it would hardly make sense to use a CD control signal anymore. And at the base of so many user disagreements here is the wants and needs of Vinyl Control verse Digital Control. Much of that could go away with the divergence of platforms.

What is the purpose of two softwares? Is it just a way to go around Rane not wanting to make controllers? I dont believe so. Even if that were the case you, now have an opportunity to have separate focuses.

Can't believe you guys are still arguing about this.. lol

For those DJ's who actually know how to beatmix/blend & took the time out to learn (myself included) there is bad news. From what I have seen in the clubs recently Tracktor is out selling or replacing Serato and those newbie DJ's are doing a decent if not an awesome job with the auto sync feature.

It's seems right now everybody wants to be or is a DJ & Tracktor is their answer. The reasons I find guys choose Traktor over Serato is:
* BPM Sync
* it's just as stable as Serato
* Sounds better than the SL1
* It is cheaper.

I completely agree with 7G's suggestion of two modes.

At the end of day a newbie who has no idea how to mix can easily record an experienced DJ's set and drop it exactly the same way using Tracktor.

i only just joined in :)

Well in that case, knock yourself out :)

Actually, i'm gonna add this..

I often witness people on their Traktor and sync at the radio. Most of the time they let the incoming track go at a completely stupid time.. They then hit sync, yes the beats are on but the tracks are not really rolling together at all. I look at them nodding their heads and think, you poor sod.

So give these jokers their beat sync.. They will still fuck up their mix anyways..

Let them have cake!

I agree with you MK 1, if you don't know how & when to use the beat sync the results will sound cuffed. The same goes for the wave forms in Serato.

* knocks self out * (j/k)

you know! i heard someone the other day using beat sync tools, and it was just diabolical, sure, it was beatmatched but it was off bar.

cake or death?

err, cake please :)

aah death, you said death first.

i ordered the chicken (taste of human)

'ein minuten bitte, ich habe einen kleinen problemo mit deso religioni'

dont you just love izzard.

hahahahahahaha.. I do I do..

*stops tracking the dead horse beating*

i thought it was eddie izzard quoting but cool :)

hahaha......I love that skit!

anything that u guys are sayign right now, has been said...


READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE US sPEAK.

Im on chapter 12 right now chapters 1 - 6 were good, 7 through 10 were a bit predictable and 11 and 12 were mostly flashbacks and recaps.......henry does Serato impliment auto-synch in the end of this book cause i dont think ill have the time to finish it.

haha i hope not.

GOOD!! that would be a really sad ending

remember back in the day when ya had a broken record?

you'd try to use it and justify not bailing on it.
and then you realize that people just don't understand why you keep the broken record. i mean it doesn't affect your day to day but ya wanna keep bitching every fuckin day that even thought its a broken record... you just can't stop talking about how you don't want Auto-Sync in Serato.

as many times as they have said that SERATO will never have auto sync?
but you just keep complaining.


at this point, i wish it had autosync just so we could get that new record and throw out this broken one.

You forget that with SL when the record breaks it goes into internal mode and keeps going

THIS THREAD IS SOOOO LLLOOONNNGGG so forgive if i am repeating some on elses point of view. I scanned thru some of it, here's my take. NO to auto sync. For this reason alone, a club owner see's some good lookin hot guy/girl and offers them your job based on how good lookin they are cause all they have to do is stand in the booth and let technology do it all(beatmatch juggle scratch) for them.

i bey wilkins cant mix kool-aid and thats why he wants the auto sync.

all I know is robots can make art

and figuring out what song to play next (despite the requests)
is not that great of a skill ether

Acutully it would be hard to determine what song to play next because you would need to analise your auidence. If you are just determing what to play by time you could have a packed club at 9pm stuck with throw away tracks and an empty club at midnight getting all heaters, also they wouldnt know if a song wasnt working because it wouldnt know if the dancefloor was packed or empty (I know it was mentioned earlier it can moniter the dance floor but you would have to consider the cost of automating an entire club it would be cheaper to pay a dj since this all comes down to cost anway). Also it would not know individual situations such as randomly having a club full of all old people or under 21s or all mexicans or asians, thugs yuppies ect ect

point five or seven cameras at the dance floor. The cameras could monitor the number of people and the amount of movement on the floor. The computer could use a tracking system or even facial recognition to determine who is on the floor. It would access a data base of that persons preferences, playlists, favorites, and past reactions.

The computer knows when closing is, what the hotest tracks are, BPM, Key, lyrics, can mix in a random classic, a birthday favorite. Is it really all that hard?

The computer can learn over time.

It could also take text requests, and reply with shit like "Ive got that on the next deck" "I will try to work it in" "fuck off bitch"

the technology exists, once its developed it will be cheaper then paying some dumb-ass $300 a night.

this is the future, it will happen, you must embrace, and adapt

i can't
i want that in a ready made container also.

why dont u just make everythign in acid and ableton ?

:)

i didnt know i could upload kool aid to my computer. is that what we're talking about?

actually, i can barely use ACID and have NO CLUE how to use ableton.
i looked at it one time and said, "nope, dont need that"

SERATO is pretty much my extent of computer expertise. i really dont want a shit load of extra functions. i get confused by too many buttons. i cant even work a cdj w/o sweating bullets. auto sync would be cool for long blends like we used to do back in the day. i'm not really for it (or against it). i have no opinion

then why bother sayin anything ?

allow me to quote myself from yesterday






and then someone said something that i felt like commenting on...
and then i made another comment about beating a dead horse that was passed right up.

and then someone questioned my kool aid making skills or lack thereof.

so

that why i bothered saying anything.


i just thought it rather funny that people want functions but are so angry about the thought of an auto sync when i'm sure it has been mentioned that it will never happen.

also, i know how to make kool aid now members.tripod.com

some people just like to hear the sound of their own voice.

some go one step further and become djs lol

i could see auto sync being ok rockin 4 decks. Then again if your gonna step up and use 4 decks your skills should be on point anyway and beat matching should be like a second language to you. besides how the hell can you walk into a spot with ur chin up mixing a 4 TT set then press a button. I mean shit if thats the case why bother practicing just click sync track then stand there and look hard

if u cant rock 4 decks by urself, u should do it or ask for it.

hey, wheres that horse ?



NO TO AUTO SYNC

we're beating the dead horse over in the
"where's a good mp3 record pool thread"


next, we'll be baseball batting it in the

"SL3 - No discount for SL1/57 owners" thread

LOL

NO TO AUTO SINK

boo hoo. i said this was old before you guys were born... so there.

i hope we killed this thread.

Isnt it a petition?

i dunno, i so tired.

doign music video sucks the life out of u.

sorry... im bored :-p

You're too late, better start planning for retirement, this has been out for a while now
www.internationaldanceparty.com

Welcome your new robotic overlords.

watch you been smokin Akiem?

ok i know this looks long, but i have a point --

**********************************************************************
**********************************
**********************************************************************
**********************************

There have been some Really valid concerns about the autosync feature, and It may not seem like it, but in fact -- this may very well be the single most important topic to be on this board.

i actually read this for the better part of an hour, and i agree with the implementation of new technologies in the "performers" theater, however it's obvious that this topic could not be more beaten into submission. There is valid points on both sides indeed.

now, i'll be very specific..

myself, i started djing when i was 15 in Toronto, and to do that in the mid 90's was a daunting task - i was surrounded by possibly the single largest cash of world class dj's ever, - and making an impact performing was near impossible, i knew i had to compete with the "old schoolers" you speak of, and learning the proper craft would be essential, regardless of the technologies! -- 'we all watched them come out, piece by piece', Holey SHIT - Pitch control on a cd player?! WHAT?! wow. -- i knew then - as i know now - the bottom line is performance!

this is a topic that came up in '93 as it will come up again in 2023
No, cd's and auto this-and-that will ever replace a dj - furthermore remember, there's 2 completely different mindsets about it - the "club" environment (where people face each other and entertain themselves) ..and the "rave" environment (where people face the performer, and pay specifically for that talent) Totally different categories.

i myself, am most-Definitely a Turntablist. i don't expect every other dj to go though the same rigorous - eat, shit and sleep training i did, but i do expect people to try. There was a certain satisfaction to being handed $500 for 1 1/2 hours of work, knowing that the entire performance was essentially unbeatable and unique.

[ i, (like many dj's will agree) - spent most of that money on endless crates of records that practically need their own postal code in my basement now ] anyway,

my point -

THERE WAS a time when i would have TOTALLY sided with the NO SYNC policy, as i still essentially do, however, it wasn't so long ago when i actually had a chance to test the --- " but can you scratch with it? ~serato~ " ..myself coming from a time when there wasn't a single dj in sight that would even think of changing their game - i wasn't sold myself until my hand felt that near-zero latency, and i ripped one of the best sessions i can remember - i was sold - sold sold sold - i went from being a hater of new techs - to a promoter of Serato in 1.39 seconds flat.

i was stone-cold proven wrong, that technology would ever pierce the Tried-Test-and True -- 2 Turntables, 1 mixer - No Bullshit - mentality. and ever since, i've engulfed every piece of 'NEW' i can into my performance. SANS-Auto-shit.

so, that being said - i encourage people to use what works for them, however, i will never side with people who want to take short cuts, and i'm sorry, but i will never forget why i started this in the first place - I WILL NEVER HIT AUTO SYNC - they can put it in the program if they'd like - but i, for one, will never respect those who use it -- UNLESSSS -- ITS FOR SOME CRAZY - Multi layered idea that goes above and beyond the other-wise WORK FOR IT - performance.

DJing is a craft, there's no blurring the lines here - its definitely a matter of personal pride rather than prohibition, The way of the DJ-entertainer was paved by REAL SHOWMEN ( and a few brave women ) DOn't Tarnish the image by just faking it!, if you're going to stand up there' BE SERIOUS!, Learn the craft, and put on a proper show! As the years pass by, you'll have pride in the fact that you Never hit that AutoSync Button, 'even if it's there~ -- 'And you'll realize that a tiny amount of error is HUMAN, and SEXY. remember it's YOU who's being sold, not the computer, SHOW THEM THAT.

regardless of whatever we tinker with on stage, your head should be UP at all times, you should be cheering with the crowd and loving what you do.

AutoSync = ok, its inevitable, i'm not afraid of it. I'm confident true performers will always shine above the equipment they use.

sorry i know that was long, but i hope i made my point,
. it's in YOU, not the equipment - it never will be.

my 3 cents.

well put!

I don't see what the big deal is. For those who don't want to use it, simply don't use it. For those that want to use it to be more creative, more power to them. And for those who think it will help them land a gig cuz they can't mix, they'll be fired after the train wreck transition in dj's or the sound cutting out.

EVERYBODY GET OFF THE FUCKIN FORUM GO PRACTICE!!
Then you won't need Auto-Sync...





























































































More than half of your message contains capital letters. To many forum users, this means you are SHOUTING your message, and is considered to be bad forum etiquette. Please consider editing your message so that there are fewer capital letters.

Well let me try to help you understand... Auto-sync is the same thing as Auto-tune. Now every nit-wit can be a singer if they want to be. And the cream does NOT rise to the top.

I can go on, but I'm not cause I don't want everyone to get mad at me again. lol.

And Dj Dynamite... right on!

I dont want auto-sync BUT if that statment was true wouldnt the battle already be lost since several cd players and tractor already feature Auto-synch

nice comparison amf.... who needs skills anymore??? and this is why america is lazy and obese and also in the credit crunch.... effort shouldn't be needed anymore or even trying to put effort.

great society we are creating! i thought technology was supposed to be for the better.

I don't know if you are trying to be sarcastic with this statement or not... but I agree with it!

Its true, there is no replacing the human performance. Auto-sync is no danger at all when people want to see a human being perform a skill- turntablism.

which is an entirely different situation from dance club party and such

The crowd does not give a rats ass or even understand that the computer is, or is not matching beats for you. They dont know, cant comprehend and dont even care about that shit. There is a whole civilization of people who just want to drink and simulate sex acts to a beat. They just do not give a fuck about any DJ performance. Good DJ means he played their favorite song, looked real cool, or plays in a band, or dates someone on tv.

Auto-sync is part of a trajectory that ends with there being no DJ. It wont be long, before some company is going to offer "song selection assistance". A list of songs pops up with choices auto-selected according to bpm, according to key, according to rating, and whatever else. Your going to have kids saying shit like "I fucking killed it last night, all I had to do was play the auto-select top choice all night!" And then kids are going to be crying for 'auto-select-loading' - "Dude why cant the song just load for me, it will give me so much more time to tweak effects and pump my fist! No one on the dance floor gives a rats ass about who choses the next song!"

Maybe in the end you pay a guy to stand in the booth, do a dumb ass dance and be the alfa male for bitches trying to get in the booth.

Back before digital, if you told someone that a computer program is going to match beats for you - "what, a spindle full of drop down records, and computer listens to the beats and adjusts the pitch? it will never happen!"

www.wired.com

This may very well be the most important debate on the forum as said. Serato is already blamed for killing vinyl and such. Anything put in SSL legitimizes it, it a professional stamp of approval. If it were put in, we may look back historically and call it the point what lead to the demise of the DJ.

Is SSL a tool for DJs to use, or program to do the work of a DJ?

auto-mix, auto-select, auto-effects, what would be left for you to do? network? talk to chicks? go to the bathroom? snort some coke? what?

i'm on your side :)

Cool!

I just thought of the best solution. How about Rane make an auto-sync plugin called "Wavie". So the people who buy the plugin know what they are.

Got d*mn I'm a genius.

there is a point where you are paid or atleast up there doing your thing for both the money and for the interest, joy, and profession of rocking the party..... the majority of people that want auto sync are saying, lets use this time for other things or that "i'm too lazy to do something that isn't a big deal... aka beatmatch".

The real deal here is that live production is the next new thing and is already here with people like enferno, etc. thats the next real thing to hit, as "people want to provide more remix production on the fly".... well once again, comes the argument about, no one cares of you or the computer beatmatch, people just want to hear their top40 songs and rock out with the hottest chick in the club...

So the evolution will come where we will have the computer doing "auto-production" and making the music for us.... and at the same time, the people in the audience will still be happy as long as the music is what they want, hopefully.

So taking it to the next level and "producing while being live" isn't really anything new, but ill tell you one thing, i still have more fun blending records with a pitch, with my hands, and so forth on the fly then tapping in some keys on my oxygen8 midi controller.

Enferno's performances are cool and all, but most people might get annoyed or lose interest with his work as the song might be too long after he is adding to it, or some people might not like his remix taste and just want the original track.....

Ill tell you one thing, the simplicity of the original dj (just blending tracks together with some flavor and rhythm ) will come back to be the standard in the future. It's not about how many bells and whistles you can add to something, we are losing focus on the real deal here... the MUSIC!!!!

-Ricky

Now the question remains, should they name the feature after the doll house divas or will it just be understood that they spearheaded the movment

I think what some people aren't getting is that it's not about fears of technology replacing the Dj, it's about contributing to the cheapening of a scene, and it's about cheapening a program that doesn't need it to "stay competitive".

Serato is doing just fine without it and will continue to have an arsenal of supporters who prefer to have a sturdy, dedicated program rather than every bell and whistle bogging it down just include the hobbyist. Those of you so concerned with having all the features that the "other guys have" are going to jump ship anyway as soon as someone else includes a new whistle (the Traktor Duo thread was a good indication, look how many flip flopped within mere days due to SL3 coming out within a week). For those of us who don't need to have the same toys the other kids do, we don't want an all in one system, they have Itch for that, leave that type of stuff over there. I work on some very high end gear (not Dj consumer stuff, but real pro audio in the vein of the original SSL [Solid State Logic... and no I'm not talking a cracked plug in] and other insanely expensive, but worth it stuff) And we use the gear we do because it's built with a specific need, stays true to that and is reliable because of it.


THAT is my main concern. But since we were talking what Auto-Sync it self contributes to the scene, I added that into my debates. Some however can't comprehend and chalk it up to an old fogey, keep it realer "crying" because he doesn't want to adapt. I find that funny coming from cats who didn't even try Serato until years later than a lot of us saying "fuck auto-sync" (I was following Serato news before they even released the first Serato Scratch Live, I was that excited about the new technology so fuck what you think on that)


Some of you won't recognize this because you're in very niche markets, but for those of us that play in a general/top 40/mainstream market these kinds of solutions drastically reduce the rates of a Dj because you have those that don't care becoming more and more abundant and when they're so disconnected from the real work, time, energy and knowledge it SHOULD take to become a Dj, standard rates are thrown out the window. The more standard rates are thrown out the window, the more owners know they can get away with paying peanuts so as long as a "Dj" can go through the motions and do it for half price, that's their man.

A lot of you are using the "cue points didn't kill Djing so why should this" Are you really that serious? Weak argument. Cue points and loops are a creative thing, they're not a technical thing. Us taking advantage of that creative app and being more creative with it ourselves is different than taking a technical/fundamental element of Djing and completely eliminating it.

But if you want to talk about digital Dj solutions as a whole, yes it cheapened the scene. bottom line, all programs I don't care which one. By cheapening the scene I mean cheapend the going rate and overall respect for a Dj. And if you don't see that you really aren't out there.

You still have very capable Dj's, but you also have the oher guy I was talking about. The guy who bought his hard drive from ebay, copied a set list, and hit up CC and is overnight Dj material. Because of these solutions it's made it much easier for those that dabble to forego the process that used to be involved in specializing in our field, they can provide the employer with services for cheaper than those of us that do it by the book because they don't have the same investment into it (time, money on records/cd's etc)

Auto-Sync is one more thing to completely skip and if you don't see that contributing to the cheapening of the scene i don't know what to tell you.

Serato is the last man standing, by not implementing the feature (I believe they said they never would, hopefully they stick to that) they're basically saying fuck you to that mentality... we can make it more conveniant for you to be creative, but you still gotta do your job. It's that kind of protest that keeps at least some dignity in the scene that has gone all to shit. If Serato were to give in for the sake of competition it would be like saying "forget what we said, it's okay now because everyone else is doing it" and eventually beatmatching is yet another thing phased out of Djing. Maybe not by you, definitely not by me, but the new generation coming in thinking that a beat match button is the norm, sooner or later they're going to be the majority and passing the torch to another generation of clueless individuals.

If we allow options (Itch -> go nuts... Serato -> no thank you) it may encourage the same new generation to explore the different aspects of our culture rather than just assimilate.


It was long I know, I read deep into this stuff, I know. But I've been doing this since I was ten and the shit is literally in my blood (I'm second generation) so what may not be important to the hobbyist, is important to me on a level that they could never understand.


To summarize.

Autosync in Serato?

NO!

Everybody else? I don't use your product so I don't care, just please don't bring that shit over here.

Autosync in general?

1) Make it even faster for them (the overnight Dj), and they'll make it even cheaper for you, me and everything else involved inthe scene.

2) Fuck an Auto-Sync Dj, and fuck those that encourage it.

Exactly.... how else are we supposed to mark the record for cue points for a library of 30,000 tracks???? we need a digital solution to the digital files.

BEST THING SAID IN THIS THREAD....the argument isnt about the technology or the busniess ect, its about the culture. Noone can really argue with this post. Case closed end of disscussion

THANK YOU SHAMANN.

Whenever I make it to Canada, I owe you bottle for that post.

img.photobucket.com

If you guys are such purists, you should sell your SL1, TTM57s, SL3's, and go back to vinyl.

I just don't get this arguement

I might if i could still find music on wax(smart ass)

i would if i was 10 times stronger and could carry 3 crates on one arm

Wilkins, ironically I think you repeatedly mentioning a dead horse has become more of a dead horse than this conversation.


I think people beat the mash-up threads like a dead horse, you don't see me in every single one of them saying "dead horse, dead horse" for three days straight, which is only contributing to them staying on the first page.

SMH

oh ok....

Akiem made a great point before,

i have from the beginning -- and always will - dj FOR THE OTHER DJ's (and promoters) In the venue - because YES - essentially the crowd has no idea whats going on - and like i said (up) above - it's more a matter of pride then so much The equipment your playing on - it was like that when i started 15 years ago - and it's still like that now - HOWEVER -

Dj Shamann -- you said it best! - Cheers!

i remember getting made fun of in the early 90's when i used to bring my little 2 button - 4 bay (on the fly) ECLER Sampler - when i played out - but, due to the fact that there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING automatic in dj land then - it was technology that the "oldschoolers" didn't like - period.

but, 'however much i defended it - they were, In the end --Right--
the entire north-american scene Imploded, and i went from getting $1000 + a weekend - to Fuck ALL - and thats not because i started to Suck - or my tracks were bad - it's SIMPLY because there was a whole new Cash of dj's that would do 'Essentially' (in the eyes of the promoters and club owners) the same thing i did - and they would do it for FREE or 50 buks! - fuckin' bitches - and THAT was from the fact that (like i said above) - they didn't have to spend $300 a week to buy new vinyl - they could just copy some shit, and throw it on CD - and Go on about sound quality - while us record users, were dinosaurs. 'There were many fights about it back then. (it's not like it doesn't matter! - that was my bread and butter, i worked God Damn hard for!, and it was ripped out from underneath me by a bunch of cocky fucks with some .5 $ cd's .. and now they regret it too...... )

look what happened - It's not the super power it used to be - Everyone became disinterested- even the club owners themselves jumped on the train- and said Shit - i can do this too - i don't need ANY dj's ...
fuckin' Technology absolutely Played A HUGE part in the demise and cheapening of the true performer.

Turntable = instrument, direct tactile musical influence and control.
CD player = Playback technology - not an instrument.
Auto Sync = i'm not EVEN going to start!

but --- i am confident - we will rise again! - people will eventually realize that the Human Element of the entertainment was the most important part - BUT .. and i mean BUT! - that is oNLy if people PROVE IT - like i had to - they must learn the craft and become vigilant themselves about doing it right.

Fuk, theres some Heat in the air in here,

I'm still shocked when i go to a venue - and the cd players are closer to the mixer - then the turntables! .. fuck that wrenches me.

how ironic?
or is it, i'm being a hypocrite?

either way, i'm not here anymore to make a new valid point.

i'm here just like everyone else... to keep saying the same shit over
and
over
and
over
lather
rinse
repeat

NO TO AUTO SYNC.

+1

Maybe we should require a vote from everyone that logs into this forum. I would like to know how many Serato users here actually want this feature.

Do you think auto sync would have to implemented for a third virtual deck? Or say when Serableton eventuates? Or maybe Serato will leave that bit for Ableton,

Deck 1 & Deck 2
Output track to ableton channel
Use abletons new looper tool take a snapshot of the decks
which keeps in time with the vinyl thanks to ableton being able to read the timecode movements of serato

www.ableton.com

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