Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Hi Serato, this is not working, we have to breakup...(and it's only been a week)

pd_C 9:47 AM - 28 July, 2014
I am sorry, your promises sound good, but i'm sure that you can't accomplish them or, at least, be at the espectations...

I bought a DDJ SR controler 2 weeks ago, i was excited about the Serato DJ "new" environment, it seemed "more" professional, and seamless than Virtual DJ (that i've been using for the last 10 years, and yes, i also used Atomix)...

But girl, you can't beatmatch a song that don't start with a kick, you can't beatmatch a trance (and previously flawlessly matched) track at 151 bmp, you can' even mark the song start "right"... And you messed my already marked firsts cues !!

And, really, do i have to make a full library of all my tunes, just in the case i have to search them? How it's possible that you cannot "filesearch" in browse mode?

I don't have time for that, all my music have benn played already, i make Folders, not "crates", i make playlists... not "that other thing"... I store them in an externat USB 3.0... but HOW?? you get stuck if i plug also my mouse??! You can't handle your drivers already? So i have to power on the controller, open serato, then plug the mouse...? LoL

Last night i had a gig, the afternoon i bought a controller license for Virtual DJ 8. It worked wonders, as it did previously the 7 version, the LE version, and the CUE version that came with my Numark Total Control... Flaw-less !!

Maybe in a couple of years or so i come back to have a cup of coffe with you, to see how things are going on your side, but for a GiG? Sorry but no. You are not at that level.

Just for your info, Serato, i've beeng dj'jing since more that 20 years ago, with turntables on my first weekly radio program, then CDs, then computers, then controllers, then all back toghether, and i don't want to spend time "preparinng, analizing, beat-gridding, re-crating..." i just want to make people have fun while i am having it too: Playing Music.

Bye bye, sincerely,

Carles
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:13 AM - 28 July, 2014
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
Davideon 11:27 AM - 28 July, 2014
Quote:
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
pd_C 4:00 PM - 28 July, 2014
Ha ha and ha, Spanky and BBD

Don't let the door hit YOU as I close it
Deejae Smooth 10:40 PM - 28 July, 2014
I've been using Serato products on various Macbook Pros for 5 years (all the versions; SSL, Itch, Dj, etc.); numerous controllers, turntables, vinyl control and cd control discs, dicers, etc, etc.

Never run into the problems you're talking about. The only thing I think you can legitimately stick on Serato DJ is that the grid analysis isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Other than that, it's spot on for me.

Just sayin.. :)
Serato, Forum Moderator
Jason.S 12:13 AM - 29 July, 2014
pd_C,

If you are having technical issues like this we suggest opening a help request here; support.serato.com but that would be up to you if you would like to let us know obviously. We have users happily jamming on the SR with our latest builds so we are always keen to look into any issues you may be having.

Cheers,

Jason.
pd_C 1:41 AM - 29 July, 2014
I think that the beatmach - beatgrid issue is vastly known and commented, as i've read...

I think that random "no sound" from my DDJ-SR depending on wich USB port I plug the mouse or the controller, or even the order it's not a "technical issue", it's a beta flaw that can't happen.

I think that the "messed" first cue on the tunes that i tried to analyse and then I re-used in Virtual DJ maybe it's an issue, but that also, i don't think it does matter.

I have played music for years, i have been messing with computers and programs for years, and i understand that you listen to your customers, but those "issues" cannot happen on a *paid* program outside of a beta release. It can't be only me that notice that.

Maybe on Serato DJ 3.0 all that is solved, but then again, i will have no time to "create" a library and i will just need to play random files from my external HD(s), as always have been done.

But thanks for reading, that denotes efford to improve at least.

Carles
haze324 1:52 AM - 29 July, 2014
I have a DDJ-SR, use it with a 2011 Macbook running snow leopard and I have ZERO issues. I've also either owned or played at residencies that have the following equipment. Rane 62, 57, SL4, NS7, NS6, DDJ-S1, VCI-300, and an S4 and VCI-100 an Audio 8 with traktor and I have none of the issues you mentioned.
deejdave 5:17 AM - 29 July, 2014
This is clearly just another instance of user error.

Quote:
It can't be only me that notice that.


I am not sure if you are picking up the clues that are being dropped by the members here but it certainly seems that way. I have never experienced ANY of the issues you speak of on any of my gear and let's just say I own quite a bit.

I strictly use external HDD's but we definitely differ in that I am all about organization and preparation. I would NEVER say I know best and you must do as I do but I will remind we are the ones who are having no issues so perhaps there is room for improvement outside of Serato as well................ or not.


You do NOT need to analyze prior to playing a file. Serato handles the files in this manner to ensure the files are good quality prior to playing live. This is a professional DJ solution and VDJ is more of a consumer application. While it is good for what it is they are two different animals. When dealing with a Professional DJ application there are certain standards in which the files that are played on it must meet. THIS is why you should analyze prior to playing. You make it sound like you are doing the actual analyzing. Simply analyze your entire HDD if you wish and the files will be analyzed for Serato for good being the info stores to the files themselves.

Again this whole thing (as well as Serato) works better for the prepared & organized type. Perhaps this is not what you are looking for in which case I would much rather see you head back to VDJ and bee happy than Serato change the way they do things and be ANYTHING like VDJ. They got to where they are for a reason. You had those expectations (of Serato) for a reason. You heard certain things about an application yet you experienced something different. Then to top it off you explained what happened and everyone is saying they don't have the same issues ...............................it is probably safe to assume it is NOT everyone else who is wrong here agreed?

Either way good luck.
Deejae Smooth 1:37 PM - 29 July, 2014
I would have to echo deejdave on one key point. You need to spend time with Serato analyzing and preparing your library and crates before you ever go to a gig. I spend hours every Saturday afternoon adding new stuff, playing each one to make sure there are no problems, the grid is correct, etc.

Quote:
Again this whole thing (as well as Serato) works better for the prepared & organized type.
Draven1327 3:04 PM - 29 July, 2014
no offense but if you ave been spinning for as long as you say how can you want to bypass prep time?? i have friends who i am teaching to spin and they are quickly outgrowing vdj pro. they started on it because the learning curve was easy and all they ha to do was throw a new song in and play. but now they are getting a few songs that don't analyse perfectly so their sync is off and sounds like shit. they are starting to see the importance of prep and setup.

i get it for you serato doesn't work perfectly ...yet. but (i will give you benefit of the doubt) when you start with serato you have to prep just like you did way back when you put stickers on records and listen to them 5-10 times before you knew where they would fit in a mix. how did you ever get into the mix without prepping your records??? did you always play random records on your "weekly radio show"

and if your biggest gripe is being lazy to spend a few hours to make crates, look up scratchtools by konix. i've been using it for years, since the 57 first came out. id tell you exactly how it works but i wont waste my time if your going to be too lazy to put in work.
jprime 3:49 PM - 29 July, 2014
What a weird thread....reeks of user error, yet user seems to have experience...

color me baffled
pd_C 3:54 PM - 29 July, 2014
Hi Draven, and just that long post deserves an answer, like deejdave.

First of all let me clarify that my phrase "play random music" was too vague.
With that i meant to play whatever the tune i want in the moment i want to, spread in my Hds and just seeing the mood of the crew or the listeners (i don't do that much radio lately and the FM now got a diferent soft for all... so i plug my laptop as an external source)

I have been preparing all my "digital" music from long time, that is maybe what i feel more "boring" again. I have ripped my own CDs at max quality, i mp3 tag them correctly, i trhow them on VDJ when i play them for the first time, they get beatmatched, Keyed and "first cued", let's say 95% of the times correctly. That have been happenning from years ago.
For so long when the Fraunhower mpeg layer 3 was private, and the free version only allowed 128 kbps... From then on, that's time.
I have a humble 500 cd's collection "for play", not the private listen one, and some Singles and LPs just for the pleasure to hear them in my home hi-fi.

I use to listen the tunes in CDs or digital prior to gigs, radio programs and so. That is a must, as you note it.

Doing that incrementally for years, makes that maybe i only have to add 5-25 themes a week (at most)... To do it all again (for let's say 20.000 themes), that's true, it gives me sort of headhache.

Maybe there is a better way to do it all toguether and "the right" way, i never heard of that Scratchtools that you mention, maybe that helps...

As i said i tried to go into Serato. I started to create crates (i've never created crates before, i use folders, or virtual folders if you like to use them...) from my more used music, compilations and "must play" for a pub on a weekend, let's say the commercial tier.

I did a sort of 500 tunes at most.
I've found that almos 50% of the tracks where bad beatmatched and gridded.
I've found that some high BPM track like a common "Streamline by Newton" (trance line) can't even be beatmatched and just shows a 74 bpm...
I've found that the "auto-gain" don't work as i espected...
I've found too that the "first cue" was set incorrectly...

That also summed when i went back to VDJ 8 and saw that all the tunes "re-analyzed" with serato had the initial cue and the first grid moved *wrong* a bit earlier... (you know that all that info stores in the track itself)

That on the software side, now on the harware.

I have an MSI GP60 8gb RAM, 120 gb SSD system HD (secondary 7200rpms of 1Tb), i7 4th gen, GT860 Graphics...
I installed all soft and drivers and plugged my DDJ-SR, worked fine. I shutted all down, restarted, replug same things AND a mouse, run Serato and no sound (i don't say NO controller, the controller was present and working, but no sound) if i start with a mouse plugged in any of the USBs this happens... not if i start Serato DJ first... That is not an "issue", that is a program fail. (don't happens on VDJ or Traktor or even Mixxx...)

Also i've digged a bit on the forums, and seems that all of this is happenning to many people, some one with more issues, some one with less, some ones worst ones... So i don't think that is:

"This is clearly just another instance of user error."

I won't ever say that i know everything, but i think that if a program states something, must do it. And some things are just "so natural" on the user interface side, so don't tell me that one solution is to open SDJ with only the controlled plugged, that is not a solution.

If there is any hint or tutorial (i've seen some) for that program you mention that can help me to get back to my "girl" ;) i am all eyes and ears... (maybe in a private message to not distort this post) in the end, and that is true, I WISHED i were using Serato, but the fact is that it's not working for me.
pd_C 3:55 PM - 29 July, 2014
Quote:
What a weird thread....reeks of user error, yet user seems to have experience...

color me baffled


Color me with the "user errors please"...
Draven1327 5:53 PM - 29 July, 2014
see .... this clears i up a bit... as far as the hardware issue... i honestly can't give you a solution. i have not had any problems that i have read about, (ive used scrach live, itch and serato dj with windows and macs, ttm57, sl-1, sl2, vci-300, DN-HC1000S, and now the ddj-sx) i have had a few audio dropouts with my sony laptop before i got rid of it but i was pushing it a bit hard those nights.

that doesn't mean they don't exist, but i know plenty of people here don't post all the good/great nights they have . so obviously the few "horror nights" stand out which i can see as helpful because the tech can try to pinpoint where the problems are. (btw have you put in an official help request or just trying to find a solution on your own??)


now as far as track prep......as far as i understand it yes vdj may bpm, grid, auto-gain and set start better than serato. while it would work for some ..... i hate it. (personal preference) you are entitled to your own decision no one is saying you HAVE to stay with serato dj, or with itch etc. use whatever works with your flow. i would not buy a record where someone has already left stickers, notes or anythng on it without going back and changing things around to suit my needs. yes i saves a bit of time and yes i may be useful.... with a huge emphasis on maybe.

i dont rely on serato's automatic anything. heres my process....

-find songs i want/need place them in a folder (anywhere from a week to a month)
-once i get about 100 songs i place them in platnium notes and mixed in key this gives me consistent volume, key, and bpm
- import the entire folder into serato as a temp crate and analyze without auto gain, beatgrids or bpms (takes about 3-5 mins)
- find and set my start points/beat grid, set cue points for each song. (takes about an hour and a half)
- once hats done i go back to my folders and place the song into the proper genre folder (i have my folders organized by genre)
-run scratchtools to sync folders and crates.

i do this maybe once a month and it takes me about 2-3 hrs depending how many beers i drink or how much i want to get into detail with my cue points. when i have free time i chip away a my library that is not prepared yet (i have about 60-70k songs total and maybe 60% not beatgridded or analyzed ) is also helps me find those song i have forgotten about but might fit in rotation.

you've had the program for two weeks, and during that time your still going back to your "ex", if it was a real relationship that wouldn't fly..... right?? of course your tracks might run the risk of getting screwed up. your having multiple programs reading and writing on the same id-3 tag! someone is bound to get confused.

you are starting a new "relationship" if your looking for a program to do all the work for you ... sorry its not going to work. stick with what you know. but if you really want to switch well then you have some work to do. :-)

platnium notes and mixed in key are expensive but they do good work. there is a good free bpm open source program made by one of the users here that works pretty awesome. (cant remember he name though) there are also free programs to help 'normalize' your tracks before putting them into serato. (which if you ripped them all yourself the should be all the same level.... but im not going to judge)


heres an old video for scratchtools from konix. their forum is a bit dead and littered with ads and crap but you can get all the info from the history. and searching a bit. there are also tons of tuts for beat-gridding faster and more efficient.

youtu.be
Draven1327 6:01 PM - 29 July, 2014
:-) i guess im really bored at work lmao i didn't realize i wrote that much, oh well hope it helps somebody out there
djmacklong 6:55 PM - 29 July, 2014
I can't take any "DJ" seriously that would legitimately prefer to use Virtual DJ over Serato, or that can't mix two tracks together using nothing more than a music source, two upfaders and a crossfader.
deejdave 10:02 PM - 29 July, 2014
I could barely understand what was being said as the sentences make sense until one (important) word throws everything off. That being said I decided to attack the example that was given.


Streamline by Newton.

First off it is 150 BPM and wouldn't you know it is listed as 150 BPM by my SDJ software as well. The beat grids were set perfectly by my software. Here is some info on the song including the actual BPM info www.discogs.com

This is NOT always done perfectly and some apps are better than others with consistency.
That being said I would NEVER trust the software alone and I go through the music myself editing everything along the way.
SDJ does not set the "First Cue" on it's own so how could it POSSIBLY be set incorrectly by the software? That REEKS of user error not for nothing. You do realize it was you who set the first cue point (or someone else who had the file/s prior to you) and not Serato DJ. The auto gain works as I expected.

Also I think (but again due to the phrasing used am not sure) you were explaining your version of preparation and analyzing. It is not simply I have listened to the track in ins entirety so we are all good. You need to actually analyze the files with SDJ, You don't even need to be present. Listening is ALSO a good idea but it does not stop there.



Bottom line you stress your desire to get this software working so let's focus on that. First off let's take the proper steps. Open a help request here serato.com
explain to the specifically the issue/s you are experiencing. Just to inform you it may come down to something like your mouse is incompatible or a firewire cable issue or whatever and things are not always "well I wanna do what I wanna do". For me if there is something getting in the way of using my software of choice I weigh things out and I made a decision. I feel you may come to that point as well. Serato DJ may not be for you but going the proper routes is the BEST way to be sure. How is us telling you you're doing everything wrong going to help you in the end. If you want to do things different that is your prerogative but it may NOT fit into the SDJ criteria. That is between you and your "girl". Give the guys a chance here as they are the best at what they do. Remember Serato got nominated for the DJ Mag tech awards for a reason. Please not what application is NOT there. apps.facebook.com REMEMBER to cast your vote for Serato guys.
pdidy 11:25 PM - 29 July, 2014
^^^^deejdave always says the things I want to say that im too lazy to properly express and put it in to words....lol
djmacklong 12:40 AM - 30 July, 2014
Quote:
^^^^deejdave always says the things I want to say that im too lazy to properly express and put it in to words....lol
pd_C 10:06 AM - 30 July, 2014
Quote:
I can't take any "DJ" seriously that would legitimately prefer to use Virtual DJ over Serato, or that can't mix two tracks together using nothing more than a music source, two upfaders and a crossfader.


And for what i explain, you do supose that i can't mix two tracks without only a music source, two upfader and a crossfader?

Right when i started, some mixers got "circular" potenciometers and no crossfader.

But i don't try to enter a battle "VDJ vs SDJ", there are plenty of that already.

The comments that help, and makes me want to try (or keep triying) Serato DJ are the ones like deejdave does.
pd_C 10:21 AM - 30 July, 2014
But just FYI:

I redonwloaded this track, just to be sure that has no tags, cues or anything from before.

1rst analysis with BPM Range set to "None": 75 BPM detected and bad first cue point.

2n analysis with BPM Wange set to "78-155": 150 BPM detected (nice, but how i must know the range...), and bad start cue point.

I attach a screenshot of both together:
postimg.org
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:00 AM - 30 July, 2014
Looking at your pic, i'm guessing when serato sets the first cue point it looks for the "downbeat" or the first place the audio is the loudest, looking at the waveform for that track it starts off in mono and where serato has cued it is where it first kicks in in stereo, tracks that do not start off with a beat can be tricky for software I have noticed in the past, I suppose serato could add a option to cue to first sound but not very practical if your track has a bit of static or has somethig going on at the start

So it got the bpm wrong you'd swear it was the end of the world, you get used to this, this auto find range can be handy but as you noticed it can get it wrong, as you'll noticed it's not really wrong its just half of what it should be easy fix, double click in the bpm field and hit alt + up key will fix it,

its best to set a bpm range to be more accurate, if i'm adding a lot of electro tracks and know there all going to be around 128bpm I set the range so all the tracks get bpm correctly, if i'm scanning new top 40 shit i leave auto as the ranges vary so much so you have to deal with the few that get tagged as half or that.

And just to rub a lil salt in I'm supprised serato even played that track at all its so bad
pdidy 12:13 PM - 30 July, 2014
Quote:
I can't take any "DJ" seriously that would legitimately prefer to use Virtual DJ over Serato, or that can't mix two tracks together using nothing more than a music source, two upfaders and a crossfader.

Yea he really doesn't seem like the type of person deserving of our help, it might be best that we let him disappear into obscurity aka vdj.
pd_C 12:50 PM - 30 July, 2014
True DJ Sparky, don't having a good beatmatch or first cue isn't the end of the world, and if i knew how to avoid or "correct" them that's more work, but affordable...

For the "theme play", just open a serato issue... if it works i'll do a lot on "reaggetton" and "electro-latino" ones... ;)

Some ones are aporting, some ones are "substracting", and some ones... well, then is pdidy "alikes" that i don't know what pretends out of easy sarcasm, but i've read a lot of her comments around...

And again, it's not a VDJ vs SDJ battle, it's mainly what i'm used to versus the new professional software that all professionals use that have "issues". A different workflow and approach, ok, but not as i espected.
djmacklong 8:00 PM - 30 July, 2014
1 a) Where did you download the track from? Neither SSL or SDJ automatically set cue points for you. If you downloaded a track with preset cue points, then they were set by whatever service you downloaded the track from. Often times these pools are uploading so much music at a time, that the editors just quickly add cue points that are "good enough", and not actually accurate. Not to mention that we all have our own preferences on where we want to mix our tracks in.

2 b) When cue points are preset by record pools, they're usually set "on the 1" (the first beat of the first full measure...this is also known as the "downbeat"). Often times "the 1" is not the first audible point of the song. Many tracks have short intros that can be used to scratch in the next track, if you know how to count music beyond the typical 1-2-3-4.

3) 75 and 150 are essentially the same BPM (half/double). Depending on how you have your BPM range set when you analyze your tracks, it will choose one BPM or the other. If you don't prefer to see it at the BPM that SDJ automatically displays, change it.

4) My ultimate issue is that in your original post you're making all these generalizations based on an expectation of SDJ being a simple plug-and-play DJ system, which it's not. SSL (which is morphed into SDJ) was originally designed for old school DJs that are used to actually doing the work and proper preparation that is required to DJ manually, but in a more technologically advanced way. You come in here with this entitlement complex that SDJ should essentially to all the work for you and do it perfectly from the jump, except it's not designed that way. You still have to understand how music works and take the time to learn the tracks inside and out, make adjustments, etc. DJing *well* is a combination of time, preparation, comprehension of music theory and structure, and patience.
djmacklong 8:05 PM - 30 July, 2014
Back pedaling...looked at the picture and see that we're talking about beatgrids, not cue points. My bad on that...

It takes about 2 seconds to reset your beat grids to where you want them. Again...simple prep work. It's part of the job.
deejdave 8:26 PM - 30 July, 2014
@ djmacklong - You can't really blame yourself as this is a case of words & different meanings. As I stated before everything makes sense until one word in many of the sentences throws EVERYTHING off. The OP himself was the one who was calling them first cues you were simply trying to respond.



At the end of the day this can't be a SDJ Vs. VDJ argument as they are two different animals. This is not something I made up it is just what it is. Just as the DDJ-SB is considered a consumer electronic Vs. the DDJ-SX being considered professional DJ hardware. Serato DJ is a professional DJ application while VDJ is a consumer app. The actual developers and leading manufacturers as well as media outlets in the respective fields classify things this way so it makes sense that we should to. Getting past that point we can start to accept things as they are and move forward.

I sometimes use VDJ and TBH love the operation of VDJ 8. Just as I delegate the use of my PC's & Mac's in which I use both and have a need for both I do the same with my software & hardware. No need to downgrade or make fun of VDJ. It clearly has its pace in DJing. As I always say I started with VDJ & PCDJ and I probably wouldn't be here without them. My path lead to a lucrative business where I could justify spending the money to upgrade to a professional level thus Traktor & SSL were my next choice which ultimately led to SDJ with a few in between.


Ultimately I feel there is still hope for the OP as long as he is willing to change his ways slightly. I firmly believe his overall experience as a DJ will improve if he puts the effort in as well. To me organization is godliness and the only way to go. If I wasn't able to say my entire collection was 100% synced & analyzed between all three major pro DJ apps I would not be as happy. As a matter of fact every week I get all the new releases ready to go and add them to the database. It is an ongoing, never ending love/hate thing BUT............................... as I am sure everyone here can vouch THE JUICE IS WORTH THE SQUEEZE!!
pd_C 7:55 AM - 31 July, 2014
I will give it another try, thanks to deejdave.

Maybe initially i hoped that were as easy as in VDJ and i hoped that the "search" worked on browse mode (just to not to have to "over-analyse" tracks) but if it's what it is, it is.

Thank where kind words came.
djmacklong 7:03 PM - 31 July, 2014
DJing well is not easy.

"If it was easy, it wouldn't be worth it."
pd_C 8:26 PM - 31 July, 2014
Well maybe for me after many years DJing is easy, it's the "library" part that doesn't...

But appreciate you comment and i know where you wanna arrive :)
djmacklong 10:29 PM - 31 July, 2014
I prefer to look at it as a skill that I've developed over the span of my career that's become second nature, so it *looks* easy.

If it was easy, there wouldn't be so many terrible DJs out there...and guys like Pauly D and DJ BL3ND wouldn't have to rely on pre-made mixes to make their millions.
deejdave 8:05 AM - 1 August, 2014
The true benefit of the controllers of today are dual, triple & many times even more applications that they work with. The DDJ-SR being one of the better ones too. With this fact I believe your best course of action is to master both applications and I promise you will find the right uses for them. DJing is all about the right tools for the right job. By giving SDJ the full chance it deserves you will simply be adding one more (VERY EFFECTIVE) tool to your toolbox. The skills are up to you but these apps when utilized properly will enable you to do things you never thought possible.

The more difficult it is the more impressive it is to accomplish.................................


You are most welcome and if you ever need help go to the Serato team first as they are amazing at what they do but if you find yourself waiting & unable to connect with anyone I personally Invite you to PM me for anything you may need and I will either get you sorted or point you in the right direction.
pd_C 8:41 AM - 1 August, 2014
Some times one just need the right words to give another chance or get on "on it".

That was me, and thanks to the ones who helped.

The fact that i've been DJing looong time with a Numark TotalControl and VDJ, along with just CDs and Turntables and my digital library it's "working" right now, doesn't give me the rigt to blame a new "tool". Because if i've read things of Serato DJ, they are good ones on the majority (out of strange bugs, issues and troubleshooting). And, that's true, the first time i opened it up i was amazed.

I will be muted some time, and i will post my advances soon.
shadow23 6:36 PM - 1 August, 2014
I just like to pitch in as well. I had been a happy DDJ-SR owner/user when I had one. I never had any issues at all. The only reason I got rid of the SR was because I needed more outputs and wanted something that has extra features.

But besides that, the SR is an awesome controller and if you don't have a really huge playlist SDJ works pretty well.