DJing Discussion

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Ortofone Digital Needle

DJ Yaz 1:47 AM - 1 February, 2006
Has anyone messed with the digital Ortofone needles? If so how are they...
DJ XTURNAL 2:03 AM - 1 February, 2006
are they not all digitally processed?
DJ Yaz 3:37 AM - 1 February, 2006
No no, misundertanding... it's designed specifically for playback of timecoded vinyl like what we use. It's red and I believe it's called the digital or something. I saw an add for it in Club System. They claim lower wear and better tracking? Just wondering if anyone had messed with them?
DJMark 3:41 AM - 1 February, 2006
I've never seen or heard of it before, but it smells like marketing hype to me.
DJ Yaz 3:44 AM - 1 February, 2006
yeah, I agree.
Jay-P 6:09 AM - 1 February, 2006
Ive heard of the Stanton ones for Final Scratch. Whats the model on the Ortofons?
anewsome 6:21 AM - 1 February, 2006
It may not be all hype fellas. I don't work for Ortofon or anything but DJ cartridges are designed to "sound good",.. pumped up bass, sparkling highs, etc. You don't necessarily need pumped up bass and sparkling highs when decoding timecode. You need accurate response and the cleanest unaltered signal as possible. I for one, believe that someone could design a stylus/cartridge setup that could be specifically adept at timecode signaling. Whether Stanton or Ortofon has done it or not, I have no clue.
Brandon Fisher (BLF DJ Supply) 6:29 AM - 1 February, 2006
I have been in contact with the Ortofon GM for north america and discussing the "digitrack" cartridge. He told me it does exactly what they claim and I tend to believe him. I have been a ortofon fan for quite sometime.
punosion 3:56 PM - 1 February, 2006
Really?! Off to find links...
Serato, Forum Moderator
Sam 7:18 PM - 1 February, 2006
I have a pair kindly given to me by the guys at Ortofon. We're testing them, and we'll let you know what we think.
nobspangle 7:38 PM - 1 February, 2006
What would the ideal cartridge for SSL be?

obviously high output seems to be important, so the ortofon qbert seems to win here, but how much high output is good, too much input will make the control signal distort and that can't be good.

Then there's the question of EQ, at first you would say, kill all the bass to stop rumble and boost the range used by the control signal, but when you move the record really slowly you will get very low frequency sounds, moving the record quickly will get high frequency sounds.

Then there is one final point, I don't play SSL all the time (most of the time but not all the time) I need my needle to sound at least OK with normal vinyl.

Maybe Ortofon should have spoken to Serato first before making this needle/cart to get there input at a design stage. That way they might have come up with something as close as possible to perfect.

There's money in this for the needle manufacturers, I only bought a pair of M44-7s because Serato recommend them in the manual, if they recommended a different needle (even a stanton one) I would probably have bought that.
Detroitbootybass 8:13 PM - 1 February, 2006
I hear ya, nobspangle... I play both digital files and regular vinyl. That is why I picked up a pair of Ortofon Elektro (high output; 7.5 mV) and I couldn't be happier.
nik39 8:29 PM - 1 February, 2006
Quote:
obviously high output seems to be important, so the ortofon qbert seems to win here, but how much high output is good, too much input will make the control signal distort and that can't be good.

Esp. if you spin fast (fast cueing, fast scratches!), which will raise the output level and do what you described.
skinnyguy 9:21 PM - 1 February, 2006
hopefully ortofon has improved their connection points on their integrated carts. having one side of sound play (normal audio) is a bit tolerable, but not being able to correctly control your audio (via timecode) would be disastrous. i'm sure these would have pretty good audio reproduction as well if you switch to normal vinyl and don't wanna keep swapping out headshells.
DeezNotes 9:47 PM - 1 February, 2006
Quote:
hopefully ortofon has improved their connection points on their integrated carts.


They have.
DJ Yaz 11:35 PM - 1 February, 2006
Quote:
I have a pair kindly given to me by the guys at Ortofon. We're testing them, and we'll let you know what we think.


Thanks Sam!
Anton 2:04 PM - 2 February, 2006
So, what is the model name and color? I can't find anything on their site
DeezNotes 2:41 PM - 2 February, 2006
I'm pretty sure it's red.
punosion 4:51 PM - 2 February, 2006
Quote:
So, what is the model name and color? I can't find anything on their site


x2, where the hell do I find these? Have they even been released yet?
s42000 6:40 PM - 2 February, 2006
Quote:
I've never seen or heard of it before, but it smells like marketing hype to me.


Agreed .....
DJ MDX 6:46 PM - 2 February, 2006
If I remember correctly they were just announced/shown at NAMM. I will see if I can get some more info for you guys.
DeezNotes 6:52 PM - 2 February, 2006
I heard about it a while ago. I didn't want to post, because I couldn't find any info on it.
Rebelguy 7:05 PM - 2 February, 2006
They have pics in the new issue of DJ Times with Mylo on the cover. If I remember correctly they are pink...a neon pink. I might go for the headshell mount ones if they are indeed the real deal.
punosion 7:13 PM - 2 February, 2006
Quote:
They have pics in the new issue of DJ Times with Mylo on the cover. If I remember correctly they are pink...a neon pink. I might go for the headshell mount ones if they are indeed the real deal.


Aww, they gotta' be red to match Serato! ;)
Anton 1:12 PM - 3 February, 2006
Neon Pink - this is Ortofon Scratch needle
dj speedbump 5:45 PM - 13 February, 2006
It's called the Ortofon Digitrack. Looks like $300 for a matched pair, whatever "matched" means. They are red, looks cool. If they track better, I'm in.
nik39 5:51 PM - 13 February, 2006
$300? WTF?
nobspangle 6:15 PM - 13 February, 2006
I think I'll hold tight, unless Serato come back and say these are the greatest needles ever, I'll stick to my M44-7s, even In the UK I still only paid £70 for a pair.
Anton 11:45 AM - 14 February, 2006
Digitrack - this is an old Ortofon hi-fi needle, as i know
DJ GaFFle 12:48 PM - 14 February, 2006
Quote:
It's called the Ortofon Digitrack. Looks like $300 for a matched pair, whatever "matched" means. They are red, looks cool. If they track better, I'm in.


I think "matched" is the total signal output on each needle is measured and 'mated' the another needle for exactness to make a perfect "match".
I don't like this philosophy. I think the needle manufacturer (if they're good) should have top notch quality controls in place to insure ALL their needles meet the same exact tolerances.
DeezNotes 2:53 PM - 14 February, 2006
I remember Stanton selling "matched pairs" back in the day. I always thought it was a marketing scheme.
DJ BIS 5:04 AM - 25 February, 2006
Quote:
I have a pair kindly given to me by the guys at Ortofon. We're testing them, and we'll let you know what we think.


Can't wait to see the review!
click 5:29 PM - 25 February, 2006
What if you switch bewteen real vinyl and time code??
click 5:29 PM - 25 February, 2006
Quote:
$300? WTF?


Is that for the concord or the OM?
dj gs 6:06 PM - 25 February, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
It's called the Ortofon Digitrack. Looks like $300 for a matched pair, whatever "matched" means. They are red, looks cool. If they track better, I'm in.


I think "matched" is the total signal output on each needle is measured and 'mated' the another needle for exactness to make a perfect "match".
I don't like this philosophy. I think the needle manufacturer (if they're good) should have top notch quality controls in place to insure ALL their needles meet the same exact tolerances.


it means that the diamonds on the styli are cut from the same diamond
DJ BIS 8:37 PM - 25 February, 2006
Quote:
What if you switch bewteen real vinyl and time code??


Good point.
Soba 10:52 PM - 25 February, 2006
No matter how tight your quality control styli are always going to be slightly different. Matched pairs are more common with speakers and microphones, it means each unit is tested off the assembly line and mated to others with similar characteristics, ie four mics might come off the line separately, two of them have a darker sound and two a brighter tone so the like mics are grouped together. The whole batch will sound 99% identical but if you're stereo micing instruments small differences can come up in the mix.
Assuming these needles are matched the same way, it's kinda pointless... with timecode differences in frequency response and level don't matter at all. I daresay they won't sound as good as a $300 pair of regular needles so the advantage of a matched pair for straight listening is kinda a moot point.

i call buzzword.
OrtofonUSA 4:28 AM - 27 February, 2006
Hey Guys,
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here but there seems to be some confussion on not just the DigiTrack but also some of our other cartridges. I thought I can answer some of those questions (hope that's cool Sam).

First, the cartridges are called the DigiTrack. We currently have a few samples (10 pairs went to Sam in New Zealand last week). Production is going on in the factory right now. The first run is due in our US offices on Monday, Feb. 27th. They'll ship out to Guitar Center and PSSL. Other dealers in the US will get them very soon. The rest of the world will get them starting April 1st.

I personally believe that a hybrid of past technology and current technology like Serato is the future of DJ'ing. When I took the position in August I suggest to our engineers that we develop a needle to work with this. We certainly want to remain a relevant company in the DJ world and this is our second step in that direction (Q.Bert's were the first). Sure, there is some marketing to it but the truth is the charectaristics of this needle are different then anything else on the market. That's why I immediately gave Sam a pair (actually the first pair) when I met him at NAMM.

As far as development, I had been in touch with the sales guys from Rane since October about the development. I even went out and bought a few sets of Serato to ship to Denmark because it's a bit difficult to find there. These needles were designed using Serato vinyl!

We are very serious about our name and quality. We have never nor will we ever make a product that doesn't live up to our standards. Most importantly, if Sam reccomends we make any changes, we will.
OrtofonUSA 4:29 AM - 27 February, 2006
Sorry,forgot to ad that they're red. They were made based on Serato, how could they not be red????
Niro 5:08 AM - 27 February, 2006
Ort-USA

The question is, what is so special about them?

Do they wear the record less?
Do they send a better signal, letting there be less latency?
Do they send a different signal, so you can have a higher threshold? than how would they sound using regular vinyl.

I have a feeling that is what everyones wants to know why and what do they do, since the serato manual recommends 44-7's since they stick and don't wear your records as much.

thanks
S
DJ MDX 5:12 AM - 27 February, 2006
Quote:
Sorry,forgot to ad that they're red. They were made based on Serato, how could they not be red????


Do you have some Hi-Res Pictures???
click 5:13 AM - 27 February, 2006
44-7s don't wear records as much as what??? :O
OrtofonUSA 5:25 AM - 27 February, 2006
Niro,
To answer your questions:
Lower wear
Better signal although I can't answer the latency question. I'll leave that for Sam.
They also have a higher output and an increased frequency response.

And yes, you can use them with regular vinyl although if you're using primarily regular vinyl I wouldn't because there are better fits.

To be honest, I prefer not to answer some of these questions because they can be opinion and quite honestly, only Brandon knows me (I've posted on other DJ boards for about 10 years as Big Bopper if that helps any of you). I'd prefer to let your peers use the needles and give you an unbiased opinion. It should carry more weight than anything I post.
s42000 5:39 AM - 27 February, 2006
Quote:
Sorry,forgot to ad that they're red. They were made based on Serato, how could they not be red????

I hope these carts do not neglect the vinyl aspect of Djing. It's good to note that you Ortofon cats have acknowledged that SSL is the future of DJing and have repositioned yourselvelves to be the leaders in this new frontier.

We have enjoyed and appreciated your products in the past and hope to continue doing so in the future. Please, dont hesitate to check in with us and more importatly work with the real pioneers in this game .... RANE/SERATO.

Thanks.
s42000 5:48 AM - 27 February, 2006
Quote:
''''''' Most importantly, if Sam reccomends we make any changes, we will.

Sam .... this makes you more powerful than even Saddam, Marcos, Milosevic..... The future is in your hands. Please be our Newton .... Descartes.... Lil John....
DJ MDX 5:56 AM - 27 February, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry,forgot to ad that they're red. They were made based on Serato, how could they not be red????


Do you have some Hi-Res Pictures???


OrtofonUSA,

I think this is a question you can answer ;-)

Also if you want to send me a press release I will post it on my site.

I will check with you again tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.
DJ Sparx 7:17 AM - 27 February, 2006
Guitar Center lists them as "Ortofon Scratch"

www.guitarvision.com

search for Ortofon Scratch
click 7:50 AM - 27 February, 2006
Quote:
Guitar Center lists them as "Ortofon Scratch"

www.guitarvision.com

search for Ortofon Scratch


Those are orts scratch -- check ortofon.com for pics of the digital..
DJ XTURNAL 12:39 PM - 27 February, 2006
yeah those arent the digitals, those are just ortofon scratches, the've been around for a while
djransom 1:55 PM - 27 February, 2006
Pics are definitely now up on Ortofon.com. If and when I decide to switch back to vinyl I would definitely invest in those needles to use w/ my Serato. I like the fact that they give you the option for integrated and non-integrated catridges.
DJ Sparx 3:38 PM - 27 February, 2006
sorry...my mistake...apparently, Guitar Center doesn't have them listed as of yet...I just saw the "red" carts and assumed it was it....
JohnDP1 3:55 PM - 27 February, 2006
how much?
DJ Sparx 10:21 PM - 27 February, 2006
I called Guitar Center today...they don't even have them in the computer.
DeezNotes 11:22 PM - 27 February, 2006
My boy works at GC. He told me about them 2-3 weeks before this post was created.
DjWoody 6:37 AM - 28 February, 2006
I saw an ad for these needles on CLUB SYSTEMS INTERNATIONAL... They look interesting.
DjWoody 6:41 AM - 28 February, 2006
Here's two links of interest...

ORTOFON CONCORDE DIGITRACK CARTRIDGE
www.pssl.com

ORTOFON CONCORDE DIGITRACK CARTRIDGE - OM Version
www.pssl.com
clintonf 1:11 PM - 28 February, 2006
I'm not sure this helps (just for better pictures).

www.uniquedist.com
a sides 12:46 AM - 1 March, 2006
ok i am one of the lucky guys passed on a set of these needles from serato. i am currently on tour in new zealand and australia and have been using these needles constantly for live club gigs and radio gigs as well. so far they have been working like a dream. i have not compared them one on one to my shures yet because they have been in the box since i have had these and i want to give the digitracks a good run in. they are sounding good, nice crisp top end and deep bass, they are holding the records well and i have not had any latency problems as yet. they also look amazing on the end of a 1200 tone arm, bright red in color so they stick out nice! if i have any problems with them i will post on the forum. GOOD WORK ORTOFON:)
OrtofonUSA 3:08 AM - 1 March, 2006
A Sides-
Thanks for the feed back. You're the first person i've spoken to who's used them outside the factory or a trade show. We all know traveling and working on different equipment each night causes unforseen problems. Very happy to hear they're working well for you.

As for the request for images, I just got home from a long trip. I'll email them sometime tomorrow to those who were interested.
joshua 4:38 AM - 1 March, 2006
quick question for the ortofon guys (which it is very nice to have reps from the actual company adressing this stuff, thx guys).
will there be any disadvantage to using the digitrack styli on any ortofon cart?
i know that they're interchangeable, i have an om scratch cartridge, but i have used both djs and nightclub stylis on it with no problems, just curious if it defeats the purpose doing that.
i know that the stylus itself is only a small part of the big picture to the way the cart actually functions.
just curious,
Josh
MSF 5:32 AM - 1 March, 2006
yay...a needle designed more for SSL...It was only a matter time...(I had asked for this months ago...)
OrtofonUSA 6:35 PM - 1 March, 2006
Josh,
Glad to be here. I'm doing my best to just answer tech questions and not to disrespect Sam and the forum. I hope it doesn't appear that I'm here just to plug our product.

As for being interchangeable, the general answer is yes except there are 3 exceptions. You can't change the Pro (which you shouldn't be using with SSL anyway) and the Qberts and DigiTracks are not interchangeable with the others. Why? They use a different engine (in laymans terms, they have more copper windings). While they'll fit, you'll recieve far from optimal sounds.

All of our other DJ stylus are interchangeable.
joshua 6:41 PM - 1 March, 2006
thx man, that made sense..
Josh
DJ BIS 6:52 PM - 1 March, 2006
Quote:
You can't change the Pro (which you shouldn't be using with SSL anyway) and the Qberts and DigiTracks are not interchangeable with the others...
All of our other DJ stylus are interchangeable.


which ones have the bigger engine then? The QBerts? sorry...
DeezNotes 6:56 PM - 1 March, 2006
So besides output volume, what would be the advantages to switching from the Pink Scratch cart to the Q-Bert?

Also, I'm curious of the sound quality of the DigiTracks vs. other Ortofon carts when using regular vinyl.

Although I can see what we can benefit from using *certain* carts, there is no way to measure what we will gain/lose from choosing others. I'm currently sticking with the Pinks, because I don't see a real advantage to upgrading... so is there an advantage? The technical specs on the web sites are great, but could we get an easy-to-read break-down of what is better on each cart? Maybe a [1-5] number system in areas of sound quality, record wear, skip resistance + added benefits of each DJ cart?

Thanks in advance.
OrtofonUSA 10:11 PM - 1 March, 2006
Deez,
Are you in the US? If you are, I'll make it real simple. I'll send you a pair of Digitracks on me and you post an unbiased review for the rest of the users. If you love 'em, tell everyone. If you think they suck, tell them that too. Cool?
OrtofonUSA 10:12 PM - 1 March, 2006
Bis,
Qbert and the new Digitrack are bigger (but not the same as each other).
DJ BIS 10:28 PM - 1 March, 2006
Me want! :(
DeezNotes 10:37 PM - 1 March, 2006
Yes, I'm in the US. I'll send a Private Message to follow up.
clintonf 10:37 PM - 1 March, 2006
What about your European customer's? I'm not asking for myself, but it's difficult to read about decent jestures such as above without feeling left out.

I'm not saying for one second that we should get whatever offers are going. However, we (Europeans) pay for products the same as anyone else.

Most of us on this site have purchased products from Rane/Serato/Ortofon. Just because we live in another part of the world, we are constantly penalised.

Please don't take this as sour grapes, because it isn't.

Peace
DJ BIS 10:42 PM - 1 March, 2006
^ Thats ridiculous.
clintonf 10:49 PM - 1 March, 2006
@DJ BIS - If you're saying what i've written is ridiculous, could you please explain why you say that?
OrtofonUSA 10:55 PM - 1 March, 2006
Clint-
I am the general manager of the US subsidiary of Ortofon. As such, I am not allowed to transship-IE...I can't send something across the border. Except for our home country of Denmark, the rest of Europe is handled by distributors so I can't tell them to give you one. Hell, I don't even know all of them so I'm sorry to say, on this one you're out of luck. Sorry if that offends you in any way but it's reality and there's nothing I can do about it.
DJ BIS 10:56 PM - 1 March, 2006
Just because you are in Europe you are going to whine about not getting a sample for free? C'mon man!

Quote:
I'm not saying for one second that we should get whatever offers are going. However, we (Europeans) pay for products the same as anyone else.


So? North Americans get eveything for free? NO!

I am from Costa Rica, and there are plenty of foreign people here, what if we all acted up like that?

You guys have great products over there too, should I complain about not getting free samples? OrtofonUSA happens to be in the US, its not his fault he is not over there. Maybe you can email corporate?

I just thought that the whining/begging part of this was silly.

Penalized... pfffft.
clintonf 11:27 PM - 1 March, 2006
Quote:
Clint-
I am the general manager of the US subsidiary of Ortofon. As such, I am not allowed to transship-IE...I can't send something across the border. Except for our home country of Denmark, the rest of Europe is handled by distributors so I can't tell them to give you one. Hell, I don't even know all of them so I'm sorry to say, on this one you're out of luck. Sorry if that offends you in any way but it's reality and there's nothing I can do about it.


Thank you for taking the time for explaining your position. I actually wondered at the time why your user name explicitly stated "USA". It makes sense now. I believe that I stated that I didn't want to review on (I own several ortofon cartridges, but they are all hifi ones and I feel that I would not be qualified enough to review a DJ cartridge with my limited experience).

@DJ BIS - Re-read my post. I believe that I didn't ask for anything. Mr(Ms) OrtofonUSA specifically stated that he would send something out for a USA member. I didn't understand why this was the case and now I have an explanation.

You may call it whining, but I wasn't the one who posted immediately after OrtUSA with, what can best be described as "sadness".

Now, to break down the content of my post (for those who may have a similar opinion as DJ BIS).

I am fully aware that there are a lot of people who can evaluate these products and give good reviews.

However, there are people in other parts of the world (and I rep the UK) that are equally qualified. It sometimes doesn't seem fair that their valuable comments/reviews are excluded because of their proximatity.

I would happily buy the digitrack cartridges to evaluate them for myself, if I could get hold of any. But even ff I could get some, I would tend not to give a review on here because of my inexperience. Hence, I would be of no real use to anyone on this forum.

Whine over!
clintonf 11:52 PM - 1 March, 2006
@DeezNotes - I, for one, am looking forward to your thoughts.

I don't want to make any more trouble than I have already made, but have you got the QBerts/Scratch to compare? If not, Mr(Ms) OrtUSA, could you not hook DeezNotes up, so that a proper review could be done? That would be really cool if you could (and DeezNotes didn't mind reviewing them).

Just a suggestion

Peace
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 12:57 AM - 2 March, 2006
Thanks OrtofonUSA,

Deez, looking forward in learning of your results/recommendations regarding the new Ortofon needles.

Question: i'm not too clear, i currently use the (black w/yellow tip) club conconcords...if i read it correctly, i will be able to simply replace the 'stylus tip' with the new digitrack?

sorry for sounding confused.

dj mike coquilla
soeasy 12:59 AM - 2 March, 2006
hey Ortofon, got any answers for this or heard of it before?

scratchlive.net

these things are dope as far as sound but they're so brittle it's not even funny!!!
DeezNotes 1:18 AM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
@DeezNotes - I, for one, am looking forward to your thoughts.

I don't want to make any more trouble than I have already made, but have you got the QBerts/Scratch to compare? If not, Mr(Ms) OrtUSA, could you not hook DeezNotes up, so that a proper review could be done? That would be really cool if you could (and DeezNotes didn't mind reviewing them).

Just a suggestion

Peace


I thought about this as well. I have the Pink OM carts, Blue Concordes (DJs); I was thinking I should purchase the Q-Berts for a "real" test, but I don't have the $$$ right now.
DeezNotes 1:19 AM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
Thanks OrtofonUSA,

Deez, looking forward in learning of your results/recommendations regarding the new Ortofon needles.

Question: i'm not too clear, i currently use the (black w/yellow tip) club conconcords...if i read it correctly, i will be able to simply replace the 'stylus tip' with the new digitrack?

sorry for sounding confused.

dj mike coquilla


I think what he said is -technically- you can, but you won't get the full effect with the Q-Berts and DigiTracks.
nik39 1:20 AM - 2 March, 2006
If that is correct, I would like to know why this is the case.
OrtofonUSA 2:04 AM - 2 March, 2006
Nik,
Please read one of my earlier posts. It doesn't work because the DigiTrack and Qbert have different engines then the other cartridges in the DJ line. As to why they have different engines, there are only so many things you can change on a cartridge. In order to have different sound quality, output, etc we need to change the magnets or the copper windings. Those are the two things that make the engine. Bascially, we had to change them or it wouldn't do the things our customers are asking for.
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 2:19 AM - 2 March, 2006
not a prob... besides, the new carts will tie in perfectly with the control records (visually as well)
nik39 2:19 AM - 2 March, 2006
Thanks for explanation.
GoodVibez 3:02 AM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
ok i am one of the lucky guys passed on a set of these needles from serato. i am currently on tour in new zealand and australia and have been using these needles constantly for live club gigs and radio gigs as well. so far they have been working like a dream. i have not compared them one on one to my shures yet because they have been in the box since i have had these and i want to give the digitracks a good run in. they are sounding good, nice crisp top end and deep bass, they are holding the records well and i have not had any latency problems as yet. they also look amazing on the end of a 1200 tone arm, bright red in color so they stick out nice! if i have any problems with them i will post on the forum. GOOD WORK ORTOFON:)



Is this A Sides as in Drum and Bass A Sides?
GoodVibez 3:04 AM - 2 March, 2006
If So mad F#$%ing props.I'm a big fan of yours and any time you make it to South West Ohio I'm their.

respekt
Goodvibez
Dj Ace 3:11 AM - 2 March, 2006
Hey OrtofonUSA I want to test them, I have looking at them for a while and I am VERY INTERESTED in them, if its not possible I understand though!
DJMark 3:34 AM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
Deez,
Are you in the US? If you are, I'll make it real simple. I'll send you a pair of Digitracks on me and you post an unbiased review for the rest of the users. If you love 'em, tell everyone. If you think they suck, tell them that too. Cool?


It's nice to see this approach, even though I've definitely had some issues in the past with Ortofon's DJ cartridges.

I'm the technical director for a San Francisco-based group of bars/clubs and a few resturants with DJ booths (as well as DJ-ing 4 nights a week, mostly on my own SSL system), and we'll be installing SSL into most of them over the next 6 months or so. Currently I'm putting Shure White-Labels into these venues with decent results, but would definitely be interested in evaluating this new Ortofon product. If nothing else, I can guarantee extremely frank feedback on them. :-).
click 6:06 AM - 2 March, 2006
everyone wants freebees now...
DJLorrence 6:12 AM - 2 March, 2006
haha, its like the late eighties crack cocaine epidemic.
clintonf 9:05 AM - 2 March, 2006
I think that it would be really good if a few people on this site (and maybe others) are allowed to evaluate the main ortofon DJ products.

I'm sure that as part of the QA process that groups of people (or company's) are allowed to evaluate and feedback their thoughts to Ortofon.

But I feel that it would be really outstanding if a few members of this forum be allowed to compare the leading cartridges.

As I've mentioned before, I would be very interested in hearing the results of the test, providing they were conducted in a kinda "scientific" way (all testers evaluate in a similar way).

There's a lot of good peoples here and I feel that a lot can be learned (by way of honest, unbiased opinion) from getting them to "have a play" with the carts.

I don't know the logistics about doing something like this, but it would be really cool.

So OrtUSA, go on, send DeezNotes the QBerts (and possibly a new set of Scratch) so that he can compare and contrast.

Now, that's what I call a begging letter!!!!

Peace
click 10:30 AM - 2 March, 2006
Damn, your right. It IS like 80s crack cocaine -- no shame! ..lol
Alkatrazz 10:46 AM - 2 March, 2006
hmmm all this hoopla about the ortofons has me curious now. I play in a band and do a few live gigs primarily with SSL (makes life so much easier) Ive been using my m44-7's for a while now and have had no complaints other than its hard to see where you are putting the needle down. I actually have some whitelabels but prefer the 44-7's . I have a buddy who had the old blue orts and noticed that he did have noticibly more record wear. Are these New orts (aside from looking hella nice) going to give me less record wear withought comprimising record grip? because I believe the numbers, well from what Ive seen I trust they do have a louder output but do they have the tracking I need for a live situation, and im not talking about mixing, im talking about scratches and layering scratches live with instruments playing.
clintonf 10:53 AM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
Damn, your right. It IS like 80s crack cocaine -- no shame! ..lol


"Mayne, What you need?"

"You got the real sh*t?"

"Fo sure, I gots pinks, blacks and for chew the red joints?"

"I needs the reds, but I don't get paid until next week, what ya saying mayne".....

LOL
DeezNotes 1:31 PM - 2 March, 2006
Alkatrazz: The blues, silver, black and yellow wear more than the pinks. I've been through them all at one point or another. The pinks wear a little more than the 44-7s. Needle visibility was one of the reasons I like Ortofons over Shures - especially performing live. All of them stick quite well, but I've had the best skip resistance on the pinks. Shures got grip too, but I've had bad experiences with 44-7s on wobbly tables. When the table AND the needle wobbles they skip. If I scratch on the left TT while the right is playing, the TT will wobble making the needle wobble and will make the right (playing) deck skip. They work fine when on a sturdy surface. This isn't set in stone, cause I've seen some old broken-in-for-forever 44-7s stick no matter what. The Ortofons don't have that problem - brand new or broken in.
nik39 1:33 PM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
Needle visibility was one of the reasons I like Ortofons over Shures - especially performing live.

Totally agree!!

I cant agree with your last statement about the orts, esp. since I recognized you do need to break them in, or they may skip a lot.
DeezNotes 1:38 PM - 2 March, 2006
They do need to be broken in, but the reason I said that was because I've [not knowingly] used a brand new stylus at my last gig. I mark each set of stylii I get to keep track which is which. Anyway, I had a brand new needle on and forgot to put the old one back right before a gig. Not realizing it, I performed as normal and I couldn't tell the difference until I looked at the stylus after the gig. True, they work much better after being broken in, but whether new or old, they don't have that "wobble" like the Shures do. The "wobble" was my main point, because it seemed to be a problem in the scenario described above. I can go _crazy_ with the Ortofons on the left TT and the right (playing side) won't budge.
OrtofonUSA 6:33 PM - 2 March, 2006
Hey guys, I hate to come across as a prick but I can't give free needles to everyone. In fact, I feel bad taking the discussion away from SSL. Afterall, this is their board and I don't want to be a leach and look like I'm here to sell gear. I started to post because I saw a lot of questions and wanted to answer.

Hope you'll forgive me but I made the offer to Deez because he has a lot of posts and I wanted to give you an unbiased opinion. I thank you all for the 20+ private messages I got asking for needles but it just can't happen. I appreciate your interest and i applaud you all on your residencies but that doesn't mean it's Christmas. Hope you all understand.
concorde_pilot 6:51 PM - 2 March, 2006
lol
soeasy 6:58 PM - 2 March, 2006
agreed with Deez! if a needle is calibrated properly and set properly it should be stable and rock solid. no "wobble" which the shure's almost always have.
punosion 7:06 PM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
Hey guys, I hate to come across as a prick but I can't give free needles to everyone...Hope you all understand.


I'd like to see a competent and well-written review, maybe even with the equipment and the know-how to gather some vs. numbers we can look at (and maybe drool over)...and I think Deez can do that. I'm glad you singled him out.
punosion 7:07 PM - 2 March, 2006
oops... "maybe even ^someone^ with"

preview next time, preview next time, preview next time... ;)
DeezNotes 7:26 PM - 2 March, 2006
Thanks punosion.
nik39 7:35 PM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
I thank you all for the 20+ private messages I got asking for needles but it just can't happen.

Dang, I thought I was the only one having such a clever idea :-D

"HAve a funky funky Xmas" ;-)
nobspangle 7:45 PM - 2 March, 2006
One question for OrtofonUSA (or anyone else who knows), is there any way to tell the difference between a nightclub and a pro when they have no stylus.
click 7:50 PM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
I thank you all for the 20+ private messages I got asking for needles but it just can't happen. I appreciate your interest and i applaud you all on your residencies but that doesn't mean it's Christmas.


LOL.. some people have no shame. It is worse than crack cocaine!!

No shame = "Man, if you hook me up this one time, I will s$#@ your D#$@#"
yuri 8:39 PM - 2 March, 2006
from PSSL "ORTOFON CONCORDE DIGITRACK CARTRIDGE KIT-SPHERICAL Our Price: $179.99"

So what is in the kit? 1 needle and 1 cart or is it a pair of carts and needles?
s42000 8:54 PM - 2 March, 2006
Quote:
I thank you all for the 20+ private messages I got asking for needles but it just can't happen.

leaches :)
joshua 9:17 PM - 2 March, 2006
gosh, freakin idiots.
heck no they're not free, bodagetts...
Josh
JohnDP1 9:37 PM - 2 March, 2006
@OrtofonUSA: I contacted Ortofon for some demo material for an upcoming review site based on new DJ technology and mostly non-scratch oriented BUT it this review scheme I either buy at a lower price or I get sent and then send back the item. No freebies!
djransom 10:22 PM - 2 March, 2006
Yuri,

That's for one cartridge w/ the stylus included.
OrtofonUSA 10:48 PM - 2 March, 2006
Actually, a kit is one cartridge with stylus connected and an bonus/extra stylus. Twin pack is two carts with two stylus. Some countries also sell a single which is one cart/one stylus.

The kit is not available in every country. I can't give you a list but I can say it's available in the US.
OrtofonUSA 10:48 PM - 2 March, 2006
oops, forgot to add that the OM comes available only as a kit.
yuri 11:03 PM - 2 March, 2006
eek ok. Im sure it is a great needle but it is definitely out of my budget for needles. Thanks for the info.
mister iLL 2:12 AM - 3 March, 2006
Quote:
Hey guys, I hate to come across as a prick but I can't give free needles to everyone.


you mean you refuse to start handing out $400 worth of merchandise to everybody who asks?!? what a jerk.
punosion 3:39 AM - 3 March, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Hey guys, I hate to come across as a prick but I can't give free needles to everyone.


you mean you refuse to start handing out $400 worth of merchandise to everybody who asks?!? what a jerk.


No, it's a conspiracy...no free stuff to those outside the U.S. ;)
click 4:32 AM - 3 March, 2006
No shame = "Man, if you hook me up this one time, I will s$#ck your D#$k"
joshua 4:41 AM - 3 March, 2006
it's all about the head, and that's a fact jack....
what some people will do for head, to give or receive...
Josh
clintonf 8:53 AM - 3 March, 2006
Seriously, OrtoUSA, have you got (or can you get hold of ) a street price for the UK? It is normal for the UK prices to be the same as USA (but for the currency symbol).

Hence, are we to expect to pay £180 for a single cartridge kit?

I'd appreciate any info, you can get your hands on regarding this?

Thanks

Clint
OrtofonUSA 2:12 PM - 3 March, 2006
Clint,
I'll check for you but because of the time difference don't expect an answer before Monday.

They ship in Europe on April 1st.
s42000 7:12 PM - 3 March, 2006
OrtofonUSA,

I have had this question for a long time, who makes the tonar banana needles ? Ther they ortofons just rebranded my American DJ?

www.lpgear.com <-
nobspangle 8:23 PM - 3 March, 2006
just looks like a pro coloured yellow
clintonf 8:47 PM - 3 March, 2006
Quote:
Clint,
I'll check for you but because of the time difference don't expect an answer before Monday.

They ship in Europe on April 1st.


Thanks
DJ BIS 9:27 PM - 3 March, 2006
Quote:
...i applaud you all on your residencies but that doesn't mean it's Christmas.


LOL.
click 2:12 AM - 4 March, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
...i applaud you all on your residencies but that doesn't mean it's Christmas.


LOL.


and even if it were christmas you still wouldn't get 'none'!!!

(unless, of course, you were family (or that Hot neighbour chick that moved in across the way))
DJ BIS 9:19 AM - 4 March, 2006
^ For reals...

Sooo... Let's see some reviews! :)
DJ Sparx 5:13 PM - 8 March, 2006
I just received mine today...I will give 'em a workout and give a report.
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 8:48 PM - 8 March, 2006
yo Sparx, can u take some pics of what they look like playin on SSL Control Vinyl :) thanks in advance,
DJ Sparx 12:17 AM - 9 March, 2006
Ok...here are some pics. The first pic is the signal difference between the digitrack and nightclub s. The one on the right is the nightclub and the one on the left is digitrack. Sorry that it is slightly blurred. But, you can see the difference in signal. They are both set to 2x. The second photo is the digitrack on the control vinyl. Which brings me to another question. I am playing on digital decks...not analog...so I always have my Serato set to "Line" in. I don't know if it's just me and I haven't noticed it before, but there is a definite high pitch noise (which I suppose it the time code) coming from the decks. Is this only because they are digital and not analog? Or is it just because mostly, it's loud in the clubs and I just don't hear it? I certainly hear it at home...

photobucket.com

photobucket.com
joshua 12:39 AM - 9 March, 2006
EVERYONE hears that, it's the control signal being picked up by the needles.
stick a normal record on, turn the volume all the way down, and listen to the needles, you'll hear that too.
a needle is basically a microphone, it amplifies sound, and you'll always be able to at least hear a slight noise, doesnt matter if they're digital or analog decks.
does that answer your question any?
Josh
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 12:49 AM - 9 March, 2006
i did notice the estimate is set high on tha dig where as the nightclubs are set lower.


that high pitch noise u are hearing is the actual 'music' that plays off of tha control wax track.
DJ Sparx 12:54 AM - 9 March, 2006
Well I readjusted the "estimate" and the signal was the same as pictured.

I guess it is just too damn quiet in my house today...lol
nik39 1:01 AM - 9 March, 2006
The signal displayed is the "raw" signal, so adjustung the threshold will not affect the display.
Soulvation 4:06 PM - 11 March, 2006
I have 2 different models of Ortofons and I have come to the conclusion that Ortofons and Serato don't really work out well, I think they know this and are trying to gain more sales by bringing out a SO CALLED serato compatible Headshell and needle.

Last night I used the shures and It was much better, not nearly as much fluff and dust, and the only thing I'm doing different is using another headshell/needle.
DJ_X_Trodinaire 5:46 PM - 11 March, 2006
OrtofonUSA
Quote:
Actually, a kit is one cartridge with stylus connected and an bonus/extra stylus. Twin pack is two carts with two stylus.


I got my qberts Twin pack last night are these suppose to have 2 extra stylus??
s42000 6:18 PM - 11 March, 2006
Quote:
OrtofonUSA,

I have had this question for a long time, who makes the tonar banana needles ? Ther they ortofons just rebranded my American DJ?

www.lpgear.com <-


What say you OrtofonUSA ?
DJ Sparx 7:41 PM - 11 March, 2006
Quote:
OrtofonUSA
Quote:
Actually, a kit is one cartridge with stylus connected and an bonus/extra stylus. Twin pack is two carts with two stylus.


I got my qberts Twin pack last night are these suppose to have 2 extra stylus??


A "twin pack" is just that...a twin pack of cartridge and stylus. The "kit" is a cartridge and stylus connected PLUS one extra stylus.
DJLorrence 12:57 AM - 12 March, 2006
i have bought new needles in so long i thought ortofon still came in those fuzzy red cases...now they got those shure looking cases., and even there stylus replacements are those IMPOSSSIBLe to open plastic cyclinders.
DJLorrence 12:59 AM - 12 March, 2006
damn, i meant the OLD stylus replacemtns had the impossible to open plastic cyclinders. the new ones have the plastic case thingy.
DJ Sparx 11:29 AM - 12 March, 2006
Ok...here's a review...had a friend of mine play with them in a hip-hop room tonight for about two hours. He is looking to be new carts and I wanted him to try these out. Bottom line...they ROCK!! One...the signal output is about 1.5 to 2 times more than a regular cart (kind of like my photo). Two...they track like a charm...hold the grooves like glue. I have 4 DJ's ready to put in their order tomorrow... :-) For all who doubt what Ortofon is trying to put out...this is not HYPE...it is FACT!!! Oh...and the red color is also very cool... :-)
DJLorrence 11:50 AM - 12 March, 2006
what about the output/quality for regular vinyl?
DJ Sparx 6:43 PM - 12 March, 2006
Sorry...didn't play any...I will try that when I am in Miami for WMC.
DJ Yaz 9:51 PM - 12 March, 2006
Quote:
I have 2 different models of Ortofons and I have come to the conclusion that Ortofons and Serato don't really work out well, I think they know this and are trying to gain more sales by bringing out a SO CALLED serato compatible Headshell and needle.

Last night I used the shures and It was much better, not nearly as much fluff and dust, and the only thing I'm doing different is using another headshell/needle.


I am so with you, I used the Qberts this weekend and they sucked. It's too bad because they are a great needle for scratching on regular vinyl, and the sound quality is amazing but the M447 are unstoppable for SSL use.
boabmatic 11:00 PM - 12 March, 2006
I've switch to qberts OM carts from M447's and haven't noticed any performance issues with serato or normal vinyl ??
DeezNotes 12:30 AM - 13 March, 2006
I have no issues with using normal Ortofons with SSL. It's just a needle and wax - not much to it. If dust and fluff is your problem, you have dirty records.
DJ Dynamight 2:58 AM - 13 March, 2006
So is the Ortofon GT a useless product, then? Seems like so many new cartridges were released within a short period of time with similar features. Makes it hard to figure out which one to go with...
DJ Sparx 2:31 AM - 15 March, 2006
Quote:
I have no issues with using normal Ortofons with SSL. It's just a needle and wax - not much to it. If dust and fluff is your problem, you have dirty records.


Don't think they are "wax" anymore... :-)
Dj Ace 6:05 AM - 15 March, 2006
I have no issues at at all using ortofon's especially the Qberts...maybe is has to with different scatch styles or calibrations.
Dj Ace 6:05 AM - 15 March, 2006
maybe IT has to DO with different scratch styles, calibrations, and turntables?
Menace 6:35 PM - 15 March, 2006
Quote:
First, the cartridges are called the DigiTrack...I personally believe that a hybrid of past technology and current technology like Serato is the future of DJ'ing. When I took the position in August I suggest to our engineers that we develop a needle to work with this. We certainly want to remain a relevant company in the DJ world and this is our second step in that direction (Q.Bert's were the first).


My question to Ortofon is: The QBerts have an output of 11-12 mV. That was probably the good first step. But why does the Digitrack only have 8mV? Isn`t that a step back to just normal Ortofons?

At the end, should I wait for the Digitrack or should I get the QBerts? And what`s better: CC or OM?

Greetz from Berlin
joshua 7:06 PM - 15 March, 2006
i personsally prefer om carts, i think they track a little better, but that's just my opinion.
Josh
nobspangle 10:18 PM - 15 March, 2006
Menace,
Although a high output cart is important for SSL, too high will distort the control signal making tracking poor. I reckon Ortofon have done their homework and 7-8mV is the right level for the best SSL performance.
nik39 10:20 PM - 15 March, 2006
Interesting that the output volume is lower with the digital ones.
Menace 10:20 PM - 15 March, 2006
I have the Ortofon Elektro with 7.5 mV and they don`t work really good, though.
Menace 10:27 PM - 15 March, 2006
And the recommended Shure 44-7 have 9 mV which is obviously not bewtween 7 and 8 mV.

Digitrack with only 8 mV confuses me a lot (which is only 0.5 mV more than my bad working Elektros).
punosion 10:30 PM - 15 March, 2006
Quote:
Interesting that the output volume is lower with the digital ones.


This might tie-in with what you mentioned in the other thread, that the output isn't everything with control signal...
Menace 10:35 PM - 15 March, 2006
I hope there`s something else special with the Digitracks - and not just the color :-) .

Maybe Ortofon can explain this and why the QBerts with 11 mV were their first step for timecode reading.
nik39 10:38 PM - 15 March, 2006
punosion, exactly. I just tried out exactly when SSL looses the absolute position tracking, and that is when the inner circle hits the borders at x1 zoom. So assuming I have 9mV with the shures, which equals to 2squares width on the scope zoom, and the limit is 8squares, with a factor of 4, the resultung limi is 4 x 9mV ~ 40mV. Now what I would like to know if the output volume is proportional to the speed. Then yoo can, given the normal output voltag, the maximum tracking speed.
nik39 10:41 PM - 15 March, 2006
Quote:
And the recommended Shure 44-7 have 9 mV which is obviously not bewtween 7 and 8 mV.

As stated in the manual (or this website?) Serato recommends the shure due to high ouput voltage and low record wear. I dont think that means that 9mV is the ideal voltage.
nik39 10:46 PM - 15 March, 2006
Hm, funny is with the amplified signal the signal doesnt drop below 95% whereas the original signal drops down to 60%. Interesting.
DeezNotes 10:51 PM - 15 March, 2006
I'd put $$$ on the Q-Berts having high output due to a suggestion by... Q-BERT! The Shure needles had the highest output and how better to top your competitor than saying you have MORE MORE MORE!!! Not saying it's a bad thing, but honestly 7mv was and is good enough for the majority of their carts. It was a big jump going from Stanton 500s which were less than 5mv.
Menace 10:51 PM - 15 March, 2006
that makes the fact of just 8 mV with the Digitracks even more intersting
Menace 10:58 PM - 15 March, 2006
Nik39, how did you amplify the signal to what number of estimated mV?
joshua 5:40 AM - 16 March, 2006
i've got ortofon dj/s stlylis and scratch stylis, i have the om scratch carts.
i do noticed a MAJOR difference in tracking between the two stylis, the scratch has a higher output than the dj/s and i think it just tracks a lot better.
i have some other needles that have an 8mv output and they track really well (Stanton trackmaster 2 rs believe it or not, thought those things were shit for the longest time, but they track the control records really well).
that output volume is definitely noticable...
Josh
boabmatic 9:43 AM - 16 March, 2006
with the qberts switching between regular vinyl & line (either CD or serato input) you do not need to adjust the gain on the mixer, when I used my shure you always had increase the gain on the mixer when switching between them.

maybe they decided on the higher output for this feature???

I've got the Qberts OM & my friend has the concord version and we have not had any tracking probs in serato..
DJLorrence 10:01 AM - 16 March, 2006
are the om and concord the same price?
nik39 10:04 AM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
Nik39, how did you amplify the signal to what number of estimated mV?

With an amplifier.
DJLorrence 10:47 AM - 16 March, 2006
LOL
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 11:24 AM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
are the om and concord the same price?
i thinks i saw somewhere that tha OM were cheaper... more work involved to mount to headshells, where as the concords just simply screw on to the arm.
boabmatic 11:34 AM - 16 March, 2006
the concords are about double the price of the OM's but you get a hard carry case included which you don't get with the OM's..

it takes about 10 mins to mount the OM cart on the headshell then you never have to think about it again, so not really a big deal....
OrtofonUSA 12:16 PM - 16 March, 2006
Both OM's and Concorde kit's come in the flight case. Singles do not.
boabmatic 12:48 PM - 16 March, 2006
you can't put a OM cart mounted on a headshell in the case though??? or am I wrong...
clintonf 1:00 PM - 16 March, 2006
Hey OrtUSA, i'm still waiting for my UK street price for the Digitrack!!

Thanks
OrtofonUSA 3:25 PM - 16 March, 2006
Hey Clint,
So am I!
Street prices are set by our local distributors in each country. I sent Denmark an email but they didn't have the info. PM me and I'll work on getting you the phone number for the distributor there who can answer your question.
Menace 3:52 PM - 16 March, 2006
OrtofonUSA, can you please answer my 4 questions?:

1.) If the QBerts with 11 mV were Ortofon`s first step for the use of Serato why does the Digitrack has only 8 mV (which is even quieter than the recommended Sure 44-7 with 9 mV)?

2.) Isn`t 8 mV just a step backwards to normal Ortofons?

3.) You said, the QBerts are scratch needles. Why was it the first step for Serato then?

4.) If the output level isn`t the important thing on it - what makes the Digitrack so special then for Serato?
nik39 3:59 PM - 16 March, 2006
Good questions.
OrtofonUSA 4:34 PM - 16 March, 2006
Who said Qberts were for Serato? They're not. As I've said before, they're scratch needles. The DigiTrack are for coded vinyl.

BTW Menace-
I don't sit here all day on the boards. No need to PM me 9 times in 24 hours.
Menace 4:40 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
Who said Qberts were for Serato?


You did. See here:

Quote:
I personally believe that a hybrid of past technology and current technology like Serato is the future of DJ'ing... When I took the position in August I suggest to our engineers that we develop a needle to work with this. We certainly want to remain a relevant company in the DJ world and this is our second step in that direction (Q.Bert's were the first).
Menace 4:43 PM - 16 March, 2006
What about the answers to my questions?

I don`t want spend §§§ for Digitracks and at the end I will get told again that dust and wax causes problems (on my clean records).
Menace 4:52 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I don't sit here all day on the boards. No need to PM me 9 times in 24 hours.


Common. That`s not true. Sorry for asking questions you cannot answer.

BTW, if Serato would add the advanced skipless mode we all wouldn`t have theses tracking problems at all.

Click here: www.scratchlive.net
punosion 5:03 PM - 16 March, 2006
The dude's job isn't to sit on this board and answer your PM's and questions. Shit...give the dude some time.

BTW, he never said the QBerts were the first designed for Serato...the QBerts were the first "to remain a relevant company in the DJ world."

In any case, the dust problem might be simply due to the difference in styli. If the Ortofon's have more of an elliptical shape, of course they're going to dig-up that crap suck deep in the groove that got put there in the manufacturing process and was never cleaned out. How do you clean your records, anyway?

The voltage and output questions I'd like answered in-depth, but you have to consider that he may be (big shocker) doing his normal job, might be crafting a response to you or us...or you have to even consider that they might not be able to give you (or their competition) the exact design elements that make this needle better.
Menace 6:11 PM - 16 March, 2006
I can make a screenshot of the private discussion to prove that 9 times isn`t true - not even half of it.

Probably my questions didn´t fit in the new marketing strategy by using this board with plenty of possible buyers to advertise the new product because he still found time to answer other questions.

I don`t want to get the exact design elements - I just want to understand what`s soooo special with Digitrack.
nik39 6:17 PM - 16 March, 2006
What do you define as half? 9 / 2 = 4.5 . So is half like 4 or 5? :-P
s42000 6:19 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I can make a screenshot of the private discussion to prove that 9 times isn`t true - not even half of it.

Probably my questions didn´t fit in the new marketing strategy by using this board with plenty of possible buyers to advertise the new product because he still found time to answer other questions.

I don`t want to get the exact design elements - I just want to understand what`s soooo special with Digitrack.


mmmhhhh .. me still waiting on answer to the question on Tonar Banana carts ....
DeezNotes 6:24 PM - 16 March, 2006
I could be wrong, but I stick to my last post. I believe the output on the Q needles were more than likely suggested by Q. It is his signature needle which technically should be "better" than the M44-7s in all regards. This may be a simple requirement HE wanted on his signature needles.

Like punosion said, the Q needles are a step forward in the DJ world. The scratch carts have been out for a while. Getting Q to help _design_ a needle is a big step. He's not backing some product they made up already - he was there with the dude making the needle. The Digitracks are another example of the company moving along with technology. Sure Rane suggests using the M44-7s... that doesn't mean they're the best. It's like Coke & Pepsi. And when you think about it, the M44-7s weren't even turntablist cartridges to begin with. That hasn't stopped anyone from calling them the "standard" for turntablists or Serato. The 44-7's work well when broken in, but how many people do you know have taken the time to survey every cart in existence to prove that same theory with other NON-DJ carts? I shouldn't ask all these questions, cause it's just going to start something I don't want to finish.

I'd like to know the answers to the output questions as well, but 7-8mv is more than enough to work extremely well on any setup... so I can live without hearing a response. I'd also like to know what Menace uses to clean his records. I used to have the same problem... but that problem has been solved by cleaning my records properly.
Menace 6:29 PM - 16 March, 2006
I use this:

www.protected.de

Any more questions?
s42000 6:29 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
OrtofonUSA,

I have had this question for a long time, who makes the tonar banana needles ? Ther they ortofons just rebranded my American DJ?

www.lpgear.com <-


What say you OrtofonUSA ?


>>>>>
DJ Sparx 6:39 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I'd also like to know what Menace uses to clean his records. I used to have the same problem... but that problem has been solved by cleaning my records properly.



What do you use?
DeezNotes 6:40 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I use this:

www.protected.de

Any more questions?


Yeah... what is that? It looks real serious. Can you translate it for me?

Anyways, I used to clean with Groovy Cleaner (alone) for a while. This was one of the few record cleaners Turntablelab.com recommended back then. After cleaning with this, playing the record all the way through would still cause the needle to dig up some cruddy stuff. Now, I use Groovy Cleaner in conjunction with Gruv Glide. Groovy Cleaner has worked well with getting off the hard stains while Gruv Glide seems to clean deep in the grooves of the record. After using Gruv Glide I never get that dandruff-like stuff coming out of the grooves of the record. I can play records all day back to back (when archiving) and never get a spec of dust on my needle after cleaning with these two products.
Menace 6:45 PM - 16 March, 2006
Here the english description for "Disco Antistat" i use:

www.hificables.co.uk
Menace 6:47 PM - 16 March, 2006
or here:

202.186.86.35
Deft 6:51 PM - 16 March, 2006
The thing is, does anyone really have any problems running Serato with Shure m44-7s? I've yet to use a dj cartridge that tracks as well under such low tracking forces (=good for your vinyl).
I'd use something else to archive my vinyl, but not sure I buy into an optimised cartridge for digital software.
Menace 6:56 PM - 16 March, 2006
I will probably buy the Shures tomorrow although I like the Concorde style more. I need new systems urgently - that`s why I kept asking about the Digitracks. No answer = No waiting & buying :-)
Menace 6:58 PM - 16 March, 2006
better said: I need new systems just for Serato
nik39 6:58 PM - 16 March, 2006
Menace, I would wait. Seriously. I own Concords as well, and while the Shures give a good performance, I hate not being able to see where the needle is - this is sooo much better with the concords. It sucks in the club, really. My advice.
Menace 7:03 PM - 16 March, 2006
I know, they also suck on music trucks because they skip easier.

But I am also tired switching to internal mode all the time because of a bad time code reading.

I will sleep over it.
nik39 7:05 PM - 16 March, 2006
I cant agree on the skipping. If you have set them up correctly they stick to the vinyl pretty well.

If you are on a music truck and it bumps heavily, expect any needle to jump.
Menace 7:06 PM - 16 March, 2006
Well I could compare both styles on the same truck. CC`s (which I had with me just in case) were better.
DJ Sparx 7:18 PM - 16 March, 2006
@DeezNotes

Gruv Glide...good choice...I use it on every record I purchase before ripping it to mp3...and I use it on the control records...works great!!

Also...I have a pair of Digitracks. After some "careful critism" of what I wrote in an ealier thread...please let me know the SPECIFIC way you would like them tested and what you want me to check and I will do that and write the results. However, I will be at WMC in Miami next week so don't look for anything until I get back (all my equipment has been shipped to Miami...so I don't have anything here to use). Or better yet, send me a PM with what and how you want them tested.
nik39 7:19 PM - 16 March, 2006
Sparx, you are not affiliated or work with/for Ortofon or any other needle manufacturer?
DJ Sparx 7:22 PM - 16 March, 2006
Nope...just a little 'ol DJ
nik39 7:22 PM - 16 March, 2006
Cool :)
Menace 7:25 PM - 16 March, 2006
To what procentage is the drop of timecode reading at 33 and 45 rpm?
nobspangle 9:59 PM - 16 March, 2006
Sparx, it would be good to know how they compare to the M44-7 in terms of tracking with SSL.
A good test is to see how fast you can wind the deck (see what sort of percentage you can get to before the tracking becomes too poor)
M44-7s work great for me, for me to consider changing the alternative would have to be very, very good.
DJ Sparx 10:09 PM - 16 March, 2006
I can test the Orts...but I can't compare. I don't have any 44-7's. I think I can speed the records up pretty fast on my decks...(I have 4,8, 16 and 32%) so I can jack them up pretty good. And I assume the tracking indication will be the "tracking bar"...how fast can I go before the red hits...say...50%?
punosion 10:16 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I don`t want to get the exact design elements - I just want to understand what`s soooo special with Digitrack.


Me too. :) I hope Deez gets his soon.

I got me some Whitelabels and, after owning them for a while, it would be nice to get something a bit "sleeker," so why not this cart? Timecode is the only thing I'll be playing anyway.
nobspangle 10:16 PM - 16 March, 2006
yeah something like that, I'm not near my decks now but I reckon I can hit around 200% without too much problem using M44-7s
OrtofonUSA 10:47 PM - 16 March, 2006
Sorry, missed the Tonar question.

Yes, we do make them however they don't compare well to any of the carts I've seen mentioned on this board. I'd kinda like to keep my job so I'm not going to say which one they most closely resemble :)

Menace-You seem very anxious.....chill for a bit and I'll get to you.
Soba 10:48 PM - 16 March, 2006
I think theres a lot of arguing about something that isn't actually a practical problem here. It's only timecode ffs, a couple of mV won't make any real difference. Serato works fine with 5mV output needles!
Menace 11:19 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
...chill for a bit and I'll get to you.


Okay, I will :-)
punosion 11:25 PM - 16 March, 2006
Quote:
I think theres a lot of arguing about something that isn't actually a practical problem here. It's only timecode ffs, a couple of mV won't make any real difference. Serato works fine with 5mV output needles!


There might be a window of voltage where the timecode works the best (see posts by nik), but I think the differences in this needle are the suspension. Maybe it's fine-tuned to stick to the timecode groove, instead of, say, needing a loose suspension to hit higher voltage and ride better through needle-jarring bass beats.

I have no clue, so I'd like to see some questions answered to the furthest extent possible...or some sort of scientific-type testing going on... ;)
E-Double 7:41 PM - 17 March, 2006
Got my Digitracks this week and used them at a gig last night. Sound was good, signal was strong and tracking was good as well. Also, not nearly as much dust was collecting on the needle as usual. My buddy that spins with me uses standard vinyl (I'm all Serato) and he had no problems with them. In my opinion the Digitracks are a good needle, a bit pricey but they do the trick. I was using "Elektro's" prior to this.
DJ Sparx 8:46 PM - 29 March, 2006
I played with them this week in Miami. Seemed to be a lot of "fuzz" on the signal loops in the setup. After playing for only six hours...I was starting to loose tracking quality on one of the needles...had to change it to get the quality back. Seems a bit strange after only six hours of playing. When the tracking quality was good...I could spin the vinyl up to around 78 rpm and still have a full gray bar. Also, really had to adjust the L/R and P/A balance over to one side to keep the circles round. And I noticed that you have to lighten the weight up to keep the signal good...otherwise...to much input and the circles start to cave in. But, if I have to change needles after six hours of playing...I'm not going to be very happy. I am going to do some more extensive testing when my equipment gets back.
Menace 8:49 PM - 29 March, 2006
bad news - but it can help to save money on double priced Ortofons

Thanks for the info
Menace 9:22 PM - 29 March, 2006
DeezNotes, did you finally get your free Digitracks? What can you say about them?
Menace 9:34 PM - 29 March, 2006
never mind, I found it here: www.scratchlive.net

doesn`t sound good either
Menace 9:40 PM - 29 March, 2006
intersesting what DeezNotes wrote:

Quote:
I still had problems with one channel not getting through on both decks even after cleaning with Caig. I put the M44-7s on and SSL worked just fine (left and right channels came through with no problem). I switched back to the concordes and I still had the left/right contact problem.


I just saved §299 :-)
Menace 9:44 PM - 29 March, 2006
$ 299,-
punosion 10:46 PM - 29 March, 2006
A lot of these "problems" sound like they're related to dirt build-up. DJ Sparx, did you clean your needles even once during your six-hour set? Menace, DeezNotes said he couldn't replicate the problems at home, so I don't think it's any sort of "Ortofon contact issue revisited" thing. Just a few observations...
DJ Sparx 11:04 PM - 29 March, 2006
Yes...and I use groove glide on EVERY piece of vinyl I place on a platter...including the Serato time code ones...

But it looks like Deez had a similar problem...the L/R balance problem.
DeezNotes 11:51 PM - 29 March, 2006
Yeah, I thought it would have been fixed since the contacts are now round, but I still had the problem at the club - not at home.
DeezNotes 11:53 PM - 29 March, 2006
I also didn't have the problem once I switched from the 44-7s to my OM needles. That's one of the reasons why I prefer OM. Even with flat connectors it was hit or miss with the L/R issue and Serato NEEDS both channels.

I should have time to complete testing this weekend. I'll keep you all posted. Nik39 had some good ideas for testing and I'm still open for other ideas.
nik39 1:42 AM - 30 March, 2006
Deez I might be able to do some testing as well, either to help you or just to back it. ;)
Menace 5:46 AM - 30 March, 2006
After spending $ 299 I should expect working needles without any problems. That`s my fair opinion.
s42000 12:10 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
After spending $ 299 I should expect working needles without any problems. That`s my fair opinion.


I think I will stick with what I got.

After all the hype, it appears to me that the gains are marginal. Maybe more real world experiences can shed more light on this.
punosion 1:42 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
After spending $ 299 I should expect working needles without any problems. That`s my fair opinion.


I agree 100%.

Quote:
After all the hype, it appears to me that the gains are marginal. Maybe more real world experiences can shed more light on this.


I really wonder if Deez can extract some useful information from his tests to show if they really are better...but the strange tracking problems on these and the QBerts from what I hear have me concerned too...
DJMark 3:53 PM - 30 March, 2006
This is the major problem I've had with all of the "concorde" type cartridges I've used (both the Ortofon models, and the Stanton "Groovemasters"): When they're mounted on a Technics 1200 tonearm, the stylus alignment is not correct. This results in compromised sound (mistracking), and accelerated wear on both the records and the stylii. The problem is most severe when using an elliptical stylus.

The only model of this type I've been able to get anything like a correct alignment with is the Shure White-Labels (which have adjustable overhang).

The other major issue, specific to Ortofon's Concorde models, is incorrect pin spacing on the headshell connector. They don't line up correctly with the standard tonearm connection pins, resulting in the famous "missing channel" problems. Maybe they've fixed this with these more recent models, but I have yet to see them.
DeezNotes 4:34 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
The other major issue, specific to Ortofon's Concorde models, is incorrect pin spacing on the headshell connector. They don't line up correctly with the standard tonearm connection pins, resulting in the famous "missing channel" problems. Maybe they've fixed this with these more recent models, but I have yet to see them.


The pins on the new concordes are now round instead of flat, which is why I posted a pic of the back of the carts in the review. Although I didn't have any problems at home, I did still have the "missing channel" issue at the club. Granted, I take care of my 1200s. They're in great condition. The 1200s at the club have probably seen better days. There was a MK2 and a M3D. The MK2 was most likely serviced, because the RCAs were replaced. This was actually one of the best DJ booths I've ever been in. All the equipment was pretty much standard, but they also had a patch bay to keep you from crawling underneath the table to access the mixer. The sound was REALLY good too. The bass made the screen from my laptop distort. It was rediculous. I know I'm a little off track now, but the point is the Concordes may work just fine on good turntables, but for club use I would ONLY use OM Ortofon carts for this exact reason. We've had too many issues in the past.
s42000 4:44 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
This is the major problem I've had with all of the "concorde" type cartridges I've used (both the Ortofon models, and the Stanton "Groovemasters"): When they're mounted on a Technics 1200 tonearm, the stylus alignment is not correct. This results in compromised sound (mistracking), and accelerated wear on both the records and the stylii. The problem is most severe when using an elliptical stylus.

The only model of this type I've been able to get anything like a correct alignment with is the Shure White-Labels (which have adjustable overhang).

The other major issue, specific to Ortofon's Concorde models, is incorrect pin spacing on the headshell connector. They don't line up correctly with the standard tonearm connection pins, resulting in the famous "missing channel" problems. Maybe they've fixed this with these more recent models, but I have yet to see them.


How recent are the recent models ?

I have had my blue concordes since '96 without any connection problems ...a good reason not to blow $299+ on minor improvements.
DeezNotes 4:47 PM - 30 March, 2006
The newer concordes have round gold connectors on the back (like the Technics headshell-type) instead of flat-hippo-tooth-like gold connectors.

Connection problems are hit or miss. When you're on a TT that misses, it SUCKS.
DeezNotes 4:48 PM - 30 March, 2006
I remember first seeing them about 2 years ago.
DJMark 4:52 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
The newer concordes have round gold connectors on the back (like the Technics headshell-type) instead of flat-hippo-tooth-like gold connectors.

Connection problems are hit or miss. When you're on a TT that misses, it SUCKS.


But did they change the actual pin-spacing so that it matches that of the connection pins in the tonearm? That seemed to be the major issue.

Can you link to the picture you mentioned?

Between this and the built-in (and of course, uncorrectable) misalignment of the cartridges, I've always avoided the Concordes like the plague. Their normal-headshell mounted cartridges sound a lot better to me, when properly aligned.
DeezNotes 5:04 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
Can you link to the picture you mentioned?


www.deeznotes.com
Menace 5:11 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
Although I didn't have any problems at home, I did still have the "missing channel" issue at the club.


Working needles in a club a probably more usefull :-) .

Quote:
Granted, I take care of my 1200s. They're in great condition. The 1200s at the club have probably seen better days.


Your Shure needles still worked in this club, though. So we should blame the Digitracks (!) and not both turntables in the club or the turntables DJ Sparx used in Miami.
DJMark 5:11 PM - 30 March, 2006
A little hard to tell pin-spacing from just eyeballing with the picture, but looks like they *might* have corrected it (or at least made it closer to correct).
DeezNotes 5:23 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
Your Shure needles still worked in this club, though. So we should blame the Digitracks (!) and not both turntables in the club or the turntables DJ Sparx used in Miami.


Both the Shure needles and my OM Ortofons are mounted on Technics headshells. I didn't have this problem when using my OM Scratch needles either.
DeezNotes 5:25 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
A little hard to tell pin-spacing from just eyeballing with the picture, but looks like they *might* have corrected it (or at least made it closer to correct).


I don't have my headshells with me right now, but I'm almost positive the Technics headshells have smaller pins spaced further apart.
Menace 5:31 PM - 30 March, 2006
This all reminds me to the "working" Panther driver for FS 1.5 which costed $ 49 and still didn`t work :-) .

All these companys know how to make money with desperated FS or SSL users. That`s probably why the Digitracks are even double priced than other Ortofons.
nik39 6:08 PM - 30 March, 2006
Quote:
This is the major problem I've had with all of the "concorde" type cartridges I've used (both the Ortofon models, and the Stanton "Groovemasters"): When they're mounted on a Technics 1200 tonearm, the stylus alignment is not correct. This results in compromised sound (mistracking), and accelerated wear on both the records and the stylii. The problem is most severe when using an elliptical stylus.

DJMark, Can you explain this to me in details, I dont understound the problem yet.

Thanks!
nobspangle 7:25 AM - 31 March, 2006
nik,
Like DJMMark, I've only seen the old concordes however the issue he is talking about is that the pin spacing on the connector is very tight, whereas on a technics headshell the pins are much further apart. This means that a slight miss alignment, or a small bit of dirt or grease can kill a channel.
Here's a photo www.nobspangle.f2s.com
The one in the middle is the concorde, the technics is on the right. The one on the left is a gemini headshell which seems to be somewhere in between the two but nowhere near as bad a concorde.
DJMark 7:43 AM - 31 March, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
This is the major problem I've had with all of the "concorde" type cartridges I've used (both the Ortofon models, and the Stanton "Groovemasters"): When they're mounted on a Technics 1200 tonearm, the stylus alignment is not correct. This results in compromised sound (mistracking), and accelerated wear on both the records and the stylii. The problem is most severe when using an elliptical stylus.

DJMark, Can you explain this to me in details, I dont understound the problem yet.

Thanks!


All phono cartridges, as you no doubt know, need to be geometrically aligned carefully (normally using the adjustment range in the screw-holes on most headshells. For the concorde (and other similar types), the alignment is part of the design. They got it wrong, at least when installed on a Technics 1200. Both Stanton Groovemasters and Ortofon Concordes showed a significant alignment error when I checked them with my precision alignment tool (an early-80's product called "CartAlign", though one could easily veryfy the same result with the Mobile Fidelity Geodisc which is now back in production.

I can also hear the results: high-frequency distortion from mistracking.
nik39 5:43 PM - 31 March, 2006
Nobs, thanks, got it now. But it seems like DJMark means something different (if I got it correct)

Mark, what part of the cartdridge is aligned wrong? Is it that the needle is too low? The tonarm too long? I dont get it, sorry.
Stuart Ramdeen 10:03 PM - 31 March, 2006
Quote:
We are very serious about our name and quality. We have never nor will we ever make a product that doesn't live up to our standards. Most importantly, if Sam reccomends we make any changes, we will.


Man, I love Ortofon!

Hey BigBopper :-), it was nice to meet you after all these years at PLASA '05 (I was with DJ Pulse from Pioneer) and to put a face to the name from back in the day on the Pioneer forums.

Stuart
London, UK
nobspangle 11:00 PM - 1 April, 2006
Nik,
What DJMark is talking about is the needle sitting straight in the groove. This can only happen if the headshell is exactly the right length.
On my Vestax deck the concorde seems pretty much spot on. I don't have a technics deck to test but with a Gemini deck the alignment is nowhere near as good.

Here are some pictures showing the alignment tool from www.enjoythemusic.com. In both cases i've lined the needle up with the dot for the first image and then moved the needle to the centre line for the second image. If the alignment is perfect the headshell should be parallel with the lines either side and on the second picture the needle should fall on the dot.

Vestax image 1 www.nobspangle.f2s.com
Vestax image 2 www.nobspangle.f2s.com

Gemini image 1 www.nobspangle.f2s.com
Gemini image 2 www.nobspangle.f2s.com
nik39 11:44 AM - 2 April, 2006
Gotcha, thanks. Where is the alignment tool? The provided link takes me to a search website.
JohnDP1 12:50 PM - 2 April, 2006
...some funky people stole the Digitracks from the Ortofon stand at Musikmesse...uncool!!
DJMark 12:55 PM - 2 April, 2006
You can use a Mobile Fidelity Geo Disk for this alignment...available here:

www.needledoctor.com
nobspangle 2:27 PM - 2 April, 2006
I'm sure the Geo Disk is great but it's $50
The cartridge tool is here www.enjoythemusic.com

Make sure you print it with "page scaling" set to none.

You could also quite easily make your own using a pair of compasses and a ruler.
nik39 5:12 PM - 2 April, 2006
Cool, thanks nobs+Mark.
DJ Sparx 7:16 PM - 2 April, 2006
If you have trouble going to the link...like me...right click and "save target as". This saves the pdf to the drive...then open the pdf from your computer...

Thanks, nobspangle...
Menace 2:39 PM - 3 April, 2006
Quote:
For the concorde (and other similar types), the alignment is part of the design. They got it wrong, at least when installed on a Technics 1200. Both Stanton Groovemasters and Ortofon Concordes showed a significant alignment error when I checked them with my precision alignment tool (an early-80's product called "CartAlign", though one could easily veryfy the same result with the Mobile Fidelity Geodisc which is now back in production.

I can also hear the results: high-frequency distortion from mistracking.


Shouldn`t the Ortofon engeneers know that?!
DJMark 6:36 PM - 3 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
For the concorde (and other similar types), the alignment is part of the design. They got it wrong, at least when installed on a Technics 1200. Both Stanton Groovemasters and Ortofon Concordes showed a significant alignment error when I checked them with my precision alignment tool (an early-80's product called "CartAlign", though one could easily veryfy the same result with the Mobile Fidelity Geodisc which is now back in production.

I can also hear the results: high-frequency distortion from mistracking.


Shouldn`t the Ortofon engeneers know that?!


One would *think* they'd know both that and the pin-spacing issue that has driven many DJ's crazy since the Concordes have existed.

As Nobspangle's pictures illustrate, the alignment would depend on the exact tonearm used...maybe it was designed to be correct on something other than a Technics 1200 tonearm.

To me the entire all-in one "Concorde" form-factor is a bad idea *unless* there's an adjustment for overhang as on the Shure White Labels, or the manufacturer specifies what tonearm the product was designed for.
DeezNotes 6:43 PM - 3 April, 2006
Are the Concordes really not aligned properly (I'm referring to where the needle lies - not the pins)? I haven't used the tool posted above, but when I put them on the while alignment tool that came with my Techs the Concorde was dead on... at least it seemed like it?
DJ Yaz 7:43 PM - 3 April, 2006
Yes, in what way is the alignment off? Can you give me some way to judge this besides buying that tool listed above.
Menace 7:50 PM - 3 April, 2006
Quote:
...maybe it was designed to be correct on something other than a Technics 1200 tonearm..


I would have designed for the Technics because it`s the most popular turntable in the clubs since years and years.
DJMark 7:53 PM - 3 April, 2006
Quote:
Yes, in what way is the alignment off? Can you give me some way to judge this besides buying that tool listed above.


You could try the printed label that nobspangle linked to...although I have some reservations about how accurate something like that could be, given that we're talking about a fairly critical alignment.

The white plastic thing included with the Technics 1200's isn't accurate either, from my experience. Also it only measures overhang, which is only one of several things that need to be measured for correct alignment.
DJ Yaz 8:00 PM - 3 April, 2006
thx. I'll take a look at this.
nobspangle 8:37 PM - 3 April, 2006
DJMark, I don't know too much about this but isn't it just a question of always having the cart at tangent to the groove?

In that case it's very easy for the printed protractor to be acurate. I'd like to see pictures of that tool on a technics deck with a concorde just to see how different it is to my decks.

I reckon it's probably close to how it looks on my Vestax decks.
DJMark 9:16 PM - 3 April, 2006
Quote:
DJMark, I don't know too much about this but isn't it just a question of always having the cart at tangent to the groove?

In that case it's very easy for the printed protractor to be acurate. I'd like to see pictures of that tool on a technics deck with a concorde just to see how different it is to my decks.

I reckon it's probably close to how it looks on my Vestax decks.


When I have time (probably later in the week) I will try to do both some pictures and a more complete explanation. I don't own any of the Concorde cartridges, so I'll have to borrow one somewhere.
nik39 8:47 AM - 4 April, 2006
It would be nice if you could add the info to the SSL wiki as well.
DeezNotes 1:23 PM - 4 April, 2006
Quote:
The white plastic thing included with the Technics 1200's isn't accurate either, from my experience. Also it only measures overhang, which is only one of several things that need to be measured for correct alignment.


When putting the Concorde on it, the Concorde is straight and the overhang is at the 52mm mark (I think that's what it's supposed to be). Therefore, I thought the Concorde was aligned properly, but I can understand the need for more alignment tests.

However, when mounting the OM (or similar cartridge), it's difficult to use the white thing to set the angle. If I look at the white thing, the needle may be lined up with the arrow, but if I look at the screws in the headshell they're slanted.

So, I guess I can agree with you on this one.
DJ Dynamight 4:28 PM - 4 April, 2006
So--just to make sure I can still read correctly--the alignment with a Concorde needle is correct once mounted on a straight tonearm such as on nobspangle's Vestax? But on a S-shaped tonearm such as nobspangle's Gemini, the concorde is not parallel with the alignment tool.

Mounting the OM Ortofon on a Technics headshell on the other hand will correct this issue, correct?
Gus Scherer 6:18 PM - 5 April, 2006
First, great to see A-Sides here, one of the best drum and bass name on actual scene.

Second, i´m wondering about this new Ortofon DigiTrack.
Who distribute Ortofon products in Brasil ?? When it will be available?
robosapien 4:08 AM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
So--just to make sure I can still read correctly--the alignment with a Concorde needle is correct once mounted on a straight tonearm such as on nobspangle's Vestax? But on a S-shaped tonearm such as nobspangle's Gemini, the concorde is not parallel with the alignment tool.


I was wondering the same thing myself!

On a side note OrtofonUSA has definitely come off like a fool by only plugging a product and not being able to answer any technical questions about it!
punosion 4:14 AM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
On a side note OrtofonUSA has definitely come off like a fool by only plugging a product and not being able to answer any technical questions about it!


So does he get paid to work for Ortofon and do his job, or does he get paid to sit on this board and answer our questions?
DJ Sparx 6:33 AM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
So does he get paid to work for Ortofon and do his job, or does he get paid to sit on this board and answer our questions?


Good comment punosion!! He answers our questions here as a courtesy...not an obligation.
Menace 2:31 PM - 7 April, 2006
yeah, the last answer was more than 3 weeks ago

BTW, after the bad results I would be quiet, too :-)
punosion 3:19 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
yeah, the last answer was more than 3 weeks ago

BTW, after the bad results I would be quiet, too :-)


He hasn't remained quiet since the review was posted.

Quote:
So does he get paid to work for Ortofon and do his job, or does he get paid to sit on this board and answer our questions?
Menace 3:22 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:

He hasn't remained quiet since the review was posted.


It depends if you mean the first review or the following bad comments.
s42000 3:37 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
yeah, the last answer was more than 3 weeks ago

BTW, after the bad results I would be quiet, too :-)


SO BROKEBACK ......grrrrr

After pluging a product, common courtesy requires that you hang around and answer questions.
punosion 4:45 PM - 7 April, 2006
So, do the engineers that he asked work for him or you? Or do they work for Ortofon?
DJ Sparx 5:34 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:

He hasn't remained quiet since the review was posted.


It depends if you mean the first review or the following bad comments.


I would suspect that he is doing his REAL job and doesn't have time to make comments. It happens....
nik39 6:24 PM - 7 April, 2006
Guys, relax. I would like to hear a "response" too, but he was also at the Musikmesse touring around the world. So give him a break. He will certainly catch up, if not, find out his email address and send him a message.
punosion 7:06 PM - 7 April, 2006
Give 'em an inch and they'll expect a mile...
Menace 7:09 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
Give 'em an inch and they'll expect a mile...


??? What are you talking about ???
nik39 7:15 PM - 7 April, 2006
Gib ihm die Hand, er nimmt den ganzen Arm. Das ist die Übersetzung.
Menace 7:16 PM - 7 April, 2006
I meant the context, not the translation.
nik39 7:19 PM - 7 April, 2006
Isnt the context obvious? OrtofonUSA was answering some questions. *some* questions. He is not hanging out the whole day on this forum.
Menace 7:34 PM - 7 April, 2006
Okay, obviously I wasn`t meant because it`s not the problem for me if he doesn`t answer and I really don`t care what he is doing the whole day.

I do care about the bad working Digitracks, though. I also care about spending a double price for Ortofon`s at a time they will released in Europe.

So far I am waiting for some more objective feedbacks of other Digitrack owners. The feedbacks I read until now were rather negative than positive.
punosion 7:34 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
??? What are you talking about ???


He's given quite a bit of information to us on this forum (as well as a sample to a skeptic whose full review is still pending), now people are taking him to task for not answering questions when they have NO CLUE what he's even doing. I do, at a general level--he's doing his job. People wouldn't be giving him all sorts of shit for not answering specific questions if he wasn't even here, so they're expecting way too much.
Menace 7:36 PM - 7 April, 2006
I just expect working needles - no more.
punosion 7:37 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
Okay, obviously I wasn`t meant because it`s not the problem for me if he doesn`t answer and I really don`t care what he is doing the whole day.

I do care about the bad working Digitracks, though. I also care about spending a double price for Ortofon`s at a time they will released in Europe.

So far I am waiting for some more objective feedbacks of other Digitrack owners. The feedbacks I read until now were rather negative than positive.


More than half the comments I've read from people who actually have them were positive.
Menace 7:41 PM - 7 April, 2006
Sorry, I just read one positive feedback of a sides.
nik39 7:43 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
More than half the comments I've read from people who actually have them were positive.

Its the opposite over here.
DeezNotes 7:47 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
(as well as a sample to a skeptic whose full review is still pending)


I would like to apologize for the delay guys. Exams have been kicking my ass along with work from the day job along with gigs... but now I'm on spring break from school, so I'll have more time to get this done.

For the next set of tests, I really wanted to focus only on testing. It's going to take a pencil, pad and a clock to log one of the upcoming tests and it's hard to do that when you've got a lot going on.
robosapien 7:49 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
After pluging a product, common courtesy requires that you hang around and answer questions.


Exactly! It's not that I expect the guy to answer each and every question. It would just make sense to me from a business stand point to be willing to answer some technical questions about a product if you are going to go onto a forum and plug it. This is how I believe good business is conducted. But let's not waste our time arguing about it!

So can anyone tell if if there is any problem alignment using a concorde on a straight tone arm? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
DeezNotes 7:52 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
So can anyone tell if if there is any problem alignment using a concorde on a straight tone arm? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


I don't know about the straight arm, but for Ortofons in general I would never go back to the Concorde. OM ONLY. After using Concordes, then OMs, then receiving the Digitrack Concordes, it reminded me of how much I LOVE OM Ortofons!
Menace 7:58 PM - 7 April, 2006
I would love working CC or OM Digitrack Ortofon`s :-) .
DJ White Lightning 8:46 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
I just expect working needles - no more.


I bought a pair of the concorde digi track yesterday before my gig last night. I wanted the OMs but they were not available. Used them all night -- Completely awesome. Definate signal boost (I LOVE THAT) since we all know SSL has a lower signal than real vinyl, these needles make up for all that and more. they tracked VERY nicely and sounded great all night - all my friends who know my set up noticed the loudness difference also. Only problem was the first needle on one of the concords was broken, scope in serato on broken needle side reflected this. Changed needle (it came with a replacement thank God) and it was awesome all night. I love these needles ;)
Menace 8:59 PM - 7 April, 2006
So it came with a broken needle? One stylus costs about 55 $.
punosion 9:02 PM - 7 April, 2006
Quote:
Exactly! It's not that I expect the guy to answer each and every question. It would just make sense to me from a business stand point to be willing to answer some technical questions about a product if you are going to go onto a forum and plug it. This is how I believe good business is conducted. But let's not waste our time arguing about it!


Show me where he gave you a timeframe for answering your questions. You can expect a reply because he said he'd check up on it, and he hasn't refused a reply or just fed you bullshit. Like I've been saying...more than likely he's been busy doing the more important parts of his job...you know, the parts he's actually employed to do.
DJ Sparx 12:30 AM - 8 April, 2006
Quote:
Only problem was the first needle on one of the concords was broken, scope in serato on broken needle side reflected this. Changed needle (it came with a replacement thank God) and it was awesome all night. I love these needles ;)


I had a similar problem. And since the "kit" has an extra stylus, I was able to change it. But really, you really shouldn't have to change a stylus after 6 hours of playing. I was a little miffed about having to change the stylus on a "new" cartridge. I hope that Ortofon can honor some type of exchange.
DJ White Lightning 12:55 AM - 8 April, 2006
I am just gonna take it back to Yawnie @ Quality electronics in Hollywood, CA and he will replace it for me. Its a good store and they take care of their customers. But yea that is odd that 2 kits have been fucked up. Not a good average.
robosapien 3:21 AM - 8 April, 2006
So the bigger circles in scope view the better? Are the size of the circles only representative to the cartridge output volume or could a cartridge with a lower output have equal or larger size circles? I imagine the downside of having a higher output is that you will get more distortion when your records start to wear? Record wear is a factor unlike what Mr. Ortofon had to say correct? (If this is true it's hard to believe that the Ortofon engineers would believe this) Couldn't you just amplify the signal from the turntable pre SSL to get better performance with a higher output? I'm just trying to find out how important the output volume is and how it exactly corresponds with the circles in scope view. Thanks again!
nik39 3:36 AM - 8 April, 2006
Quote:
Are the size of the circles only representative to the cartridge output volume

Yes. Thats the resulting output volume determined by stylus and body.

Quote:
Couldn't you just amplify the signal from the turntable pre SSL to get better performance with a higher output?

That will increase the noise as well.
robosapien 5:01 AM - 8 April, 2006
Thanks for the info nik39! So I guess the real question is how much a higher output really improves SSL performance?
robosapien 5:19 AM - 8 April, 2006
Also is a cartridges ouput voltage the only factor in the output volume?
Menace 9:55 AM - 8 April, 2006
Quote:
I am just gonna take it back to Yawnie @ Quality electronics in Hollywood, CA and he will replace it for me. Its a good store and they take care of their customers. But yea that is odd that 2 kits have been fucked up. Not a good average.


Very odd and a very bad average so far. And we shouldn`t forget that it will be always hard to prove that the needle was broken already when the needle/stylus was bought. Not everybody can expect such a customer friendly store which replaces it for free.
DJ White Lightning 10:51 AM - 8 April, 2006
Yup - thats why I gave him a plug - LoL - good store.
nik39 11:47 AM - 8 April, 2006
Quote:
Also is a cartridges ouput voltage the only factor in the output volume?

If you have the same speed of record movement - yes.
nobspangle 10:55 AM - 9 April, 2006
Quote:
So--just to make sure I can still read correctly--the alignment with a Concorde needle is correct once mounted on a straight tonearm such as on nobspangle's Vestax? But on a S-shaped tonearm such as nobspangle's Gemini, the concorde is not parallel with the alignment tool.


My Vestax decks don't have straight tonearms, they are S shaped. My point was that the concorde wouldn't be perfect on every deck. I don't have a technics deck, but I would assume it is much closer to being correct.
DJ Sparx 7:53 PM - 9 April, 2006
I contacted PSSL on the problem. Although carts are not returnable and not warrantied, the customer service rep said that Ortofon is very good at customer relations and replacements. I hope this is correct.
s42000 4:34 PM - 10 April, 2006
Quote:
...more than likely he's been busy doing the more important parts of his job...you know, the parts he's actually employed to do.


I'd imagine pluging a product to the intended audience and potential customers, and answering questions on the product definately qualifies as a very very important part of his job.

WE(ALL DJ's SSL or not) dont BUY, HE NOT get paid.
Menace 6:40 PM - 10 April, 2006
... especially if no cent has to be paid for using this forum for advertising a new product.
nik39 6:44 PM - 10 April, 2006
You know that advertising other products are not allowed by the forum rules. Besides this have you ever heard of other costs.. due to loss of productivity? Menace, you were the guy sending him PMs over and over again. This guy may also have other things to do. *eyesroll*
Menace 6:47 PM - 10 April, 2006
I did NOT send him PM`s over and over again. I thought we got that already. Nik39, first think and then write. Thanks.
DJ Dynamight 8:54 PM - 10 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
So--just to make sure I can still read correctly--the alignment with a Concorde needle is correct once mounted on a straight tonearm such as on nobspangle's Vestax? But on a S-shaped tonearm such as nobspangle's Gemini, the concorde is not parallel with the alignment tool.


My Vestax decks don't have straight tonearms, they are S shaped. My point was that the concorde wouldn't be perfect on every deck. I don't have a technics deck, but I would assume it is much closer to being correct.


my fault...I thought Vestax's decks were all straight-arm.
OrtofonUSA 1:04 AM - 11 April, 2006
Sorry guys, but I was on the road for 3 weeks including WMC and MusikMesse (btw, nice meeting you Nik). Forgive me for spending 2 days with my wife before I left for another trip today.

Connection isn't the best in my hotel today. I'm switching tomorrow and will answer some questions then.
robosapien 2:12 AM - 11 April, 2006
Thanks again for the info nik39!


Quote:
Sorry guys, but I was on the road for 3 weeks including WMC and MusikMesse


So you actually learned about the product in the process? Pretty amusing but I'm definitely looking forward to actually getting some real information about the DigiTrack!
IanJ 12:05 PM - 11 April, 2006
They look cool which is a good thing, but the simple fact is that they made special carts for "digital vinyl" which means that a lot more people are excepting it as a viable new way to DJ without having to lug around a lp case or crats which can get heavy. I am all in all very happy for Rane/Serato for their luck in having this product now instead of then or later. I am also very happy that Ortofon for staying in close contact with Serato to make sure that they didn't cut any corners. So basicly I wanted to say thank you to Rane, Serato, and Ortofon for having these products for us to enjoy.

IanJ
IanJ 12:06 PM - 11 April, 2006
*not that Ortofon would cut corners or anything...


well maybe if you guys all decided to drift
nik39 5:25 PM - 11 April, 2006
ssl-wiki.help.bootlegs.de <-click. This is a draft. Please let us (Deez+me) know what categories else you would like to see and maybe even better how you would like to have it tested (precise steps please).
OrtofonUSA 11:55 PM - 11 April, 2006
Quote:


So you actually learned about the product in the process? Pretty amusing but I'm definitely looking forward to actually getting some real information about the DigiTrack!



Do you think maybe that posts like this is the reason why manufactuerers spend very little time on chat boards (with the exclusion of their own which the can monitor and edit). Is a smart ass comment really going to encourage me to come here and help the rest of the members out?

If you have a legit question, PM me and I'll be glad to answer. If not, I've got some better ways to spend my time.
OrtofonUSA 11:57 PM - 11 April, 2006
Also,for those of you that think your stylus went bad after a few hours, please double check that you are cleaning your records and needles. We've had a comment like that come into our office and that turned out to be the fix. Remember, an hour with Serato is like 10 records. See if this fixes things because a stylus doesn't just fail after a few hours no matter who makes it.

If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll take care of you.
DJ Yaz 12:30 AM - 12 April, 2006
Thanks for coming on here and answering our questions directly. It is very brave of you to deal with all the nuts on here and we appreciate that you do. Hopefully you will see that the majority of people on here are just watching most of the time, and we are not really listening much to the people who are always making trouble.

I respect you and you're products and on behalf of the reasonable people on this forum I thank you for making yourself available for questions.

If I need to talk with you I will for sure send you a PM.
DJ MDX 1:11 AM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrtofonUSA

If you have a legit question, PM me and I'll be glad to answer. If not, I've got some better ways to spend my time.



Can you please answer mine then? I have been patiently waiting for a little over a month.

Someone seems to have dropped the ball on what we had discussed back on March 1, 2006.

Thanks again,
DJ MDX
DJ FLAME 1:19 AM - 12 April, 2006
so what will be the price on these bad boys?
nik39 1:20 AM - 12 April, 2006
MSRP in the states is $239 for one cart+styles+box, PSSL sells them for $179.
DJ Sparx 2:17 AM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Also,for those of you that think your stylus went bad after a few hours, please double check that you are cleaning your records and needles. We've had a comment like that come into our office and that turned out to be the fix. Remember, an hour with Serato is like 10 records. See if this fixes things because a stylus doesn't just fail after a few hours no matter who makes it.

If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll take care of you.


Thanks for the comment. I did use groove glide on the vinyl prior to playing each time I played and I brushed the stylus. I am moving this weekend so I haven't uncrated the equipment since WMC, but I will check on this after this weekend. Thanks again for your input and if I have further problems I will send you a PM.
robosapien 3:00 AM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Do you think maybe that posts like this is the reason why manufactuerers spend very little time on chat boards (with the exclusion of their own which the can monitor and edit). Is a smart ass comment really going to encourage me to come here and help the rest of the members out?


And to think I actually believed you were going to redeem yourself! Instead you try to blame your incompetence on me. Ortofon should hire a rep that actually knows about their products!
DJ Sparx 5:45 AM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:

And to think I actually believed you were going to redeem yourself! Instead you try to blame your incompetence on me. Ortofon should hire a rep that actually knows about their products!


Send in your application if you think you can do a better job and have better qualifications....
punosion 2:19 PM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
And to think I actually believed you were going to redeem yourself! Instead you try to blame your incompetence on me. Ortofon should hire a rep that actually knows about their products!


Hmm, I somehow missed your questions about the carts...

...lemme' check again...nope, not seeing them.
DJ Sparx 5:06 PM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Thanks for the info nik39! So I guess the real question is how much a higher output really improves SSL performance?


punosion...this was the only question I saw...
DJ Sparx 5:07 PM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Also is a cartridges ouput voltage the only factor in the output volume?


and this one
Menace 5:09 PM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
Also,for those of you that think your stylus went bad after a few hours, please double check that you are cleaning your records and needles.


The problems so far I was reading here with the Digitracks were definately no dirty record issues. I would like to know if the replaced needles work again after they got cleaned.
punosion 5:54 PM - 12 April, 2006
Quote:
punosion...this was the only question I saw...


Yeah but those were about needles and SSL in general, not specifically about the product in discussion here...so to expect an answer on those two questions from OrtofonUSA would be a bit foolish.
DJ Sparx 9:00 PM - 12 April, 2006
[quote
Yeah but those were about needles and SSL in general, not specifically about the product in discussion here...so to expect an answer on those two questions from OrtofonUSA would be a bit foolish.

Oh...I agree totally...
DjXquizit 2:57 AM - 13 April, 2006
ok there is wayyyyy too much to read.. i tried to read as much as i could but I got tired of it, especially when the ortofon dude started givin attitude to menace.

neways i've been using ortofon nightclubs for the last 5 years and I've never once ran into a problem at a gig (i do about 5-6 a month).. when I switched to serato, i bought brand new nightclubs, even though i know the needle of choice was the m-447.. theyve worked flawlessly with my regular vinyls and my control vinyls.. i even decided to try screwin around with my old nightclub cartridges to see how they would do, and i had perfect and equal sound levels and it didn't skip when i scratched a lil rough.. from what ive read from djsparx and deeznotes, i really don't see a reason to swap it out just cuz theyre red and match the whole serato theme lol.. i personally prefer the bright tips of the nightclub, esp. when the black lights are on.
robosapien 4:22 AM - 13 April, 2006
I never said I was waiting to get any questions answered. I was just speaking about how the Ortofon Rep has only been able to provide general info about the new cartridge since the very beginning. I don't understand why anyone would want to stand up for him when this is simple fact and he has been a smart ass to other members of the forum.
click 5:07 AM - 13 April, 2006
Quote:
Okay, obviously I wasn`t meant because it`s not the problem for me if he doesn`t answer and I really don`t care what he is doing the whole day.

I do care about the bad working Digitracks, though. I also care about spending a double price for Ortofon`s at a time they will released in Europe.

So far I am waiting for some more objective feedbacks of other Digitrack owners. The feedbacks I read until now were rather negative than positive.


I'd be pissed too if I was embarrassed in public for sendin 19 PMs in a day (but don't make it so obvious)
Menace 4:51 PM - 13 April, 2006
Click, think whatever you want. All together he just got 7 PM`s from me within a few days. Between these PM`s I`ve got some answers, too.

So don`t make yourself a fool like your buddy Nik39.
nik39 4:53 PM - 13 April, 2006
You are so cute :) May I call you "Dennis", Menace? :)
Menace 4:54 PM - 13 April, 2006
*eyesroll*
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 7:23 PM - 13 April, 2006
Quote:
ok there is wayyyyy too much to read.. i tried to read as much as i could but I got tired of it, especially when the ortofon dude started givin attitude to menace.

neways i've been using ortofon nightclubs for the last 5 years and I've never once ran into a problem at a gig (i do about 5-6 a month).. when I switched to serato, i bought brand new nightclubs, even though i know the needle of choice was the m-447.. theyve worked flawlessly with my regular vinyls and my control vinyls.. i even decided to try screwin around with my old nightclub cartridges to see how they would do, and i had perfect and equal sound levels and it didn't skip when i scratched a lil rough.. from what ive read from djsparx and deeznotes, i really don't see a reason to swap it out just cuz theyre red and match the whole serato theme lol.. i personally prefer the bright tips of the nightclub, esp. when the black lights are on.


^^ dittoe (except for the 5-6 gigs a month :)
nobspangle 10:32 PM - 14 April, 2006
Quote:
You are so cute :) May I call you "Dennis", Menace? :)

I hope you mean this Dennis en.wikipedia.org

As prefered by Mark (Use the force) Hamill
DJ Yaz 11:24 PM - 14 April, 2006
funny funny. Can we stay on track :) Does anyone have any objective feedback to ad on the needles. I still don't feel like I've got answers.
click 11:31 PM - 14 April, 2006
Quote:
BTW Menace-
I don't sit here all day on the boards. No need to PM me 9 times in 24 hours.


I will admit, the brother was a little harsh bring it out in public like that... he could have PMed that to you...
punosion 11:42 PM - 14 April, 2006
Dudes are just crabby in this thread because they didn't get free needles... ;)
Rane, Support
Shaun W 11:55 PM - 14 April, 2006
I just received a pair of the Digitracks. I'll report back after I give them a good test run this weekend.
click 12:09 AM - 15 April, 2006
Quote:
I just received a pair of the Digitracks. I'll report back after I give them a good test run this weekend.


that's cool... but try not to 'forget' like this cat seemed to have...

Quote:
I have a pair kindly given to me by the guys at Ortofon. We're testing them, and we'll let you know what we think.
DeezNotes 12:26 AM - 15 April, 2006
I'll be honest with you guys... I haven't done the hardcore vinyl burn-in test yet, but what I CAN tell you is that the skip resistance isn't as good as the Scratch carts; the output is louder than the Scratch carts; last but not least record wear is VERY high. Playing normal vinyl sounds GREAT! Most Ortofons sound good anyway - even the Scratch carts. I haven't had time to compare them to my 44-7s yet. I know a lot of you have those carts, but I get mad when I put them on. Sorry.
robosapien 7:40 AM - 15 April, 2006
I'm confused to as what cartridge features improve the sound quality and performance off SSL? From what I gather Serato recommends Shure M447's because they have a high output voltage and track well.

Does a higher output increase the sound quality of SSL or just prevent drop outs? Could it actually make quality worse with a higher output if the record is really worn out or dirty/dusty? Wouldn't a cartridge with a higher frequency response to the SSL tone also help? (I also assume that low frequency response doesn't matter)

I question how much of a difference output makes or you'd think that Serato would suggest the new Q-Berts and the Digi Tracks wouldn't be as low. I would also think that Serato would suggest using a pre amp to boast the signal or have the box do it.

Does it really matter to have better tracking if you are going to use relative mode? I also hear that static build up can cause problems. This makes me wonder if slip mats like butter rugs could become an issue at times.

The Ortofon guys claims that the Digi Tracks were actually made with SSL specifically in mind but doesn't seem like he knows what cartridge features actually improve SSL. Sounds like a gimmick to me and that acartridge can only have a marginal affect on SSL.
DJ Yaz 10:10 AM - 15 April, 2006
Quote:
I just received a pair of the Digitracks. I'll report back after I give them a good test run this weekend.


I look forward to your feedback!
nobspangle 10:37 AM - 15 April, 2006
robosapien,
A decent cart for SSL has to be a balance of features. The output should be high as this helps for slow scratches and it should give a better SNR. However the output can't be too high as this will distort the control signal especially when cueing quickly.
It needs to track well (obviously)
record wear ideally should be low, but this isn't too much of a problem as you're not wearing out rare vinyl, the control records can easily be replaced.
Frequency response is required across most of the spectrum as scratching slowly produces low frequencies and scratching quickly produces high frequencies. Maybe there should be a bit of a bass boost as the output voltage will always be lower when scratching slowly. However this has to be balanced the danger of enhancing low frequencies caused by vibrations in the platter.

Better tracking is important in relative mode as it prevents sticker drift.
Stuart Ramdeen 1:19 PM - 15 April, 2006
Quote:
Does a higher output increase the sound quality of SSL or just prevent drop outs?


robo, nobspangle already gave a good explanation but I will elaborate a bit on the SNR:

A higher output cartridge will mean that you can run with an increased threshold but still be able to perform slow record movements/slow scratches. Why would you need this? Because in a club/bar environment, the noise & vibrations can be so great that they're transmitted through to the decks, thus affecting the quality of the control signal that the SSL box receives. If your carts kick out enough volume, you can increase the threshold so that SSL will ignore this noise but still receive the control signal ok and track the record at slow speeds.

Stu

PS, I totally agree with

Quote:
neways i've been using ortofon nightclubs for the last 5 years and I've never once ran into a problem at a gig (i do about 5-6 a month).. when I switched to serato, i bought brand new nightclubs, even though i know the needle of choice was the m-447.. theyve worked flawlessly with my regular vinyls and my control vinyls.. i even decided to try screwin around with my old nightclub cartridges to see how they would do, and i had perfect and equal sound levels and it didn't skip when i scratched a lil rough.. from what ive read from djsparx and deeznotes, i really don't see a reason to swap it out just cuz theyre red and match the whole serato theme lol.. i personally prefer the bright tips of the nightclub, esp. when the black lights are on.


I LOVE my concorde nightclubs!
robosapien 7:30 PM - 15 April, 2006
Thanks for the info guys! What is sticker drift? Is the output on the Q-Bert cartridges too high for SSL? Aren't the Digi Tracks too low?
DeezNotes 9:06 PM - 15 April, 2006
The Digitracks aren't low at all. I've always felt that 7mv was a perfect output level. Anything below that was too low and anything above that was rather loud. The Digitracks are MUCH louder than the Scratch needles and that's only a few mv difference.
robosapien 9:20 PM - 15 April, 2006
Then I wonder why Serato recommends the Shure M44-7 with a 9.5mv output?
nik39 9:23 PM - 15 April, 2006
Quote:
The Digitracks are MUCH louder than the Scratch needles and that's only a few mv difference.

You mean compared to the q-berts or the original scratch needles?
robosapien 10:02 PM - 15 April, 2006
I'm assuming DeezNotes meant the the Scratch because it has a lower ouput. The Digi Track is only higher by 1mv so I don't know how it could be much louder however.
DeezNotes 1:37 AM - 16 April, 2006
Yes, I meant the Ortofon Pink Scratch needles. You can see the higher output on my mixer and the scope display from the pics of the review.
DJ Yaz 11:09 AM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
Thanks for the info guys! What is sticker drift? Is the output on the Q-Bert cartridges too high for SSL? Aren't the Digi Tracks too low?


I have the Qberts and they work well, although the needles tend to ware out quickly.
robosapien 6:55 PM - 16 April, 2006
Thanks for the info Yaz!
DJ Yaz 7:24 PM - 16 April, 2006
My Pleasure :)

You know I have used Nightclubs, Qberts & The Shure's and the Shure's are extremely good. No dis to the Qberts which are an excelent needle, or the nightclubs which are nice.

It's the spring loaded aspect of the Shure that is so nice. It tracks very well and they tend to last at least twice as long as the Ortofon needles I've used. I am extremely rough on needles though, and others may have a different experience?

It's also worth noting that the Qberts are amazing on real vinyl. They make my scratching sound better, they just pick up more nuances of the scratch. The rubber arms on them are also very nice, it allows you to grab the needle very roughly to pull it off the record. This seems like a minor thing but it's really a delight when you are trying to wflip tracks very fast. They also sound great for recording vinyl into my laptop, where as the Shure's are GARBAGE when it comes to recording.

I'm looking forward to Shaun's review of the Digitrak. I think the most anticipated aspect of his review will be wear. It may take him awhile to asses the wear? And we have to remember he got the needles for free so he can't be too harsh. :)

I think the issue with needles now is that if you are a serious DJ you are going to have to have an array of needles. In the past you could get away with two good ones. Ideally now it's best to have many. Like a samuri with several swords :) I think now you want a pair for Serato, a pair for standard vinyl and at least one dedicated to recording. Maybe more? That way you can pick the best weapon for what you are doing at the time, rather than some compromise needle that isn't the best at anything.

The needle guys have probably thought about this a lot.

Does anyone know if Shure has a patent on the spring loaded needle? It would love to have a Qbert level needle in a shure style spring loaded mechanism. That would really be the sh*t!
DJ Yaz 7:28 PM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
I have a pair kindly given to me by the guys at Ortofon. We're testing them, and we'll let you know what we think.


Sam, do you have any thoughts since this post from Feb 1st?
nik39 8:13 PM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
Does anyone know if Shure has a patent on the spring loaded needle? It would love to have a Qbert level needle in a shure style spring loaded mechanism.

Which spring loaded mechanism are you referring to?
robosapien 8:36 PM - 16 April, 2006
Do you hear a difference in sound quality and get better record response when using higher output cartridges compared to lower output ones Yaz? I assume you could just amplify the audio out from the turntable pre SSL to boast the tone signal and this would be the same? I also assume that frequency response doesn't really make a huge difference? I'm just trying to figure out if a cartridge can really make a big difference. Knowing how SSL works would help. Can anyone direct me to any discussions on this forum about this? I did a search but didn't find any topics. Thanks again guys!
robosapien 8:49 PM - 16 April, 2006
I would think that you would want actually want a cartridge with a flat frequency response so the signal stays the way it was intended like on CD? Can you hear a difference in sound quality/response with CD compared to vinyl?
DJ Yaz 10:19 PM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Does anyone know if Shure has a patent on the spring loaded needle? It would love to have a Qbert level needle in a shure style spring loaded mechanism.

Which spring loaded mechanism are you referring to?


Nik,

The spring loaded nature of the needle. It is recomended that you set the needle on the record overnight to loosen it before use. The Shures have spring to them it seems. I have never taken one apart but I always assumed there was something in the cartrige that facilited that? Am I wrong?

Robo, as far as the output it helps get better response out of SSL especially in high noise enviroments. I notice it's a lot more about accuracy than total output. Good needles have a good clean signal and work well with SSL. The total output isn't the biggest factor in my experience, it's having a clean signal. You will see the lines in your setup screen will be very tight and defined in a perfect circle with a good pair of needles.
robosapien 10:31 PM - 16 April, 2006
How does a higher output help in a loud environment? I would think that a higher output would pick up more background noise?
nik39 10:33 PM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
The spring loaded nature of the needle. It is recomended that you set the needle on the record overnight to loosen it before use. The Shures have spring to them it seems.

I thought thats how needles work in general. Are you sure this is something unique to the Shure needles?
nobspangle 10:34 PM - 16 April, 2006
A higher output will pick up more noise (rumble etc.) from the deck. However it won't amplify the noise picked up as interferance in the deck or by the cable on the way to the SL1. What you end up with is a better ratio between the noise picked up electronicaly, and the control signal. There is not a lot you can do about the mechanical noise.
robosapien 11:03 PM - 16 April, 2006
Thanks for the explanation nobspangle but I don't understand. Could you please elaborate?
DJ Yaz 11:04 PM - 16 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
The spring loaded nature of the needle. It is recomended that you set the needle on the record overnight to loosen it before use. The Shures have spring to them it seems.

I thought thats how needles work in general. Are you sure this is something unique to the Shure needles?


I'm not sure. I'll take one apart and see.
Soba 11:08 PM - 16 April, 2006
It's not unique to Shure, all styli have some form of suspension. It's a rubber damper, not a spring. Shure's 44 series ones are really good, hence their excellent sticking.
DJ Yaz 2:48 AM - 17 April, 2006
Quote:
It's not unique to Shure, all styli have some form of suspension. It's a rubber damper, not a spring. Shure's 44 series ones are really good, hence their excellent sticking.


Thanks for info
Rane, Support
Shaun W 3:59 PM - 19 April, 2006
I had only a brief time to test the Digitracks, so I really don't have a lot of feedback, but here is what I found so far.

1. The output level is very loud, which is excellent when using the CV02 control records.

2. The tracking isn't noticeably different from the DJ (blue) concords or the NightClub (black) concords, that is, once you set the weight, height, and anti-skating correctly.

3. Normal record playback sounds clean and clear with no noticeable difference in fidelity between the other Ortofon carts mentioned above.

I'll get more time this weekend to compair the Digitracks to the Shure Whitelabels, Stanton 500s, 680s, 890s and old school Track Masters.
DJ Dynamight 4:02 PM - 19 April, 2006
Cool, thanks Shaun.
Menace 4:45 PM - 19 April, 2006
Shaun, please compare them with the recommended Shure M44-7`s, too. Thanks.
DeezNotes 5:07 PM - 19 April, 2006
Quote:
Shaun, please compare them with the recommended Shure M44-7`s, too. Thanks.


It's a little discouraging when I think of the detail of tests some would like us to perform; that's why I try to keep the tests somewhat simple.

What I can tell you right off is:

-The 44-7's output is higher. Not sure of the benefit here...
-Ortofon's overall sound quality is better than the 44-7 in my opinion.
-Wear is MUCH worse with the Digitrack.
-Skip resistance is like Shaun and I have said: the same as the black/silver/blue/nightclub carts.
-Skip resistance was improved with the Scratch carts (pink) - not sure about the Q-Berts.
-I prefer the pink Scratch carts over 44-7's, but again that's my opinion.

I'm guessing that the only thing the Digitrack may have over the other needles is that it can somehow produce a more reliable control signal to SSL? If this is true, I don't see the added cost making up the difference; especially when adding record wear. Did I say record wear was really bad with the Digitracks?
nik39 5:13 PM - 19 April, 2006
Deez, didnt you want to update or add our test parcour? I'm still waiting (yeah... I know you're busy :) ).
DeezNotes 5:13 PM - 19 April, 2006
What I'd really like to see is a plain English explaination of the difference in carts on Ortofon's web site much like the way Shure did it.

All those technical specs don't mean much to me, but I'm sure they are pretty important. A nice comparison chart would be nice too.

They have a lot of needles and it would help us DJs out when it comes to picking the Digitrack vs. Q-Bert vs. Scratch vs. Electro vs. DJ vs. Nightclub vs. Pro Black vs. Pro Silver vs. Gold (which is the Nightclub I think?)
DeezNotes 5:18 PM - 19 April, 2006
Quote:
Deez, didnt you want to update or add our test parcour? I'm still waiting (yeah... I know you're busy :) ).


Yeah, but like I said... it's easy to set aside a small amount of time to perform short tests rather than long burn-in-type tests (at least for me anyway). As much as I want to I can never find the time.

When it comes down to it (so far anyway), I wouldn't buy them. If I did, I'd return them. That's the honest truth. So far, I like the Scratch better for record wear and needle stability. If the Q needle was stable like the Scratch (very important to me) and had the equal or lesser record wear, I would switch to those IF the Scratch cart fell off their product line.
DeezNotes 5:23 PM - 19 April, 2006
As for dust problems, I only have that problem in dusty environments - like the club. When using Gruv Glide when archiving my records, I NEVER (and I mean NEVER) have to wipe the needle like I used to (before purchasing Gruv Glide). Even when I clean my records with it before I start at the club, mid-way through they get dusty so I don't think that's an Ortofon issue.

As for control record response... the only time I've had an issue was with shitty turntables. We're talking plastic belt-drive Numark turntables. This was side-by-side with a 1200 at a club and I could see plain as day the tracking was half as much as the 12 on the shitty turntable. This was using Scratch carts.

I honestly believe if you have a half-decent cart putting out 5-6mv or higher, SSL will WORK. I'd worry more about your CPU or RAM before I start worrying about your cart... unless you use shitty plastic Fisher Price turntables.
nik39 5:29 PM - 19 April, 2006
You own right now the pink Scratch and the red Digitrack, correct?
Menace 5:38 PM - 19 April, 2006
plus the Shures M44-7!
DeezNotes 5:40 PM - 19 April, 2006
Yeah... I have since misplaced my Black and Silver Pro + Blue DJ concordes (the Scratch is that much better). Oh, and I also had Stanton 500s, Pickering PD07C (I think) and Shure M35C's back in the day. I still have a Stanton 890 as well, but I'm waiting for someone to ask me for a cart to donate to give that POS away.
nik39 5:46 PM - 19 April, 2006
Hm.

If there would be some help about how to do the tests I would appreciate it, esp from you Menace, as you insist in comparing the carts. How would you value the results if you dont know how the testing procedure looked like? I expect some words from you.

I own the Shures, blue DJ pro S+E, Q's and the red digitracks. Ready for a breakdown, but as said before... need some assistance. I aint going to spend ten hours on testing them just that some jerks comes back afterwards complaining "hey, that was useless, why didnt you check this+that". Hope thats reasonable.
DeezNotes 5:51 PM - 19 April, 2006
That's reasonable to me.

I got a question for you nik... how is skip resistance when comparing the Q vs. the DJ and the Digitrack? From what I've noticed, the DJ and the Digitrack should be about the same as far as skip resistance. The needle kinda "wobbles" a bit which causes it to jump out of the groove at times. With the Scratch needle, the needle doesn't wobble as much - there is a little, but the reduced wobble increases skip resistance. Does the description of the Scratch I just gave sound like the Q needle?

Thanks.
Menace 5:52 PM - 19 April, 2006
Nik39, I didn`t ask you for anything and I never will. I also can`t help you with tests because I don`t have the Digitracks.

I just wait for more results - if you let me. Thanks.
nik39 5:56 PM - 19 April, 2006
Okay, *switching back to kindergarten mode*

I didnt say you were asking me, you asked other people, but you lack of coming up with what you would like to see compared and how you would like to see it compared. I didnt say you should help me comparing them, I asked for what your criterias would look like, so I can do an appropriate test. For that you dont need to own the digitracks.

*eyes roll*
Menace 6:01 PM - 19 April, 2006
Nik39, STOP. Thanks

You are getting on my nerves.
DeezNotes 6:45 PM - 19 April, 2006
All beef aside, if there's anything you'd like me [or us] to add to what's already been written, please let us know.

I know there's a 44-7 vs. Digitrack request out there, but I tried to cover what I already know about the two for what I feel are the most important characteristics when purchasing a DJ needle. I'm sure I could go into more detail, but I'd prefer not to geek out too much on this if possible.

I hope what I've posted so far has been some help. If I can do anything else, please let me know. Did I say record wear sucks?
Menace 6:56 PM - 19 April, 2006
Thanks DeezNotes :-)
nik39 7:13 PM - 19 April, 2006
Quote:
Nik39, STOP. Thanks

You are getting on my nerves.

No need to act like a menace, Dennis. You are the most conterproductive guy I've met for a long time. Put your childish comments and that beef aside. If you want to contribute to a good test, do it. Otherwise stop complaining around that OrtofonUSA is not responding to your questions and not giving an accurate comparison.
Menace 7:19 PM - 19 April, 2006
Nik39, who is in the Kindergarten? Look at your postings.

Can I just use this thread to keep informed about the Digitracks?

Thanks.

I can`t believe how you act all the time *eyes roll*.

PLEASE, leave me alone. How often do you want me to repeat this?
DJ Yaz 9:40 PM - 19 April, 2006
Gentlemen, for all of our benefit can we please stay on topic. If you have personal issues to discuss please use the PM feature. Thanks.
nik39 9:42 PM - 19 April, 2006
Yaz, do you have some ideas for a good objective comparison?
nobspangle 9:59 PM - 19 April, 2006
I'd like to know how the digitrack compares to the M44-7 when cueing SSL fast. And which performs better when doing spinbacks in relative mode, the problem I have (especially as the vinyl starts to wear) is that the sticker slip means you have to wind the record back much further than you should do.
nik39 10:05 PM - 19 April, 2006
nobs, you got any ideas how to nail this down?
DJ Yaz 12:44 AM - 20 April, 2006
Quote:
Yaz, do you have some ideas for a good objective comparison?


Without getting all crazy with it I think it would be very hard to devise a full, complete and accurate test. I am willing to trust the subjective experience of the guys I trust on here. I want to know what people think. Shaun's assesment was helpful, I look forward to hearing more from him.

More and more this is a money issue for me. I can get 44-7 replacements for $25. I think the Ortofon's are not worth the extra money in day to day use unless they are wildly better. In my experience the Q are not wildly better for ssl use so I'm stickin with the Shure. I doubt the Digitracks are a crazy leap ahead.
DJ Sparx 8:04 PM - 20 April, 2006
Quote:
When it comes down to it (so far anyway), I wouldn't buy them. If I did, I'd return them. That's the honest truth. So far, I like the Scratch better for record wear and needle stability. If the Q needle was stable like the Scratch (very important to me) and had the equal or lesser record wear, I would switch to those IF the Scratch cart fell off their product line.


I would return mine since I am really not satisfied with them, however, PSSL doesn't take carts and needles back...so I'm stuck with them. I could use the $375 I spent.
robosapien 5:20 AM - 21 April, 2006
Could any of you please comment on the benefits you have noticed with higher output carts and how much of a difference from lower output ones? I'm still confused as too how much this is a factor when using SSL. Thanks!
robosapien 5:24 AM - 21 April, 2006
Also what is the best tone arm height and weight to use for scratching with SSL? Does it really make a difference other than record wear? Thanks again!
nobspangle 7:31 AM - 21 April, 2006
Quote:
nobs, you got any ideas how to nail this down?

Not really, I was hoping you would just use the cart a bit and simply offer an opinion. As much as I like scientific fact, it's pretty hard to measure this kind of thing without specialist equipment.

I agree with DJ Yaz on both points, M44-7s are cheap as hell, I'm not bothered about the sound quality and they do stick to the vinyl like glue. I don't see the sense in forking out for new carts + the added expense when replacing needles.

The main thing that seems to affect tracking in SSL is the condition of your control vinyl. If the Ortofons do cause more record wear than the Sures then the whole thing is a no brainer.

Ortofon = more record wear = worse tracking = more money on CV

robosapien, the best height and weight to use with SSL are the recommended ones for your carts/needles. It does make a difference especially incorrect weight, this can make your nice circular scopes go a very strange shape. Most DJ carts like 3g of weight, the main exception is the Ortofon Pro which needs 4g.
robosapien 1:26 AM - 22 April, 2006
Thanks for the info nobspangle! Can anyone comment on my question of how a higher output cartridge effects SSL?
nik39 5:58 PM - 22 April, 2006
nobs, makes sense. I'll do some further testing. Out.

robosapien, this has been answered in this thread, please read it completely (leave out the crap kindergarten posts by me and menace).
robosapien 7:10 PM - 22 April, 2006
Thanks nik39! I read over the posts and it makes sense to me now. A higher output helps you use a lower threshold which give you better response. (I'm definitely attention deficit at times) Anyone have any experience using Concorde Pro's with SSL and scratching? They only have a output of 5mV but would look great with my Vestax decks being silver and red. I do see that DeezNotes said 5mV should be ok but not really sure about a noisey club. Thanks again guys!
DJ Yaz 2:31 AM - 23 April, 2006
Quote:


Ortofon = more record wear = worse tracking = more money on CV



FYI, I just killed a pair of CV records in 3 nights with the Qbert needles. They are great on regular wax but they just murder the CV wax.
DJ Sparx 1:01 AM - 24 April, 2006
I have a pair of kits I will sell for cheap....
DJ Yaz 1:37 AM - 24 April, 2006
Kits?
robosapien 4:26 AM - 24 April, 2006
Quote:
FYI, I just killed a pair of CV records in 3 nights with the Qbert needles. They are great on regular wax but they just murder the CV wax.


How does the control vinyl differ from regular vinyl?

Quote:
I prefer the pink Scratch carts over 44-7's, but again that's my opinion


So I assume there is little record wear with the scratch carts? How do you think they compare to the silver?
DJ Yaz 4:42 AM - 24 April, 2006
Quote:


How does the control vinyl differ from regular vinyl?
?


It doesn't really, but regular vinyl will continue to work even when it's badly scratched up where CV will fail to work with SSL when it's badly damaged. Also you tend you use CV vinyl heavily in a small area if you rub back and forth a lot while cueing (as I do).

I say stick with M44-7s. Shure should re-release them as the M44-7 digital and change nothing except make them green and they would sell like hotcakes.
DJ Sparx 5:36 AM - 24 April, 2006
Kits = one cartridge with stylus + one extra stylus in a case. I have two of them....Digitrack.
DJ Yaz 8:17 AM - 24 April, 2006
Ok, so I take it you didn't enjoy your experience with them? Why don't you sell them on Ebay and tell us how crappy they were, or were not...
DeezNotes 1:48 PM - 24 April, 2006
Quote:
So I assume there is little record wear with the scratch carts? How do you think they compare to the silver?


Pink kicks silver's ass. Seriously. I haven't tried the Q-Bert's yet, so I'm not sure how they would compare. Hopefully nik or some of the other Q owners can hook us up with some quick cue-burn tests against a Pink or 44-7. The Pink needles are pretty close to 44-7s; close enough to make me put my Shures away and never use them at all.
DJ Sparx 3:23 PM - 24 April, 2006
I would rather use the 44-7's. With my Technics, there is a weighting issue. After balancing the tone arm. I can barely get 2.5 grams before the weight stops. I suppose I could get the extra weights that Ortofon makes for the Concordes, but I just think that it is easier to use the 44-7 when adding weights (although, it probably would have been better to go with the OM carts instead of the Concordes). I would rather run at about 3-3.5 grams and with regular vinyl, even a little more. And, with hearing the record wear issue, I really don't want to be buying control vinyl every week after playing constantly in clubs 5 nights a week. I was offering them "cheap" if anybody else wants to get a set for testing. Each kit was $179 from PSSL...I will offer them for $100 each.
robosapien 2:21 AM - 25 April, 2006
Thanks for the info Yaz & Deez! Could you tell me how the pink better than the silver exactly Deez? Yaz just said that the Q-Berts cause alot of burn but it would be nice to get some more feedback from others.
DeezNotes 2:38 AM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
Thanks for the info Yaz & Deez! Could you tell me how the pink better than the silver exactly Deez? Yaz just said that the Q-Berts cause alot of burn but it would be nice to get some more feedback from others.


Off the top I can tell you 3 things:
- The output is higher
- Record wear is MUCH lower
- Skip resistance is MUCH better

I've explained the last one in numerous posts. The Pink Scratch needle doesn't wobble like the other carts do (it does... just not as much). That "wobble" usually causes the needle to jump out of the groove. The Scratch needle is just more stable.

If you're interested, I would suggest doing what I did... if you already own Ortofons just buy the pink needle and try it out. If you like it, stick with just the needle or buy the whole cart (OM recommended).
robosapien 2:39 AM - 25 April, 2006
As I mentioned I believe I know understand the benefits of a cart with a higher output: It helps you use a lower threshold setting which gets better record response and less chance of drop outs. Is this correct? Doesn't the threshold level also have to do with your CPU processor speed? Couldn't a down side of a higher output be that it will sound worse when the CV starts to wear vs. a lower output cart? I'm sorry I didn't include this in my last post but like I say I'm a little ADD.
DeezNotes 2:46 AM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
As I mentioned I believe I know understand the benefits of a cart with a higher output: It helps you use a lower threshold setting which gets better record response and less chance of drop outs. Is this correct? Doesn't the threshold level also have to do with your CPU processor speed? Couldn't a down side of a higher output be that it will sound worse when the CV starts to wear vs. a lower output cart? I'm sorry I didn't include this in my last post but like I say I'm a little ADD.


I'd like to hear from Serato on this question. What I noticed in the carts I've purchased over the years was that the output was usually around 5mv. The Scratch was 7mv, which sounds really nice to me. The 44-7 is 9.5mv and I thought that was loud... sometimes too loud and harsh, but hey, I'm no needle doctor. I really don't see the point going higher than that, but if there's a valid reason I'd like to know. I'd also like to know the answer to your question.
nik39 3:23 AM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
Doesn't the threshold level also have to do with your CPU processor speed?

No.

The louder the needles the less SSL will track correctly with fast cueing. Just one point.
robosapien 4:00 AM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
The louder the needles the less SSL will track correctly with fast cueing. Just one point.


Why is that?
nik39 4:09 AM - 25 April, 2006
scratchlive.net <- click.
nik39 4:11 AM - 25 April, 2006
robosapien 4:16 AM - 25 April, 2006
Thanks for the links Nik!
vidoona 8:36 AM - 25 April, 2006
I've been tracking this discussion for awhile now, and I kinda think the whole issue is being overcomplicated. I'm willing to bet these digital needles have very differences over other Ortofons on the market....essentially a gimmick to snatch in a huge new FS2 / SSL user base (not bashing on ortofon - its good marketing). The basics for a good SSL needle should be no different than that for a good normal needle - because in the end, the timecode is still an AUDIO SOUND. It's not a digital signal and if the needle you use right now has good tracking, low noise, high output level, and doesn't wear down your records like crazy, don't switch. It isn't worth the money and many people don't know how or take the time to perfectly adjust their turntables in the first place which would help more than just switching to this thing. No needle is going to solve all of your problems and I don't see this thing as an exception.

I'm guilty at overthinking / complicating issues too, but after reading this thing for a few weeks, I just think people are losing grasp of the basic concepts.
DeezNotes 1:16 PM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
I'm guilty at overthinking / complicating issues too, but after reading this thing for a few weeks, I just think people are losing grasp of the basic concepts.


Thank you for saying that. I agree.
DJ Sparx 4:02 PM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
I'm guilty at overthinking / complicating issues too, but after reading this thing for a few weeks, I just think people are losing grasp of the basic concepts.


Thank you for saying that. I agree.


He's right...it's STILL an analog audio signal...which goes thru the analog turntable (assuming you have a Technics) which then gets converted in the interface.
nobspangle 5:13 PM - 25 April, 2006
Quote:
I would rather use the 44-7's. With my Technics, there is a weighting issue. After balancing the tone arm. I can barely get 2.5 grams before the weight stops.

Just a thought on your weight problem (exercise?) ;)

Seriously though, do you have the small extra weights screwed into the end of your tonearms. If so try taking them off and see if you can get enough weight that way.
DJ Sparx 5:20 PM - 25 April, 2006
Hmm...hadn't checked on that...thanks...
DJ Irv 7:01 PM - 25 April, 2006
I use Ortofon GT's they cost about 80 bucks a pair. I dont' change tips i change carts every few months. They output about 8Mv and work just fine. I mainly use them because I hate breaking tips on 44-7's and I tend to break a ton of them. I don't break them scratching, but when I am handling my TT's or going to a gig I always snap them off. GT's also pick up less background noise and sound better than 44-7's, but can't track like a good ol' 44-7.
DJ Irv 7:03 PM - 25 April, 2006
As far as the Digitrack is concerned it's all hype. I believe them to be very similar to Concorde Electro's which are in fact closely related to GT's.
Freddagreat 2:54 AM - 26 April, 2006
Just got my digitrack om's in today. Well not off to a good start so far 2 out of the 4 tips were bad straight out of the box! Mount them on 2 brand new technics headshells, put'em on and get some wobbly ass circles. So i check the wiring blah blah blah..all ok on that end. so i swap out the tips and...perfect circles. Ive been using concords for over 10 years and never had any kind of problem with new tips straight out the box. (Believe me ive bought quite a few over the years) As soon as I'm finished being disgusted ill muster up the willpower to do some testing. I wonder how Pssl is going to handle this one.? Ill keep yall posted. One.
Menace 5:09 PM - 26 April, 2006
Sometimes it`s just better to be sceptical about a new product. So I agree, the Digitracks are just a hype. That`s probably why my questions (somewhere above in this thread) are still unanswered what`s so special about them. So far I can`t see any benefits with the Digitracks at all reading out an audio signal like the timecode is.

Freddagreat, you are not the first one who got bad tips out of the box. Digitrack buyers should expect more for such an amazing price. I hope you`ll get a refund.
DJ Sparx 5:29 PM - 26 April, 2006
PSSL does not take carts or stylus back. I tried that one...I actually would just like to trade the Concordes in for OM's so I can use the Technices headshells...knowing that the contacts match perfectly.
Dj Tony- C 11:17 PM - 28 April, 2006
Quote:
I had only a brief time to test the Digitracks, so I really don't have a lot of feedback, but here is what I found so far.

1. The output level is very loud, which is excellent when using the CV02 control records.

2. The tracking isn't noticeably different from the DJ (blue) concords or the NightClub (black) concords, that is, once you set the weight, height, and anti-skating correctly.

3. Normal record playback sounds clean and clear with no noticeable difference in fidelity between the other Ortofon carts mentioned above.

I'll get more time this weekend to compair the Digitracks to the Shure Whitelabels, Stanton 500s, 680s, 890s and old school Track Masters.




getting the sertato nod , so its lookin good.
def want to hear more before speding the money.
i have to say though i have been using my old old old old white oms
and theyre great...still using original ssl vinyl..sound great.

it seems that menace doesnt have any friends cause hes always on this forum
hatin on the otofon guy..get a life dude....really jus get out there and actually
spin instead of sittin here expecting the ortfon guy to be at your every beck and call..
maybe menace is actully being paid by a rival company cause he is jus pure spittin acid
type of hatin....lol


haha..grow up man..
Dj Tony- C 11:22 PM - 28 April, 2006
tick, tick, tick ,tick
Menace 1:09 AM - 29 April, 2006
What`s your problem, Tony- C? I definately don`t wait for the Ortofon guy. Somebody made this up here.

Get a life!

www.djtonyc.com
Menace 1:31 AM - 29 April, 2006
Why do people have to offend others if they have a different opinion?

How can people know what other people do during the day if they don`t know them?

This is why we can`t stay on topic and why fightings break out.

I hate that.

Peace.
Freddagreat 6:46 PM - 30 April, 2006
i spoke to ortofon about the bad stylus and they stepped up to plate, im sending it back to them so they check it out at the factory to see if its a manufacturing defect. in return they will be sending me replacments. Ortofons cust service is 100% top notch in my book. They stand behind their product and definatly want to make sure we the consumer are happy with our purchase.
Menace 1:44 PM - 1 May, 2006
sounds really good
mrBallistic 6:33 PM - 1 May, 2006
there's been a bunch of talk about the digitracks beating the heck out of your wax. i've been using various ortofon carts/needles for ten years now, and i've always found that brand new needles act like a lathe -- they always trash my records. i usually scratch for a good hour on a new needle just to break it in -- and then it works just fine. when comparing the digitracks to the scratches (or whichever ones you compare to), remember to do an apples to apples look with brand new needles on both.

that said, i never knew that the contacts were offset -- even after all of this time. i just knew that, if i took the cart off and blew on it, i'd get me channel back. now that i'm using serato, i may switch to the oms if this is still an issue.
DeezNotes 7:09 PM - 1 May, 2006
Quote:
there's been a bunch of talk about the digitracks beating the heck out of your wax. i've been using various ortofon carts/needles for ten years now, and i've always found that brand new needles act like a lathe -- they always trash my records. i usually scratch for a good hour on a new needle just to break it in -- and then it works just fine. when comparing the digitracks to the scratches (or whichever ones you compare to), remember to do an apples to apples look with brand new needles on both.

that said, i never knew that the contacts were offset -- even after all of this time. i just knew that, if i took the cart off and blew on it, i'd get me channel back. now that i'm using serato, i may switch to the oms if this is still an issue.


I did use a brand new Scratch needle when comparing it to the brand new Digitracks - I can not stress how much worse wear is with the Digitracks. If you do buy another Ortofon, buy OM - it's better (IMO).
mrBallistic 8:55 PM - 1 May, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
there's been a bunch of talk about the digitracks beating the heck out of your wax. i've been using various ortofon carts/needles for ten years now, and i've always found that brand new needles act like a lathe -- they always trash my records. i usually scratch for a good hour on a new needle just to break it in -- and then it works just fine. when comparing the digitracks to the scratches (or whichever ones you compare to), remember to do an apples to apples look with brand new needles on both.


I did use a brand new Scratch needle when comparing it to the brand new Digitracks - I can not stress how much worse wear is with the Digitracks. If you do buy another Ortofon, buy OM - it's better (IMO).


ahh... i must not have seen the other post where you did that.

and, will do. the last thing i want is a cart going south mid-performance. yuck.
chris dubs 9:24 PM - 1 May, 2006
im w/ DEEZ- OM w/pink tips are the best ortofons for scratch.
but i really only use my ortofon nowadays for taping my cue points. 44-7s and 44-Cs are my first coice for carts.
digitracks are vinyl cutters for sure.
DJ Sparx 5:18 AM - 2 May, 2006
Quote:

Seriously though, do you have the small extra weights screwed into the end of your tonearms. If so try taking them off and see if you can get enough weight that way.


I did have the extra weights on the ends of the tonearms. Removing them did solve the problem with the Concordes. But, IMHO, I would still like to go with the OM's so I can use the Technics headshell.
Niral 8:23 PM - 9 May, 2006
After reading each post, the Digitracks don't seem like a good buy. I'm so glad for that since I was actually about to buy a pair for this weekend. Now, I'm thinking about the Orto Q-Bert concordes. I've heard a little, but not as much about them on this thread. Any advice on those?
DJ Irv 8:34 PM - 9 May, 2006
I just got the Q-Berts. I am not impressed. They are not bad deal because they come with 2 tips, but they don't stick as well ass 44-7's. On the other hand you can't compare the sound between 44-7's and Q-Berts. The Q-Berts smack up the 44-7's when playing real vinyl. I would get a pair of Electros.
boabmatic 10:32 AM - 10 May, 2006
the qberts take a long time to break in... after that they are as good as the 447's...

also make sure that the tonearm height is as low as you can get it, found that helps with the qbert too...
DeezNotes 1:16 PM - 10 May, 2006
Buy OM Ortofons instead of Concordes if possible.
MSF 6:34 PM - 18 May, 2006
I am wondering how an ortofon "elektro CC headshell with a 'scratch' tip would perform?

Dees's/Nik's testing experience seems to lead me to to the believe that the output is too high on the Digitracks headshells. I wanted to get the Digitracks, but Im not so sure anymore.

I was using the Ortofon Q-bert tips on the Pro headshells. After about 30 or so hours running time (with minor scratching, and mainly mixing), the audio output was mildy and intermittently 'jittery'... When I put some 'Spherical nightclubs' back on, the 'jittery' activity was not there.... I am not sure if the combination of the Qbert tip on the Pro headshell was the problem, if the Qbert's just wore out in 30 hours... I know the Qbert tip was getting the 11mV that the Qbert headshell provides... Cleaning the vinyls and tips did not provide any change.
dj ruin 11:07 PM - 19 May, 2006
ive used all the needles with serato
digizines(hype,one went out on me a few hours during a gig)
qbert- (they work average
still the shure m447 or even the m35 work better in my experience with serato
DJ BIS 10:29 AM - 24 May, 2006
I was working with a pretty new and non-abused Tech1200 that I normally play with on sundays and using my technics cartridges, well guess what struck? The Concorde cartridge syndrome!!!! Only one side would play!

Never has happened to me on a standard cartridge. I don't know, I think this thread is messing with me, people...

:)
nik39 10:33 AM - 24 May, 2006
Bis, this also happened to me on one gig :(
DJ BIS 2:16 PM - 24 May, 2006
hehe... I figured I was not the only one. And I hear that liking the contacts only makes the problem worse as they corrode and create an additional problem. Whats your take on that?

There has to be some kind of quick-fix/hack that people use to overcome it.

:(
DeezNotes 2:19 PM - 24 May, 2006
I had the issue as well, but it turned out to be the turntables... both of them. We used 6 different needles and had the issue. We fixed it by using our Caig survival kit. I think it was the Deoxit pen that cleared it up.
DJ Irv 2:21 PM - 24 May, 2006
I round out a piece of napkin and spin it the tone arm connector until all the dirt comes out. Then I make shure there is no paper left in there and put the needle back. But a DeoxIT pen sold at RadioShack for 10 bucks will work wonders.
nik39 2:31 PM - 24 May, 2006
Quote:
Whats your take on that?

Usually I say "you gotta lick, before we kick it", but not in this case ;) This makes things worse in the long run, but it might help in the short run. Definitly put some spit on your fingers and apply them on the contacts, DONT lick them with your tounge - think of you many djs have licked other contacts before :-D

Since spinning with SSL I have q-tips and a little bottle of iso-alcohol with me. If not, then I use the back of a cigarette, you know the filter which goes into your mouth when you smoke. That fits perfectly into a tonearm and helps cleaning.

The funny thing is, on this one turntable (its at one of my residencies) only the ortofons work! The original tech headshells simply dont work :( I guess the contacts are really really messed up.
DJ Irv 2:53 PM - 24 May, 2006
People have me clean out those connnections for them all the time. The Napkin trick is pretty good. Follow that with DeoxIT and that will do the trick. Licking the needle cause oxidation and in the long run it gets worse and worse.
DJ BIS 6:27 PM - 24 May, 2006
cool. Thanks for confirming all of that info fellaz. lol
Niro 9:26 PM - 24 May, 2006
A Deoxit and pro-gold pen is always with me, plus another thing to have is some Q-Tips. Some times it also helps to push the contacts in and out to get them to spring back.

I always bring a survival kit, which includes both pens mentioned above, a record cleaner of some sort and a stylus cleaner with a brush. I also bring an a sort ment of knobs, did a show once and lost two of the fader knobs on a 56, never again.

S
dj solomon 3:57 AM - 25 May, 2006
Quote:
People have me clean out those connnections for them all the time. The Napkin trick is pretty good. Follow that with DeoxIT and that will do the trick. Licking the needle cause oxidation and in the long run it gets worse and worse.


They should include a deoxit pen with every ortofon purchase... I never leave home without it!
Freddagreat 5:14 PM - 8 June, 2006
i was cleaning my om digitracks like normal, i noticed one of them is spliting on the bottom, right down the middle. the plastic housing appears to be letting go. as far as tracking i havent noticed anything abnormal. i love these needles alot. record wear hasnt been an issue. ive been on the same set of records for about a month and a half still track nice. ill post a pic of the problem when i find my usb wire for my camera.
soon-2-be-ex-FS2user 10:49 PM - 15 June, 2006
will this needle also work on my Final scratch? thanks
DJ BIS 11:47 PM - 27 June, 2006
Dood! You are gonna get booted! haaahaaa!
vidoona 1:25 AM - 4 July, 2006
The needle will work on your finalscratch for sure, but good luck getting your final scratch to work period.
yer_auld_da 3:27 PM - 23 July, 2006
in the few times i got final scratch to work the only needles i got to work were stanton 505's

and believe me there just as bad as FS itself

my advice would be...........never but any thing from stanton cause i certainly wont be and anything you have got of theres either put it on eBay or in the bin
The Oldboy 6:32 PM - 3 January, 2007
Quote:
They do need to be broken in, but the reason I said that was because I've [not knowingly] used a brand new stylus at my last gig. I mark each set of stylii I get to keep track which is which. Anyway, I had a brand new needle on and forgot to put the old one back right before a gig. Not realizing it, I performed as normal and I couldn't tell the difference until I looked at the stylus after the gig. True, they work much better after being broken in, but whether new or old, they don't have that "wobble" like the Shures do. The "wobble" was my main point, because it seemed to be a problem in the scenario described above. I can go _crazy_ with the Ortofons on the left TT and the right (playing side) won't budge.




@@ Deeznotes. sorry if its already been covered but i got halfway through reading and my eyes started to hurt!!

how many hours do you suggest the styli require to be worn in?

my 1200s are at a shop getting new phonos and pretty much when i get them back i will have brand new ortofon scratchs and serato.
i opted for scratch as im 50/50 serato and normal vinyl (HOPE IM NOT MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!)
The Oldboy 6:36 PM - 3 January, 2007
Quote:
They do need to be broken in, but the reason I said that was because I've [not knowingly] used a brand new stylus at my last gig. I mark each set of stylii I get to keep track which is which. Anyway, I had a brand new needle on and forgot to put the old one back right before a gig. Not realizing it, I performed as normal and I couldn't tell the difference until I looked at the stylus after the gig. True, they work much better after being broken in, but whether new or old, they don't have that "wobble" like the Shures do. The "wobble" was my main point, because it seemed to be a problem in the scenario described above. I can go _crazy_ with the Ortofons on the left TT and the right (playing side) won't budge.




@@ Deeznotes. sorry if its already been covered but i got halfway through reading and my eyes started to hurt!!

how many hours do you suggest the styli require to be worn in?

my 1200s are at a shop getting new phonos and pretty much when i get them back i will have brand new ortofon scratchs and serato.
i opted for scratch as im 50/50 serato and normal vinyl (HOPE IM NOT MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!)
DjWoody 7:39 PM - 3 January, 2007
I used these needles two weeks ago and I loved them. I think I love them more than my M44-7's.
DeezNotes 7:53 PM - 3 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
They do need to be broken in, but the reason I said that was because I've [not knowingly] used a brand new stylus at my last gig. I mark each set of stylii I get to keep track which is which. Anyway, I had a brand new needle on and forgot to put the old one back right before a gig. Not realizing it, I performed as normal and I couldn't tell the difference until I looked at the stylus after the gig. True, they work much better after being broken in, but whether new or old, they don't have that "wobble" like the Shures do. The "wobble" was my main point, because it seemed to be a problem in the scenario described above. I can go _crazy_ with the Ortofons on the left TT and the right (playing side) won't budge.




@@ Deeznotes. sorry if its already been covered but i got halfway through reading and my eyes started to hurt!!

how many hours do you suggest the styli require to be worn in?

my 1200s are at a shop getting new phonos and pretty much when i get them back i will have brand new ortofon scratchs and serato.
i opted for scratch as im 50/50 serato and normal vinyl (HOPE IM NOT MAKING A BIG MISTAKE!!)


Well, if you're using the Pink Scratch Ortofon carts you really won't notice too much of a difference as you would with 44-7s. In my post above, I basically say that I couldn't tell the difference when using a brand new needle vs. a broken in needle. Granted, there is a slight difference, but not like the 44-7... a brand new 44-7 is almost useless until you break it in.

I like the Scratch because it's more consistent and it performs well. No need to fine tune each deck you use them on like the 44-7.

You should be straight Oldboy.
DJ BIS 9:54 AM - 4 January, 2007
That whole break-in process totally threw me off when I got mine. I sent them right back because after a while of playing with them they were skipping more than expected. I basically did not give them a chance because of being impatient. However, breaking in a needle when you have other great options out there that don't require this process just kind of makes me go away from the 44-7...

Whats the idea behind it? Why do other needles rock without having to be broken in?
nik39 10:54 AM - 4 January, 2007
Well there is a rubber which holds the needle or something, this needs to break in. Basically, I read, it is sufficient to put the needle with tonearm (or vice versa :D ) to a record and leave it there over night. That should do the trick.

The M44-7s rock IMHO. Ortofons are too expensive, esp. the "Digitracks". But I love how you can exactly see where the needle is, something the M44-7s lack obviously.
DeezNotes 2:08 PM - 4 January, 2007
What's really strange to me is that I've had 2 sets of 44-7s over the course of 5 years. The newest pair is about 3 years old and I have "broken them in" more than a few times. Sometimes they work ok (not great), but other times they don't work at all (skips all over the place) just like day 1. I've given them more than a fair chance and they still don't "do it" for me. I also think other factors come into play, like a table that wobbles vs. a sturdy surface... but I'm not 100% sure.

For club use, the 44-7 is the worst to me. Performance, sound, needle visibility... and that rubber bearing nik's talking about... the thing wobbles and bounces a little more than what I'd like to see at the club. I DID however use them at a guest spot at another club and the needles that belonged to the DJ before me performed GREAT! Nothing like the ones I owned. I didn't bother to ask what he did, because I could care less at that point. I've had too many Ortofons "work" for me to bother with this needle any longer. But for some reason, I won't get rid of them?
nik39 3:12 PM - 4 January, 2007
Weird, weird.
TheMightyThor 5:08 PM - 4 January, 2007
im switching to ortofons soon, been using 447s for 5 years, i need to see the needle, and im real sick of the wobble, although my 447s never ever skip.
Niro 5:57 PM - 4 January, 2007
You guys must be using ABS. mode, because why would you need to be so exact with the needle position. The 44-7's wobble, because they are doing there job of staying in the groove without putting a lot weight on your records. Just like shocks for your cars.

I understand if you're still playing with vinyl, but you're on a serato forum, so I'm guessing not. I feel for some people they just like the look of an ortofon needle, just as I like the beefy look of a M44-7. To each is his own, if it works for you, than it works for you.

S
Menace 6:05 PM - 4 January, 2007
I just wanna say:

With the big improvement of Seratos timecode reading I really never had a single problem with any needle in any club anymore - even at 33 rpm`s. I am really thankful about that fact.
nik39 8:56 PM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
im switching to ortofons soon, been using 447s for 5 years, i need to see the needle, and im real sick of the wobble,

As Niro said... whats the problem with the wobbling? It doesnt harm... it takes movement energy away and keeps the needle in the groove.
DJ BIS 9:22 PM - 6 January, 2007
Quote:
What's really strange to me is that I've had 2 sets of 44-7s over the course of 5 years. The newest pair is about 3 years old and I have "broken them in" more than a few times. Sometimes they work ok (not great), but other times they don't work at all (skips all over the place) just like day 1. I've given them more than a fair chance and they still don't "do it" for me. I also think other factors come into play, like a table that wobbles vs. a sturdy surface... but I'm not 100% sure.

For club use, the 44-7 is the worst to me. Performance, sound, needle visibility... and that rubber bearing nik's talking about... the thing wobbles and bounces a little more than what I'd like to see at the club. I DID however use them at a guest spot at another club and the needles that belonged to the DJ before me performed GREAT! Nothing like the ones I owned. I didn't bother to ask what he did, because I could care less at that point. I've had too many Ortofons "work" for me to bother with this needle any longer. But for some reason, I won't get rid of them?


That kind of summarizes my experience with the 44-7's for me as well. Weird indeed.
That Guy 1 5:05 AM - 7 January, 2007
I had M447's, and can relate about how they seemed to go in-an-out of being broken-in.

I've had the same pair of Ortofon Skratches since right after they came out: `02? They're perfect!

The Skratches do take a little while to fully break-in. While not nearly as bad as the M447's, they maybe take a few weeks of heavy scratching or use to put them in full anti-skip mode.

Of course, big parts of anti-skip-ability, to aid any needle, are the slip-mats and the holes in the records.
Niro 10:57 AM - 7 January, 2007
You should also check the level of the turntable, I was playing on one tonight and it Kepted skipping. Added more weight and still skipping, than I checked and it was seesawing, one leg was higher than the other. Lowered until it stable and smooth sailing.

I'm a big supporter of the M44-7s, they work and another big think is they're cheap. And if you're only using serato, than they're perfect, since the sound is coming from your computer. If I play vinyl, than I switch to the 44Gs, they're flatter and don't booste up the bass.

Like I said, cheap and good, you can usually get a pair at GC for $100, and replacement styluses, for $20 to $25. I bought a bunch when they price-matched radio shack at $16. That was a good deal.

S
DJJOHNNYM 2:09 PM - 7 January, 2007
I used to use the Ortofon Pro S (All Black), and yeah it seems alright, until the finger lifts kept breaking off. And I was wishing like HELL they had an OM model, I'm not even sure if they did...But THEN came the OM Scratch, and the moment I was able to mount that puppy on my Technics headshell (with this additional mystery weight), it was ALL LOVE. Now I find out on this board about the PIN ISSUE with the Ortofons if you don't have the OM version, and remember FOREVER licking the contacts of those joints. My tonearm now needs replacement, but I can still get it to rock if I set it up JUST RIGHT. I think Ortofon should send me two new tonearms. But again the Scratch OM's are perfect.
DeezNotes 7:18 AM - 8 January, 2007
Quote:
I used to use the Ortofon Pro S (All Black), and yeah it seems alright, until the finger lifts kept breaking off. And I was wishing like HELL they had an OM model, I'm not even sure if they did...But THEN came the OM Scratch, and the moment I was able to mount that puppy on my Technics headshell (with this additional mystery weight), it was ALL LOVE. Now I find out on this board about the PIN ISSUE with the Ortofons if you don't have the OM version, and remember FOREVER licking the contacts of those joints. My tonearm now needs replacement, but I can still get it to rock if I set it up JUST RIGHT. I think Ortofon should send me two new tonearms. But again the Scratch OM's are perfect.


If I'm not mistaken... any Ortofon that comes in Concorde comes in OM. Check their website.

If I were you, I'd use a deoxit pen on the tonearm. That usually helps when we travel to different clubs with beat-up turntables.
DJJOHNNYM 1:38 PM - 8 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
I used to use the Ortofon Pro S (All Black), and yeah it seems alright, until the finger lifts kept breaking off. And I was wishing like HELL they had an OM model, I'm not even sure if they did...But THEN came the OM Scratch, and the moment I was able to mount that puppy on my Technics headshell (with this additional mystery weight), it was ALL LOVE. Now I find out on this board about the PIN ISSUE with the Ortofons if you don't have the OM version, and remember FOREVER licking the contacts of those joints. My tonearm now needs replacement, but I can still get it to rock if I set it up JUST RIGHT. I think Ortofon should send me two new tonearms. But again the Scratch OM's are perfect.


Yeah, they all come in OM NOW...LOL, I bought those joints when they used to come in the fuzzy red box, and had 2 additional styli included....

At the time, OM wasn't introduced.

If I'm not mistaken... any Ortofon that comes in Concorde comes in OM. Check their website.

If I were you, I'd use a deoxit pen on the tonearm. That usually helps when we travel to different clubs with beat-up turntables.
DJJOHNNYM 1:38 PM - 8 January, 2007
Thanks for the deoxit pen suggestion tho.
DJ BIS 5:17 AM - 9 January, 2007
You can get those at Radio shack, right?
DJ BIS 6:22 AM - 9 January, 2007
bleh, EBAY might do the trick. RadioShack.com does not have the pen. Interesting line of products...

www.deoxit.com
dj disturbed 6:03 PM - 9 January, 2007
i use the spray Deoxit for mixer faders. The pro audio shop i go to all the time carries it. Realy good stuff!!!!!
DJ BIS 10:02 AM - 10 January, 2007
So what SHOULD YOU NOT use this stuff on?!! seriously?
dj disturbed 5:04 PM - 10 January, 2007
You should not use this stuff on optical X-Faders :-P
DJ BIS 11:29 PM - 10 January, 2007
everything else is good then? Man... I will be trying this with my lady soemtime soon... lol
Mati 12:36 PM - 22 January, 2007
You can solve the pin issue by placing the rubber ring from your original headshell onto the ortofon concorde btw...
The Concorde won't be as loose anymore, en will probably never have any channel dropouts anymore.
nik39 1:45 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
You can solve the pin issue by placing the rubber ring from your original headshell onto the ortofon concorde btw...
The Concorde won't be as loose anymore, en will probably never have any channel dropouts anymore.

Nope, that didnt work for me.
henryo 6:47 AM - 23 February, 2007
Does anyone know if you can do the 'leave the needle on a record overnight' break in trick AFTER youve used the new needle for normal use for a few hours? I had a gig at a house party and put the new needle on without breaking it in. Will this make the needle "unbreakinable"???
DeezNotes 2:24 PM - 23 February, 2007
If it's an Ortofon, just don't use too much weight. I put a blue one on overnight with a lot of weight and it played distorted after that.

Sounds like you've already "started" the break-in process. If the needle worked well when you played with it, why not just keep playing with those needles to break them in the natural way? The overnight thing is for those of us who don't have time to break in needles while we sleep.
henryo 4:17 PM - 23 February, 2007
lol i thought leaving them on a record all night was the natural way to break them in.
they're m44-7's by the way. So since I left it on the record all night they should be all goo d to go? BTW I went to guitar center last week and unknowingly picked up a blue control vinyl...how sweet is that?
That Guy 1 6:21 PM - 23 February, 2007
Quote:
If it's an Ortofon, just don't use too much weight. I put a blue one on overnight with a lot of weight and it played distorted after that.

Sounds like you've already "started" the break-in process. If the needle worked well when you played with it, why not just keep playing with those needles to break them in the natural way? The overnight thing is for those of us who don't have time to break in needles while we sleep.


I like to break-in needles when I sleep.