^^^Kill DAT NOIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought the same thing when I got off work early last Friday and decided to stop into the local Guitar Center. They had all Controllers in the Pro Audio section. Oh, there was one very beat up, used 1200 (it needed a lot of TLC), but no cdjs. I'm a Denon guy myself, 3900s. I sold my M5gs earlier this year. A guy drove all the way down from Toronto Canada to pick them up.

But, yeah, controllers seems to be the future. From a financial standpoint it makes sense. You can also tell by the number of these post that are popping up week to week.

Hes not wrong, sad but true facts, djing has truley become a game andvthese are the games toys

Don't rely on Dj for living, thank god. Just saying you will play the music how you want. I still see people driving 1950. 1960 1970 cars in LA. YET the markets try on pushing the HYBRID!
I get around with my 1200s all day every day! I feel bad for real DJ who will keep on getting undercut by wannabe DJ s!
ALL DAY EVERYDAY!

Pdidy is right, not saying his wrong. I know a lot of people who returned to DJing 4-5 years after Serato came out with SSL because they could use 1200 to play an mp3 on it.
Now you have the collab with Serato/Pioneer and the controller, which ofcourse I WILL never own. Many of you,on here, have bought it and say it is the best. Well you don't need to read about it, ya'll are seeing it on these forums. But to each his own. Everybody is going to use whatever they want . Me personally I will stick to 1200 Mk2, MK5 and Mg5s. Always have and always will be.

Ding Ding !

I quit djing for about 2yrs then serato came out in 2004 an brought me back out.

No argument here. Just wish someone would make a controller that didn't feel like shit. (I.e. 12" technics style moving platter)

Well like someone stated"from a financial standpoint" a company won't make a well built and reliable controller because it will go the way of the 1200.Build them like 1200s, they will last forever.
DJ soo fuk someone making a controller feel like a 1200, bring back PRODUCTION of the 1200! Says I

Unfortunately the market just isn't big enough for such a thing. My bet is that there will be zero new devices with spinning platters in 2013. On any platform.

The V7's are pretty cool... if I ever went to a spinning platter platform again it'd probably be those (assuming I had $1.2k to blow on new "toys" and cases for them). I wouldn't be able to use them at most local club shows though due to the size though; my Xone DX can go anywhere (2 laptop stands = very little booth room needed).

I guess for turntablists the Technics SL-DZ would be the best "controller" out there? I'm personally preferring the more compact offerings, but I can see the appeal.

The technics sl dz1200 just happens to be the undisputed worst cd player ever. That being said, it is also the sexiest.....lol.

I like the feel of vinyl, i like the efficiency and creativity of controllers, and THAT is why i shall use dicers and timecodes

Well, over a year ago I sold a beloved Mixer (Korg Zero4) to offset the cost of my NS6 Controller/Odyssey Case. I placed my NS6 between my two 120M5Gs, and convinced myself that I would still predominantly play my DVS (SL3), but gradually delve into controllerism via ITCH. Well, within a few months I completely ditched ScratchLIVE & the SL3, and mixed solely within the the FULL DIGITAL DOMAIN of ITCH.

Within six months after that, I began to looooong for the feel of vinyl beneath my fingertips....I know it sounds cheezy/dramatic, but I guess it kinda' was. I missed mixing traditionally. The whole reason I fell in love w' ScratchLIVE in the first place was for......VINYL EMULATION!! But still, I was torn because I also loved the convenience that the Digital Domain could afford me. Quicker searches, Sync'd Sample Player, Sync'd playback when mixing (4) Decks, and convenient setup/break-down for mobile gigs.

But still, those creature-comforts couldn't justify me leaving the Vinyl forever.

That's when I gave Traktor Scratch another try.

It gave me Vinyl Emulation.....uninhibited MIDI, a VASTLY Advanced Sample Mechanism, while encompassing all the comforts of controllerism, but keeping my love for Vinyl Purism (to a degree)!!


Please, Serato........merge ScratchLIVE & SeratoDJ together, and give your customers what they've been asking for, for years!!!!........

The marriage of DVS & Controllersim.

I like Traktor........but I LOVE ScratchLIVE (Serato).......keep me as a customer for another 6-7 years!!!!!

Me too but a 8 year hiatus for me.


+1000, or at least one with Denon 3900-sized platters.


Absolutely hoRRible cd player! Those two useless notches on the platters, glitchy sound quality... useless.

Some guys have made the mistake of selling their 1200s and they end up really regretting the decision. Not me, I'll keep my M5G's for life... they'll last that long too... :-)

yup

Yup, another drunken/blackout post from Blackavenger....I seriously need AA.

**************
Controllers = Home / Mobile Market
Components = Pro / Club Market

The Pro / Club market 'needs' industry standards (hence the term) - so no fighting about SSL/Traktor blah blah units... they need a universal player (which will be the CDJ2000) and a universal mixer (DJM900 prolly).

For lounges and small spots they can have what they want, but anywhere booking international talent, you will need the standards in the booth.

The fact that you can now save you settings (pitch width, screen layout/brightness, cues etc) within Rekordbox and when you plug into any CDJ2000 it will recognise these and be set for you is pretty impressive and further pushes the need for industry standard components over controllers.

K

i would wait till after namm to assign the cdj 2000 as the standard ;)

You must be speculating on a new top-end Pioneer media player. Because Pioneer locked down the high-end booth globally already, long ago.

If Rane or any other company brings out some all-singing-all-dancing player/controller, it doesn't matter. It's too late.

Trying to usurp Pioneer media players as industry standard is an effort as doomed as Vestax taking on the 1200.

And that's why every manufacturer is desperate to own the controller market, because that's the only market with any room.

********************
Unless they bring out a 1000mk4 or 1500 :)

K

And that's also why Serato screwed the pooch BADLY by not having HID compatibility with the 2000 Nexus players at launch.

**************
But the way they were killing the 2000Nexus hype and integration (Iphone/Ipad connections etc) today it did not sound like a 'big' announcement was due anytime soon?

K

:) ... two words.. game changer

Numark CDX/HDX was way ahead of its time and could easily be brought back with HID control.

Speaking of controllers, NEVER been a fan of Pioneer but im SOLD on the DDJ-SX. The new Serato Dj and SX are a perfect combination. I like having an independent booth out, 2 mic's and a hard "filter" for all 4 channels. Platter control is perfect and feels better than any other out there ive tried. Easy use of the HOT CUES, ROLL and SLICER utilizing the pads is lots o fun!.

Too busy playing with it to get a frickin' skin for it on your site dude? I'm throwing money at the screen here! ;-)

i spun on my cdjs last night......it sucked balls

nothing will replace the feel of vinyl, long live the turntables!

The truth is everyones correct nothing will EVER replace the feel of TTs...BUT since the upandcomming generations never felt that feel in the first place theres nothing to compare.

You might want to sit down. I've got some bad news for you...

rotfl!!

hahaha, yeah, that was some funny shizz!!!!

every show i do with my turntables i get compliments on still using turntables. that is the number 1 reason i keep them around.

a 62+dicers+1200s all set up in a coffin pretty much is an all-in-one controller, a very heavy one i'll admit.

www.curbsideclassic.com

or

www.thetorquereport.com

either way... they both get the job done and get you from point a to b...lol

^^^ Funny

True true.....lol

Yup a DVS is like an old American muscle car and the midi is the future car that does 50 mpg but once again its the feel

Funny... someone made a topic about what I've been saying on here for years. He even pointed out my argument that DVS' are controllers :P

Sorry. Had to do it. Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering about industry standard this, pro that, etc.

Controllers are good for mobile djs and entry level djs that can´t afford pioneer mixer and cdjs. Why bother bringing a controller when clubs got cdjs already installed? Also I´ve seen a tendency of people ditching traktor and scartch live and only use USB on the Pioneer cdjs.
If you are not on turntables dvs, I don´t really see any point of bringing a computer to gigs.
If softwares like Serato dj and traktor doesn´t provide spesial software features that you can´t achieve with the hardware, djs might as well just use USB sticks.

Because:

Not every venue has the same equipment

Not every venue has current equipment

Not every venue has well maintained equipment

Not everyone thinks that Pioneer gear is the best



Serato DJ and Traktor DO provide special software features that you can't achieve even with the latest CDJs and DJM.

Plus, I like the functionality of the Rekordbox-enabled CDJs, but browsing a 20,000 track collection without a laptop... No.

yup

Funny you mention that, i still have my 12's and djm 800, but I've been using my ddj sx/s1 for mobile gigs. I had a gig last saturday at a big banquet hall and they also had a wedding reception next door. Some guy came up to me to request a song and then he says "you should see the wedding next door, some of the people are coming in here, and the DJ is still using turntables" then laughs and walks away. Im pretty sure this dude had no knowledge with djing like most people. Sometimes, I do get compliments as well when using turntables for mobile gigs, i think it's mostly from people who know a little bit about djing.

I was one of those guys that didn't want to convert to cdjs but i did. I use timecode with turntables and cdjs. but i Have learned to love the the controllers more. Sure they cant beat the feel of turntables and a mixer, but controllers will do everything and more. though It does take time on getting use to specially scratching.

Of course they can't afford it. It has absolutely nothing with the fact that some people don't like Pioneer and some people just don't like CDJs. Nope, nothing at all.

I don't own a controller, but I've used a few at gigs. I still use my TT's at weddings. I get the same reaction from guests and other DJs, but I'm the one that can actually mix! LOL

I always thought that the platters on the NS7 were too sensitive.

Times change, that's fact anyone over 35 is living proof of that. We've seen more changes in our lifetime than any before us.
We've seen the computer skyrocket from rarely in any household to nearly in every household.
We've seen baud rate go from 2800 to 56k to ISDN to broadband.
We've seen Atari 2600 go to Sega/Nintendo 8bit/16bit go to high definition.
We've seen muscle cars go to rice burners and now to hybrids.
Now we're seeing the musical age go from vinyl to cd to purely digital.

It was inevitable that this was to come but with that said you can still find people on dial-up or without a computer at all. You can find some people without a flat screen, still owning and playing the old school video game systems & still driving around in muscle cars. You'll still see people using vinyl turntables 30 years from now, doesn't matter how often you see it because it will never die but nothing remains the same & only two things are certain in life that's change and death everything else is up for grabs.

Oh and the biggest change of all... We've seen MTV go from playing music videos to playing no videos or anything music related.

How many of you just hummed the "I want my, I want my, I want my MTV" or saw the astronaut in space during a cerebral flashback?

The thing is yes all those are advancment ....BUT....that dosent necessarily mean they made things better, those advancments all caused alot of problems on their own

That's the nature of the beast, something will eventually come that improves upon those and cause it's own problems. That's also part of every change and step made into the future is the bigger the change the bigger the problem.

I have no intention of dropping vinyl, it's what I enjoy & int he end that's what really matters.

Once again we can look at MTV for that as pure fact... MTV changed from playing music videos to giving us retards from Jersey Shore.

^^^ Not a knock on people at the Jersey shore since a majority of those guidos on the show aren't actually from Jersey. That was just a straight up knock on the main character in the show.

and around the same time music went from being about making good music to who has the newest marketing gimik....see what im saing here, yes things evolve but when hey do it always benefits someone new, everyone saying tech is evolving music....is i evolving it for the musical or the corporate entity behind the tech?

Absolutely, I agree 100%, Auto-Tune can attest to that and the hundreds of artists and boy bands who can be manipulated by the industry. Same can be said for the hardware and how they pay top dollar to certain marketable DJ's so the impressionable youth can want to be just like the guy they saw.

I laugh every time I see someone say this.
I been using these decks for 3 years with serato and have had no issue except for dirty eye lens.

if if was in a club you could not tell what I was on and I have people that vouch for that. I do all the scratches on them.

I actually traded some pioneers 1000 for them and I dont regret it. I love these decks.

I just got another set of 12's so I have 4 tech's but I custom them and they are badass.

Then I give you mad props.....Im a scratch dj and I find them the most difficult to scratch with.
You are the only dj Ive heard has done that......but if it works for you nothing else matters.

on serato that MAY be true but as a CD player those decks were HORIBLE!!!1

ay
when the time comes where controllers rule the dj market and dj game, look for promoters and club owners to pay less. Especially if they find out what auto sync is.
yep

idk bout that.. controllers, turntables, auto sync, etc.. non of those will help you read and/or rock the crowd. you still have to have the right music selection, plus auto sync wouldn't help with mic work.

i truly believe a good dj is someone who can take you up and down the bpm.. not someone who's stuck on 70-75 or 90-95 for hours (this is what auto sync will do to you). i've heard many dj's complain why people aren't dancing anymore and in turn, not get the pay they think they deserve or why they didn't get the residency they had hoped. well, that's what you get for playing 70-75 bpm all night.. you get stuck and doing so you run the risk of having a one sided crowd, no diversity. most club owners don't want that. so to think club owners/ promoters will pay a true dj less because of auto sync, controllers or whatever, i wouldn't worry about that. a true working dj who cares about the business and works hard for the art regardless of the tools he uses usually get the recognition they deserve.

and for the post serato dj's, just because two songs have the same bpm doesn't always mean they go together.

I like your point, Alot of people doesnt know about keys and songs atmosphere (because I will not play Lil John after an 80's song, It just wont sound good even if they both 128.) you need always to change the vibe and keep the crowd intrested in the music.
Thats pretty much the reason I prefer turntables as they give me the simplest control of the song without unneeded functions.

ay
I just don't like it. *shrugs*
yep

For the record I started on Techniques 1200 then went to 1210's,,, paid more for black paint. :) Then I went to Mix Vibes then to Pioneer CDJ 500's (not scratching but the hot cues made the deal work) then to CDJ 1000s of all kinds then Serato. I am no turntablist by any means but I now own my first controller and I am sold on it.... THE DDJ-SX is the truth. With this I can entertain on a new level.

People who say that either way you get the job done are leaving out some important stuff, although the statement is true it's how are you getting it done.... Until timecode we had to carry crates of records. If you want hold to nostalgia then go carry crates and buy records and don't use the advancement of technology at all. You might find that buying records can be difficult and carrying crates can be hard on your back. My point is 8 track, cassettes, cd's then MP3's this is called evolution. Simply put you will evolve or one day be a thing of the past,,,, history tells the whole story. Yeah I still own an 8 Track and a dual cassette player but if I break them out really what could I do with them. Now currently if I break out the 1200's I wont get glaring eyes but soon I will. While I am talking about 1200 just because you own them does not make you a bonafide dj, stop acting like it is what defines you as a dj because it does not. NO MATTER WHAT YOU OWN IF YOU CAN"T MOVE THE CROWD YOUR A BUSTER.... :)

I am not saying if your using turntables stay at home because in the end we like what we are comfortable using and I thank God for still allowing us to use 20+ years old equipment to this day due to advancements in technology. Yet 1200 are primarily used for scratching other than that can not compete with a controller such as a DDJ SX. The evolution of the controller has come a long way and still has a way to go but take into account that the ddj sx for example has changed the game no dicers, no X-1, no heavy very expensive CD/Turntables ect etc. A all in one unit that took the place of many things and can do many things to include scratching very well. I am a realist for those who don't move forward you will be doing parities at retirement homes as those will be the only people that will understand you. Show your kid an 8 track and see the look on their face, give them a radio walkman for Christmas and tell them this is the hot shit,,,, and the will say yes it's hot shit.

In the end it will it is a personal choice if you can rock the crowd that's all that matters no need to look at a controller but understand this one day you will have no choice.

FYI I don't miss the days of scratched records , carrying and digging through crates, replacing needles, taping pennies, nickels, dimes on the top of the needle head ect etc...If you are a turntablist the only thing a controller can do is make you better and that's real talk... SO I AGREE WITH DIDDY ,,,,,,,Damn!!! I should just wrote that would have been much shorter...

Yawn

LOL

well let me say it like this if your using any turntables with anything serato you are already using a controller becasue the SBox or that TTM57 makes it so... Right now Controllers don't look as cool as tt's but soon that wont even matter time goes on..

Just my opinion. =)

DJ's need to stop being LAZY! - Truth!

Controllers will be in for Six months maybe a year. Then DJ's will go back to turntables because they are bored of it. There is nothing like the feel of a moving platter.

Image is everything when it comes to club scene! (1200's/CDJ's) Club Standard!

100% true




100% false

So I assume you still buy records and carry them around it crates? Lazy my ass.

How about more creative try that one.

try telling that to someone whose never touched a turntable

Then i would be fine as I can work all of the above and on the real at most clubs in Texas
use cdj's rarely do you see turntables anymore... Now you see those shitty dual cd rack mixer crap I rather shoot myself then use them..

+1 but the fact remains you can be so creative with a controller espeically if you use truntables that is all I am saying.

true true

you can be way more creative when using a turntable, and the thing is you are actually doing it then letting a software do the job for you (EFFECTS LOOP ROLLS SAMPLES AND THAT STUFF)
Watchwww.youtube.com
yes i know you technically can do it on any controller also, but when you are limited only with turntables you are way more creative and not just doing the same thing all the time. Its hard to explain that.
I dont think that carrying records crates is something that needed to be done, the serato is a great thing but i dont think that you need to let the software do everything for you, just like controllers.

Hey man I was not calling you LAZY! Lol C'mon let's be friends.

It was just a general statement.

Most new DJ's now may not ever get to touch a moving platter. The one's who do rock the moving platter I feel will get the most looks though.

You can be creative all you want! The audience like to see the moving platter!

We are friends I never said diffrent I understood you just wanted you to understand me. As one who use turntables we were limited in what we can do. With controllers since we used truntables all that we wished we could do we can do and even more. FYI it's not always about having turntables, I can assure you that in the end game it all comes down the DJ and what he can do more so the equiment he uses.

LOL me and my friend use to set up 4 turntables run his mixer into my aux and do mixes to sell,,,,, duhhhh with my contorller I don't need his ass anymore...LOL I really wished you understood FYI I am not co-signing on all controllers just the DDJ-SX if you have not played with one you would never understand how simple life can be. Like I said don't knock the controller as you are using one and don't even know it....

I still buy records and embrace technology. To me it's about the sound you put out, and the image that is present to the viewer.

What attracted me to DJing is when I saw a DJ rocking records! Only DJ's knew about vinyl at the time. Finding rare Gems on vinyl was also a plus for DJ.

I'm wondering. Have any of you DJ's rocked a club with a controller? Please post your videos. I'm interested in seeing how people react to your setup and your set.

ay
if you know how to play on turntables, you can pretty much spin on anything seeing as everything is to mimic turntables. If you only played on controllers, I would say you may be able to play on cdjs maybe, but not turntables. I'm a young dude with an old heart when it comes to djing. I rather perserve the culture than make it "more easier" which makes things open to everybody.
*No church in the wild instrumental*
What are turntables to cdjs?/
What are cdjs to a controller?/
What are controllers to a laptop?/
What are laptops to an iPad/who can dj/from an app from the damn app store?
yep

:) that's my point you pick and choose what's you think is not lazy, you choose what is convenient for you and that would be to use the technology to make life easer for you so you don't have to carry records and dig through crates. Seems a little hypercritical if you ask me.

Word Up Ced!

I think they only wanted a certain amount of turntable DJ's that why they discontinued the Technics. If you have them, you were locked in.

That's why turntable DJing/Mixing is not open up to everyone anymore.

Theres a HUGE difference between being original and creative and having to find creative solutions to things that can already be done

Honestly,

Crate digging was the exciting part of DJing! I used to spend $300 plus a month on vinyl. Still till now its still hard to find some exclusive songs on MP3 and it's only available on wax.

BTW what kinda clubs are yall spinnun at where everyone sees your equipment? Most places i play have boothes high up off the dancefloor

A lot of places out in Arizona have high booths, but when you can walk around them and view the DJ. They also have two tier clubs where you can look down at the DJ. Most Lounges are leveled with the crowd depending on where you go.

+1
Apparently someone is in denial or living in a bubble...

Turntables are still my favorite medium. However the turntables at one of my residency's are beat to sh*&t, one with a wandering pitch and one with a trick tone arm. I used to bring my 57 and use the club decks but there was no way was putting my best foot forward with the janky turntable situation.

Now it's my VCI or my S4 for this particular gig. I am not fighting the TTs anymore and can rock the floor just like before. Controllers aren't going away fellas. In my case my controllers are both a necessity and a convenience. With technology it's going to always be the previous generation talking about how rough it was, how much work they put in, how accessible and easy it is now for this generation of kids, students, djs whatever. I’m 40, a dj and music lover for life and very interested to see how this all evolves. I have come to the conclusion that I will embrace useful technology to up my game anytime it makes sense. If you are a “real” dj and have been in the game for a while, you know full well you have to be an opportunist and use the progress in technology to your advantage.

For those who made the jump from turntables to controllers how was the learning curve? That sx looks pretty sweet, one of the spots i spin at kinda janks around with how often i play there, plus its upstairs plus im usually just playing in between bands.. pretty much over puttin the best foot forward draggin the real deal equipment up there, id much rather bring a contriller and bein and out

It was uncomfortable for about 15 minutes. I'd say realistically you will have the basics almost immediately then it's just picking and choosing what features to use/not use that fit your style.

The hardest part for me has been not getting overwhelmed by all the potential features and picking my battles. I'm speaking mostly about the S4 here but assume the same story would go for the DDJ-SX.

Bottom line, your skills and knowledge will easily transfer to whatever medium if you've been at it for a bit. Your back will thank you and you might even save a trip or two to the car in your particular situation.

Ok buddy,

Let me educate you on the club DJ demographics and what they are spinning since i'm so in denial!

DJ Vice - Turntables/CDJ's
Power 106 Mixers - Turntables
DJ Spryte - Turntables
DJ Splyce - Turntables
DJ Scene - Turntables
DJ Kid Capri - Turntables
DJ Q-Bert - Turntables
DJ AM - If he was still here! Turntables
DJ A-Track - Turntables
DJ Kevin Scott - Turntables
DJ Mikiwar - Turntables
J. Espinosa - Turntables
DJ Chris Villa - Turntables
DJ Jazzy Jim - Turntables
DJ Jazzy Jeff - Turntables
Steve Aoki - CDJ's
Bad Boy Bill - CDJ's/Turntables
Four Color Zack - Turntables
Miles Medina - Turntables
DJ Panic City - Turntables
Funk Master Flex - Turntables
DJ Clue - Turntables
DJ E-rock - Turntables

and much much more! The list goes on. Most radio DJS are still rocking turntables! Please add to this list so we can see the true demographics. I would look at the facts before I talk cause bro your in a bubble by yourself.

DJ pdidy-Controller

Turntables are the controllers of the past! But are still current in the future. Don't forget your roots brotha!

If you are not a scratch dj, the learning curve is minimal (30-60 mins). Scratch djs have a higher learning curve depending on scratch complexity and current skill level. In about 2 days practice I felt comfortable using my VCI300 in a club live. I can preform about 70% of my scratches on the VCI300 with no issue. The other 30% are complex scratches that i can only preform on tech 1200s and are unnecessary in most clubs anyway.

Did you just here that jet plane pass over your head ?

Re-read my original post for a better understanding of my point...

If you've used CDJs for any length of time, it's a really simple transition. All non-spinning platters have little differences, but are fundamentally the same. It's much like going from one brand of turntables to another.

I read your post and it seems that you are promoting controllers and that they are the future. Then it contradicts your post by saying turntables are controllers so you can stay on everyone good side. Then this thread becomes a turntable vs. controllers thread. Which is it? Am I reading something wrong. Clarify what your point is. I'm over it, but I'm not sold on your statement.

Nice list of mostly old hip-hop DJs.

Let's talk about the actual international top names.

David Guetta, Sasha, Skrillex, Armin Van Burren, Tiesto. In fact, the entire DJ Mag Top 100. ALL on CDJs, or when it comes to people like Richie Hawtin, controllers.

Guess what? 15 years ago, they were all playing on vinyl. And people like you were up in arms about CDJs... "It's not real DJing".

5 years ago most of the people in YOUR list were playing real vinyl, and people were up in arms about Serato and Final Scratch... "It's not real DJing".

Well that was bullshit then and it's bullshit saying the same about controllers today.

Technology moves on. Respect and have knowledge of what came before. But embrace the future 'cos it's not going away.

you kind just proved his point, everyone you names got big like in the 90s when TTs where the main choice, controllers didnt exist hell half of em were legends before scratchlive existed


DJ Vice - Turntables/CDJ's
Power 106 Mixers - Turntables - well duh its studio equipment
DJ Spryte - Turntables
DJ Splyce - Turntables
DJ Scene - Turntables
DJ Kid Capri - Turntables
DJ Q-Bert - Turntables
DJ AM - If he was still here! Turntables
DJ A-Track - Turntables
DJ Kevin Scott - Turntables
DJ Mikiwar - Turntables
J. Espinosa - Turntables
DJ Chris Villa - Turntables
DJ Jazzy Jim - Turntables
DJ Jazzy Jeff - Turntables
Steve Aoki - CDJ's
Bad Boy Bill - CDJ's/Turntables
Four Color Zack - Turntables
Miles Medina - Turntables
DJ Panic City - Turntables
Funk Master Flex - Turntables
DJ Clue - Turntables
DJ E-rock - Turntables


Travis porter - Controller
Skrillex - Laptop
Deadmau5 - Laptop
Bl3end - Hopes and dreams
Richy Hawton -Controller
Steve Aoki - Cake\Trampoline\kazoo
Paris Hilton - Paid Employee
Zed - Controller

you beat me to it as i was crafting the joke^...spoilsport

That's a damn shame, because:

lol ya that was the gemstone of the joke lol

i am currently using a djm 900 nexus, with 4 gramophones. You cant beat the feel of a spinning 78

if you want to "keep it real" learn to play an instrument

Alot of those cats you just mentioned are EDM producers with premade mixes! Their music is trending but there credibility as a mix DJ is shot!

Exactly!!! I had a difficult time getting used to the small platters on the NS7 and CDJs and would definetly invest in a controller with 12" platters. Numark and Technics did it with their CD tables several years ago, so why isnt anyone doing it now?

NM NH NS7

its 2012 EVERYONES credibility as a mix dj is shot lol, they have a thing called relevance which most of your list lacks

personally I have no idea how someone can say this

www.pioneer-latin.com

is any more or less ascetically pleasing than this

www.digitaldjtips.com

ay
let's hear a 20 minute mix of someone on a controller. I perfer it be hip hop.
yep

20s kinda difficult since youtube tops out at 10

DJ M. Bezzle. Always trying to start ish! Your credibility may be shot! I would speak for self. Lol There are many dope actual mix DJs out there that aren't getting the credit they deserve. All those DJ's on that list are still relevant.

Ill be honest here and Im sure itll cause an uproar but fuck it lets see what you guys think

I think turntables are BY FAR the best instruments for scratching, the larger diameter and moving disc are perfect and needed. That said how relevant is scratching now? Be honest and try to look at this subjectively. Anyone who grew up in the 80s\90s is gonna love it of course but it was kinda a necessary thing at first then it became a performance thing but to me it seems like when when qbert MMM atrak ect really obtained greatness with it..it seemed to hit a wall...thats why most DMCs are boring, its like the dunk contest theres only so much you can do with it. Its a great talent but your average club goer dosent know that they just know they've heard alot of wikky wikky.

Besides that where are people getting exposed to it? You don hear much scratching in hip hop albums anymore, the general public dosent know what DMCs are and the most known DJs are all producers or rappers, ask most people\especially the younger generation who their fave DJ is and im willing to be money its a DJ who you probably have NEVER heard scratch. You can say its our job (well yalls job since i cant scratch) to carry on the tradition but we live in the age where EVERONES a dj and 9 outta 10 of em AINT puttin in the time to learn to scratch so your hearing more DJs and not NOT scratch.

It seems to me with the technology avaliable and with the way music trends are going its not a worthwhile talent to aquire when you consider the time you have to dedicate to earning it vs the reward. It seems to me the wave of the future is in producing music, seperating yourself through the music you make, either in the studio or more importantly through live performance like your starting to see in those craze and shifty product demos.

It just seems to me as an up and commer THATS what your being exposed to, THATS whats working and thats what one would try to immulate. Where would one whos not old enough to be exposed to scratching get exposed to it if not the club and by then theyve already formed their dj opinion

Im not saying ALL djs will have to do this but it seems to me like theres 2 distinct camps, people who are playing to the crowd, from MY experience those crowds want the song they know how they know it and they dont want you playing with it. And then theres the crowd to see YOU because your creating a product they want.

It could just be me, the west and east coast have rich DJ traditions so it may be a bigger thing over there but in my travels through the southeast i dont see it.

Im not saying a crowd WONT like scratching im sure it blows minds when someone good does it....jsut seems like its dyin out to me.

Relevant to who?? Ask someone whos a non DJ who 90% of those names are and theyll have no idea...hell theres a handful on that list who I have no idea about. Also your proving my point when you say there are mix djs not getting their deserved credit...if the public CARED theyd be getting their credit

Why does anyone have to "get over it"? If people want to use turntables they can use them, just like controllerists want to be left alone to do their thing.

Just because there's a new trend on the scene we're going to usher out a tried, tested and true form of Djing based on some people's perception of "the future"?

Everyone's in a rush to get to the next level before they even perfect themselves with the one they're already on.

You always say things like this based on where YOU are. In my city all the top names are scratchers. They may not be DMC finalists (although some of them are) but for the most part, they all scratch.

I agree with you 100% i think everyone should learn how to "dj" and once they have knowledge then whatever they use is fine...BUT...the comment that controllers are the future is pretty factual, the main player in the TT market is gone so you dont have that to stand on anymore and controllers dont have alot of the issues that other devices have...you dont have to worry about breaking needles, warped vinyl, grounding, scratched CDs, their not as expensive plus you get the whole setup right there.

The ONLY argument is tradition and the keep it real factor but the fact is you can look around and see there is an entire generation of kids looking at deadmau5 who are gonna run to a gutar center and pick up the affordable all in one solution, and they couldnt give a fuck less about keeping it real, and that generation will be what the next one looks up to and so on.

Should've quoted this...

Well I cant really talk knowledgeably about places ive never been now can i lol

but seriously outside of club DJs where would a kid growing up right now see someone scratching....only one I can think of is pauly D and societey has pretty much taught their kids not to do ANYTHING he does lol

No, but somehow you manage to. You're always saying things like "the average club goer" or "90% of the general public" etc, how do you know that when you're speaking based on what you see where you are?

There is a big difference between a DJ and a producer! Pick what you are! Just because you make music does not make you a DJ! Sure producers are trending right now but I would not categorize them as DJs! That's like putting Celine dion in front of CDJ's cause she made her own pre mixed tracks! Now she's called a DJ!

well i can speak about the general public because most people everywhere are exposed to the same pop culture shit, you go in the entertainment section of a website or reviews of a tv show ect ect ect and read the comments and you can get a gage on what people know, facebook for example, i have people from all over the country, mostly club goers and i get feedback from music and news i post so i can speak for that, i also watch videos that djs from around the country post and im just relaying what Im seeing which outside of your top tier guys ISNT alot of scratching

I agree with you thats why I specifically stated there are 2 camps, so if your a dj just play the music people want to hear and move out the way. Your playing someone elses music whoop whoop

If your a club DJ your jobs to set the mood read the crowd and play accordingly to make people dance....hell even ATrak said the same thing after kayne picked him up, he said he had to dumb down his sets to the bare minimum because generally kaynes fans didnt get it

Your city means nothing in the GLOBAL scheme of things. And nor does mine.

The next wave of international stars will have grown up having never touched a vinyl record in their lives. Like it or not, that's the truth.

So are the people I'm talking about not exposed to the same pop culture? Mobile, AL has a population of 200k? I have more than that on my street LOL. I'm in a major market city, we have millions of tourists pass through here annually

It's like when dude posted the list of local Hip Hop guys, you posted a list of international EDM guys and shrugged them off as if what's going on at home doesn't count.

Yup, thats more or less what im saying

Thats what Im getting at where do you think the next wave of up and commers who are going to carry the tradition and keep the craft alive..the top 10 major markets or the rest of the world globaly?

LOL how do you figure? So a city of millions, with millions of tourists a year doesn't actually mean anything in terms of what some people may like in the "GLOBAL" scheme of things?

So everybody in the world likes Deadmau5 (who is actually from MY city) and the other top 5 EDM guys list, and nothing else matters?

DJing is more than just playing someone else's music! It's about crowd control, breaking new music, art, expressing different Genres of music, blending and making music sound doper than how the actual track is produced! Any Veteran DJ would surely know that!

LOL so nobody's going to care what's hot in their own market, they're only going to care what's going on globally, so what if they're from an other part of the globe? Will they only like what's going on here because it's global to them?

Not everyone likes the same thing just because you say they do, that's been the whole point of my argument.

People like different things, Jersey Shore cast members do not reflect ALL Italian Americans just like some bottle service crowds do not reflect ALL people who go out for a night on the town.

Let me try and put it liek this, lets say im a kid not old enough to go to the club, and i think i love music i want to be a dj, whos the best i want to be like them and i google top 10 best djs heres what comes up

vesperblack.com

www.forbes.com


thissongissick.com

www.vibe.com

DJ Mag top 10 2012 List
Armin Van Buuren
Tiesto
Avicii
David Guetta
Deadmau5
Hardwell
Above and Beyond
Dash Berlin
Afrojack

Theres not a scratch DJ on there.......and if you go by DJs who are public figures your gonna have guys like khaled and clue who people just know through unmixed albums



So like i said if your a 10 year old who wants to get into this who are you gonna emulate?

And I agree but I keep wasking where does a kid growing up now get exposed to scratching as an artform?? In the 80s and 90s it was VERY prominant in TVs and movies....i can think of ANYWHERE besides a few jersey shore clips where anyone would see it

It should be producers move out of the way! A DJ is here to play your stuff and make it sound better than what it really is. We don't want to hear every track you produced back to back!

your right their songs sell millions of copys as is, either beat wise or lyrically but what the audience really wants to here is the same wikky wikky that you do on every other song lol




who does that?

Hell im trying to find a top 10 list of hiphop djs and cant even find one....bet has one but half of their list is the guys who created the damn art lol

Apparently Panasonic think that. Otherwise I guess they'd still be pumping out those 1200s to meet that massive global demand.

CDJs killed turntables, and CDJs are next to go.

You would have to pry my 1200s out of my cold, dead, hands. But it doesn't mean I can't see what's happening out there. Apparently you've got some kind of blinkers on though.

I just told you... HERE

What about the west coast, is their not an entire scene of DJ's who are known for being more mixworthy than the east coast slam mixerers? What about the kids growing up with older brothers and sisters who go to The Do Over?

What about the legions of kids who did and STILL worship the likes of AM?

You keep posting the current top EDM guys but A) who knows if they're going to be what's "hot" in 10 years? B) what if the kid doesn't like EDM to begin with?

Exactly, i was100% in the TTs forever camp but im sorry I cant stand support that camp when the camp leader dosent have confidence in it, TTs where THE table and once you cant find something in stores OR your paying 5 times the price for what lamans would consider antiquated tech then i dont see a bright future in it

im sure 99.999% of new DJs will never check this forum and the ones that do will NEVER be traditional djs...have you seen how we treat new DJs here? Hell the entire forum has changed its stance DRASTICALLY just over the last year that should tell you somehting

First of all, Technics demise was their build quality more than anything else. Secondly you're arguing just to argue because I was addressing Bezzle's expertise on the club scene and whether people like to listen to scratching or not.

You see Bezzle likes the straw man tactic and you got swept up in it ;)

^ thats pretty much what im asking I dont know if nonclub goers in cali are exposed to it as much. Like I said no matter what cali will be an exception to the rule because it has a RICH dj culture and tradition, same in NY




ITS ALL I CAN FIND, find me a list of relevant hiphop or club djs and well discuss, i promise im looking hard but nothings out there

Dosent matter a demise is a demise, kids who want to get into this will go to guitar centers and online retailers and techs will NOT be there and if they are their like $1300

I mean HERE as in my city, you asked

Here, as in where I live, where all the top guys DO scratch in the club, even in the most bottle service douchebaggiest places they scratch.

As for the forums, yes there are an astounding ammount of Djs who will never set foot in here, whether it's because we treat them like shit, or they use Traktor or they just follow a different scene completely, you cannot sweep every DJ under the same rug as far as what they're influenced by.

fucking wonderful the future of scratch djing rests in canada (;) jk)

Relevant to WHO?

Someone already posted a list of DJ's but because they weren't relevant to YOU, you dismissed them. Does that mean nobody else in the world listens to them?

Again, people are influenced by different things, and just as you think certain guys are "old news" eventually that same list you posted will be "old news"

LOL I know you're just messing around but did I not also bring up LA? (The Do Over, guys like AM etc)

Rubbish. So why aren't other companies rushing in to sell shiny new alternatives? The market is dead.



I'm arguing because I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying. I'd be saying the same things whether Bezzle was here or not.

The premise of this thread is that controllers are the future. I absolutely believe that to be the case, and you clearly don't, because apparently you don't have it in you to picture anything apart from your cosy Western life situation.

Go watch Diplo's documentary Flavela On Blast and tell me how many of those kids from the slums in Rio give two shits about keeping it real with a pair of Technics.

And thats fine there will always be scratching i guess but it just seems to me someone outside the 80s\90s fasination with TTs a controller is the sensable choice, all in one package, no breakable\replaceable parts less hastle and confusion and besides the MAJOR hit in the scratching area it duplicates EVERYTHING you can do with a TT and CDJ......personally i think a grown ass man on controller looks fucking foolish but thats because i grew up in an era of big TTs

That person listed a list that someone in the DJ culture would know, if your just entering our world show me some kind of list on who the big dogs are

That's not what I'm arguing and you know it, or else you don't because your straw man is so effective it's even got you convinced that I'm arguing that.

And BTW, Technics aren't the only turntable in existence.

TO BE CLEAR IM NOT TAKING EITHER SIDE I LOOOOOVE MY TTS AND SCRATCHING IS AWESOME BUT I ALSO SEE THE LOGICAL CHOICE OF A CONTROLLER TO THE NEXT!!!! GENERATION

wouldnt put it past me....im sure i confuse myself more often than i realise

You assume that the general public wouldn't know who they are, because you speak from a position of absolutes based on perception.

LOL

true but to a noob to the market which would you be more comfortable with, the other brands who djs have been downing for YEARS as shit equipment, that you have to buy tons of parts and add one and create a setup, or the all in one package, one payment and your done

When I agree that controllers are the future it may not be today and it may not be tomarrow it may be 10 20 30 years down the line but you gotta see that realitys commin

no i speak from a person whos obsessed with dj culture and i dont know half of em lol. Heres a test next time you get gas or food ask the attendant if he\she knows who Miles Medina is

Oh I "clearly" don't? See what I'm saying, you don't even know what I'm arguing here, back to the drawing board for you.




LOL @ my cozy western life situation, assumption 2, and you know what they say about those.

lol ive seriously been in threads arguing and half way through notice that ive switched sides without knowing it lol, i should have been a lawyer i dont thnk many people in this world argue as well as i do for the simple fact that most people dont fall for their own arguments and look at both sides of the issue with the same feriocity

to be fair it appears snooky lives in your minifridge so you cant have it that hard

HAHA it's funny because I've seen you switch sides. It's just that you hammer a point so hard sometimes that people get confused about what's actually being argued, and then of course that new argument becomes what's been argued all along.

LMAO

Watchwww.youtube.com

^ BINGO!

I've been to Ontario.

And if you have the resources and enough free time to spend it posting on a DJ forum on the internet, then right now, you are living a cosy Western life. No assumption required.

Eventually there's no alternative. A few years back there was a wave of Djs who bought Numark turntables even though us other DJs had branded them absolute shit, but at the time techs were still an option. I've noticed that the Stantons have become popular amongst DJs who can't get their hands on Technics, I've considered a pair myself (I think I saw big Wiz using them).

Technics were just the undisputed, hands down best turntable out there, so when it came to the others there wasn't a need to agree on what would be the next up as an "industry standard" within the turntable scene.

You've been to Ontario, you must be an expert! You also must know me.

LOL is that all you've got? What does this have to do with what Bezzle and I were arguing?

Seriously, with a point like that EVERY new DJ who can afford a turntable or controller is living a cozy existence, so it has little bearing on the conversation.

I will lug my Technics around to every gig I have and sacrifice the whole convince part! It's part of DJing! If I get tired of lugging them around I will pay someone to help me.

So he cant be an expert on that just from visiting but the visitors passing through leave with dj culture knowledge right?
lol

Who said that?

and thats fine, thats not what im arguing. What Im saying is if you were a 15 year old kid who wants to get his foot in the foor are you going to take the back breaking option that requires TONS of maitnence or the easy all in one option that does the exact same thing?

I look at it like the car scene, first you had muscle cars...good old detroit horsepower, then you had the import scene with all the neons and turbo chargers which werent as naturally powerful but had alot more tech and cool points......now the trends moving to Hybrids and electric cars because their cost efficient and easier on the enviroment.


Old muscle cars = techs
rice burners = cdjs
hybrids = controllers

And where in that sentence do I say that?

You're misrepresenting my words Bezzle, it doesn't work on me.

When I mocked Phatbob's comments in regards to him now being an expert of Ontario, your response would've only worked if I had said that everybody who comes through here is a scratch expert.

All I said was the DJs scratch here (not just here, I mentioned other places as well) so A) it's not unheard of that a new Dj might also want to scratch after being exposed to it B) if millions of people are still going to clubs where Djs scratch, you can't sweep everybody under your assumptions rug.

speaking for only certain parts/segments of texas

I mean here's a guy saying I live a cozy existence because I'm on the internet, while typing from the internet... his comments are redundant and have no bearing on the conversation at hand. He just got confused about what was being argued and had to pull something else out of the hat.

We're not discussing who lives in the worst countries of the world here, we're talking about what kids are being exposed to by other DJs.

Internet connection: $20 a month x 12 = $240 annual
Popular controllers: $1000
Cheapo controllers: $300

So in those regards, anybody who's buying a controller lives a cozy existence so I'm not sure why you went there other than a cheap shot (if you could call it that)

oh no, its the highlander again

This (no matter who's arguing what side of what argument)

You don't see controllers in big clubs here, but what's a big club here vs. what's a big club elsewhere could be two different things so I/you/we can't deny their existence.

What Bezzle sees in his scene is not the end all be all of the Dj scene everywhere. Even the "DJ scene" itself will be different animals depending on where you are.

Dj Shamann
What your position in regards to my ORIGINAL post ? Pick it apart line by line if you choose.

The first thing I said in this thread is all I really had to say about it. I don't think anybody has to "get over" anything, it implies that one way over the other is the "right way"

The only reason i stayed in this thread was to respond to Bezzle and the point that i notice he generalizes a lot based on what he sees, therefore discounting other things just because he himself isn't exposed to it.

Averix your welcome to do the same point for point.

That is absolutly not what im saying, implying and or meaning.....

That's fine, and I'll take your word on that. In fact if it was someone else who I wasn't familiar with I might have went harder on the point. I just mentioned what I thought about the original statement (in the title of the thread) and what it could imply (intentional or not)

Vinyl was already done outside of djing when I was a kid (I'm 39). Djing (especially hip hop) as far as I was concerned started with vinyl. It wasn't a continuation from 8 tracks and stuff. So for me the progression of music players does not equal the progression of djing. the turntable era was already over for most people as it is for most people now. Now that you can "dj" on the new stuff it makes sense that most people will move on.

The future is the future and it is yet to be seen, what people use now for their own reasons is what they use. Being told something else is "the" future could come off as condescending and does nothing but create an even bigger divide between some people.

Just to clarify. What is the point of this thread? I took it as controllers are the future and move over turntables/CDJs cause their extinct even though you mentioned them as controllers. I felt it was a way of boasting up controllers but not getting on the bad side of djs who actually use turntables/CDJs on the regular. Correct if I'm wrong. Did anyone else take it this way?

get over it = It will happen regardless of our position be it good, bad or indifferent.

Again, that's fine... but usually within the English language (at least over here in North America, where you and I both live) when you tell someone to "get over it" it has a context.

Its not like im making nostradamus type prediction considering to proof is here now.

ok cool, we on the same page now.

The funny thing about what I was arguing with Bezzle (it just started to get too sidetracked) is that with the new era of controllers and what can be done on them, I think this list of "top" EDM guys (or at least their style of performing) will become obsolete eventually too.

If you look at how Traktor markets their platform say with Craze and his hybrid style, they're emphasizing both styles of DJing, button pushing AND scratching, and it's not just limited to Hip Hop. In ten years time when controllerism has become more prominent and legitimized, you have to wonder who are the kids going to want to see more? David Guetta clapping his hands over a CD player, or a performer who grew up on Craze treating Traktor like his bitch?

10yrs from now djs like myself will still be rocking 1200s but I dread the fact that we will be on the endangered species list. We may very well be the last generation of traditional turntable djs.( Dammm, I hate sayin that)

The title of the thread speaks for itself.


Controllers are our future, get over it !

Boasting up controllers! And get over it! Just asks for controversy!

I would only justify a statement if their we're hard factual evidence that provides truth. As far as the future, my technics look like they have another good 15 years for their future.

I think this has already been debunked, keep up now....lol

Are you serious ?

Bro your confusing me. If love your turntables bring them around. Don't settle for a controller because everyone else is doing it. Like DJ AM said he gonna keep rocking turntables. I thought I saw that somewhere. You can quote him.

Clear and simple! Would you send someone to jail based on evidence or would it be hear say! Base your stuff on facts bro!

Read the last sentence of my 1st post....Seems my position is clear. You hear what you want to hear....(shrugggs)

Bro not to put you on the spot! But you come off as a 8th grade mean girl that needs attention! Dude just because you post that last sentence does not justify your title. Write something that make sense!

Naa I think ya trolling softly.......How many screen names you got ?....lol

we are. Just can't see turntables coming back unless it's some retro fad and even then - how much longer are guys like stanton and numark going to continue with making TTs? Controllers are obviously the way the market is going although I can see the pro market going more of a modular thing...

i have a bunch of people (non dj's wanting to be one) on my facebook posting what they got for xmas and guess what they all have in common... ALL were controllers. most Numark Mixtrack Pros, some Germini, some Vestax, etc.. not one ever mentioned getting a set of Tech 12's. i guess that is where its headed

@ $2,800 for a new set, it's no wonder. I did the whole controller thing, and I came to HATE it.....I missed my Techs, and have since gone back to them. But, if it is eventually going to be controllers or nothing, I'll opt for something like TWITCH, or just a Pair (or two) of X1's. If you are going the controller route, what's the point of holding on to antiquated jogwheels? I mean, if it's gonna' be Beat Sync'd, and Quantized button mashing, might as well keep it just that.

that maybe cool for you techno EDM djs but for hiphop, no way...... jogwheels are required.

i also dont believe TT will ever make a come back because stanton , numark and vestax just dont have the balls to do it. Its 1200 nothin for me. Cant use the other brands.....But thats another topic.

Turntables don't need to make a come back (yet). They're still all around us and used by thousands of DJ's.

Just like CDJ's and turntables, controllers will find their place in the DJ world whether it's at the mercy of mostly new jacks or in the hands of those who have true skills and can use them to elevate the art.

Here's my take on it.

Controllers are the future.

I use Techs and a 62 BTW.

But...until clubs and radio make a specific controller the standard in their booths like the 12, it's still got a way to go for the consumers to catch up and eventually standardize it unless a controller becomes like a laptop where everyone brings their controller of choice.

Who is to say the DDJ-SX will be the standard in 3-5 years. It seems like a new controller comes out more often than an Andriod phone.

I have a fascination with old school dj's such as Jazzy Jeff and his passion for music as a whole and it would be interesting to see what he would do on a DDJ-SX.

I dunno man... just yesterday I was doing an in-store set at a Tommy Hilfiger store, and this like 10-12 year old kid was watching me, like totally transfixed with me mixing on turntables. When I took the phones off for a sec, he asked "hey man, do you scratch? will you do some scratching?"

I was hella stoked to see a "today's generation" kid who was into scratching, so of course I complied lol. Mixed in Renegade Master, loaded up the scratch crate, got buck with it for a bit and this kid's eyes were just HUGE. He was so into it. I think there is still hope.

Im stuggling with this as we speak, i have a new years gig thats perfect for a controller, small room upstairs that i dont feel like bringin a full setup to. To me the sx is the first controller ive seen that has everything i want.....but i know with my luck ill plop down the 999 and a month later NAMM will unveil some nuclear powered drone telepathic shit

Yes.
Multiple companies making new controllers every year and none will be the standard.
I also prefer my 62+MG5's but for mobile I usually will use either my 62+CDJ's or a controller. Much easier faster to setup & dismantle.

I also come from the era when the only medium for DJing was vinyl. I did see the progression of the DJ using newer technology..... Vinyl, CDs, Computer.... and I embraced new technology. I also agree that controllers in one form or another are the future.

If i had to guess id to guess id say (as far as the future goes) there wont be a standard....since the controllers are all in one units and very very portableit should be like showing up with your guitar

I'm afraid of that too, and even though that may be true. I don't there is anything more than a new controller would be able to do for me that this one can't. For the way I play anyway.

I'm glad you mentioned NAMM. For all we know there will be a Technics/Rane collaboration on a controller with decks that have a spinning platter like a 12 with a built in Rane Sixty Two-like mixer.

In the meantime, M5G's & 62 for me.

This is the way i see it. You have two options

You can be a DJ - Disc Jockey who mixes music! And scratches (Turntables/CDJ'S)
It's known that turntables will catch the eye of others.

Or you can be a BJ - A beat jockey who produces music (Controllers, software programs, etc.) yes you can also scratch on a controller but its not the same feel.

Which one are you? A DJ or a BJ.

I'd rather be called a DJ and a "BJ"...just saying...

I separated the two for you all!

+1, that's a no brainer...


Good little story there; that's one of those things that may stick in that kids memory for as long as he lives. If he becomes some sort of a musician or DJ, he may point back to you as his inspiration.

Deadmau5 just signed a $20 milion club gig....ill do what hes doin, for that kinda money you can call me whatever you want, its your tip its hurting lol

Very true but the truth if you could have just baby scratched on the controller a few times and youd still be his hero lol

That's Deadmau5 doing his thing! That's not you. You see, Deadmau5 stands out cause of his big Mickey Mouse head. He made an image for the EDM world. What are you doing besides saying you want to be him. That $20 million is just hear say! Shoot he can be getting paid $500 bucks a night for all we know. But that's just rumors until you see his actual bank account. You want to be called a BJ, Change your screen name to BJ M. Bezzle.

Please start calling yourself a BJ if you fall in that category so we can decipher from the two.

when the guy at GC says this s4/s2 or ddj-sx is what all the big guys are playing on and dad is buying, he'll end up with a controller thats about 300-500$. or he will pay for decks that he found for 500$ on ebay/craigslist, buy carts and a mixer for another 500, and be able to track all that down...........

That was just an example!

bad example

Let me educate you! Here is video interview of Deadmau5 on the Dj city blog if the link will show up. You do not know what goes on behind the scenes and there are ways of promoting something to really feeble minded people to get their money. Are you one of them?

blog.djcity.com

This.....though BJ bezzle has a ring to it....i think i found my gimmik!

Which is better or worse than your idea of standing out by moving your hand back in forth in the same way thousands of others have done for 40 years

if you're not scratching or performing any type of turntablism theres no need for you to be on turntables.


:D

I don't think it's the same. I get similar reactions from people in their 40s and 50s when I spin on the casino floor too... I use a lot of real vinyl and they are super stoked to see somebody with ACTUAL records lol. There is something special about seeing a DJ on turntables that will never be replicated by any controller.

Having said that, someone got me one of those $99 Numark iDJ controllers that works off an iPhone for Christmas, and I'll be damned if that thing isn't actually a lot more fun that I expected lol. I now have a new toy for hotel rooms and long road trips haha.

Lol

"@deadmau5: I need more little people and maypoles in my life right now."

"@deadmau5: And by little people I mean midgets."

"@deadmau5: ... And by midgets I mean @zedd and @madeon"

I dont like djing anyway im just tryna get my porno career started

There is something special about seeing a DJ on turntables that will never be replicated by any controller.

Well said.

Very true...its called nostalgia. Its the same reason people pay to see dinosaur bones in a musieum

Brother you have a lot of learning to do.

We all know thats not gonna happen

BJ Bezzle - your a funny guy!

bezzle on fire, although averix is making this way too easy.

look dude, i book shows, or used to before they got to expensive. they really make this money.

I had a big name dubstep artist in 2009 that went from 4500$, to 7000 4 months later, to not even taking my bid at 10k for a fall show because it had already been sucked up by big name event promotion company. and this dude is way behind kaskade, tiesto, deadmau5 and tons of other djs/producers.

Mr. Good kat!

I know they well make over $500 dollars a night! You are reading to deep. I know what the club scene is like. Undercutting dj's, paying for acts. It all fits into a budget. Sometimes club promoters just break even. I'm done explaining myself. You obviously didn't watch the video.

Deadmau5 can talk about how much he personally gets paid all he likes...

You think a tour with 14 crew comes cheap?

edmsnob.com

yeah phatbob, i dont think most of these people really get the fact that, while these guys do get paid tons for djing, they have alot of backend costs. not only the crew, but the booking agents and the pr people aren't cheap.

i know what other costs they incur. when they say, 9 million, they are talking about the what they get paid before all of the other costs get paid. Basically like everyone else in the world. if i make 80k, it doesnt mean 80k is in my bank account or i have access to 80k, it means thats what i made or generated for myself before taxes, buying control vinyl and condoms.

True.....what i would like to know is how much $$$ he makes a year off his other mau5trap artists

i still say the industry standard would be if Rane just said F it and made a in house controller based of the 1200 in a battle style position. Hell the only thing you'd take out of the equation is the needle and there ya go

we can all dream ;)

Church

if rane packaged something equivalent to the numark CDX and put a 62 between two of those...id be the first one in line to buy that ish

You know what blows my mind...pioneer and serato put out whats currently the best controller on the market and there us not one video of a top tier dj showing its potential NOT ONE! Do you have any idea the kinda globtrotter type shit NI would have craze and shiftee doin in that thing? Theyd be pulling rabbits outta it! As a matter of fact just to watch the product overview on youtube i had to sit thru a traktor z2 commercial

That's true. I've seen a couple vids that users made where I was like "hmm, that feature is sick, I bet I could do x or y with that." What they need is a video with heavy hitters really flexing on it.

I'm guessing Pioneer isn't willing to pay any big name DJ's to endorse their product as of yet.

hmmm well a guy from hometown said something that describes this best "the loudest *bleep* is usually bogus" ~ wale

yea if you got a good product you dont need to pay pros to use it because they'll do it for free by using your gear during performances. there are cameras everywhere these days, if it makes the cut...just said back and wait. once they do post that pic or give that unofficial endorsement...

send him a T shirt, fly them out to factory, buy them lunch, throw a video up calling them a "icon", give them a free piece of product they already brought and push them back out into the cold n cruel world of DJ celebrity fame...

hmmmm now what company does that sound like that is based out of Washington state?

^incorrect its been proved the best marketing stratagey is not to just give the facts and let the best win, people shop with their hearts not their heads

Thats the thing why have the icon series if your not gonna use the icons to endorse your product lol

thats like saying a man marries his wife because she was "there" for him...but the truth she is the only woman that would consistently give him a lay and stuck around. lol

What serato/rane is doing is being a professional classy woman playing hard to get hoping a guy will notice her

NI is that crazy dirty bitch invitin her friends over for 3somes pokin holes in condoms

I know a whooolle lot more guys married to traktors lol

LMAO this is actually selling me on making the switch Traktor if thats the case. "You say no to ratchet *bleep* DJ Tre lbs cant" lol

except for the fact that they don't make techs anymore, they don't make parts anymore, and most clubs and venues don't bother tuning and repairing them anymore.

It's only a matter of time before they are phased out completely except for the dinosaurs like us. Might not be in our lifetime, but it will happen. Hell, think about how many local dj-oriented record shops dropped off in cities within 5 years of digital djing becoming the norm. We went from having at least 10 shops in my city (medium market ~2mil people) to having just one left that is now only barely hanging on specializing more in used records.

Well, it will take at least 25 years for all Technics that are in circulation to stop working. Maybe even 50. I don't mean in clubs because people who don't own something never take care of it

nm

yes and thats 25 years worth of new generations who are walking into stores and not seeing techs, 25 years isnt alot of tim ein the grand sceme of things but its lightyears in tech time

Its kinda crazy that were on the verge of quantum computeing and were still having a discussion about analog playback mediums lol

its like traktor, i see the popularity of that being able to only use your comp and its internal sound card to dj. upgrades come as the user becomes more affluent and you can use it with all tts/cds/controllers.

Well not really since the whole "analog" changed when DVS started. nm

the timecodes still analog no?

Yeah. So it's the turntable but it doesn't change the fact that it controls and plays digital music. Unless Rachet music is really time code sounds lol

See what I did there? hahaha

lol, wrench music = timecode + phaser

Watchwww.youtube.com

^ there we go, class in session

Watchwww.youtube.com

Honestly this is mute as we are seeing an influx of controllers the writing is on the wall, hell they don't make the best turntable in the world anymore that should tell you something. If there was money to be made Technics would still be making it, are you telling me they said fuckit I don't want to make money anymore? Pioneer sold out 10,000 units in like a day ,,,, need I say more. They pushed out a second batch and you still can't find one.

The DDJ-SX is the first all in one controller I have owned do I expect it to be the controller of choice in 3 years I don't know but at $1,000 doallars a pop it's just throw away electronics to me hell I spent more on records back in the day and got paid less. As far as Turntables or Controllers I still get paid the same and still get the same results.. I am not DJ Jazzy Jeff (MY DJ IDOL and the reason I purchased Serato) so I don't have to show that set of skills every time I hit the stage if did then I would never look at a controller.

I see it like this in the near future, those that get paid to scratch will have turntables those who do not will have controllers. Scratching on controller has come a long way and is getting better with time, soon it will truly be about the nostalgic look not scratching then what. So for me those parties requiring 1210's like Hip Hop parties 80's 90's I will use turntables other than that I will use the controller that's how good the controller (DDJ SX anyway)is. If you could not see the set up I bet you couldn't tell which was which well you might if they used everything the controller can do.

All in all it seems a little HYPOCRITICAL that people would down or say they would not look at or use a controller when they are currently using one themselves. (Serato, Dicers, X-1 X-2 TTM 57 62's midi Controllers of all kinds and the list could go on. Think about that the next time you talk about controllers if you don't like them stop using them. : ) May Turntables live for ever at the same time may all dj's embrace the future.

For those thinking that you can't scratch on controllers and it sound good check out this link..... He did this video the day he got the unit..youtu.be

I think 3'years may be pushing it

U getting one Bezzle

ddj sx that is

Im really thinking about it..im honestly wrestling wuth the issue (which goes to show i take this game waaay to seriously lol)

I acutually went to guitar center yesterday and they were sold out, theres inat a gc about an hour away so im debating.

I think the sx looks AWESOME i like the build quality and i like some of the features scratchlive dosent offer like the slicer and the crispy fx. Also it would be a serious upgrade for me in the mixer dept and it would be nice to have crossfadable video.

Also i use a very heavy coffin for my TTs which has caused me to acutually lose gigs, i had a call last sunday for a last minute gig but had to turn it down because i didnt have anyone around to help move shit (u could have taken everythink apart then reasembled it but fuck that) also little shiity gigs like friends house partys...dont need to full setup.


My issue though is ive seen people use controllers and in certin venues it looks less than impressive. I thought i was over that but the other night i was cattin with my mom who knows nothing about djing whos always commenting about how much ish i gotta carry. I showed it ti her online thinkin shed be impressed by all the bells and whistles and her first reaction was ...ehhh not very impressive your setup looks more professional. As a 6"4 240 pound dude im a lil wary of monstering over this little controller on stage.

Im fairly sure ill get one, its only a grand and it seems like a smart piece of equipment as a just in case. Ive been to alot of partys where i didnt know what theyd have equipment or space wise or a last minute thing i dont wanna go all out for

My current concern is the spot ive been at for the last 4 years just changed managment. Its upstairs and inpratical to carry all my shit up and down nightly so i just always left my ish there. When managment changed my shit got locked in for 2 weeks so i learned my lessin about leaving stuff. They just hired me back for new years and i dont know if they have intentions on keeping me after that so i THINK ill just bring out the tts (plus its new years and i wanna be on my techs at midnight :) ) but if im booked there again after that ill most likley start usin the controller. If im not booked after new years ill probably wait because im not really activly seeking gigs (working on production) and grand is kinda a waste on a controller if your not giggn out. Especially after dropping five grand on production stuff.

:) I'm 6"4 and 227 with big hands, It is small but compaired to others the biggiest. The main reason for me to go and get one was the exact same reason space/size. Being that it is so small and the only thing you need to carry other than mic and laptop it can be set up almost anywhere. I do a lot of diffrent venues and typically if space is provide I set up a facsade in front of me. People are suprrised when the get behind it to see my using this controller thinking I had turntables. So people are impressed by what they hear not what they see....A few gigs and it's paid for anyway it's for sure cheaper than buying cdj's and a mixer....if you do get one I would suggest you get the softcase it's best for dj's that do clubs with small spaces and you can carry your laptop in the same bag and carry that bag on your back. I have the hardcase becasue I always used them mostly for protection.

I was thinking about getting the coffin for it so id get a shelf for a laptop (to be covered in super tight spaced) i know its more about what people hear than see but at my main spot theres no way you wont see how small it it (nh nm)

Eh - controllers are plastic and shit

I have the glide case for it and love it. Yet I still carry my ubesrstand just in case it's tight and I need to set up diffrently,,, meaning take out the case. You say a controller looks less impressive and I say someone doing all that shit with a controller is impressive. So to say they will so how small it is really a mute point if your rocking that shit.... Anyway nuff said on my part..... Enjoy the Holidays only tiime I can get on these fourms is when at work... To busy otherwise helps me pass my day....



Name a truntable made of complete steal.... or anything for that matter...

Eh

Im fairly positive the sx is aluminum i could be wrong

Also i like that the sx offers features scratchlive dosent. Keeping it reals all well and good until your missing out on features.

The way i see it its 4 chanels so plug your tts in and get 4 deck goodneds with all the featured :)

What about five deck tho?

No no no fo deck not five

sticking with four dicks - eh?
Nm

Really? www.numark.com
You don't say... www.numark.com

Eh - I don't click on links.

NS7 and V7.

Eh - plastic

Akiems off his meds again

He's no prince of Zamunda...

I pushed the "Like" button.

apparently

Face plate is aluminum
Frame and bottom cover are hard plastic
serato.com

Was your reason for purchasing a controller to replace equipment or was it a your first piece of equipment.

Me?

Definitely not my first equipment. Started djaying in the mid 80s.
I like to try out new gear. Gearwhore in denial lol

So leteral these dudes is

No idea who you are directing your question to but for me, i was not replacing anything and i already owned all dj standards ie. Wax, scratch live, tech1200, cdj1000. I like to stay on top of new dj technology so i purchased a controller day 1 of being introduced. To my surprise i was able to preform most things just as well on my controller. Alot of djs looked at me like i was crazy back in 2008 when it started rockin it in the clubs. But the same djs said the same thing back in 2004 when serato was introduced and i was the first dj i knew of using it. Now they are all using serato and many came to me for training.

Because I have to be that guy...

What is "leteral"?

Controllerists will never know the pain of having "ODYSSEY" imprinted into their hands on a weekly basis.

controllers are dope, I use a VCI-300, its been thru hell and cant really complain. Still prefer 1200s + 57 but hey its better to be well rounded with dj gear.

Def not my first and def not a replacment, just another tool for the arsenal. A knife in the sock if you will

I figure worst case senario i can use it to hit someone over the head if they try and steal my techs lol

Not mine, I have been doing this since the 80 as well, and have a gang of shit but to be honest I see no need in kepping CDJ's with this controller no need to keep a ttm57 if I have an S-1 and S-2 nd truntables. I have enough shit collecting dust already and I will sell

Something odd happened last night...a bunch of djs (who i dont know personally) were having the typical controllers vs tts argument. I put my 2cents.....and they ALL told my opinion dosent count cause i play videos....since when is the video jock the black sheep of the music world lol

Add up the weight of the NS7 and a fully loaded modified Flight Case, and you'll know exactly why I'm calling bullshit on this.

I moved my tech a little to the right and a guys controller fell of the table.

Doesnt come close to the odyseey dj coffin that would hold 2x 1200, 19" rack mixer and dual cd player, plus the matching amp rack.

The NS7 is an anomaly in its' class. The exception, not the rule. Most controllers are light enough that my kid could carry one without strain lol.

^ ya thats kinda the point of em lol

yea I used to role like that back in the 80s.....

If you want to talk heavy, This is what I used to haul to gigs back in the day. This thing weighed a TON!

www.platinum-records.com

HaHaHa...
I remember in the 80's, a friend made a DJ bigger monster that had amps as well. That was one heavy MoFo.

My amp racks locked like this back in 80's-90's an I dont miss them
i26.photobucket.com

EDM djs had good reason to switch to CDJs. Its much safer not to worry about grounding, needles and all that stuff. Cdjs are also more suited for playing house music and are a lot safer to play on.

That being said I don't see much advantages of moving from cdjs to controllers apart from the mobility part.
I´ve still only seen controllers a few times, and never in a real clubs.
If you are a dj you wanna learn to play on industry standard gear and that means technics 1210 and pioneer cdjs. Everything else comes second.

I have no doubt controllers or midi decks will eventually take over, but not the "mobile" ones such as s4 and alike.

You forgot about price !. Thats a BIG deal.....

Too late, "all in one" controllers have already taken over the "New dj market" soon mobile djin. Whatever can or will stop this direction we're going in has not been invented or introduced yet.

buy a new one every couple years?

- eh

Yea just like you do will your smart phone.....

I'm keeping mine 'til it breaks and can't be fixed.

well ive been using my vci300 since 2008 and im still happy with it so..... millage my vary....

I've been using my VCI 380 more than my techs the last little while since I've been doing so many mobiles for the Xmas season. I can scratch, juggle and cut with them reasonably well (not that I do much of that for mobiles) and the reduced size and weight is a godsend for those events where most couldn't care less what I'm using.

I always offer an option to use turntables for an added fee and guess what? I think I've had 2 clients in the last 2 years that took up the offer.

Still prefer techs and that's what I use for clubs and real parties, but if I'm lugging my discontinued techs out to shows and clubs and putting them in danger, I need to get compensated for them...

eh - they gave me a smart phone, otherwise I would just have a dumb phone till it breaks and I throw it away like the rest of the plastic consumer bullshit I got

planned obsolescence

same here, looking at the VCI-380, but will pull the trigger after NAMM.

Capitalism can't survive without it ;-)

Funny how the everyone talks about "how a controller looks" while you're DJing. If we had a blind audio test of controllers (cheap vs expensive), CDJ's, turntables, ALL PLAYING THE SAME MIX OF MUSIC. Would the result be the same? Most likely.

I think it's a causality problem. A common statistical error. "Most controller DJs" aren't that good therefore "Controllers" must be the problem.

And the problem went back to CD DJ's vs vinyl... "Most CD DJs" weren't as good as their vinyl counterparts therefore "CD" players must be the problem.

I counter this argument is that the DJ is the cause of the problem. Because I bet if you took ANY, i mean ****ANY**** of those turntable rocking master DJ's and put them on a decent controller, they would likely rock the party as good as they always do.

If you can rock a crowd on ANY medium, that makes you a good DJ. Not what you use to achieve it.

" I counter this argument is that the DJ is the cause of the problem. Because I bet if you took ANY, i mean ****ANY**** of those turntable rocking master DJ's and put them on a decent controller, they would likely rock the party as good as they always do."

I disagree. There is stuff that you can do with a turntable that YOU CANNOT DO WITH MOST CONTROLLERS. So, unless you're talking about rocking a party by way of music selection and music selection alone, then I disagree with you.

Okay so maybe the "turntablism" tricks you can't do - but let's go back to that current top 100 DJ list... And considering I've seen turntablism tricks done on CDJ-800's, 1000's it makes me wonder if it's possible to do them as well on a decent sized control platter.

Shit. I can rock a party with the current top 100 DJ list... WITHOUT MIXING!!!!!!

Does that make me a better DJ? Nope.

I can rock a party without even playing any music!

Dem's skills!

Yes I forgot about price



In numbers sold world wide maybe. I don´t got the numbers but I actually doubt that controllers have taken the market. But thats not important, whats important is what is installed in clubs and festivals. If you look at the big djs, its just a handful of them using controllers. You still see far far more technics around clubs and festivals then controllers.

The mobility of the controller is going at cost of everything else. You get a poor mixer, platter, poorer sound, Poor or no hardware efx, I don´t see professional djs or clubs ditch all this to be "mobile" Do clubs need a "mobile"? NO. It is only mobile djs and djs that play private parties that need this really. When Richie Hawtin playing on controllers I doubt he is doing it for the mobility. Hawtin need auto sync to play the way he does, and thats why he is on traktor and controllers instead of turntables or cdjs.

there are also things you can do on controllers you cant do on TTs

what percentage of the total market is top tier festival djs and what percent is bedroom/local bar/small club





Poor efx?? Have you heard the fx on the sx VS sl??

Maybe. But you see a lot more CDJs than either Techs or controllers.

And that's the point: 15 years ago CDJs were a rarity in that environment. Now they are ubiquitous.

Controllers are just the next step in that evolution of technology.

This is what is commonly known as an "over-generalization".

Go use a few top-tier controllers and come back...

...and this is what the vast majority of people do.


...and this is what they need to do.

It deb ends where you play - edm, pop clubs switched to cdj. A lot of other type clubs thought cdj was the future too, but brought the techs back when when DVS hit. Cdjs across the country collecting dust - depends on the type of venue.

I highly doubt any standard controller emerges anytime soon because the reasons for standards apply much less when it comes to controllers - portability.

Controllers do endanger cdjs tho. There is nothing (besides cd play) that a cdj offers that a controller does not. Cdjs, are very limited in comparison. So the more DJs opting for controllers, the more cdjs are in danger of collecting dust.

But turntables are a little different. In order to get the same functionality in a controller they become much less portable. Less portable does call for a standard, but what kind of rotating platter standard could emerge which is somehow better feeling then the real thing?

People have been predicting the demise of the turntable for decades. And they think Technics ending production is the nail in the coffin. It's not, not anytime soon. Sure the demand fell lower then profitability. Many new DJs, or older DJs switched. But the real problem for continuing was the longevity, there is no expiration date. Every brand new tech in the store had to compete with 20 year old decks on the market. Decks today may last to what, the year 2030, 2040?

Unless something super awesome happens, there is really just no reason to see the turntable go away - thanks to DVS of course. And any conceivable controller function will probably be able to sit right next the turntable.

It's like predicting the end of the steering wheel. We could have all been driving be joystick by now. But ist not ever going to happen - we will see complete automation first.

And thats the same with DJing, the only thing that will ever take the turntable completely out of the picture is complete automation.

if you want the feeling and the functionality of a turntable you can opt for a controller which will still be less portable then a standard which is already in place. If you don't need that functionality - eh

Top tier festivals, a small percentage of the total market, but the biggest names in the industry.
What these guys play on does not go unoticed. As long as the superstar djs and the club got CDJs everyone else wants them. Bedroom djs buy a controller first and then move over to CDJs as long as these guys play on them. Why do you think Serato has their Serato Icon? I can only speak for myself, but I always notice other djs setup. I think others do to.



I agree on this totally. It is inevitable. But all in one "mobile" controllers we se today is not it. But I think MIDI decks is going to be the next thing, I am actually surprised that the CDJs 2000 nexus didnt ditch the CDs.

I just doubt that every djs is gonna rock up to the club with their all in one controller. But I see a few djs using the the X1 than anything else.

Everything has been the 'next evolutionary step' to replace turntables - and everything did not.

Except CDJs did, for a huge percentage of DJs worldwide. So you mean apart from CDJs, right?

No, I don't.

Ok, so you're just wrong then. ;-)

And you could say the same thing if only one DJ switched to CDs right?

Whatever the percentage is - it's obviously not what I'm talking about.

If you want to talk about CD replacing something, cassette might be a better fit.

Pure fantasy.

myopic ^

Myopic because I look at the DJ scene from a global perspective, instead of an insular hip-hop/turntablist one? Sure, if you like.

You can look at it by whatever perspective you want - go ahead and believe 'some' or 'many' is the same as ALL - I don't care.

LOL - like Hip-Hop is niche sold in boutiques and shit - LOL

www.djtechtools.com

You don't say...

The technical 1200 was built too well to continue in an economy built on obsolescence. If it had to be repurchased every couple years it would still be being manufactured. Every brand new deck was on the same market as every 20 year old deck. It's not a sustainable market situation.

It says nothing about the whether or not it will continue to be a standard - because they can be installed for 25 plus years to come without becoming obsolete.

That can not be said about CDJs. The only feature a CDJ offers that a controller can not is playing audio CD. And the CD will go the way of the cassette shortly.

So you're saying that Panasonic should've Sony timer'd the Technics?



...www.worldofstock.com

I don't know what that means.

Unless you mean made them to be replaced every several years. Then yes, if they wanted a sustainable model. Then again if they were made crappy they would have wound up competing with other decks and maybe not been ubuquatis as they are.


I don't see how that's a response to what I said.

Again discontinuing the 1200 does not mean they are not still very widely used. It only means that the demand for new decks leveled off because the market was saturated with 25 years of turntables - most still operational or reparable.

I would also bet that the cost to make decks of comparable quality had probably gone up resulting in less profit. If the price had to be raised buyers had too many used options. That's why resale value stayed high.

Very few consumer goods retain resale value, while sustaining prolonged usability - the result was relatively low scarsety meaning no market for new decks. It is an anomaly.

New users can always pick up used decks in perfect working order.

So in the end - the 1200 being discontinued says little about how long they will continue to be a standard. Could be 20 more years.

And like I said there really is no way for other devices offering the same wanted features to replace it as a standard because of DVS.

Panasonic themselves said:


“Panasonic decided to end production mainly due to a decline in demand for these analog products and also the growing difficulty of procuring key analog components necessary to sustain production,”

So...

1. Despite the digital era making DJing more accessible than ever, they still can't sell enough to bother making them.

2. There aren't enough parts out there to sustain production. If Panasonic can't get the parts, what hope your average venue? And why would they bother when only a small proportion of their DJs even require Techs?

The "Sony Timer" theory is an unsubstantiated claim that Sony builds products which are designed to break and/or fail at-the-time-or-shortly-after it's warranty expires.

www.telegraph.co.uk


You said Controllers couldn't play CDs. Considering that CD drives are on every single computer from 1998 through the majority of 2011 (till Netbooks / Slates hit the market and Apple decided to start omitting them from it's Mac line), this is inherently false. It's also rendered moot by the presence of digital media stored on hard-drives where lossless audio can be placed on a storage medium more reliable than CDs. I call that a step forward. If we're really attacking controllers because they don't have physical CD inputs and play from a more reliable storage medium such as hard drives, solid state drives, and various other flash storage mediums - then frankly, you're living with an archaic mindset in my personal opinion.



Let's be realistic here... Sure a new user could indeed pick up a set of used Decks... but for how long till those from previous generations of DJs snatch them all up and create a market void? More relevant to the fact, sticker shock based on supply and demand (and that's not even accounting for all the maintenance cost to upkeep a turntable, needles, headshells, cables, etc.).

So, what would you expect a new user is likely to buy? A single SL-1210M5G (just to pick one) in good condition for no less than $1,200 because a whole bunch of guys on the internet told him too (we still need to account for deck 2, and a mixer - and that's on the low end of things. We won't even consider the cost of Pioneer devices should they go the CDJ route), or a Numark NS7 (again, just to pick one - though I admittedly lean towards it) in new condition at retail (with warranty from the manufacturer and store) for $1,200 ($400 down from Numark's $1599.99 MSRP)?

Hell, for that matter, should they wish to go the independent devices route, but in terms of controllers, two Numark V7's in New Condition for $400 each plus a mixer of their choice for roughly the same price.

Yeah...



Aside from the fact that this so called "industry standard" idea is nothing more than a personal opinion and not an actuality.



What features?

Hardware Effects? Numark V7 from the Mixer. For that matter, who needs them? iZotope's real-time software effects engine is as good if not better than many hardware effects.

Poor Mixer: Numark NS7, Numark X5, any mixer you throw on in conjunction with the V7... nope, not seeing it.

Poor Platter: NS7, V7, NS6, DDJ, SX... and two of these are motorized that use actual 45rpm vinyls. What's next?

Poorer Sound: Really? So... let me get this straight, a 24-bit output coming straight from the back of an NS7 or NS6 over XLR outputs (BALANCED AUDIO) is a poorer sound than that coming from RCA cables (unbalanced audio from the very source) heading out of a Rane SL, or Traktor Audio device? I don't care if you're using a Pioneer DJM-2000 with gold-plated-ferrite-diamond-top-of-the-line Monster Cables, audio delivered from a DVS is still unbalanced.

I'm not getting your argument here...

Nice to see you're back on your meds akiem.

Yeah this statement is absolutely correct unfortunately it doesn't apply to topic......eh

Maybe you should consider a double dose....;)

the argument is money. its always money in the U.S.

when used decks in good condition were 250-300$ it was a cheaper alternative. 5-600$ when even cheap controllers are 3-500$

now that decks are selling for 3-500$ used is it that much of an alternative? Now 2 are 6-1000? Lots of great controllers in that range.

we've seen that jump in a few years.

how much will techs cost in 10 years with narrowing used parts supplys? 5-800 a piece? now you are getting into cdj territory and the most expensive controllers pricing.

Like I said there are too many on the market because they do not require replacement. They last 25 plus years which translates to low demand (for NEW decks). It says NOTHING about how many are still in use.

What does say something about the actual demand of used decks is the price of a used deck is about 450. Same as what I paid for them used. If there was low demand for used decks they would be cheap as he'll not close to or even more then the original price.

Difficulty finding parts. Like I said the COST to produce the deck (without opting for cheap parts) has increased. So the cost of a new deck can not compete with the price of a perfectly good used deck.

What you quoted is exactly what I have been saying.

there was a point in my region you could get a clean mk5, not mk5g, for around $350 and mk2-3 were 250-350$USD. all these prices have been going up steadily since then. All decks in clubs and venues have been used more, spilled on, dropped, misused and mishandled.

you dont see an exponential rise in price in the next 5-10 years?

i see what you did there

I don't know how often you play on decks that aren't your own, but there are some shit-maintained techs in tons of clubs and venues I've played at locally and around the continent... CDJs have more or less been the standard worldwide for a couple years now - especially places like europe and asia...

Sigh - I was obviously talking about the unit as an individual component. Controllers not being "able" to play CDs is not a limitation, because it's not a needed function. Which speaks to the UNNEEDED feature on a CDJ - the only thing you can do with a CDJ that you can not with a controller. In other words CDJs have no real ADVANTAGE over controllers. In other words you are only making my point.

So you decided to read what I was saying in the opposite. I'm not 'attacking' controllers if you want to call it that - I was talking about the unnecessary feature on a CDJ.

And as far as my "archaic mindset" I replaced my optical drive with an SSD drive YEARS ogo when the first kits came on the market. Not only that, but when I had to replace my optical drive on my old Titanium PowerBook, I theorized and had actually planned on trying to replace my optical drive even before the kit was available.

you can go ahead and characterize me some other way, but I count that as pretty forward thinking.




What do you mean a market void? You mean low supply? That would result in higher prices. There is no 'sticker shock' with supply and demand - the price is the market value. If they are in little demand the price would fall - and the price has not fallen - ever. That means there is still a demand other wise they would be dirt cheap like the rest of our five, ten, twenty year old technology. Most of that shit has a negative value, you have to pay someone to take it.



LOL - just to pick one up because guys on the Internet told him to huh - LOL
No response even required.



so now 1200 will be obsolete because they are overpriced?
LOL
dude - if no one wants them the market value will DROP
Cmon man.




I would call it an "industry opinion" - as in if you ask for "turntables" you are guarantied a pair of 1200s not NS7s -LOL

rotating plater comparable with ANY DVS system. (not to mention the extreme familiarity)



Exactly - you are talking about a specific software not universally used.

That's way the 1200 is still a standard, DVS conforms to the analog standard, not the other way around.

The point of this thread being... that DVS isn't the future anyway.

Serato can see it, even if you can't. Hence, Serato DJ.

Uh, well I played on a pair of decent decks at a club last night. My own the night before, and another set of decent decks in a club last week. I know the decks they have upstairs are kinda of crappy, but so is the rest of the shit they have up there.

I guess it was five years ago I toured Europe and had no problem with very nice decks in every venue.

Conversely I've seen some CDJs that looked horribly shitty because the club set them aside and brouht the turntables back online.

Like I said - if it's primarily EDM and pop shit, of course there will be some CDJs, but there are PLENTY of other type of clubs with perfectly fine 1200s used every single night.

Unless anyone has some statistics.....

Let me know when they discontinue DVS. Because as far as I know they have no plans to.

That was 5 years ago, pre-CDJ2000s.

And in venues of the type that would book a DJ like you...

Pretty sure the topic did not designate a type of music, or type of venue.

And I have not heard of anyone having a problem with decks on a rider being supported unless they are at the wrong type venue.

So - if you want to just believe I'm making shit up, that's fine. But honestly I don't even know a DJ (except online) who uses CDJs anymore. They all switched back to turntables, the ones who tried em.

I have been trying to put my opinions over based purely on trends I see globally, but if you wanna go anecdotal...

I live in Newcastle, one of the UK's most well-known nightlife cities.

The city has a very vibrant 'urban' music culture, with loads of hip-hop & R&B nights.

There are DOZENS of venues, and a good few hundred working DJs to match.

I know of only maybe half-a-dozen DJs who still play on vinyl or DVS with vinyl, including myself. The other guys are all 'nu-disco' beardy types.

Even if I wanted to use vinyl control more, I don't have the option, because out of 5 or 6 venues I play regularly, only 1 has turntables. And they're pretty knackered.

There are perhaps 3 venues in the city with Techs permanently installed. A couple of others have a pair stashed away.

Even Digital, consistently voted one of the UK's top nightclubs, has no Techs permanently installed in any of their 4 booths.

CDJs took over Europe LONG ago my friend.

Actually I forgot a couple of Dubstep/D&B guys, and a couple of deep house jocks.

So maybe a dozen total.

pretty much in my area at the top clubs cdjs and tts are available. but like bob said, most of those decks are not worth even trying most of the time. so i just use the cdjs.

"There are DOZENS of venues"

Whoa!!! Not DOZENS!!!!! lmao!!!!!!

Akiem wanted to play anecdotes. Not me.

Actually outside of London there are very few cities which would warrant a count of more than 'dozens' if you're talking about venues with DJs.

Or, indeed, cities in France. Or Germany. Or Hungary. You know, Europe. The continent I'm talking about.

Oh global trend studies, statistics and shit like that huh - sight you data sources then chap.

As for as anecdotes - my personal experience was being questioned - answered the damn questions.

Unless we a resurgence in vynil ,Records stores opening all over again, ME no thinks 1200 will be comin back. Only people with 1200, will be far and few.. But then again I have been hearing that hybrid vehicles will one day (one=being a long time) be king of the roads.EH
Long live 1200 and the hell with controllers!

I really think this point could be argued over and over again because OPINION will always dominate this discussion. You can't bring technological facts into a discussion about OPINIONS because no matter what the fact is, the OPINION of the user is what matters.

Controllers ARE the future - if we could peer ahead 5 years, controllers will still be manufactured & sold. Some DJ's will still say "fuck controllers, I got my 1200's", some might say "fuck controllers, I got my CDJ's"... but I suspect a lot of CDJ DJs will eventually go to controllers. Even the CDJ's are becoming controllers with USB HID connections and no more timecode. So is a USB HID CD player a controller or a CD player anyways?

Every time I have to I load 2 CD players and a mixer out to a gig, take 5-10 minutes connecting it all up to an SL1.... A couple trips from the car, remembering all the cables.... Just one more thing to consider going "all in one".

So I look at my equipment, some of it 5 years old now. My SL1 - bought in 2009, eventually will fail. I'm going to have to replace it one day. That's $500 right there to replace it.

I ask myself, should I buy a TTM57? Or a Rane62? I use a 57 at one of my gigs I just bring a laptop, and I love the song scrolling and cue points right on the mixer. That's $1400. Not to mention my old CD decks that I'm already wanting to replace (little Denon CD players that have a small platter with touch sensors that don't work well anymore).

But then I say, I watch the Friday night DJ come in with a MixTrack Pro (now supported by Serato DJ+Video), and it can do the same thing, for $250. I already use CD players, now 5 years old, replacement cost of those will be $500-1000. It may not last 5 years, granted, but I could have 2 of them at that price.

The next step as a VALUE proposition for me IS to buy a controller - I will have to replace or repair all my gear piece by piece in the next few years. EVERYONE who is a DJ will have to do this.

For the price of any 1 piece of my gear, I can have a new controller with built in sound card. Maybe not the best but for the price of a TTM57, Rane 62, etc, I can buy the top tier controller - and NOT have to buy a set of new CDJ's or 1200's (if I decided to go back to vinyl again)...

One thing that is for sure keep your Turntables as they will be worth more in 5-10 years. I sold a set of CDJ's and a TTM-57 last week, why well because I wanted to get something now before I would get nothing later. Turntables will hold thier vaule CDJ's will not. DouggyFresh hit it right on the head the controller does more then the cdj and is much cheaper to replace then a cdj. One CDJ would cost more than the DDJ-SX do the math.

Keep your turntables I will but understand this ,,,,,,,,,since they are no longer being produced no matter your opnion Controllers are our future, get over it !

:) I could buy 4 Controllers for the price of a cdj set up with mixer depending on which controller I buy may 10....Funk a cdj at this point. Turntables will be selling for 3 or 4 grand soon.... DONT SELL....

Another factor- the patents for the 1200 expired after 25 years.

Other options are in production.

www.stantondj.com
www.numark.com

Anyone choosing turntables, even 1200s, will have that option until retirement age.

People will always have preferences, just like classic cars are a thing of beauty.. Are people stupid for saying they love one? HELL NO

Your Tesla Roadster is just as cool as someone's Shelby GT from the 60s. Different strokes for different folks.

I'll always prefer turntables. Really, it's a matter of whether or not I feel like carrying them. Having a set up of TT's with traktor X1 to use as a midi is my preference, and again...it's all a matter of whether or not I feel like carrying all of that.

They are not an option as far as im concerned. Never will be.........

One of my biggest dj competition in my area just informed me he's switching to the pio ddjsx.
I thought it would take a few more years for my competition to catch up to new technology. They are the "tech 1200 or cdj1000 only " type of dj........I didnt see this coming so quickly.

Controllers are MY future, get over it!

Maybe a mod can fix that topic for you.

All I want is an "EASY" button......

At last, Akiem sees the light!

LOL ;-)

Ive already been using 'controllers' for years - just not as replacements.

Oh yeah, dont forget what comes next after controllers and sync and shit - the next 'futuristic' step is Complete Automation. And it will arrive exponentially quicker then turntables dying out.

so - if you are all 'happy' about a controller, first software/hardware changes will make it obsolete - then it wont be replaced because of automated systems.

(meanwhile there are likely to still be operational turntables)

Ehh

^^^^^^^^^I see what you tried to do right there.

This thread has nothing to do with us being "'happy' about a controllers".

Maybe not you.... but...

Jukeboxes and computer playlists in bars have been around for many, many years, and in some cases they have replaced DJs. But realistically, DJs (and cover bands for that matter) still have jobs. In fact, jukeboxes are a SOURCE of money for a bar (some bars it makes enough money to pay the rent by itself).

ether that or controllers are the ultimate technological pinacle and civilizations fall shortly after

Ehh

btw, what da hell does that "eh" shit mean AKIEM .....lol

here you go - read about it
serato.com

Man... some high levels of salt are floating around here...

controllers are the ultimate technological pinacle and civilizations fall shortly after
LOL

yeah, but you have to think maybe its for the best that they shoot this dying dog. dj'ing at this point needs to be put down.

used traktors auto play and it was fine, even for playing out, if you set a few cue pts here and there. some mixes were actually really good.

Someone just bought the copy of the "let me clear my throat" 45 (bootleg or something?) that I had already put in my discogs shopping cart. I was gonna buy it tonight. No other copies online. Foiled. It sucks, I was bugging when I saw it was there for sale.

Akiem's 2nd favorite topic, next after serato.com
2013, more of the same? Anyway, HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

I made a video about using Technics DZ-1200 as a controller for Serato.

youtu.be

That's a good video. I had a friend that always swore by their build quality, but admittedly, I bashed him as well. Apparently, I turned out to be the fool. I'm gonna' see if I can find a cheap one to add to the setup. Thanks for the heads up.

To me, a dj is the ultimate artist. We have so many tools at our disposal that we sometimes forget what we are creating. Audible Art. We will create amazing art and sounds with what we have control over. We do not even use our own music most of the time. We just manipulate bits of audio to create what we think is art. This argument is similar to someone who uses an 8.0mp digital camera and photoshop to create their art, versus another using a 30 year-old minolta to develop pictures in the darkroom. Such is the comparison of a digital controller to turntables and a separate mixer. It is more the person that the product. All the bells, whistles, and buttons are all just that. There are so many more ways to be creative with your mixes in just the past 5-6 years, versus that past 20-25 years. Whenever some new technology comes to surface, it is for our advantage, not everyone has to jump on the bandwagon. A dj that can utilize any piece of equipment to their advantage is a good dj. Technics are forever going to be a part of DJ culture. I own a recently developed digital controller, but I still cannot stand to mix on it. I use my 1200's and rotary mixer 99.99% of the time. It is common for many old school djs/purists to still accept digital vinyl systems or even cds! Does this make them bad djs? Not at all. Serato is one of the best things ever created for me personally. I say let the artist do and be. I am also a believer that every dj should at least know how to mix or blend on vinyl. (Preferably without catching "serato face.")

You bet. Glad you liked to the video. If you get one it would be cool for you to share your opinion if you liked it or not. Make sure to update the firmware to 2.3 if you do decide to get one.

Wake up, sheeple!

Watchwww.youtube.com

Serato is a program that turns your turntables into the most expensive mouse ever made.

....another good video!

Loved the Ninja cut. When in doubt... Ask A ninja!

The attack on the DZ was a proxy attack on the SL by syncers.

Slightly off topic, but that ninja video was posted by senseihaus on youtube and I tried to order some vinyl discs for my SL-DZ1200 from senseihaus's website and he didn't respond and didn't ship me my vinyl discs. Just a warning not to order anything from the senseihaus website.

bookmarking this thread for the next time I need motivation to prepare for a battle... I hate DJs so much, sigh...

Here we go again...

o pdidy you are drunk go to bed.... and your name is pdidy lol

BETAMAX is our future!!

I said it a loonnnnnggg time ago SSL version 3.0

Ha ha

The ddj-sx is becoming very popular in my in my area (NYC). Alot of new djs and bars including some respected djs (2 to be exact ;) who use 1200's/cdj's are using it now. Im most surprised by the 2 djs who work at my level.

^ don't you use a vci 300 for some gigs?

yes, since 2008....

^^ time to upgrade that too ;)

yea I agree, just put it on graigslist a few days ago....lol

i upgraded to the 380 - it's alright - better than the 300 although there were a few things on the 300 i actually liked better.

Been using it with DJ and it's much better than itch, but again, there are a few things I actually preferred on Itch which bugs me.

Still would rather be on turntables tho...

But to be honest, its a want (ddjsx) not a need. The VCI300 does everything I need it to do. I just need the basics like cues, sampler and 2 responsive decks and im happy.....I really dont NEED all the extra features the ddjsx has nor will I probably use them after a few weeks and the new controller smell wears off. That being said, I still want it (ddjsx) but love the VCI300's simplicity.

for example, I can dj on the vci300 totally wasted. This would be a bigger challenge on a controller with knobs and crazy buttons everywhere.......lol

I am getting my ddjsx soon, can't wait!

You'll be able to spin on the sx totally shitfaced too, dont worry about that part. After a few days, it's second nature.

True,,,, after that last firmware it's pretty soild now. Being that I am not a DMC champ it does more than I need. The four Decks don't think I will use them much... I only use them to show off the SX and I must say it's fun doing so.

I thought that the Terminators were our future.

It's Peteslist not Gregslist.

nm

The VCI380 was a great upgrade to the VCI300. Now having tried SDJ on Both DDJSX and VCI380, SDJ is better suited for the DDJSX as in the layout of everything.
I will still keep the VCI380 though :)

I've been using an LPD8 with my VCI380 which helps, but I really wish there was midi out...

Fact is that the cntroller marketnits growing ,,, i like them and yes might be the future ,, but i still prefer CDJs

Funny, I used to say, I'm sticking with Turntables when the CD players came out. 6 months later my gears were cd player, rack mount cd players, CDJs and now on controllers LOL.

I'm all for technology advances while retaining experiences in old school mixing tools and techniques.